Figure Skating

[absnow54]

Trusova skated 500x better in her Aladdin cameo than she did in her free skate. 

[Snow Apple]

I'm watching the gala on USA right now. Can't Tara shut up? I understand commentary during competition but I just want to enjoy the exhibition as it's intended.

[absnow54]

40 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

I'm watching the gala on USA right now. Can't Tara shut up? I understand commentary during competition but I just want to enjoy the exhibition as it's intended.

It’s actually Tanith Belbin and Ashley Wagner. Tara, Johnny, and Terry are announcing the closing ceremony, so they didn’t do the gala.  

Edited February 20, 2022 by absnow54

[EllenB]

 https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/christinebrennan/2018/03/14/latest-sex-abuse-scandal-shows-usoc-has-much-work-do/426170002/

This article about Richard Callaghan, the ex (I hope!) U.S. coach, is from four years ago, but it's so relevant that it bears reading today. What a slimeball!

 

[Chaser]

Vincent was informed he isn’t allowed to walk in the closing ceremony because of close contact risk. I feel so bad for this guy. 

[absnow54]

7 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Vincent was informed he isn’t allowed to walk in the closing ceremony because of close contact risk. I feel so bad for this guy. 

At least he gets to take home a medal, oh wait…

[Snow Apple]

28 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

It’s actually Tanith Belbin and Ashley Wagner. Tara, Johnny, and Terry are announcing the closing ceremony, so they didn’t do the gala.  

Thanks for the correction. Still annoying. 

[Jeddah]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

Vincent was informed he isn’t allowed to walk in the closing ceremony because of close contact risk. I feel so bad for this guy. 

I hope he wins Worlds. I don’t think that’s likely, or that he’ll be the best skater there. But I just want him to have something nice happen!

[Sarahsmile416]

7 hours ago, twoods said:

I loved her routine and would have never thought it wasn’t an actual routine. The dress, song, all of it was great. 

Same! I usually find her skating fairly boring - but she put all of her personality into this, so I am shocked it wasn’t one! And kudos to Hubbell because I loved her hair lol 

[Sarahsmile416]

Am I the only one who loved Smart/Diaz’ routine to Maniac in the gala? They were actually the high point for me and I usually find ice dancing to be a complete bore.  But between this and their Zorro routine in the Free Skate, I may become a believer and start watching more.  Hope they don’t retire!!

[alexa]

1 hour ago, absnow54 said:

It’s actually Tanith Belbin and Ashley Wagner. Tara, Johnny, and Terry are announcing the closing ceremony, so they didn’t do the gala.  

Yes, Ashley talks way too much for a gala and needs to shut up.  Lol

[Sarahsmile416]

6 minutes ago, alexa said:

Yes, Ashley talks way too much for a gala and needs to shut up.  Lol

I was wondering if I missed anything interesting by watching on Peacock…glad I didn’t! Even more glad I missed annoying commentary lol

[Guest]

7 hours ago, dankesean said:

That poor, poor, panda.

It sure had a hard time staying upright - but it looked like one of the ladies (Sui Wenjing?) totally knocked the panda over near the end. The skaters were all in a group in the center of the ice, the panda was off to the side on its own, and then suddenly she skated right into the poor thing! She was probably going in for a hug and overestimated the panda's stability, but it looked like a hit job 😆

[dankesean]

11 minutes ago, tracyscott76 said:

It sure had a hard time staying upright - but it looked like one of the ladies (Sui Wenjing?) totally knocked the panda over near the end. The skaters were all in a group in the center of the ice, the panda was off to the side on its own, and then suddenly she skated right into the poor thing! She was probably going in for a hug and overestimated the panda's stability, but it looked like a hit job 😆

I loved the first major fall it had, where almost the entire ice worth of skaters dashed over to help it back up, discovered there were more of them than could actually serve a purpose in getting it back on its feet, and so a bunch just... kind of patted its back consolingly.

My roommate and I continued to watch the long distance view at the end on Peacock far longer than necessary because we wanted to see how many more fall-downs the poor thing had, even just skating in an ellipse behind the performers. (At least three, was the answer.)

