S02.E01: The Star Gazer

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Starfleet must once again call on legendary Jean-Luc Picard after members of his former crew -- Cristóbal Rios, Seven of Nine, Raffi Musiker, and Dr. Agnes Jurati -- discover an anomaly in space that threatens the galaxy.

Dropping on Paramount+ on Thursday, March 3, 2022.

[dwmarch]

I'll have to re-watch to pick up all the details but I'd say this season is off to a way, way better start than season 1. That was a good first episode!

[paigow]

What happened to the rag-tag crew of rebels? They all re-enlisted...

[millennium]

The de-aging of John DeLancie looked pretty convincing for that moment or two.

Things felt a bit rushed at the end, especially coming after a rather ponderous 3/4 of the show.

I'd have thought Guinan would get a new hat after all these years.

How is it Seven of Nine is even more attractive now than on Voyager?

Has Laris' appearance been modified since Season 1?  She looks a bit different.   Her accent seems less pronounced as well.

 

[paigow]

TNG!Guinan was usually more oblique making her points...

[cambridgeguy]

4 hours ago, paigow said:

What happened to the rag-tag crew of rebels? They all re-enlisted...

They had to be a ragtag team because Starfleet wasn't on board.  Apparently Admiral Clancy and the rest of the higher ups decided Picard and friends weren't so filled with hubris after all. 

[millennium]

I mentioned the age-leap of Q above but I just remembered Guinan did the same thing.   Mighty nice of all these aliens voluntarily aging their appearance just to make the poor humans feel less self-conscious about their dismal shelf life.  Once, okay.  But twice in the same episode?  🤫 Data made a similar gesture in the finale of TNG.  His motive was different though.

Edited March 3, 2022 by millennium

[MissLucas]

I admit I'm tired of time-travel shenanigans but  Alison Pill was hilarious and I can't wait to see what Seven and Rafi are up to and how Elnor's absolute candor works in the 21th century. I'll miss the Rios holos but I hope he and Dr Jurati can patch things up. Soji looked great but she's still not my favorite character.

This might be sacrilegious to admit but I would watch this show even without Picard. Especially without emo Picard. It was nice to see Guinan again but I have no interest in Picard's mummy issues. Also: run Laris, run and stop wasting your time and life! Going to make a bold prediction now: Picad will meet her in the alternative timeline and not make a mess of things and then in the end he has to give her up in order to restore the timeline.

Edited March 4, 2022 by MissLucas

[marinw]

Weird: In Canada STD and  and Picard are airing at the same time on CTB SciFi! Not sure how that works. I have set to record Picard at 10 pm Atlantic Time and STD at 3.30 am or something.

12 hours ago, millennium said:

How is it Seven of Nine is even more attractive now than on Voyager?

Because Jeri Ryan is gorgeous! 

Edited March 3, 2022 by marinw

[cambridgeguy]

2 hours ago, millennium said:

Mighty nice of all these aliens voluntarily aging their appearance just to make the poor humans feel less self-conscious about their dismal shelf life. 

I'm pretty sure Q didn't do it to make Picard feel better, he did it to mock him.  I look as old as you now and boy, do I look old!

[paigow]

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Going to make a bold prediction now: Picad will meet her in the alternative timeline and not make a mess of things and then in the end he has to give her up in order to restore the timeline.

Only if her dead husband was never born... like John Connor... because of the Borg / Q timeline meddling

Edited March 4, 2022 by paigow

[MissLucas]

9 minutes ago, paigow said:

Only if her dead husband was never born... like John Connor... because of the Borg / Q timeline meddling

He could also be eeeevil!

[starri]

Well, that was just....neat.

[greekmom]

From the top I guess?!?!
1. Was the pairing of Beverly Crusher and Picard just swept under the rug?  Not that I am not liking the pairing of Laris and Picard but just saying. Why hasn't there been any mention of that?

2. I could have done without Guinan. Not a fan of Whoopi I'll be honest.  I think the heart to heart would have been done better with Troi but she's busy with Riker and their daughter.

3. Can't believe Agnes got off. UGH.

4. JOHN DELANCIE IS BACK!!!!! I missed you Q! The only thing I liked is how they deaged him and then reaged him to explain why he looks old. At least they did 1 thing right.

5. Please do not tell me that anyone was surprised on the Borg with the green space anomaly.  It's GREEN. That means BORG. Even without the 10 million teasers, trailers, etc. you still know it's Borg.  I would have agreed with Seven off the bat. The Borg do not negotiate. They do not broker peace. Frack. Picard should know that.

