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ShellsandCheese

ShellsandCheese

1 minute ago, GeminiDancer said:

The sad part is that the IOC was already on thin ice in terms of credibility. How do they recover if they do nothing about the ROC? They're basically saying that other countries can give minors PEDs and get away with it.

I know Valieva is innocent in all of this, but she needs to be banned from competing.

Can someone explain to me how WADA works, because I’m reading this drug is banned but it’s not considered a performance enhancing drug - I’m so confused.

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Pallas
Pallas

Valieva will unveil a new jump in her long program: the quad bypass.

redpencil
redpencil

So this is how I would summarize things: Kamila tested positive at Russian Nationals, under the authority of the Russian anti-doping agency (RUSADA), as skeptical as many of us probably are abou

Crs97
Crs97

Considering apparently she’s been taking his needed heart medication, maybe not.

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Rootbeer

Rootbeer

1 minute ago, Enero said:

I don't think the ball was dropped here. I think this was purposely done. She didn't end up at the Olympics by accident after testing positive for a banned substance. 

She is Russia's current golden girl and they be damned if she was going to sit out this Olympics. Now how and why the truth was exposed now is the question I have. 

Yep, I don't think the positive test was brought to light by the Russians or the IOC.  More likely, some lowly employee someplace, found out it had been buried and had the proof and told the press at the same time the Olympic Committee was made aware so that it couldn't be brushed under the rug.

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

1 minute ago, Rootbeer said:

Yep, I don't think the positive test was brought to light by the Russians or the IOC.  More likely, some lowly employee someplace, found out it had been buried and had the proof and told the press at the same time the Olympic Committee was made aware so that it couldn't be brushed under the rug.

I hope they're in contact with the same people who got the initial whistleblower into witness protection.

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Enero

Enero

(edited)

Looks like the other Italian skated lights out. It has a pretty good score. He skated to Don't Want to Miss a Thing by Aerosmith. Good for him!

Don't know why NBC is not showing it. I guess they're waiting for Yuzuru to skate. 

Edited by Enero
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sweeks

sweeks

If the IOC tries to give the ROC/Russia the same slap on the wrist they've been doing for the past few Olympics for doping, I hope that Canada comes in to burn the IOC to the ground. I'm so done with Russia getting away with breaking the rules so flagrantly and with such minimal (some might argue no) consequences. The entire idea of having them compete as the ROC is a joke, and it is clear that Russia doesn't see it as a real punishment. As a teacher I tend to hate the idea of group punishment, but this is a case where it seems like it would be the only thing that might get through to Russia. That said, this would require the IOC to magically grow a spine, so I'm sure it won't happen. 

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GeminiDancer

GeminiDancer

1 minute ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Can someone explain to me how WADA works, because I’m reading this drug is banned but it’s not considered a performance enhancing drug - I’m so confused.

I call it performance enhancing because the drug is supposed to help bring more blood and oxygen to the heart.

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Rootbeer

Rootbeer

(edited)
6 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Can someone explain to me how WADA works, because I’m reading this drug is banned but it’s not considered a performance enhancing drug - I’m so confused.

There are multiple categories of banned drugs.  Some drugs are banned because, if taken, they can mask the presence of PED's.  For example, diuretics are banned because, if an athlete takes a PED that is excreted in urine, they will get rid of it faster if they produce more urine.  So, while the diuretic itself doesn't improve performance, it can be used to cheat.

Since the drug Valieva took is one used to increase blood flow to the heart muscle and aid in the production of glucose for energy, I think it could theoretically enhance performance even though it doesn't have the amount of data supporting it as steroids or erythropoieten have.  I don't doubt for a minute that the Russian government has conducted its own studies on various drugs to see if they improve performance and declined to share the results with the rest of the world.

Edited by Rootbeer
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Enero

Enero

(edited)

Argh Yuzu, just leave the 4A alone. He's not hitting it at.all. Why he has it in his program is beyond me when he's not even close to hitting it. 

Edited by Enero
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Irlandesa

Irlandesa

16 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Um ... this is wild speculation but ... could Kamila have told WADA that she was being forced this medicine, and thus this becomes a safety/child abuse issue? Keeping in mind that she's a minor. 

