Trials and Tribulations of Juicy and Tre...

[long beach lisa]

I think you mean kadooz.

Someone who reported to me -- a writer! -- actually wrote "kadooz" in a memo...and I didn't have the heart to correct her. But I do love that it's become the standard pronunciation and spelling LOL!

[WireWrap]

NO to bringing back Jackie and Caroline. They have zero relevance unless they interact with Dina (and even then only in small doses). But that'll never happen -- Dina wants nothing to do with them.

If they started filming again for next season in a couple weeks they could bring back everyone from this season -- even Jim, bc even without breaking any laws or overspending, he makes Juicy look good. We can all watch Tre go off to prison and then they can film Joe making arrangements for he and the kids to move in with one of his brothers. All Joe needs to do is come across humbled, show him lovingly interact with his daughters, smoke a couple cigars with Rosie, and cook a couple family dinners. And voilà -- there's a season!! Then Joe and Melissa can be shown interacting with Juicy and taking a bigger role in their niece's lives. Dina has a responsibility to be a very present role in Audriana's life and this can be filmed while she also navigates her life in NYC (no one gives a rip if she's there or living in Franklin Lakes). If Bravo puts this franchise on hiatus for a couple years then adiós and good luck bringing it back. They need to keep filming while it's still interesting and fresh instead of the phony garbage they usually push.

Dina did NOT take her role as Audriana's Godmother seriously before so I would not count on it now. After she left the show, she stopped talking to Teresa, entirely! She may have sent cards/gifts (so she now claims)  but she was NOT present in that child's life that had any real meaning. It was not until after Jac and Teresa had their fight on Jac's deck that Teresa/Dina renewed their friendship and it is NOT a deep friendship but a "party/surface" friendship. Even after that, they did not do much together, including gabbing on the phone until the indictments were handed down AND that was just before filming for this season began and they already knew Dina was returning to the show. So, unless Dina is filmed with Audriana, I doubt that she will have much personal contact with her or the other girls. JS

[beesknees]

The ones that stood out to me were:

1) Joe not knowing he is not a US citizen. I think he really is that dumb. And raised by dumb parents.

2) Joe and Teresa not disclosing the monthly rent checks they received from one of their properties, with TERESA endorsing and depositing the checks into her personal account. So much for Teresa not participating in this scheme.

 

Maybe this is just me but uh, how does one not know they are not a U.S. citizen.  I mean, could this even be possible?  I am ignorant regarding citizenship law(s), requirements, etc., however once Joe became old enough to work and draw a regular paycheck (assuming he has done this at least once in his life) wouldn't the fact that he wasn't a citizen come to light at that point when dealing with the HR (Human Resources) dept. at the company he was employed at? 

 

If you are not a citizen can you still get a Social Security card?  Wouldn't your non-citizenship status be reflected on your passport or ??  I lived and worked in a foreign country for many years and every time I turned around I had to show this or show that for identification.  I was constantly reminded that I was a foreigner.  I know its not the same as Joe's situation, of course, however, NEVER, not once knowing you are not a U.S. citizen and you're about 40 years old?  C'mon.  I just can't buy that.

 

And don't even get me on the subject about these colossal asshat morons not having insurance. 

Edited October 5, 2014 by beesknees

[WireWrap]

My father dragged me to our local social security office, just to keep him company in hell hole of a wait, over the spring for something involving my grandmother. Anyway we ended up talking to this 17 or 18yr old who spent his morning at the DMV to get a license only to be told he needed some kind of form from SS because he came to the country when he was 2 and his parents apparently didn't know he'd need such papers (felt so bad for the kid he kept holding put hope the wait would be short enough to make it back to the DMV before closing.) Granted Joe got his original drivers license many years ago but that alone would involve needing to know your status in this country, no? Since Joe has helped himself to Pete's license I bet he's seen Pete's passport which I would imagine would be different since Pete was born here. It is completely unbelievable he did not know he wasn't a citizen. Its HAD to have come up over the course of his life.

When you get married, you need to show a copy of your birth certificate. Joe was well aware that he was NOT a US citizen long ago. He chose to NOT become one.

