S11.E04: Episode 4

[OtterMommy]

Description: TBD

UK Air date: January 23, 2022

[MissLucas]

The rare no-hankies required episode for me, YMMV. The writing seemed a bit off with certain plots. As much as I like Nancy I think she's too young to hand out so many pearls of wisdom. It would be okay once in a while but she's already done that in the episode with Miss Higgins as Nonnatus house guest.

I thought it odd that Trixie who's an experienced nurse and midwife had never heard of the post-natal center Sister Julienne talked about. Clearly the plot was meant to illustrate advances in the care of new mothers and their babies. I had to think of the mother who struggled breastfeeding and Sister Evangelina's tough love approach that did not work (one of my favorite episodes). The actress playing Mrs Cawder did a fantastic job. But I missed a scene between her and her sister  -  the sister was just around in their last scene together (being supportive at least). But there was so much build up to that strained relationship that it was strange we never got to see a scene where all the unspoken tension between them was at least addressed. I wish they had given that plot more breathing space instead of another bumbling Fred plot as comic relief.

The Rosens plot was fine (even if it was a bit predictable). However Sister Hilda talking about identity when suggesting the Bar Mitzvah was a bit of anachronistic writing. The argument presented was certainly not anachronistic but the language was. I loved that beautiful Morris-inspired wallpaper in their apartment even though it was clearly meant to indicate how old-fashioned their lodgings were. And we got another bit of backstory for Sister Hilda - never a bad thing. I was a bit baffled by the fox fur coat (that looked more like mink to me). I had not known that black foxes exist - live and learn. But they seem to be very rare in the UK (and Europe), so I'm still giving that coat a bit of a side-eye.

Lucille and Cyril's plot worked best for me since the writing did address that they both have to face everyday racism. And I also liked how they were both able to communicate to each other their worries about having a baby at this stage in their marriage. 

[Badger]

I'm thinking that either Lucille is going to have a stillborn baby which could tie into the abortion debate or she is going to have more than one baby.

Is there any significance to the fact that Matthew has never addressed Trixie by her name?  

[bybrandy]

I don't remember Nancy giving out any pearls of wisdom this episode.  I don't doubt she did but I don't remember it.  I barely remember Nancy being in this episode, which given she was heavily featured last week made sense to me.

I liked the Rosen family plot a lot no real surprises but I liked seeing a bit of Hilda's back story (small bit though it was) and I like that we saw her being so respectful and interested in the family ceremonies.   Basically I just really, really, like sister Hilda.  I was curious though if going through with the ceremony made Mr. Rosen accept himself more and allowed poor little Joel Rosen escape being called George (no disrespect to people who like the name George more than I do) 

When we met the twin sisters with three tiny babies between them I was certain that one of those sisters was going to end up with all three by the end of the episode and kept waiting for the sister who had it so easily to have a piano dropped on her head or something to completely overwhelm the other one.  The plot we had was more real but I felt like it was missing a scene where sister who everything came easy to confessed that it wasn't as easy or being upset that her sister didn't trust her enough to confide in her.  

I don't understand Fred's plot at all.  I might have missed something?   I don't understand why he couldn't tell Violet the freezer was broken.  I don't understand why he gave away all the frozen treats rather than having a pre-liquidation (hee, hee) sale.  It was HOT.  He'd have gotten some sales.  And I don't understand why when he was caught he didn't stand up for himself that everything was melting and he needed to get rid of it and what did she want to have to throw out a bit of soupy  grossness from the bottom of the broken freezer?  I'd have skipped this plot. 
  
It feels really, really early to saddle Lucille and Cyrril with a baby and hope this isn't their exit arch.  I like them.  

I don't feel like we've gotten a lot of Trixie and the little bits that we've gotten she's seemed so, so, so over living in a communal living situation. She doesn't seem to get to have any fun anymore and even when we're supposed to see her as a more grown up doesn't need glamour and is ready to settle down into to domestic bliss with a kid and without any fun?   Um, I'd rather Tom come back and have them give it another go now that he has had plenty of time to mourn.  I mean that absolutely isn't the plot I'd pick for Trixie at all.  But after me waiting for Matthew to be ready to date we see her on a couple of kid dates and don't get to see her at all on their non kid date.

I've felt that Matthew was Trixie's exit storyline since it started last season and I was feeling it between them last season but this episode I just didn't feel anything at all.  I'm going to feel sad when they ship Trixie off into a relationship with no heat or romance.  So i hope the romance heats up or I hope that poor Trixie realizes it is bland and moves on.   

 

[MissLucas]

22 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

I don't remember Nancy giving out any pearls of wisdom this episode.  I don't doubt she did but I don't remember it.  

