S04.E10: The Rise

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

7 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

...if Daniel wants his kids to learn to fight the Myagi way, why hasn't he taught them the crane kick...?

The crane kick looks cool but is near-useless as an actual karate move. For one thing, since it's a flying kick (i.e. both feet are off the ground), it will only work against an opponent who's about your size or smaller. If you try it against someone substantially bigger, simple physics says that when your foot connects with him, you'll push off the bigger object and go flying right into the ground. This is why most karate kicks rely on having the other foot planted firmly, so you have something to push back on.

In addition, if anyone's seen the kick before (which they probably will have because of its ubiquity in popular culture), they'll just step back out of your reach, wait until you've done the kick, and rush you when you come back down. Recall that the crane kick only worked in KK1 because Johnny hadn't seen it. When Daniel tried it against the more experienced Chozen in KK2, it didn't work.

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

The crane kick looks cool but is near-useless as an actual karate move. For one thing, since it's a flying kick (i.e. both feet are off the ground), it will only work against an opponent who's about your size or smaller. If you try it against someone substantially bigger, simple physics says that when your foot connects with him, you'll push off the bigger object and go flying right into the ground. This is why most karate kicks rely on having the other foot planted firmly, so you have something to push back on.

I know nothing about martial arts but even as a kid in the 80's I could probably tell that it was a ridiculous move. But even so it is such an important part of the Karate Kid world that you would think Daniel would show his students. Or at least the drum punch which also seems dumb. Plus so much else of this show is silly so why not that.

1 hour ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

The entire Stingray plotline is flat-out ridiculous. A bunch of kids at a Junior Prom are not going to be interested in going to some creepy thirtysomething dude's house, alcohol or no. Were none of these children on any kind of curfew? And why would the neighbor even confront him instead of just calling the police? The minute the cops walk in and see a bunch of teenagers boozing it up, Stingray's going to jail for several dozen counts of Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor. 

I don't know, I think the opportunity for free beer in a giant house with a pool would be interesting to a bunch of 16 and 17 year olds. Especially ones in a tv show, and especially ones in a tv show that deals in a lot of 80's tropes. I am just surprised there wasn't a scene where the doorbell rings and all the kids pour through the door all at once.

[Chicago Redshirt]

7 hours ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

The entire Stingray plotline is flat-out ridiculous. A bunch of kids at a Junior Prom are not going to be interested in going to some creepy thirtysomething dude's house, alcohol or no. Were none of these children on any kind of curfew? And why would the neighbor even confront him instead of just calling the police? The minute the cops walk in and see a bunch of teenagers boozing it up, Stingray's going to jail for several dozen counts of Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor. 

I am guessing most of the people who went would not know the house was associated with Stingray but just would be going because of word of mouth, and once at a sweet house with liquor and people their own age they liked/could hook up with, would not really care that there was a thirtysomething dude lurking around until or unless he tried to hit on them.

Since it was prom, and most of these kids come from well-to-do families, I imagine that they had pretty big leeway.

I imagine the neighbor wanted to get in Stingray's face and didn't imagine Stingray would actually attack him, and then was too cowed to call the police despite having been attacked.

I am guessing even in the real world, lots of people skate for providing teens with alcohol at party houses, albeit Stingray is/was just on probation.  

[DoctorAtomic]

6 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I know nothing about martial arts but even as a kid in the 80's I could probably tell that it was a ridiculous move.

I'm digging deep here, but wasn't the crane kick only used because Johnny sprained Daniel's ankle; thus he couldn't plant to make a kick any way? It's almost like a forward scissor kick in soccer where you're kicking with the plant foot, and the off foot (Daniel's injured one) only provides the momentum. You're not really floating in the air; you're launching yourself. Certainly, there's limitations, but it was meant to be a last ditch effort. 

I mean, pick one other iconic scene that is literally the 80s. (The volleyball scene in Top Gun comes so close, but no). 

6 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I don't know, I think the opportunity for free beer in a giant house with a pool would be interesting to a bunch of 16 and 17 year olds.

I can roll that no one really has curfew for the prom too. Most of the kids wouldn't know whose house it is anyway. "Oh, it's so and so's friend that used to be in karate with him." They're not going to care.  

 

[paigow]

14 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I mean, pick one other iconic scene that is literally the 80s. (The volleyball scene in Top Gun comes so close, but no). 

Back To The Future 1.0 - Fotomat booth destruction

[Marvin]

I quite like Stingray. He fits in with the misfits that were joining Cobra Kai when Johnny was setting it up. He is just a grown version of the kids. A loner looking to fit in. 

