S02.E08: The Viscount Who Loved Me

[peachmangosteen]

I watched the first 2 eps of this season the day it was released but I found them super boring so I went back to my 9-1-1 binge. I wasn't sure if I was even going to continue with this season but I had nothing else I really wanted to binge so I was like guess I'll give it another go.

I wanted to like Kate and Anthony. That type of shit is my bread-and-butter. But they just didn't work for me. The chemistry felt so forced and the Kate character mostly sucked imo. I also thought the actress was not great. Such a shame.

I actually liked Edwina more than Kate so I'm hoping she will get a love story next season.

[Haleth]

Ok, I finally finished the show and have a lot of reading of this thread to catch up on. I loved this season. The leads were appealing (although somewhat frustrating) and the romance was dreamy.  Every episode was a feast for the eyes. Just beautiful. A couple comments before I finish reading:

It was amusing that Lady F tricked Cousin Jack and got him out of their lives, but I don’t like that she kept the stolen money.

The Cowper (?) girl whose name I can’t remember has been out for 2 seasons now and still hasn’t nabbed a husband.  Bless her heart.

I’m on Team Pen. Eloise was behaving like a selfish brat for most of the season. If she didn’t hear Pen it was because she was too busy whining about her own terrible life.

The Queen is awesome. As is Newton. MVPs of the season. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Haleth

[parrotfeathers]

On 3/26/2022 at 10:08 PM, Atlanta said:

 

I don't get why screen writers want to destroy the source material. This is happening with the current season of Outlander. The source material will always be better to work with and not deviate. 

 

I very much agree.   I thought Season 2 was pretty much awful.  

[Scarlett45]

On 3/27/2022 at 8:44 AM, shapeshifter said:

The highlight for me was when Anthony addressed Kate by her given name: Kathani Sharma.

Me too! I swooned❤️

 

On 3/28/2022 at 7:25 AM, Gillian Rosh said:

I can’t believe this show made me cry! Mary and Kate’s scene was so lovely. I was tearing up throughout. Also teared up when Violet came to tell Anthony that Kate was awake. He looked like he was about to break but was still trying to hold himself together because…that’s what he does; it’s what he’s supposed to do.

I cried during that scene with Kate and Lady Mary too. 

[Scarlett45]

On 4/2/2022 at 8:12 AM, Enero said:

I loved her undergarments even if they were historically inaccurate. Lol. I will say I was shocked to see Kate in the library at Aubrey Hall in nothing more than a nightgown in a house that wasn’t “home” and I’m assuming full of visitors who were there for the Hearts and Flowers Ball. Granted it was in the middle of the night but still who knows whom she could’ve run into while moving about the house and she did of course encounter Anthony.

I also found it strange that she didn’t have any gentlemen callers, except the one guy whom she took the boat ride with. She is stunning. Men should’ve been falling all over themselves to court her. But I’m guessing her age, prickly reputation, and perhaps even her family heritage (her father not being an aristocrat) is why she didn’t get much action on that front.

I loved her lilac undergarments as well. I said the same thing to my Mom, “not historically accurate, but I want it!”  
 

Yes Kate is absolutely gorgeous- but it was known she wasn’t of landed gentry, had no dowry, was 26; if she had expressed a strong interest in marrying I don’t doubt a younger son from a wealthy family (who didn’t need a dowry and had more freedom) may have been interested in marrying her (or a younger widower looking for a second wife), but it was known she intended to be a governess and return to India.  

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes Kate is absolutely gorgeous- but it was known she wasn’t of landed gentry, had no dowry, was 26; if she had expressed a strong interest in marrying I don’t doubt a younger son from a wealthy family (who didn’t need a dowry and had more freedom) may have been interested in marrying her (or a younger widower looking for a second wife), but it was known she intended to be a governess and return to India.

Definitely a modern Cinderella story, but they played down Kate’s shortcomings as a potential marriage match in a feminist twist on the genre. 
IDK whether the Bridgerton source material is similarly Cinderella themed? 
——asked as a semi-rhetorical question as I  neither want to violate the no-book-discussion policy for this thread, nor do I intend to read the books. So just a yes or no question for here.

 

 

Separate question:   
Was anyone else bugged by Kate wearing gloves in every scene that showed her hands touching Anthony? 
It took me out of the scenes wondering if it was possibly because the gorgeously statuesque (5ft 10in) Simone Ashley has large hands. Did Daphne always wear gloves too?

[Enero]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Separate question:   
Was anyone else bugged by Kate wearing gloves in every scene that showed her hands touching Anthony? 
It took me out of the scenes wondering if it was possibly because the gorgeously statuesque (5ft 10in) Simone Ashley has large hands. Did Daphne always wear gloves too?

Actually she wasn’t wearing gloves in every scene she and Anthony touched. In the bee sting scene she had on no gloves when she brought his hand to her chest and her hand to his chest. The hunting lesson, no gloves were on Kate when Anthony so sexily slid his hands over hers. She had on no gloves when Anthony caressed her hand while she wore the betrothal ring and when he helped her out of the boat at the Promenade. The gloves came off when they made love and she was shown touching his lips and face bare handed. And the scene where they were in bed after marrying she had on no gloves while they rolled around in bed and she touched his chest and neck area. The rest of the time they touched and she had on gloves it was due to the occasion and I’m guessing was the appropriate attire for the event ie the wedding, the balls where they danced, I think she may have had on gloves when they played Pall Mall too, but that was likely a personal preference by Kate. Most of the scenes where they had intimate contact she had on no gloves.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Enero

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Separate question:   
Was anyone else bugged by Kate wearing gloves in every scene that showed her hands touching Anthony? 
It took me out of the scenes wondering if it was possibly because the gorgeously statuesque (5ft 10in) Simone Ashley has large hands. Did Daphne always wear gloves too?

I’m assuming the gloves were a costuming choice- she wore them when they were occasion appropriate and they were also symbolic, that extra layer of fabric between her and Anthony in certain scenes as @Enero stated above. 
 

I don’t think it had anything to do with the size of Simone’s hands. I personally LOVE evening gloves, and when they are removed it makes for kind of an erotic scene no? So modest yet so sensual. 
 

Daphne did wear gloves, you probably noticed Kate’s gloves more because there was more of a contast between her glove color and her dress & skin color. Daphne wore white or pale pink gloves a lot.

