S01.E09: Let the Tournament Begin

[rollacoaster]

You know what? 

I found this entire season to be low-stakes, low-nutrient entertainment, and I'm totally looking forward to the next season!

What I did find to be nutritious and delicious were the delightfully thoughtful and snarky post in this forum. I looked forward to coming here after the show as much as I enjoyed watching it. Maybe even more so. 

I'm not really a romance fan, but, I guess I'll check out this new season of Bridgerton to get my fancy costume and house porn fixes. 

I really, really miss Harlots. 

[pasdetrois]

Halfway through this season I stopped watching. The gorgeous visuals couldn't compensate. But I watched the last two episodes last night.

Fellowes is just so relentlessly shallow, and he panders. The predictable, pot-boilery plotlines. The hammy acting (the secretary spending Dixon's bribes with smirks on her face). And Fellowes' inner bitchery shining through with these rich women's petty triumphs. He does that a lot and glories in it. Says a lot.

Very disappointed in Coon's wooden acting. Perhaps her real-life pregnancy affected her?

The less said about the insipid, simpering Louisa Jackson as Marian the better.

 

 

[rollacoaster]

21 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Halfway through this season I stopped watching. The gorgeous visuals couldn't compensate. But I watched the last two episodes last night.

Fellowes is just so relentlessly shallow, and he panders. The predictable, pot-boilery plotlines. The hammy acting (the secretary spending Dixon's bribes with smirks on her face). And Fellowes' inner bitchery shining through with these rich women's petty triumphs. He does that a lot and glories in it. Says a lot.

Very disappointed in Coon's wooden acting. Perhaps her real-life pregnancy affected her?

The less said about the insipid, simpering Louisa Jackson as Marian the better.

Well, you're not wrong about any of this. 

[kristen111]

22 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Very disappointed in Coon's wooden acting. Perhaps her real-life pregnancy affected her?

I’m so happy you said that.  Everyone seemed to love her and her acting.  The word “wooden” was exactly what I thought.  I wasn’t impressed with her at all.

[Cheezwiz]

5 hours ago, kristen111 said:

I’m so happy you said that.  Everyone seemed to love her and her acting.  The word “wooden” was exactly what I thought.  I wasn’t impressed with her at all.

Seconded (or thirded?). I wasn't really familiar with her prior to watching this and was a bit surprised by all the breathless fandom. I thoroughly enjoyed  the movie "Gone Girl" and I know she played Ben Affleck's sister, but I actually have absolutely NO memory of her from that film. Nada.  I never saw The Leftovers, so maybe I missed a bravura performance from that one? I was puzzled as to why everyone was fanning themselves over her work in this - she seemed pretty one-note to me, although things picked up slightly toward the finale. I readily admit I could  be missing something though.

Louisa Jacobson on the other hand, was just painful for me to watch in a lot of episodes - like watching a bad high-school play.

I was honestly pretty bored throughout and mainly watched for the gorgeous sets and costumes, (along with nice work from actors in the more secondary roles). Awesome title sequence that I never skipped, so well done to whoever came up with that!

[Logosian]

I've enjoyed the series quite a bit, being a history buff.  It's like having Birmingham's "Our Crowd" brought to life and serialized.

So many interesting characters, so many currents to follow:

Marian and Mr. Raikes: Doomed from the moment he set up shop in New York.  Aunt Agnes saw through him almost immediately, even before Raikes himself knew what he was about.  Marian's connection to one of the old families provided an entrance for Raikes' introduction to other connected families.  His looks and charm did the rest.  By the time of his last meeting with Marian in the park, where he again expressed his love, he knew that it was over.  He'd met Cissie Bingham by then, knew that she was interested, and also knew that she could provide what Marian could not - the lifestyle he now knew he so coveted, as Agnes divined from the start.  Raikes is the adventurer and opportunist Marian was warned about, gold-digging his way into the lifestyle he craves.

Peggy and Marian:  what a progressive relationship for the time!  Only a few decades out from blacks being held as chattel and Peggy and Marian, despite the societal obstacle against it, find a friendship based on mutual affection and outlook.  Bravo to the series creators for including this dynamic.

