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Come Again?: The Late-Series Revamp Or “Sequel” Series


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Do these ever work? I’m thinking of something like Jack Tripper moving in with his girlfriend, or the Golden Girls buying a hotel, or Maude becoming a congresswoman. Almost all the of the time, the revamp ends after a season (Three’s a Crowd, The Golden Palace) or even less (Congresswoman Maude, Newsradio Goes to New Hampshire, etc).

What other ones am I missing?

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I guess I should have clarified at the beginning of this thread: I’m thinking sequel as opposed to spinoff, because there are a lot of successful cases of the latter. In my mind, a sequel differs from a spinoff in that the original series can’t exist at the same time as the sequel. A sequel is meant to replace the original series. JAG and NCIS ran concurrently for a few years. But Golden Palace is a sequel because the main characters from the previous series have moved out of Blanche’s house and into a hotel, the setting for the new series.

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13 minutes ago, Kyle said:

I guess I should have clarified at the beginning of this thread: I’m thinking sequel as opposed to spinoff, because there are a lot of successful cases of the latter. In my mind, a sequel differs from a spinoff in that the original series can’t exist at the same time as the sequel. A sequel is meant to replace the original series.

The only truly good one among those I've watched is Major Crimes (in fact, I like it significantly better than The Closer to the point I have difficulty watching any but my very favorite episodes of the original, because having seen the supporting characters fleshed out and given more to do in MC makes it irritating for me to watch them so underutilized in TC).

The Conners (sequel to Roseanne) is okay, but it's a shadow of its predecessor and I really only watch out of inertia and nostalgia.

All the others I can think of - The Golden Palace, Archie Bunker's Place, Women of the House (a follow-up about Designing Women's Suzanne Sugarbaker), AfterMASH - failed to grab me at all; I just missed the original.

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48 minutes ago, Kyle said:

I guess I should have clarified at the beginning of this thread: I’m thinking sequel as opposed to spinoff, because there are a lot of successful cases of the latter. In my mind, a sequel differs from a spinoff in that the original series can’t exist at the same time as the sequel. A sequel is meant to replace the original series. JAG and NCIS ran concurrently for a few years. But Golden Palace is a sequel because the main characters from the previous series have moved out of Blanche’s house and into a hotel, the setting for the new series.

Okay well my first choice still works, which is the British series Lewis.  Lewis was Morse’s sergeant on the original show, Lewis takes place after Morse died and Lewis is now the Inspector, and I think Lewis is far superior to Inspector Morse, in part because the main character is a lot nicer.(It also has my favorite will/they won’t they romance)

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Well, after concluding the Red John story, The Mentalist went from a series where Patrick Jane assisted the California Bureau of Investigation to actually becoming a member of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. It wasn't technically a new series, but, for all intents and purposes, it was, as Jane's move to the FBI was sold as a "reboot". This reboot lasted for roughly a season before The Mentalist was cancelled for good.

Edited by Danielg342
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11 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

Well, after concluding the Red John story, The Mentalist went from a series where Patrick Jane assisted the California Bureau of Investigation to actually becoming a member of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. It wasn't technically a new series, but, for all intents and purposes, it was, as Jane's move to the FBI was sold as a "reboot". This reboot lasted for roughly a season before The Mentalist was cancelled for good.

This is what the thread creator is talking about.    Where it is still the original cast or mostly the original cast, moved into a new situation WITHIN THE SAME SHOW.   Not a different show.   Like they caught Red John, not what.   Well, they time jumped a few years and people are in a different situation but its the Mentalist.   Not a spinoff, not a new series with a different, but still the Mentalist.   

The last season of Roseanne might qualify.   Where instead of being a working class family they win the lottery and are suddenly in a different situation where they travel and get into a lot of ridiculous unbellievable situations.   of course, the blow it by making it all a dream at the end (but then blow THAT ending with the Connors and Dan is alive).  

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12 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

Well, after concluding the Red John story, The Mentalist went from a series where Patrick Jane assisted the California Bureau of Investigation to actually becoming a member of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. It wasn't technically a new series, but, for all intents and purposes, it was, as Jane's move to the FBI was sold as a "reboot". This reboot lasted for roughly a season before The Mentalist was cancelled for good.

