S06.E22: Reunion Part 2

[motorcitymom65]

How is calling someone vanilla an assault on their character?  Vanilla just means ordinary.  Same with not lighting up a room when someone walks in-it just means they are ordinary.  Ordinary doesn't mean bad nor is it an insult.

Almost anything can be an insult is the person saying it is trying to be insulting. Is the theory that Ramona was trying to pay Jonathan some type of a compliment? No, it was a put down, and therefore an insult.

[MatildaMoody]

 

How is calling someone vanilla an assault on their character?  Vanilla just means ordinary.  Same with not lighting up a room when someone walks in-it just means they are ordinary.  Ordinary doesn't mean bad nor is it an insult.

I think intent plays a part here. While I agree that it is not an insult on a person's character to be called vanilla, being called vanilla the way Ramona used it to describe Jonathan was a personal insult to him. 

 

Kristen's issue was with Heather, and her being bossy (it was actually more of Heather behaving like Josh IMO. Unfortunately Kristen is not smart enough to realize that), she threw out Heather bossing Johnathan around as an example of her bossiness (because Kristen just wanted to win the "you are so bossy" argument).

 

Ramona turned the conversation into a husband comparison. She talked about Johnathan being vanilla and how he doesn't light up a room. It was insulting because she was calling Johnathan a wimp. None of this was about calling out Johnathan's character or moral fiber. Ramona just straight up insulted Johnathan as a husband. And then, she had the nerve to compare him to the pig that is Mario. 

 

Ramona's biggest crime when it comes to Johnathan, is that she called him not as awesome as Mario. But, since we know how NOT AWESOME Mario is, we can all just say that Ramona is either stupid or delusional.

 

I think that Heather knows this. More importantly, I think that Johnathan knows this. Even if he doesn't, I think he simply doesn't care. His support of his wife seems to prove that to me.

[zoeysmom]

Jonathan Schindler, Senior Managing Director, Principal

Thanks for the info.

[motorcitymom65]

When/where was it ever published that Lu admitted she wasn't really still married to the Count in S1? I have never heard her say this.

[AKA...CJ86]

^^^^...ditto motorcitymom, I don't recall ever hearing that either.  I'd like to know too.

[LotusFlower]

When/where was it ever published that Lu admitted she wasn't really still married to the Count in S1? I have never heard her say this.

They were still married in season 1. Some are alledging that they were separated.

[zoeysmom]

When/where was it ever published that Lu admitted she wasn't really still married to the Count in S1? I have never heard her say this.

On E! The True Hollywood Story they did a program about reality tv stars who had gotten divorced while appearing on their respective shows.  One was LuAnn, Linda Hogan, Courtney Stoddard, Adrienne Curry and some Basketball wives woman.

 

LuAnn said, it was hard because when she started filming the first season she was separated.  LuAnn also admitted to pretty much the same thing on the Bethenny show.  Bethenny brought it up and LuAnn plead the kids again.  There may be a You Tube video of it or maybe you can watch the show on demand.

[sasha206]

Having just finished season 3, I felt sorry for Ramona.  She clearly adored Mario and it's sad their marriage dissolved with his cheating.  It's got to be really painful to have made it through many years of marriage and have it end over some tacky, trampy not even attractive woman.

[LilaFowler]

Having just finished season 3, I felt sorry for Ramona.  She clearly adored Mario and it's sad their marriage dissolved with his cheating.  It's got to be really painful to have made it through many years of marriage and have it end over some tacky, trampy not even attractive woman.

Season 3 is largely the reason that it's nearly impossible for me to hate Ramona. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

How is calling someone vanilla an assault on their character?  Vanilla just means ordinary.  Same with not lighting up a room when someone walks in-it just means they are ordinary.  Ordinary doesn't mean bad nor is it an insult.

 

Shall we play back the whole clip of Moaner's rant on Jonathan?  It was not meant to be flattering & it certainly wasn't a harmless observation.  For sure.  No other way to interpret what Moaner was saying there.  It was meant to be a put down & an insult.  I thought it was needlessly vicious.  At the reunion, Heather said it was rotten & she was right.  Moaner kept smiling like a loon & didn't defend herself against Heather cuz she knew what she said was indeed rotten.

 

I kinda luved them playing that clip of Moaner bragging to Lu about her perfect marriage & how she, Mario & Avery were a "trifecta".  Sheesh, that was nasty as fuck of Moaner to do.  She was saying that crap cuz she knew the kind of shit marriage Lu had & was rubbing it in.  It was just a nasty, c*nty thing for Moaner to do.  Lu was looking at Moaner in disbelief & responded back to her in a really snarky way, so maybe even back then it was pretty well known Mario was cheating on her.

