S05.E16: A Chance at a Happy Ending

[paulvdb]

Quote

The end is nigh! Lucifer, Chloe, Maze and Amenadiel prepare for battle with Michael and his not-so-angelic army of supporters.

 

[BabySpinach]

I'll need some time to stew after binging all 8 eps at once, but I think my overall impression is a positive one. A LOT of ground was covered this season. Lucifer wanting to become God was not a direction I saw coming, but I think I liked it. It led to reconciliation with Dad, then Dad with Mum, and showed us that Lucifer has come such a long way that he is now worthy of the mantle of new God.

But Lucifer feeling that he wasn't capable of love, and that he wasn't worthy of Chloe, felt contrived. I didn't like him putting her back on that pedestal after we saw their dynamic mature in season 4. Their relationship drama was really wearing thin... at least this finale will shake things up for them moving forward. 

Like I feared, Maze and Luci got yet another clean slate and offscreen reconciliation. At this point, that's just what their dynamic is, I guess. She scapegoats and tries to kill him out of misdirected anger, he forgives her unconditionally. It's unsatisfying, but I'm also glad she seems done with her backstabbing ways for good. Fingers crossed.

And say what you want, but at least this finale fight was miles better than the Michael/Lucifer mid-air equivalent in Supernatural. The flight and wings actually looked pretty good, and there was only one shot where I felt the CGI was distracting. Oversaturated color grading, though.

The pacing did feel a bit off, too. The two episodes back-to-back focused on Dan then Linda were pretty slow for me, and I just wanted them to get back to the celestial stuff. Then like a hundred things got crammed into the final episode and it was all pretty chaotic. Chloe dies, then gets brought back, Lucifer dies, then comes back, all within like five minutes! 

I'm glad we'll be getting another season. Ending the show on Lucifer becoming God without exploring it at all would have been pretty unsatisfying. And why is it that we still haven't learned why Hell doesn't need a warden anymore???

[ApathyMonger]

I'm assuming the big open air stadium with everyone spaced out was a pandemic decision; It worked well enough, but I wonder what the original plan for the episode was.

I'm glad we're getting another season, and possibly one without the procedural aspect of the show? If so, I hope they still find a way to keep Ella around.

[pootlus]

9 hours ago, BabySpinach said:

The pacing did feel a bit off, too. The two episodes back-to-back focused on Dan then Linda were pretty slow for me, and I just wanted them to get back to the celestial stuff. Then like a hundred things got crammed into the final episode and it was all pretty chaotic. Chloe dies, then gets brought back, Lucifer dies, then comes back, all within like five minutes! 

Yes and no, IMO.  A little Michael goes a long way - he's profoundly irritating if on screen for more than a minute or two, and I'm glad Dan and Linda had some much-needed focus.

So much to take in.  Mr Said-Out-Bitch escaping from Hell means that Dan can make it to Heaven too, which I'm betting is a focus of next season.  I was hoping to see Father Frank, maybe we'll see him in Heaven next season.  Glad that Chloe immediately had a catch-up with her dad.  Strongly implied that people 'forget' - as going by her confusion - presumably to ease the pain of worrying about those they've left behind.

Eve's triumphant smirk when Lucifer was revealed to be God was funny.  Chloe's pained look of concern was less so - clearly she's worried about how Lucifer is going to balance being God and being her - I guess now fiancé? - Lucifer put his ring on a very specific finger.  My little shipper heart has pretty much melted down.

Chloe's beating the crap out of Michael was SO SO satisfying.  Finally someone punches the smirk off his face and it's rightfully her after all the pain he's caused her and Trixie.

Going to have to do a lot of rewatches.

Edit: and Ella STILL doesn't know! They have to have taken that out of the original ending.  Surely they wouldn't have ended the show with her in the dark.

Edited May 29, 2021 by pootlus

[Gigi43]

Yeah, I too didn't love Lucifer's quest to be worthy of Chloe appealing. She rejected him in season 4. I did like his motivation was also wanting to 'win the election' and then had the realization it was a war and he had to make sure someone was running things the right way. 

 

I hate opening credits spoiling things. Charlene Yi's name appeared but she wasn't in the army so I had actually hoped we'd get her seeing Ella and I was excited for the possibility of Ella realizing she's literally around Angel's all the time. But, credits to Charlene and Tom Ellis "Lou" was a quick moment but yet the two actors made it memorable. Lucifer's realization was heartbreaking and I'm not even a shipper (I do love Chloe/Lucifer as partners... maybe this is just a thing with me as I'm also currently complaining about Law and Order every week trying to convince us Benson/Stabler have romantic prospects.) 

 

I figured they wouldn't leave Trixie an orphan, and Chloe died with a lot of time left in the episode (the writers never revealed what the original ending was from what I've seen, just they were given enough time to transition into a 6th season, was Chloe originally supposed to die?) I would go to war over leaving Trixie an orphan in two episodes (stupid of Chloe to be willing to fight and risk that option with a child grieving one parent already.)