I think this could have been successful if they did it after season 3, instead of dragging the Red John storyline well past its sell date.

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Good point about the last season of Roseanne. If they had done the proposed 10th season, with Roseanne and Jackie as single moms living in Las Vegas, that undoubtedly would have qualified.

I thought of another one: the last season of Scrubs, subtitled “Medical School”, with a new group of students.

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Sleepy Hollow decided to kill off one of its main characters (who was overwhelmingly popular and who they'd already tried to sideline for the pretty, white girl that the showrunner really liked) and then try to carry on as if everything would be okay, reframing the series as actually being about just one of the two people who had been prophesied as integral to stopping evil.

They also smeared the actress, Nicole Beharie's, name and reputation, claiming she was nebulously "difficult" to work with. She has since revealed that she was ill and, while doctors were saying she wasn't fit to work, the producers and network insisted she had to. Meanwhile, her co-star who was also ill got to go home and spend weeks recovering.

It did not work. The show was cancelled with nary a whimper after its fourth season.

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3 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Sleepy Hollow decided to kill off one of its main characters (who was overwhelmingly popular and who they'd already tried to sideline for the pretty, white girl that the showrunner really liked) and then try to carry on as if everything would be okay, reframing the series as actually being about just one of the two people who had been prophesied as integral to stopping evil.

They also smeared the actress, Nicole Beharie's, name and reputation, claiming she was nebulously "difficult" to work with. She has since revealed that she was ill and, while doctors were saying she wasn't fit to work, the producers and network insisted she had to. Meanwhile, her co-star who was also ill got to go home and spend weeks recovering.

It did not work. The show was cancelled with nary a whimper after its fourth season.

Your post made me think about the aborted ninth season of “Castle” which would not have featured Stana Kanic and her character would have been killed off.

I could argue that Boston Legal is a sequel to The Practice, though it violates my own rule that the sequel and parent series could not run concurrently. But it was certainly designed to replace the parent series, and the last few episodes of The Practice partially used the Boston Legal format, setting, and cast.

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Nomination for one of the worst sequels of all time: 

Girl Meets World (2014-2017) was the sequel series for Boy Meets World (1993-2000).

Alas, despite having the SAME writers and starring the first series' protagonists (Ben Savage as Cory and Danielle Fishel as Topanga), it wound up being a far less successful attempt- not the least due to them having the latter series' protagonist ( Rowan Blanchard as Riley) initially depicted as bland while trying to please her parents and bestie  at the same time but quickly devolved into being depicted as annoying, meddlesome, entitled, unintelligent and dictatorial- yet got treated by virtually the rest of the cast as though she was good, wonderful, intelligent and perfect (and the writers seemed to keep trying to insist the audience do the same). Oh, and despite Cory and Topanga now being depicted as being an unhappy and dysfunctional couple, they were held up by the others as somehow epitomizing   a perfect marriage. 

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Was Major Crimes a revamp or just a new commanding officer/lead from The Closer? The last three years of Stargate SG-1 had a new commander and a new primary enemy.

The last season of the A-Team added a non Vietnam veteran member and had them go from free lance equalizing to working for a secret government type.

SciFi series Earth: Final Conflict seemed to reboot its premise for each of its 5 seasons. War of the Worlds (1988) saw a similar reboot from season 1 to season 2. Wonder Woman jumped from WWII to present day the next season.

The most successful that I can think of is Hunter, which dropped much of the TV  Dirty Harry comedy from its first two seasons to becoming a straighter procedural for a good run. And then the  last season saw Sergeant Hunter move from Robbery Homicide detective to a Metro Division platoon commander, but then soft rebooted right back to having him investigate homicides.

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If they count: 

Fuller House was embarrassingly awful, even though it got several seasons on Netflix (I wasn't a fan of the original Full House, though, so maybe some people liked Fuller House);

and the fourth season of Veronica Mars, which is set several years later than the original series and the movie - was just a disappointment.