6. I did like what Seven did to all the Rio holograms. 

7. I did notice that Sir Pat Stew is doing what Cynthia Nixon did with the S&C revival. Making their character themselves with real life. It was never in ST cannon that Picard's mother was verbally or physically abused by Picard's father.  But here we are. 

Anyhoo....my Borg Queens only include Alice Krige and Susanna Thompson.  I don't recognize this crap that they are passing off as a Queen.

[millennium]

On 3/3/2022 at 6:47 PM, greekmom said:

2. I could have done without Guinan. Not a fan of Whoopi I'll be honest.

I can't stand Whoopi, never could.  But I liked TNG Guinan.   Picard Guinan seems more Whoopi than Guinan, much like Shatner in the ST movies was 98% Shatner and maybe 2% Kirk (if that).

On 3/3/2022 at 6:47 PM, greekmom said:

7. I did notice that Sir Pat Stew is doing what Cynthia Nixon did with the S&C revival. Making their character themselves with real life. It was never in ST cannon that Picard's mother was verbally or physically abused by Picard's father.  But here we are.

One thing I want in an authority/command figure is a sense that he/she's not as messed up as I am, that they are rock-solid and won't be distracted from the job by the weaknesses that plague the rest of us.   Picard was always like that.   I mean, he tried to power through his brother and nephew being burned alive in a fire.  TOS Kirk was the same way, not even shedding a tear when his brother was killed by the flying fried eggs on Deneva.   The mummy issues seem too touchy-feely for Picard, more like a very special episode of Discovery.  I hope they don't mess this up.

On 3/3/2022 at 6:47 PM, greekmom said:

Anyhoo....my Borg Queens only include Alice Krige and Susanna Thompson.  I don't recognize this crap that they are passing off as a Queen.

I loved Alice Krige in Ghost Story.  The Borg Queen, not so much.

On 3/3/2022 at 6:47 PM, greekmom said:

7. I did notice that Sir Pat Stew is doing what Cynthia Nixon did with the S&C revival.

P.S.  If Che Diaz shows up, I'm out.

[starri]

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

1. Was the pairing of Beverly Crusher and Picard just swept under the rug?  Not that I am not liking the pairing of Laris and Picard but just saying. Why hasn't there been any mention of that?

The only actual romantic pairing of them I remember was in the beta canon, almost all of which at this point can't be reconciled with the alpha canon.  Which is a shame, because with no shows to worry about contradicting, Pocket Books built out an INCREDIBLY rich universe.  They did give the authors the chance to build to a conclusion, however, called Coda.

[Frozendiva]

I enjoyed the return of Q and that Picard's trial is never over. Reminded me a bit of Kafka.

The new class of ship is cool and of course the green anomaly is Borg. The Borg Queen had a cool costume. So they want to join the Federation? Suuuuure. The use of the language stream was interesting. Help Picard. Like Help Me, Obi Wan Kenobi.

Was Guinan really needed? Seven of Nine is still badass.

Why did most of the rag-tag crew sign up for Starfleet. I did find it neat to see a Romulan go through Starfleet Academy.

Here's hoping this season will be a decent vintage.

[paigow]

35 minutes ago, Frozendiva said:

I did find it neat to see a Romulan go through Starfleet Academy.

Definitely getting an A+ in sword-fighting class... handy when your phasers cannot re-modulate fast enough against a Borg personal force field.

[millennium]

It hasn't occurred to me to ask before now, but what became of Picard's mortal body?   It must be somewhere.  The one he's in now is 100% synthetic.   So where's the corpse?  Did he build it a cairn like the one he made for Kirk?  It would have made a memorable scene if they had shown Picard viewing his own remains on a slab.

And where's the dog, Number One this season?  Did I miss him?

Edited March 4, 2022 by millennium

[Orbert]

The doggo was there with Picard out in the vineyard, when those two machines went hovering by.  We got a couple brief glances at him.

[millennium]

Good to know, thanks.

[thuganomics85]

Star Trek: Picard is back and almost everything has changed!

Solid opening, but they definitely seemed to revamp a lot of stuff here.  Instead of the gang still together, both Rios and Raffi have rejoined the Federation, Seven (yay to Jeri Ryan being bumped up to regular status!) is now using Rios' ship to run missions and supplies for those in need (only staffed by a Rios hologram that has merged all of them into on being somehow), Elnor went to the Starfleet Academy and has become the first Romulan to graduate, Soji seems to be some kind of diplomat for the synths, and is accompanied by Agnes, who apparently got out of whatever legal trouble she could have gotten into due to last season.  As Picard himself, he went back to his winery and is now doing a "will they, won't they" with Laris, who I guess her husband died at some point?  Whew, a lot to take in!