On 1/2/2022 at 8:19 PM, Superclam said:

Regardless of the inconsistencies, improbabilities and ridiculousness of this soap opera show, I am consistently entertained. I actually yelled out "oh shit!" when Chozen showed up. No way I won't be back next year! 

It took me a minute to realize that he was actually there as i thought he was maybe Myagi's ghost a first since Danial was talking to Miyagi's grave !

On 1/3/2022 at 3:18 AM, Kate47 said:

Y'all, I did a whole victory dance in my living room when Eli won, like what an amazing fight. Props to the coordinators this season, they stepped up the game

That was a really well choreographed fight ! 

 

I like how the show didn't take he easy route and go for a predictable ending - ie. Myagi Do winning and beating Cobra Kai,etc. It threw it a few nice surprises which set it up well for Season 5. I also like how each generation of kids have a Johnny / Daniel character and how these characters tend to switch roles throughout the show.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

6 minutes ago, Marvin said:

I quite like Stingray. He fits in with the misfits that were joining Cobra Kai when Johnny was setting it up. He is just a grown version of the kids. A loner looking to fit in. 

Yes, but he needs to join a dojo with students his own age, not be the lone adult with a bunch of people a generation younger.

[paigow]

25 minutes ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Yes, but he needs to join a dojo with students his own age, not be the lone adult with a bunch of people a generation younger.

Johnny was lucky not to get arrested at the high school football field... Stingray is younger than Johnny but somehow creepier / pervier

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

3 minutes ago, paigow said:

Johnny was lucky not to get arrested at the high school football field... Stingray is younger than Johnny but somehow creepier / pervier

Stingray is pervier because when Johnny was on the HS football field (and I totally agree that some adult would have confronted him and told him to either get out or at least register at the front office), he was there for the specific purpose of recruiting people to his dojo. He wasn't inviting people to his place or ogling the female students.

When Stingray was lurking around the edges of the prom, he was just there to horn in on people and invite them to "his" house for illicit booze.

Intent matters.

[raven]

24 minutes ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

When Stingray was lurking around the edges of the prom, he was just there to horn in on people and invite them to "his" house for illicit booze.

Intent matters.

I agree - I can't stand Stingray and wish the character would go away forever.  However, the show does go out of its way to try to portray him as an older teenager--even though we know he's not--we don't see him hitting on teen girls or boys.   I think the show wants to show his as a lonely guy trying to fit in but then they show him being an asshole to the neighbor.  The neighbor was being dickish but it's not Stingray's house either, so he's making trouble where it doesn't need to be as well as opening up potential liability with the underage drinking and then assault.  The homeowner could be sued.

Johnny is portrayed as clueless in his recruitment efforts and also has Miguel by his side.  Miguel is serving as an audience surrogate - laughing a bit and definitely cringing at Johnny's efforts.   Johnny would have come off way creepier if Miguel weren't there.  We also have more Johnny backstory so we know what his ultimate intentions are.   The show is pointing out in Johnny's case that hey, he's acting kind of creepy (note the majority of the girls' reactions as well as Miguel's) but we don't get that with Stingray.  He's just portrayed as kind of there and next season there may be some kind of sympathetic redemption arc.  They may try to parallel his beating with him beating up the neighbor.

The show is constantly circling around the same theme of redemption.

[DoctorAtomic]

44 minutes ago, paigow said:

Johnny was lucky not to get arrested at the high school football field... Stingray is younger than Johnny but somehow creepier / pervier

He did have Miguel with him. If he was by himself, forget it. 

13 minutes ago, raven said:

Johnny is portrayed as clueless in his recruitment efforts and also has Miguel by his side.  Miguel is serving as an audience surrogate - laughing a bit and definitely cringing at Johnny's efforts.   Johnny would have come off way creepier if Miguel weren't there. 

Johnny even learned feminism! 

[Kel Varnsen]

One other thing I found hilarious was that apparently if you get your boss arrested on fake charges you get to take over his company?

[paigow]

5 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

One other thing I found hilarious was that apparently if you get your boss arrested on fake charges you get to take over his company?

In Mos Espa, killing someone to take their business is a tradition.

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

One other thing I found hilarious was that apparently if you get your boss arrested on fake charges you get to take over his company?

Despite Kreese asserting dominance over Silver and running the dojo on a day-to-day basis, the arrangement between the  two is probably less boss-employee and more partnership.

