S11.E16: Acts of God

[nodorothyparker]

Streaming on AMC+. Enter at your own risk for spoilers before the scheduled airdate.

Airdate 04.10.22

Quote

Maggie prepares to defend Hilltop and the people of Riverbend against Hornsby.

 

[OoohMaggie]

Well that was a bit of an anticlimax, I wonder if they’re claiming the coin toss was a cliffhanger 🤔.

It seems Maggie is finally cool with Negan, I can’t wait for the inevitable bonding in the final third 🥺
The revolution is underway, let’s hope suitable amounts of chaos and carnage ensue, some regulars have got to die surely.

After twelve years they’re still coming up with laughable nonsense like the ‘abandoned cars’ scene, if you want to kill three people that’s the way to do it.

A bit meh but I suppose the ducks have been put in a row for the final run in, obviously they’re saving the best to the very last 🙏🙏

Edited April 3, 2022 by OoohMaggie

[Mr. Sparkle]

On 4/3/2022 at 10:07 AM, OoohMaggie said:

obviously they’re saving the best to the very last

Your optimism is so heart warming on this chilly morning. 

[OoohMaggie]

2 hours ago, Superclam said:

Your optimism is so heart warming on this chilly morning. 

What else have we got left? 🤔

Having given it another watch on a big screen where I could actually see the dark bits, I feel “anticlimax” and “meh” were harsh, it was just lacking in mid season finale-ness. Maybe so much Maggie action is going to my head, I feel for those that can’t stand her 🤕

Edited April 3, 2022 by OoohMaggie

[Mr. Sparkle]

That was a little dull, except at the end, where it picked up. I'm thrilled to see Leah finally gone. Boring character, lousy actress. Oceanside should just be called "RedShirt Town." Will some of them die? Probably. Will I care? Not at all. 

[maystone]

I have to admit that a good part of the time I couldn't figure out what was going on. I felt as if there were a couple of scenes missing.

How did Maggie's group (four three people can constitute a group, right?) know where Negan's group was hiding?

How did Lance know that Maggie and Leah were enemies? And were the Men in Black a group that Leah had formed or were they on loan from Lance? That wasn't clear to me. I'm guessing they were on loan, and Leah deliberately killed them by triggering the explosion?  Because . . . why?

How did Daryl&Aaron&Gabe know that Lance's guys were going to kill them? And when the hell did Lance go all Two-Face, flipping a coin for, presumably, life-or-death decisions?

What the hell was in the file that Max stole? Hundreds of people are missing? hiding? in debt? I'm very confused about a plot point that is looking to be a linchpin for the final third of the finale.

I thought that abandoning Hilltop was the right decision. Maggie hung on there way too long. Hopefully this means we get Diane back when the revolution comes to the Commonwealth. I like Diane.

I also like badass Gabe.

Please don't mass murder Oceanside. The execution of bound and defenseless civilians is too close to the atrocities in Ukraine. I know these episodes were written and filmed long, long before current events. No blame from me. Just hoping the coin toss lands the right way.

I'm definitely going to have to watch this again, because I simply must have missed a bunch of clues or quick explanations.

[Mr. Sparkle]

1 hour ago, maystone said:

I'm definitely going to have to watch this again, because I simply must have missed a bunch of clues or quick explanations.

I'm also a little confused. Like how Daryl, Aaron & Gabe went from helping to shooting in a second. Also, most of the stuff you mentioned. 

[heisenberg]

3 hours ago, maystone said:

I have to admit that a good part of the time I couldn't figure out what was going on. I felt as if there were a couple of scenes missing.

How did Maggie's group (four three people can constitute a group, right?) know where Negan's group was hiding?

How did Lance know that Maggie and Leah were enemies? And were the Men in Black a group that Leah had formed or were they on loan from Lance? That wasn't clear to me. I'm guessing they were on loan, and Leah deliberately killed them by triggering the explosion?  Because . . . why?