And now a new form of Borg have crashed the party!  Well, kind of.  Because this all seems to be part of a scheme cooked up by (cue drumroll): Q!  Heh, Picard's face during that reveal pretty much said it all (say what you will about Sisko, but he probably made the right call to just punch Q in the face when they first met.  No doubt saved him and the DS9 crew a lot of headaches.)  Great to see John de Lancie back in the role and I can't wait to see how this plays out!

Nice seeing Guinan again as well, although I hope she eventually does more than just give Picard romantic advice (that he'll likely keep ignoring due to being stubborn as hell.)

Considering how usually the color green is always associated with the Borg (in this universe), I found it hard to believe no on would have suspected it earlier when the anomaly showed up: especially Seven.

Judging from the previews for this season, we might be dipping into some "Voyage Home"-style time-traveling shenanigans.  Should be fun!

[dwmarch]

Yeah, green anomaly that multiple overlapping voices are coming out of and no one thinks Borg? Are we missing something here? Like for some reason Starfleet thought all the Borg were gone or something?

I appreciate that when security is called to the bridge they show up in force now. Having said that I must question why their phasers have to be so... jangly. Like they need to constantly make these clicky, weapony type sounds to remind you that this is a Space Gun from the Future set to Fuck Aliens Up. Watch that scene again with the security guards running down the hall. It's absurd how much noise their gear makes.

The new Stargazer is the coolest looking ugly ship I have ever seen. Apparently the Luna-class has been canonized in live action now as well which is super cool.

21 hours ago, millennium said:

Has Laris' appearance been modified since Season 1?  She looks a bit different.

I noticed that too. Never really thought much of her in season one (aside from getting a laugh out of her "cheeky fookers" line) but this season she is gorgeous.

It is good to know that you can avoid the Federation Penal Colony if you murder someone while under the influence of a mind-meld.

I agree with all who have noted that we did not need two characters aging up and telling the audience about it in case we were curious. Q can get away with it because as mentioned he was being a dick about it. But if Guinan hadn't have brought it up I would not have wondered.

4 hours ago, starri said:

They did give the authors the chance to build to a conclusion, however, called Coda.

I have read these novels and I do not recommend them. Spoilers (and a rant) for any who are curious:

Spoiler

After twenty years of building a vast, overlapping continuity between all the series (and adding a few new ones) Coda just burns it all the fuck down, killing off character after character in endless chapters of repetitive battle. The whole idea of "we have to destroy this (fictional) universe to save the (canon) universe" never needed to happen. There have already been plenty of Star Trek books contradicted by later canon and these were never an issue before. Star Trek has already built in the concept that various stories happen in various universes and Star Trek 2009 made that absolutely explicit. But Coda went and erased it all because Discovery and Picard and Lower Decks and Prodigy have no obligation to follow the novels (but will happily steal from them - see for example a DS9 novel called "Control", swagger-jacked years later by Discovery) and new novels will follow new canon. There was no need to destroy the novel universe and if they really wanted to they could have told a much more compelling story.

 

[Zonk]

Ugh, Picard's housekeeper being a love interest? No thanks. That was nauseating.

They had a hard time explaining why Guinan was so old. I guess they don't have the budget to deep fake her the whole time. Even Qs deep fake looked super jank for the 3 seconds it was there. Just look at his lips. At least there they explained it well. That's what I always said Q should do if they brought him back. Let him say something to the effect of "Oh I don't want you to feel bad about your advanced age the whole time, let me fix that" and then snap himself to John de Lancie's current age. Though the line they actually used in the episode was worse than mine. They completely missed an opportunity to show Q's playfull/sardonic side. Others here have mentioned that he was a dick about it, but I don't think he was enough of a dick about it. Btw. John de Lancie looks good.

I'm just worried they are going to character assasinate Q next, like they did with Picard and 7 last season. I'm holding out hope here, that it's a hidden ploy by Q to save the federation, packaged in the guise of continuing the trial, to sell it to his people. But these writers have shown time and time again that they don't get these old characters, at all. So that hope isn't very big.

This really would have benefited from a 3 episode release season opener, like a lot of streaming services have done recently. Because nothing happened until the last 5 minutes of the episode.

 

Nitpcks:

- When Picard told the crew to relax he said "Please, as you were.", the military lingo that would have been used in the old shows was "At ease.". Not a big deal, but seems to be another indicator that these writers don't know the old shows.

- Why is Picard giving the self destruct command when Rios is the captain? Makes no sense.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Zonk

[Delphi]

Loved this.   Much easier to dive into then season one,  don't know if it's because it's already set up or just better executed.   Not enough Elnor.

Like others though my biggest peeve is that like... Seven... you are Borg,   you don't recognize ominous green glows in space,  catch up. 