 

ETA:  Would Doctor Who count in this category?  The "new" Doctor Who has been around for about 15 years now, but it's still a follow-up series to the original series, plus whatever other material (movie, radio, etc.) came in between.

 

Edited by ElleryAnne
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12 hours ago, merylinkid said:

This is what the thread creator is talking about.    Where it is still the original cast or mostly the original cast, moved into a new situation WITHIN THE SAME SHOW.   Not a different show. 

Except the example given in the original post includes Three's A Crowd which is about one character (Jack) on a new show in sort of a new situation (not living with his roommates) yet he still has his restaurant and lives with a girlfriend.

35 minutes ago, Raja said:

Was Major Crimes a revamp or just a new commanding officer/lead from The Closer? The last three years of Stargate SG-1 had a new commander and a new primary enemy.

They were still in the same police station with many of the same co-workers but it lost all of Brenda's personal life stuff that did get substantive focus on The Closer.  It moved somewhat to Sharon. There was also a switch in philosophies.  Brenda was a bit of a vigilante in her own department.  Sharon, as a former internal affairs officer, was the opposite.

If we're talking with the same show, something like Mom could be an example.  It started as a focus on a mother, daughter, both in recovery, and the daughter's children and the daughter working in a restaurant.  It morphed into a show about that mother and daughter and their AA pals. It'll be interesting to see how successfully B Positive makes its change from a show about a woman who donates a kidney to a woman running a senior living facility.

I feel like there are a few shows out there that started as a two-hander showcasing the work life and home life of a character but realized that one part of the show worked better than the other. 

Edited by Irlandesa
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The Hogan Family is a successful example. I think networks in the past were more willing to completely blow up their concept and try something completely new. 

The Facts of Life and Saved By The Bell are two where the name stayed the same but became essentially a different show.

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19 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

I think this could have been successful if they did it after season 3, instead of dragging the Red John storyline well past its sell date.

There's a part of me that thinks The Mentalist never needed Red John at all. Simon Baker is charismatic enough to lead a show on his own and the show's concept- con man uses con tricks to catch other criminals- was unique enough to sell the show. RJK was needless and dragged the show down.

Of course, another part me agrees with you about doing it after S3, especially after the season finale they had there. I might have still spent a season dealing with the fallout of Patrick Jane actually killing RJK- because his many minions wouldn't just "let it go"- but S3 felt like a more reasonable conclusion to the Red John storyline than what we did get.

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Laverne and Shirley never changed its name, but when they made the awful decision to have the characters move to California, it essentially became a different show.  And then, of course, Shirley left. 

(And of course, there was that odd animated Laverne and Shirley in the Army series, which was supposed to be set after the show but I think aired before the show ended?  I don't even know how to categorize that one.)

 

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I seem to remember Andromeda changing it's premise completely after a few seasons. Not that it was great to begin with but it went from okay to terrible.

I would argue that Three's Company is a bit of a different story. Not many people remember it was actually a remake of a Britcom called Man About the House where single man Robin shares a flat with two female roommates. When that series ended there was a second series about Robin and his new wife running a restaurant, called Robin's Nest. Three's a Crowd was just an American version of that.

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19 hours ago, ElleryAnne said:

Laverne and Shirley never changed its name, but when they made the awful decision to have the characters move to California, it essentially became a different show.  And then, of course, Shirley left. 

(And of course, there was that odd animated Laverne and Shirley in the Army series, which was supposed to be set after the show but I think aired before the show ended?  I don't even know how to categorize that one.)

The season before L&S left for CA the show was starting to slip and I think the two parter with them in the Army (with Vicki Lawrence as their CO!) was a potential reworking of the show.  I also think that was why they had the cartoon which had them in the military with Sqealy ("A commanding pig?") and later The Fonz!  Cocaine must have been involved! 

I really hated TPTB for letting L&S go so far off track.  The fact Shirley and Carmine didn't marry was unforgivable!

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Does Joey count? It was a continuation of Joey Tribiani's story from friend and only happened after that show ended. Frasier would be in the same category, in that they changed almost everything about the settings and most supporting characters but it was supposed to be a continuation of that character's story. 

