S01.E01: What If… Captain Carter Were The First Avenger?

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

When Steve Rogers is seriously injured, Peggy Carter Becomes the world’s first Super Soldier.

Premiere drops Wednesday, August 11, 2021.

[The Crazed Spruce]

After Steve was "blown up" on the train, I was expecting him to wind up becoming that universe's Winter Soldier. But the parallel to the last conversation he and Peggy had over the radio in the movie was more fitting.

[AimingforYoko]

They brought Bradley Whitford back, playing the same jackass he was in the Marvel One-Shot. In fact, the only first-timer was Josh Keaton as Steve.

 

[tv echo]

I've always loved Peggy Carter, so I really enjoyed this episode. I love her Captain Carter uniform. I love Steve Rogers' Hydra Stomper suit.

One nitpick - Peggy's decision to stay in the room wasn't the only decision that changed the outcome of the original Captain America story. Regardless of Peggy's presence or not, Kruger made the decision to detonate the explosive early and Steve made the decision to confront Kruger (thereby getting shot). Those two decisions contributed to the change to the original story. However, Peggy's decision to step into the chamber did lead to her becoming Captain Carter.

I liked that Peggy's relationship with Steve didn't change when she changed into Enhanced Peggy, just like their relationship didn't change in the original story regardless if Steve was Skinny Steve or Enhanced Steve. 

Steve's arc in this episode was totally in character - managing to find a way to participate in the fight (despite his injury) and being self-sacrificing. His fall from the train was surprisingly heartbreaking for an animated episode, so I'm glad that he survived (due to the Hydra Stomper suit, I assume). 

Then wow - that ending, with Peggy sacrificing herself to push the Hydra tentacled creature back into the space portal and then showing up in present day through the portal (like Loki did in The Avengers) in front of Nick Fury and Hawkeye.

I'm glad that Hayley Atwell, Dominic Cooper, Stanley Tucci, Sebastian Stan, Neal McDonough, Samuel L. Jackson and Jeremy Renner all voiced their MCU characters for this episode. Btw, I know that Chris Evans did not voice Steve Rogers, but they got a pretty good sound-alike.

Edited August 11, 2021 by tv echo

[thuganomics85]

Thought this was a fun little diversion, but then again, I'm usually always a sucker for these types of "alternate reality/universe" situations in genre fare.  Certainly helps that they have a whole lot of returning characters voiced by the original cast.

While the universe wouldn't feel right without Captain America, I certainly don't mind a world where it was Peggy that ended up taking the serum and became "Captain Carter" instead.  It was great watching her going badass on the joint but not losing what makes Peggy, well, Peggy.  Hayley Atwell seemed to be having a blast playing this version of the character and carried the episode well.  A little obvious that Peggy would also somehow find herself in a situation where she has to "sacrifice" herself and end up in the present like Steve did in the original timeline, but the idea of Peggy being an Avenger instead is a fun one.

I like that Steve still played a part in everything and ended up becoming Hydra Stomper instead.  The voice actor did a good enough job copying Chris Evans' style here.

Sebastian Stan seemed to be having fun with all of Bucky's cheesy one-liners.  Nice to see the character get some lighter moments!

With respect to John Slattery, this episode is another example of why I think Dominic Cooper will always be "the" Howard Stark.

Jeffrey Wright is the perfect choice for The Watcher.

Looking forward to seeing what other "What If..?" scenarios play out here!  Even if I suspect it will not include Rocket teaming up with Goose and Alligator Loki to form an Animal Avengers gang...

Edited August 11, 2021 by thuganomics85

[paigow]

Was expecting Bucky to follow up his Queen Victoria line by hitting on Peggy and getting walloped...

[swanpride]

I was kind of disappointed...sorry. But I was hoping for a little bit more than Peggy just doing a variation on Steve's story. 

[Hana Chan]

3 hours ago, swanpride said:

I was kind of disappointed...sorry. But I was hoping for a little bit more than Peggy just doing a variation on Steve's story. 

Ditto. Given that this series basically gives them a license to go totally batshit with the canon, and they basically followed the CATFA storyline with Peggy standing in for Steve. It wasn't particularly engaging and I'm still at a loss at why I'm supposed to love Peggy so much. Rah rah feminism, I guess? What I loved about Steve was his flawed humanity - that he could be rigid and selfish while also being the most self-sacrificing person in the universe. It feels like they were afraid to give Peggy any flaws because she's a woman but some of my favorite female characters in the MCU are the most flawed, damaged ones (Natasha and Nebula at the top of the list). 