[sasha206]

Season 3 is largely the reason that it's nearly impossible for me to hate Ramona. 

 

Ramona was actually much more pleasant and actually showed some empathy and compassion.  I don't mind that Ramona.  And she looked fabulous at the Season 3 reuinion.  It's really amazing how good she looked for her age.

[DeeplyShallow]

As BSC as Aviva is, I want to thank her for mentioning TKAM/Lee/Capote because I got to learn a lot about Capote in this forum as a result. Fascinating stuff.

That's the only piece of credit I'm giving this loon. She's ugly- inside and out.

With that, I'm going to re-read my beloved TKAM by HARPER LEE this weekend. I need to cleanse my soul after a week of catching up on housewife nonsense (NY, OC, etc).

[copacabana]

Ramona is a cow or a dick or a fill in the blank. Actually neither since I like both cows and dicks.  Ramona is just Ramona -- in a state of permanent arrested development and incapable of having either an awakening or a sense of humour about just how dumb and offensive she is. And dumb and offensive to no real purpose.  In that way she's a lot like the detestable Aviva.  I was watching some of Melissa McCarthy's great clueless monologues in both "The Heat" and "Identity Thief" and damn if I didn't see a lot of Singer in those. Zero self-awareness or sense of occasion.  At least Melissa's characters are basically lovable. And capable of getting a clue. 

 

Jonathon being vanilla out of her mouth would seem to suggest that he's not the sexy, charismatic, chick magnet that is ...  say, oh really, Mario!  What she was saying is that he's not really a ... a MAN!  In the same way that the Berkshires are not really ... a desirable location.  She's a monster of vanity and egotism.  And the stupid.  The real slam was against Heather -- Heather is married to a wimp, a sissy, a nowhere boy -- She's married to a super stud because she's Ramona.  It's really all about Ramona, 24/7.

 

And the fact that she was sucking up to Kristen, whom she clearly does not like or respect, makes it even tackier.  So she's using some other woman's husband -- another woman, by the way, that she clearly doesn't care for -- as ammo in kissing yet another chick's ass she can't stand. And why exactly?  Because it suited her purpose in that instant.  Ramona is so far beyond repair. 

 

I doubt that Jonathon gives a damn and it seems clear that Heather doesn't either but, wow, way to act like a fool on tv.  

Edited August 9, 2014 by copacabana

[Satchels of gold]

I sooooo wish Heather would ask her how being married to a guy who lights up the room is working out for her.

[imjagain]

The fact that Ramona said nothing when Heather talked about Ramona's attack on Jonathan, tells me that Ramona knows she was an ass for saying those things.

Not because she is sorry but because she looked so stupid comparing Jonathan to her sleeze ball husband. And everyone sitting there knew, what a cheating piece of crap Mario is. That is why she said nothing. I just know, had the cheating thing not blown up, Ramona would have Shrugged and said

"well I'm sorry, I just don't think your husband is charming and he does come off wimpy! Sorry, if I hurt you're feeling but that's just how I feel."

That is why I don't buy the "Ramona has no malice", she knew not to say a word or else Mario would be brought up again.

She knows when to bite her tongue.

Edited August 9, 2014 by imjagain

[ScoobieDoobs]

Ugh, no no no no no, here's Aviva being even more horrible & maddening.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/kateaurthur/aviva-drescher-versus-carole-radziwill-help-me

 

Look, even if you hate Carole's guts, Aviva is just horrible to her for really absolutely no reason.  Can you imagine being on the receiving end of this Satan woman's wrath?  I'd never wanna have anything to do with this evil woman.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Hmmm, even The LA Times is getting in on covering the fun, eh?

 

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/gossip/la-et-mg-ramona-singer-divorce-split-rhony-real-housewives-mario-singer-20140807-story.html

[Mozelle]

Ugh, no no no no no, here's Aviva being even more horrible & maddening.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/kateaurthur/aviva-drescher-versus-carole-radziwill-help-me

 

Look, even if you hate Carole's guts, Aviva is just horrible to her for really absolutely no reason.  Can you imagine being on the receiving end of this Satan woman's wrath?  I'd never wanna have anything to do with this evil woman.

 

Responding in Aviva's thread...

[Avaleigh]

Ugh, no no no no no, here's Aviva being even more horrible & maddening.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/kateaurthur/aviva-drescher-versus-carole-radziwill-help-me

 

Look, even if you hate Carole's guts, Aviva is just horrible to her for really absolutely no reason.  Can you imagine being on the receiving end of this Satan woman's wrath?  I'd never wanna have anything to do with this evil woman.

 

Wow...just wow. I can't even with this woman. She's lucky that Andy had x, y, and z to think about during the reunion because he really could have made it a lot more uncomfortable for her if he'd wanted. 