 

Chloe always did like to shoot people going back to s1. Having her bullets made out of the melted blade was cool. So was her beating the shit out of Michael. Loved Eve joining the fight. They really went the complete opposite direction of the old girlfriend trope. Eve is awesome and hopefully she and Maze will work their shit out. I noticed Maze knelt this time, where as she didn't when he went full devil she did not. Chloe didn't kneel. Is Maze a part of God's army now? Along with the demons she brought with her? 

 

I love Mr. Said Out Bitch in heaven! Follow his lead, Daniel!  

 

I'll probably have more thoughts another day. Problem with binge watching is some things blend in my mind. This was a strong back 8 and I'm looking forward to seeing where Luci is God goes; I believe there's 10 episodes in the final s6.

[pootlus]

Oh and the MC Hammer bit - how could I forget that?  Hilariously awkward in the middle of a fairly serious scene.

[Peace 47]

Wow.  Wow wow wow wow.  This show has always done music well, and that Klergy song playing as everyone, led by Amenadiel (love his tight bond with Lucifer so, so much!) took the knee, was very powerful.  Amenadiel’s knowing smile as he kneeled was wonderful.

I echo Chloe’s question of “How?” when Lucifer returned from Heaven.  I did not think that Lucifer’s banishment still would exist since he had made amends with God, so I think his feeling “not well” when he got up there and his fiery explosion in Heaven was because he was being imbued with the power of God, not because he was subject to banishment and actually dying.  But how did he get imbued?  Selfless sacrifice?

14 hours ago, ApathyMonger said:

I’m assuming the big open air stadium with everyone spaced out was a pandemic decision; It worked well enough, but I wonder what the original plan for the episode was.

The angels and demons (and Eve!) were certainly nicely socially distanced on the stairs of the Coliseum!  There is a Variety article with the showrunners that says they did originally plan for more people in the battle before they had to scale it back and the Coliseum would, in normal times, not be a filming location option for them.  They were going to be at Mt. Wilson Observatory.  (That article is long and I have not read the whole thing yet, but they do allude to some S6 points, so be advised of potential spoilers.)

19 hours ago, BabySpinach said:

The pacing did feel a bit off, too. The two episodes back-to-back focused on Dan then Linda were pretty slow for me, and I just wanted them to get back to the celestial stuff. Then like a hundred things got crammed into the final episode and it was all pretty chaotic. Chloe dies, then gets brought back, Lucifer dies, then comes back, all within like five minutes!

I say this with all the love in the world for the show and as someone who had a great time binging Season 5B, but the pacing for this episode, given what they wanted to cover, was a mess!  I would have been so mad if this was the series finale because that article linked above says that the ending here with Lucifer-becoming-God was originally Act 5 of the story, and getting season 6 just meant that the “final wrap up” that they were going to do for the characters in Act 6 here is now spread out over an entire season 6.  That is so rushed.  I’m sure some will disagree, but Lucifer’s moment with Azrael needed just a few seconds more, and then Chloe dying, and Lucifer freaking out and going to Heaven, needed way, way more time in the episode.  Lucifer and Chloe should have had a longer and deeper conversation in Heaven, at least.

I really liked how Lucifer’s “room” in Heaven where he crash landed was desolate and gray (where Chloe’s was warm and sunny).  There’s no peace for Lucifer in Heaven with Chloe being taken before her time, and him being separated from her.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Peace 47

[Gigi43]

So I guess in heaven you kinda forget the people you love? Didn't Amenadiel once tell Chloe her dad was proud, implying he knew she was a cop and all? Was he just being polite? Chloe seemed to have forgotten she'd left Trixie until Lucifer got there.

[aprilbabe]

37 minutes ago, Gigi43 said:

So I guess in heaven you kinda forget the people you love? Didn't Amenadiel once tell Chloe her dad was proud, implying he knew she was a cop and all? Was he just being polite? Chloe seemed to have forgotten she'd left Trixie until Lucifer got there.

I don't think you forget people. Heaven is supposed to be peaceful and happy. So I am guessing that heaven just focuses your attention on what you have there instead of what you left behind. Because if you are grieving, missing and aching for the life you left behind, how is it heaven? It's just more suffering. I imagine it's just not something you dwell on unless someone directly brings it to you attention.

[cambridgeguy]

2 hours ago, aprilbabe said:

I don't think you forget people. Heaven is supposed to be peaceful and happy. So I am guessing that heaven just focuses your attention on what you have there instead of what you left behind. Because if you are grieving, missing and aching for the life you left behind, how is it heaven? It's just more suffering. I imagine it's just not something you dwell on unless someone directly brings it to you attention.

Plus you probably get to mostly forget your actual death if it's a bad one.  Hey dad, you think you had it bad when you were shot?  Well, I was impaled by a big staff!

Speaking of heaven, it looks like having someone give you a helpful nudge can get you a one way ticket there from hell, so I'd expect Lucifer or Amenadiel to pop on down there even if they're not allowed to directly bring him up to heaven.