How did Daryl&Aaron&Gabe know that Lance's guys were going to kill them? And when the hell did Lance go all Two-Face, flipping a coin for, presumably, life-or-death decisions?

What the hell was in the file that Max stole? Hundreds of people are missing? hiding? in debt? I'm very confused about a plot point that is looking to be a linchpin for the final third of the finale.

Are you a Writer or a producer? 
So shut-up!😂😅

It is a joke.  All your questions are acurate...  But we will never know because they never thought about it in the first place.

Everybody are walking in the woods at night and find each other easily,  I just go 100 feet deep past the back of my yard and I'm lost!

[OoohMaggie]

The MIB were some of Lance’s troopers who were chosen by coin toss.

Daryl fired the first shot but they were both planning to kill each other, the bald guy saying they were “clearing the field” before dying. They both chose the worst place to do so despite both having the perfect opportunity beforehand, they rather turned it into the OK Coral. 

One of the MIB set off the booby trap not Leah.

It was Lydia who knew where Negan was, didn’t she she stay with the Riverbenders after the big fight?

Dianne might just be one of the not quite popular enough regulars to die in P3, I like her as well but they’ve got to start dropping soon.

Apparently he didn’t know about Leah and Maggie, he just offered her a job because of the way she killed his men and stole the guns, as you do.

Interestingly this is the coin old sourpuss was flipping.

Edited April 4, 2022 by OoohMaggie

[Mr. Sparkle]

So they went with a full revision to history? Interesting. I guess Pamela is the daughter of President Milton? 

[heisenberg]

And his wife... "M" illary?🤔

[raven]

On 4/3/2022 at 7:07 PM, maystone said:

How did Maggie's group (four three people can constitute a group, right?) know where Negan's group was hiding?

Maggie helped hide them after leaving the apartment complex (we don't see this, but they were working together against Lance's group and Maggie says they have to help them).  Lydia knew about the hole in the ground - Negan called it a "whisperer's hole" .  My guess is they were at Hilltop and Maggie cleared them out and hid them before Lance did his inspection.

On 4/3/2022 at 7:07 PM, maystone said:

How did Lance know that Maggie and Leah were enemies? And were the Men in Black a group that Leah had formed or were they on loan from Lance? That wasn't clear to me. I'm guessing they were on loan, and Leah deliberately killed them by triggering the explosion?  Because . . . why?

I think maybe Lance was just fortunate there about them being enemies?  I thought maybe the MiB were his guys - maybe some of them wear that under their "armor"?   Leah sent the expendable group in - she was expecting a trap and wanted to flush out Maggie's people; she figured they would be hiding and watching.  Speaking of which, just because the booby trap went off, doesn't mean you all STAND STRAIGHT UP IN THE OPEN, Maggie!  It was just a matter of who was getting the bullet then (RIP, Marco).

On 4/3/2022 at 7:07 PM, maystone said:

How did Daryl&Aaron&Gabe know that Lance's guys were going to kill them? And when the hell did Lance go all Two-Face, flipping a coin for, presumably, life-or-death decisions?

Super telepathy!!  LOL.  I thought it was incredibly dumb of the stormtroopers (living up to their history of being terrible shots) to try to take them out in the junkyard where there was plenty of cover for an experienced trio like ours.   Lance flips the coin because it's dramatic for us viewers :D

On 4/3/2022 at 7:07 PM, maystone said:

What the hell was in the file that Max stole? Hundreds of people are missing? hiding? in debt? I'm very confused about a plot point that is looking to be a linchpin for the final third of the finale.

I have no idea.  I cannot follow this particular plot line.  The group of Commonwealth revolutionaries are stirring things up because why?? Because Commonwealth has a hierarchy?  I have no idea what's going on there, other than laughing at Eugene telling this Stephanie essentially the same thing he told the prior Stephanie about how he's never felt this way before or whatever.

I wanted Maggie to kill Leah but I guess the show had Daryl do it so that Maggie can reflect on revenge and how damaging it is, blah blah, and move on from Negan sadistically killing her husband.