 

Seriously though, she's out of her mind. Like, crazy out of her mind. This is honestly the first time I've ever said anything like this but I really don't think I'll be able to continue with this franchise if she's asked back. I also don't think I'll have any problem in keeping my word and that's saying something because I never, ever thought I'd be able to quit this bitch.

[motorcitymom65]

Ugh, no no no no no, here's Aviva being even more horrible & maddening.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/kateaurthur/aviva-drescher-versus-carole-radziwill-help-me

 

Look, even if you hate Carole's guts, Aviva is just horrible to her for really absolutely no reason.  Can you imagine being on the receiving end of this Satan woman's wrath?  I'd never wanna have anything to do with this evil woman.

Wow, that is just stunning.  I am literally without speech. This woman has to be the most evil gal we have ever seen on any of these shows.  Honestly, she is making Brandi look like a Girl Scout with nothing but good intentions, and I detest Brandi.  I don't think we will ever see Aviva on our TV's after part 3 of the reunion. 

[Leigh3]

Ugh, no no no no no, here's Aviva being even more horrible & maddening.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/kateaurthur/aviva-drescher-versus-carole-radziwill-help-me

 

Look, even if you hate Carole's guts, Aviva is just horrible to her for really absolutely no reason.  Can you imagine being on the receiving end of this Satan woman's wrath?  I'd never wanna have anything to do with this evil woman.

wow wow wow! So Aviva doesn't think it was Carole's place to write about her husband Anthony.  Another fine example of what a piece of shit Aviva is. So glad Kate Aurthur called her on her crap.

[LotusFlower]

Ugh, no no no no no, here's Aviva being even more horrible & maddening.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/kateaurthur/aviva-drescher-versus-carole-radziwill-help-me

Unbelievable. I think Aviva knows she's toast and won't be asked back, so she's trying to grab any and every moment now to trash Carole and defend herself.

[ScoobieDoobs]

I don't think we will ever see Aviva on our TV's after part 3 of the reunion.

 

Hopefully not.  I was watching Andy on this part of the reunion & while he was mostly nice enough to Aviva, he made a face & was seriously annoyed when she said that crap comment about Harper Lee.  Those producers have clearly had enough of her diva demands.  Well, she helped them improve ratings with the leg toss, but she also hit the wall cuz that's about all she's got to give.  If she came back for another season what would she do, throw her leg every week?  Yawn.  Buh-bye, Veevs.  Get the fuck lost.

 

So Aviva doesn't think it was Carole's place to write about her husband Anthony.

 

By all accounts Anthony was a terrifically nice guy & his death at such a young age was tragic.  So according to Aviva, it's not OK for Carole to write about her husband Anthony & JFK, Jr. & his wife, who were her best friends & her MiL, Lee, but it's just fine & dandy for Aviva write extensively about her slimy sleazebag father nobody wants to hear anything about, eh?

 

The thing is, Aviva keeps going back at Carole & repeating the same lies & it really is extremely disturbing cuz Carole is letting her get away with it.  Um, I don't really think Carole is handling this thing with Aviva so great.  People can say they're tired of Bookgate & Andy can declare it over, but it's not over.  Not by a long shot.  She keeps coming at Carole & repeating the same lies & she won't fucking stop.  This evil, vile woman is relentless.  Carole needs to get her to stop spouting these lies about her.  

 

Honestly, I think Carole is getting really piss poor advice.  If she were a friend, I would tell her exactly what to do to get Aviva to just back the fuck off already -- and it has everything to do with fucking with Reid's reputation (with subtlety, of course & it's surprisingly quite easy to do).  It would shut her up quick, I guarantee it.  Carole needs to find other people to advise her how to get Aviva to STFU.  Even if Aviva is booted off the show, it doesn't seem to matter cuz she's still getting coverage from the media.

Edited August 10, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[Midnight Cheese]

Wow, that is just stunning.  I am literally without speech. This woman has to be the most evil gal we have ever seen on any of these shows.  Honestly, she is making Brandi look like a Girl Scout with nothing but good intentions, and I detest Brandi.  I don't think we will ever see Aviva on our TV's after part 3 of the reunion. 

Absolutely.  Aviva is now top of the food chain, if the top represents the worst human beings ever on this show.  She has made every possible move she could have conceived of to ruin Carole's career, and has dragneted in ghostwriters, editors and others, publicly, into this insanity.  Those people were not public figures in the RH manner - and in terms of public figures, while she pretends to know that the TKAM rumor has been debunked in the Buzzfeed interview, she still thought it was a good move to denigrate Harper Lee.  It's disgusting.  All of it.  Carole was right; Aviva has no soul.  And it's not an interesting soulessness, and I don't think it's the result of a treatable illness.  It's a total deficit of character and decency, taking acting like a spoiled, worthless asshole out to its outermost limits. 