Edited February 20, 2022 by dankesean

[KittenPokerCheater]

Yes, I didn’t understand why so many of the skaters seemed to be pushing it over after that first fall when they helped it up.

The peacock version I saw had jarring cuts to commercials but no commentary.

I hope Chock/Bates win words, Vincent wins worlds, and if she wants it, Trusova getting her gold.

I would expect Sherbakova to retire.  Kamila, I think, won’t be allowed to because “Cheateri” wants to save face.

Going forward, I hope there will be a reckoning on how coaches treat their skaters, and that they come down HARD on people who test positive for PEDs.

[Maelstrom]

10 hours ago, redpencil said:

I dunno. Maybe Arizona follows West coast primetime scheduling.

As a fellow Arizonan, I feel qualified to say that there’s rarely any rhyme or reason how scheduling and airing are decided here. Some channels follow East coast, some channels follow the West, and some just do whatever the hell they please.

So did Jason skate in the gala?

Edited February 20, 2022 by Maelstrom

[absnow54]

1 hour ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

I was wondering if I missed anything interesting by watching on Peacock…glad I didn’t! Even more glad I missed annoying commentary lol

They did point out which moves were illegal in competition. I didn’t know you couldn’t combo a jump with a jump throw, for example. 

[Sarahsmile416]

8 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

They did point out which moves were illegal in competition. I didn’t know you couldn’t combo a jump with a jump throw, for example. 

I figured that they would probably do things you couldn’t do in competitions - but I figured it would be something like more extended lifts - but that’s interesting.  How many skaters/pairs did things that they couldn’t do in competitions? 

[ombelico]

Watching that Michelle Kwan Tosca program linked above has reminded me of something that's different now that really detracts from the viewing experience - the scorebox in the upper left corner of the screen. I get that the ISU is trying to go for more transparency in the scoring, but it's distracting to see the score and the evaluations, which items are under review and so on during the skate rather than just being able to focus on the performance itself. For transparency, the list of elements and how they were scored can be provided when the skaters are in the Kiss and Cry getting their final scores (and this would also remove the confusion about the on-the-fly scores being provisional until all the reviews are completed).

Also, I think the focus on jumps being under-rotated also is a turn-off for the average viewer, who typically can't tell that a jump is underrotated unless it's very obvious. If a skater has a minor underrotation on the jump but handles it well and anyone but an expert wouldn't have known that there was a problem, it just causes confusion to the general public to see that the jump doesn't score well. If the ISU wants there to continue to be a penalty for under-rotation, then they'd better start penalizing pre-rotation as well (which is arguably worse since it's apparently more prone to causing long term injury).

[absnow54]

11 minutes ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

I figured that they would probably do things you couldn’t do in competitions - but I figured it would be something like more extended lifts - but that’s interesting.  How many skaters/pairs did things that they couldn’t do in competitions? 

Of course now I can only remember things like “no butt spins” (Alysa) and “no backflips” (Keegan/Nathan - which Ashley was incredulous that Nathan could do a backflip) I only remember the pairs combo rule, because I thought it looked cool. There were probably a handful more that they pointed out. 

[HartofDixie]

Stars on Ice tour

https://www.starsonice.com/the-skaters

https://www.starsonice.com/buy-tickets

 

[legaleagle53]

10 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

So, Alysa was invited to the gala, but no routine. No dress. Enter Ice Dancers. 

Red dress belonged to Olivia Smart. Madison Chock did her hair. Madison Hubbell did her make up. Jean Luc Baker helped create a routine on the fly. 
 

Her father probably hated it. LOL. 
 

 

It's great the way her teammates had her back and helped her put something together at the last minute. That's what being part of a team is all about!

[choclatechip45]

I love that IAM Montreal skaters helped Alysa out. She looked like she had a blast during the gala. 