[Llywela]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Definitely a modern Cinderella story, but they played down Kate’s shortcomings as a potential marriage match in a feminist twist on the genre. 
IDK whether the Bridgerton source material is similarly Cinderella themed? 
——asked as a semi-rhetorical question as I  neither want to violate the no-book-discussion policy for this thread, nor do I intend to read the books. So just a yes or no question for here.

As I recall, this particular book is more Pride and Prejudice themed. One of the other books is more overtly based on the Cinderella story. 

And yes, most women in this era would have worn gloves. 

[WatchrTina]

On 3/27/2022 at 11:45 AM, SonofaBiscuit said:

Thanks a lot show, I have had Miley Cyrus’ “Wrecking Ball” in my head for two days now.

Ooooh can I piggyback on this comment to say that the show's use of modern pop songs -- rewritten for an 19th century orchestra -- is one of my FAVORITE aspects of the show.  I love trying to figure out the source song.

Edited April 17, 2022 by WatchrTina

[Enero]

3 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Ooooh can I piggyback on this comment to say that the show's use of modern pop songs -- rewritten for an 19th century orchestra -- is one of my FAVORITE aspects of the show.  I love trying to figure out the source song.

Speaking of the music on the show, though I enjoy hearing the pop hits that have been turned into 19th century classical pieces, I also like some of the original music too. I like the song Edwina and Anthony first dances too, which also played during the museum scene, the music played as Anthony sat in his office alone working just before he learned of the soirée at the Danbury house and the music played during the scenes after Kate and Anthony made love and the subsequent race through the park in rain where she was eventually thrown from the horse. I was pleasantly surprised to learn that the composer of the original music for Bridgerton is a 30 year old African-American young man from Los Angeles - Kris Bowers. 

[bijoux]

I have to add the final piece from the season. It's just so wonderful, sunshine and promise in the form of lyrics. Just perfect for the scene.

[LilJen]

On 4/1/2022 at 4:26 PM, tennisgurl said:

My thoughts, before reading all of the comments...

I loved this season, I thought that it was even better than season one, which I also really liked. As much as I liked Daphne/Simon, I thought that Anthony/Kate were even better, I love a slow burn, what can I say. I really loved watching them smolder all over each other and you could really see their connection building, they actually have a ton in common. Both of them have totally devoted themselves to their families, helping their widowed mother and younger siblings, to martyr levels of devotion, and have totally given up on finding any personal happiness. It has made both of them very responsible, which their siblings appreciate, but has also led to their siblings resenting them to an extent for being so controlling, and feeling bad that they had to take on so much. It doesn't hurt that Jonathan Bailey and Simone Ashley are both not only excellent actors who can really sell that high romance dialogue, but are also super beautiful with massive amounts of chemistry. They really do spark in every scene, their chemistry is so hot that I spent half a season fanning myself, and they didn't have sex until the tail end of the season!

We didn't see a lot of Mary, but every scene with her is an absolute killer. I got a bit teary when she told Kate how she never needed to "earn" her place in the family because they weren't biologically related, Mary loved her no matter what, it was just such a great moment, you can tell that Kate really needed that. I am also glad that Edwina and Kate made up, even if it took Kate falling off a horse and getting a head injury to make Edwina realize her sister was more important than still being mad. I hope that the match between Edwina and the Prince goes through, they're both quite sweet, they would probably be a really good match. Plus the horrified expressions on the Cowper's face's at the wedding would be hilarious. 

A lot of nice Bridgerton family moments, I loved Eloise and Benedict back at the swings, bonding over being the family rebels, Anthony talking to Gregory about their father, and Daphne's happy, slightly smug smile seeing Anthony and Kate together, like she's thinking "Oh yeah, I really called it." 

Queen Charlotte saves the day! Very smooth telling everyone that the wedding being called off was on her orders, then basically announcing that everyone better get dancing, saving both families from scandal. She looked as charmed as I did by Anthony and Kate glowing all over each other, she might come off as cold and snarky most of the time, but she has a real romantic side to her, I can imagine that seeing real love like what Kate and Anthony have reminds her of her and George from back before he started falling to his illness. 

Eloise finally finds out the truth about Penelope, and she's not only shocked, but furious. I cant really blame her, Penelope might have dragged Eloise through the dirt to help her, and I do think that she wrote about Eloise to protect her, but almost ruining Daphne last season didn't help anyone, and there is no indication that Daphne was ever anything but nice to her. Its a messy situation, I feel bad that Penelope is so badly treated and ignored by society and her own family that she feels like this is the only way she can strike back or have an outlet, and what she is writing is mostly what everyone knows anyway, but she has still dragged a lot of undeserving people through the mud, including people she cares about. I think what Eloise might be really mad about is that Penelope lied to her though, and that she spent all of this time trying to find Lady Whistledown when she was standing right next to her, she probably feels betrayed that her best friend didn't trust her, and feels like a fool for not catching on to what was happening right under her own nose. Its like Edwina being furious when she found out about the romantic tension between Kate and Anthony, she feels like she was taken for a ride by someone who's supposed to care about her. She also wasn't really wrong about how Eloise talks a big game about wanting more out of life than to be a wife and mother and about the unfairness of their society, but she doesn't really do much except for complain, although her friendship with Theo Sharpe has helped move her more into the direction of broadening her horizons and really taking risks. But at the same time, I wouldn't exactly call Lady Whistledown a feminist icon looking to dismantle their oppressive system. She does call out some really bad behavior by bad people, like the guy last year who left his mistress and child destitute, but she also throws all kinds of shade at people like Daphne, who have never done anything to deserve it. I am sure that they will make up, but they are really going to need to talk.

I hope that Anthony and Kate are still a big part of the show next season, I would love to see more of their married life. So who's next on the to be wed list? Benedict? Colin? Newton? 

On 4/1/2022 at 7:47 PM, scarynikki12 said:

Yes! I want to see baby corgis running around.

Newton needs a coming out ball to find the right lady corgi!

On 4/2/2022 at 8:49 PM, MartyQui said:

It would have been so sexy for her to have a chemise and a corset…as a costume person, it just took me out of the scene to have her wearing something so out of the one (her bra/corset thing too)

she should have had a chemise, yes. But the bra-ish thing was not far off from some of the bust support garments worn during the era.