From the get-go, Silver co-founded Cobra Kai and funded it with money from his dad's business. And Silver clearly put in a big recent infusion of cash -- that was how Cobra Kai was able to get a new location, sophisticated gym equipment and new uniforms. 

So it would make sense that in a partnership, if one partner goes out of the picture,  the other partner can take over. 

[blackdahlia]

On 1/3/2022 at 9:18 PM, norcalgal said:

THIS!  It's so completely unbelievable that the neighbor didn't do everything in his power to get Stingray arrested, esp. since there was already beef between the two of them which would have given the neighbor *extra* incentive to have Stingray arrested! This show wants to have it both ways as to when the police arrest someone  (Kreese) and when they don't (Stingray and the kids after the violence at the LaRusso house from last season).

Stingray's neighbour was an asshole and deserved the beat down.

down Stingray gave him.

On 1/3/2022 at 9:18 PM, norcalgal said:

 

 

[kickedinthehead]

Johnny's been to that high school so many times (usually -- if not always -- with Miguel, or going to give Miguel some message), the few other adults there might even just assume he works there at this point.

As for the pool at "Stingray's" house -- well, these were a lot of the same kids who went to the LaRusso house back in, I think, the very second episode (when Daniel caught several of them wearing his "bathing suits"). So there's that consistency! (Of course, back then they would have known Sam lived there...)

[Raja]

On 1/1/2022 at 2:39 AM, moonshine71 said:

Everything involving Stingray is pretty cringe. Let's not forget he was just on probation, and if there is not a warrant it for his arrest I will just be pissed. There is no way his sister's neighbor didn't file assault charges against him.

That whole scene just made all the high school kids look like assholes, too.  Cheering for this old weirdo while he assaulted someone who can't defend themself. Yeah, I get the guy was going go shut down their party, but these kids are way to desensitized to violence, even the ones that have nothing go do with Karate.

Since everybody knew about Stingray the only head canon I can come up with is that the neighbor was too embarrassed after being  beat up by a "loser"

On 1/1/2022 at 2:37 PM, paigow said:

Daniel will be the silent partner in Ice Block Dojo

I think just like Johnny rebranded Cobra Kai as Eagle Fang that Miyagi-Do to honor the stipulation, will rebrand. But probably someone from Karate Kid 2 or the season 3 back story.

On 1/2/2022 at 12:01 PM, paigow said:

I thought there was a SAG rule preventing 2 identically named active members. How can there be 2 Peyton Lists? Why does one not have a fake middle initial?

Well they set a precedent when allowed the famous Miss America singing a film star Vanessa Williams to have her name back after years of the TV Vanessa Williams, Melrose Place to Soul Food(TV) and lately on 9-1-1 owning it.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Raja

[marinw]

I have so much respect for Miguel for choseing not to fight with his injured back and not giveing in to Johnny pressure and expectations. Johnny should have known better after the serious injury Miguel suffered.

On 1/4/2022 at 6:16 PM, Marvin said:

That was a really well choreographed fight ! 

Yes. Riveting. Loved the camera angles.

I still want, no, DEMAND Sensei Hilary Swank.

Chozen! Is it Season 5 yet?

*waits*

How about now?

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by marinw

[NotMySekrit2Tell]

On 1/4/2022 at 8:41 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

I know nothing about martial arts but even as a kid in the 80's I could probably tell that it was a ridiculous move. But even so it is such an important part of the Karate Kid world that you would think Daniel would show his students. Or at least the drum punch which also seems dumb. Plus so much else of this show is silly so why not that.

He could also show them how to start doing a drill in the middle of the competition, which will make the opponent (even one who had been dominating) look around bewildered like "What am I supposed to do?" and let his guard down. LOL. I will never get over the ridiculousness of KK3 in general and that final fight especially. If Mike Barnes comes back, the discussion of that scene should be entertaining. 

I do enjoy the show as a guilty pleasure, and I like that they try to make something good even out of elements of the sequels that didn't work at the time. But as it's gone on and the violence has become more extreme, and character after character has been sucked back into the karate dojo/competition world, it's lost some of its humor and has become repetitious. How many times do we need to see Johnny and Daniel forming truces and then squabbling and breaking apart? If the point is that they're both immature and stuck in the past, I get it, and I was getting it three seasons ago, but this season their scenes felt forced in order to drag out the story. 

I hope the series can end on a good note and not just keep replaying its formula to exhaustion, like the movies did.