It also didn't help that the story gets told with a finger on the fast foward button, not giving us time to see how these relationships develop. It was pretty underwhelming

And way to sideline Bucky... He had one of the most fascinating and tragic storylines in the MCU and not only did they take away the bit about him being experimented on at Azammo and becoming the Winter Soldier, but basically relegate him to sidekick status without anything to do except crack wise. Instead of taking all the elements of the CA storyline that made it so compelling and putting a different spin on them, they played it way too safe. I've read fanfiction that was a lot more daring than this.

Hopefully the next episode will be more interesting.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Hana Chan

[arc]

4 hours ago, tv echo said:

One nitpick - Peggy's decision to stay in the room wasn't the only decision that changed the outcome of the original Captain America story. Regardless of Peggy's presence or not, Kruger made the decision to detonate the explosive early and Steve made the decision to confront Kruger (thereby getting shot). Those two decisions contributed to the change to the original story. However, Peggy's decision to step into the chamber did lead to her becoming Captain Carter.

Arguably her decision led to every other observer also staying down on the floor instead of heading up to the observation balcony. I agree that the show didn’t make the logical connection from there to Kruger starting his sabotage/assassination attempt early. (Also, Erskine didn’t obviously even die onscreen, making it slightly odd that like mainline Steve, she was the only super soldier rather than the first of many.)

The episode was fine but remixing CATFA was a mixed bag. I enjoyed some of the parts that were remixed scenes from CATFA, but then again, Peggy fighting airplanes hand-to-plane or her picking up a sword were way more fun because they were cool and also genuinely new.

[Hana Chan]

35 minutes ago, arc said:

I enjoyed some of the parts that were remixed scenes from CATFA, but then again, Peggy fighting airplanes hand-to-plane or her picking up a sword were way more fun because they were cool and also genuinely new.

This was the part that had me rolling my eyes. That Peggy couldn't be just as strong and capable as Steve turned out - she had to be better! With cooler weapons. The things that made Steven most interesting were absent and I just came away feeling like I was watching a Peggy Sue storyline. I know, that's a dangerous accusation to make with a female character (and I'm a woman so I'm particularly sensitive to the positive portrayal of exceptionally strong women in media) but I think that it was a mistake to just make her into a better, more capable version of Captain America who can overcome even steeper odds than Steve did. 

For me, interesting characters are flawed and the biggest issue that I had with this version of Peggy is that she was just too perfect. Too skilled, too capable, a perfect leader who didn't have to take guff from lesser men (and they were all lesser to her now). She took to being Captain Britain like she was born to it. Steve, for all his physical capabilities, was still allowed to be human and make mistakes. He had the heart of a hero but had to learn the skills and it cost him the life of his best friend. I think that the show had a real opportunity to show Peggy as her own type of hero and missed the mark. 

[swanpride]

My Problem is more that Peggy is a different Character than Steve is. She just would have approached a lot very differently...and I feel that they kind of underplayed the fact that she was a women. Sure, there were the jerks, but it would have been genuinely interesting to explore what it would have meant for the feminist movement if the strongest person on earth was clearly a women. Instead they kind of diminished her, not because they made her too perfect, but above all because they basically just gave her Steve's story. But she isn't Steve. Honestly, the first season of Agent Carter was waaaaay better than this.  On every level. 

[arc]

55 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

That Peggy couldn't be just as strong and capable as Steve turned out - she had to be better! With cooler weapons.

I just figured it meant the CATFA movie was limited in its VFX budget. (Also, a Lovecraftian monster* and time travel would have been less authentic to the comics than Steve getting frozen in the Atlantic.)

* was that Shuma-Gorath? Or was he made up by Capcom?

[Sakura12]

I didn't think Peggy was necessarily stronger, just that this is animated so they could do more. Plus Peggy was a trained agent that already knew how to fight. Steve was not trained. 

As for Bucky, this wasn't about him and Captain Carter wasn't friends with him like Steve. So of course he wouldn't have the same focus. And there is the fact that he wasn't brainwashed and turned into a killer is a better life for him. 