[beesknees]

I am still left slack-jawed that his attorney actually threw that out there. It's one thing for the big goon himself to throw out another dumb lie....but....hello. His lawyer(s) should know better. Not only for the limitations on his rights as a non-citizen, but as you mentioned....he would have been travelling on Italian passport and US green card. As in...Joe would have had to either been sent to "the other/Non-US citizen line" at Passport control depending on the airport and obviously not have had a US passport and ask himself "Gee, maybe I should apply....oh wait!"

 

But no, it was just another "dumb technicality" that he tried to swipe under the table. "I dunno, I was a friggin baby when I came here...what'd I know, ya know?"  

 

Oh, yes, to the "The Other/Non-US Citizen Line" - Its been so long since I travelled.  There is no way, not in the entire course of Joe Guidice's life that this "Non-Citizen" issue has never come up.  IMHO Joe has always known he wasn't a U.S. citizen and I am sure the judge saw through that right away.

Edited October 5, 2014 by beesknees

[long beach lisa]

'Powerful' is putting it mildly. Alfred Dobler, wrote a commanding, insightful article. It puts the harsh truths right there on display for us on just how much the public feels absorbed, and even compelled, to follow people like the Giudices. In reality, they are nothing more than drain sludge where all the evils of humanity collect in a slimy pool. It's definitely a modern social behavior that Psychologists and Sociologists should be giving college classes on.  It isn't a very nice picture of human behavior, that's for sure. It goes right to the root of the problems we have in society. We are intrigued by greed and excess. Maybe it's because we feel that we can commit the crimes against all we believe in by doing it vicariously through reality stars, or maybe we feel superior in some ways by judging their unscrupulous behaviors. Perhaps understanding how our thinking is manipulated and what they really are may help keep reality shows in perspective and we can begin to learn what's important in life, and what's not.

So very unfortunately, the worst part is that -- as humans -- we're predisposed to this kind of morbid fascination (rubbernecking on the road) and apathy (so many innocent people slain every day, in certain cities and certain areas of towns, that it becomes one less thing we want to acknowledge).

 

I much prefer forgetting my own troubles by watching arrogant jackasses (see: all RH) have karma handed to them on a "cleansy" platter. But let's not forget we're the descendants of people who watched lions tear apart Christians for a fun afternoon pasttime.

[amarante]

I can't imagine how one could NOT know one's citizenship because at some point, the issue has to arise. I can imagine that in the past, things weren't as tight in terms of having to prove but post 9/11, how can you get a US pass port? Not that I think either of the Giudices would cast an informed ballot, but Joe obviously never made even an attempt to vote.

 

My mother came to the US when she was a child and was definitely a US citizen but I don't remember talking about her becoming naturalized so I just googled and the minor child becomes a US citizen when the parents are naturalized which is how my mother became a US citizen because my grandparents became naturalized.

This means that Mr. Juicy's parents never became citizens. I am all for immigration and cultural diversity but geez why are you living in a country in which you feel you have absolutely no stake in the democratic process in terms of becoming a citizen so you can vote. 

 

I much prefer forgetting my own troubles by watching arrogant jackasses (see: all RH) have karma handed to them on a "cleansy" platter. But let's not forget we're the descendants of people who watched lions tear apart Christians for a fun afternoon pasttime.

 

I know you are writing with a touch of hyperbole but technically most of us aren't descendants of the Romans to whom I think you are alluding LOL. The Giudice and their paisanos have that distinction. My people, although not Christian, were subject to a long history of their own martyrdom so I am not tarred with this particular brush. LOL

[diorella78]

This means that Mr. Juicy's parents never became citizens. I am all for immigration and cultural diversity but geez why are you living in a country in which you feel you have absolutely no stake in the democratic process in terms of becoming a citizen so you can vote.

 

I forgot about that. I think it was touched on on TWOP as well. Many people don't take the full step to become citizens, which, fine. But the pattern of apathy or laziness in the Giudice case kind of boggles my mind. Once married to Teresa Joe even had an extra 'step' in the process. I do not know how far back Joe's had trouble with the law but perhaps this was something that put him off the citizenship path. 

[WhoaWhoKnew]

I wonder how hard the Gorgas are shaking in their boots right now. Remember when Teresa said Juicy taught Joe Gorga how to do everything? I wonder if that meant how to screw over the govt too.

And there has to be some nefarious reason why Joe did not become a citizen. I just can't figure out what.

Edited October 5, 2014 by WhoaWhoKnew

[msblossom]

Joe is dumb, but a person knows if they're a US citizen or not. Just more bs by all involved, including his lawyers, to get mercy from the court.