Please, no extended Mexico story with Johnny rescuing Miguel from becoming a deadly martial-arts enforcer for his daddy the drug kingpin.

[DoctorAtomic]

14 minutes ago, NotMySekrit2Tell said:

If the point is that they're both immature and stuck in the past, I get it, and I was getting it three seasons ago, but this season their scenes felt forced in order to drag out the story. 

That's my problem. It seemed the natural evolution of the story would be to join forced. Not that there's going to be conflict there, but halfway through the season they split. They barely even tried. 

[paigow]

12 minutes ago, NotMySekrit2Tell said:

Please, no extended Mexico story with Johnny rescuing Miguel from becoming a deadly martial-arts enforcer for his daddy the drug kingpin.

This is not Johnny Van Damme or Johnny Statham - beating the cartel by himself is at least 3 episodes

[Kel Varnsen]

22 hours ago, Raja said:

I think just like Johnny rebranded Cobra Kai as Eagle Fang Miyagi-Do to honor the stipulation will rebrand. 

Daniel should rebrand as Miyajee-do, with the soft g sound as a reference to how people were always mispronouncing Mr. Miyagi's name.

[Catfi9ht]

Kenny's shark-like grin as he went full evil this episode broke my heart. I can't wait until he's back to sweet little Kenny. As others have pointed out, this is a completely recycled plotline. However, the actor is so adorable and charismatic which is what's holding the plot together for me. The bad thing about this plot is more Anthony; no thanks. He's completely unnecessary other than pointing out how terrible Daniel and Amanda are at parenting.

Agree with @Chicago Redshirt's points about Miguel's actions during this episode as not being in character. Going to Mexico by himself is not smart. I'll chalk that up to teenaged angst (and coughplotdevicecough) because he's a really smart kid otherwise.

Eli winning the boy's tournament was completely telegraphed by explaining Cobra Kai only needed one win while Miyagi-Do needed both. Logically, Miyagi-Do would win whichever fight was first.

The 3 minute time limit was completely out of nowhere in order to force some BS parallel to the KK1 final fight which did not matter what so ever. It's not like they foreshadowed anything or there was any emotional investment out of creating a sudden death point between Eli and Robbie. Other than being in opposing dojos, Robbie and Eli had no other relationship or connections from a narrative standpoint.

Whoda thunk the weakest episodes this season would have been the ones that featured the karate tournament.

I'm disappointed that there's yet more Cobra Kai drama. Getting rid of Kreese for Terry Silver seems like a plot device to bring back Mike Barnes in season 5.

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more disappointed I am in the last two episodes of the season. I didn't like how they ended the season. It seems like too many plot devices to setup specific events without supporting narratives. This show is usually smarter than that.

ETA: I realized I broke my rule to end on a positive note. Other than the last two episodes, I really enjoyed this season.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Catfi9ht
Wanted to end on a positive note.

[marinw]

The different approaches to teaching Karate portrayed in this show is so interesting, and not just in terms of offence/defence. Silver and Kresse may love what they do, but Silver at least sees the dojo as a way to make money. Stingray buys his way in at one point, and one time Tory says that she doesn’t have the money to keep up with her training. I think in earlier seasons Johnny charged money for upkeep and maybe make a modest living, if I misremember that please correct me.

Danny is already on very solid finical ground, so IDK if he is charging his students. He has put a lot of money into Mr. Miyagi’s dojo. As corny as this sounds, Danny is doing this out of love as well as his silly, decades long rivalry with Johnny.

Both types of Sanseis exist in the real world. Some earn a living from teaching Karate (or other Martial Arts), others have separate careers and charge fees for rent, upkeep, equipment purchases, memberships, and insurance.

OMG, THE INSURANCE!!! In the CK universe I don’t think that is something anyone considers or worries about.

Edited January 10, 2022 by marinw

[Raja]

24 minutes ago, marinw said:

The different approaches to teaching Karate portrayed in this show is so interesting, and not just in terms of offence/defence. Silver and Kresse may love what they do, but Silver at least sees the dojo as a way to make money. Stingray buys his way in at one point, and one time Tory says that she doesn’t have the money to keep up with her training. I think in earlier seasons Johnny charged money for upkeep and maybe make a modest living, if I misremember that please correct me.

Danny is already on very solid finical ground, so IDK if he is charging his students. He has put a lot of money in Mr. Miyagi’s dojo. As corny as this sounds, Danny is doing this out of love as well as his silly, decades long rivalry with Johnny.

