S9.E25: Reunion Part 1

[druzy]

In Part 1 of the Reunion, Maci shares dating advice with Y&P’s Brianna while Cate & Ty discuss Rachel’s childhood trauma. Amber finds out information that sends her reeling while Cheyenne & Cory question if they are doing enough to make Ryder feel stable.

Airs November 30, 2021

[ginger90]

 

Clip:

 

[Mr. Miner]

Cate put your udders away, you’re not a real housewife.

[Mr. Miner]

Fucking hack Dr. Drew coddling repulsive AF Amber is more than I can take. 🖕🏻

[Quilty]

These people need to move on. They are almost 30 years old. Their struggles aren't real or interesting. Nothing they do is interesting. 

Cheyanne just has parties .

Amber is despicable. No redeeming qualities at all.

Maci 😴

Cate had another baby. Waiting for the "postpartum ". 

 

[Jeanne222]

So Amber got mad and walked off!

She always has to be the drama Queen!

That’s s why we don’t like you Amber!

[edie3]

STFU Amber. Gary is trying to do his best for Leah. Something you have no clue about. 

[eskimo]

Tyler completely cut Rachel off while she was telling her story and she wasn't able to get back to it.  Hasn't he had enough screen time over the last 13 years?  

Man, you can really see how old the OG's are when you put them next to the Y&P girls. 

[Soobs]

Gary is correct in withholding information from Amber. Dr. Drew calling it a mistake and then slightly pulling back saying Amber thought it was a mistake, was super gross. She is 100% not trustworthy. You could see her seething at her own kid because Leah makes her look bad. There's not more to it than that.

Cory is no longer human. He's just a reality personality. It's like he's a cardboard cutout, lol!

[Andyourlittledog2]

Well there's an hour I'll never get back. 

So the OG moms are sooooo together they can now 'give advice' to the Y&P women?  Good grief. 

The only reason I watched this (I never watch the reunions) was to see what Amber would say and she was on point for her.  All. About. Amber. She doesn't seem the slightest bit interested in what Leah wants or needs it's all about her as a 'mother' and what she wants. Gary was right to respect Leah's wishes about keeping things quiet. What 12 year old wants anyone to know this in the first place, especially when she has a mom who makes it all about her and would no doubt blast it on social media when she gets drunk some middle of the night. She is such a shitty human being. I hope her therapist isn't all about talking Leah into letting her mom break boundaries and pull her into her orbit.  What Amber wants and what's healthy for Leah are not the same thing at all.

[SilverLake0315]

I 100% do not fault Gary for keeping that info from Amber. It's what Leah requested and I believe he was right to honor that. I do think hitting Amber with it on camera was kinda shitty. He HAD to know that wouldn't go well.

[penbrat]

3 hours ago, SilverLake0315 said:

I 100% do not fault Gary for keeping that info from Amber. It's what Leah requested and I believe he was right to honor that. I do think hitting Amber with it on camera was kinda shitty. He HAD to know that wouldn't go well.

I used to try to root  for Amber but every time I did, she just dug herself a bigger hole.  Amber should be thanking her lucky stars for Gary.   He may not be perfect, but he stepped up to be a parent to Leah when Amber could not/would not.   I cannot imagine where Leah would be now without Gary and Kristine having at least provided her with love and some stability.  

Edited December 1, 2021 by penbrat

[Cosmocrush]

12 hours ago, edie3 said:

STFU Amber. Gary is trying to do his best for Leah. Something you have no clue about. 

I didn't really realize until I heard her say it but, "I'm the mother" sounded so strange coming from Amber.  Sure, she Leah's bio mother but she never really took care of her - not as a baby, a child, and now a middleschooler.    She completely overreacted, as usual. 

Why in the world would Gary break Leah's trust to CALL Amber and tell her Leah is seeing a therapist?!?   I'm fairly sure Amber doesn't bother to ever even call and check in with Gary or Leah but expects everyone to keep her informed about things that frankly are none of her business (or ours).   Someone should explain to Amber that she does not have a relationship with Leah at this point and that is 100% on Amber. 

