S01.E09: A Secret of My Own

[jewel21]

Kate’s closely held secrets and fragmented memories of her time in Martin’s captivity are brought to the surface.

Airdate: 06/08/2021

[Spartan Girl]

This episode was painful. 

Part of me wasn’t surprised that Harris groomed her into a relationship and basically brainwashed her into staying hidden in his house for the first few months. It was nauseating to watch, but I’m still firmly on Kate’s side. That wasn’t a relationship, it was Stockholm Syndrome. He was an adult, he was the one in charge, he had power over her. It’s not her fault. He manipulated her, isolated her, guilted her, and when all that stopped working, he locked her up.

Kudos to whoever cast Harris because he really looks like Norman Bates.

Boy that part with Joy and Rod breaking down…that was the most I felt sorry for Joy in this whole show.

So that explains how she got Jeanette’s necklace, but I’ll bet that wasn’t the last time Jeanette broke into the house. And I still hate that Jeanette is going to use all this against Kate in court. And I’m sickened to see all the victim blaming on Twitter: saying that Kate “put herself” into that mess. As if that absolves Jeanette of everything?  Kate was brainwashed, what’s Jeanette’s excuse, other than being addicted to the thrill of snooping and stealing.

Only one episode left!!!!!

Edited June 9, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[Jx223]

I think this was one of the most interesting episodes from this season. I think it was interesting and also necessary that this particular episode was told over the course of a few months.

I had thought that maybe Kate and Martin had an (inappropriate) relationship prior to him holding her captive. But I didn't expect it to be like 120 days long (from like August to Christmas). It was something how they bonded and Kate felt like she could have a life with Martin. He had ample chances to really encourage her to go home to her family. Especially early on. And she had some opportunities to leave as well, but didn't take really take advantage of them.

Also, we finally got to see what happened with Jeanette. She did go into the house but it didn't look like she saw Kate. I believe Kate lied about that and that was partly driven by her anger of becoming manipulated by Martin and resentful that Jeanette had gotten her old life. Jeanette did not appear to see Kate at all. She seemed a bit fidgety, but I think that was largely because she was breaking into Martin's house again and was concerned she might get caught.

Jeanette did get some sort of thrill of breaking into Martin's house, but I do not believe she saw Kate and didn't say anything to anyone about it. In fact I think she would have told/tried to tell someone about it and probably even tried to talk to Kate herself, if she had really seen herself. I think the only thing that Kate told the truth about regarding that day regarding Jeanette was that she was in the house in December. That was it. I think the she lied about the rest of the situation. And that's the only time she mentioned that Jeanette saw her. Jeanette may or may not have gone into the house after that, but Kate only mentioned seeing her in December.

Kate calling Jamie was also something that I thought had happened prior to tonight's episode.

I wonder what will happen next week and if/how all of the truth will come out. Kate was abused by Martin, but I do believe that Jeanette was innocent from what Kate claimed. And she didn't deserve to have her life ruined because of what Martin did to Kate Or even because she lied about other things, did some other things she shouldn't have (like constantly broke into Martin's house). So I wonder if some sort of vindication will come for Jeanette. And maybe even some understanding between the girls. 

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Jx223

[KaveDweller]

I figured Kate was upstairs for awhile, but I never would have guessed it was so long.  Martin is still a terrible creep though....she was 16 and he manipulated her into staying away from her family and never leaving. And had her thinking she was making a choice and that she was responsible for protecting him. He manipulated her so well, she actually went into the basement for her suitcase after she said he was scaring her and acting like a kidnapper. 

So sad to think that if Kate got to her parent's house two minutes later she might have decided to go in.

Jeanette looked spooked by something she saw in the house, but it looked like Kate was in the other room upstairs so it seems like it would have been hard to have seen her. Maybe she just saw a shadow that someone was up there? I wonder if this was the first time Jeanette had been back in the house. It seems like Kate would have noticed a previous break in.

I have no idea how we are going to wrap everything up in one more episode.

[ZeeEnnui]

20 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

This episode was painful. 

Part of me wasn’t surprised that Harris groomed her into a relationship and basically brainwashed her into staying hidden in his house for the first few months. It was nauseating to watch, but I’m still firmly on Kate’s side. That wasn’t a relationship, it was Stockholm Syndrome. He was an adult, he was the one in charge, he had power over her. It’s not her fault. He manipulated her, isolated her, guilted her, and when all that stopped working, he locked her up.

This episode was so uncomfortable to watch. My skin was crawling!

I think one of the reasons this was such an excruciatingly uncomfortable episode to watch was because it was so easy to see how a teenager like Kate could be manipulated like that. The way he poured them both a drink -- but don't drink that, you're not old enough. Wink -- or asked her if she'd ever kissed someone much older was so creepy. You don't want Kate to fall for it, but you know she will because she's sixteen with a horrible home life and this trusted authority figure is listening to what she has to say. Then watching them play house together, and we see those brief, disturbing looks on Martin's face but Kate doesn't because she's in full Stockholm Syndrome mode. Both actors killed it. 

Thank god for the therapist chiming in to bluntly bring us back to reality, and break the tension.

Did Martin purchase that snow globe at a haunted antiques store? Real cheerful. Okay so now we know how Kate got the necklace, and why the snow globe is important, but I guess I'm not seeing how Jeanette is going to use it to help her case. Kate was hiding upstairs, and Jeanette didn't see Kate. Also, this would bust Jeanette who had been in and out of Martin's house for months. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that she went back again, and that's when Kate thought Jeanette "saw" her. 

I'm excited for next week, but also dreading seeing Kate get attacked by Jeanette's shark lawyer. 

Who is Annabelle?!? I need the show to answer this burning question next week.

Edited June 9, 2021 by ZeeEnnui
typo

[Jx223]

6 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I figured Kate was upstairs for awhile, but I never would have guessed it was so long.  Martin is still a terrible creep though....she was 16 and he manipulated her into staying away from her family and never leaving. And had her thinking she was making a choice and that she was responsible for protecting him. He manipulated her so well, she actually went into the basement for her suitcase after she said he was scaring her and acting like a kidnapper. 

So sad to think that if Kate got to her parent's house two minutes later she might have decided to go in.

Jeanette looked spooked by something she saw in the house, but it looked like Kate was in the other room upstairs so it seems like it would have been hard to have seen her. Maybe she just saw a shadow that someone was up there? I wonder if this was the first time Jeanette had been back in the house. It seems like Kate would have noticed a previous break in.

I have no idea how we are going to wrap everything up in one more episode.

Maybe she did see a shadow. And that made her extra jumpy about being caught in Martin's house. She might have even thought someone was there, but even if that were the case, I don't think she would have thought that person was Kate. I think that after Jeanette got the snowglobe and was a bit spooked she decided to hightail it out of there. I think that if Jeanette really saw Kate she would have talked to her or at least ran and told someone about it.

In tonight's show Jeanette looked she was getting closer to her Queen Bee era (she wasn't wearing her glasses) but she still had an awkwardness about her and wasn't shown with Jamie or any of the other popular kids. It didn't seem like she had completely moved on with them. I don't think even at that point she would have had much of a motive to have kept possibly seeing Kate a secret. I think she would have felt more compelled to tell someone if she really saw her. 

I do believe that was the first time since Kate started to live with Martin that Jeanette had been back into the house. Kate stayed at the house just about all of the time, so I definitely think she would have seen Jeanette if she had broken into it another time while she was there. 

I am definitely interested in seeing how they wrap this season up. Next week Kate appears to be doubling down on Jeanette "seeing" her. But I do believe she's being dishonest about that and is doing that for multiple reasons. (Resentfulness of Jeanette for living a better life than her during the year she was with Martin, and trying to prevent people from digging more into all that happened between her and Martin).