I think I read in this thread that another athlete managed to avoid punishment on a positive test because he was able to prove that a competitor slipped him something in an attempt to knock him out of a competition?

So I'm wondering, who is the weak link on the Russian team?  Maybe they're framing by saying she tried to sabotage Kamila.

6 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

There is precedence for federations burying positive tests. Carl Lewis tested positive FOUR TIMES in 1988 but each story was buried.

This story isn't buried.  It might get ignored but everyone is reporting on it.  It's too late to bury.

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anniebird

anniebird

I'm going to summarize everything I've read or heard on the ROC team scandal and tell me if I got anything wrong. Valieva tested positive in December for the heart drug which is a banned substance; the test either got hidden or ignored and she was allowed to participate in the Olympics. After the team event, the test came to light (whistleblower maybe?) and now the IOC has to figure out what the hell to do about it. Did I miss anything?
 

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OnePlusOne

OnePlusOne

Just now, sweeks said:

If the IOC tries to give the ROC/Russia the same slap on the wrist they've been doing for the past few Olympics for doping, I hope that Canada comes in to burn the IOC to the ground. I'm so done with Russia getting away with breaking the rules so flagrantly and with such minimal (some might argue no) consequences. The entire idea of having them compete as the ROC is a joke, and it is clear that Russia doesn't see it as a real punishment. As a teacher I tend to hate the idea of group punishment, but this is a case where it seems like it would be the only thing that might get through to Russia. That said, this would require the IOC to magically grow a spine, so I'm sure it won't happen. 

CBC was already on it, and now NBC is reporting it. I hope the Japanese media joins in (if they haven't already), since their team also would've placed higher if not for ROC's cheating. They're a huge market for figure skating. The media needs to keep up the heat, because it's standard practice for the ISU and IOC to try to sweep this crap under the rug, especially when Russia is involved.

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

3 minutes ago, sweeks said:

I'm so done with Russia getting away with breaking the rules so flagrantly and with such minimal (some might argue no) consequences.

They keep pretending that not being able to hear the anthem or raise the flag at medal ceremonies is the worst punishment possible. Meanwhile exactly zero Russians give a shit about that because they still got/get to take home the hardware.

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Daisy

Daisy

3 minutes ago, sweeks said:

If the IOC tries to give the ROC/Russia the same slap on the wrist they've been doing for the past few Olympics for doping, I hope that Canada comes in to burn the IOC to the ground. I'm so done with Russia getting away with breaking the rules so flagrantly and with such minimal (some might argue no) consequences. The entire idea of having them compete as the ROC is a joke, and it is clear that Russia doesn't see it as a real punishment. As a teacher I tend to hate the idea of group punishment, but this is a case where it seems like it would be the only thing that might get through to Russia. That said, this would require the IOC to magically grow a spine, so I'm sure it won't happen. 

It would be something if Canada did go ape. 

this Chinese guy is skating to bolero. why. stahp with the Bolero!

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Rootbeer

Rootbeer

5 minutes ago, anniebird said:

I'm going to summarize everything I've read or heard on the ROC team scandal and tell me if I got anything wrong. Valieva tested positive in December for the heart drug which is a banned substance; the test either got hidden or ignored and she was allowed to participate in the Olympics. After the team event, the test came to light (whistleblower maybe?) and now the IOC has to figure out what the hell to do about it. Did I miss anything?
 

That's a pretty good summary of events to this point.

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healthnut

healthnut

7 minutes ago, anniebird said:

I'm going to summarize everything I've read or heard on the ROC team scandal and tell me if I got anything wrong. Valieva tested positive in December for the heart drug which is a banned substance; the test either got hidden or ignored and she was allowed to participate in the Olympics. After the team event, the test came to light (whistleblower maybe?) and now the IOC has to figure out what the hell to do about it. Did I miss anything?
 

Nope, that’s about it. 

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Daisy

Daisy

17 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

There is precedence for federations burying positive tests. Carl Lewis tested positive FOUR TIMES in 1988 but each story was buried.

yeah - i mean. everyone was like. "Ben Johnson Cheated!!" (and he got kicked out as he shoulda) but I mean - everyone was doing it, and "protecting" Athletes (this was one of Ben Johnson's gripes btw) and  Canada was just like - good for you dumbo, and washed their hands of it because he cheated.