[OoohMaggie]

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by OoohMaggie

[GustavMahler]

Well the good will I was starting to regain for this show is slowly ebbing away. Everything was so damn predictable such as arrow boy standing up so Leah can off him. Of course Leah could not just kill Maggie, as we so needed that expected sexless ménage à trois with Daryl. And to put the icing on this shit cake, Lance receives a wound on his cheek to help him get more into his Two Face coin flipping mood....and of course, my only thought is will they actually kill off some of these established characters, or do the showrunners want to save them in case sequels might be considered?

[Morrigan2575]

I've really enjoyed this middle run of episodes. This one wasn't, as good as the rest but, it get props for an excellent/all out fight scene and Leah getting killed.  I'm hoping Carol gets to kill Lance in the finale.

I'm guessing the Commonwealth portion of the story was necessary to set up the back 1/3 of episodes but, honestly I didn't care. 

 

[KeithJ]

What was the point of the swarm of bugs?

[OoohMaggie]

16 minutes ago, KeithJ said:

What was the point of the swarm of bugs?

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: So… why locusts?

 

ANGELA KANG: This was a pitch that came out of the writers' room. And I thought that it was interesting because it kind of dealt with some of the things that we've been talking about a lot, which is that walkers are obviously a problem and people are a problem, but it's not only that. The entire world is a problem for our people.

There are so many things that we have in place in civilization now that allows us to kind of take certain things for granted, such as when a giant storm comes through, or if a fire rips through a community, or, in this case, a locust swarm — which is a thing that happens at various times around the world. These are all things that can destroy your shelter, your food, and cause all kinds of problems in the short term.

For our people, they've been knocked back over and over again. And here's just one more thing that is almost proof of how horrific it is to try to live out there in the world when everything's falling apart. And so that was one of the things that we thought was interesting from an environmental obstacle standpoint. But it also felt like there's something sort of operatic about Leah's rage, trying to come after them after all this time. And so we thought that it felt like it worked well with her particular story as well.

https://ew.com/tv/walking-dead-midseason-finale-acts-of-god-angela-kang/

[theredhead77]

The swarm didn't seem to do anything but add background noise. No one was swatting them away, I didn't even hear comments about the locusts destroying what crops are left. I hope I don't have to remember the swarm when the final group of episodes airs. 

[KeithJ]

1 hour ago, theredhead77 said:

The swarm didn't seem to do anything but add background noise. No one was swatting them away, I didn't even hear comments about the locusts destroying what crops are left. I hope I don't have to remember the swarm when the final group of episodes airs. 

This is why it was so odd to just throw it in.  If it actually had an effect on the story, great.  But, for now, there is no reason for them.

[CrazyDog]

It does seem like they just threw in some biblical elements for no real reason, like the locusts and the snake. 

I enjoyed the episode, but I agree with all the missed questions above. I don't really understand what was in the folder. And what is the plan when this 50K community starts revolting?

I'm embarrassed to ask, but did I miss why Leah's group was after Maggie to begin with?

I know a lot of people want the show over but I think one more normal length season might have helped. The Commonwealth is interesting and a season to let it all unfold would feel a lot less rushed. Lance vs. Carol would be fun.

[TWOPrefugee]

On 4/4/2022 at 11:09 AM, Superclam said:

So they went with a full revision to history? Interesting. I guess Pamela is the daughter of President Milton? 

Must have been a complete revision including the 60's & 70's because there would have been no way our world would have elected a bearded president in that era.

[iMonrey]

So there's a Marco? Oh, not anymore I guess. But seriously. Where did he come from?

Quote

I wanted Maggie to kill Leah but I guess the show had Daryl do it so that Maggie can reflect on revenge and how damaging it is, blah blah, and move on from Negan sadistically killing her husband.

Ugh. I will never not get stabby over this so-called "redemption" of Negan. I don't care if it's the zombie apocalypse, I don't care if he has regrets, I don't care if he's a "changed man," I don't care if he's got a pregnant wife. He did what did, period. I can see Maggie maybe getting to a point where she isn't going to kill him anymore but leaving her son with him? C'mon now.