Both types of Sanseis exist in the real world. Some earn a living from teaching Karate (or other Martial Arts), others have separate careers and charge fees for rent, upkeep, equipment purchases, memberships, and insurance.

OMG, THE INSURANCE!!! In the CK universe I don’t think that is something anyone considers or worries about.

The different approach is Karate Kid specific. Unlike Daniel or maybe Dre/Jaden Smith these kids came up in the mixed martial arts era. It is plot that only Robby and Sam seemed to recognize the benefits. I guess Kyler was a wrestler but  I guess that is rather useless in the tournament until cheating and giving up a point for the sensei time comes.

Danial is secure financially, Silver seems to be at the next level. The dojo became Johnny's career. I guess off screen he is still a local handyman. You would think for that apartment as a base.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Raja

[DoctorAtomic]

3 hours ago, Catfi9ht said:

Other than being in opposing dojos, Robbie and Eli had no other relationship or connections from a narrative standpoint.

I actually think that was a good idea. It was just a karate fight. Sometimes that's all it needs to be. Not every match has to be laden with drama. 

 

[Catfi9ht]

14 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I actually think that was a good idea. It was just a karate fight. Sometimes that's all it needs to be. Not every match has to be laden with drama. 

 

I agree. My point was this is another reason where there was no need to add the "sudden death" point. It added nothing to the drama or the story.

[DeeDee79]

4 hours ago, Catfi9ht said:

Other than being in opposing dojos, Robbie and Eli had no other relationship or connections from a narrative standpoint.

Well, Eli/Hawk has always had a sort of resentment towards Robby that began when they faced off during the 1st tournament. Adding to that he blamed Robby and Miyagi Do after he kicked Miguel off of the balcony, continued when Kreese accepted Robby as his champion when Hawk had been striving to be that and it was amped up after Robby led the attack on him that resulted in his mohawk being shaved off. He even told Daniel that he could get payback for what Robby did to him before their fight. I feel that there's some obvious dislike on both sides. It's not as intense as Robby vs Miguel or Kyler vs anyone but it's still there. 

[Raja]

On 1/2/2022 at 10:11 PM, dwmarch said:

The offense versus defense conflict bugged me through the season. I only took karate classes for a few months about thirty years ago so I am by no means an expert on the subject but it seems to me like you would need both and I vaguely recall being taught both. Also, all the kids are black belts which I don't think is actually possible in such a short period of time.

 

Remember Mr Miyagi didn't know anything about belts when the tournament forced him to put a black one on Danial. Throughout the season the Miyagi-Do wore black belts while Cobra Kai wore white ones until Silver drop his cash.

[reggiejax]

On 1/5/2022 at 7:12 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Despite Kreese asserting dominance over Silver and running the dojo on a day-to-day basis, the arrangement between the  two is probably less boss-employee and more partnership.

From the get-go, Silver co-founded Cobra Kai and funded it with money from his dad's business. And Silver clearly put in a big recent infusion of cash -- that was how Cobra Kai was able to get a new location, sophisticated gym equipment and new uniforms. 

So it would make sense that in a partnership, if one partner goes out of the picture,  the other partner can take over. 

And now Silver's master plan is nearly complete. And that plan is to open a chain of dojos across the valley, and increase his personal wealth by the low-to-mid six figures. 

The fiend. 

[benteen]

Great season, even stronger than last season.  Cobra Kai remains one of the most fun shows around.  It's fun and has fan services but the writers bring a lot more to it in terms of story, themes and characters and the actors do a great job.  This show is great at creating new characters and evolving the ones they had.

The Robby and Eli match was pretty awesome. I'm glad Hawk one.

I enjoyed Robby storyline with Kenny a great deal.  I admit not being impressed with Tanner Buchannan prior to this season as I thought the actor had one facial expression.  But I really think the actor stepped up and delivered this season.  The Kenny storyline is going to be a good one going forward.

They even gave Daniel's son a good story and we'll see if Daniel and Vanessa can avoid rolling an absolute gutter ball with him.  The actor who plays Anthony Larussa looks a LOT like Michael Gandolfini.  He would have made a good AJ Soprano.  He's a good actor too.

I'm sorry but I was not rooting for Tory.  The qriters did a good job with her character and the actress delivered.  But she's a pyscho who tried to kill Sam and whose bad attitude cost her her job.