 

She gave HotWidower dating advice, calling him 'Prince Charming'.

I'm also worried about Lucille and Cyril.

[LadyChaos]

Honestly, given how much trouble Nancy caused laster season...she should be keeping her advice to herself.

[EllaWycliffe]

<snark> I think its great that Matthew is so open minded about Trixie being so obviously knocked up with another guy's baby!</snark>

[Badger]

I think that part of the problem was that Matthew was sort of judging Trixie by the kind of woman Fiona was.  Fiona was perfectly happy to leave her job and become a SAHM and she loved having a man to take care of.   Packing a picnic and spending time with her husband and their baby would have been right up her alley.

That's not who Trixie is.  I think she wanted to be courted and to be seen on her own terms.   The scene where he comes to pick her up and he's just staring at her was probably the first time he's actually seen her.

There were a few minor cuts I recall.  In the very beginning, the nuns and midwives are complaining about the heat.  Sister Monica Joan quotes something and Sister Frances asks her if it's from "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner" to which Sr. Monica Joan answers "Poor child, the heat must have addled thee."

The scene where Lucille starts crying when she is with Phyllis started out with a bunch of people dressed in shorts and sandals.  Phyllis doesn't like seeing all that pasty white flesh and says they should put it away.  Then Lucille cries.

There is a short scene of Sammy Rosen getting his X ray and looking very apprehensive.

 

[Sarah 103]

On 1/24/2022 at 7:58 AM, Badger said:

I'm thinking that either Lucille is going to have a stillborn baby which could tie into the abortion debate or she is going to have more than one baby.

I am confused. In that time and place, and especially with Lucille's religious background/beliefs, why would anyone think that a stillborn would be anything other than a pregnancy gone horribly wrong? I can't imagine anyone in Poplar thinking/suspecting an abortion as thier first thought. 

On 1/24/2022 at 9:26 AM, bybrandy said:

The plot we had was more real but I felt like it was missing a scene where sister who everything came easy to confessed that it wasn't as easy or being upset that her sister didn't trust her enough to confide in her.  

I agree. Especially since it seems thier mother was the one who set the sisters against each other and the older sister didn't have an issue. The younger twin deeply resented the older one because of what thier mother did, not because of what the twin did. It seems like the older twin was kind of oblivious and didn't realize there was a problem. It would have been great to have a scene where the sisters had a heart to heart and started to fix the relationship. 

On 1/24/2022 at 9:26 AM, bybrandy said:

I don't understand Fred's plot at all.  I might have missed something?   I don't understand why he couldn't tell Violet the freezer was broken.  I don't understand why he gave away all the frozen treats rather than having a pre-liquidation (hee, hee) sale.  It was HOT.  He'd have gotten some sales.  And I don't understand why when he was caught he didn't stand up for himself that everything was melting and he needed to get rid of it and what did she want to have to throw out a bit of soupy  grossness from the bottom of the broken freezer?  I'd have skipped this plot. 

This was a plot running on pure TVLand logic. Violet said he had to get rid of them, but she didn't say how. It's the old "your exact words were ____" storyline. He gave them away because he didn't think he would be able to sell them all before they completely melted and to win the bet, he had to empty the freezer, but not necessarily sell them all. With that said, I'm with you. I wished they had skipped this plot and spent more time with the sisters. 

When Mr. Rosen first said he had TB even though it wasn't in Dr. Turner's notes, my first thought was that Mr. Rosen was a Holocaust survivor, then I started to second guess myself based on what year the episode was set in, but since I can't really do math, I was right the first time. I thought Mr. Rosen's illness was going to be psychsomatic and almost impossible to treat. I'm glad they found out it was an actual treatable medical condition. If I understand the conclusion correctly, Mr. Rosen will move into management/some other part of the business and a new person will take over working with the furs day to day. 

The argument about honoring family/religion and assimilation playing out in what to name the baby was difficult because there were strong and valid arguments from the mother and the father. 

[Daff]

6 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

then I started to second guess myself based on what year the episode was set in, but since I can't really do math, I was right the first time.

Recovery from the effects of WW2 took far, far longer in England, for a number of reasons, and greater numbers of traumatized refugees were there. I remember my surprise to find out how long after the end of the war: rationing continued, unexploded bombs were discovered, and large areas of rubble remained untouched (the final two, being related, I assume). 

As for Lucille’s pregnancy, I worry very much that all will not go well, for the simple fact that oral contraceptives of the time delivered such high levels of estrogen. 

[Daff]

The plight of the twin sisters was all too vague for me. What kind of care was the younger one getting, to allow mastitis to progress that far? I can’t believe she could pass off all that inflammation and pain as “the process takes time and practice.” Not to mention the baby is starving and constantly hungry! And no nurse or doctor thought to look at her breasts/check for mastitis?  If I thought early in the episode of mastitis, surely one of them should have. They also never even mentioned postpartum depression (does it matter which came first)? She must have been in agony.

