S10.E03: Episode 3

[AZChristian]

20 minutes ago, dsteele said:

Verily, I must offer my obsequious concurrence with your declaration. I so quickly tire of her meandering verbosity. 💤 

Read this to my husband, and he laughed out loud.  Well done!!!!

ETA:  The name of the show is "Call the Midwife," not "Tend the Annoying and Demanding Nun Who Does Nothing To Help."

Edited October 19, 2021 by AZChristian

[dsteele]

Aw, shucks. Thanks! <blushes> I ain't usually so good with them fancy words. 

[EllaWycliffe]

I'm torn on Sister Monica Joan. I get frustrated with the storyline but I will also be sad when she finally buys it.

Maybe if they just had her be more recurring, I'd be better, but so far, her storyline of being sad has been prominent. Did Sister Super Young even speak in this last episode? Can't the Turners be bitchy with each other and then find out that Shelagh's bitchy menopause is actually a new baby? Maybe Trixie could finally get a man? There's no reason we have to deal with SMJ's ongoing issues about feeling old.

[Suzn]

16 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I'm torn on Sister Monica Joan. I get frustrated with the storyline but I will also be sad when she finally buys it.

Maybe if they just had her be more recurring, I'd be better, but so far, her storyline of being sad has been prominent. Did Sister Super Young even speak in this last episode? Can't the Turners be bitchy with each other and then find out that Shelagh's bitchy menopause is actually a new baby? Maybe Trixie could finally get a man? There's no reason we have to deal with SMJ's ongoing issues about feeling old.

Exactly!  This is the main problem I have with her.  There are other characters that get short shrift so that we can focus on SMJ again and again.  If they can't let go of the character, keep her in the background and just make a comment occasionally on whatever is going on.

[Clanstarling]

On 10/17/2021 at 7:10 PM, Dehumidifier said:

Could really live without those self back patting interviews after the episode.

I deal with them by not watching them.

On 10/17/2021 at 9:28 PM, LittleIggy said:

My medical degree from watching TV paid off today! I diagnosed both the gestational diabetes and the Munchausen Syndrome. 😁 

I like Sister Monica Joan, but she was a real bitch to that nice young priest. 
Lucille and Cyril are so freaking boring.😴

Having had GD with both my pregnancies, I caught that as well. The three hour test is a bitch. Both of mine were small though, choosing to arrive early.

On 10/17/2021 at 9:54 PM, susannah said:

I don't think she was a bitch at all. He was being extremely patronizing to her, talking sooo slowly and enunciating every syllable like she was brainless and deaf, and I was glad she let him have it.  Lucille and Cyril passed boring a while back. I think they should market them as sleep aids.

I was too. I don't think he was intentionally patronizing, just young.

Here's the thing about old people (being one myself) we're just people. Speak to us with the same respect, or manner, that you'd talk to anybody. If we're difficult (excepting cognitive issues) then it's because we were always difficult.

On 10/18/2021 at 8:57 AM, EllaWycliffe said:

 

 

17 hours ago, Blackie said:

 

Sorry about the blank quotes couldn't figure out how to delete them on my cell.

[susannah]

4 hours ago, dsteele said:

Verily, I must offer my obsequious concurrence with your declaration. I so quickly tire of her meandering verbosity. 💤 

For the win!

[susannah]

5 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

But he didn't complain at all, and was actively trying to pretend he was totally pleased with his bad room. And Sister Julienne didn't impress me with the disgusted look when he was actually trying to offer something to her. I get that it's not the nuns problem that he took the same vow of poverty and obedience that he did but under that assumption, would we want Sister Julienne treated like an unwanted guest and expected to pay with real money when all she has to offer is service?

I get what you're saying, I just don't recall the young priest being ungrateful at all. He seemed to be trying really hard to be nice about the whole business.

I get what you're saying too, but it's just difference of viewpoint.  I could understand Sr Julienne's frustration, when they had zero money and were handed another mouth to feed. It didn't seem to me that his idea of "helping" was helpful. If he couldn't chip in any money, he could have given of himself in a way that would have been useful. I am reminded of something I heard once.."when you want to help someone, help in the ways that are needed, not in the ways you want to."