But I do wish they didn't just do a retelling of CATFA. Hopefully the other episodes are not the same story with different characters. 

[Hana Chan]

I watched it again on the way home on the train just to get my criticisms more clearly thought out and make sure that I wasn't being unduly harsh. Admittedly, one of the biggest things working against this episode is that it's only a half hour and they're trying to squeeze in a story that needed at least three times the run time to touch on. So everything was condensed and rushed and the story just wasn't told in a satisfying manner. Now for my issues with the story itself...

1) There was a lot of focus on a Steggy romance and one thing that I really appreciated about CATFA is that the romance was there, but it was on the back burner. Steve was finally in a position where he could fight and was becoming a great leader. While it's nice to see that Peggy still was attracted to Skinny Steve when she was all bulked up, so much of the run time was Steve and Peggy and we really didn't get a whole lot of focus on the other relationships. Howard was there, but we didn't have a whole lot of focus on how he supported her, especially against the sexism she had to deal with (more on that in a bit). And Steve's lifelong friendship with Bucky took such a backseat that it wasn't even in the same vehicle. Given that their friendship was such a driving force for Steve long after he became CA, it was frustrating to see it barely acknowledged once the Azammo rescue happened. I'm not asking for hardcore Stucky, but some proper acknowledgement that Steve's bond with Bucky was at least as important to him as his bond with Peggy (and in some ways more important) was not out of line to expect.

2) The sexism was touched up but really not dealt with in a meaningful way. It would have been interesting to see Peggy resisting being made into a cheesecake pinup figure for the war propaganda machine and squeezed into a Wonder Woman onesie (I did appreciate that her costume was decidedly non-sexualzed), but there were a couple of problems that I found with the conceit that Peggy would have been judged as unworthy of being a soldier. They were in the thick of WW2 and women had been taking part in the war effort on the continent since the start. Women worked in intelligence, with partisan units and there was a squad of Russian female pilots so feared that they were called the Night Witches. One of the most successful snipers was Lyudmilia Pavlichenko and was credited with 309 confirmed kills (when she met Elenore Roosevelt and was asked how many men she'd killed, she remarked that she'd killed no men - only fascists'). While in the British and American regular forced women were regulated to support roles, a woman in combat was not unheard of. With more time, this fact could and should have been brought up as a reason to get Peggy out on the front lines.

3) The show just hewed too closely to CATFA and I don't think it can stand on its own. Up until the final confrontation with Red Skull and the monster squid creature (seriously?), the episode really followed nearly to the letter the events of CATFA and you can't help from drawing a comparison. Even having Bucky start to fall from the train. There were just too many moments calling back to the film which had the luxury of time to tell its story in a more cohesive manner. It really needed more originality.

I think that the biggest problem is that this was too big a story to squeeze into a 30 minute self-contained episode. It would have made a good mini-series, but this format just didn't work. I hope that with the future episodes they don't try to bite off so much and we can get stories that are able to be their own self-contained little selves and not feel like all the interesting stuff was left on the cutting room floor.

[cambridgeguy]

The more interesting story would have been Howard getting into the chamber.  Peggy is too similar to Steve (plucky underdog, heroic spirit, etc.).  What would have happened to Howard though?  Does he become an insufferable asshole?  Would he be willing to head to the front lines?

[Spartan Girl]

A giant squid from another dimension? So many Watchman vibes.

Glad I wasn’t the only one that didn’t really like this episode; I was afraid that my opinion would be biased because of how Endgame soured me on Steve and Peggy. But yeah, they seriously turned Peggy into a Mary Sue. And I just can’t reconcile the no-nonsense Peggy squeeing after she wipes out a bunch of Nazi/HYDRAS. That was seriously OOC. @swanpride said it best: Agent Carter was way better written.

I’ll bet the Stucky fandom is happy there’s a version of Steve and Bucky growing old together.

If nothing else, I’m curious about how the other episodes will turn out.

[MochaJay]

The middle 15 minutes did feel especially like CA:TFA on fast forward, but I suppose that is what you get when the What If? is a person of similar moral values being tasked by the same organisation to do the same missions. 

 

Though I guess the butterfly effect will have taken full effect if we see more of Captain Carter in the 21st century. She was considered either too female or too British to sell war bonds, so no USO tour > Zola was captured earlier > no Winter Soldier > no Kennedy Assassination.