[WireWrap]

I wonder how hard the Gorgas are shaking in their boots right now. Remember when Teresa said Juicy taught Joe Gorga how to do everything? I wonder if that meant how to screw over the govt too.

And there has to be some nefarious reason Joe did not become a citizen. I just can't figure out what.

I am not sure that Joey followed this path or that Joe even shared this info with him. It has been speculated that Frank taught Joe and Pete, so he may not have shared HIS family secrets/scams with Joey. I also think this may be why Joey dislike Joe as much as he really does, Joe brought his sister into a life of crime, even if Teresa went willingly/happily, her husband brought her into it.

[zoeysmom]

Putting aside the mortgage crisis of the last decade-I still have a hard time giving Giudices a pass.  Granted many people refinanced at a more favorable rate but many were able to resist the greedy banks efforts to make me borrow more money than they could afford.  If the mortgage fraud counts were  dismissed the Fraudicies had to answer for the BK fraud.  The BK filing had to do with Joe getting caught forging a partner's name on mortgage documents.  I think the BK fraud and the subsequent concealment from the court indicate there is no real chance these two will ever take responsibility.  I always remember these are people that had to be told to file taxes for years 2000-2011-so there is something that makes these people think basic rules such as immigration and taxes don't apply.

[long beach lisa]

I can't imagine how one could NOT know one's citizenship because at some point, the issue has to arise. I can imagine that in the past, things weren't as tight in terms of having to prove but post 9/11, how can you get a US pass port? Not that I think either of the Giudices would cast an informed ballot, but Joe obviously never made even an attempt to vote.

 

My mother came to the US when she was a child and was definitely a US citizen but I don't remember talking about her becoming naturalized so I just googled and the minor child becomes a US citizen when the parents are naturalized which is how my mother became a US citizen because my grandparents became naturalized.

This means that Mr. Juicy's parents never became citizens. I am all for immigration and cultural diversity but geez why are you living in a country in which you feel you have absolutely no stake in the democratic process in terms of becoming a citizen so you can vote. 

 

I know you are writing with a touch of hyperbole but technically most of us aren't descendants of the Romans to whom I think you are alluding LOL. The Giudice and their paisanos have that distinction. My people, although not Christian, were subject to a long history of their own martyrdom so I am not tarred with this particular brush. LOL

Just meant that, as part of the human race, we've all got some voyeurism in us...how else would a Bravo exist? :)

[zoeysmom]

I am not sure that Joey followed this path or that Joe even shared this info with him. It has been speculated that Frank taught Joe and Pete, so he may not have shared HIS family secrets/scams with Joey. I also think this may be why Joey dislike Joe as much as he really does, Joe brought his sister into a life of crime, even if Teresa went willingly/happily, her husband brought her into it.

I think it definitely influences the Gorgas to continue to pay their mortgages and not go bankrupt.  I do believe Joe Giudice is one of those people that is envious of anyone who has more than he does.  I think the whole Melissa copies Teresa stemmed more from Teresa not wanting to have anyone catch up to them.  I notice he has a bit of an attitude around Al Manzo and Richie.  When I watched Season 1 Teresa she sure wanted to surpass her friends in the bigger house, the shore house, the Maserati and all things onyx and marble.

[beesknees]

Oh boy, what an unfortunate name.

Nothing in the article surprises me; that's just how the Jee-oo-dee-chays roll. I wouldn't be surprised if later they uncover more assets and shenanigans.

And regarding Joe's drinking and plea for rehab; waaaah, cry me a river. More BS; not that Joe doesn't have a problem with alcohol -- we all know he does, but he wouldn't be seeking help if he wasn't looking to shorten his prison time or look for some kind of bs leniency. The guy has a wine cellar full of booze, he makes and bottles his own wine and schleps it with him to parties, and his wife has her own fabu-effing-stoopid brand o'booze. I don't doubt that Juicy wouldn't attempt it if it guaranteed him leniency, but now that it wasn't granted, I'll be surprised if he'll maintain a sober life when he's out of the clink. Just glad the judge didn't fall for it.

 

IMO Joe's gonna be a straight-up nightly drinker up until the day he goes to the clink.  No doubt in my mind about that.