[MartyQui]

2 hours ago, susannah said:

I get what you're saying too, but it's just difference of viewpoint.  I could understand Sr Julienne's frustration, when they had zero money and were handed another mouth to feed. It didn't seem to me that his idea of "helping" was helpful. If he couldn't chip in any money, he could have given of himself in a way that would have been useful.

I don't think it would have occurred to him that feeding him was an expense that they couldn't afford.

[Cetacean]

6 minutes ago, MartyQui said:

I don't think it would have occurred to him that feeding him was an expense that they couldn't afford.

I imagine that there are many young clerics who, in their zeal to spread the word of their god, don't even give a second thought to anything outside their enthusiasm.  After all, why wouldn't anyone be overjoyed to help out someone with sucg pure religious intentions?  They have not a clue about the real world.  I think that Sr. J just 

We've seen this with the midwives to a point.  Some of them came with the pure intentions of "helping" only to find that life is pretty dismal in a lot of places and their "help" was not exactly welcomed.  Jenny, for one, really got a slap in the face when she first came aboard in the first season.  It's not all happy little newborns in Poplar.  Things can be really, really awful.

[susannah]

10 minutes ago, Cetacean said:

I imagine that there are many young clerics who, in their zeal to spread the word of their god, don't even give a second thought to anything outside their enthusiasm.  After all, why wouldn't anyone be overjoyed to help out someone with sucg pure religious intentions?  They have not a clue about the real world.  I think that Sr. J just 

We've seen this with the midwives to a point.  Some of them came with the pure intentions of "helping" only to find that life is pretty dismal in a lot of places and their "help" was not exactly welcomed.  Jenny, for one, really got a slap in the face when she first came aboard in the first season.  It's not all happy little newborns in Poplar.  Things can be really, really awful.

Good point. Big difference with the nuns, whether they grew up poor like Sr Evangelina, or wealthy like Sr MJ, they saw and helped people in the worst conditions. Of course, the difference was IMO that that was their vocation, and with the midwives, it's a job. Jenny was the only one I can think of who was shown to have problems with the filth and squalor, but that would take getting used to for anyone. I would think it would have been harder for Trixie, the "cover girl," but in the episode where they found the children abandoned in the filthy house, she was right in there cleaning them, dealing with their lice, etc.

[caitmcg]

2 hours ago, susannah said:

Good point. Big difference with the nuns, whether they grew up poor like Sr Evangelina, or wealthy like Sr MJ, they saw and helped people in the worst conditions. Of course, the difference was IMO that that was their vocation, and with the midwives, it's a job. Jenny was the only one I can think of who was shown to have problems with the filth and squalor, but that would take getting used to for anyone. I would think it would have been harder for Trixie, the "cover girl," but in the episode where they found the children abandoned in the filthy house, she was right in there cleaning them, dealing with their lice, etc.

I think it was just an attitude difference. Trixie didn’t have the easiest childhood, however she presents herself to the world. And Chummy grew up the poshest, but had no issue dealing compassionately and professionally with the situations she encountered in Poplar. Jenny was a bit of a snob about it until she straightened herself out.

[EllaWycliffe]

8 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Here's the thing about old people (being one myself) we're just people. Speak to us with the same respect, or manner, that you'd talk to anybody. If we're difficult (excepting cognitive issues) then it's because we were always difficult.

And this is the problem with the Sister Monica Joan types - because they do exist in the real world. I'm sorry, but I deal with elderly people in my work and I sometimes want to pull my hair out and or slap them up. You can't and shouldn't treat them like children but they often ACT like children and then get angry and threatening when you don't wipe away their errors in judgement with a "welll, you're over sixty five so you're still competant to make decisions but when you hand out your credit card to every idiot who asks for it or who tells you to buy gift cards, we have to treat you respectfully even though you did something fucking stupid... but we address the possible dementia etc, we're also being insulting BUT we're also assholes for holding you accountable for the poor decisions that customers ten years younger are also on the hook for." Sister Monica Joan is "off with the fairies" when she doesn't want to get into trouble... but while she can't be trusted with tasks unsupervised, she also wants to be treated as though she is perfectly fine. She was probably always kind of selfish this way.