Edited August 12, 2021 by MochaJay

[johntfs]

11 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

A giant squid from another dimension? So many Watchman vibes.

Glad I wasn’t the only one that didn’t really like this episode; I was afraid that my opinion would be biased because of how Endgame soured me on Steve and Peggy. But yeah, they seriously turned Peggy into a Mary Sue. And I just can’t reconcile the no-nonsense Peggy squeeing after she wipes out a bunch of Nazi/HYDRAS. That was seriously OOC. @swanpride said it best: Agent Carter was way better written.

I’ll bet the Stucky fandom is happy there’s a version of Steve and Bucky growing old together.

If nothing else, I’m curious about how the other episodes will turn out.

I think you're really supposed to be getting Lovecraft vibes

Of course her squeeing is "out of character."  She's not the same character.  She's had different stuff happen to her. 

Steve Rogers was sickly, small, thin and weak - a 90 pound asthmatic.  The Super-Soldier Serum pushed him into near-maximum human physical potential in all categories.

Peggy Carter, on the other hand, was already very well trained and probably in as good a physical shape as a woman of her body size and structure could be.  So the SSS pushed her all the into being a full-on superhuman.  Figure when Carter fought Nazis, she relied on speed, cunning and cleverness.  After the SSS she gets to cut loose.  Also, note that while Steve-Cap does a lot of acrobatics/shield trick-shots and the like, Captain Carter is just straight-up killing the shit out of the Nazis in a fairly "no-nonsense" manner, squee or no squee.

[cambridgeguy]

3 hours ago, arc said:

* was that Shuma-Gorath? Or was he made up by Capcom?

Shuma Gorath is an actual comics character, but I'd expect a lot of people to only know him because of the game.  Anyone who picked him either had no idea what they were doing or was a master.

[Racj82]

Damn. Yall some killjoys up in here.

It was a fun what if....

That is all I was expecting. Things wouldn't be THAT different from the first avenger. All of these pieces were already there. Just in different places.

It will be interesting seeing people in different parts of the universe. People that have never bounced off each other. But, I think it was fair to start out with a more balanced and familiar first story.

Great action. Peggy was delightful. Bucky never had to be a tortured soul. Peggy and Steve seem always be destined to fall for each other which is cute. I always love seeing this Howard.

I didn't need anything else.

Nor did I think she was a Mary Sue type or whatever.

For a long time, Steve was the ultimate Mary Sue. Without flaw and all that. 

Peggy was trained. Now she had the might to go with the training and brains. 

Peggy is awesome. I'm cool with just letting her be awesome.

I could have took even more exploration into Peggy and Captain Carter but it was breezy and compact. Not the worst thing in the world. Super hero stuff these seem to never end. I rather be left wanting more at this point.

This was fun. It's okay to just have some fun.

[phalange]

I liked seeing Peggy become Captain Carter, and I think the resistance she faced as a woman was realistic. Lots of men would probably not be happy that the face of the Allied powers and the strongest person in the world was a woman.

I like that even without the serum Steve still found a way to help; that tracks. And it makes sense there’s not as much focus on Bucky here. He’s important in Steve’s story, but this was about Peggy.

I’m not a Steggy shipper (I loved Agent Carter and I have Opinions™️ about the end of Endgame), but I do think it’s interesting and kinda tragic that no matter who gets the super serum, one of them will still end up sacrificing themselves to save the world and end up in the future.

My only thing is that I would’ve liked to see more of Peggy in the present. Some things did stay the same, though, since Fury and Clint were there even though Peggy wasn’t around to co-found SHIELD. 

[Linderhill]

I agree with @phalange and @Racj82 completely.  This was a story about Peggy and what happens when she gets the serum.  There's nothing about the bond that Steve and Bucky have because it isn't about them.  I too want to see how Peggy does in current times, how she will fit in.

Yes, this was fun and I'm all for getting more.

[Racj82]

40 minutes ago, phalange said:

I liked seeing Peggy become Captain Carter, and I think the resistance she faced as a woman was realistic. Lots of men would probably not be happy that the face of the Allied powers and the strongest person in the world was a woman.

I like that even without the serum Steve still found a way to help; that tracks. And it makes sense there’s not as much focus on Bucky here. He’s important in Steve’s story, but this was about Peggy.