[Cinnabon]

39 minutes ago, Cosmocrush said:

I didn't really realize until I heard her say it but, "I'm the mother" sounded so strange coming from Amber.  Sure, she Leah's bio mother but she never really took care of her - not as a baby, a child, and now a middleschooler.    She completely overreacted, as usual. 

Why in the world would Gary break Leah's trust to CALL Amber and tell her Leah is seeing a therapist?!?   I'm fairly sure Amber doesn't bother to ever even call and check in with Gary or Leah but expects everyone to keep her informed about things that frankly are none of her business (or ours).   Someone should explain to Amber that she does not have a relationship with Leah at this point and that is 100% on Amber. 

By continuing to allow Leah to be exploited on this show, he has made all of these very personal things the public’s business. He can’t have it both ways. Take her off the show Gary.

[Caseysgirl]

I tried but I just can’t!  I thought with the low ratings we would be donewith this but now they are planning a reboot with the OG’s providing advice for the girls who are actually teens?Pleeeeease no. They have no wisdom to impart other than teaching these girls how to wring a story line out of their wasted lives. Not even my morbid curiosity will allow me to hate watch this mess.

[Cosmocrush]

20 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

By continuing to allow Leah to be exploited on this show, he has made all of these very personal things the public’s business. He can’t have it both ways. Take her off the show Gary.

I agree but the other side of it is this show has allowed Gary to provide a nice, mostly stable life for Leah.  It's not like he cashed his MTV checks to financially support grifters he met on social media. 

In my opinion he's done a pretty good job of trying to straddle the line in protecting Leah and staying on the show.  I think it's one reason he let the conflict between Amber and him/Christina get so much attention - although Amber is the one that put it out there.  He did the Amber "living in a trailer on his property" story without involving Leah too.    That said, Leah is at the age where she really really needs her privacy and this entire show should be done. 

The most surprising thing Amber did last night was stand up and leave the couch - maybe they had another sofa standing by offstage for when she invariably stomps off and Drew goes after her.

15 hours ago, Mr. Miner said:

Fucking hack Dr. Drew coddling repulsive AF Amber is more than I can take. 🖕🏻

Right?   How about telling Tyler he should show Carly how upset he is?!?  Good grief Drew - I don't think he ever watched more than a few clips of this show.   And I hope Tyler doesn't start taking advice from this quack. 

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Cosmocrush

[Jeanne222]

2 hours ago, SilverLake0315 said:

I 100% do not fault Gary for keeping that info from Amber. It's what Leah requested and I believe he was right to honor that. I do think hitting Amber with it on camera was kinda shitty. He HAD to know that wouldn't go well.

I was thinking about that. I wish he hadn’t done it that way but…I’m guessing Gary, Kristina and Leah talked and knew Amber would try to make Gary look like a bad parent so go for it!

With that said the adults should be able to argue it out without disclosing Leahs personal business. The kids have enough being stuck on the show without telling the world they are in counseling!

Those parents say look at all the stuff you have because of the show. The kids want friends not more stuff and bigger homes. 

Too many of these show kids in therapy!

[Mr. Miner]

Is their a good way to tell Amber anything? You can't even have a normal conversation with this bitch.

[Jeanne222]

Why in heaven’s name do they keep Drew on these tell all reunion shows?

He’s terrible and his advice worthless!

[BrownBear2012]

2 hours ago, Cosmocrush said:

I agree but the other side of it is this show has allowed Gary to provide a nice, mostly stable life for Leah.  It's not like he cashed his MTV checks to financially support grifters he met on social media. 

In my opinion he's done a pretty good job of trying to straddle the line in protecting Leah and staying on the show.  I think it's one reason he let the conflict between Amber and him/Christina get so much attention - although Amber is the one that put it out there.  He did the Amber "living in a trailer on his property" story without involving Leah too.    That said, Leah is at the age where she really really needs her privacy and this entire show should be done. 

The most surprising thing Amber did last night was stand up and leave the couch - maybe they had another sofa standing by offstage for when she invariably stomps off and Drew goes after her.

Right?   How about telling Tyler he should show Carly how upset he is?!?  Good grief Drew - I don't think he ever watched more than a few clips of this show.   And I hope Tyler doesn't start taking advice from this quack. 