[theredhead77]

On 4/5/2022 at 9:28 AM, OoohMaggie said:

 

 

3 hours ago, TWOPrefugee said:

Must have been a complete revision including the 60's & 70's because there would have been no way our world would have elected a bearded president in that era.

It is established that this world had tools to make horse shoes and iron work. It's possible The Commonwealth made a coin or two with "President Milton" on it for show without revising actual US history. Unlikely, but possible.

[Nashville]

37 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

 

It is established that this world had tools to make horse shoes and iron work. It's possible The Commonwealth made a coin or two with "President Milton" on it for show without revising actual US history. Unlikely, but possible.

Dated 1982?

[rmontro]

On 4/3/2022 at 7:07 PM, maystone said:

when the hell did Lance go all Two-Face, flipping a coin for, presumably, life-or-death decisions?

I seriously was expecting the other half of the coin to be scarred.  And Lance with the scarred face too, that was bizarre.  Somebody likes Batman.

Not sure what the point of the serpent shot was.  I guess it had something to do with Gabriel, but the snake is supposed to represent the devil.  Maybe the snake was supposed to represent the guy Gabriel was attacking?

I'm amazed at what little emotion Daryl showed over killing Leah.  He must have really emotionally checked out of that relationship after their last encounter.

The locusts were pointless.  Maggie finally warms up to Negan.  Thankfully, only one more leg of this show to get through.  Except there are all these spinoffs coming up.  I'll have to figure out which, if any, I'm going to watch.  

[madmax]

For a mid-season finale, it was kinda  blah.

Were there still people at  Hilltop?  Or was Maggie and her ragtag gang all that was left?

I would have liked a convo between Leah and Daryl before he killed her.  

I read that the series finale would have been different had there not been a bunch of spin-offs planned.  Would like to see what would have been.

[econ07]

1 hour ago, madmax said:

Were there still people at  Hilltop?  Or was Maggie and her ragtag gang all that was left?

I couldn't tell if Maggie took a core group from Hilltop and left the rest behind, or if her core group was all that was left, or if a larger group all left Hilltop.  These writers are not very skilled at moving the chess pieces around for the view.

I also don't understand the incentive to conquer two TINY communities a couple of states away, unless Lance is just hellbent on having his own little kingdom.  It seems like it would be a huge drain on resources and attention.

[rmontro]

28 minutes ago, econ07 said:

I couldn't tell if Maggie took a core group from Hilltop and left the rest behind, or if her core group was all that was left, or if a larger group all left Hilltop.  These writers are not very skilled at moving the chess pieces around for the view.

I also don't understand the incentive to conquer two TINY communities a couple of states away, unless Lance is just hellbent on having his own little kingdom.  It seems like it would be a huge drain on resources and attention.

I guess all those people being rounded up at the end were Maggie's versions of redshirts.  "Sorry, you folk aren't worth trying to save".

Lance's storyline is just painfully stupid to watch.  But I guess his game is to be proven faithful in small things, so that he will be put in charge of large things.  Only thing is, he's such a snake, he doesn't seem like he'd be happy unless he was running the whole show.  Governor Pamela should watch out for him, although it looks like she will have her hands full elsewhere.  

[Iguessnot]

2 hours ago, rmontro said:

 

I'm amazed at what little emotion Daryl showed over killing Leah.  He must have really emotionally checked out of that relationship after their last encounter.

 

My guess is that Norman Reedus was incapable of a proper performance, so they just let him do a drive by and close that chapter.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Iguessnot

[Starchild]

Red, black and white banners are cultural shorthand for evil governments. If we'd seen that flag at the beginning of all this, we'd have known all we needed to.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Just now, Starchild said:

Red, black and white banners are cultural shorthand for evil governments. If we'd seen that flag at the beginning of all this, we'd have known all we needed to.

Yes, this show is not known for its subtlety. 