[ombelico]

19 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

One way I think skating went in the wrong direction was when they settled on the new scoring system. I agree that the 6.0 system needed an update but they went way too far away from it. It reminds me of the scoring overhaul in gymnastics (which occurred two years later so I'm not claiming it was the inspiration) but that sport has 4-6 disciplines where there can be any number of combinations out of hundreds of moves to choose from. Even the vault, where gymnasts are most limited in what they can do, has multiple options. With skating they're limited in the available moves they can use and the scoring should reflect that reality. 

With the move to open-ended scoring in gymnastics, the increased importance of the difficulty level of elements meant that there was now more value in being a muscular, powerful gymnast (Simone Biles being the primary example). The U.S. women's gymnastics team at last year's Olympics had no one under 18. In 2016, Laurie Hernandez was the only member of the team who was not yet 18.

In figure skating, however, the difficulty level in the scoring is primarily derived from how many revolutions you can do in the air - this is an aspect that favors someone to be as small and narrow as possible. Unless the ISU wants to keep seeing 13-, 14-, and 15-year-old girls run through the wringer and discarded when they start growing boobs and hips, they need to adjust the scoring to give more weight to other aspects besides how many times someone can spin around in the air before touching the ice again. Also, puberty blockers should be added to the WADA code and tested for to discourage their harmful use.

[choclatechip45]

Just now, ombelico said:

With the move to open-ended scoring in gymnastics, the increased importance of the difficulty level of elements meant that there was now more value in being a muscular, powerful gymnast (Simone Biles being the primary example). The U.S. women's gymnastics team at last year's Olympics had no one under 18. In 2016, Laurie Hernandez was the only member of the team who was not yet 18.

In figure skating, however, the difficulty level in the scoring is primarily derived from how many revolutions you can do in the air - this is an aspect that favors someone to be as small and narrow as possible. Unless the ISU wants to keep seeing 13-, 14-, and 15-year-old girls run through the wringer and discarded when they start growing boobs and hips, they need to adjust the scoring to give more weight to other aspects besides how many times someone can spin around in the air before touching the ice again. Also, puberty blockers should be added to the WADA code and tested for to discourage their harmful use.

People forget though that the reason why the US gymnastics team didn't have anyone under 18 was because of the pandemic. Suni would have been 17 and would have most likely made the team in 2020. Grace also would have been 17 if the Olympics would have been held when they were suppose too. 

[ombelico]

11 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

People forget though that the reason why the US gymnastics team didn't have anyone under 18 was because of the pandemic. Suni would have been 17 and would have most likely made the team in 2020. Grace also would have been 17 if the Olympics would have been held when they were suppose too. 

I know - but on the flip side, there were athletes who suddenly became age-eligible with the delay, like Konnor McClain, and none of them came close to making the team. Also if the games had been held in 2020 there's a good chance Morgan Hurd would have been on the team at 19 years old. The youngest alternate was Kayla DiCello, at 17. The point is just that gymnastics no longer has the "expiration date" at 15 or 16 years old that it used to, and IMO a lot of that has to do with the change in scoring that now gave value to having muscular power that prepubescent girls don't have.

[Chit Chat]

2 hours ago, ombelico said:

Also, I think the focus on jumps being under-rotated also is a turn-off for the average viewer, who typically can't tell that a jump is underrotated unless it's very obvious.

That's why I enjoy listening to Tara & Johnny explain things.  They point out things that my untrained eye doesn't notice, especially when something is a bigger deal than I thought it should be.  As a viewer, that helps me to understand the scoring a lot better.  

I caught up on last night's skating this morning.  Congrats again to Sui & Han.  I thought their program was superior to everybody else's, even with that one mistake.   The entire program was beautifully done.  

[emmawoodhouse]

12 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Alysa looked like she was having a blast out there. 