[proserpina65]

On 1/24/2022 at 9:26 AM, bybrandy said:

I liked the Rosen family plot a lot no real surprises but I liked seeing a bit of Hilda's back story (small bit though it was) and I like that we saw her being so respectful and interested in the family ceremonies.   Basically I just really, really, like sister Hilda.  I was curious though if going through with the ceremony made Mr. Rosen accept himself more and allowed poor little Joel Rosen escape being called George (no disrespect to people who like the name George more than I do) 

I agree with you.  This was the star plot of this episode for me.  I always enjoy seeing little tidbits of Sister Hilda's story.  And yes, Joel is a better name than George, imo.  Nowadays it wouldn't even be considered a Hebrew name necessarily; interesting that it still was then.  Given Mr. Rosen's background, I completely understand wanting his son to have an English name, though.

On 1/24/2022 at 9:26 AM, bybrandy said:

Um, I'd rather Tom come back and have them give it another go now that he has had plenty of time to mourn.

Oh god, no.  Tom and Trixie were 100% not suited for each other.  I like Matthew for her, although I'd have liked that story line to have played out a little slower but I think Helen George's pregnancy played a big part in it being accelerated.

 

[dubbel zout]

9 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

my first thought was that Mr. Rosen was a Holocaust survivor

As soon as he said he was from Poland, I knew he was a survivor.

2 hours ago, Daff said:

I remember my surprise to find out how long after the end of the war: rationing continued

Same. Rationing officially ended in 1954, but that doesn't mean food was immediately abundantly available. It took time to get things back up and running.

[libgirl2]

On 1/24/2022 at 6:39 AM, MissLucas said:

The rare no-hankies required episode for me, YMMV. The writing seemed a bit off with certain plots. As much as I like Nancy I think she's too young to hand out so many pearls of wisdom. It would be okay once in a while but she's already done that in the episode with Miss Higgins as Nonnatus house guest.

I thought it odd that Trixie who's an experienced nurse and midwife had never heard of the post-natal center Sister Julienne talked about. Clearly the plot was meant to illustrate advances in the care of new mothers and their babies. I had to think of the mother who struggled breastfeeding and Sister Evangelina's tough love approach that did not work (one of my favorite episodes). The actress playing Mrs Cawder did a fantastic job. But I missed a scene between her and her sister  -  the sister was just around in their last scene together (being supportive at least). But there was so much build up to that strained relationship that it was strange we never got to see a scene where all the unspoken tension between them was at least addressed. I wish they had given that plot more breathing space instead of another bumbling Fred plot as comic relief.

The Rosens plot was fine (even if it was a bit predictable). However Sister Hilda talking about identity when suggesting the Bar Mitzvah was a bit of anachronistic writing. The argument presented was certainly not anachronistic but the language was. I loved that beautiful Morris-inspired wallpaper in their apartment even though it was clearly meant to indicate how old-fashioned their lodgings were. And we got another bit of backstory for Sister Hilda - never a bad thing. I was a bit baffled by the fox fur coat (that looked more like mink to me). I had not known that black foxes exist - live and learn. But they seem to be very rare in the UK (and Europe), so I'm still giving that coat a bit of a side-eye.

Lucille and Cyril's plot worked best for me since the writing did address that they both have to face everyday racism. And I also liked how they were both able to communicate to each other their worries about having a baby at this stage in their marriage. 

I teared up with the Bar Mitzvah. 

[ShelleySue]

On 1/24/2022 at 9:26 AM, bybrandy said:

I don't remember Nancy giving out any pearls of wisdom this episode.  I don't doubt she did but I don't remember it.  I barely remember Nancy being in this episode, which given she was heavily featured last week made sense to me.

I've watched this series from the beginning and every time they bring in a new nurse or nun I think I'm not goin got like her and I end up loving her.  The exception is Nancy.  For some reason I just can't warm up to her.

 

On 1/24/2022 at 9:26 AM, bybrandy said:

liked the Rosen family plot a lot no real surprises but I liked seeing a bit of Hilda's back story (small bit though it was) and I like that we saw her being so respectful and interested in the family ceremonies.   Basically I just really, really, like sister Hilda.  I was curious though if going through with the ceremony made Mr. Rosen accept himself more and allowed poor little Joel Rosen escape being called George (no disrespect to people who like the name George more than I do) 

I don't know how it is for other immigrants, but my grandparents and their siblings all had multiple names.  They were Jewish from Ukraine and Lithuania.  They had Hebrew and Yiddish names and then their parents gave them names that their parents thought were American/Canadian names.  But my some of my grandparents' siblings thought those names were too Jewish or old world. For example my grandmother was Chana (Hannah) but everyone called her Annie.  Her brother was Avrum and his parents thought his "American" sounding name should be Abraham/Abe, but he went by Al.

