Gymnastics

[CrazyInAlabama]

23 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

In 2008, wasn't there a lot of controversy re: the ages of the Chinese female gymnasts? 

Yes, and before that too.   I still remember the commentators talking about the ages of the little girls competing for China.  Especially one poor kid who had a gym accident, and lost her front teeth (not uncommon), and then they grew back, so she wasn't even 10 yet. 

(It was definitely a commentator talking about the Chinese gymnasts, not NK). 

I wish the press would get off of Simone's back.    They are unrelenting to her, and this morning their speculation on why she withdrew were despicable. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[Conotocarious]

13 minutes ago, satrunrose said:

I agree that pressure is different based on sport and gender, but I think t does vary based on the country and the time. Canada put a lot of pressure on Men's figure skating in the 90s. It was like Elvis Stojko! Kurt Browning! Oh, and those girls that always come 5th.

Omg I loved Kurt Browning. 

[Jeddah]

32 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

GB and Ukraine though have trouble putting it together when it counts though. Like I'll never forget how in Rio all the chips were in place for Ukraine to medal and they ended up scratching in the team finals.

I will never forgive Ukraine for that! They should have let the next team compete if they weren’t going to.

 

43 minutes ago, kittykat said:

It's not racial prejudice. 

Someone unthread made a comment about the Chinese gymnasts being sent to the glue factory if they failed. I really don’t believe a comment comparing the athletes to animals would be made about a white team.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

I see a lot of people blaming coaches (and there are really yucky ones out there we all know) - but for the most part the coaches don't want you playing if you are injured either. It's pretty much a system. If you say you can do it, they believe you. I've had coaches yank me out because they thought they'd  save me from myself (which a lot of athletes need  quite frankly,  so many hockey examples)

I think most of the comments here are because there is a history of gymnasts being forced to compete injured. One of the reasons Nassar held the position that he held was because he would clear gymnasts medically when he shouldn’t have. What you describe is the way it should be but it’s not been what usually happens in USA Gymnastics. 

[ferjy]

1 minute ago, Conotocarious said:

Omg I loved Kurt Browning. 

He was so entertaining. A true showman.

 

[Danny Franks]

So the GB women win their first team medal in god knows how long, and the BBC show almost none of their performances because they either don't have the rights or it just wasn't filmed by the on-location crews. That really fucking sucks.

In previous Olympics, we've been able to watch every one of the gymnasts, no matter whether they were medal hopes or not, whether they were of national interest or not.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Danny Franks

[Daisy]

4 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

Someone unthread made a comment about the Chinese gymnasts being sent to the glue factory if they failed. I really don’t believe a comment comparing the athletes to animals would be made about a white team.

people have made comments about that about a plethora of athletes. it's def. not a racial thing. 

[choclatechip45]

This made me laugh, apparently Hoda was shouting "We Love You Simone". It was nice to see the Today Show having Shane and Yul on. 

 

 

[Jeddah]

1 minute ago, Daisy said:

it's def. not a racial thing. 

I really find it strange how confident people are that there’s no anti-Asian racism.

 

10 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I still remember the commentators talking about the ages of the little girls competing for China.  Especially one poor kid who had a gym accident, and lost her front teeth (not uncommon), and then they grew back, so she wasn't even 10 yet. 

If you’re talking about Kim Gwang-Suk, she wasn’t Chinese. She was North Korean.

[Lady Whistleup]

9 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

I will never forgive Ukraine for that! They should have let the next team compete if they weren’t going to.

Especially as it came out later that the reason they scratched was so Oleg Vernaiev wanted to conserve his energy for AA. Which ... they should have pulled out if they knew they wanted to save Vernaiev for the AA. 

1 minute ago, Jeddah said:

I really find it strange how confident people are that there’s no anti-Asian racism.

 

If you’re talking about Kim Gwang-Suk, she wasn’t Chinese. She was North Korean.

And this right here is why I think there's a lot of racial prejudice against Asians. When people get Chinese and Korean athletes mixed up.

Also, it's just a fact that during this year many people have demonized Asians for covid. 

[Jeddah]

1 minute ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Especially as it came out later that the reason they scratched was so Oleg Vernaiev wanted to conserve his energy for AA. Which ... they should have pulled out if they knew they wanted to save Vernaiev for the AA. 

I still think they robbed Danell Leyva of a gold in parallel bars so they could give Oleg a consolation gold. Danell had a much better routine.