Quoting myself to add Alysa's own thoughts. 😊

https://www.instagram.com/p/CaL_wrUuc0d/?utm_medium=copy_link

[choclatechip45]

20 minutes ago, ombelico said:

I know - but on the flip side, there were athletes who suddenly became age-eligible with the delay, like Konnor McClain, and none of them came close to making the team. Also if the games had been held in 2020 there's a good chance Morgan Hurd would have been on the team at 19 years old. The youngest alternate was Kayla DiCello, at 17. The point is just that gymnastics no longer has the "expiration date" at 15 or 16 years old that it used to, and IMO a lot of that has to do with the change in scoring that now gave value to having muscular power that prepubescent girls don't have.

Well yes because Konnor was training for 2024 and had to squeeze four years into one year. Gymnastics stopped having the traditional expiration date awhile ago it just go into waves and depends how much depth each country has. The 1984 team had a few people held on due to the 1980 boycott. Sacramone was 21 years old in Bejing. Nastia held on to make the Olympics at 18. Mohini and Annia Hatch were in their mid-20s in Athens. I think the US has had at least one athlete over 18 for awhile now. 

Edited February 20, 2022 by choclatechip45

[Moxie Cat]

7 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

That's why I enjoy listening to Tara & Johnny explain things.  They point out things that my untrained eye doesn't notice, especially when something is a bigger deal than I thought it should be.  As a viewer, that helps me to understand the scoring a lot better. 

This is the first time that they were also able to draw yellow lines on the screen to show which direction the foot should land in. Definitely a helpful feature NBC should keep. The pair of them really know their stuff.

[gingerella]

I think the reason Tanith and whatshername yakked so much over the Gala skate is probably because they want to be considered first string skating commentators. But to be honest, it just wont ever get any better than Terry/Tara/Johnny. Sorry ladies, you're too late!

[honeywest]

Did Tara and Johnny wear their Project Runway outfits as promised?

[Rootbeer]

3 hours ago, absnow54 said:

Of course now I can only remember things like “no butt spins” (Alysa) and “no backflips” (Keegan/Nathan - which Ashley was incredulous that Nathan could do a backflip) I only remember the pairs combo rule, because I thought it looked cool. There were probably a handful more that they pointed out. 

In pairs, they cannot do headbangers or Detroiters.  A headbanger is a spin in which the male partner holds the feet of the female and does a spin while lifting her up and down which makes it look like she's almost hitting the ice headfirst and bouncing off.

In a Detroiter, the male partner lifts the lady and holds her straight up over his head and spins as fast as he can with her horizontal above him.  The one armed Detroiter which is self explanatory, is a popular exhibition trick for pairs.

Look up former Canadian champions Brasseur and Eisler on Youtube,  He was a big strong guy and she a tiny, strong girl and they did these moves in exhibitions all the time.

Found a link describing what's illegal:

https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/threads/list-of-banned-moves-in-figure-skating.64834/#:~:text=illegal maneuvers include%3A twist-like or rotational movements during,leg%2C arm and neck of the other partner

Quote

Did Tara and Johnny wear their Project Runway outfits as promised?

 

Yep, for the Pairs short program as promised.  They mentioned it at the top of the show.  The outfits were white.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Rootbeer

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

So did Jason skate in the gala?

I don't believe so.

[Avaleigh]

25 minutes ago, gingerella said:

I think the reason Tanith and whatshername yakked so much over the Gala skate is probably because they want to be considered first string skating commentators. But to be honest, it just wont ever get any better than Terry/Tara/Johnny. Sorry ladies, you're too late!

I think NBC can do better than Johnny and Tara but I know they won't. Polina Edmunds would easily be my pick if I could choose to have a knowledgeable commentator. Maybe now that Iohnny is disillusioned with the Russians he won't annoy me as much but I'd like NBC to give another "B" team a try like how they did with Johnny and Tara in Sochi. Adam Rippon and Ashley or maybe Jason and Polina. I like the idea of having an option of alternative coverage. 

 

3 hours ago, ombelico said:

Also, I think the focus on jumps being under-rotated also is a turn-off for the average viewer, who typically can't tell that a jump is underrotated unless it's very obvious. If a skater has a minor underrotation on the jump but handles it well and anyone but an expert wouldn't have known that there was a problem, it just causes confusion to the general public to see that the jump doesn't score well. If the ISU wants there to continue to be a penalty for under-rotation, then they'd better start penalizing pre-rotation as well (which is arguably worse since it's apparently more prone to causing long term injury).

