S12.E24: Pluto; FlingGolf; FloatNGrill; The Original Stretchlace;

[JTMacc99]

Quote

 

Sharks: Mark, Kevin, Lori, Robert, Daniel

A customizable pillow designed for the users sleep system; An innovative stick (club) designed to play new sport on golf courses; A portable grill that uses grade-A float-tech to float on water and grill meat on sea for parties; A shoelace that switches your shoe from laced to slip-ons, for people on the go.

 

 

[CrazyInAlabama]

1. Pluto-Custom pillows.  Lousy margins.  Very competitive market space.   The sellers are very impressive.   Valuation of $8 million is way too high.   Robert is the only shark left.  Robert says $400k for 20% (the sellers wanted 4%).    No deal, just a lot of publicity. 

2. Fling Golf-A modified Lacrosse racket (or whatever it's called), in used like an overhand toss device for use on golf courses.   The sellers claim it's the next Snowboarding, and will be the hot new thing.  Daniel Lubetsky makes an offer, for 1/3. Robert offers $300K for 1/3.    The sellers counters at $300 for 25%, Daniel makes the deal.  (After the sellers leave, Kevin claims the club is the next pooper scooper.    It really looks like one). 

3. Float 'N' Grill-Just what it sounds like, a backyard grill on a raft (raft is solid, not blow up), decent capacity grill surface.    They've been doing a lot of social media, and been getting lots of views.    The heat source is a one pound propane tank.   $19,000 sales in the current year.  As always, it's always someone else's fault that they didn't succeed.  The sellers are getting a range of accessories for the grill.  Daniel wants to license it.   The one seller sounds like Kevin Jr, with royalty, loans, etc.   Daniel makes a deal with licensing, loan, etc. that I can't even understand.  (Some of the sandbar issue is that not all sandbars are above the surface of the water.   So for that a floating grill would work. 

4. The Original Stretch Lace-Turns any shoe with laces, into a easy to slip on shoe.      The wife worked running a $35 million dollar seller for Amazon in Health and Beauty.   (I'm not spending $10 to $14 for shoe laces, so I'm out) Robert offers $100k for 33%.     Robert makes the deal for 30%. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[mjc570]

There are a million of those shoe lace things - I'm wearing a pair right now.  I liked the couple, they were so low key.

I really liked the pillows, am thinking about getting one for myself, and if I liked it, would be good for presents for family members.  Impressive couple.

The golf thing was pretty gimmicky, and I can't imagine who would want golf balls being flung all around  Now, if the balls were like nerf balls or something.  I could see it more if they were setting up leagues and franchising it.

I'm not interested at all in the pool grill, because I just don't see the problem with having your grill poolside. 

[DEL901]

Those golf fling things have been around for years....to throw balls for dogs.    Also, I can’t think golf courses want a bunch of kids running around flinging balls.   And membership and course fees are expensive.   

And I used to like Daniel, but ever since he tried to take 100% of that woman’s invention, every time I see him, he irritates me more and more.  

[KaveDweller]

I feel like we missed something with the shoe lace people because the Sharks were all so negative about their product when it seemed like a good idea to me. And Robert was convinced the woman was some great business woman who could help his other companies and while she may be, I didn't see anything to suggest that. Working for a successful company doesn't mean she was personally responsible for the success. I liked her and her husband, I just don't get what Robert was so excited about.

I feel like grilling in your pool is dangerous somehow. What if the propane tank leaks into the pool? Did I miss anyone addressing that? Also, are people that lazy that they can't even get out of their pool to have dinner?

[LittleIggy]

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

I feel like we missed something with the shoe lace people because the Sharks were all so negative about their product when it seemed like a good idea to me. And Robert was convinced the woman was some great business woman who could help his other companies and while she may be, I didn't see anything to suggest that. Working for a successful company doesn't mean she was personally responsible for the success. I liked her and her husband, I just don't get what Robert was so excited about.

I feel like grilling in your pool is dangerous somehow. What if the propane tank leaks into the pool? Did I miss anyone addressing that? Also, are people that lazy that they can't even get out of their pool to have dinner?

I didn’t get it either. I don’t know why Robert was so impressed with her, based on the info we the viewers received.

As for the grill, I thought they were pitching it for camping or rafting trips. Grilling in the pool would be stupid.