Peggy:  An upper middle class black family, a true rags to riches story.  Peggy is educated, fierce where necessary, and ambitious at a time in our history when she has no right to be, based on the prospects for women and blacks.  Her father strong arming the destruction of her marriage, and financing and abetting the theft and giving away of Peggy's baby, was horrific, especially for an ex-slave.  I'm afraid this portends an irreconcilable conclusion to that relationship for Peggy.  How do you come back from having given away a woman's child, then lying to her about it, especially if you're the one man she should have been able to count on for protection?

Marian:  I take an opposite opinion from many of those posted on these forums.  Marian is a proper "Miss" for the times, polite, aristocratic in bearing even if from humble origins, not given to hysteria or overly emotional scenes.  Expecting her to give a modern reaction to something like Raike's betrayal completely misses the context of the Victorian times in which she was raised.  Remember how aghast Agnes was later, when she'd come to her senses after her crashing of Peggy's small dinner party.  There was a way of doing things then, especially for the upper classes.  I expect to see Marian's character grow and develop with Raike's abandonment being a pivotal moment for her.

Agnes and Ada:  I'm enjoying these two much more than I expected to.  Agnes, without even trying, is a hoot. ;)  Her militant snobbery, while having it constantly challenged by circumstance, and her over the top dramatic read of situations amuses me to no end.  The actress brings so much to the role.  Ada is the real surprise!  She has depths that even Agnes does not realize, in ways seeing even deeper than Agnes.  Yet she also has a strong nurturing streak that's displayed in her dealings with Marian and Mrs. Bauer.  Yet she can be tough as Agnes, as displayed in her handling of Aurora's information at the time of Marian's intended elopement.

Bertha Russell:  What a vain, silly, insecure, manipulating woman!  And yet she has so much strength.  She sublimates her family's happiness, and even well-being, to her own social amibitions, as displayed in being concerned with George's possible indictment primarily in the context of how it will affect her social maneuverings, as George throws into her face.  He daughter is not "out" because Bertha sees her daughter's emergence as another shoe horn into the society she so deeply craves.  And she doesn't even realize that Gladys knows what her mother is doing and will begin to distance herself from her later because of it.

 

That's enough for now, more later...

 

[peeayebee]

On 4/6/2022 at 11:04 AM, kristen111 said:

I’m so happy you said that.  Everyone seemed to love her and her acting.  The word “wooden” was exactly what I thought.  I wasn’t impressed with her at all.

In the very first episode, I thought she was wooden, as were so many of the actors. But I either got used to her or just accepted that this was intentional, with her being outside of the old-money group. I'm still undecided.

On 4/6/2022 at 4:23 PM, Cheezwiz said:

I never saw The Leftovers, so maybe I missed a bravura performance from that one?

Yes.

[Enigma X]

Personally, I equate Carrie Coon's performance (and others) to that of Elizabeth McGovern in Downton Abbey. Fine in many other things but awful connected to Fellowes productions.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Enigma X

[AZChristian]

29 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

Personally, I equate Carrie Coons performance (and others) to that of Elizabeth McGovern in Downton Abbey. Fine in many other things but awful connected to Fellowes productions.

I agree.  Look up "simpering face" in the dictionary, and you'll see her picture.

Edited April 8, 2022 by AZChristian

[Roseanna]

On 4/4/2022 at 1:58 AM, rollacoaster said:

I would like to raise some considerations regarding Peggy's former husband Elijah.

I don't necessarily take his willingness to sign the annulment papers as evidence of his triflingness. Let's compare this situation to the interaction that George Russell had with Gladys' beau Archie. I mean, Archie was from old money (I think) and from a similar position of power and privilege as George, and he still chose to abscond after George threatened to ruin him. Recall he threatened his stenographer in a similar manner. I think the gap between Elijah and Mr. Scott is much wider from a social and economic perspective. What could a poor, probably educated young man do against a powerful, well-respected, self-made man like Mr. Scott?