[EllaWycliffe]

9 minutes ago, ShelleySue said:

've watched this series from the beginning and every time they bring in a new nurse or nun I think I'm not goin got like her and I end up loving her.  The exception is Nancy.  For some reason I just can't warm up to her.

It has taken me longer with Nancy simply because I think they kinda piled too much implausible nonsense onto the character - I'm sorry, maybe I am just believing the Protestant propaganda but I just can't believe an orphan raised in a nunnery who got knocked up at 16 or so was gently guided by the nuns into being productive with a good education. Everything I know about teen pregnancy in the 1960s tells me Nancy would have gotten her ass kicked to the curb and that baby ripped from her stupid teen mom arms and given to a nice family like the Turners. 

Nancy is a little overly "plucky street wise survivor" with few ill effects. But I do like her cheeriness and I somehow like and wish she and Sister Francis did more together - two bubbly young women doing good things.

I hate to be cynical but I knew as soon as I heard the names that we were getting a Holocaust plot. But I am a sucker for Holocaust plots so there's that. I did like the reveal on Sister Hilda's life... that she was from a background where one had fox fur coats. 

[libgirl2]

10 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I hate to be cynical but I knew as soon as I heard the names that we were getting a Holocaust plot. But I am a sucker for Holocaust plots so there's that. I did like the reveal on Sister Hilda's life... that she was from a background where one had fox fur coats. 

I feel the same about Sr. Hilda. I would like to know more. 

[kwnyc]

On 1/24/2022 at 7:39 AM, MissLucas said:

As much as I like Nancy I think she's too young to hand out so many pearls of wisdom.

But she's the only young, single nurse (that we know of), so she had to be the Exposition Fairy there. And they are showing her as being aggressively Irish, so she just has to comment on everything.

Sister Hilda's chance to shine was lovely this week. She and sister Frances sow that the next generation of Nonnatus House nuns are going to be fine (though maybe it's the HD TV, but I keep thinking how OLD Phyllis and Miss Higgins look...and even Dr. Turner is aging.) Dammit, shows that run 10 years or more with live actors really show that Time Marches On.

Also, it was hilarious to see all the things they were hiding Trixie behind. Though the gorgeous dress she greeted Prince Charming in was stunning.

[libgirl2]

37 minutes ago, kwnyc said:

But she's the only young, single nurse (that we know of), so she had to be the Exposition Fairy there. And they are showing her as being aggressively Irish, so she just has to comment on everything.

Sister Hilda's chance to shine was lovely this week. She and sister Frances sow that the next generation of Nonnatus House nuns are going to be fine (though maybe it's the HD TV, but I keep thinking how OLD Phyllis and Miss Higgins look...and even Dr. Turner is aging.) Dammit, shows that run 10 years or more with live actors really show that Time Marches On.

Also, it was hilarious to see all the things they were hiding Trixie behind. Though the gorgeous dress she greeted Prince Charming in was stunning.

I liked the stack of chairs! 

[Sarah 103]

5 hours ago, Daff said:

Recovery from the effects of WW2 took far, far longer in England, for a number of reasons, and greater numbers of traumatized refugees were there.

I didn't mean things like rationing, or the number of regugees or how long it took England to rebuild. I meant whether or not Mr. Rosen was old enough to be a Holocaust survivor.  (This was where my inability to do basic math and correctly guess the character's age became an issue.)

1 hour ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I hate to be cynical but I knew as soon as I heard the names that we were getting a Holocaust plot. But I am a sucker for Holocaust plots so there's that. 

As soon as I saw the name and that they were furriers, I knew they were Jewish, but I didn't immediately think it was going to be a Holocaust plot. I'm willing to bet this was the first time Mrs. Rosen heard her husband's story. He seems like the type who wouldn't want to dwell on it and would want to move on with his life and start over. He probably told his wife his family died in a concentration camp, but no more than that. I thought the show did an excellent job of showing how the trauma impacted not only the generation that survived it but also how they raised the next generation.

4 hours ago, Daff said:

The plight of the twin sisters was all too vague for me. What kind of care was the younger one getting, to allow mastitis to progress that far? I can’t believe she could pass off all that inflammation and pain as “the process takes time and practice.” Not to mention the baby is starving and constantly hungry! And no nurse or doctor thought to look at her breasts/check for mastitis?  If I thought early in the episode of mastitis, surely one of them should have. They also never even mentioned postpartum depression (does it matter which came first)? She must have been in agony.