[owenthurman]

11 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

the ending here with Lucifer-becoming-God was originally Act 5 of the story, and getting season 6 just meant that the “final wrap up” that they were going to do for the characters in Act 6 here is now spread out over an entire season 6.  

I am confused. You speak as if we’re supposed to understand what typically happens in Act 5 and 6? But Shakespeare’s plays had five acts, and most modern storytelling follows a three-act structure…. What is Act 6, in your usage?

[ApathyMonger]

44 minutes ago, owenthurman said:

I am confused. You speak as if we’re supposed to understand what typically happens in Act 5 and 6? But Shakespeare’s plays had five acts, and most modern storytelling follows a three-act structure…. What is Act 6, in your usage?

I think it's the stuff that usually comes at the end of the episodes, once the MOTW is wrapped up, pushing the season-long story forward.

[StarBrand]

Only Maze can say a line like "I don't care if you die", and make it sound romantic.

I agree with Eve, that Maze in battle mode is VERY sexy...

Edited May 30, 2021 by StarBrand

[StarBrand]

12 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

So I guess in heaven you kinda forget the people you love? Didn't Amenadiel once tell Chloe her dad was proud, implying he knew she was a cop and all? Was he just being polite? Chloe seemed to have forgotten she'd left Trixie until Lucifer got there.

I'm thinking that perhaps her Dad was thinking that he was proud of the woman his daughter became-that was a source of happiness, not regret.

Chloe being blissfully ignorant was the product of her having making peace with Dan being gone. She said as much to Lucifer before she "died".  Had she felt regret about Dan, or Trixie, she would have been tortured with it forever in hell, which was Micheal's plan. Heaven is for people who are at peace.

Or maybe I'm just talking out of my arse...

Edited May 30, 2021 by StarBrand

[Peace 47]

4 hours ago, owenthurman said:

I am confused. You speak as if we’re supposed to understand what typically happens in Act 5 and 6? But Shakespeare’s plays had five acts, and most modern storytelling follows a three-act structure…. What is Act 6, in your usage?

 

4 hours ago, ApathyMonger said:

I think it's the stuff that usually comes at the end of the episodes, once the MOTW is wrapped up, pushing the season-long story forward.

Yes, it’s not my term, but what the Lucifer showrunners used in the article linked in my prior post, and it’s apparently a 2000s-ish network TV model to account for commercials in an hour-long drama.  This site says that Act 5 is trying a long shot and Act 6 is living in a new situation, and they both fall under the traditional Act 3, “Resolution.”

Michael had a pretty decent plan at the end here.  Make Chloe feel guilty about something awful, get her dead, and Lucifer would beeline straight back to Hell to be with her.  That hangs together well.

Also, I guess that I was wrong about my upthread speculation regarding Lucifer’s fiery crackling appearance in Heaven.  I saw on another site that the showrunners said that he was experiencing the physical impacts of banishment until he put the ring on Chloe’s finger, when the selfless sacrifice reversed it.  Kind of a dick move of God not to lift the “banishment curse” before peacing out, haha.  But I get it, Lucifer had to prove himself worthy of being there on his own if he really wanted to become God (to prevent a reprehensible angel like Michael from taking over).
 

Edited May 30, 2021 by Peace 47

[pootlus]

23 minutes ago, Peace 47 said:

But I get it, Lucifer had to prove himself worthy of being there on his own if he really wanted to become God (to prevent a reprehensible angel like Michael from taking over).

It reminds me a bit of the ending of the first Thor movie, when Thor only gets his powers (and Mjolnir) back when he has proven himself willing to sacrifice his own life in the service of others.  Michael would never in a million years contemplate that.

[AnimeMania]

I thought this episode was "Underwhelming?". Lucifer spent all that time talking about how precious life is and there should be no killing. I was waiting for Lucifer to bring the other angels to his side by informing the angels that Michael killed the angel Remi, but noooo, Chloe "Dunt Hunts" two angels out of the sky, then everybody starts hacking each other to bits. So much for the no killing rule. The battle was trash and Lucifer "lied" when he said he and Michael would battle to the death. And it seemed dishonorable that Chloe interfered in the battle between the two angel brothers. Of course you can kill all the angels you want, but the no killing rule only applies to Michael. The battle with Dan's killers was 10x better than this war, so I know they could have done better.

It would have been better if Amenadiel had become the new "God" since he now knows what it is like to love someone as a lover, a friend and a father. He did an excellent job with his advice to Ella and he actually takes the time to listen to what people are saying.

[DEL901]

“Oh my me!”  

[BabySpinach]

The way that Lucifer's journey to godhood unfolded was definitely the aspect of 5B that intrigued and surprised me the most.