I know that nowadays we almost always root for the plucky underdog to overcome against the more powerful, that really wasn't the way things generally worked out in the ye olde timey. The rich, then as now, had so much power over the poor, and the poor had little recourse. Elijah was at a complete disadvantage. Mr. Scott felt no special affinity for Elijah and wouldn't have hesitated to ruin his life. And I'm sure her father impressed on the young man his complete unworthiness as a husband for his daughter. Elijah (and a baby) was just a stumbling block to Peggy's bright future. I don't think either Mr. Scott or George would have suddenly gained respect for either young man if they'd decided to stand up to them. You obeyed or you were crushed. Even wealthy young men like Archie. Especially poor young men like Elijah.

You may be right that Gladys' husband had no choice against her father. 

Still, Gladys' beau Archie wasn't in exactly the same situation - he had had only some dates with her, so one can assume that he got over the separation, just as Gladys did. Instead, Elijah and Peggy had got to know each other well when they had worked in her father's pharmacy and after the elopement they had lived together almost a year (assumed that they had sex only after the marriage) and they had a baby together. 

I just come to think: if Peggy's father was present during or just after she had given birth to her baby, did he just find the couple or was he asked for financial help by Peggy (before the delivery) or her husband? If it was her husband, perhaps even without her knowledge, her father had a good reason to believe that he was no good as he had married her without proper means. 

 

  

   

[Scarlett45]

5 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I just come to think: if Peggy's father was present during or just after she had given birth to her baby, did he just find the couple or was he asked for financial help by Peggy (before the delivery) or her husband? If it was her husband, perhaps even without her knowledge, her father had a good reason to believe that he was no good as he had married her without proper means. 

I do agree with you that a married Elijah had a greater duty to Peggy than a pre-official courtship Archie, but I don’t think Peggy asked her father for any money. Elijah likely didn’t have money to support Peggy in a manner her father deemed appropriate. He was a stock boy, and her age. He was “broke” by her father’s standards. 
 

Likley what I think happened is that the couple eloped, Mr Scott tracked them down, Peggy was married and pregnant. Mr Scott probably “played nice” to make sure they didn’t run off again, and while Peggy was recovering post birth he paid off the midwife to get rid of the baby, and paid of/threatened Elijah (or is it Elias, I need to go watch the episode again) to sign the annulment papers. When Peggy finally came to, and was well enough to ask after her baby and her husband, whomever was caring for her told her the baby died. Her father probably then told her that the marriage was over and he was taking her home. 
 

Peggy was weak, sick, post partum and in shock. Likely a few weeks later when she was 100% and back in the family home she asked for details. Was the baby stillborn or died after? Was he baptized and named? Where was he buried? Her father gave her none. She pressed, he told her to “get over it”- she stewed and decided to take manners into her own hands and hunt down the midwife. 
 

 

[kristen111]

On 3/25/2022 at 3:05 AM, Roseanna said:

You are quite right. Gladys' quadrille partner would naturally asked for her first dance if they were in good terms.

Plus, after all her work Bertha wouldn't have left such an important detail to a chance with whom Gladys danced her first dance in her coming-out bail, but would have arranged it before.

 

I remember a novel about 1830ies where unmarried society girls wore pastels, whether the color suited them or not.

Generally, the primary intention of the clothes IMO isn't to make the audience say "wow" but to tell about the character's social standing and means, character and taste. In the best cases individual scenes tell also about the character's present feelings and the relationship with the other(s) (do the colors suit to each other or not).

In the same way, the primary intention of home is to tell about the character. Which makes me wonder whether Agnes is really rich or does her home only tell that because everyone knows she belong to Old Money, she doesn't need to show her wealth.

Mrs Astor seems to think differently, at least in her new holiday home in Newport -  but I believe Bertha could easily make a more stylish one. 

There was one scene where Marian looked great.  She had a day outfit on that was all brown from head to toe.  She looked stunning.  Brown looks smart and goes great with her hair coloring.  She looked classy, not babyish.