They definitely did a good job with Terry Silver.  Still enjoy how the show tried to explain his 80s behavior.  Kreese unleashed this monster and shouldn't act so surprised that the monster bit him.  I agree that a good lawyer should be able to get him cleared of the assault but then Kreese had to stupidly sock a cop in the face while resisting arrest.

I'm not sure I buy Kreese's second thoughts as the character has been a complete psycho but I continue to be a big fan of Martin Kove and his performance.  

While I think Johnny has gotten somewhat lost in the shuffle at times, William Zabka is still the man and Johnny continues to be one of my favorite characters.

Eagerly looking forward to Season 5 and hope it arrives during the summer.

Edited January 9, 2022 by benteen

[paigow]

Kreese will cut a deal with LAPD...

Teach karate at Police Academy for free.

[Kel Varnsen]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

Kreese will cut a deal with LAPD...

Teach karate at Police Academy for free.

Netflix Exec: "Someone get me Steve Guttenberg!"

Edited January 9, 2022 by Kel Varnsen

[NotMySekrit2Tell]

15 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Netflix Exec: "Someone get me Steve Guttenberg!"

Now that you mention it, I can't believe there isn't a Netflix Police Academy reboot series, with members of the original cast working with new recruits. Now I want one. I also want Kim Cattrall to reprise her role, as one more "suck it" to the SATC people.

[Amarsir]

I wish Eli had more of an arc this season so his win was more significant. Instead he was toned down from years past and felt like "not Cobra Kai". I guess merging his Hawk personality with his original one counts, but it was really like the H-plot amidst everything going on.

The show's self-awareness goes a long way. Earlier in the season we had shots at KK3 via Silver's obsession over messing with a teenager and the illogic of jumping to the finals. And when this little karate tournament seems ridiculously over the top they call that out as well. That's why I'm giving the show some leeway on Stingray. It's hard to call anything out as stupid when they're actively going "yeah, we know, have fun with it."

[tennisgurl]

Oh hell yeah, Chozen is here and teaming up with Daniel! Next season is going to be awesome! He's really become the most well adjusted person on the show, one of the only people really willing to let past rivalries go and embrace positive change. Daniel and Johnny made strides this season, but they both still have a tendency to fall back into bad habits and their old issues. I did love when Daniel made sure gave Johnny his due as a two time champion, that was a really nice moment. Hopefully next season they have finally learned their damn lesson and can really work together. 

Now that's the Terry Silver we remember, but now that he isn't on coke anymore he's able to think clearly and is much more conniving now. Kreese is certainly regretting calling Terry in for reinforcements, turns out he released a beast he couldn't control. 

Very excited for the next season, I cant wait to see who shows up next. I am guessing Barnes will be around to be Silver's new second in command, and maybe Daniel brings in Julie from Karate Kid 4? 

Edited January 10, 2022 by tennisgurl

[methodwriter85]

12 hours ago, Amarsir said:

That's why I'm giving the show some leeway on Stingray. It's hard to call anything out as stupid when they're actively going "yeah, we know, have fun with it."

They're also smart to give Stingray a line he won't cross- we never see him trying to hit on the teenagers.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 1/9/2022 at 9:09 AM, benteen said:

They definitely did a good job with Terry Silver.  Still enjoy how the show tried to explain his 80s behavior.  Kreese unleashed this monster and shouldn't act so surprised that the monster bit him.  I agree that a good lawyer should be able to get him cleared of the assault but then Kreese had to stupidly sock a cop in the face while resisting arrest.

Assuming there's not an ironclad alibi for Kreese, how does a good lawyer get Kreese off? 

Sure, Stingray's word alone isn't technically proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but most people are going to take it over Kreese's version of events, especially considering he would likely not take the stand to give it. 

Or to put it another way: 

The evidence that Kreese did it is Stingray's testimony, Stingray's real injuries, the account multiple people could corroborate that Kreese considered Stingray an embarrassment he didn't want associated with Cobra Kai as a potential motive.

What evidence will his defense attorney likely have to poke holes in this evidence? Maybe Kreese will point out that Silver had a motive to frame Kreese to take over the dojo, which happens to be true. But is that going to cause a reasonable doubt or just be seen as grasping at straws? Will people buy that Stingray and Silver were psycho enough to team up in this way?

[DoctorAtomic]

How hard would an alibi be though? Everyone knows Cobra Kai. If Kreese was in Safeway, someone likely said hi or saw him. 

A Police Academy: Next Generation has so much potential that I'm amazed no one has picked it up. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

15 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

How hard would an alibi be though? Everyone knows Cobra Kai. If Kreese was in Safeway, someone likely said hi or saw him. 