[Sarah 103]

3 hours ago, susannah said:

Big difference with the nuns, whether they grew up poor like Sr Evangelina, or wealthy like Sr MJ, they saw and helped people in the worst conditions. Of course, the difference was IMO that that was their vocation, and with the midwives, it's a job. Jenny was the only one I can think of who was shown to have problems with the filth and squalor, but that would take getting used to for anyone. I would think it would have been harder for Trixie, the "cover girl," but in the episode where they found the children abandoned in the filthy house, she was right in there cleaning them, dealing with their lice, etc.

I agree. Something that that nuns and midwives share is thier desire to be midwives/medical professionals. The nuns selected an order that would put them in day to day contact with ordinary, regular people as opposed to cloistered in a convent away from the secular world.  

[susannah]

1 hour ago, EllaWycliffe said:

And this is the problem with the Sister Monica Joan types - because they do exist in the real world. I'm sorry, but I deal with elderly people in my work and I sometimes want to pull my hair out and or slap them up. You can't and shouldn't treat them like children but they often ACT like children and then get angry and threatening when you don't wipe away their errors in judgement with a "welll, you're over sixty five so you're still competant to make decisions but when you hand out your credit card to every idiot who asks for it or who tells you to buy gift cards, we have to treat you respectfully even though you did something fucking stupid... but we address the possible dementia etc, we're also being insulting BUT we're also assholes for holding you accountable for the poor decisions that customers ten years younger are also on the hook for." Sister Monica Joan is "off with the fairies" when she doesn't want to get into trouble... but while she can't be trusted with tasks unsupervised, she also wants to be treated as though she is perfectly fine. She was probably always kind of selfish this way.

You can't win, can you!

[susannah]

1 hour ago, caitmcg said:

I think it was just an attitude difference. Trixie didn’t have the easiest childhood, however she presents herself to the world. And Chummy grew up the poshest, but had no issue dealing compassionately and professionally with the situations she encountered in Poplar. Jenny was a bit of a snob about it until she straightened herself out.

I felt so sorry for Chummy, the way her mother just sent her off to boarding school and forgot she existed. How lonely and sad that had to be for Chummy, and then when she did see her mother, she just was told again and again that she was not the daughter her mother wanted and it was her fault. The scenes where Chummy had to help her mother die, while still feeling resentment for her and guilt for feeling resentful, were heartbreaking. Miranda Hart was excellent as Chummy. I agree, she was very compassionate and professional with her patients.

[EllaWycliffe]

1 hour ago, susannah said:

You can't win, can you!

Its honestly why I lose patience with Sister Monica Joan, because she's there enough to manipulate and get her away on things but off enough that she can't be trusted alone... and throws down the pitiful card when anyone is firm with her about her obvious failings. Its not fun to deal with in real life. 

[susannah]

1 hour ago, EllaWycliffe said:

Its honestly why I lose patience with Sister Monica Joan, because she's there enough to manipulate and get her away on things but off enough that she can't be trusted alone... and throws down the pitiful card when anyone is firm with her about her obvious failings. Its not fun to deal with in real life. 

I agree, and I am sure it isn't. Sometimes I just see Sr Julienne's words on what she really thinks about SrMJ's manipulations of everyone's feelings and actions, trying to burst right out of her head, and I wish just once she would call MJ out on it, good and proper. It would make her seem less saintly and more human, with human feelings. Boy do I miss Sr Evangelina!

[JudyObscure]

And here's me wishing she'd be more saintly and not so angry all the time. 😉

I thought Sister Julienne did look disgusted when he offered to say a mass for them and I was a little dissapointed in her for that.  They're nuns!  They need a priest to officiate mass and I would have thought, particularly in their time of worry, they would be happy for that.  As John Wesley said, "It's through the Lord's supper that we receive Grace."  It might have been nice if Sister Julienne had credited  some of the solving of  their current problems to the prayers said during that mass. 