[Llywela]

Episode finally dropped on Prime 10am UK time, so at last I'm caught up. I really loved it. I love that it's been over a year and a half for them, too, so that everyone's stories have moved forward. I like where they are now. I loved seeing Rios as the proper Star Fleet captain he was always meant to be, before Oh's betrayal, and Raffi looking so content and fulfilled with her new role at the Academy, Elnor so happy to have joined Star Fleet, building a whole new life for himself that he could never even have hoped for while stuck on Vashti. Drunk Agnes was loads of fun, and I love that Seven has been bumped up to full cast member now.

Everything about this episode was just classic Star Trek and I loved it. 🙂

15 hours ago, MissLucas said:

This might be sacrilegious to admit but I would watch this show even without Picard. Especially without emo Picard.

Me too! I would totally watch a series that was just Stargazer with Captain Rios and his crew, being intrepid and exploring space. Maybe when this show finishes? Might be a bit too close to Strange New Worlds, perhaps, but I think there's room for both, and they have invested a lot of money in those lovely new sets, after all!

11 hours ago, greekmom said:

From the top I guess?!?!
1. Was the pairing of Beverly Crusher and Picard just swept under the rug?  Not that I am not liking the pairing of Laris and Picard but just saying. Why hasn't there been any mention of that?

2. I could have done without Guinan. Not a fan of Whoopi I'll be honest.  I think the heart to heart would have been done better with Troi but she's busy with Riker and their daughter.

3. Can't believe Agnes got off. UGH.

4. JOHN DELANCIE IS BACK!!!!! I missed you Q! The only thing I liked is how they deaged him and then reaged him to explain why he looks old. At least they did 1 thing right.

5. Please do not tell me that anyone was surprised on the Borg with the green space anomaly.  It's GREEN. That means BORG. Even without the 10 million teasers, trailers, etc. you still know it's Borg.  I would have agreed with Seven off the bat. The Borg do not negotiate. They do not broker peace. Frack. Picard should know that.

6. I did like what Seven did to all the Rio holograms. 

7. I did notice that Sir Pat Stew is doing what Cynthia Nixon did with the S&C revival. Making their character themselves with real life. It was never in ST cannon that Picard's mother was verbally or physically abused by Picard's father.  But here we are. 

Anyhoo....my Borg Queens only include Alice Krige and Susanna Thompson.  I don't recognize this crap that they are passing off as a Queen.

1. Picard and Beverly were never an actual pairing, on-screen. Through seven seasons of TNG they were portrayed as dear old friends who were attracted to each other, but always held back from an actual relationship, partly because the ghost of Beverly's dead husband always stood between them and partly because of Picard's commitment issues (which, yes, he's always had, it isn't new to this series). The TNG finale showed a possible future in which they had been married and then divorced, but that future never happened, as Picard changed the timeline. I don't remember the state of their relationship in the movies, but I don't think they were together there, either, it was Riker and Troi who married in the movies, and they are still together now. Basically, Beverly was always the love interest that never was, and was no doubt one of the not-quite relationships Picard alluded to in his conversation with Guinan.

I liked Laris with Zhaban, but his actor has been otherwise occupied, and I don't mind Laris being used to push Picard into examining another aspect of his psyche he has long repressed. That's what this show is all about, after all. I've seen people complaining about the age difference, but the actress is 60, she's older than Stewart's real life wife, and since Romulans are related to Vulcans, who live longer and age more slowly than humans, the character is probably older than Picard.

3. Star Trek has a long and storied history of recognising mental control as a valid defence, so Agnes being acquitted of a murder she only committed because of a traumatic forced mind meld is entirely in keeping with the history of the franchise. There is lots of precedent from previous shows.

4. Clearly not the only thing you liked, since you go on to describe liking something else. 😉

5. I strongly suspect we are going to learn that Picard made the wrong choice in that moment, that he should have listened to the Queen and heard her out instead of going for the self-destruct. A very valid fear, but this production team is interested in exploring new angles of old aliens and issues, which is valid. I also suspect that there are more green things out there than just Borg, and since we were explicitly told that the Borg have been effectively neutralised as a threat ever since the Voyager finale, there really wasn't any reason for anyone on-screen (who haven't had handy trailers to guide them 😉) to suspect them until there was.

6. I miss the other holos. Merging them seems a valid choice for Seven to make on the one hand, but on the other hand not so much, since they were all so distinct, and she spent years living and working alongside Voyager's holographic Doctor, who would have seen such an act as a violation.

7. Just because Picard never confronted those memories before doesn't mean the story is invalid. TNG didn't explore his past much, but it did show enough that what we saw here does not seem at all out of keeping with what we already knew of the repressed, repressive, damaged family he grew up in.