[Daisy]

21 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

I really find it strange how confident people are that there’s no anti-Asian racism.

I didn't say that. 
What I said was being sent to the glue factory has been applied to a tonne of athletes regardless of colour.

[Conotocarious]

Its looking more and more like like Simone does have the “twisties” and in that case I would think its very up in the air whether she continues competing. With the yips it can a long time to get over. Apparently she did the same thing in warmups according to Gymcastic.

[choclatechip45]

I'm glad Simone is doing what is best for her. I do wonder if she would have been just as understanding in 2016 if let's say Gabby withdrew under similar circumstances.

[Conotocarious]

Just now, choclatechip45 said:

I'm glad Simone is doing what is best for her. I do wonder if she would have been just as understanding in 2016 if let's say Gabby withdrew under similar circumstances.

Who knows? It was five years ago.

How understanding was Gabby about sexual abuse of her teammates?

[choclatechip45]

3 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

Who knows? It was five years ago.

How understanding was Gabby about sexual abuse of her teammates?

She shouldn't have said what she said, but at least she apologized. She suffered from the same sexual abuse. I think the team members are being very understanding of Simone and I have a lot of respect for them for doing that. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by choclatechip45

[Lady Whistleup]

2 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

She shouldn't have said what she said, but at least she apologized. She suffered from the same sexual abuse. I think the team members are being very understanding of Simone and I have a lot of respect for them for doing that. 

The fault is the media which treated the Tokyo Olys as a coronation instead of a competition. Shit happens during competitions. Injuries can be sudden, cruel and unforgiving. Simone could have landed the wrong way on her Amanar, broken her ankle, and been on the way to the hospital. The entire team could have been sent to health and safety protocols. We can't play the what-if game. 

I thought the US women made lemonade out of lemons with a silver medal. 

[choclatechip45]

1 minute ago, Lady Whistleup said:

The fault is the media which treated the Tokyo Olys as a coronation instead of a competition. Shit happens during competitions. Injuries can be sudden, cruel and unforgiving. Simone could have landed the wrong way on her Amanar, broken her ankle, and been on the way to the hospital. The entire team could have been sent to health and safety protocols. We can't play the what-if game. 

I thought the US women made lemonade out of lemons with a silver medal. 

Well said. It's sad that they didn't learn the lesson from how the media Gabby was treated in Rio. The media needs to learn gymnasts are human not super heroes without feelings. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by choclatechip45

[Jeddah]

25 minutes ago, Daisy said:

I didn't say that. 
What I said was being sent to the glue factory has been applied to a tonne of athletes regardless of colour.

I only remember hearing it in reference to actual horses that have to be euthanized. I find it really offensive to say that about a person, but to each their own I guess.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

The fault is the media which treated the Tokyo Olys as a coronation instead of a competition. Shit happens during competitions. Injuries can be sudden, cruel and unforgiving. Simone could have landed the wrong way on her Amanar, broken her ankle, and been on the way to the hospital. The entire team could have been sent to health and safety protocols. We can't play the what-if game. 

I thought the US women made lemonade out of lemons with a silver medal. 

It wasn’t even just the media. Tom Forster was spewing that crap about how the US is dominant that they could field 3 gold medal winning teams and that the Olympic trials would be more competitive than the Olympics. USA Gymnastics did such a disservice to the gymnasts by acting like they were unbeatable. Not to mention how insulting it is to the other countries. 

[Lady Whistleup]

4 minutes ago, Dani said:

It wasn’t even just the media. Tom Forster was spewing that crap about how the US is dominant that they could field 3 gold medal winning teams and that the Olympic trials would be more competitive than the Olympics. USA Gymnastics did such a disservice to the gymnasts by acting like they were unbeatable. Not to mention how insulting it is to the other countries. 

I also hope it doesn't get lost in the narrative that the US even with Simone was 2nd after quals. So the signs were there that they were beatable, Simone or no Simone. 

[Daisy]

4 minutes ago, Dani said:

It wasn’t even just the media. Tom Forster was spewing that crap about how the US is dominant that they could field 3 gold medal winning teams and that the Olympic trials would be more competitive than the Olympics. USA Gymnastics did such a disservice to the gymnasts by acting like they were unbeatable. Not to mention how insulting it is to the other countries. 

to be fair. (I don't know who this Tom Forster is) is he wrong? like Women's US Gymnastics is incredibly deep and extremely talented. This type of thing is said in a lot of sports (like we say it up here in regards to Hockey  - we have so much talent we could send 3 teams and all 3 could be be in contention for the gold medal). 