I didn't realize this is something that would turn off the average viewer. I actually love that underrotations are called out. (I just wish that UR issues were fairly applied to all skaters. It seems like some skaters are more under a microscope than others and that's unfair.) There was a time when a lot of skaters could get away with having cheated jumps. It still goes on in the lower levels and it's frustrating to skaters who have clean jumps and aren't properly rewarded for them in comparison to skaters with uncalled URs.

Pre-rotation is a more difficult issue. For example if you look at the average triple loop on any given skater--there is typically a fair amount of pre-rotation before a skater is fully in the air. I feel like you'd need an extra tech specialist who just focuses on pre-rotation because the Russians aren't the only ones who do it. What would the new rule be? Half a turn is allowed? A quarter? Not saying it's a bad idea necessarily to call out pre-rotation, I'm just not sure what the best way would be to go about it especially since most skaters pre-rotate certain jumps. 

[honeywest]

4 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

 

So did Jason skate in the gala?

No. Neither did Junhwan Cha. But Keegan Messing and Morisi Kvitelashvili did. (So did the 13th-place Italian pairs team, and I don’t know what the hell that was about.)

[gingerella]

12 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

I think NBC can do better than Johnny and Tara but I know they won't. Polina Edmunds would easily be my pick if I could choose to have a knowledgeable commentator. Maybe now that Iohnny is disillusioned with the Russians he won't annoy me as much but I'd like NBC to give another "B" team a try like how they did with Johnny and Tara in Sochi. Adam Rippon and Ashley or maybe Jason and Polina. I like the idea of having an option of alternative coverage. 

I was so over Scott Hamilton and Dick Buttons, and that other woman, was it Andrea whatshername? She's okay for talking to skaters in the Kiss N Cry area I guess. But what I like about Johnny, Tara and Terry - because I feel like Terry is very much part of that team now - is that they, and especially Johnny, give very specific details on what's correct, what's not correct, details of different jumps and why one is harder than another, etc. I get a lot of technical education from his commentating. Tara not so much but I accept her as part of the package (still don't think she deserved her gold, but I need to let that shit go!). Terry Gannon is a breath of fresh air, and I found it amusing how they have gotten him to accept a color coordinated pocket square now for each of their group outfits. I know, that's not about the sport per se, but it's another little touch that I appreciate and find entertaining. I like them. I'm open to other B team options, but I don't find Tanith compelling in any way. She's like a walking Nilla Wafer in bad dresses. And Ashley is a hard no from me too. Nothing she offered was needed. I like Adam Rippon, but I don't think he'd commentate if he's currently coaching active competitors. That's where he belongs right now IMO, coaching.

[emmawoodhouse]

Ashley also coaches, Boston Skating Club IIRC. She seems to just dabble in broadcasting. Tanith covers other sports for NBC; figure skating isn't her only gig.

eta Tanith may have scaled back to just skating commentary since she and Charlie opened their skating school. 

Edited February 20, 2022 by emmawoodhouse

[Lady Whistleup]

Johnny has his annoying mannerisms (like his overenunciation of Russian names), but I'm glad he does try to explain things like underrotation or GOE. These things might not be obvious to a viewer on first glance. For instance, one time he replayed Karen Chen's jumps and I could actually see the underrotation. 

[Jeddah]

The more I think about it, the more I don’t think the way Johnny pronounces the Russian skaters’ names is pretentious. He’s probably pronouncing them close to how they are actually pronounced. Those are their names. Not everything has to be Anglicized.

[HartofDixie]

 

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

Can I just say how much I enjoyed watching Nathan Chen's gala skate, especially his facial expressions?  And the back flip? He was just having a ball.  And I was so happy hearing different music with the skaters instead of all that funeral music.  And Maniac was a kick. 