 

[KaveDweller]

8 minutes ago, Jx223 said:

I am definitely interested in seeing how they wrap this season up. Next week Kate appears to be doubling down on Jeanette "seeing" her. But I do believe she's being dishonest about that and is doing that for multiple reasons. (Resentfulness of Jeanette for living a better life than her during the year she was with Martin, and trying to prevent people from digging more into all that happened between her and Martin).

Kate may be distorting her memory of what happened when Jeanette broke in, she may remember what she wish happened. She was locked up immediately after it happened and that can mess with your mind. We also know she doesn't remember who Annabelle is, so it is established her memory of her time isn't perfect.

But it seems she hasn't told anyone but her therapist (and her sister via chat) about how she really ended up in his house. I kind of don't blame her for that.

[paulvdb]

37 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Jeanette looked spooked by something she saw in the house, but it looked like Kate was in the other room upstairs so it seems like it would have been hard to have seen her. Maybe she just saw a shadow that someone was up there? I wonder if this was the first time Jeanette had been back in the house. It seems like Kate would have noticed a previous break in.

We heard the floor creak when Kate took a step upstairs and that spooked Jeanette. Jeanette didn't see Kate,

[Ambrosefolly]

I say this posted on YouTube, but I didn't think that if Jeanette was wearing her glasses or contacts, she would not have recognized Kate. 

[Chicken Wing]

This episode was creepy AF and probably also the best one of the season. I felt like I needed a shower the entire time. 

This show has been really interesting in holding back how Kate wound up in Martin's clutches and how long she was actually a prisoner. From the first episode, you would think he flat-out kidnapped her the night they met. But no, that wasn't it. And then you see how he grooms her and she falls into believing he is a trusted friend and you think, maybe she visited him on some occasion and then he locked her in the basement. But nope. Then we see that she ran away from home and went straight to his house looking for a place to hide, and you figure that, okay, that happened for a day or two but then he locked her away. Nope. He manipulated her into a relationship and she lived in the house, lived with him, upstairs, willingly (so she thinks) for months.

Damn.

Martin Harris is so, so, so creepy. I felt so bad for Kate the entire time. He brainwashed her so well. She really believed they were in some kind of star-crossed lovers romance that no one can understand and someday they can just run away and be together someplace where no one will judge them and barf.

I can see how 1994 and 1995 Kate is so horribly traumatized by her ordeal -- not just because was she held against her will trapped in a basement for months, but because she undoubtedly blames herself for a lot of it. For going there. For staying there "willingly" for so long. For believing she was in love with Martin and, now that he's dead, probably feeling some grief over that and feeling guilty for grieving him.

Obviously what happened wasn't her fault, no matter how it started, no matter how long things were "good" before they turned "bad." All that matters is how it ended. Even if she were a legal, consenting adult and she and Martin were just in some clandestine romance that was secret for no particular reason, once he wouldn't let her leave when she wanted to, he would still at that point be a kidnapper and she his victim and everything from that point on would still be a crime. Except this is even more of a crime, because she is not a consenting adult and she had no business being there from day one and he knew that she could not consent to being there and being with him because she's a minor and their entire "relationship" was a crime that he forced on her without her even realizing it.

As for the Jeanette of it all: It makes sense now how Kate's accusation seemed so weak and seemingly deliberately vague and backed up by so little evidence. To admit how and where she saw Jeanette, Kate would have to admit that she wasn't actually trapped in the basement the whole time. She was in the living room, freely wandering about the house. Months after she disappeared. And she's no doubt terrified that she will be blamed -- that she is to blame -- for how it went down in the end starting Christmas night. That maybe people will doubt her whole story of what did happen to her after that point. Or that she asked for it. All the things victims find themselves feeling.

And as for Jeanette seeing Kate or not ... we still don't know the answer to that one. It seems clear that Jeanette didn't see anything while she was standing in the house. She heard a noise from upstairs (a floor board creek, was it?) and bolted out the front door right away. Kate was still hiding behind the wall upstairs, very much out of view. But after she left, after Kate came back downstairs and turned off the light, Kate tripped over something and it made another, much louder noise. Loud enough that Jeanette might have heard it from the front yard. We see Kate go to the front window and look outside -- The Moment -- but we don't see Jeanette's perspective. We go from seeing Kate looking out the window to the lower part of Jeanette's bicycle as she begins to ride away. We don't see Jeanette herself. We don't see if Jeanette looked back at the house when she heard the loud noise. We don't know if she saw Kate. We still don't know the answer to the question.

I'm inclined to think that Jeanette didn't. It still could be the case of both girls telling the truth -- Jeanette really didn't see anything, and Kate only thinks she saw her see her but she didn't. It was pitch black in the house after Kate turned out the light, and it was nighttime outside. In that type of "lighting" situation you typically can't see inside the house from the outside. It's possible Jeanette did look right back at Kate's direction, seemingly right in Kate's eyeline, but saw nothing but darkness. Or she did see her and didn't say anything. Or Kate is flat out lying. We just don't know yet.

The snow globe and the answering machine message. Okay, we see where those all came in. It was Kate calling Jamie and the movie was playing in the background while Kate was breathing heavily as she panicked as to whether to actually say anything. Jeanette broke into Martin's house again and stole the snow globe because she's ... weird. But I'm still confused as to why Jeanette, in last week's episode, desperately wanted to recover the snow globe after she heard Jamie's recording of the message. I guess she recognized the snow globe music in the background and knew that it was The Snow Globe that she took, because she played it herself. Maybe this is her proof that Kate is lying about what happened to her? Because she knows the snow globe was in the living room, if it was Kate calling Jamie with the snow globe playing in the background that would mean that she was in the living room and therefore not trapped in the basement? Of course, that would force Jeanette to admit that she broke into Martin's house, but yeah. I don't know, I'm so confused. 

Is it next week yet?

Edited June 9, 2021 by Chicken Wing

[racked]

I think Jeanette is going to get Jamie to play the answering machine message to prove Kate called him from Martin’s house (with the snow globe music playing in the background). She will also need Mallory to back her up that Jeanette stole it from the house. Flimsy defense (certainly not the only snow globe that plays that song and maybe Martin is the one who called him) but that’s my guess. 
 

It seemed pretty clear Jeannette didn’t see Kate but I could see why Kate would cling to that as a place to put all her anger at Martin who is 1) dead and 2) someone she surely has confusing feelings for. What a great, creepy episode. The actor playing Martin has a total Ned Bates vibe to him that really works here. 
 

So when did Jeanette get “cool” and take over Kates old life?

Edited June 9, 2021 by racked

[gesundheit]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

This episode was painful. 

Part of me wasn’t surprised that Harris groomed her into a relationship and basically brainwashed her into staying hidden in his house for the first few months. It was nauseating to watch, but I’m still firmly on Kate’s side. That wasn’t a relationship, it was Stockholm Syndrome. He was an adult, he was the one in charge, he had power over her. It’s not her fault. He manipulated her, isolated her, guilted her, and when all that stopped working, he locked her up.

Eventually it also became Stockholm Syndrome, but even before that it was always rape. She could have been having a relationship with him secretly while still living her regular life and it would still have been rape. It's so sad to see her not able to understand that and feel like she has to hide the first part. Every second of it was criminal for him, nothing she did made it happen. And the show did such a perfect job of showing how she could be convinced that she was in it willingly, that she gave consent. Sadly I fear it might be lost on some of the viewing demographic (understandably, but unfortunately) and in turn might be seen as a mitigating factor. It's not. She was the victim from the moment he let her in the door. 