[merylinkid]

I truly believe that Joe didn't become a US citizen on purpose.   "I don't have to pay taxes, I'm not a citizen."   "You can't put me in jail, I am not a citizen."   He truly believed it was a way to get out of trouble.

 

P.S.  The Roman Empire covered a lot more than Italy.   It went to the west all the way to the Atlantic, sucked in England, all the way to the Rhone River in Germany, to Romania (the name is kinda a clue) in the East and all the countries around the Mediterranean including most of the Middle East.  A lot more people than Italians watched lions eat Christians -- and other single God religions.  

[Bronzedog]

Pretty sure Joe's been a nightly drinker for a very long time.

[Gigi43]

Apparently Joe Giudice didn't teach Joe Gorga how to hide things as well as apparently did for a while so, either Joe Gorga is actually less shady or one hell of a storm is heading his way worse than the Giudices. I mean since Joe Gorga and Melissa joined the show quickly things came out like the the rumor/accusation about Gorga and the woman back in college, the fake house scam, Melissa's old shop lifting offense that was when she was barely over 18 I believe and so on... Yet Joe Giudice has apparently a documented list of a wrap sheet that went unnoticed until now. Those priors of Giudice's that have recently come out are THE most surprising thing too me; that its been kept under wraps for so long, throughout all of this. The day of the sentence was the first I'd heard of them and it appears I'm not alone. Actually given he's kept that so very tight it actually makes slight sense of him thinking he could get away with some of the recent stuff.

[diorella78]

I think it definitely influences the Gorgas to continue to pay their mortgages and not go bankrupt.  I do believe Joe Giudice is one of those people that is envious of anyone who has more than he does.  I think the whole Melissa copies Teresa stemmed more from Teresa not wanting to have anyone catch up to them.  I notice he has a bit of an attitude around Al Manzo and Richie.  When I watched Season 1 Teresa she sure wanted to surpass her friends in the bigger house, the shore house, the Maserati and all things onyx and marble.

I'm not sure Joe envies people with more then him, I think that's Teresa's territory. Although I can't put my finger on why Joe G didn't care for Al Manzo  (Richie I could understand...he's an annoying asswipe, lol)....for me it seems more like Joe can't stand people who aren't "guy's guys"....he seemed t genuinely like Chris Laurita. He seems to get along with other males. I think Joe Giudice just likes people who don't do much in general other than make sausage, down wine and don't get into actual discussions. I can see why he and Rosie get along. While I think Rosie can actually have deeper convos, she seems easy going and able to 'hang out'. Al Manzo never gave me that vibe (not saying it is wrong or strange). Joe Giudice just seems to be a very simple person who isn't going to get into conversations deeper than hunting season and 'good old days'. 

Edited October 5, 2014 by diorella78

[Bronzedog]

Obviously Joe Gu has a criminal mind and no conscience, but, I have to wonder if he'd be in this situation if he had married someone else. Someone who would have been happy with a simpler, honest, working class life. Teresa ain't that girl. I have to believe that some of this was caused by trying to please the bottomless pit of greed that is Teresa.

[zoeysmom]

I'm not sure Joe envies people with more then him, I think that's Teresa's territory. Although I can't put my finger on why Joe G didn't care for Al Manzo  (Richie I could understand...he's an annoying asswipe, lol)....for me it seems more like Joe can't stand people who aren't "guy's guys"....he seemed t genuinely like Chris Laurita. He seems to get along with other males. I think Joe Giudice just likes people who don't do much in general other than make sausage, down wine and don't get into actual discussions. I can see why he and Rosie get along. While I think Rosie can actually have deeper convos, she seems easy going and able to 'hang out'. Al Manzo never gave me that vibe (not saying it is wrong or strange). Joe Giudice just seems to be a very simple person who isn't going to get into conversations deeper than hunting season and 'good old days'. 

I saw it come out when Joe Gorga came on.  Then in Napa I noticed Chris had to tell Joe Giudice-he was offended because Joe was telling people he was a shady business man.  Obviously he really didn't care one way or the other this year whether or not he and Teresa the felon, saw Chris and Jac. Last season Joe was chastising Teresa for continuing her grudge against Jac.   

 

I don't think Joe Giudice liked the idea that Al Manzo was cautioning him about his restaurant idea.  With Richie-Teresa claimed that Joe taught Richie all he need to know about flipping properties. 