 

Agree 100% with everything you said. I too, was appalled with Dr. Drew's awful comments and "advice"... Tyler is way too emotional about Carly. He's not nearly as emotional about the three children he has in his own home. And telling Tyler to verbalize his "feelings" to Carly was reckless and stupid. No Dr. Drew...Tyler is the adult and the bio parent...he needs to control his emotions and thank Carly for coming to see them and sharing time with her sisters. That's it. Exposing his emotions to her is confusing and unsettling to a child...this isn't about you Tyler...it's about spending some time with Carly, saying goodbye and each family going back to their own homes and living their lives...end of issue. Be grateful that Brandon and Teresa arranged this get together and move on. You have three girls at home that need attention...deal with that. Dr. Drew isn't a child psychologist. He's barely a physician. He lacks the expertise to opine on a topic like this. And Cate...please put your breasts away...you look like a floozy.

2 hours ago, Mr. Miner said:

Is their a good way to tell Amber anything? You can't even have a normal conversation with this bitch.

Right? Later she'll blame her behavior on her "mental illnesses'.

[BrownBear2012]

On 11/27/2021 at 7:27 PM, ginger90 said:

 

Clip:

 

OMG! Farrah must be desperate for some airtime if she's back on MTV. And plugging this "Teen Mom/TeenMom 2" reunion show no less. No one has missed you and your mess...just go away...please.

[BrownBear2012]

2 hours ago, Caseysgirl said:

I tried but I just can’t!  I thought with the low ratings we would be donewith this but now they are planning a reboot with the OG’s providing advice for the girls who are actually teens?Pleeeeease no. They have no wisdom to impart other than teaching these girls how to wring a story line out of their wasted lives. Not even my morbid curiosity will allow me to hate watch this mess.

Honestly, this reeked of self promotion on MTV's part putting these Young and Pregnant moms on this reunion. It was shameless and stupid. Don't know what the ratings are for this show but obviously if MTV is jetting all these girls to New York or  LA to tape they must need to boost up viewership by piggybacking them onto a Teen Mom reunion show. They were all trainwrecks and haven't we seen this before on Teen Mom and TM2??? Tyler will outshout and over talk on anyone when it comes to his "trauma" as a child of a drug addicted father. One question Dr. Drew should have asked Tyler is how is Butch doing these days and where is he? Nary a peep about him all season. Enquiring minds need to know!

[BrownBear2012]

17 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

So Amber got mad and walked off!

She always has to be the drama Queen!

That’s s why we don’t like you Amber!

She should be fired for walking off...that should be in the contract for every girl on these shows. You walk off the reunion show you're fired. MTV spends a lot of money transporting these divas and their significant others to these reunion shows and pays for their lodging, meals etc. They have to hire make up and wardrobe people to get them all glammed up for the tapings...and they are allowed to just walk off? Come on MTV...put your foot down and give these girls boundaries and then enforce them. Enough is enough from Amber and all the other little divas that stomp off when they don't like something being said.

Edited December 1, 2021 by BrownBear2012

[BrownBear2012]

14 hours ago, Soobs said:

Gary is correct in withholding information from Amber. Dr. Drew calling it a mistake and then slightly pulling back saying Amber thought it was a mistake, was super gross. She is 100% not trustworthy. You could see her seething at her own kid because Leah makes her look bad. There's not more to it than that.

Cory is no longer human. He's just a reality personality. It's like he's a cardboard cutout, lol!

Cory...wow...he really thinks he's the shizz. He was so wound up and full of himself I don't know where to begin. He seems to be in a competition with Cheyenne. She just had a second baby, is engaged and getting married. Seems like the pressure is on from Cory's baby mama to deliver the same to her. His hyper masculinity/virility was on full display last night..."I want to a have a tribe of kids...more babies" Ugh..this guy is just another Teen Mom asshole.

[Cosmocrush]

43 minutes ago, BrownBear2012 said:

Cory...wow...he really thinks he's the shizz. He was so wound up and full of himself I don't know where to begin. He seems to be in a competition with Cheyenne. She just had a second baby, is engaged and getting married. Seems like the pressure is on from Cory's baby mama to deliver the same to her. His hyper masculinity/virility was on full display last night..."I want to a have a tribe of kids...more babies" Ugh..this guy is just another Teen Mom asshole.