Was postpartum depression something that was known? Was that something they would have thought of? Overall, I'm with you. Even if she didn't directly seek help, I would thought they would have discovered the baby wasn't gaining weight or there was something wrong with the mother's breasts during a routine postpartum check-up. 

 

[caitmcg]

13 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

I didn't mean things like rationing, or the number of regugees or how long it took England to rebuild. I meant whether or not Mr. Rosen was old enough to be a Holocaust survivor.  (This was where my inability to do basic math and correctly guess the character's age became an issue.)

He would be near 40 in 1967, given he said he was a young teen, which is plausible, though the actor looked younger to me.

[dubbel zout]

44 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

Was postpartum depression something that was known? Was that something they would have thought of?

It used to be called the baby blues, and of course since it affected women only, wasn't taken seriously by the majority of the medical establishment. "This will pass," never mind suffering in the meantime.

But of course the midwives and Dr. Turner know about it and can treat it.

[AZChristian]

19 minutes ago, caitmcg said:

He would be near 40 in 1967, given he said he was a young teen, which is plausible, though the actor looked younger to me.

He said he was 13, but looked older.  If he was taken early in the Polish occupation, he would be about 38 during the time of the CTM episode.  I think he looked around that age.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, kwnyc said:

it was hilarious to see all the things they were hiding Trixie behind.

Using Matthew's shoulder when she was in the doorframe was particularly clever, I thought.

The sisters' story wasn't well told, IMO. I don't know if some exposition scenes were edited out or it didn't have enough time (or both), but it came across to me as a younger sister resenting her eldersister for things her sister isn't responsible for, and I find that tedious. (I get it, but I still find it tedious.)

The bris made me remember the "Cheers" episode where Frederick was circumcised. Frasier comes out of the back room with Frederick in his arms and says, "It's okay, baby," and then we see Sam carrying Lilith saying the same thing. Hee.

I found the Jewish couple's story very moving. (FYI, I'm as goy as they come—über-shiksa has been used to describe me.) The husband can't ever feel secure again—who can blame him? The wife can see that but doesn't want it to affect their son. Also understandable.

My family lived in Holland from 1968 to 1973, and we had a cleaning lady whose husband was Jewish. She hid him during the war and told her neighbors she'd kill them if they betrayed her. She wasn't kidding. Tini was a formidable woman.

Everyone is wearing a lot of clothing considering it's supposed to be a heatwave. I didn't see any fans anywhere, and I doubt there was air-conditioning in the surgery or Nonnatus House.

[amarante]

3 hours ago, ShelleySue said:

I don't know how it is for other immigrants, but my grandparents and their siblings all had multiple names.  They were Jewish from Ukraine and Lithuania.  They had Hebrew and Yiddish names and then their parents gave them names that their parents thought were American/Canadian names.  But my some of my grandparents' siblings thought those names were too Jewish or old world. For example my grandmother was Chana (Hannah) but everyone called her Annie.  Her brother was Avrum and his parents thought his "American" sounding name should be Abraham/Abe, but he went by Al.

Immigrant Jews in America always anglicized their names and almost universally gave their children (the Boomer generation) two names.

My mother immigrated and Rifka became Regina - not even Rebecca which was considered to be too Biblical. Mindele became Myrna.

Ironically a name like Hannah/Channah was considered to be too "Jewish" and old fashioned in the past generation but then became an ultra trendy modern name in the 1980's but is probably now considered to be passe 

There are a huge number of Italian girls of that generation named Phyllis instead of Philomena. 

I think there is a movement back towards celebrating ethnicity. 

[EllaWycliffe]

16 minutes ago, amarante said:

I think there is a movement back towards celebrating ethnicity. 

There is, in part because we've moved away from "Wanna be an American? Well, you better change your name to an AMERICAN name by God!" and "Thats too difficult to say, your name is John Smith now, now sign the immigration form!"

A good thing in my opinion. 

[proserpina65]

2 hours ago, caitmcg said:

He would be near 40 in 1967, given he said he was a young teen, which is plausible, though the actor looked younger to me.

Alex Waldmann, who played Mr. Rosen, is 43.  He does look younger than that.

[libgirl2]

23 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Alex Waldmann, who played Mr. Rosen, is 43.  He does look younger than that.

Yes, he does. 

[Blackie]

17 hours ago, Badger said:

The scene where Lucille starts crying when she is with Phyllis started out with a bunch of people dressed in shorts and sandals.  Phyllis doesn't like seeing all that pasty white flesh and says they should put it away.

 

PBS never lets us have nice things.