But that's the beauty of sport. you still have to compete. just because your nation is deep and you could send 3-4 teams and all of them could win, doesn't mean that they will on that night. 

[choclatechip45]

8 minutes ago, Dani said:

It wasn’t even just the media. Tom Forster was spewing that crap about how the US is dominant that they could field 3 gold medal winning teams and that the Olympic trials would be more competitive than the Olympics. USA Gymnastics did such a disservice to the gymnasts by acting like they were unbeatable. Not to mention how insulting it is to the other countries. 

I hope they fire Tom. I think he did such a diservice to the athletes throughout this whole process. 

[Minneapple]

8 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

The fault is the media which treated the Tokyo Olys as a coronation instead of a competition.

Simone has been dealing with the media her whole life. She knows how they work. We can point to one thing and say "This is why this happened!" but in reality it's not that easy.

[ferjy]

41 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

I only remember hearing it in reference to actual horses that have to be euthanized. I find it really offensive to say that about a person, but to each their own I guess.

They are not comparing them to animals, it's an often used metaphor implying that the person is discarded after they are deemed to no longer be of any use. It's not insulting the athletes, it's putting down the ones using them.

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by ferjy

[choclatechip45]

2 minutes ago, Daisy said:

to be fair. (I don't know who this Tom Forster is) is he wrong? like Women's US Gymnastics is incredibly deep and extremely talented. This type of thing is said in a lot of sports (like we say it up here in regards to Hockey  - we have so much talent we could send 3 teams and all 3 could be be in contention for the gold medal). 

But that's the beauty of sport. you still have to compete. just because your nation is deep and you could send 3-4 teams and all of them could win, doesn't mean that they will on that night. 

Somewhat Russia had improved a lot since 2019 Worlds. This wasn't Rio were the US came in with start value advantage and they were acting like it was. He has made so many questionable decisions since 2018.

Edited July 27, 2021 by choclatechip45

[Sarahsmile416]

1 minute ago, Minneapple said:

Simone has been dealing with the media her whole life. She knows how they work. We can point to one thing and say "This is why this happened!" but in reality it's not that easy.

Yes.  Heck, I doubt if Simone herself could pinpoint why.   The truth being that why doesn’t matter.  We need to figure out where we go from here.  Mental health trumps medals.  Every. Single. Time

[Conotocarious]

I just read an excellent comment comparing Simone athletically to Alex Honnold and YES. He will bail on a climb if it feels wrong (as he did in Free Solo) because the consequences could be fatal otherwise.

 

GOD. I wish I had thought of that.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Conotocarious

[Sarahsmile416]

Separate from all of this - I’m glad that this happened in a way because it really shone a light on those other athletes…I got to know who they were and I am glad for that.  Suni Lee is amazing…I’m really rooting for her in the AA!

[Conotocarious]

31 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

She shouldn't have said what she said, but at least she apologized. She suffered from the same sexual abuse. I think the team members are being very understanding of Simone and I have a lot of respect for them for doing that. 

She did and I do like Gabby a lot.  In many ways her demeanor in Rio reminds me of Simone’s demeanor here. In London, Gabby was joyful and happy, it was obvious. In Rio, subdued and somber. Its the same with Simone. I would hope that as athletes and top gymnasts they understand each other better than most, even if they’re not besties.

[dovegrey]

25 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

The fault is the media which treated the Tokyo Olys as a coronation instead of a competition. Shit happens during competitions. Injuries can be sudden, cruel and unforgiving. Simone could have landed the wrong way on her Amanar, broken her ankle, and been on the way to the hospital. The entire team could have been sent to health and safety protocols. We can't play the what-if game. 

I thought the US women made lemonade out of lemons with a silver medal. 

This. If there is any silver lining of today (no pun intended), it's that the three other gymnasts who have been ignored, marginalized, removed from US primetime coverage, and basically intimated to be riding Simone's GOATtails to gold (because without her, they're nothing) earned that silver medal on their own merits, no question. Simone didn't carry them. Simone didn't win the medal for them. And I expect that the coverage that created this "coronation" atmosphere (I like that) more than likely contributed to what happened with Simone today. I really hope NBC looks at their "journey" approach to the Olympics and lays off the star athletes for 2024, but I know better.