8. We haven't seen enough of this Borg Queen yet to know what is actually going on, so probably best to reserve judgement until we have more facts. This was just the start of the story.

8 hours ago, Frozendiva said:

Why did most of the rag-tag crew sign up for Starfleet. I did find it neat to see a Romulan go through Starfleet Academy.

Not all or even most of them. Only the ones for whom it makes perfect sense. Picard, Raffi and Rios never wanted to leave Starfleet in the first place, all three were forced out in difficult circumstances, which have since been resolved. Returning to Starfleet in various different capacities gives all three of them a chance to heal those old wounds. And for Elnor, it is the perfect choice to make for a young man searching for his place in the universe, who has had such strong examples before him. 

4 hours ago, dwmarch said:

Yeah, green anomaly that multiple overlapping voices are coming out of and no one thinks Borg? Are we missing something here? Like for some reason Starfleet thought all the Borg were gone or something?

It is good to know that you can avoid the Federation Penal Colony if you murder someone while under the influence of a mind-meld.

 

Yes, Agnes stated on screen that the Borg were believed to no longer be a threat (at least not en masse) after the events of the Voyager finale, which devastated them.

Being under the influence of a mind meld is a valid defence in Star Trek and always has been, there is lots of precedent. It would have been more shocking if she'd been convicted, in the circumstances, when so many others have been let off because the alien control over their mind was understood. I mean, Picard as Locutus murdered thousands, but faced no charges because he was not in control of his mind or body. So too Agnes was not in full control of herself when she killed Maddox, because of what was done to her. It is an entirely Star Trek defence.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Llywela

[cambridgeguy]

11 hours ago, greekmom said:

I would have agreed with Seven off the bat.

Now she knows how Worf feels.  Picard and the rest of the TNG crew were always ignoring his suggestions to be more proactive.  Even after the Dominion War it looks like Starfleet is still opposed to firing first.

It was really cool to see a variety of Starfleet ships this time instead of the copy and paste fleet Riker had in last season's finale.

4 hours ago, Zonk said:

- Why is Picard giving the self destruct command when Rios is the captain? Makes no sense

Picard has special powers - that's what happens when you're name is in the title.  But I agree - I could see Rios asking him for the OK, but he should be the one executing the command. 

If Rios ends up remembering this then he needs to have a little talk with his security crew - he ordered them to stop firing and they ignored him.

Edited March 4, 2022 by cambridgeguy

[greekmom]

5 hours ago, dwmarch said:

Yeah, green anomaly that multiple overlapping voices are coming out of and no one thinks Borg? Are we missing something here? Like for some reason Starfleet thought all the Borg were gone or something?

 

Exactly.  Plus the "Queen" (forever in my posts with quotes as she sucks) looks like something pulled from Kim Kardashian's Met Gala outfit and purchased at some S&M store in Hollywood. 

Further, Seven couldn't do without the crew on Voyager when they were all in stasis in the episode One. So we are ok now that she's fine all alone on Rio's ship ? Please do not include the fact there is a hologram on board because it doesn't seem that he's being utilized as much as the Doctor was in Voyager. 

I just find they are reaching.

[Llywela]

12 minutes ago, greekmom said:

Further, Seven couldn't do without the crew on Voyager when they were all in stasis in the episode One. So we are ok now that she's fine all alone on Rio's ship ? Please do not include the fact there is a hologram on board because it doesn't seem that he's being utilized as much as the Doctor was in Voyager. 

That was 20+ years ago, when she was newly severed from the Collective. She has matured and developed since then, which is as it should be - if she was stuck in exactly the same place she was back then, then we really would have something to complain about. Her life has moved forward, she has had a lot of new and different experiences, which have changed her. That is completely realistic. Also, she isn't alone all the time - she works with the Fenris Rangers, which means she is in regular contact with people. She just doesn't keep a crew on La Sirena because she sees no need of one, at this point in her life, having learned to be comfortable with her own company. The hologram is enough for her - which is in keeping with her history of friendship with the Doctor, in fact. Her previous Ranger ship was also a one-man vessel.

Also, it is Rios, not Rio.

I thought this was an excellent episode of Star Trek, gripping and entertaining. I'm looking forward to the rest of the season.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Llywela

[Good Queen Jane]

17 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Going to make a bold prediction now: Picad will meet her in the alternative timeline and not make a mess of things and then in the end he has to give her up in order to restore the timeline.

