S01.E08: Origins

[PBnJay]

If I saw Gavin peeking through the window of my house, I would totally freak out and call the cops STAT. Guy has serious stalker/homeless/thief/serial killer looks. He needs to get down that sinkhole so he can take a shower. 

And I guess with all the other senseless things happening on this show, it's not out of line that young Gavin is a bright-blond towhead while adult Gavin has dark complexion and jet-black hair and that stupid jet-black beard left over from when he was a doctor and rode a motorcycle.

That sinkhole ship could have been one of Magellan's or Blackbeard's. Although I do like that it could be The Love Boat. Haven't seen Captain Stubbing for a while.

[shapeshifter]

26 minutes ago, PBnJay said:

And I guess with all the other senseless things happening on this show, it's not out of line that young Gavin is a bright-blond towhead while adult Gavin has dark complexion and jet-black hair and that stupid jet-black beard left over from when he was a doctor and rode a motorcycle

My mom always talked about her little brother being "a towhead" when he was little. As an adult he had nearly black hair. 

[ICantDoThatDave]

The problem is that In Real Life stuff like that can happen, absolutely.  But in fiction, it needs to be consistent, or else viewers are like "aw, come on!".

"Blonde kid in real life has black hair later", totally happens in real life.

"Blonde kid in your fiction turns out to be black hair character in your fiction later", is a "come on, show!! [:rollseyes:]" reaction in fiction from the readers/viewers. Justifiably so.  EDIT: I'm not gonna look it up, but I think it's a Mark Twain quote: "truth is stranger than fiction."

Edited November 18, 2021 by ICantDoThatDave

[mythoughtis]

Silas and Isiah (Gavin) were relatively  new to the village / according to Isaiah.  So where did they come from and when?  Rebecca knew Silas.  So is she his daughter in law and Gavins’ mother?  How does  she know that he is Isaiah and that he ended up in 1988? 
I’m assuming Lily is the 12  year old found with child Gavin.  We would know for sure if Gavin and the government woman had asked the person who found them to describe the girl.  

[KaveDweller]

2 hours ago, ICantDoThatDave said:

It's possible, in-show that's the case, but unless they explicitly say so I wouldn't assume that, so it's still an outstanding question.  You can be back walking with a prosthetic in min 3 months.  And she's really comfortable with it, handling stairs like a champ even.  Do we know how old she was when it happened at this point (EDIT: the character, not the actress - she was 13)?  I may have missed it.

Izzy's accident only a couple years ago. Because it happened when Eve was sleeping with Levi, and that started after Gavin's accident 3 years ago.

2 hours ago, PBnJay said:

That sinkhole ship could have been one of Magellan's or Blackbeard's. Although I do like that it could be The Love Boat. Haven't seen Captain Stubbing for a while.

It has to be relatively recent for the Sinkhole People to know modern English.

[chlban]

12 hours ago, chaifan said:

Hey, look!  We built a greenhouse!  Big enough for a single 10' long row of vegetables that don't grow real high.  Yeah, that will be enough to feed 30+ people.  I'm just waiting for Scott to find a fully intact pot dispensary that fell through the hole.  That would actually make all of these characters a bit easier to bear.

So, the Village People went through a lot of effort to build a 20' wall and giant gate (still no reason why that was necessary, instead of a regular sized door), but only built it around the front of the village?  Leaving the back, specifically the garden with all of their food, open to giant sloths, other predators and thieves?  There was no wall in sight when they were at the garden, and the view extended pretty damn far. 

