S03:E12: Things Fall Apart

[Whimsy]

Quote

A burst pipe plunges the ED into chaos. Iggy counsels two stressed-out parents about their child. Gwen and Calvin have some devastating news for Max.

Original air date 5/18/21

[SunnyBeBe]

Some of these doctors are so dense and short sighted.......it makes it difficult to watch them.   

[ams1001]

So he does have a nanny..?

Wait, last week Floyd's mom needed a full-time caretaker and now she's having a gentleman caller? What?

Did he just make fun of Bloom's fake British accent? 😄

Did I hear correctly that they positively identified the specific chemical just based on symptoms described to poison control?

Why is Iggy more concerned about protecting Chance's feelings than his own family's safety? Keep it quiet at work for his sake? (Of course that means he will show up at the hospital at some point and no one there will know to prevent him from going to Iggy's office.)

Of course Max is running around hammering holes in the walls without even knowing what he might hit behind them...because that seems like the prudent thing to do. Don't get someone in who actually might know what they're dealing with or have the proper safety equipment or anything. And did he really think his jacket was going to stop that leak? Or him standing there holding onto the pipe while getting soaked with the stuff. (Is it bad that when I saw it soaking his pants I thought, "well at least he might not be able to have another kid"? He might love his daughter but he sure doesn't need another.)

And why is there a tank of this stuff in some faraway room in the hospital? (Did they answer that? I might have missed something. I didn't actually catch what the chemical was, either.)

Hey, Bloom, you can't take care of patients if you're dying. Or blind. [After needle scene: "Okay, I stand corrected."]

Sure, Helen, both of you get soaked in the stuff. That'll help.

"Why can't we just acknowledge reality?" Good question, Ignatius.

What is it with everyone yelling for help where no one can hear them on this show? How is this busy hospital so empty? 

After the scene with Max and Helen in the shower I looked at the clock and was surprised there was still 20 minutes left. That felt like season finale cliffhanger territory. (I know it's not the finale.)

Has anyone even called some sort of hazardous materials professional? It feels like this is happening in the ER and wherever this tank is located, and everything else is carrying on as normal, other than Iggy and his patients' parents not being able to leave the psych floor. What happened to the tank?

Of course there's a simple-miracle-cure-accidentally-stumbled-upon and everyone is just fine.

Really, Gwen? You couldn't wait until tomorrow and sit down and have a conversation? (Also, who didn't see that coming?)

 

[statsgirl]

Isn't what Gwen did technically kidnapping?  That should not go over well in court.

While it was nice to see the parents talk honestly about how hard it is to parent these kids (although with the show's usual hyperbole), I'm pretty sure that's not how you treat Oppositional Defiant Disorder.

30 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Why is Iggy more concerned about protecting Chance's feelings than his own family's safety?

He knows how badly he screwed up Chance's treatment?

[LexieLily]

4 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Really, Gwen? You couldn't wait until tomorrow and sit down and have a conversation? (Also, who didn't see that coming?)

Yeah, I know Max is going through a lot every single week, but slow your roll, Gwen. Luna is Max's daughter, you can't just take her without Max's permission, that is legit kidnapping. @statsgirl has the right idea, that would probably kill their custody position in court before it even started.

Too bad Gwen didn't stop to think that this is the nuclear option and they will be lucky to ever be allowed to see Luna again after they go to court and Max retains all of his parental rights.

Edited May 19, 2021 by LexieLily

[TooMuchRealityTV]

The in-law thing was totally predictable. Max has not come off as stable in awhile. While it was good to hear he does have a Nanny. It seems like he should have been able to call the in-laws less if that was the case. He comes off like he needs professional help. The leak finding thing seemed unhinged. He also seemed off in his apartment with Luna in the beginning of the episode. I can't tell if the writers are doing that on purpose or not.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Go figure we get a half-not bad episode of this show and now we have to wait two weeks.

Georgia’s parents have an uphill battle to prove Max is unfit. I used to work in a law firm where an attorney took a grandparents’ rights case, and the grandparent was clearly out of their element in not understanding their role and what they were entitled to and how the courts worked. (I was just an assistant but the attorneys were willing to tell me what was going on if I wanted to learn.) It seems like they want to say he was unfit because he needed some groceries and gets stuck at work? Am I missing something else? He’s not perfect but Luna isn’t showing signs of neglect. 
 

Don’t worry, ER’s Exodus. Your top spot for best chemical spill episode of a medical show remains. I thought it was kind of weird timing how everyone was just standing around and the ceiling fell in and it was like NBD let’s shuffle the ED around. I was also very concerned for Bloom giving that guy a needle while blind. She’s very lucky she got the right needle and he didn’t end up dead or something. 

 

[Frisky Wig]

Something I’ve been thinking about for a few weeks: I really feel for Luna. She always seems like such a sullen, miserable child with no personality. Occasionally we see her half-heartedly playing with a toy but most of the time she’s just sitting around. I guess this is preferable to what some shows do and have the kid be a sassy, sarcastic brat but I can’t help but feel bad for this unhappy child. 
 