[Avaleigh]

Wow, that is just stunning.  I am literally without speech. This woman has to be the most evil gal we have ever seen on any of these shows.  Honestly, she is making Brandi look like a Girl Scout with nothing but good intentions, and I detest Brandi.  I don't think we will ever see Aviva on our TV's after part 3 of the reunion.

 

 

I really hope that you're right, motorcitymom65. Having to put up with Brandi is bad enough but with Aviva I can't even really laugh at her bad behavior, she's just so awful. I honestly feel sad for her children if she's even 1/16 of what she's put out there via the show. 

 

Maybe it sounds crazy but even her face is looking totally sinister to me right now. She strikes me as a very unhappy woman at the end of the day. I can't decide if Reid is a piece of work himself or if he's inclined to be a Captain-Save-a-HW. 

 

And it's not an interesting soulessness, and I don't think it's the result of a treatable illness.  It's a total deficit of character and decency, taking acting like a spoiled, worthless asshole out to its outermost limits.

It sickens me that she more than likely thinks she's the great victim in all of this and is just being misunderstood or something. It's like, no honey, we all understand you clear as fucking crystal, and the verdict is that you're an unpleasant, entitled, unlikeable liar who can even make Ramona more appealing in comparison. Bravo, seriously, get this horrible woman the fuck off of my screen and make sure she takes her sleazy father with her. 

[tripsy]

Even if Aviva is booted off the show, it doesn't seem to matter cuz she's still getting coverage from the media.

 

It may make a difference, depending on the exact terms of the contract. If Aviva is booted off the show, she may no longer be protected from a defamation lawsuit by the provision of the Bravo contract that prevents castmates from suing each other.  Any statements made while she is part of the show are probably protected by the Bravo contract, but any comments made after she is fired may not be.  I wonder if she would still be so free with her malice once she can be held liable in court. 

 

I also wonder if publicly dragging an editor from her publishing house into this mess may get her dropped.  After all, it's not as if her book sold that well.

[Pollock]

she still thought it was a good move to denigrate Harper Lee.  

Obviously, Aviva's not a girl's girl™.

[LotusFlower]

It may make a difference, depending on the exact terms of the contract. If Aviva is booted off the show, she may no longer be protected from a defamation lawsuit by the provision of the Bravo contract that prevents castmates from suing each other.  Any statements made while she is part of the show are probably protected by the Bravo contract, but any comments made after she is fired may not be.  I wonder if she would still be so free with her malice once she can be held liable in court. 

 

I also wonder if publicly dragging an editor from her publishing house into this mess may get her dropped.  After all, it's not as if her book sold that well.

Carole said in one of these interviews (I think Buzzfeed) that she's not going to sue her. Not just because of the Bravo contract issue, but because filing a lawsuit is a big deal and costs a lot of money, and also because it would drag in a lot of people, and these are her colleagues in the publishing world. I don't think it's even worth it. Aviva has proven herself to be a nutcase, with malicious intent. She damaged her reputation, not Carole's.

Besides, this is the end of the road for Aviva. There's no way she's coming back.

[ScoobieDoobs]

She won't file a lawsuit against Aviva cuz she'd have to drag in the very people she wants to work for again in the future.  Bravo is part of NBC/Universal  & she has a development deal for the The Widow's Guide with NBC/Universal.  She also mentioned the publisher of Aviva's book is her publisher as well.  A lawsuit against Aviva now is definitely not the way for her to go.  Could she sue?  Hell yeah,  But it's not in her own best interest.

 

Now, can she stop Aviva from continuing to spout off lies about her?  There are ways -- other than lawsuits.  But what Aviva says after she's booted from the show ain't gonna matter much.  I'm sure after she's kicked off, attention on her is gonna fade enormously.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Looks like Moaner acting so loopy has probably guaranteed her a spot for next season, but it ain't lookin' so good for Sonja, at least according to this-

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/confidential/split-stupor-mario-show-article-1.1898267

 

Looks like maybe Lu's strong presence at the reunion has convinced producers to keep her on & make her full time again?

Edited August 10, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[SFoster21]

Looks like Moaner acting so loopy has probably guaranteed her a spot for next season, but it ain't lookin' so good for Sonja, at least according to this-

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/confidential/split-stupor-mario-show-article-1.1898267

Looks like maybe Lu's strong presence at the reunion has convinced producers to keep her on & make her full time again?

I thought earlier scuttle had her off to new, greener pastures.

I don't remember anyone posting about this, but LuAnn had a fairly big role on a Law and Order awhile back.

If they want her, she should make them pay!