Edited May 15, 2021 by LittleIggy

[Vermicious Knid]

I was curious and went to the Pluto website. It asks for a bunch of personal information and then it's supposed to advance to the pillow questions but didn't actually have a next button or arrow, so major fail. Also not paying $95 for one pillow.

I keep my sneakers tied and slip my feet in and out all the time. Have to re-tie maybe twice year.

[KHenry14]

A floating grill is about the dumbest idea ever to be on Shark Tank.....and thats a pretty high bar to reach!

[Msample]

Man they are really scraping the bottom of the barrel for pitches at this point in the season. Some of the shark commentary seems to be directed more at the producers as if to say " is this the best you've got ??"  , like when they call the poor woman "the cockroach of shoelaces". 

The laces seem overpriced and for anything other than casual shoes, non functional. You need laces tied tight that won't budge for athletic/active footwear for instance. 

The floating grill is a solution in search of a problem. Grills that clip on the side of the boat that hang over the water have been around for years. And if any sort of wave/wake hits that thing, see ya. I will give them credit for a counter offer as intricate and well thought out as any I've seen before. 

The pillow ? Meh. Esp given the price. 

The sling golf thing was mildly interesting. I think they underplayed the potential to sell to resorts, but I think its still a limited market. And I question how legit it is accepted at mainstream golf courses . 

[hula-la]

Everyone complaining about the floating grill, you are obviously not part of the sandbar community (neither am I). 

[lh25]

2 hours ago, hula-la said:

Everyone complaining about the floating grill, you are obviously not part of the sandbar community (neither am I). 

I'm clearly not.  I didn't get how this would make sandbar life better, maybe I don't get it.  To me, a sandbar is something that sticks out of water, like in the middle of a river.  A small island really.  So, why not use portable grill with legs on it?  To use this, you'd have to go out in the water.

And just getting a lot of likes on a social media video doesn't mean all those people want to buy your product.

 

[theatremouse]

18 hours ago, mjc570 said:

I'm not interested at all in the pool grill, because I just don't see the problem with having your grill poolside. 

He said he got the idea after he bought a boat. So I think the point is go to the middle of the lake or something, then grill. It's stupid, but not for swimming pools.

[Cotypubby]

None of the Sharks brought up what to me was the most obvious problem with the pillow: You still can’t try it out. “People don’t like to try out pillows in the store so here’s a way to buy them online with out ever even feeling them!” You’d still need to know the same exact info you’d need in store, do you like soft or hard pillows, and foam or filled, and for the low low price of $95 you can get one without even know what it feels like! 

[heatherchandler]

23 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I feel like we missed something with the shoe lace people because the Sharks were all so negative about their product when it seemed like a good idea to me.

I liked the idea so much I went online and bought a pair for my 8 year old son!  It’s for his sneakers, he has wide feet and it takes him forever to tie  his laces.  This way he will be able to slip them on.  I’m excited fi get them.

 

9 hours ago, lh25 said:

I'm clearly not.  I didn't get how this would make sandbar life better, maybe I don't get it.  To me, a sandbar is something that sticks out of water, like in the middle of a river.  A small island really.  So, why not use portable grill with legs on it?  To use this, you'd have to go out in the water.

And just getting a lot of likes on a social media video doesn't mean all those people want to buy your product.

 

I’m not part of the “sandbar community” but I’ve hung out at the sandbar in Miami (off Miami?) and it’s not raised out of the water, it’s just like a shallow area for boats and people to congregate.  I can absolutely see this grill being used out there.  

[bilgistic]

I don't understand the floating grill at all. Won't you also need a floating cooler with the burger fixins? And another one with your drinks? And a floating rope to tie them all together and to you and your life jacket as you're out in the middle of a lake.

Or you could just eat on land.

Daniel really likes going into business with dudebros.

[eel21788]

On 5/14/2021 at 8:14 PM, mjc570 said:

There are a million of those shoe lace things - I'm wearing a pair right now. 

Yet, they said they had no competitors. I do remember something similar from late last century, I think. 

[eel21788]

14 hours ago, Msample said:

Man they are really scraping the bottom of the barrel for pitches at this point in the season. Some of the shark commentary seems to be directed more at the producers as if to say " is this the best you've got ??" 

I don't know why the producers are allowing people on to the show with these ridiculous valuations. 