I’m not a Steggy shipper (I loved Agent Carter and I have Opinions™️ about the end of Endgame), but I do think it’s interesting and kinda tragic that no matter who gets the super serum, one of them will still end up sacrificing themselves to save the world and end up in the future.

My only thing is that I would’ve liked to see more of Peggy in the present. Some things did stay the same, though, since Fury and Clint were there even though Peggy wasn’t around to co-found SHIELD. 

I liked that Peggy clearly left her mark too since Clint knew who she was.

That's actually kind of cool. In this time line girls and women have had a heroic icon this whole time. I'm not saying I have a problem with our current time-line. It's just kind of cool to think about. Anyone could be inspired by Peggy but obviously it hits different to see the hero look like you or feel like they represent you personally.

[RedElf]

I wonder why Chris Evans didn't do the voice of Steve Rogers.

Dominic Cooper's acting is horrible in this.

I'd like to see a What If with Howard Stark as Iron Man.

 

[Racj82]

1 hour ago, RedElf said:

I wonder why Chris Evans didn't do the voice of Steve Rogers.

Dominic Cooper's acting is horrible in this.

I'd like to see a What If with Howard Stark as Iron Man.

 

Evans and RDJ I know for sure didn't do it. Probably couldn't afford them. 

But, after all that money that got off this, they could have showed up in the studio for a day to record for a pay cut.

There might also be the urge to not even touch those roles even in voice form after Endgame for the time being.

I can't comprehend your second comment though. He was as fun as ever to me.

[arc]

5 hours ago, johntfs said:

Steve Rogers was sickly, small, thin and weak - a 90 pound asthmatic.  The Super-Soldier Serum pushed him into near-maximum human physical potential in all categories.

Peggy Carter, on the other hand, was already very well trained and probably in as good a physical shape as a woman of her body size and structure could be.  So the SSS pushed her all the into being a full-on superhuman.

“Peak human” is the mainline comics line, but in the MCU all kinds of super soldiers pace or outrun cars, Cap has held a helicopter down… in Earth-199999, the SSS produces superhumans, full stop. They’re not merely Olympic athlete level.

I wonder why Peggy didn’t get a helmet.

[Starfish35]

So….Peggy Carter is one of my favorite characters ever, so I was expecting to totally love this, but….it didn’t quite live up to my expectations.  Admittedly, they were trying to do a lot in a 30min episode, but as others have said, it just felt a bit too much like a rehash of CATFA.     And it was all just a bit over the top, in the dialogue and voice acting, to the point where I started wondering whether it was a deliberate style choice.  Maybe to give it more of a “comic-bookish” feeling? 

I didn’t feel like they made Peggy a Sue, though.  I thought they kept her fairly well in character, allowing for the new super strength of course.  And Steve and Howard as well.  I thought Bucky, on the other hand, had very little resemblance to his movie self, oddly enough.  I do agree with the comments though that have said this is Peggy’s story, not Steve’s, so I wouldn’t expect much focus on the Stucky relationship.

How did Red Skull get the Tesseract back?  I missed that somehow.  And was the sword and shield pose a deliberate Wonder Woman homage, or just a coincidence?

Overall, an interesting idea, just a bit of a disappointment in execution.

[Perfect Xero]

57 minutes ago, arc said:

“Peak human” is the mainline comics line, but in the MCU all kinds of super soldiers pace or outrun cars, Cap has held a helicopter down… in Earth-199999, the SSS produces superhumans, full stop. They’re not merely Olympic athlete level.

I wonder why Peggy didn’t get a helmet.

I'd say that the films portray Steve as something closer to "peak human" in TFA and Avengers, but then soft retcon Super Soldiers to clearly super human (particularly in strength) in TWS which has continued through the subsequent films and F&TWS.

[arc]

2 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

How did Red Skull get the Tesseract back?

The Hydra Stomper armor was powered by the Tesseract, so when Hydra captured the suit, they got the Tesseract back.

[Hana Chan]

4 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I do agree with the comments though that have said this is Peggy’s story, not Steve’s, so I wouldn’t expect much focus on the Stucky relationship.

My only quibble with this is that Steve's friendship with Bucky was at least as strong as his new love for Peggy and is a much longer standing relationship. If Peggy loved Steve as much as she was stated to, then his relationship with Bucky would have been a consideration for her since Bucky wasn't going to disappear from Steve's life just because he got a girl. Plus Bucky was under her command, so his importance to Steve would have been something she would have to consider.