I liked Cheyenne more than ever when he finished all that and she just laughed and said, "You're a fool."   Heh.  Yep.  I've seen worse on this show but he's still a single guy who loves having kids as long as someone else (in this case Chey and Taylor) does the heavy lifting. 

Also exactly what is his role on The Challenge?  I've never seen it but I thought it was a competition show with MTV reality show grads.  How is it that Cory is on it enough that he thinks of it as his j.o.b.?   Is he the host or something?  It's been a few years and he's stlll doing it.  Maybe he needs a real estate license too?   Anyway, can someone explain this for me?  Thanks. 

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Cosmocrush

[Poohbear617]

Okay I'm not sure if this is the right place to put it but since it happened on the show I'm going to put it here. What the f*** was Rachel wearing did she think she was going to the prom of some kind the necklace the sparkly dress compared to everybody else and just casual clothes I was just looking at her like what were you thinking but then again it is Rachel the complete dumpster fire

[Andyourlittledog2]

Yeah, Rachel has a 'style' that is very unusual. I think she thinks it's pretty. I do not understand that.  But then again my choice of long hair, blue jeans, and vintage clothes drove my mother to complete distraction. I'm just glad I had boys.

[Snarky McSnarky]

6 hours ago, BrownBear2012 said:

Honestly, this reeked of self promotion on MTV's part putting these Young and Pregnant moms on this reunion. It was shameless and stupid. Don't know what the ratings are for this show but obviously if MTV is jetting all these girls to New York or  LA to tape they must need to boost up viewership by piggybacking them onto a Teen Mom reunion show. They were all trainwrecks and haven't we seen this before on Teen Mom and TM2??? Tyler will outshout and over talk on anyone when it comes to his "trauma" as a child of a drug addicted father. One question Dr. Drew should have asked Tyler is how is Butch doing these days and where is he? Nary a peep about him all season. Enquiring minds need to know!

Reunion shows don't draw many viewers compared to the regular season, but 348,000 is particularly low.

Also, Tyler and Corey are obnoxious assholes who are way too full of themselves, as neither has actually accomplished anything in life.

https://showbuzzdaily.com/articles/showbuzzdailys-tuesday-11-30-2021-top-150-cable-originals-network-finals-to-come.html

 

 

[Marisagf]

Finally watched the reunion.
What is wrong with Maci’s face? 
Also, remember during that awkward dinner when Taylor told her that he couldn’t imagine life without Maci and the kids?  (Or something like that.) And she said something about how if he left her it would just be her and Bentley.  What about the other kids? Bentley is obviously her favorite. What was that about?

Did Catelynn actually imply that Rachel had it worse growing up than she did?  There was something in her tone and what she started to say, but didn’t.

Has there ever been a reunion where Amber hasn’t walked off?  Lather, rinse, repeat.

I got nothin’ for Cheyenne except Cory is nutty.

Whoever said it was right: the OG girls look so old compared to the Y & P girls!  I know there is an obvious age difference, but I chalk it up to hard living!

Edited December 2, 2021 by Marisagf

[Jeanne222]

5 hours ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

Yeah, Rachel has a 'style' that is very unusual. I think she thinks it's pretty. I do not understand that.  But then again my choice of long hair, blue jeans, and vintage clothes drove my mother to complete distraction. I'm just glad I had boys.

Yes thank your lucky stars boys says me...the mother of girls!!!!

[lilmarysunshine]

11 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

By continuing to allow Leah to be exploited on this show, he has made all of these very personal things the public’s business. He can’t have it both ways. Take her off the show Gary.

Party of one here and I am loathe to admit it but I agree with Amber. Like it or not, Amber is her mother and should have been told about it privately, imo, and not in front of the cameras. 

Gary and Kristina are NOT good parents just because they put all of Leah’s shit out for public consumption. And they would not have the spot on the show if it was not for Amber.

Now I will see myself out. 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by lilmarysunshine

[BrownBear2012]

6 hours ago, Poohbear617 said:

Okay I'm not sure if this is the right place to put it but since it happened on the show I'm going to put it here. What the f*** was Rachel wearing did she think she was going to the prom of some kind the necklace the sparkly dress compared to everybody else and just casual clothes I was just looking at her like what were you thinking but then again it is Rachel the complete dumpster fire

All these girls dressed in horrible clothing...yikes! I think they all must have gone to a Forever 21 clearance sale.