It depends on what story Silver/Stingray cook up, and what the actual alibi might be.

Let's say Stingray says "Kreese beat me up at the old dojo location around 10 p.m. on April 12."

If Kreese's alibi was "I was home by myself" then he likely has nothing to back up his alibi. (Assuming he now lives by himself. I think he had been living in a group home of some sort in a past season).

If Kreese's alibi was "I was with students/friends and they can vouch for me," people might conclude that the students and friends are lying rather than Stingray -- who has documented injuries -- is framing Kreese.

If Kreese's alibi was "I was at a bar/Safeway/whatever and people I don't know saw me there," then it's a crapshoot if the cops or his defense attorney can/will find people or video or something to back up that story. There could be receipts if he paid for something with a credit card showing that his credit card was used at the location. There could be video still existing showing he was at the establishment, or that he was nearby., but there's also a good chance that it would have gotten written over after a while. Somebody could have seen him at the establishment, but what is the likelihood that they would have a specific memory that it was on April 12 around 10 p.m. rather than "Oh yeah, that guy seems familiar"?

Even if there is documentary proof of the alibi, that doesn't necessarily get Kreese out from under. People might choose to believe that Kreese gave his credit card to an accomplice to make the purchase. Or they may believe that Stingray was not precise on when he was beaten up -- maybe it was more like 9  p.m. or 11:30 p.m. or some other time that might make the alibi null and void. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Chicago Redshirt

[DoctorAtomic]

Eh, I think it's thin and won't hold up. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

Let's even assume that the case against Kreese doesn't hold up. 

It seems likely that even if acquitted, Kreese should be done with Cobra Kai. As long as it can't be shown that Silver set him up, Silver can rely on the notion that "no parent in their right mind is going to want you to have anything to do with Cobra Kai after you were accused of beating one of your students nearly to death, no matter that you beat the case." Of course, that's using real-world logic, which may or may not apply.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Let's even assume that the case against Kreese doesn't hold up. 

It seems likely that even if acquitted, Kreese should be done with Cobra Kai. As long as it can't be shown that Silver set him up, Silver can rely on the notion that "no parent in their right mind is going to want you to have anything to do with Cobra Kai after you were accused of beating one of your students nearly to death, no matter that you beat the case." Of course, that's using real-world logic, which may or may not apply.

Let's see the Valley parent thinking Cobra Kai did some bad things, but wasn't that car guy's Miyagi-Do students in that school riot and almost killed some poor kid?  And Cobra Kai has decades of wins and being a winner will look good on collage applications

[CrazyDog]

Anthony finally has one genuine moment. And Robby finally starts to see the effects of CK.

The actor who plays Kenny did a fantastic job playing the sweet nerdy bullied kid and a fairly frightening cobra. Impressive.

Demetri with a good showing. I love his confidence, but still being himself.

Yay, Eli! That fight was well done. The hawk sound always make me laugh.

Tori finally shows a little growth, as Amanda keeps getting through to her. And that was a nice fight between Sam and Tori. Different styles but pretty evenly matched.

I can't blame Sam for being confused when the training has been so convoluted. Too bad she, and Tori, both got screwed by Silver and the shady ref. Tori wanted to be the best, and her win is tainted now, not her fault. And Sam feels like a failure, letting her dad and Miyagi-Do down.

Also, no pressure, kids!

I did feel for Tori with Silver telling her to cheat to win. Johnny knew exactly what was up.

The actors playing Eli, Tori and Robby look like naturals in the fight scenes, at least to my untrained eye.

Silver makes Kreese look positively sane. And is the king of threatening smirks.

All of these kids being used as pawns in the battle of drama and egos among the different senseis. 

SHUT UP Kyler. You lost.

No pressure, Miguel! Good for him for making his own choices in the tournament.

I loved the brief moment of Robby and Eli showing respect to each other, before Silver ruined it, and Robby standing up to Silver. "You want to fight him?" Gold.

Daniel and Johnny finally learn, just a wee bit too late.

Good season, but the infighting between the non-CK dojos was so frustrating. Robby looks to be leaving CK...will Tori? I could see her sticking around for the power, but maybe she'll eventually defect as well, especially with Kreese gone. 

Chozen! This show knows how to stick a badass, season ending scene.