 

I think there are times Joe can be likeable but mostly I think he demonstrates antisocial behavior. 

[diorella78]

I saw it come out when Joe Gorga came on.  Then in Napa I noticed Chris had to tell Joe Giudice-he was offended because Joe was telling people he was a shady business man.

 

Yep, I see your point. I took those things in a different way. I think Juicy never appreciated Teresa's little brother overstepping his bounds (Juicy 'taught him'). With Chris Laurita, I saw drunk Juicy pissed about his situation and angry because Chris L wasn't the cleanest person in business either. I think Napa was Joe Giu at his nastiest all-around and was full of bitter. I don't think he's a nice person in general and when he drinks he's either hilarious or just rotten. 

[demarti]

Joe Giudice just seems to be a very simple person who isn't going to get into conversations deeper than hunting season and 'good old days'. 

That is because he is stupid, not simple. He has nothing deep to talk about because he can barely put two intelligent sentences together sober or drunk. A simple man does not have desires to build McMansions, buy designer furnishings, drive high end status cars, have a second home on the shore, lie to the government, cheat on his taxes, commit fraud,  etc... He met Tre when she was in high school , he could have bailed on her long before he ever married her if he thought he didn't want to or couldn't keep her in the life she dreamed of having. 

Edited October 5, 2014 by demarti

[diorella78]

That is because he is stupid, not simple

 

That is how I intended the word 'simple'....as in a simpleton. Joe is not going to have conversations about anything more than what he likes. 

 

I don't think Joe was opposed to the material things, but we'll agree to disagree on the point that I could imagine Joe living in the cabin upstate, hunting, fishing, making and drinking wine and smoking cigars, aside from various hookups with bimbos from the local bar. Teresa, OTOH, I couldn't imagine without her material possessions.  Guess now she'll have to do without. 

Edited October 5, 2014 by diorella78

[poeticlicensed]

I think there are a myriad of reasons why Joe Gui has not become a citizen. I don't believe for one second he was unaware he wasn't a US citizen. First, I think that this mortgage fraud/bankruptcy fraud case has not been his first brush with the legal system. My guess is that there have been many brushes along the way. Not enough to get him deported, but enough to make his record an impediment to citizenship. Second, I think there is a definite you can't touch me, I'm not a citizen, why should I pay taxes I'm not a citizen attitude. Worst case, he figured he'd be deported. I also think that some of the money they borrowed is well hidden outside the US. Not a ton, because he aint no criminal mastermind, but enough that he could go grab it and live on it for a while. Lastly, I think there is a certain bit of panache (at least in the minds of tre and company) to being an Italian citizen. Kind of like when Tre dissed Caro for not being 100% italian. Being a citizen is like the gold standard, kind of like being Spanish is the gold standard among the hispanic community. Not saying it's true, but that's what some believe. 

Edited October 5, 2014 by poeticlicensed

[zoeysmom]

I think Bravo did its job in the rehabilitation of Joe.   No too long ago he was the two timing, c%&t calling husband, telling the kid to shut up, flipping his vehicle going to jail for ten days, fume belching SOB of a landlord, who said almost as many nasty things and lies about his wife's relatives and co-stars as his wife.  I admit because I have never been able to stand Teresa there has been a ever so subtle rehabilitation of Joe the past two seasons.  I don't think he has even made a gay slur the last two seasons.  Part of me thinks the only way they could get Joe to come back on was to heavily edit or omit him all together.  

[TaxNerd]

When you get married, you need to show a copy of your birth certificate. Joe was well aware that he was NOT a US citizen long ago. He chose to NOT become one.

Completely agree! Much easier to avoid filing a tax return when not a citizen!

Edited October 5, 2014 by TaxNerd

[Barb23]

Thanks to everyone who answered my questions about their loans. Makes sense now. I also figured they had connections to get what they needed with no intention of ever paying it back.

I wonder how come the person/people that made the false documents weren't charged/convicted. (Thought I read that somewhere ). All I can picture is the episode in The Office where Creed says he has a little business that he runs out of his car referencing making fake ID's for high school /college kids after they recognized him in a bar. I can picture Juicy standing in this type of a line with college kids waiting to get his W2 paperwork (& new license) printed. Maybe they offered a 2 for 1 deal.