[rmontro]

3 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

My guess is that Norman Reedus was incapable of a proper performance, so they just let him do a drive by and close that chapter.

Well, I guess in the end Daryl cared about as much as we did  😀

[heisenberg]

2 hours ago, Starchild said:

Red, black and white banners are cultural shorthand for evil governments. If we'd seen that flag at the beginning of all this, we'd have known all we needed to.

[Meraji]

9 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

 

It is established that this world had tools to make horse shoes and iron work. It's possible The Commonwealth made a coin or two with "President Milton" on it for show without revising actual US history. Unlikely, but possible.

Yeah, I just assumed the Commonweath made these, mainly because it says "the walking dead" in Latin on the back under the buffalo. The 1982 is a puzzler, though. I suppose it could be a significant year and not when it was minted?

[SharonH58]

IMO another boring episode that was in no way a 'finale' level.   I am as confused as everyone else.   The 'dramatic tension' when the brat kid came in wasn't.   How is he supposed to know what the folder is about and could Max/Stephanie have made it more obvious that she was hiding it.    I won't mention her and Eugene 🤢   Why is he still alive??   All these years the Commonwealth appeared to be doing okay until our group shows  up.   I think they drive people crazy.  😉   With all the plot armour people are wearing nothing is suspenseful.

[DavidWeis1]

14 hours ago, econ07 said:

I also don't understand the incentive to conquer two TINY communities a couple of states away, unless Lance is just hellbent on having his own little kingdom.  It seems like it would be a huge drain on resources and attention.

My bigger issue (complaint) as I’ve said all along is I wish there was a map that showed me where all the key points are. Sometimes people make these walks as if it’s nothing, but sometimes it’s like a chore. 

[rmontro]

14 hours ago, Meraji said:

Yeah, I just assumed the Commonweath made these, mainly because it says "the walking dead" in Latin on the back under the buffalo. The 1982 is a puzzler, though. I suppose it could be a significant year and not when it was minted?

That is odd, more like an Easter egg than an actual coin.  Also strange because the Commonwealth has supposedly been using, or at least honoring, regular pre- apocalypse money (one of the more far fetched notions I've seen).  Why can't someone just go around to different banks, bring in a bunch of money and watch the hyperinflation grow?   

 

8 hours ago, DavidWeis1 said:

My bigger issue (complaint) as I’ve said all along is I wish there was a map that showed me where all the key points are. Sometimes people make these walks as if it’s nothing, but sometimes it’s like a chore. 

That would be a very handy, and informative thing to have.  I'm guessing they don't have one because it would just be used to criticize the show for their its illogical use of distances.

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, rmontro said:

That would be a very handy, and informative thing to have.  I'm guessing they don't have one because it would just be used to criticize the show for their its illogical use of distances.

Probably a good guess, I’d say; this writer’s crew has always shown a marked propensity to let maps get away from them PDQ.

[heisenberg]

6 hours ago, rmontro said:

That would be a very handy, and informative thing to have.  I'm guessing they don't have one because it would just be used to criticize the show for their its illogical use of distances.

Especialy when everybody gets to meet in the woods in the middle of the night...

[tennisgurl]

I can, through gritted teeth, deal with the "redemption" of Negan, and even the idea that Maggie could work with him for the greater good, but I just cannot deal with the idea of Maggie leaving her son with him. I just cannot. This shows love of Negan has always been a major problem, but its really starting to get ridiculous. Just because the show has decided that Negan is totally awesome now doesn't mean that the characters who suffered because of him should also decide he's totally awesome. 

Other than that, I did actually like this episode, even if all of the forced religious imagery with the locusts and snakes felt pretty lame. We had some cool fights, characters that I like actually doing things, and Leah is finally dead. Low rent Two Face is at least a more interesting antagonist. I actually feel bad that this is when the show is ending, when things are finally picking up. The Commonwealth is the most interesting antagonist the show has had in ages and things finally feel like they're moving forward instead of hitting the same beats over and over. The Commonwealth stuff isn't perfect, I wish it had been a bit more like Alexandria, where they weren't evil just not as great a place as they seemed, instead of the leaders having evil secrets and a bunch of half assed class warfare, but at least its something different, they do seem like a real threat, unlike morons like The Whisperers. 