 

Nice to see more of Trixie (no pun intended). The black dress with flower applique she wore when Matthew came  to the door was so fantastic. But seriously, she gets dressed and made up for a 1 minute scene. Don't get me started on the bedroom scene just to get the news from Sister Julienne, what was the point of that 30 sec scene.  Back to the black dress scene. I think that was filmed earlier, HG's face didn't look for filled out and her hair was much better than in most of the scenes her bangs were horrible for some reason.  The gold dress for the fancy date was also fantastic. But why oh why would she wear a white dress to another picnic with the baby, didn't she learn her lesson!!!!

 

This weeks episode was so/so. I agree the sister's storyline made no sense and why wasn't that woman taken to the hospital right away for post partum depression after leaving the baby outside for long ? And I don't believe Trixie would snap at a new mom like that.

 

[dubbel zout]

10 minutes ago, Blackie said:

Don't get me started on the bedroom scene just to get the news from Sister Julienne, what was the point of that 30 sec scene.

Sister Julienne was telling Trixie she was able to get a room at the postnatal home for the twin with postpartum depression and mastitis. It set up the scene where Trixie was telling the woman why being there would be helpful to her. 

12 minutes ago, Blackie said:

But why oh why would she wear a white dress to another picnic with the baby, didn't she learn her lesson!!!!

LOL. Notice Trixie kept her distance from the baby this time, heh.

[Blackie]

20 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

33 minutes ago, Blackie said:

Don't get me started on the bedroom scene just to get the news from Sister Julienne, what was the point of that 30 sec scene.

Sister Julienne was telling Trixie she was able to get a room at the postnatal home for the twin with postpartum depression and mastitis. It set up the scene where Trixie was telling the woman why being there would be helpful to her. 

 

so they needed to all the make up and wardrobe for a 3 sec scene for that? It was obvious by the next day the lady got in to the hospital. Actually when I saw Sr Julienne going to Trixie's room I thought something terrible had happened to the mom or the baby because they basically weren't treating a mom with post partum depression.

Anyways this show seems to go through a lot of trouble for 1or 2 sec scenes. Maybe they film a lot more that never makes the cut, that is why the stories always seem like something is missing. 

[Daff]

7 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I teared up with the Bar Mitzvah. 

And didn’t he look so young as he read? I was thinking they picked the actor specifically so they could show him that way through costume and makeup. 

[Daff]

6 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

that she was from a background where one had fox fur coats. 

Weren’t we supposed to take that from the way she speaks-tone, inflection, etc.? She’s no Eliza Doolittle. No offense intended here, but I kind of went away with that overall impression of her from the beginning. She may not have come from significant money, but she didn’t spend a hungry, wanting childhood. I got the impression that her mother’s coat was something unusually special (not a whim, nor a routine extravagance) and as such was a particularly fond memory. Maybe it was her mother’s once in a lifetime extravagant gift that women of that era always cherished, and so did Sr. Hilda. 

[Daff]

6 hours ago, kwnyc said:

Also, it was hilarious to see all the things they were hiding Trixie behind. Though the gorgeous dress she greeted Prince Charming in was stunning.

The whole episode, I kept thinking they were REALLY taking advantage of that era of the empire waist!!! Every single dress!

[EllaWycliffe]

4 minutes ago, Daff said:

Weren’t we supposed to take that from the way she speaks-tone, inflection, etc.?

Oh agreed, but frankly, the majority of the nuns and midwives speak fairly "posh". Nurse Crain for example tends to speak fairly RP and so does Trixie and they're both from poor backgrounds. Even wasshername, the one FROM Poplar, didn't exactly have the Eliza Doolittle accent. The true cockney accent has softened anyway - my elder relatives who hail from the East End were often unintelligible if they'd had a few drinks to bring the accent back. (You haven't heard hilarious drunken gibberish until you've heard a cockney who lived 30 years in Australia trying to imitate the differences between Texan and South Carolina accents)

Aside from liking to party hard with her friends, I don't feel like we know a lot about Sr. Hilda. I do agree, she doesn't seem to be coming from a home of financial struggle. Knowing her mom had a fur, even if it was just one, I'd peg her at middle to upper middle class. Sister Francis too, to be honest.

Personal story time - one thing that blew my mind as an eight year old American white girl was watching the old school Tomorrow People show on Nickelodeon (back when Nick was all about You Cant Do That On Television and really creepy British kids shows) and seeing a perfectly lovely black female actress and hearing that crisp totally British accent and realizing I never considered that black people could be something other than American. 

[dargosmydaddy]

19 hours ago, Badger said:

There were a few minor cuts I recall.  In the very beginning, the nuns and midwives are complaining about the heat.  Sister Monica Joan quotes something and Sister Frances asks her if it's from "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner" to which Sr. Monica Joan answers "Poor child, the heat must have addled thee."