[TaxNerd]

Sorry, double post

Edited October 5, 2014 by TaxNerd

[TheFinalRose]

I would like to know if the Guidices are unable to, or unwilling to, follow the instructions of the court.  I think that there is a real possibility that they are actually unable to mentally process what was required of them or to understand what their instructions were. Like if there was a possible appeal based on stupidity, I could see them winning that. Teresa did understand that she was going to have her picture taken going to and from the courthouse, hence the makeup artist and hair stylist that visited her that morning. But reading a pre-sentencing requirement to list their assets or bring the cash required with them by the sentencing date might be beyond their mental capacity.

 

Or, quite possibly, they do not possess the attention spans or attention to detail that filling out a list of assets requires. And compare that to the type of detailed inventory the feds would be able to provide regarding their assets the Guidices were just always going to fall short.  I can see them filling out the form, getting stumped, and deciding to just write down $0 and go on to the next thing. 

 

Sometimes I think I have to give up on wanting them to "get" what they did. They are simply stunted on a second grade level (no offense to any smart second graders reading here.) and I keep expecting more out of them. 

[LotusFlower]

I would like to know if the Guidices are unable to, or unwilling to, follow the instructions of the court.  I think that there is a real possibility that they are actually unable to mentally process what was required of them or to understand what their instructions were. Like if there was a possible appeal based on stupidity, I could see them winning that. Teresa did understand that she was going to have her picture taken going to and from the courthouse, hence the makeup artist and hair stylist that visited her that morning. But reading a pre-sentencing requirement to list their assets or bring the cash required with them by the sentencing date might be beyond their mental ability.

Are you kidding? That's what their lawyers are for.

And did they already get their mug shot taken? I would think TMZ would have posted by now. Their known for that.

[Auntie Anxiety]

 

I think that there is a real possibility that they are actually unable to mentally process what was required of them or to understand what their instructions were.

That's what lawyers are for.  Surely the lawyers told them what to do, but lawyers can't make you do what you are supposed to do.  

 

I don't know what's going to happen about that heinous mansion (also known as House of Cards), but I've seen schemes and shenanigans up close and personal, so here's a guess:  The asking price is too high and they fully expect that no one will make an offer.  They will buy them time until the bank finally decides to foreclose and puts it up for a foreclosure auction (banks do not want to be homeowners). Foreclosure proceedings also take time, what with public notifications, etc. Usually the starting bid is pretty low as the bank will take what it can get, even if it means 50 cents on the dollar. The Fraudices have someone buy it at the auction for a bargain basement price and they find their way back into it.  And there is nothing anyone can do about it.

 

I got an incredible education from watching my ex operate.  He and Joe Guidice are like conjoined twins separated at the brain.  

[The Mighty Peanut]

I'm not that smart and I live very modestly. Fuck it, I'm taking up crime. I can deal with giving up ever being on a reality show.

[Barb23]

In regards to the future of the franchise. They should have Jaime Primak Sullivan (from Jersey Belle) join the cast. She wants to have a place in NJ & show her kids what Jersey is all about. I could see Jaime holding her own against what is left of the cast & is actually above them all since it appears she's made her way legally. But her life is probably too boring. (And they've already done the mixing of her proper Georgia friends with her Jersey gals.)

[zenme]

Jaime P. Sullivan is too law abiding to be on this show.  Can you imagine how her mother-in-law would respond during some of the epic RHONJ battles?

[Padma]

Are you kidding? That's what their lawyers are for.

And did they already get their mug shot taken? I would think TMZ would have posted by now. Their known for that.

Yes. They are stupid, both of them, but they have the mental capacity to understand every shady thing they've done and plan to do. My guess is that they still..still!...think they can game the system. That somehow they can get the prison sentences overturned because of "hardship" or "the children" or "prefer to be deported" (back to the country where all the cash is stashed.

 

They had not one, but two chances to go "straight" after being caught in a crime. Just like Joe with his DUI, it's their arrogance,not their stupidity, that gets them in trouble again and again.

 

I am glad Teresa is going to spend over a year in prison. Federal prison isn't so difficult (ask Martha Stewart) but it will be exactly what Teresa "I'm too good to live in a used house" Giudice needs to bring her back to the real world. I also hope they have to sell the new Mercedes, the fake "heirloom", and everything else they need to to pay the modest amount the court required (and, of course, their lawyers' fees). If they have any equity left at all in the McMansion, they should lose that, too.