 

[truthaboutluv]

While it started a bit slow for me, owing mostly to the fact that I didn't care for Kate in Episode 1 (found her unnecessarily abrasive - less so regarding Anthony but towards Lady Danbury), by the end, like others, overall I enjoyed this season more than Season 1. And more importantly, I enjoyed Anthony and Kate as a pairing more so than Simon and Daphne. 

I think it's a testament to Jonathan Bailey and Simone Ashley's chemistry that Kate and Anthony were able to still shine so well despite the fact that the writers really did, in some ways, relegate their love story to a supporting storyline. That I think was the biggest misstep of the season - too many unnecessary side stories and dragging out the eventual coupling FAR TOO LONG. 

I never read the books 

Spoiler

and so I actually assumed they were just following the source material. I was shocked to find out that everything from Anthony and Edwina even getting engaged, veered away from the book. And that was definitely a mistake, IMHO.

I understand the soapy appeal of having Anthony engaged to Edwina while being in love with her sister. However, I definitely think the writers took it way too far with getting all the way to the wedding day. I watched Episode 6 completely confused and baffled when I realized the wedding day was actually happening, thinking, "no wait, this is still going on?"

It was just drama for drama's sake at that point and completely unnecessary. And also why it's understandable that some Kanthony shippers feel robbed at not seeing enough of them happy and in love. However, even despite that misstep, as noted above, I still enjoyed the overall season more than Season 1, and enjoyed Anthony and Kate more than Simon and Daphne, despite the latter's many naked furniture banging sex scenes. 

Finally, not sure if this is an unpopular opinion, but I imagine I was supposed to feel bad for Edwina, particularly in Episode 6. But I just, well...didn't. Probably because I found Edwina to be a complete simp most of the season. Hell, that betrayal and her righteous indignation over it gave her more of a personality than all the prior episodes combined. 

I just feel like Edwina came across at times as a trained, prized pony. Kate reared her to be the "perfect wife" so she could marry well. And so everything about her just came across as performative. Hell, it almost reminded me of the hilarious scene from Coming to America when Eddie Murphy's character meets his arranged bride. I half expected Edwina at one point to be all, "whatever your favorite is my lord" and start hopping on one foot. 

Also, while I couldn't begrudge her feelings of betrayal particularly regarding Kate, I was completely baffled when she was all, "do you love me..." to Anthony in Episode 6 when she was still "making her choice." Because all I could think was, in the words of Tina Turner, "what's love got to do with it?"

Kate flatly told Edwina when she was initially against the Anthony match that Anthony made it clear he was NOT interested in a love match but merely a comfortable arrangement. When Anthony showed up at the talent nonsense thing, he stopped spewing the fake lines Benedict told him to make it clear to Edwina that what he had to offer more than anything else was stability. I think that's why Kate herself seemed stunned when Edwina first declared how she loved Anthony because Kate was probably thinking, like me, "wait, how did that happen?"

So I'm sorry but I don't buy that Edwina suddenly thought Anthony was so in love with her, especially as she herself, the night before the wedding, talked about how Anthony rarely ever looked her in the eyes. The match was a suitable one as was common for that time. And sure, I could see her hoping that eventually it would grow into deep love. But this notion that suddenly Edwina really thought Anthony was marrying her because he was so in love with her was ridiculous, IMHO. 

Edited April 19, 2022 by truthaboutluv

[Enero]

Quote

You’re right. 

To expand further- Anthony is a man. A wealthy titled one at that. Yes he has responsibilities to his family, but he’s free to do what he wants for the most part because he’s at the top of the social hierarchy. So when he’s decided emotionally that he wants xyz, it’s done, but Kate doesn’t have that luxury.

Kate is a woman, a woman without a dowry, no father, who’s family is “thisclose” to financial ruin. She’s smart and capable (hence why she has an offer to be a governess lined up) but she’s always had to be more pragmatic. She did see how much Lady Mary gave up financially/socially to marry her father, and while she didn’t doubt they loved each other (and she knows Lady Mary loves her) as she said to her in episode 4 or 5 “that’s a high price to pay for love.” Kate can’t afford ANY missteps. While Anthony could meet his need for partnered sex and companionship through women like Sienna (and general sex workers) until he was “ready” to marry, Kate (and women in her place) didn’t have that option. 

Kate probably had to “turn off” that part of herself, or even thoughts of wanting to explore it to focus on making sure her family was secure. 

How does Kate know Anthony really wants her when he’s kind of been dicking around? Yes he’s said “you consume me” but that can mean “I want you as my long term mistress.” Not “please be my wife.”

@Scarlett45

I completely agree with everything you’ve said here. Even when Anthony came to visit Kate after she’d recovered from the fall, his statements seemed to center around obligation rather than love. Which is why Kate rejected his proposal, then later cried on Mary’s shoulder about him not loving her and not allowing him to marry her out of obligation.

Even after their lovely dance at the Featherington Ball, where it was obvious Anthony was completely smitten with her, she still had plans to return to India. It was only when he told her what he felt for her – telling her he loved her, and what wanting and dreaming of her meant – that he didn’t want to live his life without her and wanted her as his wife, that she finally conceded and confessed her love and accepted his marriage proposal.

Thankfully Anthony finally got it right, expressing himself clearly because if he’d not done that, he would’ve lost his chance at a future with Kate.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Enero

[eleanorofaquitaine]

On 4/19/2022 at 12:19 PM, truthaboutluv said:

So I'm sorry but I don't buy that Edwina suddenly thought Anthony was so in love with her, especially as she herself, the night before the wedding, talked about how Anthony rarely ever looked her in the eyes. The match was a suitable one as was common for that time. And sure, I could see her hoping that eventually it would grow into deep love. But this notion that suddenly Edwina really thought Anthony was marrying her because he was so in love with her was ridiculous, IMHO. 

I do but it's not because of Anthony's words or actions. How many of us at that age were obsessed with some guy and constantly reading into his actions? In this case, Anthony did propose to Edwina, so it's not illegitimate of her to think he had some feelings for her. And then beyond that, she was seeing what she wanted to see, which is really not that uncommon for someone who is 21 and really into someone.