Ship theories - not sure if Nazi's fit the timeline, but making it a military ship would make sense for why they didn't get along with the Village People.  Though if they were military, they would have had guns and probably vehicles, and would have easily won any fight with the Village People and wiped them out.  So maybe not military...  But I'm not buying the Titanic theory.  Even for this show, that would be a bit too far fetched.  (I can't believe I just wrote that sentence.)  Assuming the body of water the ship's sinkhole was in existed in 10kBC, wouldn't the ship still be in the water?  And if so, how did they happen upon the Village?  Downtown LA is what, at least 10 miles from the ocean.  And, on that note, why would any group of people so (relatively) close to a major water (and thus, food) source, not locate their Village on the water. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was a bit thrown momentarily by your references to "The Village People". I am old, so many of you may not remember that actually singing group by that name. Every member dressed in costume, so I was picturing this already truly wierd group mingling with the group. As nuts as this show is, I wouldn't even be surprised.

 

Just now, chlban said:

I was a bit thrown momentarily by your references to "The Village People". I am old, so many of you may not remember that there actually was singing group by that name. Every member dressed in costume, so I was picturing this already truly weird group mingling with the musical group. As nuts as this show is, I wouldn't even be surprised.

 

 

[LittleIggy]

Too bad a supermarket didn’t fall through the hole.

[Dowel Jones]

5 hours ago, ICantDoThatDave said:

Oh, also, the people on the ship taught them (perfect) English,

We should be grateful that it wasn't a bunch of surfers and stereotyped teens that landed there, like, right, dude?

[circumvent]

On 11/17/2021 at 12:43 AM, LittleIggy said:

Little Isaiah is too cute to grow up to be Gavin!

I was waiting to see if anyone noticed that too. Really bad casting there. 

 

On 11/17/2021 at 2:57 AM, Dowel Jones said:

That little contraption was about as sturdy as Drug Dealer's Den.

They have a truck and a bus. Much better options for a greenhouse

 

18 hours ago, kirkola said:

Is it just me or is Gavin taking this "my wife and my best friend affair" a little too calmly considering he is having visions of them holding hands and what not? 

To me the failure was that he said - they were eating, there was a table. No mention of "which table?" Are they in a restaurant? Who are those people behind them looking like a weird viking version? Nope, all he noticed was the holding hands part.

[mythoughtis]

Has anyone noticed that there were  zero bodies from the sinkhole event itself?  The only burials have been the people that were killed afterwards.  There are also enough vehicles for people to sleep in that are not their own vehicles.  Yet no one asks where those people are. 
They now have a working vehicle. Why haven’t they done an inventory of all the scattered debris ( like that semi full of clothing).   

[Cobb Salad]

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

Has anyone noticed that there were  zero bodies from the sinkhole event itself?  The only burials have been the people that were killed afterwards.  There are also enough vehicles for people to sleep in that are not their own vehicles.  Yet no one asks where those people are. 
They now have a working vehicle. Why haven’t they done an inventory of all the scattered debris ( like that semi full of clothing).   

I believe there was a shot in either the first or second episode of someone dead at the wheel of their car.  Yeah, there should have been way more casualties along with a lot more debris.  

[izabella]

I can handwave that debris and dead people were scattered all over, and since these fools have not done much exploring, have no idea if there are other groups of survivors elsewhere.  No doubt we will run into some new group in the future, just like Gilligan's Island always had other people on the island, or the Tailies on Lost.

Edited November 18, 2021 by izabella

[shapeshifter]

39 minutes ago, Cobb Salad said:

I believe there was a shot in either the first or second episode of someone dead at the wheel of their car.  Yeah, there should have been way more casualties along with a lot more debris.  

Heh, this show is like Murder She Wrote with regards to dead bodies. A teaspoon of blood and then poof.

About Veronica not using the car horn: I am fanwanking that the car battery was dead.
Or should I say something like: I am hate-watch-excusing that the car battery was dead?

[Cobb Salad]

3 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Heh, this show is like Murder She Wrote with regards to dead bodies. A teaspoon of blood and then poof.

About Veronica not using the car horn: I am fanwanking that the car battery was dead.
Or should I say something like: I am hate-watch-excusing that the car battery was dead?