 

I sound vindictive but the contempt they've shown with repeated offenses that let them live the high life while passing the cost onto the rest of us through bankruptcy and tax fraud is really aggravating.

[LotusFlower]

I forgot about the passport issue, so you guys are right - he had to have known he wasn't a U.S. citizen. But....is it possible he didn't know what that meant? i know that sounds ridiculous, but a) he's really dumb; b) his parents are really dumb, and didn't instruct him on naturalization, so I can kind of believe he had no idea until his legal issues began (whenever that was); and c) his answer to this question on WWHL. When Andy asked him about deportation, he disputed not being a U.S. citizen, and seemed completely clueless. What would he say that? It makes no sense, unless he truly never thought about it, and always thought he was "like" a U.S. citizen.

[Padma]

He's definitely dumb, but I think Joe --and his parents, and Teresa--thought there were advantages to not being a U.S. citizen (perhaps tax advantages, perhaps dual citizenship for the girls, perhaps they thought if they got caught criminally they could just "go back to Italy" instead of going to prison.)

 

He got married as an Italian marrying an American citizen. He travelled to Italy on an Italian, not U.S. passport. He has to do paperwork to legally stay in the U.S. He knows he's not a U.S. citizen. He's just a liar, like Teresa, and they both are common crooks, nothing special.

[HumblePi]

Bravo will have a special with Andy Cohen interviewing Joe and Teresa Monday night. The show is called "Watch What Happens". They're taping it today.

[LotusFlower]

He's definitely dumb, but I think Joe --and his parents, and Teresa--thought there were advantages to not being a U.S. citizen (perhaps tax advantages, perhaps dual citizenship for the girls, perhaps they thought if they got caught criminally they could just "go back to Italy" instead of going to prison.)

He got married as an Italian marrying an American citizen. He travelled to Italy on an Italian, not U.S. passport. He has to do paperwork to legally stay in the U.S. He knows he's not a U.S. citizen. He's just a liar, like Teresa, and they both are common crooks, nothing special.

I get it, and I agree with you, and I promise this is the last time I'll ask this, but why would he lie about it on TV? What does he gain by doing this, except looking like a fool? I can get behind the theory of him thinking there were advantages to his non-citizen status, but when you're in the public eye and embroiled in a huge (and publicized) legal mess, and you've been told you could be deported because you're not a U.S. citizen, why deny/challenge this fact? On "national tv," as they say. And in case you didn't see the interview, there was a real back-and-forth btwn. Andy and Joe. Joe kept saying "what are you talking about? I'm a citizen." Andy said he was confused and asked logical questions, and Joe seemed stumped. I mean truly stumped. I'm telling ya - that guy is either really, really dumb, or perpetually drunk. Or both.

Edited October 5, 2014 by LotusFlower

[WireWrap]

Bravo will have a special with Andy Cohen interviewing Joe and Teresa Monday night. The show is called "Watch What Happens". They're taping it today.

The reunion is filming today. The WWHL interview with Teresa/Joe was filmed Wednesday, the day after sentencing.

[LotusFlower]

^^ I think you meant Friday!

[WireWrap]

I get it, and I agree with you, and I promise this is the last time I'll ask this, but why would he lie about it on TV? What does he gain by doing this, except looking like a fool? I can get behind the theory of him thinking thinking there were advantages to his non-citizen status, but when you're in the public eye and embroiled in a huge (and publicized) legal mess, and you've been told you could be deported because of you're not a U.S. citizen, why deny this fact? On "national tv," as they say. And in case you didn't see the interview, there was a real back-and-forth btwn. Andy and Joe. Joe kept saying "what are you talking about? I'm a citizen." Andy said he was confused and asked logical questions, and Joe seemed stumped. I mean truly stumped. I'm telling ya - that guy is either really, really dumb, or perpetually drunk. Or both.

I think you answered yourself, he was drunk.  He knew full well he was NOT a US citizen. I don't think he can tell the truth to save his life....HE didn't even the truth about his material possessions that could/would have spared him some prison time! Both Teresa AND Joe are arrogant and Joe though that Andy would NOT challenge him and that is was stumped him, IMO. He had to keep up with his initial lie at all costs.

^^ I think you meant Friday!

Thanks, I stand corrected!