[Roseanna]

20 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I do agree with you that a married Elijah had a greater duty to Peggy than a pre-official courtship Archie, but I don’t think Peggy asked her father for any money. Elijah likely didn’t have money to support Peggy in a manner her father deemed appropriate. He was a stock boy, and her age. He was “broke” by her father’s standards. 
 

Likley what I think happened is that the couple eloped, Mr Scott tracked them down, Peggy was married and pregnant. Mr Scott probably “played nice” to make sure they didn’t run off again, and while Peggy was recovering post birth he paid off the midwife to get rid of the baby, and paid of/threatened Elijah (or is it Elias, I need to go watch the episode again) to sign the annulment papers. When Peggy finally came to, and was well enough to ask after her baby and her husband, whomever was caring for her told her the baby died. Her father probably then told her that the marriage was over and he was taking her home. 
 

Peggy was weak, sick, post partum and in shock. Likely a few weeks later when she was 100% and back in the family home she asked for details. Was the baby stillborn or died after? Was he baptized and named? Where was he buried? Her father gave her none. She pressed, he told her to “get over it”- she stewed and decided to take manners into her own hands and hunt down the midwife. 

Interesting thoughts. We haven't told enough, so we can only make guesses. You evidently start from the assumption that Peggy's father had dubious intentions from the beginning whereas I have strong suspicions towards her husband.

What kind of character and morality has a man who elopes with his employer's daughter? Either a man who is a gold-digger or a man who doesn't care what's best for her. Peggy is talented, but in the situation where she had to take care of the household and a baby (as they couldn't afford a servant), she couldn't have had enough time nor energy to to write. 

Of course it was Peggy's choice as well, but we have seen how easily Marian was manipulated by Raikes, and Peggy never warned her friend which shows that she must have been even more naive before.  

 

[Roseanna]

16 hours ago, kristen111 said:

There was one scene where Marian looked great.  She had a day outfit on that was all brown from head to toe.  She looked stunning.  Brown looks smart and goes great with her hair coloring.  She looked classy, not babyish.

I can't understand why Marian should have looked stunning and classy. Shouldn't her clothes rather show what kind of character she has: a naive young woman who is easily manipulated?

If and when she changes, her clothes can change too.    

[Roseanna]

I can't understand why Peggy was so interested to find her *dead* baby's grave, but she otherwise showed no signs of excessive grief, not to speak of serious trauma.

Why on earth must she have a secret in her past when her quest to become an author was much more interesting and, before all, original?

[Scarlett45]

41 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

I can't understand why Peggy was so interested to find her *dead* baby's grave, but she otherwise showed no signs of excessive grief, not to speak of serious trauma.

Why on earth must she have a secret in her past when her quest to become an author was much more interesting and, before all, original?

I would prefer a focus on Peggy’s writing- but I understand it. 
 

My Mother had not set foot in a cemetery in 46 years, since she buried her own mother in 1975. When her best friend died from cancer last year (she was medical POA), the husband threw a hissy fit (as in had to be removed from the hospital by security) and after she was dead took over the burial arrangements. Obviously my Mom wasn’t invited. My Mother asked could she go visit the grave several months later.
 

I did my research and found the grave- I’m shock because my entire childhood, when I buried all my relatives my mother NEVER attended burials with me. Never. 
 

So I get it. Sometimes your heart hurts so bad you have to say goodbye in your way. A friendship of 50yrs isn’t an infant (I’m not saying that), but I really get it after what my Mom went through last year. 

[kristen111]

I just read in my Sunday newspaper that House Beautiful tallied 18 different historic homes used in the first season.  All of which can be visited in person.  

[kristen111]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I would prefer a focus on Peggy’s writing- but I understand it. 
 

My Mother had not set foot in a cemetery in 46 years, since she buried her own mother in 1975. When her best friend died from cancer last year (she was medical POA), the husband threw a hissy fit (as in had to be removed from the hospital by security) and after she was dead took over the burial arrangements. Obviously my Mom wasn’t invited. My Mother asked could she go visit the grave several months later.
 