This is not meant to be negative toward Simone. All respect to her. 

[Lady Whistleup]

3 minutes ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

Yes.  Heck, I doubt if Simone herself could pinpoint why.   The truth being that why doesn’t matter.  We need to figure out where we go from here.  Mental health trumps medals.  Every. Single. Time

Looking back I think Simone peaked physically at the 2019 WC's. That was her last great meet -- she was just awesome there. I think the pandemic year hurt her more than the younger gymnasts. Every meet this year she's actually had a few "wow, that was not Simone" moments. 

[choclatechip45]

6 minutes ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

Separate from all of this - I’m glad that this happened in a way because it really shone a light on those other athletes…I got to know who they were and I am glad for that.  Suni Lee is amazing…I’m really rooting for her in the AA!

This is an amazing article ESPN did on Suni https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31849287/us-gymnastics-star-sunisa-lee-long-winding-journey-olympics-2021. 

I love Suni so glad people are noticing her more! I hope she wins an AA medal. 

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Daisy said:

to be fair. (I don't know who this Tom Forster is) is he wrong? like Women's US Gymnastics is incredibly deep and extremely talented. This type of thing is said in a lot of sports (like we say it up here in regards to Hockey  - we have so much talent we could send 3 teams and all 3 could be be in contention for the gold medal).

Tom Forster is the usa gymnastics coordinator (aka Marta Karoyli’s replacement). I don’t think it matters if he is right or wrong. It matters that as the leader of USA gymnastics he put ridiculous expectations on the team. 

I do think that he is wrong this year and acting as though USA gymnastics, as a whole, was still untouchable after everything that happened was burying his head in the sand. 

22 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

I hope they fire Tom. I think he did such a diservice to the athletes throughout this whole process. 

I completely agree. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Guest

[CrazyInAlabama]

23 hours ago, Jeddah said:

I really find it strange how confident people are that there’s no anti-Asian racism.

 

If you’re talking about Kim Gwang-Suk, she wasn’t Chinese. She was North Korean.

This was definitely Chinese gymnasts they were talking about, it was quite a while ago (I've watched gymnastics at the Olympics, and world championships for years, and I definitely remember that).   Probably in 2000-2010 time frame.     It was when China was really winning, and I don't even remember the North Koreans being mentioned.   

The commentators, I think it was ABC then, but the woman former gymnast, and the network commentator were talking about the Chinese, and how tiny and young the women looked, and mentioned teeth being gone at one meet or exhibit, and then regrowing.   Not being totally replaced like a flipper or bridge, but growing in like adult teeth will. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[emma675]

If Simone withdraws from the AA competition, will the US get to replace her with the next highest scoring athlete (was that Jade)?

[choclatechip45]

2 minutes ago, Dani said:

Tom Forster is the usa gymnastics coordinator (aka Marta Karoyli’s replacement). I don’t think it matters if he is right or wrong. It matters that as the leader of USA gymnastics he put ridiculous expectations on the team. 

I do think that he is wrong this year and acting as though USA gymnastics, as a whole, was still untouchable after everything that happened was burying his head in the sand. 

I completely agree. 

I hope they hire Chow, I still can't believe the US let China hire him. 

Just now, emma675 said:

If Simone withdraws from the AA competition, will the US get to replace her with the next highest scoring athlete (was that Jade)?

Yes Jade finished 9th. 

[Daisy]

9 minutes ago, Dani said:

Tom Forster is the usa gymnastics coordinator (aka Marta Karoyli’s replacement). I don’t think it matters if he is right or wrong. It matters that as the leader of USA gymnastics he put ridiculous expectations on the team. 

I do think that he is wrong this year and acting as though USA gymnastics, as a whole, was still untouchable after everything that happened was burying his head in the sand. 

I completely agree. 

oh. I thought he was a media person (since everyone was all talking about media). 

yeah I mean Hockey Canada never would say that LOL (not publicly anyway)

Edited July 27, 2021 by Daisy

[Jeddah]

4 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

This was definitely Chinese gymnasts they were talking about, it was quite a while ago (I've watched gymnastics at the Olympics, and world championships for years, and I definitely remember that).   Probably in 2000-2010 time frame.     It was when China was really winning, and I don't even remember the North Koreans being mentioned.   

I’ve followed gymnastics a long time too. The post was talking about a gymnast who was missing her front teeth. That was Kim Gwang-Suk in the early 90’s. She is not Chinese.