1 hour ago, ZeeEnnui said:

This episode was so uncomfortable to watch. My skin was crawling!

I think one of the reasons this was such an excruciatingly uncomfortable episode to watch was because it was so easy to see how a teenager like Kate could be manipulated like that. The way he poured them both a drink -- but don't drink that, you're not old enough. Wink -- or asked her if she'd ever kissed someone much older was so creepy. You don't want Kate to fall for it, but you know she will because she's sixteen with a horrible home life and this trusted authority figure is listening to what she has to say. Then watching them play house together, and we see those brief, disturbing looks on Martin's face but Kate doesn't because she's in full Stockholm Syndrome mode. Both actors killed it. 

Thank god for the therapist chiming in to bluntly bring us back to reality, and break the tension.

I'm excited for next week, but also dreading seeing Kate get attacked by Jeanette's shark lawyer. 

"Excruciatingly uncomfortable" is the perfect description. It was painful and heartbreaking. I'm so glad the therapist was there to explain what was really happening because Kate absolutely could not see it. 

I was disappointed in the ad for next week, I was hoping it wouldn't go to court and they'd figure things out before it went that far. This show is so good at the small moments between humans and I wanted it to end on that note, not courtroom theatrics. I'm sad that the original theory that Kate really did think Jeanette saw her (even though she didn't) is out the window because she seemed so sincere... but at the same time she may have started hallucinating or mixing things up. It seems that Jeanette thinks the snow globe could prove something because she must've realized that's when Kate made the phone call and she knew she heard a sound from upstairs (not the basement). Perhaps hoping that'll prove that Kate was there willingly, perhaps also she told Mallory about the incident and that's why Mallory doesn't want to give up the snow globe? To protect Kate? But I'm not sure why the snow globe itself is going to absolve Jeanette or prove that Kate was upstairs. 

(Yikes, does Jeanette somehow think maybe Kate lied about all of it? Like was literally never locked up and invented the story or something, instead of just about timing? We still don't really know what her story was or how they even found out, right? We know he died while being apprehended, but there's an awful lot we don't know unless I'm seriously forgetting major early plot points.)

Anyway it seems that both girls have done plenty of lying but also a disproportionate amount of suffering (obviously Kate more so, but I think it's safe to say a kid who sneaks into someone's house a bunch of times and lies so she doesn't get in trouble for it doesn't warrant becoming a pariah and "the most hated kid in America" or whatever). I can't fathom what could happen next week to ease the pain on both of them but that's all I want.

 

Edited to add: ha, I see a lot of people were posting exactly what I was writing before I hit "save!" Sorry for repeating things folks were already saying!

Edited June 9, 2021 by gesundheit

[LittleIggy]

Hey, I was right about Jeanette recognizing the snow globe music on that answering machine recording.  
Turns out Kate is a big liar. 😮

[gesundheit]

8 minutes ago, racked said:

So when did Jeanette get “cool” and take over Kates old life?

I really really really really do not believe we are going to be particularly satisfied next week. There is no way in 44 minutes or however much time they have they are going to fill in all the blanks, especially with all this courtroom stuff going on. Despite quite appreciating a lot of things about this show, I have to maintain that this effort to push everything till the last second has deprived of what obviously would've been well done drama. I wish they would've had more faith in their whole story and not just the mystery gimmicks. It's a good story all on its own!

(Of course it's apparently the biggest hit in the history of the network, so what do I know? It's not like they're going to look at it to figure out what didn't work, they're just going to look at what did. I hope they see the excellent depiction of messy adolescence and the very real representation of grooming as the standouts here and not the framing device.)

[LittleIggy]

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I believe Martin thought Kate would leave and go to school then back home after that first evening when she showed up. I don’t think he initially planned the whole thing. Not excusing his subsequent behavior, just saying...

[Jx223]

23 minutes ago, racked said:

I think Jeanette is going to get Jamie to play the answering machine message to prove Kate called him from Martin’s house (with the snow globe music playing in the background). She will also need Mallory to back her up that Jeanette stole it from the house. Flimsy defense (certainly not the only snow globe that plays that song and maybe Martin is the one who called him) but that’s my guess. 
 

It seemed pretty clear Jeannette didn’t see Kate but I could see why Kate would cling to that as a place to put all her anger at Martin who is 1) dead and 2) someone she surely has confusing feelings for. What a great, creepy episode. The actor playing Martin has a total Ned Bates vibe to him that really works here. 
 

So when did Jeanette get “cool” and take over Kates old life?

I'm not sure but it looks like it was after Christmas. That transformation didn't happen quite as quickly as I thought it would. Just like Kate being held captive by Martin against her will didn't happen right away. It would have been nice to see at least one episode that focused on Jeanette's transformation. They could have even done it in the same format they did in tonight's episode, showed it played out over the course of a few months in one episode. (Or multiple episodes if they had more time). I think that is one interesting part of this story that hasn't been focused on enough. We really have just seen like one day of Jeanette enjoying her popularity (in the very first episode) and then her life going downhill after Kate is rescued.

Prior to tonight's episode I think that the two biggest components in this story that were being featured enough was Martin/his behavior/interaction with Kate and what happened during Jeanette's transformation/rise to the top. We got a lot more insight into Martin and Kate's situation with during tonight's show. I don't think we are going to really get to see more regarding Jeanette's transformation next week.

19 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

(Yikes, does Jeanette somehow think maybe Kate lied about all of it? Like was literally never locked up and invented the story or something, instead of just about timing? We still don't really know what her story was or how they even found out, right? We know he died while being apprehended, but there's an awful lot we don't know unless I'm seriously forgetting major early plot points.)

Anyway it seems that both girls have done plenty of lying but also a disproportionate amount of suffering (obviously Kate more so, but I think it's safe to say a kid who sneaks into someone's house a bunch of times and lies so she doesn't get in trouble for it doesn't warrant becoming a pariah and "the most hated kid in America" or whatever). I can't fathom what could happen next week to ease the pain on both of them but that's all I want.

 

Edited to add: ha, I see a lot of people were posting exactly what I was writing before I hit "save!" Sorry for repeating things folks were already saying!

I don't think that Jeanette believes that Kate is lying about everything. She did say early on after Kate accused her that she thinks that Kate's trauma was playing a role in things. I do believe that she thinks that Kate was traumatized by Martin, but I believe that Jeanette knows she's innocent of what Kate accused her of. And is understandably upset that Kate held firm with her lie about seeing her and how that caused Jeanette's life to really go downhill. 

I think that next week Kate's lies may come to light (as well as Jeanette wrongdoings like constantly breaking into Martin's house). I could see that happening and maybe Kate breaking down on the stand as she reveals a lot of what happened between her and Martin. Maybe Jeanette might actually end up having some sympathy for her once that truth comes out and that could have an impact on the trial.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Jx223

[Chicken Wing]

16 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I believe Martin thought Kate would leave and go to school then back home after that first evening when she showed up. I don’t think he initially planned the whole thing. Not excusing his subsequent behavior, just saying...

Yes, I think this is correct. When he left that morning he told her he assumed she would walk to school by herself, and when he came home that evening after being confronted by Joy Wallis he was angry that she didn't leave his house like he thought, and she probably said, she would.

Just part of what makes him so manipulative, really. Just about every one of their interactions is laden with subtle impropriety from an adult authority figure to a minor child, but every now and then he sprinkles in some normal, "responsible" adult responses that would make Kate think that he can't possibly be up to no good, then he's perfectly normal. Like when he told her that she really should call him Mr. Harris and not Martin ... at least when they're in school. And then pouring her a scotch and then "remembering" that she's underage and she shouldn't drink that ... but then immediately agreeing to play a drinking game with her. And pointing out correctly that it would look very bad if people found out that she stayed at his house last night and all day ... but especially bad for him, and does she want him to get in trouble? Creepy AF.