Edited August 10, 2014 by SFoster21

[comatoast]

From Carol’s BuzzFeed interview (talking about Andy):
CR: I think he had heard about it. And he knew I was upset about it. He was very smart, though. He said, “Rely on the intelligence of the audience, Carole.” I was, like, “I can’t do that! That’s slander! And this is insane!” And you know what? He was right.

That sums up my opinion of BookGate. Just because we watch idiots doesn't mean we are idiots. In Buzzfeed she talks about Aviva's condescending attitude...I think they both were quite condescending. If Carol would have jumped off her high horse she would have given the audience, her readers, her publishing company and her peers more credit than she did during the show. And the small minority on Aviv's side consists of people who would not have been inclined to purchase Carol's books anyway. They would have welcomed anything anyone said about Carol’s writing, plain and simple. There are always people like that and those aren't the people Carol needs to worry about.

 

Honestly, I think Carole is getting really piss poor advise.  If she were a friend, I would tell her exactly what to do to get Aviva to just back the fuck off already -- and it has everything to do with fucking with Reid's reputation (with subtlety, of course & it's surprisingly quite easy to do).  It would shut her up quick, I guarantee it.  Carole needs to find other people to advise her how to get Aviva to STFU.  Even if Aviva is booted off the show, it doesn't seem to matter cuz she's still getting coverage from the media.

 

I think this will only add fuel to the crazy fire that is Aviva. Personally, I think Carol needs to cut off the attention Aviva continues to get by not even acknowledging her. Enough with the snarky comments, etc., she needs to be laser focused on the truth about her work and only give simple statements with facts and nothing more. If she must reference the scenes with Aviva, she should say things like, "one of my co-stars said/did, but the facts speak for themselves," and never use her name again. Aviva will continue to unravel and reveal herself as someone who is untrustworthy, ridiculous, vicious and desperate without Carol's help...unless Carol is also somehow benefiting from the extra attention.

 

Not trying to stir the BookGate pudding here, but I do have a question: at what point does one become a real writer? Carol was a producer/writer at ABC. She didn't write book-length manuscripts until What Remains. Aviva had two published writing credits before even being cast as a housewife. Who's to say she couldn't have landed a book deal at some point without RHONY and couldn't have written it herself? (I know she didn't.) She certainly has a compelling story to tell, and there was enough interest in it to include her writings in two books, not to mention the articles written about her before RHONY.

[zoeysmom]

I do not understand Carole's continuing attention to 'Bookgate'.  At the end of filming Season 5-two years ago and the Reunion a little less than two years ago-no one was speaking to Aviva. As soon as Aviva crapped on Carole, Carole should have just moved on. 

 

The whole world understands that Carole feels a great disservice was done to her by Aviva publicly claiming that someone (and that someone now has a name) in publishing cast an aspersion about Carole's writing.  As one of the few real writers in the world, Carole is somehow had the biggest offense of all times perpetrated on her in RH history.  And still no one cares.  Carole's reputation as a writer is not destroyed by the rumors.  Her ability to get another book contract may be destroyed by her miserable sales and that has nothing to do with Aviva or RHNYC.   For Heather or anyone else to keep bringing it up, for Carole to attend any event with Aviva to chance it being brought up again, was not very smart on the part of Carole or Heather. 

 

What I don't understand as loathsome as Aviva was and is why did any of these women even give her not going to Montana a mention.  I will say this-at least Jill and LuAnn were smart enough when they tried to freeze someone out of filming to not make the target's exclusion a storyline.  No one cares if Aviva has asthma, to even ask about it was just plain stupid.  If Carole, Heather and slow Kristen want to continue to bring up Aviva and her BS excuses they are giving Aviva exactly what she desires-attention. So their quest for screen time feeds the beast that is Aviva. 

 

So next season whether they thin the herd or bring in some new talent, the producers have to understand viewers don't care if someone doesn't go on a trip-sickness or slight, it has been played out way too many times.  What made NY a favorite of mine is the first three seasons it was more about the women developing one on one relationships. Sure they got together en masse and mixed things up but many times it was just two or two or three at the time or they spent time with their spouses and children.

 

Carole has cast aspersions on Reid's career-with some "word on the street" has it Reid is embezzling from his clients.  These folks can't have it both ways-it is either hands off spouses and kids or it isn't.  One of things I find so annoying about Aviva and now Carole is they know how far they can take it without committing an actionable libel or slander cause of action.

 

I wish the Reunions included segments with open discussions on why the ratings sucked-with viewer input of course-now that would make for some good TV.  The finger pointing would be relentless.

[ryebread]

She has made every possible move she could have conceived of to ruin Carole's career, and has dragneted in ghostwriters, editors and others, publicly, into this insanity. 