[Marisagf]

7 hours ago, BrownBear2012 said:

All these girls dressed in horrible clothing...yikes! I think they all must have gone to a Forever 21 clearance sale.

Or a Forever Haute fire sale!

[Mr. Miner]

7 hours ago, lilmarysunshine said:

Gary and Kristina are NOT good parents just because they put all of Leah’s shit out for public consumption. And they would not have the spot on the show if it was not for Amber.

Now I will see myself out. 

Can you imagine having oxygen thief Amber in your life? Sitting on her couch making $300K per season while you're doing all the heavy lifting. I don't agree with everything Gary and Kristina do but I think they're doing the best they can. Maybe if Amber had custody of Leah, Gary wouldn't have to be on the show much. She doesn't have custody of her kids and she needs them on the show as much as they need her. If it was me, I would have moved as far away from her sorry ass as I could years ago.

[Jeanne222]

I hate reunions.  When I see these low life, poorly educated, non working fat butts getting out of limousines and marching into hair and makeup I could hurl!

Then we get to listen to them pontificate about things they can barely understand.

Why do I watch you ask!

 "We're all mad here!" Says the Cheshire Cat in Alice In Wonderland !

[Cosmocrush]

14 hours ago, Marisagf said:

Also, remember during that awkward dinner when Taylor told her that he couldn’t imagine life without Maci and the kids?  (Or something like that.) And she said something about how if he left her it would just be her and Bentley.  What about the other kids? Bentley is obviously her favorite. What was that about?

Taylor said he couldn't imagine his life if he hadn't met  met Maci.  And if they never met the two little ones they have together wouldn't exist so it would just be Maci and Bentley just like before they met Taylor. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Cosmocrush

[StatisticalOutlier]

15 hours ago, lilmarysunshine said:

Party of one here and I am loathe to admit it but I agree with Amber. Like it or not, Amber is her mother and should have been told about it privately, imo, and not in front of the cameras.

I think I'll split the difference.  Gary has no obligation to tell Amber, but if that's what he chooses to do, then he shouldn't then tell the world, much less with Amber sitting right there.

Edited December 2, 2021 by StatisticalOutlier

[Cinnabon]

9 hours ago, Mr. Miner said:

Can you imagine having oxygen thief Amber in your life? Sitting on her couch making $300K per season while you're doing all the heavy lifting. I don't agree with everything Gary and Kristina do but I think they're doing the best they can. Maybe if Amber had custody of Leah, Gary wouldn't have to be on the show much. She doesn't have custody of her kids and she needs them on the show as much as they need her. If it was me, I would have moved as far away from her sorry ass as I could years ago.

But they ARE to blame for keeping Leah on this show for too many years, just because they don’t want to work to support her. Amber wouldn’t have custody even if Gary and Kristina both worked full time outside the home.  I agree that moving far away from Amber would also be a positive!

9 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

I hate reunions.  When I see these low life, poorly educated, non working fat butts getting out of limousines and marching into hair and makeup I could hurl!

Then we get to listen to them pontificate about things they can barely understand.

Why do I watch you ask!

 "We're all mad here!" Says the Cheshire Cat in Alice In Wonderland !

The only way to get them off TV is for more people to stop watching. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Cinnabon

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 12/1/2021 at 11:34 AM, Caseysgirl said:

I tried but I just can’t!  I thought with the low ratings we would be donewith this but now they are planning a reboot with the OG’s providing advice for the girls who are actually teens?Pleeeeease no. They have no wisdom to impart other than teaching these girls how to wring a story line out of their wasted lives.

I'd say that's pretty important wisdom, if your job is being on MTV.  Maybe we can have Teen Mom: Mentor Edition.

[lilmarysunshine]

9 hours ago, Mr. Miner said:

Can you imagine having oxygen thief Amber in your life? Sitting on her couch making $300K per season while you're doing all the heavy lifting. I don't agree with everything Gary and Kristina do but I think they're doing the best they can. Maybe if Amber had custody of Leah, Gary wouldn't have to be on the show much. She doesn't have custody of her kids and she needs them on the show as much as they need her. If it was me, I would have moved as far away from her sorry ass as I could years ago.