When he first gets the idea in 5.13, it's framed as yet another of his ridiculous schemes that seems destined to be proven wrong a la season 3. But then 5.14 onwards take a surprisingly serious approach to him becoming God, and he's supported by those around him rather than ridiculed and made to look completely stupid for even considering it. We've got Amenadiel in his corner, Chloe with reservations not about Lucifer's worthiness but about what it would mean for their relationship, Maze with her request, and even Dan is okay with it. Lucifer doesn't focus on the aquarium case as he usually would, but he still cares and contributes enough so that his becoming God isn't framed as this terrible thing that would wreck the status quo and therefore be unacceptable. His multi-tasking isn't just about him being a frivolous dick for no reason, but also a work-life balance issue. Chloe then acknowledges that this is objectively more important than Lucifer helping her out with crimes, and decides to go all-in to support him.

And of course it's stated multiple times that Lucifer is technically doing this for the wrong reasons, but this doesn't lead to him giving up upon this realization. Instead, his motivation being love and the desire to prove himself worthy of it is actually framed as a strength, or at the very least not the worst motivation one could have. And then he does find an additional reason: to fix a broken system and give Dan (and everyone else) a chance at salvation. So Lucifer's goal to become God is no longer frivolous or misguided at all, which I honestly didn't see coming after the way it was initially set up. But I like that Lucifer's hatred of the unjust was reintroduced to serve as a major motivator. 

We all know that Amenadiel is a lot more tactful and considerate than Lucifer (with the occasional regression to his former angelic pompousness), but I think the show has consistently established that he is a follower, not a leader. He naturally defers to and seeks out authority figures, and gravitates far more toward following orders than giving them. Living a meaningful existence of simplicity and humility on his own terms after eons of being God's Perfect Soldier, and supporting the ascension of the brother he once saw as beneath him, is a fitting conclusion to his character arc IMO. 

As for how Lucifer actually became God, the most likely answer is that he self-actualized it. Like Chloe lampshaded earlier in the episode when she dared him to magically feel worthy, his self-sacrifice to bring Chloe back was what finally made it click. Him feeling worthy of her love, and being able to express it, was equivalent to him feeling worthy of godhood. He did have other good reasons to want to be God, but this was the key to making it happen. And while that does put Chloe on a pretty damn high pedestal, this explanation is the most consistent with the established story/themes of 5B.

Edited May 30, 2021 by BabySpinach

[AnimeMania]

Amenadiel inspired an entire nunnery to praise God without even trying, Lucifer only inspired religious figures to attempt to assassinate him.

[BabySpinach]

On 5/30/2021 at 1:30 PM, AnimeMania said:

Amenadiel inspired an entire nunnery to praise God without even trying, Lucifer only inspired religious figures to attempt to assassinate him.

Well yeah, because Lucifer is the ultimate misunderstood scapegoat. That's a pretty important aspect of his story.

And unless the argument is that the praise/worship of earthly religious figures actually matters in any tangible way, which we haven't seen to be the case, I don't see its relevance to the question of whether Lucifer or Amenadiel are better suited for the position of God. And the only religious figure who tried to assassinate Lucifer was a murderous, lying zealot, so I don't see how that'd reflect poorly on the former. Not to mention Father Frank took a shine to him, too.

Edited June 5, 2021 by BabySpinach

[FormerMod-a1]

I don't usually cry at TV or movies, in general, it's just not in my nature for whatever reason.  I cried several times these last few episodes.  Not outright sobbing or anything, but still.  Even though I've loved this show from the get go, and even through the "lesser" seasons I never would have thought it would bring me to tears like this.  The acting is just so good, and they all brought their A game. 

I figured Luci going to heaven to save Chloe even at his own expense would prove his worthiness and trigger godhood.  Before that, I loved when Michael tried to invoke his godhood and nothing happened. 

[Pickwick71]

Did I imagine the references to The Good Place?  Lucifer mentions the system that determines who goes to heaven and hell isn’t working anymore.  Lee says “fork” in heaven.  Also, he makes it to heaven by learning and improving in hell.

[Zoe]

On 5/30/2021 at 12:57 AM, AnimeMania said:

I thought this episode was "Underwhelming?". Lucifer spent all that time talking about how precious life is and there should be no killing. I was waiting for Lucifer to bring the other angels to his side by informing the angels that Michael killed the angel Remi, but noooo, Chloe "Dunt Hunts" two angels out of the sky, then everybody starts hacking each other to bits. So much for the no killing rule. The battle was trash and Lucifer "lied" when he said he and Michael would battle to the death. And it seemed dishonorable that Chloe interfered in the battle between the two angel brothers. Of course you can kill all the angels you want, but the no killing rule only applies to Michael. The battle with Dan's killers was 10x better than this war, so I know they could have done better.

It would have been better if Amenadiel had become the new "God" since he now knows what it is like to love someone as a lover, a friend and a father. He did an excellent job with his advice to Ella and he actually takes the time to listen to what people are saying.

None of the angels died though. 

[pootlus]

10 hours ago, Zoe said:

None of the angels died though. 

Apart from poor Remiel, obviously.

Gabriel at least was clearly shown at the end during the kneeling scene, she seemed fine.