I think the writers have neglected the religious side of things since they left the autobiography and started writing from scratch.  The shows I loved best in the early years were the ones centered around Shelagh's decision to leave the  order and other "nun stuff." But that's just me,  I may be the only one interested in Sister Monica Jones crisis of faith.

[Badger]

Here's a video showing how one show handled a kissing scene

 

[Clanstarling]

12 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

And this is the problem with the Sister Monica Joan types - because they do exist in the real world. I'm sorry, but I deal with elderly people in my work and I sometimes want to pull my hair out and or slap them up. You can't and shouldn't treat them like children but they often ACT like children and then get angry and threatening when you don't wipe away their errors in judgement with a "welll, you're over sixty five so you're still competant to make decisions but when you hand out your credit card to every idiot who asks for it or who tells you to buy gift cards, we have to treat you respectfully even though you did something fucking stupid... but we address the possible dementia etc, we're also being insulting BUT we're also assholes for holding you accountable for the poor decisions that customers ten years younger are also on the hook for." Sister Monica Joan is "off with the fairies" when she doesn't want to get into trouble... but while she can't be trusted with tasks unsupervised, she also wants to be treated as though she is perfectly fine. She was probably always kind of selfish this way.

That's fair. And that sounds very frustrating. Patience is really difficult in your situation.

My point still stands, if they are idiots at 65 (my age) then they were idiots when they were younger (barring cognitive issues). My daughter, who is a customer service rep for a company, deals with many people who are similarly idiotic and all are much younger than I am.

[susannah]

31 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

That's fair. And that sounds very frustrating. Patience is really difficult in your situation.

My point still stands, if they are idiots at 65 (my age) then they were idiots when they were younger (barring cognitive issues). My daughter, who is a customer service rep for a company, deals with many people who are similarly idiotic and all are much younger than I am.

I used to work at a call center in customer service. It is a horrible job. The abuse and stupidity we had to put up with, or anyone in the business, was mind boggling.

[Daff]

On 10/19/2021 at 10:24 AM, dsteele said:

Verily, I must offer my obsequious concurrence with your declaration. I so quickly tire of her meandering verbosity. 💤 

I heartily appreciate the spot-on imitation, if not the sentiment!

[Daff]

On 10/19/2021 at 12:31 PM, Clanstarling said:

On 10/17/2021 at 10:10 PM, Dehumidifier said:

 

I deal with them by not watching them.

On my local PBS, they’ve shown the same set of cast interviews 3 weeks in a row now. Nothing new. Why would they do that?

edit: (nearly one week later) and…it’s the same add-on, “The Cast Talks About Season 10”. Must be they will only offer new snippets if you pay for passport (or buy the DVD). 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Daff

[Daff]

6 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

And here's me wishing she'd be more saintly and not so angry all the time. 😉

I thought Sister Julienne did look disgusted when he offered to say a mass for them and I was a little dissapointed in her for that.  They're nuns!  They need a priest to officiate mass and I would have thought, particularly in their time of worry, they would be happy for that.  As John Wesley said, "It's through the Lord's supper that we receive Grace."  It might have been nice if Sister Julienne had credited  some of the solving of  their current problems to the prayers said during that mass. 

I think the writers have neglected the religious side of things since they left the autobiography and started writing from scratch.  The shows I loved best in the early years were the ones centered around Shelagh's decision to leave the  order and other "nun stuff." But that's just me,  I may be the only one interested in Sister Monica Jones crisis of faith.

No, you’re not the only one. She’s constantly struggled with her sins (she knows darned well she shouldn’t take the last cookie or piece of cake, but in the moment she can’t help herself). Pride and vanity seem to cover the various behaviors, and she’s well aware. It would be interesting to have a new midwife who had some education in psychology-to challenge her and ask the hard questions. (That idea-REALLY not popular here, I know.)