Obviously we can see that Anthony's attitude in private towards Kate was very different than his attitude towards Edwina, so we know his feelings towards Kate were much stronger. But Edwina didn't have the same insight because both Anthony and Kate were keeping it from her.

I mean, I think that Edwina was a little harsh towards Kate and also really didn't seem to understand how much Kate was giving up to position Edwina in the best position to marry. So I think that there are reasons to criticize her. But I do believe she thought Anthony loved her even if she was incredibly wrong. 

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

And then beyond that, she was seeing what she wanted to see, which is really not that uncommon for someone who is 21 and really into someone.

Edwina was even younger- probably about 18. And a sheltered 18 at that. 

 

1 hour ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I mean, I think that Edwina was a little harsh towards Kate and also really didn't seem to understand how much Kate was giving up to position Edwina in the best position to marry. So I think that there are reasons to criticize her. But I do believe she thought Anthony loved her even if she was incredibly wrong. 

Yes, Anthony did PROPOSE. Before the proposal he could’ve backed away and not caused Edwina any negative social consequences, even make it look like she turned him down. Anthony is far older, and a man, he’s the one with the most social power in this scenario. 
 

Edwina was a little harsh towards Kate but I cut her more slack than I would other wise:

1. The pure shock and public embarrassment,

2. The fact that both Kate and Lady Mary have sheltered and protected Edwina her entire life. She is legit “the baby” of the family, she’s never been expected to think for herself (which she admits),

3. She got over it pretty quickly- we are talking a span of 2 weeks between the botched wedding and Kate fully recovering from her fall (she was out a week they said). One week of being pissed isn’t that long. 

[Enero]

5 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

But I do believe she thought Anthony loved her even if she was incredibly wrong. 

I disagree. The night before the wedding she expressed concern about him not looking at her enough. I think she came out and said she wish she was certain of his love for her, but she was reassured mostly by Mary. I’d argue that Edwina was uncertain about Anthony’s feelings. But he’d proposed and she was blinded by her desire to be the viscountess. Notice when she goes off on Kate about the betrayal she talks about her dream living her life as the viscountess and managing Aubrey Hall.  Not once did she say she loved Anthony and thus was one of many reasons why she was hurt over what happened. For all of Edwina’s naivety and supposed lack of agency, she had no problem whatsoever deciding that she wanted Anthony no matter what he or anyone else said (or didn’t say in Anthony’s case). So again, I think she was blinded by what could be, not by what was. When she saw the way Anthony looked at Kate (and she at him) at the wedding the blinders finally came off. 

 I did feel a little bad for Edwina, but then she was just so harsh towards Kate, throwing in her face that they were half sisters, then whining about true love being a lie, then telling Kate she was heartless. By the time we got to her heartless comment I was too done with her. As someone said upthread , I don’t think she grasped what Kate had sacrificed for her and their family. And though I thought her anger was warranted, I thought her inability to grasp the full scope of the situation beyond Anthony, made her come off as immature (which she was, despite her insistence that she is a grown woman) and almost a little spoiled and pouting. I think if Kate had not had the riding accident Edwina would’ve been angry for much longer than a week. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Enero

[truthaboutluv]

6 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Anthony did propose to Edwina, so it's not illegitimate of her to think he had some feelings for her.

Yes, feelings that she was the season's diamond and thus a suitable match, which I noted. That it was very common of that time for people to marry mostly because the coupling "made sense." And sure, it wasn't out of the realm of possibility for love to develop over time. But typically they go into the marriage mostly viewing it as a "sound pairing." 

As I said, I certainly can understand Edwina believing that one day she and Anthony would have a loving marriage, because if you spend enough time with someone, have children, that's more than possible. It's the notion that suddenly she was demanding and apparently surprised at the idea that Anthony was not in love with her on their wedding day that I call bullshit on.

Because for all the reasons I listed, Edwina was never given any indication that this was a love match, considering again her own sister told her the man made it clear he was looking for a suitable wife for a comfortable life and NOT a love match. Regardless of Kate's existence, so no, I didn't expect her to know Anthony had feelings for Kate, I still do not buy that Edwina suddenly believed Anthony was marrying her because he loved her so much.

eta: Basically what Enero said. 

[truthaboutluv]

25 minutes ago, Enero said:

And though I thought her anger was warranted, I thought her inability to grasp the full scope of the situation beyond Anthony, made her come off as immature (which she was, despite her insistence that she is a grown woman) and almost a little spoiled and pouting.

Agreed with the whole comment and especially this part. I'll also add that I felt like that spoiled and pouting attitude was a consequence of how much Kate herself had gassed Edwina up. I think Kate, in her determination to give her sister the best life possible, which nothing wrong with that, had as I noted in a previous comment, almost reared Edwina into this show pony.

A show pony that very much expected the very best, including being chosen by a Viscount. As you noted, she spoke about the title and being head of the household, far more than what she supposedly loved so much about Anthony.

And again, you almost couldn't blame her because Kate had essentially bred her for that mindset and gassed her up so much. And then the Queen made her the season's diamond. Of course the girl thought it was her right to have someone like Anthony. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by truthaboutluv

[phoenics]

On 4/17/2022 at 8:22 AM, Scarlett45 said:

I don’t think it had anything to do with the size of Simone’s hands. I personally LOVE evening gloves, and when they are removed it makes for kind of an erotic scene no? So modest yet so sensual. 
 

And let's please not forget that in the gazebo lovescene, Anthony slips off her glove and puts her finger IN HIS MOUTH in one criminally sexy move.

*fans self*

[phoenics]

On 4/4/2022 at 7:03 PM, ursula said:

It casts a different light if Kate was going to India with the chance she might be pregnant. After all the emphasis last season about sex and baby-making - not just Daphne, but also wrt Marina -  the audience's minds will automatically go there. So yeah, it is a gaping plot hole, and it's (imo) part of the problem with the way Kathony wasn't given the A-story treatment it deserved this season. 

 

Honestly I LOVED Season 2 but this is the one thing that really bothered me after I finished the season.  The show really did NOT give Kanthony their due.  Out of a 500 minute season, they got 109 minutes of screentime together.  For the B-plots not to have taken over the show, that means the Edwina, Mary, Lady D, Violet, Daphne, and Queen C scenes that supported Kanthony would have to be over 140 minutes just to take up half the season.   I know that didn't happen.  Which means the B plots took well over half the season away from the leads.  That's just ... not okay.  I was really annoyed that Pen/El/Featheringtons took up so much screen-time that we literally got 6 minutes of Kanthony happy and together all season at the end of episode 8.