[MissL]

I’ll admit I’ve skipped a few seasons because I was never a fan of the Lucifer/Chloe romance and gave up when I realized that’s the direction they were going and I’ve only watched the last two episodes but I’m confused. What happens when an Angel dies? They just cease to exist? No silver city? 
 

Actually skipping a few seasons made a lot of this really confusing. 

[Zoe]

1 hour ago, MissL said:

I’ll admit I’ve skipped a few seasons because I was never a fan of the Lucifer/Chloe romance and gave up when I realized that’s the direction they were going and I’ve only watched the last two episodes but I’m confused. What happens when an Angel dies? They just cease to exist? No silver city? 
 

Actually skipping a few seasons made a lot of this really confusing. 

Die by Azreal's blade: wiped from existence. Die by a regular blade: soul goes to heaven or hell. 

[MaggieG]

On 5/28/2021 at 11:05 PM, pootlus said:

Oh and the MC Hammer bit - how could I forget that?  Hilariously awkward in the middle of a fairly serious scene.

This was so funny! Especially when they tried convincing Michael and the other angels it was Dad making them dance again.

I also laughed at Lucifer making fun of Michael's outfit. 

[AnimeMania]

Lucifer EPs on How the Series Originally Ended, Sending

to Hell, the New God's Season 6 Struggle and More

I seems they had filmed all the episodes except for Episode 16 before Covid and the announcement that the series would be renewed for a sixth season.  

The rest of the article contains some spoilers for Season 6.

I will leave you with this picture of Chloe twerking on Lucifer.

[AnimeMania]

Two behind the scenes videos of Lucifer and Maze's big fight scene.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPgGB3nsTeW/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=32c9ca31-a8c5-4470-b4c2-ca31931fdb87

 

[Anela]

I tend to lose patience when the actual supernatural beings take over the show, even when it's a show focused on a few supernatural beings. I wondered why they hadn't given the ring to Chloe, before attending that event. I would have been pissed if Trixie had been left an orphan. 

[yourmomiseasy]

On 5/29/2021 at 4:49 AM, Peace 47 said:

The angels and demons (and Eve!) were certainly nicely socially distanced on the stairs of the Coliseum!  There is a Variety article with the showrunners that says they did originally plan for more people in the battle before they had to scale it back and the Coliseum would, in normal times, not be a filming location option for them.  They were going to be at Mt. Wilson Observatory.  (That article is long and I have not read the whole thing yet, but they do allude to some S6 points, so be advised of potential spoilers.)

 

I wonder why the Coliseum normally wouldn't have been an option.  Tons of stuff films there and I think the pricing is actually quite reasonable.  Maybe it was during football season -- I'm not sure if they were allowing filming Aug-Dec while the stadium was hosting both USC and the Rams, as the schedule was pretty booked.

[thuganomics85]

Well, it actually happened: Lucifer "The Devil" Morningstar is God!

Thanks to Dan's (sniff!) departure, I figured Chloe wasn't going to be dead for good because I couldn't see them killing off another regular like that (especially the second-billed star), but it was still emotional, and even though I'm not crazy about the Lucifer/Chloe pair, I thought it felt earned for Lucifer to be willing to sacrifice himself to save her and finally say those three words.  And that unselfish act will be enough to save him as well and grant him God-status.  It's funny: currently on The Flash right now, the show has been frustrating with me how everything seems to get fixed with "the power of love", but on this show, I think it succeeds since the groundwork is usually there to show that it's not just talk, but action as well.

Also not surprised that Michael was spared; even though he did lose his wings at least; but as fun as it was seeing Tom Ellis play another, more antagonistic role, I'm not sure I will care about any possible storyline about him earning his "second chance."  I'm fine with really never seeing him again, but I suspect that won't be the case.

Yay to Maze moving forward with Eve and wanting to be with her, even if the day will come she will die!  And we get to seem the saunter into battle together, complete with Eve wielding a shotgun and Maze wearing the most badass outfit yet (have I mentioned that Lesley-Ann Brandt was scorching this season?!  I mean, she is always on fire, but damn!)

RIP, Remiel.

I hope Ella eventually gets brought into the fold before the show is done.

Love Linda, but I hope her need to monitor Charlie's falling isn't a sign that we have a future helicopter parent in the making.

Garner!  And I chose to believe him saying fork instead of fuck was a reference/shoutout to The Good Place.

All in all, I don't think this season as a whole was quite as good as last season/the first Netflix season, but I still thought it was pretty good and I'm glad we're at least getting another one.  I am curious to see how Lucifer being God will change things (will he still be involved in any police/case of the week stuff?), but I'm optimistic for now.  And the cast continues to fire on all cylinders and I can't wait to see more of them (although I'll miss Kevin Alejandro going forward.)  Ironically, this show seems to be setting a prime example of taking advantage of it's own "second chance", after the less than stellar third season and getting canceled by FOX.  Hope they keep it up!

[Anela]

It reminded me a bit, of the end of the movie "Bedazzled".