But I agree that this was Peggy's story and that was why I felt she was so badly shortchanged. Instead of letting her be her own kind of hero, she was basically just a female version of Captain America with different packaging. I think that there were a lot of ways that they could have followed the WW2 Hydra storyline without rehashing the events of CATFA. The format basically gives the writers the freedom to go completely off the rails and by making the Hydra plan an eldritch squid monster that Peggy was able to pretty much tackle single-handed... I was not impressed. When you have a character so insanely overpowered (like Wanda, Captain Marvel and Steve/Bucky at their peak), you need to have a threat that is equally daunting. 

The writer in me just see a lot of missed opportunities for some real drama that were due, as many have said, primarily to the very limited run time of the episode (though I will argue that the writers showed a lack of any real imagination). I would have been more interested in an early Captain Britain, where TPTB want to turn their only super soldier (and a looker at that) into a PR showgirl with a skimpy costume and Peggy fighting to be taken seriously (as she had to do in Agent Carter). We could have had some seriously interpersonal conflict with coolly pragmatic Peggy not considering that putting Steve (with all his health issues) into an armored fighting suit might be an unreasonable risk to him while Bucky wants to protect Steve (I always thought that SkinnySteve would be much more effective working with Stark to help the Commandos). Or that while Steve was Peggy's romantic interest, Steve's best friend was under her command and that alone could create all kinds of conflict (Bucky falling from the train and not being caught would have been a wonderful way to inject some real tension into their relationship). Or Red Skull, rather than just releasing a giant squid monster from another dimension decides to meld himself with the giant squid monster to become an unstoppable God (since it's already canon that he believes that as a super soldier, he has left humanity behind). There were a lot of ways they could have taken this story that really could have shifted how we view these characters but we basically just got a minor deviation from what we'd already seen. They just played this one too straight and too safely.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Hana Chan

[skipnjump]

Like many of the previous comments above, I didn't love this episode, but I didn't hate it either.  I do have to admit in fairness, I never really was a fan of the first Captain America movie and not really a fan of the character of Bucky either.  I do think that the 30 minute time frame hampered the writing, but also with this being the first episode, maybe the writers didn't want to go too far out there.  Ease us into the crazy "what if" story lines?  When I first saw the sword, I had more of an Asgard vibe pop into my head rather than Wonder Woman.  All in all, for 30 minutes, it was fine and not a waste of time.  I'll give the next few episodes a viewing before I make any final decisions on the series.

[Sakura12]

This was Peggy's story. It doesn't mean Steve wasn't hanging out with Bucky, we just saw when when Peggy was hanging out with Steve. 

Steve got to be the first Iron Man and he and Bucky probably got to grow old together. 

[tv echo]

10 hours ago, RedElf said:

I wonder why Chris Evans didn't do the voice of Steve Rogers.

In some of the media interviews (like this Variety one), the producers indicated that part of it was scheduling and part of it was budgeting (for not getting everyone they wanted for the voice actors), and also said that they didn't push that hard and even considered getting all sound-alike actors at one point.

Edited August 12, 2021 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

6 hours ago, arc said:

The Hydra Stomper armor was powered by the Tesseract, so when Hydra captured the suit, they got the Tesseract back.

Thanks.  I somehow missed that the armor was powered by the Tesseract.

On another note, I did find it somewhat amusing that, while it’s not Steve and Tony, it is (another version of) Cap & Iron Man.  Although I do agree that it was a bit of a missed opportunity not making Steve the Winter Soldier.  Probably just not enough time.  

[benteen]

I thought it was fun.  I agree, it rehashed the original film too much but I thought it did a good job staying true to Peggy and Steve.

Captain Carter was great and Hayley Atwell was having a blast.  It's fun what they could do with the animation.  The sword was awesome and very British.  Steve as Hydra Stomper was a great addition as well.  I thought Josh Keaton sounded just like Chris Evans and nothing was lost in the performance. 

Always nice seeing Bucky but that didn't sound like Sébastien Stan at all.  Sounds like he didn't know how to voice act or was just mailing it in.

I thought Steve would end up becoming the Winter Soldier, which would have been a classic What if development.