I did my research and found the grave- I’m shock because my entire childhood, when I buried all my relatives my mother NEVER attended burials with me. Never. 
 

So I get it. Sometimes your heart hurts so bad you have to say goodbye in your way. A friendship of 50yrs isn’t an infant (I’m not saying that), but I really get it after what my Mom went through last year. 

A friend of mine’s Father died.  Her Mother didn’t go to the funeral. She stood home.  I can understand that.  

[kristen111]

On 4/6/2022 at 6:23 PM, Cheezwiz said:

Seconded (or thirded?). I wasn't really familiar with her prior to watching this and was a bit surprised by all the breathless fandom. I thoroughly enjoyed  the movie "Gone Girl" and I know she played Ben Affleck's sister, but I actually have absolutely NO memory of her from that film. Nada.  I never saw The Leftovers, so maybe I missed a bravura performance from that one? I was puzzled as to why everyone was fanning themselves over her work in this - she seemed pretty one-note to me, although things picked up slightly toward the finale. I readily admit I could  be missing something though.

Louisa Jacobson on the other hand, was just painful for me to watch in a lot of episodes - like watching a bad high-school play.

I was honestly pretty bored throughout and mainly watched for the gorgeous sets and costumes, (along with nice work from actors in the more secondary roles). Awesome title sequence that I never skipped, so well done to whoever came up with that!

I saw Gone girl also and don’t remember Carrie Coon either.

[kristen111]

On 4/6/2022 at 6:23 PM, Cheezwiz said:

Seconded (or thirded?). I wasn't really familiar with her prior to watching this and was a bit surprised by all the breathless fandom. I thoroughly enjoyed  the movie "Gone Girl" and I know she played Ben Affleck's sister, but I actually have absolutely NO memory of her from that film. Nada.  I never saw The Leftovers, so maybe I missed a bravura performance from that one? I was puzzled as to why everyone was fanning themselves over her work in this - she seemed pretty one-note to me, although things picked up slightly toward the finale. I readily admit I could  be missing something though.

Louisa Jacobson on the other hand, was just painful for me to watch in a lot of episodes - like watching a bad high-school play.

I was honestly pretty bored throughout and mainly watched for the gorgeous sets and costumes, (along with nice work from actors in the more secondary roles). Awesome title sequence that I never skipped, so well done to whoever came up with that!

I just hope Agnes and Ada get out of that living room more.

[Scarlett45]

9 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Interesting thoughts. We haven't told enough, so we can only make guesses. You evidently start from the assumption that Peggy's father had dubious intentions from the beginning whereas I have strong suspicions towards her husband.

What kind of character and morality has a man who elopes with his employer's daughter? Either a man who is a gold-digger or a man who doesn't care what's best for her. Peggy is talented, but in the situation where she had to take care of the household and a baby (as they couldn't afford a servant), she couldn't have had enough time nor energy to to write. 

Of course it was Peggy's choice as well, but we have seen how easily Marian was manipulated by Raikes, and Peggy never warned her friend which shows that she must have been even more naive before.  

 

I judge Peggy’s father more harshly because he was a grown man and the person with the most social power. We also now know he’s someone that’s spent a solid year lying to his wife and daughter, and got rid of his grandchild, letting his daughter believe her baby was dead, so I see him as someone who could’ve started as being fucking ANGRY that his ONLY CHILD ran off with the stock boy- Disobeying his authority and ruining her chances to make a socially advantageous match. 
 

“Best case scenario” Elijah was just a young man in love/lust- naive and wrapped up like Peggy was, he may have thought Mr Scott would come around. 
 

From what we have been told they were peers, so this wasn’t a case of him “preying” on a young girl, they knew each other because he worked in her father’s store and were around each other a lot. It was likely a case of mutual attraction and a bit of folly on BOTH parts. They did elope, he didn’t impregnate her and abandon her. Peggy wanted to be with him, for whatever reason. 