But ST:TOS already did that plot line in what is considered one of the best episodes of the series. Surely they wouldn't recycle stories! 😉

[paigow]

16 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

But ST:TOS already did that plot line in what is considered one of the best episodes of the series. Surely they wouldn't recycle stories! 😉

[paigow]

6 hours ago, Zonk said:

Ugh, Picard's housekeeper being a love interest? No thanks. That was nauseating.

- Why is Picard giving the self destruct command when Rios is the captain? Makes no sense.

Actually she is more like bodyguard / ops master... more a Romulan Alfred than Alice [Brady Bunch for the kids reading this]

Also, who set the Self Destruct default to 10 seconds???!!! Even First Contact!Picard tried to evacuate the crew. No time to change your mind...  

Edited March 4, 2022 by paigow

[jcin617]

Just going to go out on a limb and guess that the reason for the "Borg Queen's" No-Face-Showing costume was because it's A Surprise of some kind.

[Zaffy]

Absolutely loved it!
So the magic potion from the movie "Death becomes her" is real and Jeri Ryan has had some of it. Right?

Mon capitaine!!  😃

[salaydouk]

8 hours ago, Zonk said:

Nitpcks:

- When Picard told the crew to relax he said "Please, as you were.", the military lingo that would have been used in the old shows was "At ease.". Not a big deal, but seems to be another indicator that these writers don't know the old shows.

- Why is Picard giving the self destruct command when Rios is the captain? Makes no sense.

I believe the usage of the order "As you were" was correct. Picards intention was to tell the crew forget he is on the bridge and to go back to what they were doing before they stood at attention due to his arrival on the bridge - therefore the order required is "as you were." If he had used the order "At ease" the crew would have no longer had to stand at attention, but they would have continue to stand but with a more relaxed posture while still doing absolutely nothing.  I totally agree with you that Picard issuing the self-destruct sequence makes no sense.  Regardless of Picard being the ranking officer and/or the "leader of the mission", Rios is the captain of the ship, and short of his being relieved of duty, he would be the only one to initate the self-destruct order. And it is odd that this mistake would show up here becuase this exact issue of Mission Leader/Ship's Captain the the differentiation in roles was specifically brought up in last week's Discovery episode.  

With everyone saying if it is "Green it is Borg", I just have to say that if we weren't in the Prime Universe, I think I would have screamed Romulan instead.  🙃  That said, I totally agree Green + Subspace Rift + Signal with Thousands of Voices  = Borg.   Totally don't understand why Seven didn't get it right away.  I also don't get why they were arguing at all over whether or not to play nice with the Borg. Makes no sense regardless of the power status of the Borg they are a mortal enemy... blow them up.   

Random aside, I just loved the Rios' facial change before and after the Booming Borg voice - priceless.

[benteen]

Really good episode.  Definitely a step up from the previous season.  It's great to have thos show back and to see the bridge of a 24th century (25th century now I think) starship again.

Having a new Stargazer is great and it works as a look at Picard's entire life 

Never trust the Borg but the idea of them wanting to join the Federation is an intriguing one if it is ever pursued.

Really nice seen with Guinan but the return of John DeLancie as Q was what I wanted to see the most and it delivered.  JD see to have slipped back into the character more easily than Patrick Stewart has with Picard.  This is a more manovlent Q it looks like and I can totally see him altering his appearance like that to fit in with Picard.  

While it's nice to get a deeper look at Picard past, I don't like the domestic violence angle they seem to be pursuing.  I don't think it fits with Picard's history or with Star Trek itself.  I think his issued with relationships has more to do with his attachment to his career and duty than to some long-repressed drama.  It goes back to something I've felt has been a problem with this show from the beginning.  I feel I'm too often watching Patrick Stewart play Picard as opposed to actually seeing the Picard character.

That being said, TNG long established that Picard had a difficult relationship with his father.  If that representation of his father that Q confronted him with in Tapestry is any indication, Maurice Picard was a real bastard.

Nice to see the rest of the characters again.

Looking forward to the rest of the season.

[retired watcher]

10 hours ago, Zonk said:

Ugh, Picard's housekeeper being a love interest? No thanks. That was nauseating.

They had a hard time explaining why Guinan was so old. I guess they don't have the budget to deep fake her the whole time. Even Qs deep fake looked super jank for the 3 seconds it was there. Just look at his lips. At least there they explained it well. That's what I always said Q should do if they brought him back. Let him say something to the effect of "Oh I don't want you to feel bad about your advanced age the whole time, let me fix that" and then snap himself to John de Lancie's current age. Though the line they actually used in the episode was worse than mine. They completely missed an opportunity to show Q's playfull/sardonic side. Others here have mentioned that he was a dick about it, but I don't think he was enough of a dick about it. Btw. John de Lancie looks good.