 

While I agree that Aviva is acting like a raving, idiot lunatic, Carole took the first step toward messing up her career by joining this clusterfek in the first place.  She should have never allowed it to go as far as it has.  Like Ramona, she should have 'shut 'er down' and refused to ever acknowledge Aviva or her rants again.  Period. Unless....

Carol is also somehow benefiting from the extra attention.

 

I think messing with Reid's career would be a punk ass move.  I'm glad this is not the world I live in.

[LotusFlower]

While I agree that Aviva is acting like a raving, idiot lunatic, Carole took the first step toward messing up her career by joining this clusterfek in the first place.  She should have never allowed it to go as far as it has.  Like Ramona, she should have 'shut 'er down' and refused to ever acknowledge Aviva or her rants again.

Hindsight is 20/20.

[MatildaMoody]

I thought Carole did a really good job of avoiding Aviva throughout the filming. She let it drop after the lunch with Aviva, and only got into that confrontation at the party because Ramona convinced her to shut down the talk and move on. After that, Carole simply left Aviva to her own devices. Carole even avoided Aviva at the engagement party for he who must not be named. The only other time they interacted before the finale was when Aviva approached Carole at Kristen's beach party. At the finale, which I thought they were contractually obligated to attend, Carole kept her distance from Aviva. Aviva was the one who called them over to the table and even when they got up and left, she called them back. Even during that conversation, Carole didn't actually say anything until Aviva, again, brought up bookgate. And, she never even got to address it because Heather knew what Aviva was doing and called out Carole's name in a warning manner.

 

I think Carole's instinct was to defend herself and her career, but she also did a good job of just avoiding Aviva whenever she could. The talk about asthma and Aviva not being in Montana, was never instigated by Carole. She may have commented on conversations that were already in progress, but she didn't initiate any conversations about Aviva.  

[Midnight Cheese]

It's just not true that Carole relentlessly gave Aviva the attention she's pathetically desperate for: she did **not** spend an enormous amount of time discussing the black hole that is Aviva.  The person who most vigorously resuscitated things was Saint Ramona, squawking about leaving the dinner table in Montana to telephone Avivile and talk a little asthma.  That is true, that is what was shown, and the contrary assertion is patently false.  I mean, before Aviva threw her leg, you had Carole and Heather fleeing the table.  They don't want to be around her.  They are fucking OVER her.

 

I think it's surreal, like clocks-melting surreal, to dance around the huge difference between Aviva's behavior and Carole's.  Aviva has continuously spewed the most venomous lies she could think of at the one person she seemed unnaturally attracted to and attached to last season.  She arrived on their freshman season with her mouth planted to Carole's tiny ass, wanted to dive into Carole's story at a fucking party.  And how was it illegitimate for Carole to have written about her life and loves this year when it wasn't last year?  And what's the problem: the lie about ghosting, or Carole's temerity for writing about her life?  Aviva wanted this near-stranger to be a godparent to her child.  But because Carole and Heather and Aviva had a mutual cooling-off after the last season, after it was all digested, after time passed, because Aviva decided to not say a word about Carole's new book coming out (shades of Sonja not supporting LuAnn, but I guess since LuAnn is Attila the Housewife every disgusting distortion against her is awesome and somehow factual), because Aviva had Carole vet a ghost and then lied about it -- now we have formerly relatively private people outed in this Buzzfeed interview, we have Aviva claiming in what I hope is her last Bravo blog ever that Carole told her that she **never** loved anyone, ever, we have Aviva making a BS claim about a settled question of American literature, we have Aviva making the absurd claim that Lee Radziwill, the Kennedys, and others in that family must be angry at Carole for telling a story that she lived yet somehow wasn't hers.  Maybe Aviva can cut off Carole's face and wear it when Carole next vacays with Lee.  That's where she's coming from.  Look at Aviva after throwing her leg.  Look at her demeanor.  It's as if she wanted Carole and Heather to still be besties with her after all that disrespectful, horrifying, manipulative bullshit.

 

Like Carole said, all Housewife fights aren't the same.  This is Aviva trying to destroy a coworkers current career for what is fundamentally no fucking reason, and IMO it is an actual lie to pretend that that is not what's occurred.  This is Aviva trying affirmatively to damage the interest that still exists for 'What Remains' by claiming that Carole did not love her family of origin, or Carolyn and JFK Jr., or her husband.  This is Aviva proudly stating who at Simon & Schuster gossiped with her, when there is no sense that I'm aware of that this person wanted her to be outed.  And for what?  For being asked if she hired the person she asked Carole to vet.  It can be spun in any fucking way but that is the fundamental thing that Aviva seized on.  It certainly seems to me that Aviva is demonstrating that the opposite of love or obsession is total hatred.  Because Carole wouldn't love Aviva the way she did Heather, Aviva had cause to try and destroy her.  How fucking scary is that?