That winter storm that blew through in the prior episode made it so cold it killed all the car batteries.  Plus, that car hadn’t been started in a while so it can’t be started.   That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. 😆

[proserpina65]

15 hours ago, PBnJay said:

And I guess with all the other senseless things happening on this show, it's not out of line that young Gavin is a bright-blond towhead while adult Gavin has dark complexion and jet-black hair and that stupid jet-black beard left over from when he was a doctor and rode a motorcycle.

Having seen pictures of my dark-haired as an adult mother where she's a little platinum blonde girl of 6 or so, I can buy the hair difference.  The complexion, however . . . 

Possibly unpopular opinion: I don't think Seal Team Dad was wrong to handcuff Veronica to the steering wheel while trying to figure out what to do with her longer term.  She'd already attacked Ty and was trying to get Lilly to go hide in a cave with her.  What was he supposed to do - let her wander around freely?

[proserpina65]

On 11/17/2021 at 10:46 AM, kirkola said:

I think I prefer Baby Gavin/Isaiah over the adult version, even with the weirdly blonde hair and lack of the Irish accent. 

Why would Isaiah have an Irish accent?  His "grandfather" is Australian, not Irish.  (Well, the actor is, at least.)

19 hours ago, Lugal said:

My next guess, Silas was from the Civil War and he brought the gold that Levi found.  It sounded like the actor was either trying to cover an accent or effect a different accent

The actor, Mark Lee, is Australian.  Once upon a time, he and Mel Gibson were the stars of the Peter Weir masterpiece Gallipoli.

[kirkola]

1 hour ago, proserpina65 said:

Why would Isaiah have an Irish accent?  His "grandfather" is Australian, not Irish.  (Well, the actor is, at least.)

The actor, Mark Lee, is Australian.  Once upon a time, he and Mel Gibson were the stars of the Peter Weir masterpiece Gallipoli.

Because the actor playing Adult Gavin is Irish and he can't quite lose the accent.  I certainly don't mind.  Accents don't usually bother me too much.  It's just a minor continuity issue.  Especially since character-wise, the child apparently was raised with modern accents and a slight Australian accent.  Like I said, it's a minor continuity issue, but where did Adult Gavin pick up the slight Irish accent is currently has.

Also, I remember liking Gallipoli.  But it's been many years now, so it may not be as good as I remember.

[proserpina65]

2 hours ago, kirkola said:

Because the actor playing Adult Gavin is Irish and he can't quite lose the accent.  I certainly don't mind.  Accents don't usually bother me too much.  It's just a minor continuity issue.  Especially since character-wise, the child apparently was raised with modern accents and a slight Australian accent.  Like I said, it's a minor continuity issue, but where did Adult Gavin pick up the slight Irish accent is currently has.

Also, I remember liking Gallipoli.  But it's been many years now, so it may not be as good as I remember.

I didn't realize that about Adult Gavin.  That makes sense.

Gallipoli stood up to its reputation the last time I watched, about 3 years ago.  I still bawled at the end.

[iMonrey]

Quote

So, sixty years before Paara's time, a passenger ship fell through a sinkhole in the ocean, somehow (I'm guessing some kind of giant whirlpool), and the survivors ended up there.  So the ship could be from any time, really.  But after years of warfare, they managed to come together with the Native peoples and form a new society (I'm guessing the passenger ship had a few hundred people and about the same number of natives in the area).  I'm going to assume it was a ship from an English-speaking country since that's the language that caught on (and with no signs of any kind of pidgin or creole languages either).

Maybe I missed something but that's not what I got out of the story she told. Whoever came out of the ocean sinkhole (?!) went to war with her people and that's why they are so hostile to outsiders and newcomers. I don't recall if she said what became of the people from the ship. She certainly didn't mention learning English from them. Nobody has brought that up yet. And if they did finally make peace with these people and integrated them into their group(s) then why are they still so hostile towards newcomers, especially when they outnumber them by a huge margin? 