Also, I gotta give this show credit for FINALLY showing an episode that doesn’t follow the same damn formula of Max suddenly realizes there’s a big, important issue going on, Max develops elaborate, ridiculous solutions that he somehow implements overnight, blah blah, you know the rest. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Frisky Wig

[ams1001]

6 hours ago, Frisky Wig said:

Something I’ve been thinking about for a few weeks: I really feel for Luna. She always seems like such a sullen, miserable child with no personality. Occasionally we see her half-heartedly playing with a toy but most of the time she’s just sitting around. I guess this is preferable to what some shows do and have the kid be a sassy, sarcastic brat but I can’t help but feel bad for this unhappy child. 

I feel like she's more of a prop than a real character. Part of that may be due to the fact that she's too young to really contribute much in the way of acting, so they can't exactly give her her own storylines. But as far as the show's storytelling goes, she's just one more thing to make Max's life harder. (Though if he would just prioritize actually doing his own job and getting home instead of spending extra hours every day trying to save the world, maybe he'd be better able to take care of her.)

[catrice2]

I was over wanting Max and Helen together a long time ago.  The way the character of Max is written he is just exhausting and I have no idea why any sane woman would want to take that on.  I had hoped they were writing his manic behavior as him covering for not dealing with his grief and eventually they would ease up...but no.  

Why in the world would he try to fix something and why would she immediately try to help instead of at least calling someone to let them know where they were?  Was there no one else in the hospital with the right safety equipment that could have rinsed him off?  They go from the ridiculous to the absurd. 

It was clear to me we were headed for a custody battle as soon as I found out the child was staying with them during COVID... actually as soon as his wife died..such lazy and predictable writing all around

The only way the Floyd/Dr. thing would have worked for me is if she had admitted she made up a husband to scare people off and there was no husband.  Now I have no idea what the point is. 

I care less about Iggy, so nothing to say there 

Almost the same with Bloom.  I usually fast forward through her scenes so I missed that her right hand was thinking of leaving....where was her new love? 

[LittleIggy]

Floyd said the chemical was a herbicide. Why would there be a big vat of herbicide in a hospital? 
Wow, great timing, Gwen. Way to kick a man while he is down! 🙄

[rove4]

So Max is an unfit parent because...he's single and works?  Yeah, good luck with that, Gwen. 

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, LittleIggy said:

Floyd said the chemical was a herbicide. Why would there be a big vat of herbicide in a hospital? 

Did anyone catch what the chemical was called? I couldn't tell what they were saying when they referred to the initials, either. I wanted to google it (but not enough to go watch again). 

What happened to the tank? Why was it there? What caused it to fail so badly? Were there more damaged pipes in the hospital? Did they patch the sledgehammer-holes in the walls? There was a magical last minute cure for those exposed and then we heard nothing further about it.

[DearEvette]

An uptick and a nice breather from Max the social crusader whose crusades don;t really accomplish much.

The writing is very confused re: Floyd's mother.  If she is well enough to get bizzay then she is well enough to manage her own medication. 

Casey really had become a stealth great character over the course of the series. 

Bloom didn't annoy me this episode  And she did something pretty badass.

Iggy, otoh, continues to annoy me.  His husband is a goddamn saint. I did like the parents calling bullshit on him.  Good for them.

I remember an interview by Peter Horton where he says they genuinely never started out to write Helen and Max as a romantic pair or even possibility.  But Freema and Ryan brought their own intensity to their scenes together, they would shade the words and looks and body language.  So they started to write toward that.  I could see it.  And honestly I think it is very smart of a show where possible to take advantage of good chemistry rather than try to  maintain something that isn't working.  I thought Freema really sold her desperation for Max as something more than just a good friend and co-worker.  The scene in the wordless scene in decontamination chamber was well shot.

For once I wish the show wouldn't write so broadly and obviously.  I wish the grandparents had been just understanding  and supportive of Max instead of going scorched earth. It is one thing is Max were neglectful or abusive.  It does get old with tv using the single parent as synonymous with incapable. 

[jabRI]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

For once I wish the show wouldn't write so broadly and obviously.  I wish the grandparents had been just understanding  and supportive of Max instead of going scorched earth. It is one thing is Max were neglectful or abusive.  It does get old with tv using the single parent as synonymous with incapable. 

I agree with this.  They should have been able to come up with a supportive plan.  But we also don't know the backstory, maybe they always felt their daughter married beneath her? Or some other resentment? I don't see a particularly warm, natural relationship with Max and the grandparents.

[txhorns79]

20 hours ago, ams1001 said:

 

Of course Max is running around hammering holes in the walls without even knowing what he might hit behind them...because that seems like the prudent thing to do. Don't get someone in who actually might know what they're dealing with or have the proper safety equipment or anything. And did he really think his jacket was going to stop that leak? Or him standing there holding onto the pipe while getting soaked with the stuff. (Is it bad that when I saw it soaking his pants I thought, "well at least he might not be able to have another kid"? He might love his daughter but he sure doesn't need another.)

This annoyed me to no end.  Why is the Medical Director doing any of this?  Why is Max so stupid and reckless?  He's ridiculously lucky he didn't inadvertently end up killing himself.  

And more people should call out Iggy on his bs.  It was amazing to me that Iggy has a stalker who has made contact with his husband and children, and he actually needs to be told to get a restraining order.    

[amarante]

I feel that Max's actions were just as ridiculous as his previous actions to save the world one stupid ineffectual solution at a time. 

I don't understand how he is capable of actually doing a job that when done properly is not close to 9 to 8 let alone spending hours with individual patients. Why would the head of a hospital be wasting time attempting to do something rather than have his assistant call in people who are trained for this kind of emergency. 