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ShellsandCheese

ShellsandCheese

13 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Seriously, what kind of dirt does Putin have on the IOC for this to even be up for debate?

I was rooting hard for Kamila, but if she tested positive for a banned substance, she should be out. It sucks, but unless the entire corrupt system is punished, the wheel keeps turning. 

Honestly. I don’t think it’s that so much that there is rampant cheating everywhere and no country wants to push too hard less the lens gets turned back on them. With all of the various doping scandals in so many sports - I resigned myself to the fact that most elite athletes are probably engaged in some shady business to give themselves a leg up on competition…..

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Daisy

Daisy

Just now, proserpina65 said:

Bolero belongs to Torvill & Dean.  Everyone else should leave it the hell alone.

there are just some musics that should be forboddon. 

Bolero. 
Carmen.
Moonlight Sonata .
Moulin Rouge. 

just. don't. do. it. 

There's another one that irritates me everytime i see it on the screen - and i am like NOOOOOOOOOOO. Pick new music. (but not with lyrics. sorry if i am harpy with this. but lyrics in these routines just take me out of it. i focus on the lyrics (esp. if it's afun song) vs on the routine)

Oh Canadian is on!

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DawnDavenport

DawnDavenport

Just now, GeminiDancer said:

Shoot, even Michelle couldn't make it work.

True. I think it's something she could have done something special with earlier in her career, somewhere around '98 - '01 when she was still doing cool stuff like Red Violin, Ariane, Black Swan. 

Everything after just became too pedestrian since she was dealing with nagging injuries and she had to focus on jumps.

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emmawoodhouse

emmawoodhouse

1 minute ago, Daisy said:

there are just some musics that should be forboddon. 

Bolero. 
Carmen.
Moonlight Sonata .
Moulin Rouge. 

just. don't. do. it. 

There's another one that irritates me everytime i see it on the screen - and i am like NOOOOOOOOOOO. Pick new music. (but not with lyrics. sorry if i am harpy with this. but lyrics in these routines just take me out of it. i focus on the lyrics (esp. if it's afun song) vs on the routine)

Oh Canadian is on!

Keegs has lyrics. 😁

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annzeepark914

annzeepark914

2 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Bolero belongs to Torvill & Dean.  Everyone else should leave it the hell alone.

 

I don't know about that. Sure, I think skaters who plan to use it as just background music should leave it alone. But I'd like to see a creative skater or dance team (with a great choreographer) take it on and produce a new, stunning Bolero performance.

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CeeBeeGee

CeeBeeGee

1 hour ago, justmehere said:

Aw Donovan - he was landing jumps in the warm-up. Maybe nerves got to him. Still, he's at the Olympics and participated in the final skate with a season's best score. It would be great if he got more opportunities from this.

I LOVED seeing him bend down to trace his fingers on the Olympic rings afterward! Such an endearing gesture.

 

1 hour ago, Lady Whistleup said:

The East German women went through serious tragedies -- they had serious health problems. A few transitioned to become men as they were shunned for their appearance. In state sponsored doping there's no such thing as "choice." Doctors give you something and you take it.

Terrible health problems. I've watched a couple of documentaries about it. What a fucking tragedy.

 

YES to retiring Bolero. T&D have that on lockdown.

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OnePlusOne

OnePlusOne

(edited)
20 minutes ago, GeminiDancer said:

Shoot, even Michelle couldn't make it work.

Not even with Christopher Dean choreography! (And I say this as a huge Michelle fan.)

It seems like most skaters actually didn't touch "Bolero" for a long time after Torvill & Dean. I don't know if these young 'uns and their coaches think we've forgotten now. But my old ass will always think that music belongs to T&D and needs to be left alone.

Edited by OnePlusOne
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Daisy

Daisy

1 minute ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I love Keegan Messing's program. It's so Canadian, it practically drips maple.

hahahaha that's so true. 

he did okay. that's good enough for me.
I don't think Canada was expected to medal here.

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Irlandesa

Irlandesa

3 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Keegs has lyrics. 😁

I love it but it cracks me up. I remember when it was an absolute No No.  Heck, I think he had some moves in that routine that would have gotten the old school skaters in trouble. 

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