Another interesting thing about this show is how all of Martin's behavior is very calculated and also not. Yes, he is grooming her, had been since the moment they met. He wanted to manipulate her into trusting him as a confidante, a friend, to make her come to him. And, of course, she did, in the end. But did he always intend for her to come willingly to his doorstep looking for a place to stay? If she hadn't, would he have grabbed her off the street, or manipulated her into going to his house and trapped her then? I don't know. As it happened, she just came to him, showed up at his house. And then he thought she would leave in the morning, but she didn't. And he told her to leave that night, and she wouldn't. And then it was like, he's got her, he was after her and he caught her and she's still here, still caught, staying caught, and he couldn't let her go. It was all on purpose, all predatory, all clearly a trap but also so subtle and seemingly coincidental that Kate couldn't possibly have even realized that she was in a snare the whole time.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Chicken Wing

[gesundheit]

12 minutes ago, Jx223 said:

I'm not sure but it looks like it was after Christmas. That transformation didn't happen quite as quickly as I thought it would. Just like Kate being held captive by Martin against her will didn't happen right away. It would have been nice to see at least one episode that focused on Jeanette's transformation. They could have even done it in the same format they did in tonight's episode, showed it played out over the course of a few months in one episode. (Or multiple episodes if they had more time). I think that is one interesting part of this story that hasn't been focused on enough. We really have just seen like one day of Jeanette enjoying her popularity (in the very first episode) and then her life going downhill after Kate is rescued.

Definitely surprising that it was basically after the new year that Jeanette's transformation really picked up but by June she was fully entrenched with that crowd and Jamie was already in love with her and tight with her family and talking about marriage. I know things happen fast in high school but that's a lot. 

On the other hand maybe those girls spruced her up because they needed a project, thinking their bestie had run off without them. And people were telling Jamie that Jeanette was "good for him" so he probably did know he was dating "below his rank" and felt like it was a healthy choice to get with a nerdy girl (which in turned helped her up the echelons). The girl is gorgeous, it's not exactly hard to believe she found a way to show it off a little more.

All I know is we better see her angrily chop off her own hair!

 

[gesundheit]

22 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I believe Martin thought Kate would leave and go to school then back home after that first evening when she showed up. I don’t think he initially planned the whole thing. Not excusing his subsequent behavior, just saying...

Of course he didn't! The whole thing certainly crept up on him. There are people who have something untoward fall in their lap unexpectedly and do the right thing, and those that do the wrong thing. He did the wrong thing.

As for the grooming, it's not like he sat down and made this long term diabolical plan. Not at all. I think the show did a frighteningly good job of showing him testing boundaries, noticing what behavior his comments could generate, etc. Liking it, repeating it. I appreciated that. He wasn't twirling a mustache, but stumbling upon things that worked and liking how it felt. Frankly a much more insidious kind of predator because it's less obvious.

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

This episode was painful. 

Part of me wasn’t surprised that Harris groomed her into a relationship and basically brainwashed her into staying hidden in his house for the first few months. It was nauseating to watch, but I’m still firmly on Kate’s side. That wasn’t a relationship, it was Stockholm Syndrome. He was an adult, he was the one in charge, he had power over her. It’s not her fault. He manipulated her, isolated her, guilted her, and when all that stopped working, he locked her up.

Kudos to whoever cast Harris because he really looks like Norman Bates.

Boy that part with Joy and Rod breaking down…that was the most I felt sorry for Joy in this whole show.

So that explains how she got Jeanette’s necklace, but I’ll bet that wasn’t the last time Jeanette broke into the house. And I still hate that Jeanette is going to use all this against Kate in court. And I’m sickened to see all the victim blaming on Twitter: saying that Kate “put herself” into that mess. As if that absolves Jeanette of everything?  Kate was brainwashed, what’s Jeanette’s excuse, other than being addicted to the thrill of snooping and stealing.

Only one episode left!!!!!

Excuse for what? 

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, gesundheit said:

Sadly I fear it might be lost on some of the viewing demographic (understandably, but unfortunately) and in turn might be seen as a mitigating factor. It's not. She was the victim from the moment he let her in the door. 

How is this “understandable “ at all? 

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, LittleIggy said:

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I believe Martin thought Kate would leave and go to school then back home after that first evening when she showed up. I don’t think he initially planned the whole thing. Not excusing his subsequent behavior, just saying...

He absolutely did. And then it all changed.

[CharethCutestory]

I still have the suspicion that Mallory knew Kate was there. I guess its plausible that she's keeping things like the yearbook, the snow globe and knowledge of how many times Jeanette was in Martin's house from Kate to protect Jeanette who she still has  soft spot for as they were best friends for so long. But, I tend to think it's more about covering her own behind because she was the one Kate "locked eyes" with but Kate mistakes her for Jeanette. I don't think Jeanette saw Kate on Christmas Eve, Jeanette isn't lying about that, but Kate's trauma is causing her to think that Jeanette saw her as subconsciously she was desperate to get out at that point and/or she's conflating two different memories. 

Could be that after Mallory finds out Jeanette has been going back to the house and they have the fight we see in the promo, she decides to go to Martin's house and rat Jeanette out or suggest he change his locks or something. Give back his snow globe? Doesn't Mallory have the same card in the spokes of her bicycle as Jeanette? Something that was zeroed in on by the camera as Kate's POV when she runs to the window after Jeanette flees the house? Even more likely to make a mix up if Mallory is wearing a hoodie like Jeanette was on Christmas Eve. Kate would be in the basement if Mallory came by post Christmas, likely drugged. Knowing Jeanette has been there before its totally believable and understandable Kate would assume it was her. She may have even had a hint of doubt but Martin's taunts about Jeanette taking her place and then seeing it for herself post rescue would fuel her justification that it was Jeanette she saw.

Maybe Martin isn't home and Mallory being a bit of a snoop and trouble maker herself walks around the house and that's when she peers into the basement window and sees Kate there and they lock eyes. Mallory can't believe it and Kate, half lucid from the drugs thinks it's Jeanette again. The story she told the cops about hearing someone break in and then peering through the basement window to lock eyes with the person are two separate occasions but like the break in, the basement part will be proven to happen, just not as a traumatized Kate remembers it.

I keep thinking of Mallory saying the last thing the town needed was another Kate Wallis. She hated Kate without even knowing her, just due to the BS boxes adolescent society unfortunately continues to pigeon hole kids into as they're coming into their own. To quote the good 'ol breakfast club, "you see us as you want to see us...a brain...an athlete, a basket case, a princess, and a criminal." Mallory has a lot of anger and her own trauma, we get things have been rough for her at home growing up. Seeing Kate and not saying anything because in her mind, the town was better without her, is not inconceivable, IMO. Do I think she comes to regret it and is trying to rectify things by being Kate's friend, for sure. But I also think she has her own secrets to protect about what she knows.

[RachelKM]

Holy hell that was uncomfortable. I don't know how long it's going to take for my skin to stop crawling.  I agree that Martin didn't really plan any of it as it happened.  He was clearly grooming Kate from jump.  But I think if she hadn't ended up at his house it would have been a slow developing inappropriate flirtation which may never have crossed the line to the physical or at least not remotely as it did.

Poor Kate.  She definitely blames herself as well as having conflicting thoughts about Martin even months after she was free.  It's hard to break that kind of brainwashing. 