And of course that he is actually engaging in all of this stupidity makes me wonder how he is able to exercise judgment in any other matter. 

As someone posted up thread, ER which is more than 20 years old still hasn't been surpassed in terms of being a medical drama with human interest without resorting to completely unrealistic modes of operation. Dr. Bentley had the sick mother he attempted to take care of and it made much more sense and was much more heartbreaking. Of course there was the doctor killed with the helicopter which was a bit over the top but it wasn't jumping the shark every damn episode - sometimes multiple times in an episode. Even Grays which borders on the outlandish did the medical doctor at risk in the episode where they had inadvertently been trapped in the flooded basement with live electrical current because there was a reason why they were actually DOWN THERE that made some kind of sense in terms of their job duties.

I mean ER was 20 years ago and television is supposed to be undergoing a second "Golden Age" and instead the genre shows seem to be devolving. 

And don't get me started on these damn Dr. Welby style doctors who seem to have nothing better to do than spend hours babysitting their patients. I was in the hospital once and have no complaints about my care. None of the doctors spent a nanosecond beyond what was absolutely necessary for my medical care nor did the registered nurses. They don't have the time to do that kind of thing. 

[KaveDweller]

17 minutes ago, jabRI said:

I agree with this.  They should have been able to come up with a supportive plan.  But we also don't know the backstory, maybe they always felt their daughter married beneath her? Or some other resentment? I don't see a particularly warm, natural relationship with Max and the grandparents.

I assume they blame him for Georgia's death.

Now Max is a terrible medical director and delusional about all the social issues he thinks he can fix. But I've never seen anything to suggest he is a bad father or not capable of taking care of Luna. His life is a bit hectic, but so are most working parents. 

He has a medical crisis because of a chemical leak and the grandparents basically kidnap his baby? You can't take permanent custody of someone's kid because of that. I hope they don't show Max actually letting Luna stay with them while the court battle is going on. Until there is some kind of ruling, they would have to turn her back over to him.

[preeya]

48 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

This annoyed me to no end.  Why is the Medical Director doing any of this?  Why is Max so stupid and reckless?  He's ridiculously lucky he didn't inadvertently end up killing himself.  

Did Ryan Eggold actually sign up for this incessent buffoonery week after week after week???

[statsgirl]

55 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

But I've never seen anything to suggest he is a bad father or not capable of taking care of Luna.

He takes care of Luna when he is with her. But how much time does he really spend with her? Weekends maybe.  He gets up with her in the morning but  he has to make special arrangements to get home in time to put her into bed. Luna is being raised by a succession of nannies and babysitters. And while one idiosyncratic breakfast is okay, how many times has this happened because Max forgot to pick up supplies?

I'm not saying that what Gwen did was right. But as Luna's only parent, Max has to give her a higher priority.

[KaveDweller]

39 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

He takes care of Luna when he is with her. But how much time does he really spend with her? Weekends maybe.  He gets up with her in the morning but  he has to make special arrangements to get home in time to put her into bed. Luna is being raised by a succession of nannies and babysitters. And while one idiosyncratic breakfast is okay, how many times has this happened because Max forgot to pick up supplies?

I'm not saying that what Gwen did was right. But as Luna's only parent, Max has to give her a higher priority.

As Luna's only parent, Max has to keep a job so he can support her.

I agree he should make an effort to spend time with her. Especially as she starts to get older. But people have to work. We can't hold that against a parent. We don't really know how many nights Max get home early or how often he forgets to buy groceries because they spend about 30 seconds on episode on Luna, and each episode is about a day. I guess next week we will hear the grandparents list all his mistakes.

[DearEvette]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

He takes care of Luna when he is with her. But how much time does he really spend with her? Weekends maybe.  He gets up with her in the morning but  he has to make special arrangements to get home in time to put her into bed. Luna is being raised by a succession of nannies and babysitters. And while one idiosyncratic breakfast is okay, how many times has this happened because Max forgot to pick up supplies?

I'm not saying that what Gwen did was right. But as Luna's only parent, Max has to give her a higher priority.

But this is symptomatic of why young children can be problematic in a show like this.  Everything is about plot and unless the child is the plot then showing the minutia of how well Max parents isn't a priority.  It isn't a domestic drama.  Until we need to see Max with Luna we don't. 

Another reason why the writing for a plot like this is a rather lazy trope is because we see one slice of a morning where things are chaotic and that is supposed to be a red flag even though they never showed anything previous to even suggest this as if running out of eggs and burning food isn't something that can happen to anyone on a given day for any family. 

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

He has a medical crisis because of a chemical leak and the grandparents basically kidnap his baby? You can't take permanent custody of someone's kid because of that. I hope they don't show Max actually letting Luna stay with them while the court battle is going on. Until there is some kind of ruling, they would have to turn her back over to him.

Yeah, I wish someone had mentioned that until the grandparents are actually granted custody, they have to give Luna back.  They can't just keep her, even if they think Max is a bad parent.

[Frisky Wig]

Yes, Max needs to work to support Luna. Helen  broke up with her boyfriend and stepped down from her job to completely devote herself to her (bratty, ungrateful) niece, and teenage Mina requires MUCH less time/effort than toddler Luna does. Surely Max can do something similar regarding his job. 