 

The insinuation that Jonathan must be a pussy - let's just call it what it is - because he must somehow, based on no evidence, be low-earning, is gross.  (But at least we found his mysterious title!)  There's no bigger pussy than a man who fucks around because he can't confront the issues in his own marriage, and then forces his spouse's hand by humiliating her deliberately. 

Edited August 10, 2014 by Midnight Cheese

[ryebread]

Terrific post, zoeysmom.

 

No one cares if Aviva has asthma, to even ask about it was just plain stupid.  If Carole, Heather and slow Kristen want to continue to bring up Aviva and her BS excuses they are giving Aviva exactly what she desires-attention. So their quest for screen time feeds the beast that is Aviva.

That, in a nutshell.  If Aviva is brought back, hopefully they've all learned their lesson.

Carole's reputation as a writer is not destroyed by the rumors.  Her ability to get another book contract may be destroyed by her miserable sales and that has nothing to do with Aviva or RHNYC.

Exactly.  Get off my TV and finish your next bestseller, Carole. If Brandi can do it, so can you. Prove the haters wrong and do what you claim to do best.  Write.

[Higgins]

For what iit is worth, I think Mario will regret throwing his 20 year marriage away. Divorce will fundamentally change his relationship with his daughter and any future grandchildren they may have. Holidays, wedding and everything else becomes much more complicated after divorce.

[shoegal]

Exactly.  Get off my TV and finish your next bestseller, Carole. If Brandi can do it, so can you. Prove the haters wrong and do what you claim to do best.  Write.

Why does Carole need to get off TV to write? I believe she is working on her next book, which is a book of essays. Her book deal with Widow's Guide was a two book deal.

[LotusFlower]

Why does Carole need to get off TV to write? I believe she is working on her next book, which is a book of essays. Her book deal with Widow's Guide was a two book deal.

Right. Plus, she's a freelancer, so she writes magazine articles as well. As opposed to Aviva, who spends her days tag-teaming with her nannies, going to doctors appointments, and cooking up schemes to stay relevant on reality tv.

[ryebread]

Why does Carole need to get off TV to write? I believe she is working on her next book, which is a book of essays. Her book deal with Widow's Guide was a two book deal.

Same reason I want Aviva off my TV.  They should go do what they do best and move on.  TV is not their friend.  Also, it took Carole 5+ years, I believe, to write the brilliant Widow's Guide.  And she wasn't filming a TV show at the time.  If she wants to regain the credibility she believes Aviva, and Aviva alone, caused her to lose there's only one way I know of for her to do it.  Get off the reality TV clown show and finish her book.

 

I thought Carole did a really good job of avoiding Aviva throughout the filming. She let it drop after the lunch with Aviva, and only got into that confrontation at the party because Ramona convinced her to shut down the talk and move on. After that, Carole simply left Aviva to her own devices. Carole even avoided Aviva at the engagement party for he who must not be named. The only other time they interacted before the finale was when Aviva approached Carole at Kristen's beach party. At the finale, which I thought they were contractually obligated to attend, Carole kept her distance from Aviva.

 

And yet, most every one of Carole's blog posts, written in her own hand, she mentions Aviva.  Also, interesting in my perusal of Carole's blogs, she wrote far fewer than her cast mates.  She skipped several weeks.  Was Writer Girl having writer's block?  And why didn't the other Housewives take her to task for not performing on the same level that they are expected to perform

 

I think it's surreal, like clocks-melting surreal, to dance around the huge difference between Aviva's behavior and Carole's. 

Speaking only for myself but there is a HUGE difference between Aviva and Carole's behavior.  I happen to think Aviva's is much, much worse but Carole doesn't deserve a halo.  Skimming through her blogs again, on this fine day, cements it for me that she is a mean spirited person.  Not on the level of Aviva or Ramona but she can be nasty, even when it's not necessary.

[shoegal]

Same reason I want Aviva off my TV.  They should go do what they do best and move on.  TV is not their friend.  Also, it took Carole 5+ years, I believe, to write the brilliant Widow's Guide.  And she wasn't filming a TV show at the time.  If she wants to regain the credibility she believes Aviva, and Aviva alone, caused her to lose there's only one way I know of for her to do it.  Get off the reality TV clown show and finish her book.

Widows Guide was a novel, and Carole was not a fiction writer. I think Widow's Guide has done OK, and apparently it got optioned by NBC and could be developed into a pilot for a series. I would count that as a success.