I think it is clear after tonight that Jeanette did not see Kate.  For one thing, recognizing the music from the snow globe and rushing off indicates that she only put together that Kate was not in the basement on Christmas Eve in that moment. I don't see how she plans to use the globe, though, unless she intends to out herself as having broken into Martin's house after the initial game her father made her confess to. (I do think that was the only time during Kate's captivity.*)

I also don't think Kate locked eyes with or even thought she locked eyes with Jeanette that night. It seemed as if Jeanette, even when she stumbled, was facing away from the house once she ran and was focused on getting away.  So that leaves either Kate lying or having confused her memories.  I find the idea of Kate having seen Mallory at a later date and combining the memories interesting.  But with only one episode left, that feels cheap since Mallory's POV hasn't been part of the central plot.  It would feel a bit like a cop out to have her involved directly in the central conflict in the final act.  But there could be another innocent explanation. 

I'm honestly not sure which I'd prefer.  On the one hand, I like stories without a villain. (Obviously Martin is a villain. But he isn't the villain of the central conflict which is the truth between Jeanette and Kate). On the other hand, it would be interesting for Kate to be as flawed as Jeanette. At this point, Kate is a  straight victim while Jeanette is more morally complicated.  It might be interesting to have them on a more even footing. That said, Kate is a victim and I don't know that I want her to be also tarnished as a malicious liar, particularly in the final episode.  Oy, so conflicted.

 

*We know of 4 times Jeanette broke in in 1993: 1) the hide and seek, 2) the yearbook, 3) the night Tennille's mom was there, and 4) Christmas Eve.  I doubt we'll learn of additional times.  It seems she did it back to back a those 3 times, was almost caught and then didn't go back until Christmas and only when she saw that Martin was out at the mall. It seems as if the compulsion diminished significantly since there were months during which she didn't do it. And her social life changed at some point probably providing its own thrill. 

In other news, this was tonight's delightful offering from Freeform re: The 700 Club:

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by RachelKM

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Excuse for what? 

I was referring to Jeanette’s excuse for putting herself in this situation with her repeated break ins. Because regardless of whether or not she saw Kate—she didn’t see her on Christmas Eve, but we still don’t know if that was the last time she went to the house so she could have seen her another time—it must be sad that those break ins are part of the reason she’s in this mess. Had she not been sneaking into Harris’ house, she’d still be the girl that took Kate’s place but she wouldn’t have been demonized as an accessory after the fact.

[waving feather]

Damn, this episode is really sad to watch. All the What Ifs. What if Kate has gone to school the next morning? What if she left immediately during that night when Martin told her to? She was so close to escape him and all of her trauma, but just small decisions changed the course of the entire thing. If she has left then, Martin probably would still try to manipulate her into a relationship, but may not have resulted in a kidnapping. But after spending the 2nd night there, there was no way he would have allowed her to leave. It's just really sad because no matter what her therapist tells her, Kate will spend a long time feeling guilty or conflicted. Probably this was why she had such a big reaction to the girl from Martin's past who claimed something about him. At least she finally smashed his grave in 1995, so I am hoping that means she doesn't carry guilt over it anymore.

I'm still hoping that next episode reveals that Kate did not maliciously or spitefully lied about Jeanette seeing her. It would be quite out of character for her. All season long, Kate has shown that she does not have a mean or malicious streak. I mean, she called out Jamie for punching Jeanette.

[JenE4]

So, I think a lot of us guessed Kate went there willingly and stayed as a “happy guest” for a few days before it became “a kidnapping”—but I don’t think any of us guessed 4 months of playing house! 

As for the other central mystery, there was no way Jeanette “locked eyes” with Kate. If the light was still on and she was standing smack in the middle of the open curtains, then yes, but Mallory didn’t even see her with her camera when Kate was standing as such and Mallory was focused on the house. With Jeanette, Kate was hiding in the dark behind the curtain and barely peeking out from behind it. Jeanette was scrambling for her bike and quickly glanced back at the house to see whether anyone saw her, but wasn’t going to wait around to find out, so she definitely didn’t stare into the window and make obvious eye contact…with someone cowering behind the curtains.

With the snow globe audio tape, Kate realized that the noise she heard upstairs was Kate. Meaning, she wasn’t locked in the basement and could have conceivably left the house while Martin was at the mall. Likewise, she called Jamie, so Kate could have easily “helped herself.” She should have told Jamie in the message that she was being held or have called the police herself. (I’m not victim shaming here. The poor girl had Stockholm Syndrome. But would be a reasonable defense for Jeanette.)

Are we allowed to talk about what they showed in the previews? I’ll put it under spoilers just in case, though it’s my speculation based on one line. 
 

Spoiler

We heard Martin say something like, “You want to know what happens when you try to leave? Meet Annabelle.” So I’m guessing Annabelle is the dead body of another girl, and Martin has done this before. I think in 1995, once Kate remembers, they might discover Annabelle’s body behind the mirrors—despite the mirrors being installed prior to Martin moving in. There has been other speculation that “Annabelle” is a gun, and I guess that could fit, too, but not nearly as dramatic as to have to repress your memories over it.

ETA: I forgot to mention my favorite imagery. Kate’s first morning, she goes to the basement. She’s not visible in the mirrors at all, then there are two of her in the mirror—foreshadowing her dual experiences in the house. Then she steps closer, and she has one body and two faces. Two-faced. Goddamnit, they let us know she was going to be a liar!

Edited June 9, 2021 by JenE4

[Chicken Wing]

28 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

With the snow globe audio tape, Kate realized that the noise she heard upstairs was Kate. Meaning, she wasn’t locked in the basement and could have conceivably left the house while Martin was at the mall. Likewise, she called Jamie, so Kate could have easily “helped herself.” She should have told Jamie in the message that she was being held or have called the police herself. (I’m not victim shaming here. The poor girl had Stockholm Syndrome. But would be a reasonable defense for Jeanette.)

But is it a defense for Jeanette? Kate actually being inside the main house and not in the basement as she claimed she was held all the time doesn't actually answer the question of whether or not Jeanette saw her in the house and failed to report it, and that's what's at stake in the Kate vs. Jeanette thing. Really all this revelation does is impugn Kate's testimony about what she says happened to her. Is Jeanette's defense really going to be about discrediting Kate's claim about being a victim, that she was not "trapped" and she could have walked out of that house anytime she wanted? Is that really how Jeanette and/or her lawyer want to prove Kate as a liar? That could serious bite her in the butt.

And the thing is, Kate being upstairs in the house and not in the basement doesn't discount her being held there against her will.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Chicken Wing

[JenE4]

1 minute ago, Chicken Wing said:

But is it a defense for Jeanette? Kate actually being inside the main house and not in the basement as she claimed she was held all the time doesn't actually answer the question of whether or not Jeanette saw her in the house and failed to report it, and that's what's at stake in the Kate vs. Jeanette thing. Really all this revelation does is impugn Kate's testimony about what she says happened to her. Is Jeanette's defense really going to be about discrediting Kate's claim about being a victim, that she was not "trapped" and she could have walked out of that house anytime she wanted?

And the thing is, Kate being upstairs in the house and not in the basement doesn't discount her being held there against her will.

Yes, that’s entirely what Jeanette’s defense is. Both she and her lawyer were salivating over the chat logs in which Kate admits she went there willingly. How can you prove/disprove what someone saw? But you can prove someone is a liar and had means to escape on their own. This is also the 90s. Victim blaming wasn’t “a thing.” No doubt the media would turn on Kate like they did to Jeanette, and Jeanette doesn’t care about that just as long as they leave her alone. Cindy has told her it’s not a good image to sue the victim, but Jeanette doesn’t care. Will she have a change of heart once everything is stirred up in court? Maybe, but until then, yes, her defense is to turn the blame on Kate.