[LittleIggy]

Thank god, bratty Mina wasn’t in this week’s episode. I still don’t understand why she thinks Helen “abandoned” Mina’s family. Her grandpa and dad must have fed her a load of bull💩 about Helen.

[NJRadioGuy]

This episode and the season needed to end at the shower scene. Period. 

Am I too much of a geek if the words going through my head watching that bit by the tank should have been along the lines of
Max: "Helen....the hospital? Out of Danger?"
Sharpe: "Max, I've got to get you out of here....you could die."
Max: "Die? I'm dead already. I have been and always shall be...your friend."

Because that's all I could think about during those tense moments. Then the stupid writers had to break the tension and back to the B- and C-plots. I don't give a rat's ass about Iggy, his partner, Chance or anything related to his family. Frome only worked as a B-plot character when he could play off against Kapoor. Writing Kapoor out was a huge mistake as far as I'm concerned. Bloom was a major badass tonight. There's something about her I've always liked.

There's no denying that Ryan Eggold and Freema Agyeman have sizzling chemistry on screen. I figured Georgia's death was the writers' way of finding the path to pairing them up. I'm generally not a fan of lead characters hooking up but I'll make an exception for those two, especially if the writing is there.

The plumbers' union will have Max's balls for bookends for his meddling on their turf. Of course, as someone else posted above, why the actual f--k was there a 200 gallon tank of pressurized herbicide in a disused room on the top floor of a hospital? That's a Batman Villain backstory level of negligence.

Why the FDNY didn't have the Hazmat Battalion and at least a third alarm's worth of companies evacuating and decontaminating everybody is beyond me. And the writers. 

That phone call was almost as bad as C-3PO's interruption in The Empire Strikes Back.

Edited May 23, 2021 by NJRadioGuy

[LexieLily]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

Yeah, I wish someone had mentioned that until the grandparents are actually granted custody, they have to give Luna back.  They can't just keep her, even if they think Max is a bad parent.

I'm guessing the grandparents are telling their lawyers that Max said "yeah, okay," when clearly Max meant for the night only. And also, they were already picking everything up and had Luna's bags packed when Gwen was on the phone with Max. This was obviously a pre-planned thing. If Max hadn't picked up his hospital room phone were they going to take her anyway and leave Max a message or a note? Nothing about the way they went about this looks good for them. They had more of Luna's things then were needed for just a few nights while Max recovered. They were planning that entire day to take her and not give her back and Max's near-death experience gave them the excuse they needed.

[ChiMama]

1 hour ago, NJRadioGuy said:

This episode and the season needed to end at the shower scene. Period. 

The SERIES needed to end at the shower scene. Period. FIFY.

[circumvent]

12 hours ago, statsgirl said:

He takes care of Luna when he is with her. But how much time does he really spend with her? Weekends maybe.  He gets up with her in the morning but  he has to make special arrangements to get home in time to put her into bed. Luna is being raised by a succession of nannies and babysitters. And while one idiosyncratic breakfast is okay, how many times has this happened because Max forgot to pick up supplies?

I'm not saying that what Gwen did was right. But as Luna's only parent, Max has to give her a higher priority.

Assuming that this while life is what we see. He has days off, he does spend time with her, she is just not a main character in the show. The whole story is badly written because how else would they did out the grandparent wants custody plot.

On the other hand, a lot of children grow up with parents working too much. It is a shitty system, but it is real. Max has many privileges but he is a busy doctor, a medical director at a major hospital (despite the mess the writers make all the time) and he needs a lot of help. It would be an interesting sub plot if I trusted the writers to do it well.

[ams1001]

53 minutes ago, circumvent said:

On the other hand, a lot of children grow up with parents working too much. It is a shitty system, but it is real. Max has many privileges but he is a busy doctor, a medical director at a major hospital (despite the mess the writers make all the time) and he needs a lot of help. It would be an interesting sub plot if I trusted the writers to do it well.

If he was smart he'd get a bigger place and a live-in nanny (who is not her grandmother who lives in the next state). He's the medical director of a major hospital; I'm sure he can afford it. He mentioned a "Tuesday nanny" or something like that; does he just have a revolving stable of babysitters? That's probably not ideal for her, either.

[NJRadioGuy]

9 hours ago, ChiMama said:

The SERIES needed to end at the shower scene. Period. FIFY.

Even better. Yes. 

[MinorL]

There is no way grandparents would get custody in this scenario. The show was so obviously moving toward this, but didn’t do anything to show Max as remotely unfit. 

[LittleIggy]

@NJ RadioGuy They didn’t have much choice re: writing Kapoor out. Anupam Kher’s wife is battling multiple myeloma, and he, of course, is staying with her. Kapoor was my fave so I miss him, but Kher did what he had to do. 

[circumvent]

2 hours ago, ams1001 said:

If he was smart he'd get a bigger place and a live-in nanny (who is not her grandmother who lives in the next state). He's the medical director of a major hospital; I'm sure he can afford it. He mentioned a "Tuesday nanny" or something like that; does he just have a revolving stable of babysitters? That's probably not ideal for her, either.

True. That's a logical outcome, and probably doable - although I don't know the financial situation of people on his position, I assume you are correct he can afford. But like everything in this show, logic and better solutions don't apply

[Driad]

Speaking of logic, Max should learn to delegate.  For all we know, there may be a dozen people in unmarked offices waiting for something to do.