The grill people offered the most reasonable equity, yet they were valuing their company at $1 million when they had only sold 82 units to date. "But. . . but. . . but. . . see how many people have watched our youtube video."  Why were they thinking that the number of views somehow equals sales?

15 hours ago, Msample said:

The floating grill is a solution in search of a problem. Grills that clip on the side of the boat that hang over the water have been around for years. And if any sort of wave/wake hits that thing, see ya.

How do you keep it from floating away while you're trying to grill on it? Also, how many grills does each sandbar need?

15 hours ago, Msample said:

 

I will give them credit for a counter offer as intricate and well thought out as any I've seen before. 

 

However, they weren't going to budge on their valuation which was idiotic.

[eel21788]

On 5/14/2021 at 7:00 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

1. Pluto-Custom pillows.  Lousy margins.  Very competitive market space.   The sellers are very impressive.   Valuation of $8 million is way too high.   Robert is the only shark left.  Robert says $400k for 20% (the sellers wanted 4%).    No deal, just a lot of publicity.  

Again, why are people with such moronic valuations even allowed on the show? Robert's offer was more than generous. $400K for 40% would have still put their valuation above where it should have been. If you're after 4% and have no intention of going any higher, don't bother coming on the show. 

I've also bought pretty much every pillow on the market that has claimed it will help my neck pain. I have yet to find one that actually does what it says it will. 

[eel21788]

23 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

I was curious and went to the Pluto website. It asks for a bunch of personal information and then it's supposed to advance to the pillow questions but didn't actually have a next button or arrow, so major fail. Also not paying $95 for one pillow.

Once they get your name, age and email address from you, the questions are: 1) how tall are you (it doesn't let you enter 1/2 or 1/4 inches; you need to either round up or down) 2) how much you weigh 3) what your current pillow is filled with, but only 4 choices latex, foam, filled or other/don't know (no place to enter feathers) 4) then it asks the Goldilocks questions: too hard, too soft or just right; too high, too low or just right, etc. 5) whether your head is hot when you sleep 6) what position do you fall asleep in 7) what position do you wake up in 8) choose your preference of  "plushy" or "supportive" (no other choices) 9) optional add narrative text if there is anything else you want to tell them (what would they do if I said I still wanted a feather pillow?)

Then you get some cute graphics and: 

Will I be able to see my exact pillow?

Once you complete the questionnaire, your data runs through our algorithm that generates your best variation back to us and helps us create a pillow for your unique sleep profile. However, since all of our pillows are made-to-order, there’s still a human element where we make sure your additional optional requests are taken into account before creating the final product (rather than just thickness or firmness).

In other words, the item that appears in your cart is just a placeholder

Under FAQs:

Ouch, I suffer from neck and/or back pain. Can you help?

While our pillows are optimized to each customer’s sleep profile for comfort, we can’t (and wouldn’t want to) make any medical or health claims. Although nothing makes us happier than reading reviews from customers who say they no longer have pain, we strongly believe the most important step is to consult with your doctor for long term relief.

Also in FAQs: Only the cover is washable. Don't wash the foam center.

I'm so glad I didn't give them my real email address!

Edited May 16, 2021 by eel21788

[theatremouse]

10 hours ago, eel21788 said:

Yet, they said they had no competitors. I do remember something similar from late last century, I think. 

I think they were probably being kind of pedantic. I am aware of many many many laces that turn shoes into slip-ons, but the premise of all (except theirs) that I've seen is there is nothing to tie with those other laces. These people had stretchy laces that require tying. I don't know how that makes them better, or how it translates to "no competitors" since it's clearly still the same pitch, but I suspect if the sharks had called them out, that would've been their explanation.

[seacliffsal]

I really wonder if Pluto's pillows ARE made to order or if they, like other pillow companies, have inventory of limited types of pillows and are using some smoke and mirrors to convince their consumers that this is the one, exact, perfect pillow for them.  Eh.  I will still go to the department store to find one I like-and on sale!

Float and Grill-when I had a boat and we went out for several hours, I would just pack some food and drinks and go.  Like an above poster, I only see having to take even more coolers and supplies on the boat in order to grill.  I think it might be fun once or twice, but way too much work to do a lot of times.  Just take some food and drinks and relax.  They were way too impressed with their viral video.  Hey, I like all kinds of videos, but that doesn't mean I want to buy/do/go whatever the focus of a video is-I just like to watch them.