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, Scarlett45 said:

I judge Peggy’s father more harshly because he was a grown man and the person with the most social power. We also now know he’s someone that’s spent a solid year lying to his wife and daughter, and got rid of his grandchild, letting his daughter believe her baby was dead, so I see him as someone who could’ve started as being fucking ANGRY that his ONLY CHILD ran off with the stock boy- Disobeying his authority and ruining her chances to make a socially advantageous match. 

Also he probably did have an alternative to get what he wanted if he just elevated Elijah in his business. We don't know if Elijah had any plans of his own--that was the one thing Peggy criticized Raikes for not having.

[Scarlett45]

56 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Also he probably did have an alternative to get what he wanted if he just elevated Elijah in his business. We don't know if Elijah had any plans of his own--that was the one thing Peggy criticized Raikes for not having.

No we don’t know. He could’ve been a gold digger, or he could’ve had an interest in attending school or learning the pharmacy trade but just didn’t have the opportunity. 
 

Mr Scott could’ve said “I would be okay with the courtship of you wait two years to marry- I want to see you advance in a career and save.”, sounds reasonable. But likely he just forbid the relationship like Bertha did to Gladys. 
 

Edited to add- I have taken more of my thoughts to the speculation thread. 

[blackwing]

On 4/6/2022 at 12:04 PM, kristen111 said:

I’m so happy you said that.  Everyone seemed to love her and her acting.  The word “wooden” was exactly what I thought.  I wasn’t impressed with her at all.

 

On 4/8/2022 at 8:34 AM, peeayebee said:

In the very first episode, I thought she was wooden, as were so many of the actors. But I either got used to her or just accepted that this was intentional, with her being outside of the old-money group. I'm still undecided.

 

On 4/8/2022 at 9:06 AM, Enigma X said:

Personally, I equate Carrie Coon's performance (and others) to that of Elizabeth McGovern in Downton Abbey. Fine in many other things but awful connected to Fellowes productions.

Admittedly, I don't like Bertha, so that may colour my view of Carrie Coon's performance.  But whether it's intentional or not, I didn't like the performance.  I'm sure she thought she did a bang-up job playing "steely and determined" Bertha.  But I thought she was awful.

Everyone raves about how fantastic she is, and says she was great in "The Leftovers".  But I saw her in the new Ghostbusters movie and I thought she was just as bad in that as she is here in "The Gilded Age".  Overrated.  Also, and this may be a bit unfair to her, but I don't care for her Squinty McSquint Renee Zellweger-ish eyes.

[rollacoaster]

On 4/10/2022 at 1:36 PM, Scarlett45 said:

On 4/10/2022 at 1:30 PM, sistermagpie said:

Also he probably did have an alternative to get what he wanted if he just elevated Elijah in his business. We don't know if Elijah had any plans of his own--that was the one thing Peggy criticized Raikes for not having.

No we don’t know. He could’ve been a gold digger, or he could’ve had an interest in attending school or learning the pharmacy trade but just didn’t have the opportunity. 
 

Mr Scott could’ve said “I would be okay with the courtship of you wait two years to marry- I want to see you advance in a career and save.”, sounds reasonable. But likely he just forbid the relationship like Bertha did to Gladys. 

I absolutely appreciate this take. It makes so much sense, and is probably why it wasn't the direction that was chosen. 

But, of course if this had happened, we wouldn't get all this missing baby based family DRAH-MAH!

[Ilovepie]

Finally got to watch this. I enjoyed it for what it is - a shallow period piece with beautiful clothes. l find this is an interesting time and place - i wish they would explore the city more.

My biggest annoyance though is the fact that it reads like an American Downton Abbey. I really wish the downstairs characters had just been in the background and there were more upstairs characters to flesh out the "society". For a show about people trying to worm their way into a group, they group was very small. Ada mentioned "the four hundred". We saw what, five families? It just seemed too small to really convey the idea. I feel like there needs to be more primary upstairs characters, and for once, skip the downstairs people.

It would serve Oscar right if his boyfriend won Gladys' affection. I hope that plot twist happens. It would be more interesting.

[smartymarty]

On 4/4/2022 at 3:20 PM, rollacoaster said:

I found this entire season to be low-stakes, low-nutrient entertainment, and I'm totally looking forward to the next season!