I can't believe they actually let Peggy fight Nazis in this one.  The bizarre decision to have World War 2 be about fighting Hydra is still baffling to this day.  In the comics, Cap fought Nazis.  In the comics, Red Skull was and is a gigantic Nazi.  I want to see Cap, Peggy, Bucky and their team fighting and destroying Nazis.

I hope they remain true to the spirit of the What if comic series.  Sometimes stories turned out very, very badly for the heroes.  If everything turns out great for the good guys all the time, it completely cheapens the stakes for the actual Marvel movies.  I trust Marvel with this but I do not trust Disney. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by benteen

[Starfish35]

3 hours ago, skipnjump said:

When I first saw the sword, I had more of an Asgard vibe pop into my head rather than Wonder Woman. 

This was the visual that made me think Wonder Woman:

I think not just the sword and shield but the framing with the background. 🤷🏻‍♀️😁

Edited August 12, 2021 by Starfish35

[Starfish35]

26 minutes ago, benteen said:

Always nice seeing Bucky but that didn't sound like Sébastien Stan at all. 

Oh thank you!  I thought it was just me!  

The other thing that kept throwing me is that I kept thinking that the awful misogynistic Colonel Flynn was supposed to be Colonel Phillips from CATFA, and they didn’t sound even remotely alike.  It wasn’t until later in the episode that I finally clued in that this was a completely different character.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Starfish35

[cambridgeguy]

5 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

When you have a character so insanely overpowered (like Wanda, Captain Marvel and Steve/Bucky at their peak), you need to have a threat that is equally daunting. 

Yup - you need a master sorcerer against Wanda, a Superman-level character against Captain Marvel, and .... a few guys who are capable of shooting at the parts of the body that aren't behind a fairly small shield against Steve.

[RedElf]

21 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I can't comprehend your second comment though. He was as fun as ever to me.

He was proclaiming, instead of acting.

10 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Oh thank you!  I thought it was just me!  

The other thing that kept throwing me is that I kept thinking that the awful misogynistic Colonel Flynn was supposed to be Colonel Phillips from CATFA, and they didn’t sound even remotely alike.  It wasn’t until later in the episode that I finally clued in that this was a completely different character.

Flynn was Peggy boss on Agent Carter.

It occurred to me that when the train was about to explode, it was Peggy that Steve warned to get out, and not Bucky.

[Starfish35]

Why would it have been Bucky? Even leaving the Steggy relationship aside, Peggy was the team leader, and might have been the only one linked to Steve’s armor.  

18 minutes ago, RedElf said:

Flynn was Peggy boss on Agent Carter.

He was?  Wow I really didn’t remember that.

ETA:  oh wait, you mean the One-Shot Agent Carter, not the series.  Her boss in the series was Dooley.  I’ve seen the One-Shot, but I barely remember it.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Starfish35

[tennisgurl]

I have been really interested in what this series was going to be like, and I thought that this was a really fun start. It did at times feel like they were hitting a lot of the same beats as the first Captain America movie, but they did make some changes to keep things interesting and it made sense that the basic premise would be similar, as both Captain Carter and Captain Rogers would have very similar goals. Unless things went totally off the rails, like Peggy becomes the Hulk, things were going to go at least somewhat the same. 

I really do love the relationship between Steve and Peggy, despite my...issues with certain aspects of their relationship in certain movies *cough Endgame cough* they have such a sweetness to them that I went right back to rooting for them here. I love the consistency that Peggy would always love Steve for the person he was inside, whether he was a skinny asthmatic or a super solider pinnacle of human strength, and that of course Steve would be nothing but thrilled for Peggy to get her time to shine. They even had a similar "I had a date" ending, which really made me want to see a bit more of what happens to this Peggy next. Steve is still the sickly person he was before the serum in this world, is he still alive 70 years later? Does Peggy go on to lead this version of The Avengers? Because that sounds awesome. 

Also fun seeing this version of Howard again, and I freaking love Steve as 40s Iron Man kicking ass in a robot suite, because of course Steve would still find a way to fight, especially so close to the frontline. I also really liked getting to see a version of Bucky who gets to stay quippy and fun and isn't tortured and brainwashed for a century, this version of him really dodged a bullit when Peggy pulled him off of the train. I did totally think that when Steve got supposedly blown up on the train that he would end up becoming this worlds Winter Soldier, that's just the kind of thing that happens in stories like this. 