[ams1001]

17 minutes ago, circumvent said:

True. That's a logical outcome, and probably doable - although I don't know the financial situation of people on his position, I assume you are correct he can afford. But like everything in this show, logic and better solutions don't apply

According to Salary.com, the median salary of a medical director in the US is just under 290K; when I filtered for NYC, it went up to almost 350K. Unless he's got major debts, he can certainly afford more space in NYC.

[statsgirl]

3 hours ago, circumvent said:

On the other hand, a lot of children grow up with parents working too much. It is a shitty system, but it is real. Max has many privileges but he is a busy doctor, a medical director at a major hospital (despite the mess the writers make all the time) and he needs a lot of help.

That's Max's choice though. He could step down from being the medical director where he bears huge responsibilities and is always on call for emergencies, and work as an ED doctor. Fixed hours, no overtime or  having to run in because there's another problem in the hospital, and in NY the salary is $300,000 to $400,000. He can even work part-time and still make more than enough to support himself and Luna.

3 hours ago, ams1001 said:

 He mentioned a "Tuesday nanny" or something like that; does he just have a revolving stable of babysitters? That's probably not ideal for her, either.

Yes, he said that "the Tuessday nanny" couldn't make it.  So Gwen and her husband cancelled their day's plans (retired college-educated people tend to be the backbone of the volunteer world) and hopped on the train for a 2 hour trip into the city to take care of Luna. I wouldn't be surprised if they spent those two hours discussing what they are going to do.

I've been saying for a few episode now that Gwen must be getting super pissed off with Max. In addition to her regular days with Luna, she goes in to the city to look after Luna in emergencies but that is because she loves Luna, and in so doing, she ends up with 4 more hours with travel time longer than his work day. In addition, she told Max that he could have died from the chemicals. That's true, there was no reason that Max had to be the one to to smash walls looking for the toxic goo when NYC has a perfectly good HAZMAT service, especially since he's Luna's only living parent. What he should have been doing is overseeing the evacuation of the hospital and looking for the plans of where and what it might be.

My daughter won't watch this show with me because she says that Max has ADHD with an amount of narcissism and she won't watch him. I think  she's right on the diagnosis -- Max always goes for the next exciting task and hates paperwork, and his narcissism is that he thinks that he can and needs to save the world every week. He counts on other people to provide the back-up that he doesn't want to do. He loves Luna and probably the time he spends with her but he'd rather solve global-warming.

I can see why a nanny might not want to live-in with a single father but it would be the best solution. Or he could share a nanny with someone else who has a child of Luna's age.

2 hours ago, MinorL said:

There is no way grandparents would get custody in this scenario. The show was so obviously moving toward this, but didn’t do anything to show Max as remotely unfit. 

I'm not so sure. If they can show that Max has a revolving door of childcare and spends little actual time with Luna, they could argue that they will provide a more stable environment for her while she's so young, especially as they were the ones that she was living with during the pandemic.

[circumvent]

9 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Yes, he said that "the Tuessday nanny" couldn't make it.  So Gwen and her husband cancelled their day's plans (retired college-educated people tend to be the backbone of the volunteer world) and hopped on the train for a 2 hour trip into the city to take care of Luna. I wouldn't be surprised if they spent those two hours discussing what they are going to do.

I've been saying for a few episode now that Gwen must be getting super pissed off with Max. In addition to her regular days with Luna, she goes in to the city to look after Luna in emergencies but that is because she loves Luna, and in so doing, she ends up with 4 more hours with travel time longer than his work day. In addition, she told Max that he could have died from the chemicals. That's true, there was no reason that Max had to be the one to to smash walls looking for the toxic goo when NYC has a perfectly good HAZMAT service, especially since he's Luna's only living parent. What he should have been doing is overseeing the evacuation of the hospital and looking for the plans of where and what it might be.

My daughter won't watch this show with me because she says that Max has ADHD with an amount of narcissism and she won't watch him. I think  she's right on the diagnosis -- Max always goes for the next exciting task and hates paperwork, and his narcissism is that he thinks that he can and needs to save the world every week. He counts on other people to provide the back-up that he doesn't want to do. He loves Luna and probably the time he spends with her but he'd rather solve global-warming.

I can see why a nanny might not want to live-in with a single father but it would be the best solution. Or he could share a nanny with someone else who has a child of Luna's age.

You are trying t apply logic to this show. It will not work.

 

9 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I'm not so sure. If they can show that Max has a revolving door of childcare and spends little actual time with Luna, they could argue that they will provide a more stable environment for her while she's so young, especially as they were the ones that she was living with during the pandemic.

Yes, that can happen if they decide that what we see is all that happens in his life. The show timeline is similar to our timeline - it is one day in a week. We don't see the other days - in most or some cases, at least. So we don't see that Max does have a day off, that he does have a "nanny system" that works, that he does spend quality time with Luna. It will all depend on how much courtroom/social services drama the writers want. But assuming that a working single parent cannot give a child a good emotional quality of life just because he works odd/long hours is discriminatory. It would be a nice surprise if the writers used this as an argument, then have Max make decisions that make him go back to being a doctor instead of the white savior/handyman every week.

It would be even better if they just dropped this old and overused plot though. There is nothing inherently wrong with working hard and asking for help when needed. A custody fight in this show is a filler, it will not become the reason for the show, so it will be just annoying and end up with Max having custody. likely forgiving the grandparents and we will be commenting on how much a waste of time it all was.