Shoelace company?  I think what impressed Robert was that the woman understood how to optimize a product's presence on Amazon.  IMO that's what he meant when he said she could help his other businesses.  That could actually really help, or not.

As much as I tend to not really care for Lori, I have to admit that I was right there with her regarding Fling Golf.  Who would want to be on a course with all kinds of people just flinging golf balls?  Golfers try to get as close to the hole as possible (that's the extent of my knowledge of golf) while I could see real issues of lack of control or not even caring with Fling Golf.  

Like others, my main issues with the show are the decline in the uniqueness/usefulness of products and the crazy valuations that presenters put on their products.  It's becoming more and more unusual that a valuation actually makes sense or that presenters actually realize how small their sales are in comparison to the value they place on their products.  Sigh.

[Msample]

I thought Lori‘s concern over fling golf was overblown. “Real” golfers can hit errant shots just as easily .

[KaveDweller]

14 hours ago, eel21788 said:

I don't know why the producers are allowing people on to the show with these ridiculous valuations. 

The grill people offered the most reasonable equity, yet they were valuing their company at $1 million when they had only sold 82 units to date. "But. . . but. . . but. . . see how many people have watched our youtube video."  Why were they thinking that the number of views somehow equals sales?

If anything, the high number of people watching their video was worse for them. It showed that there were that many people who chose not to buy the product.

If no one had seen the video, at least they could argue that they just haven't gotten the word out yet.

[eel21788]

3 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

If anything, the high number of people watching their video was worse for them. It showed that there were that many people who chose not to buy the product.

If no one had seen the video, at least they could argue that they just haven't gotten the word out yet.

I can also see the argument that people keep watching the video for the shear stupidity of it. 

[eel21788]

3 hours ago, Msample said:

I thought Lori‘s concern over fling golf was overblown. “Real” golfers can hit errant shots just as easily .

They also claimed that it was more accurate than hitting a golf ball. I would think there would be a learning curve no matter which method you were using.

[seacliffsal]

Frisbee Golf was a new take on golf.  People enjoy it and have fun with it.  However, most of the frisbee golf I have seen or noticed has been set up in parks and other areas not necessarily associated with golf courses.  I think that getting most golf courses to accept Fling Golf will be far more difficult than they presented (and no, just because someone stocks Kind Bars in the shop does not mean they will immediately allow Fling Golf on the course [that was a really tenuous connection that Daniel tried to make-oh along with how many golfer wear the "kind colors" as they love the product so much...]).

[TM101]

No one is going to be running around a golf course flinging balls and people don’t usually have their little kids tag along on a nice golf day. Two ways it could maybe work is pivot to the mini golf route and try and license it out to those courses. Could be a fun alternative to choose using the Fling than spending hours waiting for your kid try to hit a golf ball. Other is make it into a backyard game somehow. I’m surprised no one mentioned this but there is that backyard game called Ladder Golf. Could be an interesting play for a Fling Golf and fling it into a hole. I don’t know but the fact they thought it was the next sport is laughable.

Float on a Grill thing..I was actually surprised how little their sales were. I think the product is gimmicky at best but was expecting it to be one of those ridiculous products that crush it. I don’t see getting out of the pool to cook or eat an actual problem. Is there marketing pitch to have people cooking in the water and serving people out of the pool or what? Where’s the buns, condiments, etc then? I guess it’s a gimmicky bro product that can maybe sell.

Shoe lace thing..$14 for a pair of laces is asinine. And talk about overblowing someone’s past work experience. She was a manager. Sounds like she wasn’t some Chief Strategy person or what not.

Edited May 17, 2021 by TM101

[TM101]

6 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

Frisbee Golf was a new take on golf.  People enjoy it and have fun with it.  However, most of the frisbee golf I have seen or noticed has been set up in parks and other areas not necessarily associated with golf courses.  I think that getting most golf courses to accept Fling Golf will be far more difficult than they presented (and no, just because someone stocks Kind Bars in the shop does not mean they will immediately allow Fling Golf on the course [that was a really tenuous connection that Daniel tried to make-oh along with how many golfer wear the "kind colors" as they love the product so much...]).

The Kind Bar connection was ridiculous. I’m not doubting that Daniel has connections but his bars are likely stocked in golf course souvenir shops where gum is, not plastered all over walls.