What I did find to be nutritious and delicious were the delightfully thoughtful and snarky post in this forum. I looked forward to coming here after the show as much as I enjoyed watching it. Maybe even more so. 

I'm not really a romance fan, but, I guess I'll check out this new season of Bridgerton to get my fancy costume and house porn fixes. 

Just binge-watched the last 5 episodes while home sick. Really did not rise to the level of Downton Abbey (the early seasons). Most gowns I did not like, and though the house porn was ample, I just kept thinking how I would not enjoy living in such places.

On 4/6/2022 at 6:23 PM, Cheezwiz said:

Louisa Jacobson on the other hand, was just painful for me to watch in a lot of episodes - like watching a bad high-school play.

I was honestly pretty bored throughout and mainly watched for the gorgeous sets and costumes, (along with nice work from actors in the more secondary roles). Awesome title sequence that I never skipped, so well done to whoever came up with that!

She was bad. I would fantasize how a different actor would have delivered her lines better.

On 4/10/2022 at 4:38 AM, Roseanna said:

Of course it was Peggy's choice as well, but we have seen how easily Marian was manipulated by Raikes, and Peggy never warned her friend which shows that she must have been even more naive before.  

Peggy did caution her, especially after the out-of-town kiss. At some point I think she and Mrs. Chamberlain figured she had to make her own mistake. The thing I didn't understand was that if it was just that they were in love, damn society and Aunt Agnes, why didn't they consider moving back to Doylestown where Raikes could resume his practice? Marian was accustomed to a life without lots of money. That they wanted both the marriage and the money seemed strange to me.

On 4/10/2022 at 1:36 PM, kristen111 said:

I just hope Agnes and Ada get out of that living room more.

At least open the curtains for some light sometime! What do they do all day? They have servants for all the chores. Read and sew? Because yeah, Agnes never left the house except when ordered to go to the Russells across the street.

On 4/10/2022 at 2:36 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Mr Scott could’ve said “I would be okay with the courtship of you wait two years to marry- I want to see you advance in a career and save.”, sounds reasonable. But likely he just forbid the relationship like Bertha did to Gladys. 

Or as someone else suggested, immediately make him a partner in the business. If we get anymore of that story in season 2, I expect we won't find out why that didn't happen, since the writing on this is so bad.

[Bellatrix]

On 3/23/2022 at 12:06 AM, NeenerNeener said:

I've decided I like Cynthia Nixon as an actress again, as long as I don't ever watch her again in And Just Like That. 

Cynthia Nixon's actually really wonderful as Eleanor Roosevelt, too, opposite Kenneth Branagh as the President, in Warm Springs (2005).

It's a really good movie, and they're both great in it.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Bellatrix

[Bellatrix]

On 3/23/2022 at 7:37 PM, Yours Truly said:

I have to say I do appreciate the pace of the show and I love the deadpan delivery of dialogue. I love that the wit stands on its own and isn't drowned out by overacting or theatrics. I love how it's directed to be intense without too much intensity. It keeps the energy light and the audience is able to focus and catch so much of the nuance that is happening in each scene. Also, as lackluster as it may seem, I don't mind the light thud of some of the storylines, or the decidedly non-grandiose closure of others. I don't want to be in the throws of anxiety and heartbreak when I watch TV shows. I can usually muster the strength for a movie but I don't want beat down after beat down after beat down every week so the way they introduce, tackle then resolve strife and drama works for me. 

I'm happy the Raikes storyline is somewhat over. I hope it stays that way. And I'm happy each occurrence of "scandal or strife" isn't stretched out over weeks and weeks. The Russell strive to be accepted was a season long dilemma but that was okay because that was the overall theme and expected its the minor hiccups and snags and dilemmas that happened along the way but dispensed of in a timely manner that had me relieved. To much gets too messy and frustrating. 

So much this.

[circumvent]

I just finished the season and thought it was fun, although I am not invested in anyone's story.