[Peace 47]

16 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Lucifer EPs on How the Series Originally Ended, Sending

  Reveal spoiler

to Hell, the New God's Season 6 Struggle and More

I seems they had filmed all the episodes except for Episode 16 before Covid and the announcement that the series would be renewed for a sixth season.  

The rest of the article contains some spoilers for Season 6.

I will leave you with this picture of Chloe twerking on Lucifer.

Thanks for posting that article:  it is interesting to read the showrunners’ thoughts on the finale.  It was a little odd to me that one of the showrunners said this about Lucifer using the last of the immortality contained in his ring to restore Chloe’s life:

Quote

ILDY | Making the ultimate sacrifice of putting somebody before himself, so completely and entirely, was something was Lucifer had never done in his life before.

My first thought was:  hasn’t Lucifer done that almost every season?  In S4, he returned to Hell for what he thought was all eternity to protect Charlie and Chloe (it was certainly the last place in the universe he wanted to be).  In S1, he was shot, killed and sure he was going to have to go back to Hell, and the only thing he asked of God was that God save Chloe.  In S2, he actually did die intentionally with the sole goal of going to Hell to save Chloe.  Those are pretty selfless acts.  I mean, I guess the distinction could be drawn that this time, he thought that he would be wiped from existence, as opposed to being stuck in Hell.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Peace 47

[tennisgurl]

Oh my Me Indeed. What a wild ride 5B was, on the whole I thought it was really good with this episode as a great season finale, although I am really glad that we're getting another season. Lucifer as the new God is going to be really interesting to explore, it would suck not to ever get the chance to see what that looks like. There was a whole lot that happened really quickly, with Chloe and Lucifer both dying and coming back again just in the last fifteen minutes or so, that's how packed this whole episode was. 

I wasn't sure how "Lucifer wants to be God" story would go, but I actually like where they went with it. Lucifer has always found the whole cosmic system to be unfair, he has always considered his role as king of Hell to be about justice and not torture, so it makes total sense that he would end up deciding that he wants to be God so that he can fix the system that he has always thought was broken. When his ambitions towards Godhood started it was because he wanted to prove that he was worthy of Chloe's love, which is romantic and certainly not the worst motivation for wanting power, but as even Chloe herself said, its not a really noble and true reason to what ultimate power. Its out of love, but also out of personal desire and not a desire to do good in the universe. That changed when Dan was murdered and sent to Hell though, then it all came together for Lucifer and his reason to become God. Wanting to become God for love is not a bad motivation, but wanting to become God to fix a clearly broken cosmic system where good people can still go to Hell because of their own guilt and terrible things happen to good people for no reason after his friends horrible death and damnation? That is a much better, more godly reason to want to take charge. Its still personal, the whole idea really become fully forged in his grief over Dan's death, but its also a part of him fully realizing how much he cares about seeing humans redeemed and creating a better universe after being exposed so much to humanity. It fits into Lucifer going from being a rather selfish person (fallen angel) when the show started to a more selfless person who will not only sacrifice himself for the people he loves, but is willing to fight to create a better universe where people like Dan can find redemption in the afterlife out of a belief in justice and compassion. I admit that I have never been a huge fan of Chloe/Lucifer, but they have grown on me this season, and the big sacrifice and Lucifer finally being able to tell her he loves her did feel earned, and it felt like real growth from both of them to be that open with each other. 

Seeing Mr. Said Out Bitch in Heaven was great, and it means that Dan can hopefully make it to heaven, which is I assume something that is going to happen next season. Please let that happen next season, Dan being stuck in Hell is just too depressing to contemplate, that cant be the end of him after all of this, especially now that Lucifer has the keys to the kingdom. This episode did have a real Good Place kind of vibe, including the Fork as substitute for Fuck, which had to be a deliberate shout out, and the whole idea of people Hell being cosmically broken so that good people end up being tormented unjustly. 

I could watch Chloe punch that smug smirk off of Michal all day on a loop, like the reverse of a Hell Loop. It does show growth that Lucifer gave his horrible brother a second chance, but that piece of crap deserved to at least have his wings shaved. 

It was a pretty intense episode, but they did add in a few welcome bits of comedy, like the MC Hammer bit. It went on just long enough to be funny without distracting from the drama. And then Michael expecting to get some kind of massive God upgrade, only to stand there with his arms waving around like an idiot. 

[Anela]

I forgot to add that I’d been wondering about the guy who turns up every season, and it was nice to see him in heaven, having taken lucifer’s advice.   

[DoctorAtomic]

On 5/28/2021 at 8:02 PM, pootlus said:

Chloe's beating the crap out of Michael was SO SO satisfying. 

I think it had to be her to put him down finally. Clipping the wings was the right call. 

On 5/28/2021 at 8:22 PM, Gigi43 said:

I love Mr. Said Out Bitch in heaven! Follow his lead, Daniel!

I think it's garbage Dan is actually in hell, but it's clear that he'll get (and should) redemption. 