I'm just worried they are going to character assasinate Q next, like they did with Picard and 7 last season. I'm holding out hope here, that it's a hidden ploy by Q to save the federation, packaged in the guise of continuing the trial, to sell it to his people. But these writers have shown time and time again that they don't get these old characters, at all. So that hope isn't very big.

This really would have benefited from a 3 episode release season opener, like a lot of streaming services have done recently. Because nothing happened until the last 5 minutes of the episode.

 

Nitpcks:

- When Picard told the crew to relax he said "Please, as you were.", the military lingo that would have been used in the old shows was "At ease.". Not a big deal, but seems to be another indicator that these writers don't know the old shows.

- Why is Picard giving the self destruct command when Rios is the captain? Makes no sense.

Rios gave way as Picard was highest rank on board.

[salaydouk]

45 minutes ago, retired watcher said:

Rios gave way as Picard was highest rank on board.

Would never happen.  Starfleet, at most, gave Picard the role of Mission Leader - he was not given command of the Stargazer. Picard's role was to the mission.  Rios is the Stargazer's Captain and the responsibility for the safety and security of the ship and her crew belong to him and him alone.   Regarding how to complete the mission Rios would defer to Picard, but the moment Picard's mission choices adversely affects the ship/crew and/or the working conditions change(ie enemy opens fire) Rios becomes the man in control and can determine if the mission was still possible to complete and would not defer to anyone.   The self destruct command could _only_ come from Rios.

Edited March 4, 2022 by salaydouk

[MissLucas]

Picard giving the command to self-destruct highlights exactly why I'm not a fan of this iteration of the character. Too often the writing focuses on him without regards to plot logic or other characters.

Edited March 4, 2022 by MissLucas

[paigow]

There are few people worse than J.J. Abrams when it comes to dealing with franchise canon... Akiva Goldsman is one of them

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

Picard giving the command to self-destruct highlights exactly why I'm not a fan of this iteration of the character. Too often the writing focuses on him without regards to plot logic or other characters.

I do agree with this. It is always a problem with any show that centres itself around one individual it sees as the ultimate hero - they suck all the focus out of every scene and every event, everything has to be about them and no one else is allowed to be heroic or have the moments of authority that belong to them by right, in case we the audience forget who the show is about.

I prefer a true ensemble, any day.

This show has usually been at least reasonably good in that regard. Everything is always about Picard and the rest of the cast haven't been nearly developed enough, but season one always remembered that La Sirena was Rios's ship and whenever Picard automatically tried to take charge there was always a moment where he remembered to defer to Rios, and those moments were very revealing of how patient Rios is by nature. But Picard being the one to order auto-destruct on a ship he'd never even visited before (and only a 10 second warning! No time to even try to evacuate!) did come across as the writers wanting this moment to be about Picard even though logically it shouldn't be. Even if it was a specific high power admiral command, why would Picard even have such a thing when he isn't really in active service anymore?

I would genuinely love to see a Stargazer show that allowed Rios to shine as captain in his own right, instead of always standing in the shadow of that revered old admiral hanging over his shoulder.

In other thoughts, I really liked the little glimpse we were given of the friendship Agnes and Soji have formed, and I enjoyed how comfortable Soji seems in her synthetic skin now.

[Chit Chat]

On 3/3/2022 at 3:24 AM, millennium said:

How is it Seven of Nine is even more attractive now than on Voyager?

She's aging well, and they don't have her in a super skin-tight catsuit where all the focus was on her boobs.  Now you pay attention to her face!!    The darker clothes and the badass attitude suit her.   They don't have to try so hard and force her stunning figure on us!!  We see it!!  She's beautiful!  I'm glad she's on the show.  I like the way they wrote her character.  

As far as Picard ordering the self-destruct so quickly, he knows they're up shit's creek without a paddle.  When it comes to the Borg, I'd rather die in a quick explosion rather than floating out there in an escape pod waiting for them to come and get me.  Shudders at the thought!

I appreciated that Will Wheaton (in the Ready Room podcast) wore a suit and tie for Sir Patrick Stewart.  Respect!!  

 

[tennisgurl]

Yeah, everyone's Borg senses really should have been tingling just about instantly. Green glowing, creepy voices all speaking in unison, want to talk to Picard, who else would it be exactly? 

Seems like a strong start to the season, dropping a lot of information about what has been going on since we last saw the gang while also setting up what is going on for this season, which seems quite promising. Everything seems to be going well, everyone is more or less back with Starfleet, everyone seems to be in a better place...and then the Borg shows up, and then Q! I loved Picards "oh damn it its Q" reaction to him showing up, he's getting way too old for this shit. Looks like we are heading for some "future characters mess about in the present" stories, which are often a lot of fun, I am excited to see where this goes and what this new universe is like. I wonder if it will end up with some multiverse complications, accidently crashing into the Mirror Universe or the Kelvin Timeline. Maybe Picard should take a cue from Sisko and punch him in the face? If nothing else, it would probably make him feel better. 