Scrubs S9 would be an example of a show basically turning itself into a sequel, even subtitling itself "Scrubs: Med School" in some places. The whole show was changed with former stars making mostly guest appearances IIRC and no JD POV. 

Once Upon a Time S7 was basically the same thing. 

I initially thought you meant the masses of "revivals" with the original casts, which probably don't count like The Comeback, iCarly, Will and Grace, X Files, Rosanne (pre firing) etc since they're usually listed as simply adding to the original seasons. 

There are ones in the middle of straight continuation to sequel like Heroes Reborn and Leverage: Redemption. 

CSI: Vegas also seems to want to be both a sequel and revival/continuation. 

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On 12/9/2021 at 9:02 PM, Dani said:

The Facts of Life

Yeah once Jo and Blair graduated high school, they kinda lost the "girls attending a private school and their house mother" idea.   Then it became 4 girls and their mentor run various businesses.   Until they just ... live all together.   I loved the show, but the idea that 4 girls, including one very wealthy one would all live in one room for YEARS was more than a little unreal.   I mean Blair could have bought a house and they all could have lived there and had their own rooms, and been the Golden Girls, pre-menopause.

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12 hours ago, magicdog said:

The season before L&S left for CA the show was starting to slip and I think the two parter with them in the Army (with Vicki Lawrence as their CO!) was a potential reworking of the show.  I also think that was why they had the cartoon which had them in the military with Sqealy ("A commanding pig?") and later The Fonz!  Cocaine must have been involved! 

I really hated TPTB for letting L&S go so far off track.  The fact Shirley and Carmine didn't marry was unforgivable!

I agree that the fifth year of L&S - the final Milwaukee season - was the beginning of the decline. The “girls” started showing their age - seemed a little old to be living together (Penny was in her late 30s by that point). Aside from the Lenny and Squiggy, the supporting cast wasn’t great. There was way too much Frank and Edna. And the show really started losing its late 50s/early 60s charm.

What they really should have done was marry both girls off and have them live next door to each other. And cast a husband for Laverne who was an interesting characters in his own right.

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7 hours ago, Kyle said:

And the show really started losing its late 50s/early 60s charm.

Happy Days was the same.  Drove me crazy seeing people looking more like the late 70s than early 60s.

7 hours ago, Kyle said:

What they really should have done was marry both girls off and have them live next door to each other. And cast a husband for Laverne who was an interesting characters in his own right.

Or perhaps ended the series that way much sooner than they did.  Part of the charm of the series was seeing the two of them on their own in an era when few women did that.  If they had married them, I would have paired Laverne with Sal Molina (the sailor who really had chemistry with Laverne but Shirley ruined it by claiming she wasn't in love because she didn't get goosebumps when they kissed - UGH!) and Naturally have Shirley finally marry Carmine.

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11 hours ago, magicdog said:

Or perhaps ended the series that way much sooner than they did.  Part of the charm of the series was seeing the two of them on their own in an era when few women did that. 

Great point. The end game for that series should have been that the women no longer live together because one - or both - moved out. Even though Cindy Williams was not on the show when Shirley was written out, it was still a somewhat effective episode where Laverne returns home to find that Shirley has hastily moved out because her husband was transferred overseas. Shirley leaves a heartfelt note where she says it’s not goodbye, it’s just so long for now. It’s pretty touching though sad. The rest of that season, of course, should have not been done.

Another revamp (also about two women living together): The Lucy Show. The first half of the series was about two women and their respective children sharing a house. The second half of the series finds most of the supporting cast written out and it’s just Lucy working for Mr Mooney at the bank. Granted, the revamp lasted more than a year, but with in a three network universe and a star of Lucille Ball’s caliber, I think a revamp of Lucy reading the phone book every week would have gotten ratings.

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55 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

Joanie loves Chachi flamed out.  It was a sequel to Happy Days.  

No. It was a spin-off because it aired at the same time and both characters still appeared on Happy Days. When it was cancelled, they returned only to break up and then get married at the end of the series.