And do people still eat Kind Bars with the saturated protein/vegan/nutrition bars market? Haven’t had one since like 2010. 

[bilgistic]

We eat the original version Kind bars because they're made with real nuts and chocolate (so they satisfy a craving) and not a bunch of weird chalky shit like some of the energy bars are. And it's easy portion control for me, because if I get a jar of nuts, I'll eat half of them in one sitting.

[Tango64]

On 5/16/2021 at 10:25 AM, theatremouse said:

I think they were probably being kind of pedantic. I am aware of many many many laces that turn shoes into slip-ons, but the premise of all (except theirs) that I've seen is there is nothing to tie with those other laces. These people had stretchy laces that require tying. I don't know how that makes them better, or how it translates to "no competitors" since it's clearly still the same pitch, but I suspect if the sharks had called them out, that would've been their explanation.

This is an old trick that people use on Shark Tank and it sometimes makes the Sharks look like idiots. A Shark will ask, "Who are your competitors?" and the inventor responds with "Oh, there is nothing on the market exactly like this!" Not exactly like this. So they're not lying. But there are competing products that are essentially the same and the difference in the new product is meaningless. Sharks look like idiots when they fall for this. 

The one I remember best is a couple guys who developed marsh camouflage for duck hunting gear, derived from their own photographs of actual marsh land near their home. It looked good, but a Shark asked if there was anything like that on the market already. They responded with "Nooooo, nothing like this. This is entirely new, made with our own photographs..." 

Of course, none of the Sharks has ever walked into a Cabela's and seen all the marsh camouflage gear that looks exactly like what those guys were selling as unique. So they thought these guys had invented marsh camouflage gear, and I think they got a deal.

[eel21788]

On 5/15/2021 at 8:26 PM, Cotypubby said:

None of the Sharks brought up what to me was the most obvious problem with the pillow: You still can’t try it out. “People don’t like to try out pillows in the store so here’s a way to buy them online with out ever even feeling them!” You’d still need to know the same exact info you’d need in store, do you like soft or hard pillows, and foam or filled, and for the low low price of $95 you can get one without even know what it feels like! 

They let you use it for 100 days then full refund if you're not satisfied. The website doesn't say who pays the return shipping costs.

[KaveDweller]

3 hours ago, eel21788 said:

They let you use it for 100 days then full refund if you're not satisfied. The website doesn't say who pays the return shipping costs.

I wonder what they do with all the returned pillows. You can't exactly resell that.

[Moose135]

On 5/16/2021 at 11:13 PM, bilgistic said:

And it's easy portion control for me, because if I get a jar of nuts, I'll eat half of them in one sitting.

You can stop at half?

[bilgistic]

7 hours ago, Moose135 said:

You can stop at half?

Not if they're Emerald Nuts' candied pecans. RIP to that bag.

[jabRI]

Unless I've already tried them on in the store, or it's a repeat sale, shoes and pillows are something I could never buy without trying. I agree with the sharks, their 'algorithm' sounds kinda shaky/shady.  And no way I'd pay $25 for shipping unless it was a couch or something.

[LuvMyShows]

48 minutes ago, jabRI said:

Unless I've already tried them on in the store, or it's a repeat sale, shoes and pillows are something I could never buy without trying. I agree with the sharks, their 'algorithm' sounds kinda shaky/shady.  And no way I'd pay $25 for shipping unless it was a couch or something.

I think the shipping for the pillow was $18 and I absolutely cannot figure out how on earth it could be that expensive.  I'm right with whichever shark said that too many people have algorithms that don't actually do much.  When she was explaining what it did, it just sounded like random jargon words thrown together.  And given the limited number of actual options to combine in the pillows, I don't see why an algorithm is even needed.

[Msample]

53 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

I think the shipping for the pillow was $18 and I absolutely cannot figure out how on earth it could be that expensive.  I'm right with whichever shark said that too many people have algorithms that don't actually do much.  When she was explaining what it did, it just sounded like random jargon words thrown together.  And given the limited number of actual options to combine in the pillows, I don't see why an algorithm is even needed.

Have you tried shipping a package recently? Shipping costs are through the roof.

[DEL901]

The lace thingy is so not original and way too expensive.   Here is a competitor.   $9 each pair or 6 for $35

Laces competition