Like WTF.  Honestly it felt like the show didn't trust that Kanthony could carry the season and buried the lede (literally) in side plots. 

Still, even with that - Kanthony MADE this season for me.  I loved them.  Jonny Bailey is a sensation and literally must have popped out of the womb smoldering and exhaling heavily, lmao.  Simone was just breathtaking as Kate and so regal.  And together - that chemistry was just pure fire.  I have been DESPERATE for that "hold your breath" chemistry for such a long time.  I feel like I haven't seen it on network television since Olitz from Scandal, and OG Roswell's Max and Liz and before that B&B's Brooke and Ridge.

That scene in the library after Kate tells Anthony she's going to India, and he's all "I am a Gentleman... and my heart is with your si..." [HE JUST TRAILS OFF!] and then "Tell me ... you feel nothing..."

JHC.

Then that scene where he tells her "You are the bane of my existence... and the object of all my desires... do you even know all the ways a lady can be seduced..."

GOOD. LORD.

And the way he walks out of the room but right before he does, he looks like he's about to devour her with a kiss but manages to stop himself?

And my personal favorite at the gazebo - when he goes "of that ... [DEEPLY INHALES HER] scent" and then Kate lets out this small whimper at the same time I DID sitting on my couch...

Whew.  It's hot in here, right?

I am SUCH an angst wh*re.  This season was MADE for me.

I think I've watched and rewatched the season 5 times now.

Every time I find some new nugget.

I've watched and rewatched that horse accident scene... from Anthony's distorted "KATE!!" scream to him carrying her into the house "Make way!" to him fussing over her "She needs more blankets, she's SHIVERING!!!"  The doctor demanding Anthony "Let me work man!"

Loved it.

Oh and that last dance on the dance floor with their hands in front of their faces... Simone is literally a Disney Princess in that scene.  Her EYES!  And Jonny with all that emotion flitting across his face and the jaw clenching... 

*whispers*: So Good.

So - to make up to us what the show didn't give us about Kanthony in this season (Kate deserved more delving into her backstory and I want to see more Kanthony in general), I hope Kanthony gets to occupy the side plots majorly in S3.

I think everyone has said my thoughts on El and Pen... I - well I don't really care for either of them and think they've sucked up a lot of screentime... I don't know how Pen can be redeemed or if the writers even realize she needs to be redeemed... and I could only tolerate El in her scenes with Theo, and that appears to be over, so... welp.  I don't know if I can handle a season centered around either one of them.

Scratch that - I know I can't, lol.

I did not miss Simon this season except in the scenes with Daphne (who was brilliant and hilarious in her ability to peep what was going on with Kanthony).  I say just recast Simon tbh.

Also - loved Benedict at the dinner - his grabbing his face with his hands and then peeking out after he knocked over the wine glass was so adorably funny.

It was also cool to see Rupert Evans' Edmund, even if only for a short time.  He's such a wonderful actor.

But the stars of the season were definitely Jonny and Simone.  

Team Kanthony.

 

[katha]

4 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Agreed with the whole comment and especially this part. I'll also add that I felt like that spoiled and pouting attitude was a consequence of how much Kate herself had gassed Edwina up. I think Kate, in her determination to give her sister the best life possible, which nothing wrong with that, had as I noted in a previous comment, almost reared Edwina into this show pony.

A show pony that very much expected the very best, including being chosen by a Viscount. As you noted, she spoke about the title and being head of the household, far more than what she supposedly loved so much about Anthony.

And again, you almost couldn't blame her because Kate had essentially bred her for that mindset and gassed her up so much. And then the Queen made her the season's diamond. Of course the girl thought it was her right to have someone like Anthony. 

Yeah, I thought Edwina basically just starting to develop a personality at 18/19 is a direct result of Kate protecting/controlling/smothering her to a point where she's both totally focused on finding the perfect match with unrealistic expectations and also acts like a typical teenager that feels entitled to things going her way without knowing about the family's difficult circumstances. In that sense Kate hurt her, even if it was done out of love and with the best of intentions. 

Edited April 21, 2022 by katha

[ursula]

On 4/20/2022 at 8:06 PM, phoenics said:

Honestly I LOVED Season 2 but this is the one thing that really bothered me after I finished the season.  The show really did NOT give Kanthony their due.  Out of a 500 minute season, they got 109 minutes of screentime together.  For the B-plots not to have taken over the show, that means the Edwina, Mary, Lady D, Violet, Daphne, and Queen C scenes that supported Kanthony would have to be over 140 minutes just to take up half the season.   I know that didn't happen.  Which means the B plots took well over half the season away from the leads.  That's just ... not okay.  I was really annoyed that Pen/El/Featheringtons took up so much screen-time that we literally got 6 minutes of Kanthony happy and together all season at the end of episode 8.

 

I read somewhere that Dorset and Kate had more bonding/ non-sexual connection in one boat ride than Kathony did for the entire season, and I can't unsee it now. What a waste. 

[phoenics]

On 4/22/2022 at 2:52 AM, ursula said:

I read somewhere that Dorset and Kate had more bonding/ non-sexual connection in one boat ride than Kathony did for the entire season, and I can't unsee it now. What a waste. 

Oh noes - now I can't unsee it!  The show better make up for this!

[wanderingstar]

My reaction every time Anthony said "I am a gentleman" during this season

[bijoux]

Hey now, he proved it in episode 7 when he went down on Kate and then woke up with a shit eating grin next morning. That's a gentleman in my book.

 

[andromeda331]

Finally got to the last episode.

I don't like Eloise but she was right in her fight with Penelope. I like Penelope but she was wrong. Although she was right that at least she did something while Eloise didn't. Eloise has been so obnoxious this season I was really hoping by the end of it she learned how her actions have consequences. Of course she didn't. I was also hoping she would finally do something. But she didn't.

I wonder what Penelope plans to do with the money she has. Part of me hopes she blows town because her family sucks and Eloise really isn't that good of a friend. But then she wouldn't be part of the show.