[chaifan]

4 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Possibly unpopular opinion: I don't think Seal Team Dad was wrong to handcuff Veronica to the steering wheel while trying to figure out what to do with her longer term.  She'd already attacked Ty and was trying to get Lilly to go hide in a cave with her.  What was he supposed to do - let her wander around freely?

Well, there are 30 some other people there, almost all full grown adults.  Someone else could watch/guard her.  At least tell someone else what is going by and have them stand by the car.  Or, they have that giant bus they're not doing much with.  Put her in there and have one person at each exit. 

I hate it when shows have smart people do stupid things just for plot purposes.  It's lazy writing. 

My guess earlier is that they're going to use this trauma for her to face her life as a kidnap victim and come to her senses.  If they don't do that, or at least use it for some purpose, then it all was just a waste of screen time and didn't matter.

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

About Veronica not using the car horn: I am fanwanking that the car battery was dead.
Or should I say something like: I am hate-watch-excusing that the car battery was dead?

Yeah, still waiting for an explanation as to why none of the cars worked.  If all the phones were dead, too, I'd buy into some EM field type thing as you went through the rift. 

And, yes, I'm right here with you hate watching this show.  I'm not sure if I've stuck around so long with a show I had so many complaints about before.  I think I'm having so much fun ripping on the show, and reading others do the same here, and that's what I'll miss out on if I stop watching. 

 

[Lugal]

23 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Maybe I missed something but that's not what I got out of the story she told. Whoever came out of the ocean sinkhole (?!) went to war with her people and that's why they are so hostile to outsiders and newcomers. I don't recall if she said what became of the people from the ship. She certainly didn't mention learning English from them. Nobody has brought that up yet. And if they did finally make peace with these people and integrated them into their group(s) then why are they still so hostile towards newcomers, especially when they outnumber them by a huge margin?

It was kind of inconsistent.  First they say that the survivors of the ship and the Natives went to war and that's why they distrust outsiders.  Then they're like there's lots of other villages and sure, we'll introduce you.  I remember Paara did say that eventually after the wars the two peoples did come together into a new society. As for why they're hostile to newcomers, who knows, although remembering previous history could give them enough reason to be distrustful.

No one mentioned learning English, but that was my assumption since Paara seemed to imply the ship was the first contact moment. 

[KaveDweller]

7 hours ago, Cobb Salad said:

I believe there was a shot in either the first or second episode of someone dead at the wheel of their car.  Yeah, there should have been way more casualties along with a lot more debris.  

When someone in the present was watching TV, the banner mentioned several dozen missing in sinkhole disaster. So regardless of whether people survived or not, it seems not that many are missing.

Which is weird. Entire buildings fell into the sinkhole, there should have been people inside them that are included in that. Not to mention they were sitting in bumper to bumper traffic when the sinkhole opened up. Are we supposed to think almost everyone got out and ran away fast enough to be safe?

5 hours ago, kirkola said:

Because the actor playing Adult Gavin is Irish and he can't quite lose the accent.  I certainly don't mind.  Accents don't usually bother me too much.  It's just a minor continuity issue.  Especially since character-wise, the child apparently was raised with modern accents and a slight Australian accent.  Like I said, it's a minor continuity issue, but where did Adult Gavin pick up the slight Irish accent is currently has.

It's not necessarily a continuity issue. We know very little about Gavin before he married Eve. After Isaiah came to 1988 he was adopted, so his adopted family could have been Irish, or he could have lived there for awhile. I would imagine a kid's accent would change in either of those circumstances, especially if he has amnesia of the first 10 or so years of his life.

Or the actor just not good at doing the accent he's supposed to.

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Maybe I missed something but that's not what I got out of the story she told. Whoever came out of the ocean sinkhole (?!) went to war with her people and that's why they are so hostile to outsiders and newcomers. I don't recall if she said what became of the people from the ship. She certainly didn't mention learning English from them. Nobody has brought that up yet. And if they did finally make peace with these people and integrated them into their group(s) then why are they still so hostile towards newcomers, especially when they outnumber them by a huge margin? 