[kassa]

Among other reasons Joe would have known he wasn't a citizen -- he wouldn't have registered for selective service when everybody else his age was doing so.  But the kicker is traveling on the Italian passport.

 

 I hope that the judge was using some psychology when she made the "you're a great dad" comment.  He is now going to have the care of these girls for what is likely to be the most difficult year of their life.  Maybe she just wants him to start seeing his primary role as that of father and reconcile that with the damage he has done.  And on top of caring for them in their mom's absence, he also will be dreading his own time away from them, so this is the best way to get through to him what he really has done.  I also suspect that the girls (or at least Gia) were permitted to write letters of support for their parents which were left out for privacy reasons, but the judge might have wanted to acknowledge their love for their Dad. 

[LotusFlower]

I think you answered yourself, he was drunk.  He knew full well he was NOT a US citizen. I don't think he can tell the truth to save his life....HE didn't even the truth about his material possessions that could/would have spared him some prison time! Both Teresa AND Joe are arrogant and Joe though that Andy would NOT challenge him and that is was stumped him, IMO. He had to keep up with his initial lie at all costs.

But why keep up the lie? The cat was out of the bag. He is not a U.S. citizen, and may be deported because of it. Why challenge it in an interview, when he knows it's not true?

Maybe the drunk theory is the answer. Although part of me still thinks it's a combination of dumb + drunk = not knowing what being a citizen means. I keep thinking of that scene with Joe and Rosie going over one of the girl's homework. It was shocking how uneducated he was. (although he was probably drunk in that scene as well!)

[HumblePi]

The reunion is filming today. The WWHL interview with Teresa/Joe was filmed Wednesday, the day after sentencing.

Ok thank you. Lots to look forward to this week

[Lablover27]

Hoping to see some tweets from Andy on couch placement.  Shoe pic. Wonder what Tre will be wearing.  A gown again?

Edited October 6, 2014 by Lablover27

[LotusFlower]

Hoping to see some tweets from Andy on couch placement.  Shoe pic. Wonder what Tre will be wearing.  A gown again?

I just read on TMZ that Teresa was over four hours late, and then kept taking a break because she was "having a hard time." I don't think she's going to be able to get away with that in the pokey!

[SoCal4Us]

If the lawyers told them to list all their assets or they may get more prison time by not complying, why wouldn't they list anything...at all?  I just don't get it...

 

Not excusing her, but maybe she trusted Joe 100% to take care of all finances and never even thought twice...even up to sentencing.  Maybe Joe was trying to take all the blame because she just signed whatever he put in front of her, at least those documents that he didn't forge himself.  The alleged mailbox incident makes me wonder how bad his temper might be when he is crossed.

[TheFinalRose]

I would like to know if the Guidices are unable to, or unwilling to, follow the instructions of the court.  I think that there is a real possibility that they are actually unable to mentally process what was required of them or to understand what their instructions were. Like if there was a possible appeal based on stupidity, I could see them winning that. Teresa did understand that she was going to have her picture taken going to and from the courthouse, hence the makeup artist and hair stylist that visited her that morning. But reading a pre-sentencing requirement to list their assets or bring the cash required with them by the sentencing date might be beyond their mental ability.

Are you kidding? That's what their lawyers are for.

 

No, I'm not kidding. The lawyers didn't fill out the asset form and those omissions were what kept Teresa from getting probation, according to the judge. So what I am saying is even if the lawyers say, "fill out the asset form very carefully. Do not omit anything, cars, jewelry, construction equipment, new atvs, etc. Do you understand me?" and Teresa and Joe nod their heads up and down and swear to god that they are going to disclose everything. Then they take the forms home, throw them on the desk with a note to get it done before Oct. 2.  They take it out the night before, look at it and go, hmmm, what were we supposed to do with this again?" and "He definitely said construction equipment and atvs are not assets," and Teresa says, "yeah, that's right. I think I remember him saying that too." That's what I actually think goes on in that house. I think they are really really really really really really dum. And that they don't even know how to spell the word dumb, either.

 

The lawyers were not responsible for filling out the forms, obviously, because I expect that they would have been held somewhat accountable for them by the judge. It wasn't the lawyer's job to fill it out. Maybe to ask the Guidices to hand it in ahead of the court date so they could review it. Maybe they asked them to do that, and they still never did it and the lawyers just let them hang themselves.