I have a hard time believing Colin put together that Lord F was lying. Colin's really not that bright. I don't like him either. I really don't want Penelope to end up with him.

I loved Portia out conning Lord F. That was incredible. I wish she would stop treating Penelope like crap.  

I loved all the scenes with Anthony and Kate. They were incredible. The dance was perfect. So was the gardens.  

I loved the scene between Mary and Kate. I love their relationship. The one with Anthony and Gregory was really sweet. 

 

 

[Enero]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Eloise...was right in her fight with Penelope.

I agree. I'm not a big fan of Penelope only because she does what she does without remorse. Moreover, as someone else pointed out, what makes her actions unscrupulous is that she's betraying the confidence of those who trust her. She's outing their secrets to sell papers.  In addition to that, the gossip she's publishing has nearly ruined several women's lives and their families reputations. Though the actress is lovely and Pen, at times, displays some compassion (her scolding her mother's joke about the Bridgertons and subsequently the Sharmas while Kate was still unconscious from the fall), I need more from her before I can ever support this character in anything. I need her to acknowledge how poisonous her pen has been. 

Quote

her family sucks...I loved Portia out conning Lord F. That was incredible.

Indeed. Though we all commended Portia for drawing a line at abandoning her daughters to save her own neck, for me that praise is limited. Lord Featherington wouldn't have even suggested such a move, I don't think, if Portia hadn't so willingly risked her daughter's reputation in an attempt to save herself (and their family).  Then there was the ruby scheme, for which she was the mastermind and her engaging in inappropriate intimate interaction with the Lord while he was engaged to her daughter. So while I'm glad she chose her daughters, the contempt she showed towards the Lord when ousting him, was pure hypocrisy considering just days before she was his biggest cheerleader in this scheme and didn't seem to care much about her daughters, specifically the one who was engaged to him, when locking lips with him. 

Quote

I have a hard time believing Colin put together that Lord F was lying. Colin's really not that bright. I don't like him either. I really don't want Penelope to end up with him.

I agree. Like you, that was a leap considering how gung ho he was about doing "something" with his life and the fact that he's not very bright and not a jeweler. I didn't understand what made him so confident the jewels were fake? Was it Will's disdain for the Lord? Does he have that much trust in Will's opinion of someone? If he does I've not seen it before.  

He and Pen appear to be fated to become a couple, but like you I have no interest in seeing this coupling. Though my reasons go beyond Colin being just...argh. Lol.

 

Quote

I loved all the scenes with Anthony and Kate. They were incredible. The dance was perfect. So was the gardens.  

Something I noticed when re-watching this episode was how much Anthony was smiling at Kate at the Ball. This was before he even went to her. At first I thought it was love, happiness to see her etc. It was that, but I think he was also happy to see that she and Edwina had ironed out their differences.  Speaking of Edwina for all my railing on her I thought she did grow leaps and bounds, maturing quite a bit in the last 30 minutes of this episode. 

Quote

I loved the scene between Mary and Kate. I love their relationship.

Me too. I did have to laugh though at her "Oh sh*t" face when Kate told her about she and Anthony having sex, and then her immediate deep breath and look of we'll get through this. Lol. Loved it! I really would love to see her again and more of her relationship with Kate. Unfortunately that may be a pipe dream since she's likely fulfilled her purpose on the show with Kate now married and Edwina likely to disappear into the ether. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Enero

[ouinason]

I think it might have been the boxer telling him about the scheme that clued Colin in about it.  I think he's not a super sleuth, but he has a REALLY good poker face.

[ursula]

After the euphoria of returning to the world of Bridgerton has passed... I have to admit that season 2 was a miss for me. And it comes down to having no rewatch value. Too much time focused on side plots. More lust (with little pay off) than emotional connection between the romantic leads. In fact no pay off for any of the emotional beats. A dynamic (love triangle with siblings) that I dislike and left a bad taste in my mouth. And gaping plot holes that make no sense. 

It was nice to return to the world of pretty costumes, people and music, but that's it. Fingers crossed that season 3 can recapture the magic of Bridgerton.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

2 minutes ago, ursula said:

After the euphoria of returning to the world of Bridgerton has passed... I have to admit that season 2 was a miss for me. And it comes down to having no rewatch value. Too much time focused on side plots. More lust (with little pay off) than emotional connection between the romantic leads. In fact no pay off for any of the emotional beats. A dynamic (love triangle with siblings) that I dislike and left a bad taste in my mouth. And gaping plot holes that make no sense. 

It was nice to return to the world of pretty costumes, people and music, but that's it. Fingers crossed that season 3 can recapture the magic of Bridgerton.

To each his or her own, of course, but I could not disagree with this assessment more. Nothing against season 1 but I haven't rewatched it, for the most part. I found season 2 much more emotionally complex and engaging. 

I do wish we had a little more time with Kate and Anthony instead of the side plots. But that is a minor quibble to me. I very much feel like Kate and Anthony were more interesting characters to me than Simon and Daphne (which is not to say I dislike Simon and Daphne, I just feel like the writers did a better job helping us understand the dilemma that Kate and Anthony were in).

[ursula]

1 hour ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I found season 2 much more emotionally complex and engaging. 

There was zero emotional complexity is exactly my point. Anthony preferred Kate because he wanted to bang her. The show was so busy pushing the love triangle between these two sisters and Anthony that it ended up splitting Kathony's love story. Edwina got to bond emotionally with Anthony while Kate got the UST and nothing else. 90% of the time, Kate and Anthony behaved like they hated each other.

I knew there was something seriously wrong when I found Dorset, a glorified extra, a better romantic suitor for Kate than the romantic lead. Their 10 minute boat ride gave them a deeper connection than Kathony got through out the season.

I love an enemies to lovers trope when done well, but the "to" was missing. Maybe if they had taken 20 minutes from the B, C and D plots to actually service the love story, we could have seen Kate and Anthony talk to each other about something other than wanting to bang. (And the ultimate irony is that after all the emphasis on sex, it's still left unclear whether they even had it!)

Edited April 29, 2022 by ursula

[truthaboutluv]

2 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

To each his or her own, of course, but I could not disagree with this assessment more. Nothing against season 1 but I haven't rewatched it, for the most part. I found season 2 much more emotionally complex and engaging. 