[yourmomiseasy]

I've decided this is a show about Max's undiagnosed mental issues and about Iggy being too shitty at his job to realize it.  What sane person would do what Max did and stand in a waterfall of hazmat trying to ineffectually save everyone?  It falls right in line with his savior complex and was as ineffectual as all his other solutions have been, this time it was just super dangerous.  Regarding him flailing with a sledgehammer busting walls, didn't this hospital have an asbestos problem?  Or was that some other shitty medical show?

I might not have been paying good attention, but did the grandparents really flee the state with Luna?  Or were they getting a hotel and keeping her in NY for the night?  As others have said, Max needs to get a place with rooms and have a live-in nanny.  He can afford it.  He should also be having his groceries delivered.  Sit down for 10 minutes after Luna goes to bed, order that shit on your phone, and have it scheduled so it is waiting at your door when you wake up in the morning.  If he can take the time to order take out he can take the time to order eggs and milk.  He can afford the extra in mark-up, fees, and tip.  There are also meal kit and meal delivery services.  This is stupid.  People in NYC have shit delivered all the time.  For real, worst case he could have Postmated some waffles while waiting for his in-laws to show up (having waffles delivered to your house in the morning is not hard, I've done it while drunk).  But he probably has a problem with the Postmates business model -- I'm surprised we haven't seen him take it on yet.  But we know he knows about couriers because he used them to deliver opioids.  I guess this just goes along with Max not knowing how to delegate and having to take all tasks on himself.  

All in all, I think Max could really use a therapist (not Iggy).  Or maybe even just a life coach.  Inyala needs to fix this mess.

Edited May 20, 2021 by yourmomiseasy

[MinorL]

3 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I'm not so sure. If they can show that Max has a revolving door of childcare and spends little actual time with Luna, they could argue that they will provide a more stable environment for her while she's so young, especially as they were the ones that she was living with during the pandemic.

Courts typically defer to keeping custody with parents. Luna's grandparents would have to show abuse or neglect (a revolving door of childcare and spending little time with the child don't meet that definition) or Luna's safety was in danger. I also doubt a judge would issue an order that could be perceived as punishing an essential medical worker for keeping his child safe during COVID by having her live with her grandparents. (Judges are human, too!) It's realistic that grandparents could think this entitled them to custody, but the legal reality is it's very unlikely. Shows love to make it seem like a harried, busy single parent is unfit and subject to losing their child, but that's not the reality.

[ams1001]

20 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

I might not have been paying good attention, but did the grandparents really flee the state with Luna?

Pretty much. I mean, I'm sure Max would have asked (expected, even) them to keep her for the night, anyway, because someone had to take care of her, and I kinda get why they wouldn't want to sleep at his place. (And if they weren't hinting at them trying to get custody over the past couple episodes, and the fact that they were practically running out the door with her stuff, no one would think anything of it.)

Given the situation, them taking her home for a night because he was in the hospital, especially given that they have been caring for her for the past year and still babysit on a regular basis, probably wouldn't be of interest to the legal system. But if they try to keep her from him while they're filing for custody, then I'd call it kidnapping. 

[KaveDweller]

4 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I've been saying for a few episode now that Gwen must be getting super pissed off with Max. In addition to her regular days with Luna, she goes in to the city to look after Luna in emergencies but that is because she loves Luna, and in so doing, she ends up with 4 more hours with travel time longer than his work day. In addition, she told Max that he could have died from the chemicals. That's true, there was no reason that Max had to be the one to to smash walls looking for the toxic goo when NYC has a perfectly good HAZMAT service, especially since he's Luna's only living parent. What he should have been doing is overseeing the evacuation of the hospital and looking for the plans of where and what it might be.

Gwen could say no though. Max asked her to watch Luna a couple of days a week because he could tell Luna was missing her. If Gwen didn't want to take a long train ride she could have told Max to find his own nanny or bring Luna back to CT full time. 

Obviously she is going to say yes because she is worried about Luna, and was trying to get along with Max. But she never had to do whatever he said.

The dumbest part of this whole thing is the medical director's kid getting thrown out of the hospital daycare.. With the claim that Luna was given 3 warnings. How do  warn a 1-year-old? They would have warned Max and given him more time to get a better child care plan in place. It was all to set up needing the grandparents but it is so dumb.

[yourmomiseasy]

55 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Pretty much. I mean, I'm sure Max would have asked (expected, even) them to keep her for the night, anyway, because someone had to take care of her, and I kinda get why they wouldn't want to sleep at his place. (And if they weren't hinting at them trying to get custody over the past couple episodes, and the fact that they were practically running out the door with her stuff, no one would think anything of it.)

Given the situation, them taking her home for a night because he was in the hospital, especially given that they have been caring for her for the past year and still babysit on a regular basis, probably wouldn't be of interest to the legal system. But if they try to keep her from him while they're filing for custody, then I'd call it kidnapping. 

Agreed.  If they try to keep her while this is in court without a temporary order of custody, I think it is even worse for them having taken her across state lines.  If I know anything from watching TV, once you do that it's a federal issue.

[NJRadioGuy]

7 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

@NJ RadioGuy They didn’t have much choice re: writing Kapoor out. Anupam Kher’s wife is battling multiple myeloma, and he, of course, is staying with her. Kapoor was my fave so I miss him, but Kher did what he had to do. 