[Cranberry]

8 hours ago, Jx223 said:

I had thought that maybe Kate and Martin had an (inappropriate) relationship prior to him holding her captive. But I didn't expect it to be like 120 days long (from like August to Christmas).

Me neither! I thought a week at most. I was surprised when it hit 30 days, and then even longer...

I obviously don't blame Kate for any of it. He manipulated the hell out of her. We know she was a people-pleaser and didn't like to upset authority figures, and he really leaned on that, guilt-tripping her about how she'd ruin his entire life if she told on him. He made her think certain things were her idea (drinking, kissing him) when he manipulated her into them... all the while flattering her with talk about how she's an old soul. Barf. 

I don't like that this is actually going to court; I was hoping the girls would talk beforehand and resolve all of this. I didn't even realize that defamation trials had juries! That all seems so dramatic for a show that's been mostly... not low-key, exactly, but more about confrontations between individuals, for the most part.  

[Chicken Wing]

15 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

Yes, that’s entirely what Jeanette’s defense is. Both she and her lawyer were salivating over the chat logs in which Kate admits she went there willingly. How can you prove/disprove what someone saw? But you can prove someone is a liar and had means to escape on their own. This is also the 90s. Victim blaming wasn’t “a thing.” No doubt the media would turn on Kate like they did to Jeanette, and Jeanette doesn’t care about that just as long as they leave her alone. Cindy has told her it’s not a good image to sue the victim, but Jeanette doesn’t care. Will she have a change of heart once everything is stirred up in court? Maybe, but until then, yes, her defense is to turn the blame on Kate.

I suppose. I mean, the argument isn't (or at least shouldn't be) necessarily about Kate not being a victim. The chatroom logs proving that Kate went to Martin's house willingly ... Kate living in the house and wandering around unguarded even while Martin was out... These all contradict Kate's statements to the police. If she is lying about what exactly happened to her, why should people assume she isn't also lying about Jeanette seeing her? I guess that's the case, but it runs the serious risk of discrediting Kate's entire experience as someone who was in fact held captive and victimized by Martin Harris. Kate lied about how she ended up at the house (do we know what she told the police/her parents about how she wound up there?) and how long she was actually held in the basement, but she did end up held in the basement. Martin did end up locking her in there and wouldn't let her leave. (And that's not even to talk about how none of her above-basement experience at the house was really consensual either.) If Jeanette isn't careful, this could end up with Kate being accused of literally making the whole thing up altogether, and timeline of events aside, she wasn't. Jeanette's case needs to be more "Kate lied about things, believe me when I say she's lying about me" and less "Kate wasn't really a victim, she lived there willingly and could have left anytime but didn't." But putting forth the truth about the things Kate lied about runs the risk of creating that second narrative whether they mean to or not.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Chicken Wing

[JenE4]

2 minutes ago, Chicken Wing said:

I suppose. I mean, the argument isn't (or at least shouldn't be) necessarily about Kate not being a victim. The chatroom logs proving that Kate went to Martin's house willingly ... Kate living in the house and wandering around unguarded even while Martin was out... These all contradict Kate's statements to the police. If she is lying about what exactly happened to her, why should people assume she isn't also lying about Jeanette seeing her? I guess that's the case, but it runs the serious risk of discrediting Kate's entire experience as someone who was in fact held captive and victimized by Martin Harris. Kate lied about how she ended up at the house (do we know what she told the police/her parents about how she wound up there?) and how long she was actually held in the basement, but she did end up held in the basement. Martin did end up locking her in there and wouldn't let her leave. (And that's not even to talk about how none of her above-basement experience at the house was really consensual either.) If Jeanette isn't careful, this could end up with Kate being accused of literally making the whole thing up altogether, and timeline of events aside, she wasn't.

Yes, I totally agree with you! It’s terrible! By the time she was rescued, I’m sure it was obvious that she was held in that basement for some time, but it does seem like Kate is going to be forced to admit the full truth. I have a feeling they’ll have her therapist on the stand to explain what we heard, too, that all of it was grooming, and he used his position of power and manipulation against her, so I don’t think either girl is going to come off as “the perpetrator of lies,” but we’ll relate to each of them as victims—Kate for what happened to her with Martin and Jeanette in the aftermath.

This is totally off topic now, but watching this makes me think back to this time period and what happened to Monica Lewinsky and that 16-year-old “Long Island Lolita” who shot “her boyfriend’s” wife, Mary Jo Buttafucco. Not a single person stood up for these girls and said they were raped by grown men in positions of power. Instead they were eviscerated by the media and completely blamed as these manipulative harlots! To this day, Moe’s (the burrito chain) still has a dish called the Lewinsky! I guess in that way, this show is really putting a lens on how different the world was. Jamie PUNCHED Jeanette, and NO ONE is making this kid take any accountability. “He can’t help it” that he was defending his other girlfriend feasibly could have been viewed as a valid reason back then! Watching this show is actually making me angry thinking back to what we “accepted” back then—but also how different the world (well, some parts of the world) is now, and I guess that’s a good thing. But, I’m guessing there’s a generation gap in the lens of viewing this show. I know there are others about my age here reminiscing about what life was like for us as a teen in the 90s. But this is Freeform, so I bet most viewers are younger and are watching this from their current world  view, and I can understand feeling incredulous that how can they possibly tear apart either one of these young girls who were victimized? But, for the 90s, this checks out. Jeanette WOULD have been the butt of late-night talk show jokes, etc., and that’s just really sad. 

[RachelKM]

22 minutes ago, Chicken Wing said:

Jeanette's case needs to be more "Kate lied about things, believe me when I say she's lying about me" and less "Kate wasn't really a victim, she lived there willingly and could have left anytime but didn't."

It would be presented as the former for certain, but would likely lead to the latter interpretation whether or not Jeanette's attorney's actively insinuated it.  The main purpose for using the information is to poke holes in the story Kate told about Jeanette.  She said that she looked out the basement window and locked eyes with Jeanette. (BTW, this was always a bad lie since it is incredibly unlikely for a person standing outside of a house to be at eye line with a basement window from within a close enough range to see clearly in unless they are crawling around on hands and knees.) If she wasn't in the basement, then her statement itself is false. 

I cannot speak for other states, but one of the California jury instructions says that if you believe a person is lying about one thing, you are entitled to believe they are lying about all of their testimony, or only that bit.  But in this instance, it is the accusation itself that contains the lie making the whole story seem untrue (which it appears it was - at least as to Jeanette).

31 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

I don't like that this is actually going to court; I was hoping the girls would talk beforehand and resolve all of this. I didn't even realize that defamation trials had juries! That all seems so dramatic for a show that's been mostly... not low-key, exactly, but more about confrontations between individuals, for the most part.  

Defamation cases have issues of fact.  Issues of fact are almost always issues for juries unless the parties elect to have a bench trial.  I agree, though, that It's unfortunate that its going that far.  If they use a realistic timeline, we may get some of the spring of 1994 and 1996.  Trials rarely occur within less than 6 or even 12 months of  initiation (service of process on the defendant). If so, we could see more of Jeanette's transformation.  However, at this point, while I'm curious about that, it seems besides the central conflict they need to resolve.  And with only 40+ minutes to resolve this, I don't think it would be a good use of time however curious I may be.

[meatball77]

I really like where they went with the kidnapping and didn't make it black and white.  I think it really shows the teen viewers what grooming is and how it looks and feels like the victim isn't being clearly abused.  Muchlike men who groom girls online and then pick them up and drive them to Florida.

[TattleTeeny]

Dude pretends to forget that she's a minor...even though he is pouring a stress-drink precisely because he's harboring a runaway minor.