On 5/29/2021 at 5:49 AM, Peace 47 said:

But how did he get imbued?  Selfless sacrifice?

I think that's a good as reason as any. I do think he burned up, but phoenix like - reborn. I don't think they need to over explain it. 

On 5/30/2021 at 7:05 PM, Pickwick71 said:

Did I imagine the references to The Good Place?  Lucifer mentions the system that determines who goes to heaven and hell isn’t working anymore.  Lee says “fork” in heaven.  Also, he makes it to heaven by learning and improving in hell.

I said as much in another thread, and hearing 'fork' kind of sealed that. 

Overall, I found it a bit silly, but I'll concede that narratively Lucifer becoming god through the means he did is consistent. I was surprised no one would have thought the vote would have to be unanimous. That's why I was hoping Chloe would have been voted god. Again, it makes sense they all voted for him at the end based on the events, but ok. 

I did say in another thread, I was hoping S6 would be about rebuilding, etc., after the 'war', which I am very pleased to see is likely the case. I'm sure there's a lot of drama to mine with Lucifer wanting to do what he thinks is legitimately right, but finding being god leaves your hands tied in a way. Like, he's not going to be able to eliminate pain, but fixing the rules so someone like Dan doesn't go to hell, should be interesting. Or whether he'll install Maze as warden of hell. 

I did like the Game of Thrones dig - what are you wearing? Is Winter coming?

The Hammer bit was amusing until frustrated Michael said, 'all right, stop', and unison - Hammer Time! Then it became brilliant. 

[roamyn]

13 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

did like the Game of Thrones dig - what are you wearing? Is Winter coming?

I actually did like his warrior outfit.

Somewhere Jensen Ackles & Mark Pellegrino are envious at the Michael/Lucifer fight.

 I had to take a few hours aft watching the last episode because my eyes needed clearing up.  Then Maze broke me again crying over the *NSYNC shirt.  
 

The way Amenadiel was looking at Linda toward the end makes me believe that they, too, are end game.  I sure hope so.  Even more than Lucifer/Chloe, I ship Amenadiel/Linda.  And Charlie needs a sibling his own age.  Perhaps a little girl named Danielle.

[pootlus]

7 minutes ago, roamyn said:

The way Amenadiel was looking at Linda toward the end makes me believe that they, too, are end game.  I sure hope so.  Even more than Lucifer/Chloe, I ship Amenadiel/Linda.  And Charlie needs a sibling his own age.  Perhaps a little girl named Danielle.

If Linda and Amenadiel do have a daughter, I hope they name her Remiel.

Remiel swallowed her (massive amounts of) pride to back Lucifer because it was the right thing to do, then put her entire existence on the line.

[DoctorAtomic]

If the rest of these celestials think they're going back to normal, they in for a rude awakening. It was galling to hear them call humans 'animals'. 

If anything, this 5b indicated the value of living on Earth, and I hope Lucifer institutes some kind of earth internship. 

 

[Peace 47]

4 hours ago, roamyn said:

I had to take a few hours aft watching the last episode because my eyes needed clearing up.  Then Maze broke me again crying over the *NSYNC shirt.  

I cried at that scene.  Lesley-Ann Brandt portrayed the grief so palpably:  I really felt the ache of grief when she broke down.  I think she is the actor on this show who has been most underserved by the writing, but she always delivers regardless.  And when I say underserved, it’s not that the writers don’t give her over-the-top moments of rage, grief, humor, etc., but just that Maze’s overall arc had been often times repetitive and/or frustrating, although this second half of Season 5 really felt like Maze broke free of that cycle, with the soul revelation, the romance, the reinforcement of friendships, etc.

4 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

If anything, this 5b indicated the value of living on Earth, and I hope Lucifer institutes some kind of earth internship.

I wonder if he will go one further and institute mortality for the angels.  It’s been a theme of season 5 in general that mortality is what makes people value their relationships.  Linda kind of emphasized it again this episode with her “‘tis better to have loved and lost” speech to Maze at Dan’s apartment.  Lucifer’s embrace of death to save Chloe was what made him able to express himself.  The angels (even Amenadiel in thinking that Charlie was disadvantaged by mortality) just don’t get it yet and are so cavalier about their relationships with each other and with humans, it makes me think that mortality might be coming for them all.

4 hours ago, pootlus said:

Remiel swallowed her (massive amounts of) pride to back Lucifer because it was the right thing to do, then put her entire existence on the line.

It’s a testament to the emotional attachments that the writers build between the audience and the characters on this show that I felt genuinely sad that this minor character did all that and unceremoniously got dead right away in this episode for all her troubles.  (I also felt bad for Lucifer and Chloe that they were grappling with Dan’s fate and then immediately Remy drops dead in front of them.)  I know Remy said in this block of episodes that she didn’t like Lucifer and was only backing him because of who the alternative was, but that didn’t entirely square for me in light of what Michael said in the first half of season 5, about how when Lucifer went back to Hell in Season 4 to save Charlie, Chloe and the rest of humanity, all the angels turned their opinions around on Lucifer and were acting so impressed with him.  Michael specifically mentioned that Remy really respected Lucifer’s actions.  Oh well.