The animation is top notch, I like the mix of almost motion capture and comic book, and the way they show that Steve and Peggy fight differently. Steve used a lot of fancy tricks and throwing and things that he clearly learned as Captain America, being a sickly civilian before this, while Peggy was already very physically strong and trained in hand to hand fighting, so her style is much more "I throw the things and hit the things and then thing is no more" which feels very in cannon with her fighting style, especially in Agent Carter. 

[Spartan Girl]

11 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Overall, an interesting idea, just a bit of a disappointment in execution.

That’s where I am too. Captain Carter was a good idea, but the way they did it felt like a rehash of both TFA and Wonder Woman.

Make no mistake, I’m in with the series in general, and I can’t wait for next week.

[ProudMary]

59 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

 He was?  Wow I really didn’t remember that.

ETA:  oh wait, you mean the One-Shot Agent Carter, not the series.  Her boss in the series was Dooley.  I’ve seen the One-Shot, but I barely remember it.

Yes, it was the Marvel One Shot. I was kind of spoiled that Flynn would be back in What If? when I saw Bradley Whitford's name in the final cast listing before the show aired.

For anyone who hasn't seen Marvel One Shot: Agent Carter, the full 15 minute version can be viewed here:

 

[ProudMary]

58 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Also fun seeing this version of Howard again, and I freaking love Steve as 40s Iron Man kicking ass in a robot suite, because of course Steve would still find a way to fight, especially so close to the frontline. I also really liked getting to see a version of Bucky who gets to stay quippy and fun and isn't tortured and brainwashed for a century, this version of him really dodged a bullit when Peggy pulled him off of the train. I did totally think that when Steve got supposedly blown up on the train that he would end up becoming this worlds Winter Soldier, that's just the kind of thing that happens in stories like this. 

And almost pulled off his left arm. 😅

Thankfully, instead of Steve becoming the Winter Soldier, my new head canon is that Steve went on to found S.H.I.E.L.D. with Howard and, instead of having an Aunt Peggy, Tony has an Uncle Steve. 🙂

[arc]

5 hours ago, benteen said:

I can't believe they actually let Peggy fight Nazis in this one.  The bizarre decision to have World War 2 be about fighting Hydra is still baffling to this day. 

I think it's part of wanting to depoliticize comics, which seems like a poor decision in light of the real world impulses behind creating the Captain America character.

Small nitpick: It bummed me out in the early part of the episode when the "1943" map showed Nazi Germany expanding all over Europe, including Austria and Italy, when in real life Austria had already been subsumed years ago and Italy was allied with Germany. Even assuming the animated map was showing what led up to 1943, I can't imagine how that justifies Nazis "invading" Italy. And then, like you say, the literal face of WW2 in the MCU is the Red Skull, not the Nazis' actual leader.

4 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Yup - you need a master sorcerer against Wanda, a Superman-level character against Captain Marvel, and .... a few guys who are capable of shooting at the parts of the body that aren't behind a fairly small shield against Steve.

TBF, Howard Stark did say he modified the costume. Presumably it's at least somewhat armored.

[DavidJSnyder]

3 hours ago, ProudMary said:

For anyone who hasn't seen Marvel One Shot: Agent Carter, the full 15 minute version can be viewed here:

 

It’s also on Disney Plus buried in the Iron Man 3 extras,at least in the US.

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, DavidJSnyder said:

It’s also on Disney Plus buried in the Iron Man 3 extras,at least in the US.

It never would have occurred to me to check there.  Thank you!

[ProudMary]

5 hours ago, DavidJSnyder said:

It’s also on Disney Plus buried in the Iron Man 3 extras,at least in the US.

Not only did I not realize that, I've NEVER even looked at the extras on any of the MCU films. You've given me something new to check out when I'm bored! 🙂

[arc]

It also bugged me that no one from the American side ever expressed any annoyance that the sole super soldier, the sole beneficiary of this American program, ended up being a Brit.

14 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Thanks.  I somehow missed that the armor was powered by the Tesseract.

It’s like a single near-throwaway line by Howard. But it does explain how the suit is so powerful yet can’t really be mass produced. Steve’s alternate power plan at the end could only run it for a few minutes.

[Perfect Xero]

I was a bit unclear how Peggy being the Super Soldier lead to Red Skull's plan being to summon a Lovecraftian monster rather than a super bomber, but it was a pretty fun What If