Quote

Maybe this is her proof that Kate is lying about what happened to her? Because she knows the snow globe was in the living room, if it was Kate calling Jamie with the snow globe playing in the background that would mean that she was in the living room and therefore not trapped in the basement? Of course, that would force Jeanette to admit that she broke into Martin's house, but yeah. I don't know, I'm so confused. 

This is what I think. But I feel like it makes too much sense -- it seems almost too "bland" and not twisty enough for a TV show.

Edited June 9, 2021 by TattleTeeny

[BingeyKohan]

Knowing Kate spent so long 'above stairs' (to get all Downton Abbey) puts a different spin on Martin's 'this part will be over soon' line when Kate was below stairs (and drugged). I wonder if he knew from experience there was the part where they are there willingly. Then there's the part where they are not. Then there's the part where they give up. (not to be bleak) 

[Cheyanne11]

4 hours ago, RachelKM said:

I also don't think Kate locked eyes with or even thought she locked eyes with Jeanette that night. It seemed as if Jeanette, even when she stumbled, was facing away from the house once she ran and was focused on getting away.

Yeah, I think what happened is all those months Kate was locked in the basement gave her time to replay that scene in her head over and over and over again--especially after Martin told her that Jeanette was now dating Jaime.  Jeanette became someone external to blame for her situation. 

[gesundheit]

7 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

How is this “understandable “ at all? 

For the same reason that teenagers being groomed think they're the ones making the choices, teenagers watching might see her as a willing, consenting participant in the relationship even though she isn't.

[Chicken Wing]

17 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

For the same reason that teenagers being groomed think they're the ones making the choices, teenagers watching might see her as a willing, consenting participant in the relationship even though she isn't.

It was good that these scenes were interspersed with Kate’s therapist providing Cliffs Notes explanations for everything Kate was revealing/we were seeing — breaking down how this moment was Martin grooming her, this feeling was actually manipulated, this decision she thinks was her own was actually forced. I’m sure the younger audience gets the point of the overall story, but some of these scenes taken independently might not resonate with the appropriate understanding for more impressionable viewers who might miss some of the nuances of the predatory behavior. I hope the therapist explaining it all helps make things crystal clear.

[mandymax]

Did anyone else recognize the scrunchie looped over the bathtub faucet when Kate was singing "Beautiful Dreamer" in the shower and Martin was making his way into the bathroom before closing the doors?  I thought the scrunchie was still on Jeannette at that point.  Or maybe it was a different scrunchie, to show how comfortable and settled in Kate was in the house?

I tend to think that Jeannette recognized the music on the answering machine and bolted to get the snow globe from Mallory purely to save herself - if anyone else heard/recognized that music and noticed the snow globe out in the wild, they might put two and two together and realize that Jeannette had broken in and stolen it.  Or maybe she was afraid KATE would realize she'd stolen it and been able to fortify her "Jeannette saw me at the house and left me there" accusation.

I so hope there's a second season to this.  There are still so many blanks to be filled in, and one more episode isn't nearly enough time.

[gesundheit]

1 hour ago, RachelKM said:

It would be presented as the former for certain, but would likely lead to the latter interpretation whether or not Jeanette's attorney's actively insinuated it.  The main purpose for using the information is to poke holes in the story Kate told about Jeanette.  She said that she looked out the basement window and locked eyes with Jeanette. (BTW, this was always a bad lie since it is incredibly unlikely for a person standing outside of a house to be at eye line with a basement window from within a close enough range to see clearly in unless they are crawling around on hands and knees.) If she wasn't in the basement, then her statement itself is false. 

That's just it. There's no room for "just because she was upstairs doesn't mean she wasn't being held captive," because if she was upstairs her accusation itself is false. And proving the accusation is false will start to un-ruin Jeanette's life. It's not victim-blaming, it's proving a falsehood and exonerating her.  

I do wonder about the whole pathology of it, that maybe since he did lock her in captivity so quickly after that, that maybe Kate was holding on to hope that Jeanette had seen her and help was going to be on the way. And eventually convinced herself that she must have. Especially upon coming home and seeing that Jeanette had "filled her spot," the math in her head could just tell her that's why. I'm still not convinced it's malice. (On either part!)

48 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

Yeah, I think what happened is all those months Kate was locked in the basement gave her time to replay that scene in her head over and over and over again--especially after Martin told her that Jeanette was now dating Jaime.  Jeanette became someone external to blame for her situation. 

Exactly. Talked herself into the possibility of hope and found someone to blame when hope died.

Ultimately it seems to be a story of two girls telling falsehoods out of what they see as self-preservation that make things so much worse. This is why I wish the finale could give us small intimate scenes, finally between the two of them. They've rarely interacted in this show about the both of them, but after seeing this episode and how well-done it was, I want the girls to get those one-on-one scenes. The trial/media stuff next week has me with low hopes. 

[gesundheit]

1 hour ago, Chicken Wing said:

It was good that these scenes were interspersed with Kate’s therapist providing Cliffs Notes explanations for everything Kate was revealing/we were seeing — breaking down how this moment was Martin grooming her, this feeling was actually manipulated, this decision she thinks was her own was actually forced. I’m sure the younger audience gets the point of the overall story, but some of these scenes taken independently might not resonate with the appropriate understanding for more impressionable viewers who might miss some of the nuances of the predatory behavior. I hope the therapist explaining it all helps make things crystal clear.

I hope so, but sadly I already saw plenty of chatter last night that indicated otherwise.

[RachelKM]

11 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

That's just it. There's no room for "just because she was upstairs doesn't mean she wasn't being held captive," because if she was upstairs her accusation itself is false. And proving the accusation is false will start to un-ruin Jeanette's life. It's not victim-blaming, it's proving a falsehood and exonerating her.  

From a legal case perspective, it also removes the "honest misunderstanding" defense. Not to turn this into a Torts lesson, but one of the elements of a defamation case is proving that the person knew their statement was false (or, in some instances, was negligent in ascertaining its truth or falsity).  The fact that a major element of Kate's story is false cuts against her defending her self in the manner most of us have been, i.e. "maybe Kate looked out the window and thought Jeanette saw her."

Honestly, one thing that I always wondered about and was the first thing that indicated to me that some element of Kate's story, particularly as to Jeanette, was false was the necklace. Kate presented it as proof of her story.  But it never made sense.  Kate claimed that she saw Jeanette through the basement window (placing herself there to be consistent with the story that she was always in the basement).  However, that would mean that Jeanette would be outside when Kate saw her.  So, how would Kate have acquired the necklace from outside? I'm sure Kate in her mind thought it was dead proof that Jeanette was there. 

Many people were speculating that maybe Jeanette broke in again (she did) and dropped it (again, yes).  But even if Jeanette had been inside the house, without being in the basement, there would be no logical way that Kate would have necklace unless Jeanette was inside the basement. Up until now, I was thinking maybe Martin found it and gave it to her as proof someone came by, knew she was there, and didn't care. But either way, the necklace did not work as corroboration of Kate's version of how Jeanette might have seen her at least not without some fanciful extra lying. 

16 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

I hope so, but sadly I already saw plenty of chatter last night that indicated otherwise.

Oh, yikes.  I don't want to see this. I may avoid twitter today.

[tennisgurl]

I suspected that Kate was possibly "playing house" with Martin for a few days before he locked her in the basement, but I really didn't expect that she was wandering around the house as a "couple" with Martin for several months before she tried to leave so he locked her up. The whole episode was really hard to watch, it was so clear that Kate was being abused and manipulated by this creepy older man even if Kate couldn't see it. Kate was just so desperate for someone to listen to, someone who sees her as her own person, that she clung to this adult who seemingly listened to her and treated her like an adult, then was young enough to get so wrapped up in this star crossed lovers story until it was too late. It was so obvious that he was grooming her since the first time they met and while he never planned for Kate to actually come into his house and want to stay, he clearly saw how he could use the situation to his advantage. The two actors seriously killed it, and while Olivia Holt was as amazing as ever, big kudos to the actor playing Martin. Playing such a monster cant be easy, especially without going too over the top with his villainy, but he is giving a truly skin crawling experience. He seems like such a pleasant mild mannered sort of guy, but you can see his manipulative streak peaking out and he can turn instantly from amiable to scary in a second. 