I was lol'ing over Sister Frances loudly (and proudly!) identifying the quote in the dinner scene... it would have been even funnier if the earlier scene had been included! Although maybe not... I think part of why I found it so funny was that it was her only line in the episode. It just seemed so random!

[amarante]

I don’t know if it is relevant to the British experience but at one time New York City public school teachers had to pass a speech test and anyone with a “New York” accent would be failed. I went to one of the NYC school for academically gifted girls from 7 to 12 grade and we were required to go to Speech Clinic if we had any trace of a “New York” accent. 
 

Losing the New York accent was considered to be as essential as losing a Cockney accent would be in England as it was a giveaway of one’s lower working class origins. 

[txhorns79]

12 hours ago, Daff said:

Recovery from the effects of WW2 took far, far longer in England, for a number of reasons, and greater numbers of traumatized refugees were there. I remember my surprise to find out how long after the end of the war: rationing continued, unexploded bombs were discovered, and large areas of rubble remained untouched (the final two, being related, I assume). 

True.  In the first season, which took place in 1957, they showed Jenny walking by large piles of rubble that were left over from where bombs had hit during the war. 

[Sarah 103]

I was going back and forth on Mr. Rosen's age before he revealed it in the episode. When I first saw him, I really wasn't sure if he was old enough to be a survivor, but I'm not great at guessing people's ages and it's harder in period shows because people looked older at younger ages. 

With the grown twin sisters, it seemed like it was easier for the younger twin to be mad at her older sister instead of her mother. It seems like the mother was the one causing the problems and making the younger sister feel inferior, which is totally not the older sister's fault. Instead of Fred's sitcom C plot, I wished we could have spent more time with the twins and show them actually having a conversation/argument that could be the basis for building a better relationship between the two. "I didn't realize that was happening/I didn't know you felt that way."  

[Badger]

4 hours ago, Blackie said:

 

PBS never lets us have nice things.

 

Nice to see more of Trixie (no pun intended). The black dress with flower applique she wore when Matthew came  to the door was so fantastic. But seriously, she gets dressed and made up for a 1 minute scene. Don't get me started on the bedroom scene just to get the news from Sister Julienne, what was the point of that 30 sec scene.  Back to the black dress scene. I think that was filmed earlier, HG's face didn't look for filled out and her hair was much better than in most of the scenes her bangs were horrible for some reason.  The gold dress for the fancy date was also fantastic. But why oh why would she wear a white dress to another picnic with the baby, didn't she learn her lesson!!!!

 

This weeks episode was so/so. I agree the sister's storyline made no sense and why wasn't that woman taken to the hospital right away for post partum depression after leaving the baby outside for long ? And I don't believe Trixie would snap at a new mom like that.

 

There was quite a bit of outrage when the show aired in the UK because apparently leaving babies in their prams outside was a thing back then and no one would have thought there was anything wrong with it.  Of course there's a difference between a mother putting her baby outside for some fresh air while she maybe does some housework or even just has some "me time" and a mother who does it because she has post partum depression.  

[BooksRule]

I loved this exchange between Sister MJ and Fred:

Sr. Monica Joan: 'I am as the desert is.'

Fred (confused): 'Dusty?'

St. Monica Joan: 'Parched!'

 

Also, I loved Lucille's dress when she was sitting with Phyllis at Nonnatus House.  The blue/white (or blue-greenish white?) swirly patterned sleeveless one.  Very pretty.

[Badger]

Trixie's father was a bank manager, so I think she was middle class.  I don't get the impression she is supposed to have been poor or even working class.  

[Blackie]

9 hours ago, Badger said:

There was quite a bit of outrage when the show aired in the UK because apparently leaving babies in their prams outside was a thing back then and no one would have thought there was anything wrong with it.

 

I thought of that because often they had showed that before on the show. So this time the needed to show that the baby was out there screaming the whole time and until a neighbour phoned Trixie (?) or Trixie showed up for her scheduled appointntment 2 hours later and nobody in crowded poplar noticed a screaming baby outside for 2 hours (?) . It wasn't clear really what happened.

 

[Blackie]

9 hours ago, BooksRule said:

Sr. Monica Joan: 'I am as the desert is.'

Fred (confused): 'Dusty?'

St. Monica Joan: 'Parched!'

 

Oh thanks for that. I didn't quite hear what Sr MJ first said but the timing and tone from Fred and Sr MJ after that still made it funny!

[Mermaid Under]

Quote

room at the postnatal home for the twin with postpartum depression and mastitis.