Agreed. As I noted in another comment, I found Season 1 cool for what it was but didn't buy into the hype and I have never had any desire to rewatch a single episode of the season. This time I've actually rewatched a few episodes (NOT that horrible Episode 6) and actually find myself watching clips of Kate and Anthony's scenes online. Something I never did for Simon and Daphne. 

 

28 minutes ago, ursula said:

Edwina got to bond emotionally with Anthony while Kate got the UST and nothing else.

It's always so interesting reading different perspectives because I didn't see this at all and it's one of the very reasons I mentioned above being so thrown when Edwina was demanding to know if Anthony loved her in Episode 6. Or when she declared she was in love with him prior, because I for one saw zero connection between those two - not romantic, lust, emotional or otherwise.

At best, I'll concede they had that one moment when they first met when Anthony found out she too had lost her father and you saw the wheels going in his brain that she perfectly fit the mold he was looking for, for a "comfortable arrangement." But I certainly didn't see romance there or any other connection. 

I thought it was brilliant of the writers to put in the scene of her and the other ladies playing cards where Edwina was babbling on about Anthony's supposedly being so even tempered and Daphne was all, "say what now...who are we talking about?" IMHO that was the writers' not all subtle indication that Edwina in fact did not know Anthony at all and instead just had some idealized, romanticized version of him in her mind. 

The Pall Mall game was also a big factor. To me, it showed again how Edwina actually didn't have a real connection with Anthony and by that token his larger family. Sure, Kate was insanely competitive but that's exactly how the Bridgertons were and it made her appear to just fit right in. Edwina on the other hand, was wound so tight, she couldn't even laugh at herself for sucking at the game and instead just put a damper on the whole thing. 

I can certainly understand how some may view Anthony and Kate as just lust because I wholeheartedly agree that the writers' did the pairing a disservice by dragging out the eventual coupling far too long.

But I can't say I ever saw a legitimate triangle because I never felt there was any connection from Anthony's end, towards Edwina. That and it didn't help that despite not being that far apart in ages in real life, Edwina looked like a child next to Anthony. And there were a few times where the imagery made me a little uncomfortable. Particularly during that first dance where they were I guess "flirting."

Edited April 29, 2022 by truthaboutluv

[eleanorofaquitaine]

3 hours ago, ursula said:

There was zero emotional complexity is exactly my point. Anthony preferred Kate because he wanted to bang her. The show was so busy pushing the love triangle between these two sisters and Anthony that it ended up splitting Kathony's love story. Edwina got to bond emotionally with Anthony while Kate got the UST and nothing else. 90% of the time, Kate and Anthony behaved like they hated each other.

I knew there was something seriously wrong when I found Dorset, a glorified extra, a better romantic suitor for Kate than the romantic lead. Their 10 minute boat ride gave them a deeper connection than Kathony got through out the season.

I love an enemies to lovers trope when done well, but the "to" was missing. Maybe if they had taken 20 minutes from the B, C and D plots to actually service the love story, we could have seen Kate and Anthony talk to each other about something other than wanting to bang. (And the ultimate irony is that after all the emphasis on sex, it's still left unclear whether they even had it!)

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but that's an opinion, not a fact. 

The reality is that people fall in love all the time for reasons that aren't expressed verbally. IMO, the writers understand that and they allowed us to see the reasons that Kate and Anthony fell in love with each other, rather than tell us. It's clear to me that all the scenes of Kate and Anthony prior to them realizing that they were attracted to each other showed why they fell in love with each other - both are headstrong and smart, and they enjoy being challenged by each other.

And then, of course, after they realized their attraction to each other, we also saw Anthony, in particular, recognizing how much he admired Kate's devotion to her family. And how much they had in common because they experienced early loss. A lot of this wasn't articulated directly to each other but it's why we had the scene in the library during the storm and Mary's conversation with Anthony about Kate taking on so much responsibility, much like Anthony himself did after his father died.

Anyway, like I said, I would have liked to see more interaction but I absolutely saw two people who were becoming emotionally attached beyond their obvious physical attraction to each other. YMMV.

[Cetacean]

12 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Anyway, like I said, I would have liked to see more interaction but I absolutely saw two people who were becoming emotionally attached beyond their obvious physical attraction to each other.

I read it that way as well.  I'm not sure that Anthony preferred Kate because he "wanted to bang her".  Would he have done that an walked away if the opportunity had presented itself?  I really don't think so.  There was both physical attraction and the recogntion of how much alike there were and a meeting of minds.  I see them as finding their equals but family obligations were strongly felt by both.

I did not rewatch the first season.  I have rewatched this one and saw a lot more than I did at my first viewing.

And on a shallow note, they are a stunning couple.

[bijoux]

6 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

 But I can't say I ever saw a legitimate triangle because I never felt there was any connection from Anthony's end, towards Edwina. That and it didn't help that despite not being that far apart in ages in real life, Edwina looked like a child next to Anthony. And there were a few times where the imagery made me a little uncomfortable. Particularly during that first dance where they were I guess "flirting."

There was a shot, I think when Anthony brought Nectar, where Edwina is standing between Kate and Anthony and they look lile parents squabbling over their kid. Uncomfortable is just the word for it.

[katha]

For people who are adapting romance novels, IMO the Bridgerton TPTB have surprisingly bad understanding about what makes romances work LOL. That's been to some degree a problem in both seasons. 

I do think the focus on the drama and the triangle and the lack of focus on Kate were great writing mistakes that dragged the season to some degree. What did save it for me is that the writing/scenes that were present for Anthony/Kate seemed to at least understand what makes them as a couple. And Bailey and Ashley really, really understand what makes them tick and elevated what was there with their performances. That doesn't change the fact that it should have been more. 

The progression from two people lashing out at each other because they are so similar was well done in the first two episodes. Then the gradual recognition not only of their attraction but also an understanding of their comparable roles in their families and the resulting outlook on life they share. And the fear of that ending with the disastrous proposal. Then it dragged on too long with the stupid wedding, that should have been used to actually have Kate and Anthony resolve their issues. After the failed wedding then basically Anthony helping Kate figure out what she wants to do in life, since she was so stuck in never doing anything for herself. I have already said that I liked the emotional progression there because usually the romance heroine has to teach the hero how to have feelings. I liked the subversion of the trope, that Anthony got there himself while Kate needed the help. 