Its clear that Kate was a victim of a predatory adult from the moment he zeroed in on her, but I can see why she is hiding all of this. People really will probably blame her for going to his house willingly and staying there for so long when she had opportunities to escape, especially in the defamation trail, even if this is clearly all on Martin and not on the teenager he manipulated and abused. It also does cast doubt on Kate's story for the public, Jeanette's lawyer will clearly spin this into "if Kate lied about that, what else is she lying about?" or even cast doubts on if Kate was ever actually kidnapped at all. I am still not sure if Kate really does think she saw Jeanette or not, I have always assumed she really thought she saw her but either she really saw someone else or was hallucinating, but this makes me wonder if she just wished so badly that Jeanette told someone that she saw someone at Martin's that her traumatized mind that invented a story where Jeanette saw her. It seems like Jeanette very much did not see her, she just heard a creak and took off, but its possible that in her own internalized guilt she created a new bad guy in this scenario because she still had these complicated feelings about Martin and blamed herself for not escaping when she had the chance, so Jeanette became the person she decided to blame. Oh Kate, if only she had stayed at her house for a minute longer and seen her parents start to cry, she might have gone inside and never would have been locked up in that basement. 

Interesting that the Jeanette we saw at Christmas is a sort of in between version between her nerdy self and her cool kid self. She wasn't wearing her glasses and while her hair was still curly it was more wavy and styled then the mountain of untamed curls she has in 1993. Its not like Kate could have even glimpsed her enough to make the leap that Jeanette stole her life. 

Joy breaking down during Christmas Eve actually managed to make me feel sorry for her for a second. I am sure that wont last long though. 

[TattleTeeny]

Not that this has anything to do with anything, but that may be the stupidest necklace I have ever seen in my life. Is it "talking" to the wearer or a person looking at the wearer? Did Mallory pick it out in an "ironic" way?

[Black Knight]

Whoa, Kate is deliberately lying about Jeanette. I did not expect that. I see now that 1) I didn't want to believe it, even though it always bothered me that Kate waited to tell the cops about Jeanette and I knew that needed an explanation 2) I was so hung up on how the motive, if she was lying, seemed to be jealousy about Jamie, a guy she wasn't even really into.

But, seeing those first months in Martin's house, how much she grew to miss normal life, I see now that it wasn't about Jamie, even though the show was clever with that misdirect (by having her tell Jamie first, and then later going to the cops after she saw Jamie kissing Jeanette). It was about a normal life, period. She missed her old life while in Martin's house, she blamed herself for going there and for staying, and she has a ton of anger at him for the way he took advantage and groomed her and finally imprisoned her, but he's dead, so she can't take it out on him. And so she targeted her displaced anger at this girl who had a normal life, a girl she hardly knew and had no bond with, so there wasn't emotional affection getting in the way as it would with one of her actual friends.

It's massively fucked up on Kate's part; I do understand that Martin massively fucked her up. But man, poor Jeanette. Kate's lies destroyed her life and broke up her family. Kate will have to do some serious owning up and repentance. The thing that is especially difficult for me is that this isn't something Kate did once, but three times. First she told Jamie, and I guess other friends and family as well, because that got all over town, so Jeanette lost her boyfriend and most of her friends and became a town pariah. But that wasn't enough; Kate then went to the cops and filed a false police report, trying to get Jeanette arrested and sent to jail. And when that failed, she still couldn't let it go; she went on national TV with her lies so that even if Jeanette left town, this would follow her around everywhere, for life. This is not lashing out at Jeanette once; this is not telling an initial lie and then seeing it escalate way out of her control. She lied three times, and she escalated it herself, twice. It only escalated out of her control at the point Jeanette filed the lawsuit and Kate realized her parents might lose all their money - but not because of Jeanette, because of her and her lies.

So that's why Jeanette wants the snowglobe, because if Kate's fingerprints are on it, it would show that she was upstairs at some point during the Christmas holidays. Mallory will probably start putting the pieces together. Will she give the snowglobe to Jeanette to use in court, or will she confront Kate and try to convince her to come clean? Might she actually toss the snowglobe to protect Kate? It all comes down to her, apparently.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

So that's why Jeanette wants the snowglobe, because if Kate's fingerprints are on it, it would show that she was upstairs at some point during the Christmas holidays. 

But how would anyone other than Jeanette and Kate know that the snowglobe had been upstairs?

[Spartan Girl]

@Black Knight I’m still not sure if Kate is deliberately lying, the circumstances are still murky. And like I said before, I don’t think that was the last time Jeanette broke into the house. We’ll have to see.

The blame for breaking up Jeanette’s family is NOT on Kate, regardless of what the truth is. Jeanette told plenty of lies that caused Cindy to lose faith in her, and Greg didn’t wait long after the separation to hook up with Angela.

[Chicken Wing]

Another thing that we still don't know that may or may not come up in the end and may or may not be important: I don't think we know how Martin ultimately got caught, how the police wound up descending on his house and rescuing Kate.

[RachelKM]

36 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

@Black Knight I’m still not sure if Kate is deliberately lying, the circumstances are still murky. And like I said before, I don’t think that was the last time Jeanette broke into the house. We’ll have to see.

The blame for breaking up Jeanette’s family is NOT on Kate, regardless of what the truth is. Jeanette told plenty of lies that caused Cindy to lose faith in her, and Greg didn’t wait long after the separation to hook up with Angela.

I very much doubt that Jeanette will break in again (not counting the time in 1995).  It looks as though she didn't break in between being caught by Tennille's mom and Christmas Eve and certainly not in the four months Kate was living in the house before being locked in the basement.  Kate was always there and would have seen or heard her.  

We only have one more episode left.  It would be an odd thing to spend time on unless it was to have Jeanette actually see Kate and that, at this point, would be a gross bait and switch.  1) Kate said Jeanette saw her in or around December and having the necklace was connected, 2) Jeanette made an obvious connection to a specific instance of being in Martin's house based on Kate's call to Jamie, and 3) we were given this instance which completely matches with the two prior clues. Adding a new scenario after appearing to resolve the issue would feel cheap and like tonight's episode was an unnecessary mislead.  Not saying it can't happen.  But it offends all of my film major sensibilities. 

As for the what ifs regarding Jeanette's family, I think it's safe to say the lie was a major inciting factor.  Yes Jeanette was acting out some.  But honestly, there is not much reason to think the lies would have surfaced but for the investigation and Jeanette was not such a mess of a kid, even with the lies and risk taking, to think it would have destroyed her family.  Heck, she was living her most socially successful life before Kate accused her of knowing Kate was with Martin. And the pressures of becoming a pariah definitely effected the whole family. Even if it didn't cause all of the problems and/or fissures in Greg and Cindy's* marriage, it definitely exerted pressures on those issues and likely resulted in the breakup.  Likewise, Greg lost his job and the whole family suffered the stigma.  Even healthy relationships cannot withstand that much stress. Would Greg and Cindy have split? Possibly.  Would it have happened then?  Likely not.

And, even if the marriage breakup wasn't the result of the lie, the Turners suffered greatly from the fall out. 

*Literally just realized they both share names with Bradys. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by RachelKM