But the thing is … I guess I am just not motivated that much by money. (Would not be a teacher if I was!) 

No amount of money would be worth selling my child’s privacy. I would rather work normal jobs.  At least it is good Kristina is working on becoming a nurse. Maybe that is part of a plan to wean themselves off the TM teat. I doubt it, though. I actually think Gary LOVES the attention. In some ways he is like TM2 Leah - always explaining his thought process aloud so we can all see and marvel at what an involved, concerned father he is. 

Probably Kristina’s oldest daughter prevents them from moving, too. IIRC, she does not have the most accommodating ex. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by lilmarysunshine

[Cinnabon]

6 minutes ago, lilmarysunshine said:

But the thing is … I guess I am just not motivated that much by money. (Would not be a teacher if I was!) 

No amount of money would be worth selling my child’s privacy. I would rather work normal jobs.  At least it is good Kristina is working on becoming a nurse. Maybe that is part of a plan to wean themselves off the TM teat. I doubt it, though. I actually think Gary LOVES the attention. In some ways he is like TM2 Leah - always explaining his thought process aloud so we can all see and marvel at what an involved, concerned father he is. 

Probably Kristina’s oldest daughter prevents them from moving, too. IIRC, she does not have the most accommodating ex. 

No parent should accommodate their child’s exploitation. Her ex seems ethical and moral to me. 

[lilmarysunshine]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

No parent should accommodate their child’s exploitation. Her ex seems ethical and moral to me. 

Yep. Look at the scrutiny they put Leah through compared to Kristina’s daughter, who has kept her privacy.

When Gary was explaining Leah did not want anyone to know about the therapist, but here he is discussing it on worldwide TV! Puhlease. Oh, she gave her permission. @@ The girl knows her family’s income relies on this “storyline,” aka her troubled relationship with Amber. What pressure to put on her. Shameful. 

[MaggieG]

I wish Tyler had shut the hell up and let Rachel tell her story because we were finally getting some insight into her childhood and what she and her siblings went through. We knew she was raised by her grandma but I wanted to hear more about how her and Stephanie were "partying together." It does make a little more sense that her and Mallory get mad when Stephanie tries to parent, hearing that apparently she didn't give a crap before. I don't thank Cate and Tyler even cared to hear about Rachel and her issues, they just wanted to get their "trauma" talking points across. 

I cannot with Drew coddling Amber. He asked her twice "how are you, you look like you're shutting down." You know Amber is deliberately looking uninterested so someone can ask her what is wrong with her. She thrives on the attention. Notice that Leah going to therapy was all about her. 

[ginger90]

Clip:

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CW80pSqgWyQ/

[Inga]

Guys….I’m kind of looking forward to the reunion special with all the teen moms..does that not look good??  Ugh, i hate myself.  Anyway, i never watch the reunions because i can’t with Dr Drew and rewatching all the clips. And does anyone actually watch Young and Pregnant? I mean they really scraped the bottom of the barrel for that cast. 

[Jeanne222]

Honestly I think production has Amber behave like this. It’s all a role they are playing!

[eskimo]

On 11/30/2021 at 7:19 PM, Quilty said:

These people need to move on. They are almost 30 years old. Their struggles aren't real or interesting. Nothing they do is interesting. 

 

I should see if I can get MTV to add my mom to the cast.  She's 64 now, but was a teen mom 46 years ago.  By MTV's definition wouldn't she be a teen mom?  😅

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 12/4/2021 at 4:55 PM, Inga said:

And does anyone actually watch Young and Pregnant?

https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/122609-all-episodes-discussion/#comments

There are a few of us persons of discerning taste mega-losers out there. 

Quote

I mean they really scraped the bottom of the barrel for that cast. 

That's my excuse.

[Jeanne222]

2 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/122609-all-episodes-discussion/#comments

There are a few of us persons of discerning taste mega-losers out there. 

That's my excuse.

I confess.  I watch it too!  I will say there must have been mighty slim pickings on volunteers!

[Marisagf]

I watch it, too!  But I only watch Kayla, Brianna, and Rachel.  I fast-forward through Kiaya and the newer Kayla.