Edited January 13, 2022 by CrazyDog

[moonshine71]

Anybody else ever wonder how awful the All Valley Tournament has been over the three decades between the movies and the show? None of the other dojos can manage to get anyone past the quarter finals against these 3 dojos full of students who have been training for just over a year at the most, many significant less. I know the whole mythology is built on the bullied outsider/underdog defying the odds, and I could accept Daniel, Miguel, and Robbie as exceptional students who went through intensive, one-on-one training(or close to it) with true karate masters. But when it gets to the point of Kenny making the semifinals, A 100 lb 13 or 14 year old kid w/ like a month of training against nearly full grown 18 yr olds who I'd imagine have years of experience, it's really starting to cheapen the the victory for whoever wins, imo. It just no longer appears to be a very competitive tournament. It would probably work better for me if the tournament had age brackets and maybe a novice division(something such a tournament would certainly have, in addition to having a girls division long before now), that way you you could still have these characters winning matches and scoring points for their teams without diminishing the accomplishments of any of the older, more experienced victors.

[marinw]

You make some great point, @moonshine71. It would be great if some never-before-seen person from another dojo won by just sensibly training in Karate. However, this show is a fantasy. As much as I would love a drama/comedy/dramedy about people in a karate dojo practeing and living thier lives, CK is not that show.

Edited January 13, 2022 by marinw

[Raja]

On 1/4/2022 at 5:41 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

I know nothing about martial arts but even as a kid in the 80's I could probably tell that it was a ridiculous move. But even so it is such an important part of the Karate Kid world that you would think Daniel would show his students. Or at least the drum punch which also seems dumb. Plus so much else of this show is silly so why not that.

 

Remember Mr Miyagi, Daniel was not ready. So neither are his students. Even if  all the karate players in the valley have grown up seeing "the logo" of Danial preparing his winning kick. Johnny on the other hand taught it to the Miguel and he used it for his opening move while Johnny was eyeballing Danial in the first Cobra Kai tournament match.

5 hours ago, marinw said:

You make some great point, @moonshine71. It would be great if some never-before-seen person from another dojo won by just sensibly training in Karate. However, this show is a fantasy. As much as I would love a drama/comedy/dramedy about people in a karate dojo practeing and living thier lives, CK is not that show.

Lean into the nostalgia. There is one more forgotten champion out there to mine. The guy Johnny had to get through to get to the grudge match with Danial. I would nominate the champion before Johnny from Locust Valley Karate Darryl Vidal

[marinw]

One of the central themes of this show is how the bullied turn into bullies themselves, and that bullies are out-bullied by bigger bullies: Johnny is usurped by Kreese, who is then upsurped by Silver.

Edited January 14, 2022 by marinw

[methodwriter85]

On 1/13/2022 at 6:06 AM, marinw said:

You make some great point, @moonshine71. It would be great if some never-before-seen person from another dojo won by just sensibly training in Karate. However, this show is a fantasy. As much as I would love a drama/comedy/dramedy about people in a karate dojo practeing and living thier lives, CK is not that show.

Disney had a tv show called Kicking It. I'm not sure how good it was, but it seemed like a typical lighthearted Disney t.v. show.

I do think it'd be funny to have an episode from the point of view of the other dojos in the Valley that are not insane. LOL. Maybe one run by Julie Pierce? (Hey, a 90's boy can dream, can't he?)

[millennium]

On 1/7/2022 at 10:19 AM, Catfi9ht said:

I'm disappointed that there's yet more Cobra Kai drama. Getting rid of Kreese for Terry Silver seems like a plot device to bring back Mike Barnes in season 5.

This show is like a version of the afterlife where a group of people are condemned to keep returning to the scenes of their greatest failures.   The only way to break the cycle is to atone and make amends. 

The teens are killing it with their acting skills.   Samantha came across as a vindictive, petulant brat all season, but in her final match she seemed every bit a warrior.   Tori is hard to like but impossible to hate.   Robbie was like a teenage Terminator until coming unglued in the last moments.  Miguel was the heart and soul of the whole season.   And Kenny seemed like a puppy that was kicked and kicked until it just turned mean. 

I loved the reappearance of Chozen.   Never saw it coming, didn't get spoiled, so I too had an "oh shit" moment.

Stingray doesn't fit into the show anymore.  Season 1 was more tongue-in-cheek so a caricature like Stingray could get a pass as comic relief.  While the show has retained its great sense of humor, it has become more dramatic in the seasons since.  A one-dimensional character like Stingray stands out like a sore thumb.

Edited January 15, 2022 by millennium