She said after war the survivors found common ground and lived together, sharing culture, languages, and traditions.

I would guess they are still hostile to newcomers because they don't want to go through war again, and assume any new group of people may be dangerous.

[shapeshifter]

14 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

When someone in the present was watching TV, the banner mentioned several dozen missing in sinkhole disaster. So regardless of whether people survived or not, it seems not that many are missing.

Which is weird. Entire buildings fell into the sinkhole, there should have been people inside them that are included in that. Not to mention they were sitting in bumper to bumper traffic when the sinkhole opened up. Are we supposed to think almost everyone got out and ran away fast enough to be safe?

I’m guessing the writers threw out the line about “several dozen missing” to be able to keep down the numbers of cast and extras—especially with the pandemic.

Maybe in a future episode a Tee Vee News scientist will talk about several hundred more missing who may have been “vaporized.”

And in the unlikely event that the show’s ratings are consistently high, in a later season it could be revealed that The Others are in another time or place.

[alvajon]

On 11/17/2021 at 7:46 AM, kirkola said:

And one last very minor plot point that I really, really wish they would address....did that poor man or his husband find his freakin' glasses?  It's one thing to fall down a sinkhole into the past...but to not be able to see afterward just seems horrible.

Kinda like that Twilight Zone episode, “Time Enough at Last”. 

[alvajon]

On 11/17/2021 at 1:34 AM, hifihifi said:

I was totally shocked when Isian turned out to be young Gavin but you would think they could have cast a child actor with brown hair who had some kind of  resemblance to Gavin. It's obvious that the 12 year old girl who leaves with young Gavin is Lilly.

I thought Isaiah looked more like a young Viking boy. And speaking of comparisons, does the actress who plays Izzy not look like Ben Hardy who played Roger Taylor in “Bohemian Rhapsody”? 

[alvajon]

On 11/17/2021 at 5:00 PM, PBnJay said:

That sinkhole ship could have been one of Magellan's or Blackbeard's. Although I do like that it could be The Love Boat. Haven't seen Captain Stubbing for a while.

"Hello Captain Stubing.  How are Gopher and Doc?” (One of my favorite lines from Ace Ventura Pet Detective). 

[alvajon]

On 11/17/2021 at 7:50 PM, chlban said:

I was a bit thrown momentarily by your references to "The Village People". I am old, so many of you may not remember that actually singing group by that name. Every member dressed in costume, so I was picturing this already truly wierd group mingling with the group. As nuts as this show is, I wouldn't even be surprised.

Y.M.C.A.  

[mertensia]

1 hour ago, alvajon said:

Y.M.C.A.  

Nah, In The Navy fits better with the mystery ship.

[EllaWycliffe]

6 hours ago, alvajon said:

I thought Isaiah looked more like a young Viking boy

I mean, he kinda looks like Izzy.

[PBnJay]

On 11/18/2021 at 10:49 AM, proserpina65 said:

Possibly unpopular opinion: I don't think Seal Team Dad was wrong to handcuff Veronica to the steering wheel while trying to figure out what to do with her longer term.  She'd already attacked Ty and was trying to get Lilly to go hide in a cave with her.  What was he supposed to do - let her wander around freely?

I thought that was a reasonable thing to do. I didn't see a big deal in handcuffing the person who tried to kill Ty and steal Lilly. It's not like he hung her with a rope by her neck and she was going to die. In fact, I thought her excessive reaction was fake. And call me cold, but I would have let her die if that's what she wanted to do. People get handcuffed to steering wheels all the time in other teevee shows, it's not a big deal. And if she was too weak to control her "I've been captured by a cult" hyperventilating flashback, she's too weak to live in 10KBC.