I hadn't heard that. It makes complete sense that he left and I hope she recovers fully. Now with that said, Iggy needs another character actor to play off. And less screen time.

[statsgirl]

3 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

The dumbest part of this whole thing is the medical director's kid getting thrown out of the hospital daycare.. With the claim that Luna was given 3 warnings. How do  warn a 1-year-old?

Remove her from the situation and speak firmly, much like you train a puppy. One year olds know acceptable vs unacceptable behaviour..

The daycare supervisor said that they usually throw out kids after the first biting incident for the protection of the other children but since it was Max's kid, they gave her three strikes.

Luna's biting is 'acting out'. She was unhappy, probably because of the changes in her life, and expressing that unhappiness in the only way she knew how.

I'm on Luna's side, not Gwen's.  I'm tired of Max putting everything, including his own ego, ahead of his toddler daughter.

[LexieLily]

3 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Agreed.  If they try to keep her while this is in court without a temporary order of custody, I think it is even worse for them having taken her across state lines.  If I know anything from watching TV, once you do that it's a federal issue.

And I am under the impression the grandparents knew this; they called when he was indisposed and unable to return home immediately and from what the show itself showed from their side of the screen, they were halfway out the door with Luna when they called and Gwen was practically hanging up on him after she said they were taking Luna and filing for custody. If I were Max my first call would be to a lawyer to get Luna back, now.

[KaveDweller]

5 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Remove her from the situation and speak firmly, much like you train a puppy. One year olds know acceptable vs unacceptable behaviour..

The daycare supervisor said that they usually throw out kids after the first biting incident for the protection of the other children but since it was Max's kid, they gave her three strikes.

Luna's biting is 'acting out'. She was unhappy, probably because of the changes in her life, and expressing that unhappiness in the only way she knew how.

I'm on Luna's side, not Gwen's.  I'm tired of Max putting everything, including his own ego, ahead of his toddler daughter.

Yes, one-year-olds know acceptable behavior, but she probably wouldn't understand the implication of getting kicked out of daycare. Of course, I don't have kids, so maybe I am wrong. It just seems like they would have told Max it was an issue and if it kept happening she'd get kicked out. Of course maybe they did and Max didn't pay attention because he was on his own crusade to end <insert social justice cause of the week>.

I agree Luna is unhappy and acting out. She has had a lot of drama for a baby.

[LittleIggy]

5 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Pretty much. I mean, I'm sure Max would have asked (expected, even) them to keep her for the night, anyway, because someone had to take care of her, and I kinda get why they wouldn't want to sleep at his place. (And if they weren't hinting at them trying to get custody over the past couple episodes, and the fact that they were practically running out the door with her stuff, no one would think anything of it.)

Given the situation, them taking her home for a night because he was in the hospital, especially given that they have been caring for her for the past year and still babysit on a regular basis, probably wouldn't be of interest to the legal system. But if they try to keep her from him while they're filing for custody, then I'd call it kidnapping. 

Max needs to go to the in-laws the next day and say he is there to collect Luna. When they refuse, Max could then call the cops.

[apn85]

I feel like Helen stepped down for more reasons than Mina. I think that was a set up for more down the road. I could be totally wrong, but I feel like she is going to play a role in the "partner and Mom" Ryan mentioned in several interviews during this season's promo. He said Max would realize he needed a partner for himself and a Mom for Luna - or something along those lines. Ryan and Freema's chemistry is undeniable, so for me it's about time they get on with it. 

I've seen the custody situation coming for a while. I don't think they have a snowball in hell's chance (though you cannot apply logic to this show) and I think a lot of their actions stem from their resentment toward Max and their no doubt complicated grief related to their daughter. I expect a lot of that will come out next episode. Still, Max doesn't deserve to lose his daughter. I don't deny he needs to do better, but ripping his child from him is a little extreme, IMO, and I really hope they don't go down that road. 

I would actually love to know what happened to Max's family. We know his sister died in childhood, but aside from his parents being briefly mentioned in relation to her death, we know nothing of them. Where are his parents? Are they deceased? Are they estranged? I'd love some backstory there. 

[bros402]

On 5/19/2021 at 4:50 PM, ams1001 said:

Did anyone catch what the chemical was called? I couldn't tell what they were saying when they referred to the initials, either. I wanted to google it (but not enough to go watch again). 

What happened to the tank? Why was it there? What caused it to fail so badly? Were there more damaged pipes in the hospital? Did they patch the sledgehammer-holes in the walls? There was a magical last minute cure for those exposed and then we heard nothing further about it.

I think it was MCHA. I think it started with MC.

Obviously it magically teleported into the hospital because it exists in multiple times.

The cure was pushing that chemical Floyd did when the patient's heart started to fail, which increased the pH???

13 hours ago, ams1001 said:

If he was smart he'd get a bigger place and a live-in nanny (who is not her grandmother who lives in the next state). He's the medical director of a major hospital; I'm sure he can afford it. He mentioned a "Tuesday nanny" or something like that; does he just have a revolving stable of babysitters? That's probably not ideal for her, either.

I think he said "Today's nanny?"

11 hours ago, ams1001 said:

According to Salary.com, the median salary of a medical director in the US is just under 290K; when I filtered for NYC, it went up to almost 350K. Unless he's got major debts, he can certainly afford more space in NYC.