[pootlus]

53 minutes ago, Peace 47 said:

Michael specifically mentioned that Remy really respected Lucifer’s actions.  Oh well.

I mean Michael could have been lying, it's not unheard of *wink*

But it's more likely that Remy just didn't want to admit to Lucifer that he had her respect, so she kept up the 'I don't like you in the slightest' front.

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't think the angels need to be mortal. It's the living on earth that's the key. Lucifer was able to show his worthiness for god for dying, but that's a separate issue. What miracles are in store if angels come and live among humans? 

I actually hope that Lucifer doesn't have the omni-this and omni-that. Or does, and gives it up because he realizes that was a mistake on dad's part. 

I mean, nothing really happened at the end to show Lucifer was god except everyone just kneeling. He might not have anything additional except people do what he says.

 

[Rambler]

So all the Angels were willing to obliterate Amenadiel and the Angel of Righteousness just to make the vote unanimous? And that wasn't even for sure going to make Michael the next God. I mean I can see where an Angel of Righteousness could rub some people the wrong way, but Amenadiel? Wow Angels suck. Although I did like the Angel that kept changing sides. Was she the Angel of Indecision? Maybe they can keep her around for comic relief next season.

Is there a Jesus Christ in this universe? I would think he would be a better choice to be the next God then those two Bozos.

Missed Opportunity Dept: They should have had the final battle at Angels Stadium, not the Coliseum.

[Zoe]

12 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I don't think the angels need to be mortal. It's the living on earth that's the key. Lucifer was able to show his worthiness for god for dying, but that's a separate issue. What miracles are in store if angels come and live among humans? 

The funny thing is we learned in this season that the other angels have been dabbling in Earth culture. They probably all suffer from superiority issues, but they're not inexperienced newbies like S1 Amenadiel. 

Lucifer even kept tabs on them and Gabriel had him on her spam mailing list!

Edited June 4, 2021 by Zoe

[Gigi43]

21 hours ago, Rambler said:

So all the Angels were willing to obliterate Amenadiel and the Angel of Righteousness just to make the vote unanimous? And that wasn't even for sure going to make Michael the next God. I mean I can see where an Angel of Righteousness could rub some people the wrong way, but Amenadiel? Wow Angels suck. Although I did like the Angel that kept changing sides. Was she the Angel of Indecision? Maybe they can keep her around for comic relief next season.

Is there a Jesus Christ in this universe? I would think he would be a better choice to be the next God then those two Bozos.

Missed Opportunity Dept: They should have had the final battle at Angels Stadium, not the Coliseum.

 

Well, season one Amenadiel was a dick, maybe they just don't know he took a turn for the adorable. 

 

We've seen Catholic Priests and Nuns on the show but I don't think they've ever mentioned Jesus.  

Edited June 5, 2021 by Gigi43

[DoctorAtomic]

I've been thinking about that. I'm not really a rewatcher, but I can't recall a Jesus mention. 

A quick search shows that Lucifer made a remark in s4e1, but that's it. 

Another quick search said that maybe TPTBs didn't include him as an actual character because they didn't want to make any specific religion 'legit'. I am assuming they meant if they introduced Jesus as the son of god. There's never been a reference to Mohammed iirc. 

A quick search of me says that season 6 is basically playing with house money, so throw everyone in there. If Lucifer is the new god, then all the rules are up for a rewrite. 

Jesus returns from walkabout in the outback, 'what just happened?' 

Edited June 4, 2021 by DoctorAtomic

[madmax]

On 6/1/2021 at 8:51 PM, Anela said:

 I wondered why they hadn't given the ring to Chloe, before attending that event. I would have been pissed if Trixie had been left an orphan. 

Me too!  If Lucifer didn't want her to fight, then give her something to make her immortal.  No, instead, here's a demon blade that isn't going to do much but irritate the angels once you take the time to smelt it into bullets.  

Lesley-Ann Brandt killed it this episode and most of the season.  Her tearing up at the tee shirt, then her anger when she thought Chloe had been killed.

The humor was still there, even in the midst of the drama.  I laughed my ass off at the MC Hammer bit.

I like the idea of making the angels work on earth, gain some insight into humanity.  Especially that dick angel that called humans animals.  And I really thought more of them would come to Lucifer's side, but Lucifer should have told them all that Michael killed Remy.  The only ones that knew were the dick angel and the indecisive angel.  "Mom never liked you." 

I thought the season was really good, with only a minor quibble or two.  

[Zoe]

47 minutes ago, madmax said:

And I really thought more of them would come to Lucifer's side, but Lucifer should have told them all that Michael killed Remy.  The only ones that knew were the dick angel and the indecisive angel.  "Mom never liked you." 

More might have known. I think they were afraid that Michael would have done the same to them.