[izabella]

1 hour ago, PBnJay said:

I thought that was a reasonable thing to do. I didn't see a big deal in handcuffing the person who tried to kill Ty and steal Lilly.

Yeah, I'm with you on this.  She has proven to be a danger to others, so I didn't see it as an overreaction to restrain her. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

She said after war the survivors found common ground and lived together, sharing culture, languages, and traditions.

Well if they "shared" languages, wouldn't you think they'd be speaking some combination of their native and newly learned language? Why would the natives adopt the language of the newcomers? Honestly, they all sound like they just stepped out of 2021 central casting.

I think the show just doesn't want to bother with creating some entirely new language and using subtitles, which would make way more sense. The show is just lazy that way.

[KaveDweller]

23 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Well if they "shared" languages, wouldn't you think they'd be speaking some combination of their native and newly learned language? Why would the natives adopt the language of the newcomers? Honestly, they all sound like they just stepped out of 2021 central casting.

I think the show just doesn't want to bother with creating some entirely new language and using subtitles, which would make way more sense. The show is just lazy that way.

Yes, I am sure the writers were too lazy to make a whole new language or to give the cast made up accents.

It is possible that the fort people do use other languages too, but are speaking English to the sky people because they can tell that's what they speak? But likely laziness. Or there is a plot twist coming about where they really came from.

But clearly, the fort people don't survive forever, at least not speaking English. Because 11,000 years later there were no English speaking people left in California.

[For Cereals]

On 11/17/2021 at 8:27 AM, iMonrey said:

You'd think an Arby's or something would have fallen down with them. That sinkhole looks like it took about 50 city blocks in each direction, and near a major tourist attraction no less. You can't tell me there wouldn't have been a place with food in all that area.

Arby’s is hard to find here. More like Starbucks, vegan taco trucks, doughnut shops and an In ‘n Out where the line is so long it goes back to the current reality.

[Camera One]

I guess I'll have to say Isaiah being Young Gavin and he was having memory flashbacks was an unexpected twist.  So he saw Diana get shot, and then ran after the jeep and saw Diana be pronounced dead.  I guess there could have been a few hours between those events?  I sure as hell am not going to rewatch that episode to find out.  He even had a close-up of Eve dropping her necklace and didn't pick it up and give it back to her.  That village clearly doesn't babysit their kids too well.

I do like Scott for actually trying to come up with ways for them to survive.  

It was weird how Levi was so over-the-top in pursuit of justice for the murdered rabbit-catching guy he didn't even know.  He could simply have asked the village people about the murder/electrocution and if they had seen anyone else killed that way without the accusations.  Other than Paara, Silas and the kids, everyone else is a thug with a pointy spear?

The reason why the Village People are distrustful of ALL Sky people made no sense, especially if they eventually made peace with one another so they should know you can't paint everyone with the same brush.

Older Gavin wants to speak to the artist who doesn't want to speak to anyone and he pounds on her door with his fists?   

Wolf Snack and Pre-Med's patrol talk was so cringey.  

I'm assuming Rebecca will bite it next episode before she can spill anymore details.

I'm glad Veronica got punished a bit with that whole handcuff incident.  So now Drug Dealer is a bleeding heart who thinks that was too cruel?  Hopefully she learned her lesson but somehow I doubt it.  

[AnimeMania]

48 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I'm glad Veronica got punished a bit with that whole handcuff incident.  So now Drug Dealer is a bleeding heart who thinks that was too cruel?

I've never met anyone who commits crimes for a living that feels that people should be incarcerated for committing crimes.

[Camera One]

14 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

I've never met anyone who commits crimes for a living that feels that people should be incarcerated for committing crimes.

I guess banishment is more his thing like last week when he called for his mother and Eve to be sent away.  He could also have sympathesized with being stuck in an enclosed space.  Anyhow, it was more his sudden humanity for someone else which took me out of the situation.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Camera One