It looks like the current director of Bellevue, William Hicks, earned $329,600 a year in 2018 - https://openpayrolls.com/employee/william-hicks-10793

So, now it's time for...

WHO'S THE WORST DOCTOR: had to skip chemo again this week edition

 

I am gonna guess that the worst doctor this time will be Bloom. I'm only 5 seconds in, haven't seen her, but I am gonna guess it will be her.

 

max needs a maid badly, but at least he has a nanny?

 

um Iggy you should've talked to your husband about that hat immediately holy crap. Dr. Iggy's Husband, I have no idea what a 2120 is, since in NY, 2120 is a hold for typhoid, TB, or another communicable disease - https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PBH/2120

 

Max is just being regular pesky 5 minutes into the episode? That's a change for this season!

 

and of course something happens in the ER, will this turn into Max's crusade?

 

so with Iggy talking to those parents.... that guy literally thought he could bring his kid a notebook with a sharp object built into it? Wait, shouldn't they have been given a document saying "hey, you can't bring the kids this stuff, it's bad"

 

yaaay a chemical spill is the liquid from the ER

 

huh, max is acting like a normal hospital director

 

oh no is he going to go on a crusade against pesticides this episode? i mean nobody likes pesticides

 

um why wouldn't the organization that oversees New Amsterdam have a copy of that hazardous chemicals report?

 

hey look, Iggy's talking to a lawyer finally - and I am guessing it is New Amsterdam's lawyer. Good Iggy!

 

uhhh Reynolds irrigated that patient's eyes.... right? Since he just irrigated the wound

 

Max and The Sledgehammer is an epic quest of wall smashing, I bet that was fun for the actor. Max sure is good at tracing the pipes up multiple floors. um max if you have found the source of the chemical that you cannot smell or see you should run and tell someone, do not approach it

 

well that sweatshirt is gone....

max do not step in that stuff if you want to keep your feet

 

and of course max left his phone in the sweatshirt so he can't call anyone

 

that chemical is now on Max's crotch.... at least he already had a kid?

 

max, nobody else is on that floor that has re-elect nixon posters

 

sharpe, are you going to try to find the source of the leak? do doctors have some magical pipe tracing ability now

 

uhhh, Bloom, you need to be in that shower, you were the most exposed outside of stomach shears

 

how many disused or lesser used areas does this hospital have. first there was the elevator shaft Reynolds got stuck in, then there was that whole floor they changed to be a hospice ward (or they expanded it?), and now there's Max in the Nixon Ward!

 

max you are so dumb, holy crap - although this describes most episodes of this season tbh

 

huh, Iggy is doing a decent job this episode?

 

uh oh, Bloom is alone in the hallway, I bet she's gonna pass out and have a seizure just like stomach shears... nope, patient in distress and she can't see because she didn't go through the shower

 

good job Bloom, if this patient dies, it's totally on you.... Bloom are you really going to do this? is your proprioception that good that you trust you aren't gonna just murder the guy. uhhh i think you went a bit deep with that needle aaaand there we go, there's Bloom passing out

 

You think they'd have more people than Bloom and Bloom's Favorite Nurse overseeing all of that. Guess not at New Amsterdam?

 

so Sharpe got Max out, but why is the first floor abandoned, you think they'd have people all around to check people for exposure

 

hey look, two people are in the shower at the same time, that's what they should've done the entire time to get patients (or at least staff!) decontaminated

 

also, uhhh, I don't see a radiation tattoo on Max, guess they forgot about that?

 

um, now that Max is thoroughly deep cleaned, you should just rush him to the ICU to be put on everything...there we go, he's going to be put on all of the machines!

 

wait is that the same set as OB

 

sharpe, Reynolds knew to remove the shears because they were stuck in the patient

 

wow bloom you sure stretched far with an IV in your arm, those things don't normally have that much reach and Favorite Nurse is not on the same side as the bags o' fluid. wait, that IV stand looks like it is halfway across the room, what the hell

 

I thought the parent that said he keeps his gas tank full in case he can't take it anymore was going in a DAARK direction, but it's just abandoning his kid. I sure hope Iggy has told all of these parents they should be in therapy

 

so wait, outside of the window is the outside, it looks like a courtyard, so it's the first floor. I assume it is on the same floor as Iggy's Ward, so why would they have had to take an elevator to get out? I imagine all NYC hospitals have multiple exits based on the street they want to get out onto.

 

so did anyone call Max's in-laws, or does he just have Sharpe there, and why is he not hooked up to a pile of machines

 

max why are you caressing Sharpe's throat, that is a weird way to hit on someone

 

oh good, someone did call, but their first thing isn't "take our granddaughter to see her father" but "let's just bring her home to CT with us"

so this is definitely leading to a grandparents rights suit aaaaaaaaand there it is

wonder if them just stealing her like that counts as kidnapping when Max is in the hospital recovering from a workplace injury, especially since he is conscious and expressed that he was against it. They had custody of Luna for the day in Max's apartment, they don't have power of attorney (at least as far as we know - it would've made sense if they had one during COVID when Luna was in CT, though)

 

uh oh it's obsessive patient with the custody order. why does it say supreme court of the state of new york - it's the supreme court of new york city. why can't the writers just use google, it's easy

Huh... no big crusade for Max?

Well, the worst doctor this week is, surprisingly, the one I guessed at the start - Dr. Bloom!