[DawnDavenport]

29 minutes ago, ferjy said:

They are not comparing them to animals, it's an often used metaphor implying that the person is discarded after they are deemed to no longer be of any use. It's not insulting the athletes, it's putting down the ones using them to their advantage.

 

Thank you. I made the comment and it was in no way meant to demean the athletes. I made it to illustrate how much pressure federations and some governments put on their athletes to win at all costs regardless of the consequences and nothing else.

[ctlady]

30 minutes ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

32 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Simone has been dealing with the media her whole life. She knows how they work. We can point to one thing and say "This is why this happened!" but in reality it's not that easy.

Yes.  Heck, I doubt if Simone herself could pinpoint why.   The truth being that why doesn’t matter.  We need to figure out where we go from here.  Mental health trumps medals.  Every. Single. Time

Agreed - but this is what comes along with competing in a sport.  There is going to be pressure, anxiety, stress, being overwhelmed, etc.  I feel for her and hope she is okay.  To do this in the middle of the games - especially when it isn't just your own success on the line but that of your teammates who are counting on you is what I'm having trouble digesting.  

Someone earlier on the radio put it like this - if Tom Brady had decided to take himself out of the Superbowl in the 3rd quarter with the game tied or if LeBron James had decided to bench himself in the deciding game 7 due to mental stress - would everyone be as understanding to them as men or would they be told to 'suck it up and stick it out - this is what you signed up for?"

[choclatechip45]

5 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

I’ve followed gymnastics a long time too. The post was talking about a gymnast who was missing her front teeth. That was Kim Gwang-Suk in the early 90’s. She is not Chinese.

People might be talking about Deng Linlin she was the one who was the recipient of Bela's racist rant about milk teeth. 

[Sarahsmile416]

27 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

This is an amazing article ESPN did on Suni https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31849287/us-gymnastics-star-sunisa-lee-long-winding-journey-olympics-2021. 

I love Suni so glad people are noticing her more! I hope she wins an AA medal. 

That’s an incredible article.  Wow.  She and her family are amazing ❤️❤️

[SeanC]

50 minutes ago, Dani said:

It wasn’t even just the media. Tom Forster was spewing that crap about how the US is dominant that they could field 3 gold medal winning teams and that the Olympic trials would be more competitive than the Olympics. USA Gymnastics did such a disservice to the gymnasts by acting like they were unbeatable. Not to mention how insulting it is to the other countries. 

I would say Forster's bigger sin was that his team selection choices were actively communicating that he was expecting Biles to carry the US to victory no matter what he did, because, as was widely noted, the US team was not built with points maximization in mind.

That didn't singlehandedly cause Biles' problems or anything like that, but the most important thing a federation can do for its star player is provide them with the strongest support team possible (to be clear, this isn't a criticism of the quality of any of the other girls on the team, but objectively this team was not put together according to best principles, and Biles was obviously aware of that and the reason why the US felt comfortable doing that).

[Lady Whistleup]

5 minutes ago, ctlady said:

Agreed - but this is what comes along with competing in a sport.  There is going to be pressure, anxiety, stress, being overwhelmed, etc.  I feel for her and hope she is okay.  To do this in the middle of the games - especially when it isn't just your own success on the line but that of your teammates who are counting on you is what I'm having trouble digesting.  

Someone earlier on the radio put it like this - if Tom Brady had decided to take himself out of the Superbowl in the 3rd quarter with the game tied or if LeBron James had decided to bench himself in the deciding game 7 due to mental stress - would everyone be as understanding to them as men or would they be told to 'suck it up and stick it out - this is what you signed up for?"

Hmm. This year's NBA playoffs actually became a running injury count. Some of the biggest stars went down with injuries, from Kyrie Irving to Kawhi Leonard to Anthony Davis. No one was saying "hey Kawhi we know you blew out your knee but come back and play for the Clippers." 

It's the "beauty" of competition -- unpredictable things happen. Simone having a panic/anxiety attack was unexpected but she took herself out and IMO it shouldn't be looked upon differently than, say, Anthony Davis taking himself out because of a groin injury.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

This was definitely Chinese gymnasts they were talking about, it was quite a while ago (I've watched gymnastics at the Olympics, and world championships for years, and I definitely remember that).   Probably in 2000-2010 time frame.     It was when China was really winning, and I don't even remember the North Koreans being mentioned.   