 

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

But what I like about Johnny, Tara and Terry - because I feel like Terry is very much part of that team now - is that they, and especially Johnny, give very specific details on what's correct, what's not correct, details of different jumps and why one is harder than another, etc.

I love the three of them together. Terry does most of the intros, and then he lets Tara & Johnny take the lead by giving us the play by play, as it were.

Terry was announcing figure skating long before Tara & Johnny came along, so I'm glad they had him to show them the ropes!    I think they work well together.  According to WikiPedia, Johnny, Tara & Nastia credit him with helping them develop their skills as analysts, and I think that's why they're so respectful of him.  I love that Johnny calls him by his given name of Terrance.  I would love for Terry to go crazy with an outfit at least one time.  Tara & Johnny would love that!

That picture of Scherbakova just breaks my heart.  I hope she gets a lot of love when she gets back home.  Kamila got lots of love.  She needed it.  

[emmawoodhouse]

22 minutes ago, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

Can I just say how much I enjoyed watching Nathan Chen's gala skate, especially his facial expressions?  And the back flip? He was just having a ball.  And I was so happy hearing different music with the skaters instead of all that funeral music.  And Maniac was a kick. 

 

Didn't Nathan skate to Caravan as a short program a few years ago?

[lurkerbee]

On 2/20/2022 at 1:45 PM, gingerella said:

I think the reason Tanith and whatshername yakked so much over the Gala skate is probably because they want to be considered first string skating commentators. But to be honest, it just wont ever get any better than Terry/Tara/Johnny. Sorry ladies, you're too late!

I think the reason they talked so much is because they had producers in their ears telling them to talk. Seems like Ashley was doing most of the talking. There’s no need to have so much talking during the gala.

As far as first string goes, Tanith is already there. Her dance commentary was fantastic, and minimal. I also thought she raised Johnny’s game. He was far more enjoyable with her than with Tara, who definitely talks too much.

Terry may be my favorite play-by-play(?) skating guy ever. He seems to actually be interested in the events and not just filling a space.

Edited February 26, 2022 by lurkerbee
Spelling

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Didn't Nathan skate to Caravan as a short program a few years ago?

It was his short program in 2018-19 and he's used it skating with Stars on Ice in the last few years, too.

4 minutes ago, lurkerbee said:

I think the reason they talked so much is because they had producers in their ears telling them to talk. There’s no need to have so much talking during the gala.

As far as first string goes, Tanith is already there. Her dance commentary was fantastic, and minimal. I also thought she raised Johnny’s game. He was far more enjoyable with her than with Tara, who definitely talks too much.

I liked that they supplied information about the skater's plans post Olympics, but that could've been done just before and after the skate itself.  

Edited February 21, 2022 by Rootbeer

[Chit Chat]

2 hours ago, lurkerbee said:

As far as first string goes, Tanith is already there. Her dance commentary was fantastic, and minimal.

I like Tanith and I think it's a good idea to have someone who has actually been a pairs skater to help with that particular competition.  I enjoy her input on all thing's pairs!!  And she's married to one of my favorite Ice dance skaters, Charlie White!  

ETA:  correction on pairs vs. ice dance.  I think of them all as pairs, but I do know the difference!!

Edited February 21, 2022 by ChitChat

[emmawoodhouse]

10 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

I like Tanith and I think it's a good idea to have someone who has actually been a pairs skater to help with that particular competition.  I enjoy her input on all thing's pairs!!  And she's married to one of my favorite pair's skaters, Charlie White!  

Tanith commentates on Dance, not pairs. 🙂

[Avaleigh]

2 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

 

I remember how sad we all felt for Alina at the time of her win in terms of how alone she seemed to be, but in comparison to what Anna just experienced I feel like Alina's win was almost joyful. I think one of my biggest hopes for 2026 is that whoever wins won't feel like they aren't allowed to celebrate. 

[choclatechip45]

I love how you can spot Evan in the closing ceremonies sport because he is so tall. 

At least with Alina it was a weird situation because her teammate went last, but I've always like Evgenia more so maybe I'm just sympathetic. 

Anna's was a clusterfuck.