Nice seeing Guinan again, and I am glad that the show acknowledged Guinan and Q clearly aging and gave it an explanation, even if it was obvious handwave to explain the actors being obviously older. 

I would watch a whole side show about Elnor being the first full Romulan to join Starfleet Academy. Maybe he can run into a grown up Nog and he can give him some advice about being the first member of their species to join Starfleet? 

[Chit Chat]

6 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Green glowing, creepy voices all speaking in unison, want to talk to Picard, who else would it be exactly? 

Our first thought was that did no one even consider this could be a trap?   That seemed dumb.  

[cambridgeguy]

38 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I would watch a whole side show about Elnor being the first full Romulan to join Starfleet Academy. Maybe he can run into a grown up Nog and he can give him some advice about being the first member of their species to join Starfleet? 

Too bad that would have to happen offscreen since Aron Eisenberg passed away a few years ago.  Now Worf, on the other hand, could appear and given how he's less than fond of Romulans (those sneaky dishonorable bastards!) it would be quite the meeting.

[j5cochran]

How long does it take to graduate from Starfleet Academy? If I understand the timeline, Elnor has been there for a year and a half, but he's graduating and being sent off to his first shipboard assignment. I would have expected three or four years as a typical course of study.

[salaydouk]

1 minute ago, j5cochran said:

How long does it take to graduate from Starfleet Academy? If I understand the timeline, Elnor has been there for a year and a half, but he's graduating and being sent off to his first shipboard assignment. I would have expected three or four years as a typical course of study.

Normal course of study at US military acadamies is about four years,  but the majority of the summers are still spent in non-academic military training.  Using the US Naval Academy as probably the best analogy, after they first year Midshipmen/women do have a "sea assignment"  in and around New England and after their second year they do have a 4 week "sea assignment" on a surface vessel or sub. 

So it is likely that Elnor is still a cadet and not yet a graduate. And a shipboard assignment as a cadet after 1-1.5 years of study is about right.

 

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, j5cochran said:

How long does it take to graduate from Starfleet Academy? If I understand the timeline, Elnor has been there for a year and a half, but he's graduating and being sent off to his first shipboard assignment. I would have expected three or four years as a typical course of study.

When he started his first combat training exercise with 'please my friend, choose to live' they decided he could skip those  🤷‍♂️

[marinw]

As a fan, I am serviced!😀I really enjoyed this episode.

I thought the Chateau Picard home was different than the house in "Family". Yet ths attrium/greenhouse was still there. I could have done without the domestic violence subplot. The idea of the Borg negotiation is almost funny.

Could everyone please lay off Picard for never marrying or whatever? A lot of people (myself included) LIKE being single. Why is this even an issue in the almost 25th Century?

Edited March 5, 2022 by marinw

[norcalgal]

16 hours ago, Zonk said:

Ugh, Picard's housekeeper being a love interest? No thanks. 
Agree, pass for me too. 

- Why is Picard giving the self destruct command when Rios is the captain? Makes no sense.

Not only that, but it no longer requires the command authorization from more than one senior command officer to activate the self destruct?!?! 

14 hours ago, Delphi said:

Loved this.   Much easier to dive into then season one,  don't know if it's because it's already set up or just better executed.   Not enough Elnor.

Disagree on the first part, but agree about Elnor. 

12 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

 

It was really cool to see a variety of Starfleet ships this time instead of the copy and paste fleet Riker had in last season's finale.

Yes, loved seeing the new ship, and the Stargazer is a beauty!

If Rios ends up remembering this then he needs to have a little talk with his security crew - he ordered them to stop firing and they ignored him.

Yeah, I just couldn’t believe the crew members disobeyed a direct order from the ship’s captain!!!  Tsk, tsk Starfleet what has happened to training and discipline?

12 hours ago, Llywela said:

 

I thought this was an excellent episode of Star Trek, gripping and entertaining. I'm looking forward to the rest of the season.

UO: there wasn’t much I enjoyed about this episode: seeing the Stargazer, Q and Elnor was all I liked. 

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

 

I would watch a whole side show about Elnor being the first full Romulan to join Starfleet Academy. Maybe he can run into a grown up Nog and he can give him some advice about being the first member of their species to join Starfleet? 

Yeah, I for sure would watch such a series, but as someone else posted, unfortunately the actor who portrayed Nog has passed away…