I think the Korean gymnast who regrew a missing tooth is being confused with Deng Linlin. In 2008 there was a lot of talk about her being underage because of a missing tooth. I’m pretty sure she just had an impacted tooth that was later fixed. Unless she was missing a baby tooth for 4 years since she had the same smile in 2012.

[dovegrey]

2 minutes ago, ctlady said:

Agreed - but this is what comes along with competing in a sport.  There is going to be pressure, anxiety, stress, being overwhelmed, etc.  I feel for her and hope she is okay.  To do this in the middle of the games - especially when it isn't just your own success on the line but that of your teammates who are counting on you is what I'm having trouble digesting.  

Someone earlier on the radio put it like this - if Tom Brady had decided to take himself out of the Superbowl in the 3rd quarter with the game tied or if LeBron James had decided to bench himself in the deciding game 7 due to mental stress - would everyone be as understanding to them as men or would they be told to 'suck it up and stick it out - this is what you signed up for?"

If Biles had snapped her ankle in half while landing her vault and decided to stop competition, very few would be saying she “choked” or “picked” today to give up. As someone who both practices in and teaches in the mental health profession, it’s very frustrating when mental health challenges are contextualized as a choice, a weakness, and/or a failure to be strong, while physical health challenges are contextualized as bad luck, unavoidable, and/or a sign of how hard the athlete persisted. 

Tom Brady deciding to keep throwing a football while having a panic attack is going to get him sacked and benched. Simone Biles deciding to keep flipping, twisting, flying around bars, and flipping upside down around a 4" wide beam while having a panic attack is going to get her seriously and permanently injured (see also: Simone's "lost in the air" vault, where she was still trying to complete her twist instead of landing). And then there goes the ~medal count,~ which 95% of people will forget about by the end of August. Do we really need to keep pushing athletes to the brink of mental collapse, which THEN leads to physical injury, for them to be considered valuable? I really hope not.

And I really hope Biles capitalizes on this and ignites a discussion. As it is, I feel like we're (general) still in 1950 when it comes to mental health awareness and stigma.

[choclatechip45]

Just now, SeanC said:

I would say Forster's bigger sin was that his team selection choices were actively communicating that he was expecting Biles to carry the US to victory no matter what he did, because, as was widely noted, the US team was not built with points maximization in mind.

That didn't singlehandedly cause Biles' problems or anything like that, but the most important thing a federation can do for its star player is provide them with the strongest support team possible (to be clear, this isn't a criticism of the quality of any of the other girls on the team, but objectively this team was not put together according to best principles, and Biles was obviously aware of that and the reason why the US felt comfortable doing that).

He also didn't communicate why choosing Grace was a smart choice in case someone got injured or something like today happened. I hate Martha, but she clearly gave the reasons why Gabby was chosen in 2016 (she wanted 3 all around gymnasts and one of those gymnasts had to be good at bars). 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, SeanC said:

I would say Forster's bigger sin was that his team selection choices were actively communicating that he was expecting Biles to carry the US to victory no matter what he did, because, as was widely noted, the US team was not built with points maximization in mind.

That didn't singlehandedly cause Biles' problems or anything like that, but the most important thing a federation can do for its star player is provide them with the strongest support team possible (to be clear, this isn't a criticism of the quality of any of the other girls on the team, but objectively this team was not put together according to best principles, and Biles was obviously aware of that and the reason why the US felt comfortable doing that).

He has plenty of sins to chose from. 

[Dots And Stripes]

2 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

He also didn't communicate why choosing Grace was a smart choice in case someone got injured or something like today happened. I hate Martha, but she clearly gave the reasons why Gabby was chosen in 2016 (she wanted 3 all around gymnasts and one of those gymnasts had to be good at bars). 

To be fair though, putting the 7th place athlete on the team is a decision that needs more explanation than putting the 4th place athlete on the team. 

I think USA Gymnastics still needs to clean house (Ali said as much as it has not rooted out all of the abuse enablers) and does need better public communication. That said, I would say be careful what you wish for replacing Tom. My fear is that after today the voices saying it's a choice between gold and rooting out abuse will feel empowered. Tom has said, and I hope he means it, that he doesn't see it as a choice and he wants the program to pursue gold while respecting the health and well being of the athletes. I could definitely see a replacement feeling that a "tougher" style is needed. That would be a step in the wrong direction.