So for all the nonsense, IMO at least season two didn't destroy the foundation of the central pairing. Whereas season one was an unmitigated disaster for me at that front the moment they decided that they won't get rid of the sexual assault. It would have been such an easy fix. And in the end though Daphne and Simon had nice chemistry, I just thought their relationship was toxic beyond belief. They had not solved what actually needed solving: The lies, manipulations and violations their relationship is based on. Simon wanting or not wanting kids became pretty much background noise to the much more severe issues they had that were presented on-screen and then never resolved. 

 

[jrzy]

On 3/26/2022 at 1:04 AM, Door County Cherry said:

Goodness.  First Penelope damaged Marina's reputation.  And now her best friend's.  I'm glad when Eloise was yelling at her, she mentioned Marina and called her out on it.  But I just don't know how the character recovers?  Although maybe the writers don't think she needs to since they seem to focus a lot on her and her POV more than almost any other character consistently.

Seeing Kate and Anthony in the last fifteen minutes killed me.  The last four episodes of the season have been so dour, we needed more lightness from them.  Since this season has been full of so many other side plots, I hope we get a lot of happiness from them next year. And sexiness. I do think Anthony is a good "head of the family" character for future seasons at the very least.  Yes, in combination with his mother, but his scene with Gregory was awesome. 

I might have been confused but I think Portia is keeping the money they effectively stole, she's just going to make it seem it was Lord Featherington who kept the money and ran. And doesn't this cause scandal for Prudence? 

I was confused by that too,  so Portia stole the money essentially,  wouldn't that come out eventually?

[Cetacean]

41 minutes ago, jrzy said:

I was confused by that too,  so Portia stole the money essentially,  wouldn't that come out eventually?

Portia is just going to blame the cousin who has skedaddled back to the US.  The Featheringtons have maintaind their lifestyle, for the most part, so perhaps the ton does not know they were broke but are now living on the swindled money.

[ouinason]

Excuse me guys, Portia is a WOMAN, how dare you think she is intelligent and creative enough to do such a thing.  

Cause, look, this show has embraced anachronistic racial ideas, but they haven't dropped the social/gender ideas of the time.

[andromeda331]

On 5/2/2022 at 5:44 PM, ouinason said:

Excuse me guys, Portia is a WOMAN, how dare you think she is intelligent and creative enough to do such a thing.  

Cause, look, this show has embraced anachronistic racial ideas, but they haven't dropped the social/gender ideas of the time.

A woman who got completely screwed over by her husband who gambled everything away. His murdered left them destitute and completely depended on the "new" heir who got everything they had and turned out to be completely broke and telling lies about his ruby mines. What she did to Jack in the end secured her family's fortune, title and estate. 

[Cetacean]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

What she did to Jack in the end secured her family's fortune, title and estate. 

I am confused by that, though. Weren't estates entailed on male heirs?  Even though he scampered away, doesn't the title still belong to him?  Seems like that was the big deal on Downton Abbey, the fact that there was no way that the daughters would inherit the estate, it had to go to a male heir.

[Enero]

2 hours ago, Cetacean said:

I am confused by that, though. Weren't estates entailed on male heirs?  Even though he scampered away, doesn't the title still belong to him?  Seems like that was the big deal on Downton Abbey, the fact that there was no way that the daughters would inherit the estate, it had to go to a male heir.

That's my thought as well, that the estate would be in control of whomever is the next male in the family whether that be a son, brother, cousin, uncle etc., but then we have Lady Danbury who is widowed and appears to have control of her own money and estate? Does she have any children? I'm assuming if she has daughters they're married off somewhere. I doubt she has a son because he'd be in control of the estate. 

 

[bijoux]

It's been a while now and I haven't rewatched these scenes, but didn't the Featherington maid forge some documents stating that the heir to the barony would be the firstborn son of any of the three girls? Did I conjure this up?

[Ohiopirate02]

 

2 hours ago, Cetacean said:

I am confused by that, though. Weren't estates entailed on male heirs?  Even though he scampered away, doesn't the title still belong to him?  Seems like that was the big deal on Downton Abbey, the fact that there was no way that the daughters would inherit the estate, it had to go to a male heir.

 

7 minutes ago, Enero said:

That's my thought as well, that the estate would be in control of whomever is the next male in the family whether that be a son, brother, cousin, uncle etc., but then we have Lady Danbury who is widowed and appears to have control of her own money and estate? Does she have any children? I'm assuming if she has daughters they're married off somewhere. I doubt she has a son because he'd be in control of the estate. 

 

Men were the ones who inherited estates and titles, but not all dowagers were powerless. It really depends on the marriage settlements they had, the age of the heir, and the personalities of the dowager and heir.  Some heirs wanted nothing to do with their estates and would leave their mother/grandmother/aunt in charge of the estate while they pursued their passion.  Other heirs were literal children who's care was entrusted to a guardian who may or may not be a woman.  Other heirs (and I suspect this is the case with the Danburys) were no match for their mothers and chose to live on another property while the dowager reigned in the family's main house.  

Portia is only trying to keep the family money and house in her possession as a way to marry off her daughters.  She knows she cannot keep them for the rest of her life.  She is trying to set up her daughters with husbands who will support them and her.  

[Llywela]

It also really depended a lot on the legalities behind the disposition of any given estate. Some were entailed to the male line, others were not, which meant that some women were left penniless while others got to inherit. As ever in life, it was often a matter of luck.

[andromeda331]

17 minutes ago, bijoux said:

It's been a while now and I haven't rewatched these scenes, but didn't the Featherington maid forge some documents stating that the heir to the barony would be the firstborn son of any of the three girls? Did I conjure this up?

No, she did forge the documents saying just that. Her maid Varley is apparently so good at forging names that no one would question it. 

[shapeshifter]

1 minute ago, andromeda331 said:

No, she did forge the documents saying just that. Her maid Varley is apparently so good at forging names that no one would question it. 

Can we get a spinoff with Varley The Maid/Calligrapher as the main character?

[andromeda331]

23 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Can we get a spinoff with Varley The Maid/Calligrapher as the main character?

Yes! I'd like to know how she learned to be so good at forging. Did she work for British Intelligence at one point?