As far as her being on TV, I enjoy her and I believe she has gained fans. When I want people off my TV, I usually just use my remote and change the channel, or at least fast forward. I don't see why she can't finish her book and also film the show. I don't believe these two professions are mutually exclusive.

[LotusFlower]

Get off the reality TV clown show and finish her book.

 

She finished it. It's now in its second printing. And sales of What Remains shot up after she started on this clown show. Holla!

[Midnight Cheese]

I didn't give Carole a halo, ryebread.  Certainly Carole has shown herself from time to time as self-absorbed, snarky and even mean-spirited and back-biting.  But yeah, she's not yet DEFCON-5, whereas Aviva's gone past DEFCON-1.  The leg throw was like 17 levels past the Cuban Missile Crisis.  Milsaps has seen her share of crazy and even she was like '...holy shit.'

[shoegal]

 

 

And yet, most every one of Carole's blog posts, written in her own hand, she mentions Aviva.  Also, interesting in my perusal of Carole's blogs, she wrote far fewer than her cast mates.  She skipped several weeks.  Was Writer Girl having writer's block?  And why didn't the other Housewives take her to task for not performing on the same level that they are expected to perform.

I think she didn't blog those weeks because it was during the time that she was vacationing in Europe with friends on what looked like a kick ass time (at least on Instagram).

[ScoobieDoobs]

As one of the few real writers in the world, Carole is somehow had the biggest offense of all times perpetrated on her in RH history.

 

Eh, I wouldn't be amused either if someone repeatedly lied about me on a national TV show.  Guess Veevs isn't the only one who thinks Carole is wrong to defend herself against someone publicly spouting off lies bout her.  Hey, the Bookgate thing was getting tiresome to watch.  But Carole can & should defend herself against some asshole insisting on saying lies about her.  That ain't ever OK -- to me at least.  Maybe some people don't care & think it's hilarious & snark-worthy.  I can understand if she doesn't cuz these lies could damage her reputation & career.  Doesn't seem hilarious to me.

 

Anyhoo, sounds like Carole actually did OK from being on the show.  Maybe her book sales are improving, but if she got a development deal with NBC/Universal, that sounds pretty awesome to me.  Sure, it could go nowhere, but she'll still profit nicely.  Whereas Aviva will be soon be long forgotten.

Edited August 10, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[ryebread]

 When I want people off my TV, I usually just use my remote and change the channel, or at least fast forward.

I believe this point was argued, unsuccessfully, a couple weeks ago.  And can you imagine if everyone were to change channels or fast forward through every scene which included someone they wanted gone?  Think of the ratings.  Andy would plotz.

 

I think she didn't blog those weeks because it was during the time that she was vacationing in Europe with friends on what looked like a kick ass time (at least on Instagram).

Exactly. I didn't specify which weeks she didn't blog - I would hope she'd take a break during vacation - but there were several, non-consecutive weeks in which she didn't.  I'm surprised the other Housewives who are so vested in everyone doing equal work didn't storm the castle.

[ScoobieDoobs]

For what iit is worth, I think Mario will regret throwing his 20 year marriage away. Divorce will fundamentally change his relationship with his daughter and any future grandchildren they may have. Holidays, wedding and everything else becomes much more complicated after divorce.

 

We only know a tiny part of what's going on with either of them.  His hooking up with this seemingly deranged young woman who has a long history of really off-the-wall behavior speaks volumes.  So I wasn't so surprised to see this account of Mario acting strangely-

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/confidential/split-stupor-mario-show-article-1.1898267

 

It does sound like he's had enough of Moaner & he's ready to move on -- whether with this lunatic chick or another one.  And maybe Moaner has had enough of his cheating ways & wants to move on too.

[shoegal]

I believe this point was argued, unsuccessfully, a couple weeks ago. And can you imagine if everyone were to change channels or fast forward through every scene which included someone they wanted gone? Think of the ratings. Andy would plotz.

Exactly. I didn't specify which weeks she didn't blog - I would hope she'd take a break during vacation - but there were several, non-consecutive weeks in which she didn't. I'm surprised the other Housewives who are so vested in everyone doing equal work didn't storm the castle.

I am not really concerned about the ratings or Andy. If I don't want to watch people, I don't. (Which is why there will never be a Kardasian on my tv, but yet, they are doing just fine despite me not wanting them on my tv and I don't have to endure watching them....it all works out!)

I know Carole didn't blog at least one week while on vacation, but I guess I just don't care enough to track which week she did and which week she didn't. I don't think the other ladies said that they were invested in every other Housewife doing equal time (I believe that speculation came from the viewers) but I don't really think blogging/not blogging is that big of a deal (unlike filming/skipping extended trips). Sounds like mountains out of whole mills to me (tm Ramona).

Edited August 10, 2014 by shoegal