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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9 hours ago, Kyle said:

a star of Lucille Ball’s caliber

For that matter, her original series might fit the category as well.  On I Love Lucy, the last season has everyone moved to Connecticut, and then it segues into being an hour-long series with guest stars.

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1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

No. It was a spin-off because it aired at the same time and both characters still appeared on Happy Days. When it was cancelled, they returned only to break up and then get married at the end of the series.

Yep, no coincidence that when Joanie married Chachi, that was the end of everyone's Happy Days

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On 12/9/2021 at 8:17 PM, Raja said:

The last season of the A-Team added a non Vietnam veteran member and had them go from free lance equalizing to working for a secret government type.

And it didn't last very long after that-- just those 1986 episodes, and one in 1987, and The A-Team was done for.

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Too Close for Comfort had a sequel series, The Ted Knight Show. They moved Knight’s character and his wife from San Francisco to Marin County, where he ran a newspaper. And for a show that was born in ABC’s “jiggle” era, they inexplicably dropped the twentysomething daughters and added an elderly co-owner on the newspaper for Knight to spar with. Lydia Cornell, who played one of the daughters, has since said that Knight hated the attention that the daughters got.

The new show lasted a year and a second season was planned, but Knight passed away. They rolled the sequel series’ episodes into the Too Close syndication package.

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On 12/16/2021 at 5:44 PM, Kyle said:

Big news! According to TV Tattle, Hulu has “nabbed” streaming rights to The Golden Palace.

Hulu Nabs 1990s Golden Girls Spinoff The Golden Palace

Not sure that this is that big of a “nab”. Also, the story refers to Golden Palace as “treasured”. LOL.

I guess there might as much a market for that as there would be for iron pyrite ('fool's gold') or maybe it's the company's tax write off.

Still, I suppose viewers could watch it back to back with any Life with Lucy (1986) DVD's they might have at hand- while undergoing root canals! 

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Beverly Hills 90210 and One Tree Hill both handled the whole "what do we do with a high school show when graduation hits" pretty well, I think. Bev introduced Val and One Tree Hill skipped over the college years. (PLL and Riverdale both did this but not as well, I think.)

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I think I have one that fits. "The Torklesons" was an NBC sitcom in the 1990s that featured Connie Ray as Millicent Torkelson, a poor, single mom with five kids struggling to make ends meet in a small town in Oklahoma. She takes in a boarder, and her eldest daughter talks to the "man in the moon" to share her dreams and desires (not in a crazy way).

The next season, Millicent has taken a job. With her three children in tow, she moves to Seattle to become the nanny for a rich widower (Perry King) with two teenage children. The series is now called "Almost Home."

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On 12/16/2021 at 3:46 AM, bmasters9 said:

And it didn't last very long after that-- just those 1986 episodes, and one in 1987, and The A-Team was done for.

The last season of the A-team was the worst. The show added Robert Vaughn because he was George Peppard's friend. The new character Frankie Santana added nothing to the show.

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14 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

I think I have one that fits. "The Torklesons" was an NBC sitcom in the 1990s that featured Connie Ray as Millicent Torkelson, a poor, single mom with five kids struggling to make ends meet in a small town in Oklahoma. She takes in a boarder, and her eldest daughter talks to the "man in the moon" to share her dreams and desires (not in a crazy way).

The next season, Millicent has taken a job. With her three children in tow, she moves to Seattle to become the nanny for a rich widower (Perry King) with two teenage children. The series is now called "Almost Home."

Good example. I remember reading about the reduction in children and commenters on another board trying to make up narratives why the other two disappeared (“they went to live with their father!”). They couldn’t accept that the narrative was retconned so that those kids no longer existed, a la Chuck Cunningham.

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18 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

think I have one that fits. "The Torklesons" was an NBC sitcom in the 1990s that featured Connie Ray as Millicent Torkelson, a poor, single mom with five kids struggling to make ends meet in a small town in Oklahoma. She takes in a boarder, and her eldest daughter talks to the "man in the moon" to share her dreams and desires (not in a crazy way).