What I am looking forward to is that the writers decide to go all the way to the end of the century depression that gave rise to the the progressive movement - hopefully with a lot of poetic license so they can make all the bourgeoisie freak out a lot. That will be entertaining

[Thumper]

From @sistermagpie, regarding Marian and Raikes,  pages back: “It's like they just found themselves in scenes together and thought oh, I guess we're getting married.”   😂😂😂

Shallow comment : Bertha’s everyday hair/wig updo was so bad!!!  The hair looked fake and it had a very unattractive swoop near her forehead.  
 

I know I’m late to the party, but we just finished viewing the series.

[rollacoaster]

On 7/1/2022 at 11:58 AM, Thumper said:

From @sistermagpie, regarding Marian and Raikes,  pages back: “It's like they just found themselves in scenes together and thought oh, I guess we're getting married.”   😂😂😂

Shallow comment : Bertha’s everyday hair/wig updo was so bad!!!  The hair looked fake and it had a very unattractive swoop near her forehead.  
 

I know I’m late to the party, but we just finished viewing the series.

Welcome! Spill your thoughts!

[Camera One]

I mostly liked this finale to the season.  The extortion used to get people to the ball was amusing, though I don't buy that Mrs. Astor doesn't want to kill Mrs. Russell forcing her hand.  I was surprised when Mrs. Russell asked Mrs. Astor to ask Agnes to the ball.  We had never even seen Agnes and Mrs. Astor talk.

I'm glad Marian didn't marry Raikes, but that was rather anti-climatic.  It doesn't make sense that Raikes was so pushy but just didn't show up.  He was certainly not discreet with being so close with other women at a public venue, so he seemed almost clueless.

I was surprised how sharp Ada was.  Her scene with Peggy in that scene of realization with the bags, and the scene with Marian afterwards was well acted.  You could see her conflicted feelings.  I guess brain cells were inherited by the two sisters, but not Marian's father or Marian.

So the chef was just pretending to be angry he couldn't cook all French foods a few episodes ago with the dinner that no one attended?

I think this was the first episode I truly felt for Peggy, when she saw the letter about her baby.  I am looking forward to her and her mother searching for her baby.  

I'm sort of glad there was no big twist with Turner showing up to throw a bomb shell or Raikes tricking Marian into her marrying her, or anything.  It made the episode just a fun diversion, though not overly well written.  I think a major problem for me is that Marian herself is still a blank slate in terms of personality.  What was her life like before coming to New York?  Didn't her father just die, but she has hardly mentioned him. 

[SoMuchTV]

On 3/22/2022 at 12:45 AM, Kleav said:

(And please, people, it's spelled 'Marian.')

I'm only just now binging the series and trying to catch up with comments here, but I'm sorely tempted to quote and repost your comment on every thread in this forum.  But, sigh, I suppose that wouldn't be kind.

[sistermagpie]

20 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

I'm only just now binging the series and trying to catch up with comments here, but I'm sorely tempted to quote and repost your comment on every thread in this forum.  But, sigh, I suppose that wouldn't be kind.

Is "Marion" the male version or...?

[Salacious Kitty]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

Is "Marion" the male version or...?

John Wayne was a Marion. Disgraced track star Marion Jones is female. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Salacious Kitty

[RachelKM]

48 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Is "Marion" the male version or...?

No. They are just variations of spelling. Neither name is more associated with either gender.  

[Roseanna]

On 10/20/2023 at 8:17 AM, Camera One said:

I'm glad Marian didn't marry Raikes, but that was rather anti-climatic.  It doesn't make sense that Raikes was so pushy but just didn't show up.  He was certainly not discreet with being so close with other women at a public venue, so he seemed almost clueless.

Anti-climatic is just the right word. Raikes wasn't even a villain, but just a weak man who was in love with Marian but in the last moment chose a heiress. Not totally unbelievable although it's diffical to understand why he pushed Marian to marry him just because he felt a temptation to betray her. 

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, RachelKM said:

No. They are just variations of spelling. Neither name is more associated with either gender.  

Oh good! I tend to default to Marion just because I prefer that spelling for whatever reason.