I got the impression the home was supposed to deal with feeding issues (and the mastitis that was related to that).   Trixie and Sister J. mentioned her mental state, but never identified it as postpartum depression, which I think is a modern term.   Having folks around 24/7 to support her with breastfeeding would probably also help with her depression, but I didn't get the impression that that was the point of admitting her to this home. 

I think they covered a few too many storylines in this episode, and I couldn't bring myself to care too much about any of them.   With the sisters, I'm sure their memories of how their mother treated them were completely different.  The younger twin feeling constantly compared unfavorably to the older twin, the older twin noticing nothing of the sort.   Was the mother really to blame for the younger twin's insecurities?  It would depend on who you talk to.

[EllaWycliffe]

1 minute ago, Mermaid Under said:

With the sisters, I'm sure their memories of how their mother treated them were completely different.  The younger twin feeling constantly compared unfavorably to the older twin, the older twin noticing nothing of the sort.   Was the mother really to blame for the younger twin's insecurities?  It would depend on who you talk to.

This! My sister and I are not twins and we have vastly different views and memories of our parents often poor choices in raising us. A guess? Favored twin was encouraged by mom to see unfavored twin as whiny. There was apparently a size difference so favored twin was the big healthy one and smaller twin was the "runt" - and no doubt heard how she was the tiny one who got nothing in the womb a lot. And favored twin honestly never saw this as anything but gentle family teasing.

An example from my own life? Sis was "the pretty one who took after mom" and I was "the smart one". Sis doesn't always remember how I was, in my opinion, mercilessly taunted for appearance things that couldn't be helped (namely unlike mom's side of the family, I was "Downton Abbey white" - and yes this was something the family called me as an adult - and would crisp red in the sun). Because I strive for self awareness, I do recall how my mom was not shall we say, kind in comparing my sister's intellect to mine, to where I felt bad for my sis that her accomplishments (she's not actually "the dumb one" even though it was often said) just got ignored in comparison to mine. But there's a lot of things where our memories of how our parents acted are NOT the same. (also my mom was kind of a narcissist who got off on pitting her kids against each other so she was the center of attention so it wasn't always healthy)

[dubbel zout]

13 hours ago, Badger said:

There was quite a bit of outrage when the show aired in the UK because apparently leaving babies in their prams outside was a thing back then and no one would have thought there was anything wrong with it. 

I think the Danes still do this. There was a giant uproar in NYC a few years back because a Danish tourist left her baby outside a restaurant. Police were called, CPS got involved; it was a mess. I think eventually the Danish consulate stepped in and had to explain things.

41 minutes ago, Mermaid Under said:

Having folks around 24/7 to support her with breastfeeding would probably also help with her depression, but I didn't get the impression that that was the point of admitting her to this home. 

I don't think you can really untangle those two issues, but yes, the home was more for breastfeeding issues than postpartum ones. And as I noted earlier, the term might have changed, but the "baby blues" were known (if mostly untreated by less saintly health providers than our CTM team).

I'm tired of the midwives and Dr. Turner always being so sympathetic and open-minded. I'd like to see some genuine conflict about a medical/psychological/social issue that lasts more than one episode and might not ever be resolved.

[Rootbeer]

3 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I think the Danes still do this. There was a giant uproar in NYC a few years back because a Danish tourist left her baby outside a restaurant. Police were called, CPS got involved; it was a mess. I think eventually the Danish consulate stepped in and had to explain things.

 

It's kind of a Scandinavian thing as I recall.  It is not unusual to see an infant sleeping in a buggy outside while the parents are inside a restaurant having lunch or in a store shopping. If the kiddo wakes up and starts to fuss, a passerby will come inside and tell the parent(s).  Very civilized people, Scandinavians.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Rootbeer

[EllaWycliffe]

1 minute ago, dubbel zout said:

I'm tired of the midwives and Dr. Turner always being so sympathetic and open-minded. I'd like to see some genuine conflict about a medical/psychological/social issue that lasts more than one episode and might not ever be resolved.

I'd like to see a midwife or doctor or even a nun who didn't back down on their incorrect views of a situation. Everyone does have very modern views on most social issues on this show and like.... no. Thats really unlikely. What if they did get a nun who really had a problem with teen moms? Or unmarried moms? What if they had a midwife who was just.... a shitty midwife? Or a doctor who didn't agree with Dr. Turner's methods?

[kwnyc]

2 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

'd like to see a midwife or doctor or even a nun who didn't back down on their incorrect views of a situation. Everyone does have very modern views on most social issues on this show and like....

One of the reasons I like Sister Julienne is that she does have a lot of conventional views for the time...but she's willing to consider newer opinions and change her mind, which is what makes her a great leader. From "The Sound of Music" to letting Nancy stay (even though she's an unwed mother), Sister Julienne manages to put the people before the rules when it seems necessary.