The next season, Millicent has taken a job. With her three children in tow, she moves to Seattle to become the nanny for a rich widower (Perry King) with two teenage children.

Would Facts of Life count when it was between seasons 1 and 2?  I remember when there were several more girls (including a young Molly RIngwald) but for some reason, TPTB chose to reduce the character load and set up the probation storyline and added streetwise Jo to the cast.  To their credit several of those actresses came to visit the current cast (minus Ringwald who had become a big movie star by then) some seasons later.

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25 minutes ago, magicdog said:

Would Facts of Life count when it was between seasons 1 and 2?  I remember when there were several more girls (including a young Molly RIngwald) but for some reason, TPTB chose to reduce the character load and set up the probation storyline and added streetwise Jo to the cast.  To their credit several of those actresses came to visit the current cast (minus Ringwald who had become a big movie star by then) some seasons later.

They revamped the show because of its super low ratings. Molly made one or two appearances in the second season; the other girls made about two or three.

They ditched the teacher, played by Jenny O'Hara; and super creepy head master Bradley. Of course season two only showed a different head master before recasting the third and final one, who was an annoying assfuck.

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7 hours ago, Kyle said:

I remember reading about the reduction in children and commenters on another board trying to make up narratives why the other two disappeared (“they went to live with their father!”). They couldn’t accept that the narrative was retconned so that those kids no longer existed, a la Chuck Cunningham.

It's just more fun to come up with a storyline as to why kids get Chucked. I like to think there is a boarding school out there in TV land where all these poor kids got shuttled off to because their family just didn't want them around anymore. It's especially fun if the actor moves on to another show and you can pretend that they were given a new identity and family, like it's not just a boarding school but a place people can go to find instant children. 

Same with soaps, when the kid goes off to school one day and comes back 10 years older. They just had a REALLY stressful day at school, or perhaps their science teacher tried a little experiment that went badly. lol

I liked some of the Facts of Life girls that got send off to the orphan farm but I also liked the ones they kept and I can see why they wanted a smaller cast of more defined (stereotyped) characters as it's easier to write for. 

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2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

They revamped the show because of its super low ratings. Molly made one or two appearances in the second season; the other girls made about two or three.

They ditched the teacher, played by Jenny O'Hara; and super creepy head master Bradley. Of course season two only showed a different head master before recasting the third and final one, who was an annoying assfuck.

I thought the producers handled the cast reduction as well as possible. The girls who were dropped as regulars didn’t just disappear - they did appear in a handful of episodes in the next season or two, as you pointed out. Molly Ringwald only did a single guest appearance and then stopped - she has since said in interviews that she found it humiliating to go from regular to recurring and her mother told her she didn’t have to do any more appearances. I thought it would have been nice for those girls to turn up at the graduation episode though.

Getting rid of Mr Bradley was a very good move - he was WAY too involved in the lives of those particular girls in Mrs Garrett’s care. Weirdo.

 

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The various iterations of "The Brady Bunch" also fits this category. After the original sitcom ended, the Bradys returned as musical/variety show hosts (with nuJan), then a Christmas movie (with nuCindy), and finally a "dramedy" (IIRC) with nuMarcia.

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2 hours ago, Kyle said:

 

Getting rid of Mr Bradley was a very good move - he was WAY too involved in the lives of those particular girls in Mrs Garrett’s care. Weirdo.

 

Yeah, Mr. Bradley even was seen watching television on the dormies' console! Didn't he have his OWN TV in his quarters?

Thankfully, all the other headmasters following him just visited the dorm (and cafeteria) on official business rather than spending their free time there! 

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On 12/27/2021 at 4:25 PM, SmithW6079 said:

The various iterations of "The Brady Bunch" also fits this category. After the original sitcom ended, the Bradys returned as musical/variety show hosts (with nuJan), then a Christmas movie (with nuCindy), and finally a "dramedy" (IIRC) with nuMarcia.

There was also a sitcom where Marcia and Jan have a double wedding and move into together with their husbands between the variety show and Christmas movie. 

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