Poor Oceanside, they can never catch a break.

Edited April 18, 2022 by tennisgurl

[Fwsiii]

Did anyone else notice Gabriel looking through the scope of the gun with his blind eye?

[Nakedcity]

Thought I’d read up on what the new episodes were about and get people different opinions. I haven’t had a desire to watch the show sense they knocked off Glenn from the beginning of season seven, It is what it is. What is Oceanside? Hilltop and commonwealth?  

[millennium]

There's little to differentiate this episode or this show from the meaningless spinoff previews they show ad nauseum on commercial breaks (meaningless to me because I don't watch those shows  -- in fact, I think I would feel very sorry for myself if I did; the fact that I still watch the mother ship already takes a heavy toll on my self-respect).   They all look the same with ginned-up threats that never quite live up to the hype.   It baffles me how AMC still makes money off this franchise or is planning further spinoffs.  

That said, Leah's death by Reedus wasn't very dramatic.   Those two have history.   Was that the cabin?  There should have been more.  Did the writers whiff and say "Fuck it, let's just get it over with."

Edited April 21, 2022 by millennium

[Iguessnot]

3 hours ago, millennium said:

 

That said, Leah's death by Reedus wasn't very dramatic.   Those two have history.   Was that the cabin?  There should have been more.  Did the writers whiff and say "Fuck it, let's just get it over with."

As I mentioned earlier, I don't think Reedus was capable of doing what the writers had hoped for, so they had to ignore their relationship. There is no way they didn't want that to be a poignant scene, especially for all the money they are paying Reedus.

For all his popularity, Reedus only shines when combined with strong character actors such as Merle, Rick and Carol. Put him with a weak character actor such as Beth, and he sinks too, unable to bring any magic to the scenes. The actress who played Leah is strong, but Reedus really showed no growth in his character. That last scene should have been about betrayal, loss, regret, etc. between Leah and Daryl. He ended up being nothing more than a random bystander delivering a convenient shot.

Compare him to Eugene who has been saddled with the most cartoonish speech pattern, yet constantly delivers emotionally charged scenes with aplomb. 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Iguessnot

[millennium]

19 minutes ago, Iguessnot said:

As I mentioned earlier, I don't think Reedus was capable of doing what the writers had hoped for, so they had to ignore their relationship. There is no way they didn't want that to be a poignant scene, especially for all the money they are paying Reedus.

For all his popularity, Reedus only shines when combined with strong character actors such as Merle, Rick and Carol. Put him with a weak character actor such as Beth, and he sinks too, unable to bring any magic to the scenes. The actress who played Leah is strong, but Reedus really showed no growth in his character. That last scene should have been about betrayal, loss, regret, etc. between Leah and Daryl. He ended up being nothing more than a random bystander delivering a convenient shot.

Compare him to Eugene who has been saddled with the most cartoonish speech pattern, yet constantly delivers emotionally charged scenes with aplomb. 

 

A scene similar to the one you described is what the situation deserved, and would have been worthy of a mid-semi-pseudo-half-season-series-finale or whatever this was.   Reedus is a one-note actor, which was fine when more versatile players dominated the screen.  But the show now ... it's like being promised a dinner and served nothing but sides.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Full agree on Reedus. I like him personally (he's great with the fans) and I do like the "action star" aspect of Daryl, but there's no range there at all. I noticed in his first scene at Camp Dinner Bell that he was wooden, and he hasn't improved much. 

I really don't think Melissa McBride is much better. I've noticed they're not talking about the Carol/Daryl show now that Negan Loves Maggie has been announced. 

[CletusMusashi]

You know you can tell if you're having a cool gunfight? Even the animals don't want to hide out and miss it.

If there's like a random snake coming out into the open just to apparently watch the scene, then you're probably doing good.

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by CletusMusashi