[cinsays]

On 10/20/2021 at 7:57 AM, JudyObscure said:

I think the writers have neglected the religious side of things since they left the autobiography and started writing from scratch.  The shows I loved best in the early years were the ones centered around Shelagh's decision to leave the  order and other "nun stuff." But that's just me,  I may be the only one interested in Sister Monica Jones crisis of faith.

No, you're not alone.  I am with you on these issues being of great interest.

[dubbel zout]

I remember watching "The Nun's Story" with Audrey Hepburn and being amazed afterward at how completely engrossed I was for the entire 2-1/2 hours, and I'm not religious AT ALL.

I'm sorry I missed those early seasons, because I think I'd have liked seeing Shelagh's struggles. 

[caitmcg]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

I'm sorry I missed those early seasons, because I think I'd have liked seeing Shelagh's struggles. 

The whole series is available on Netflix, if you want to go back to the early seasons.

[CoE123]

On 10/18/2021 at 10:55 PM, EllaWycliffe said:

Its not always that simple in the religious world. For starters, he takes a vow of poverty and may not have the cash to seek lodgings elsewhere. He also may not have a choice, it may be "you're between postings and the sisters at Nonnatus have a spare room so go". 

Coming in late here and waving hallo to everyone as a new poster. I've been reading the posts here with great enjoyment. :) 

But, no, to the above.  Church of England curates and vicars do not have to take a vow of poverty.  For that matter, neither do Catholic Diocesan priests have to make vows of poverty. Those are only required for monastic orders, including the C of E Nonnatus nuns.   

Mind you, your average parish priest whether C of E or Catholic might as well take a vow of poverty;  the base pay these days for both denominations is pretty darn low, although they do get housing as part of their compensation.  However, some have other sources of income and they don't have to forfeit that to become a vicar or parish priest .

I felt sorry for that young curate although I enjoyed Sister MJ's take-down of him.  It made me laugh.  As someone else said above, he needs to learn to deal with cantankerous old bats like her if he is going to grow up to be a vicar.  Also, in a disadvantaged parish like Poplar, he would be living on a tiny stipend but would be entitled to accommodation provided be the parish.  It is the vicar who is responsible for landing the poor chap on Nonnatus House.  The sisters should have taken any issue up with him, not the very clumsy but well-meaning curate.

To clarify, historically there was huge inequity in what C of E priests (let alone curates who are at the bottom of the heap) were paid.  If you think of Jane Austen novels, you have a few vicars, appointed by the diocese to a parish, a scattering of rectors, appointed by some local aristocrat to a "living" in their control, and a few put-upon curates.  Some of them were wealthy, especially those rectors appointed by their rich relatives to prosperous parishes where they could collect tithes.  Think of the appalling Mr. Collins in Pride and Prejudice.  He was all set to inherit the Bennet property because it was entailed to male heirs.  With the aristocratic families, the oldest son inherited the title, and the younger sons usually joined the army or entered the church and took over the living when it became vacant.   Vicars in rich parishes, unlike Poplar, could also make a decent salary.  

It wasn't until sometime in the very late 1960s or early 70s (I can't remember exactly when) all this was changed and salaries for clergy were standardized across the board by the C of E.  

Edited November 4, 2021 by CoE123

[Rootbeer]

On 11/4/2021 at 2:19 PM, CoE123 said:

Coming in late here and waving hallo to everyone as a new poster. I've been reading the posts here with great enjoyment. :) 

But, no, to the above.  Church of England curates and vicars do not have to take a vow of poverty.  For that matter, neither do Catholic Diocesan priests have to make vows of poverty. Those are only required for monastic orders, including the C of E Nonnatus nuns.   

Mind you, your average parish priest whether C of E or Catholic might as well take a vow of poverty;  the base pay these days for both denominations is pretty darn low, although they do get housing as part of their compensation.  However, some have other sources of income and they don't have to forfeit that to become a vicar or parish priest .

I felt sorry for that young curate although I enjoyed Sister MJ's take-down of him.  It made me laugh.  As someone else said above, he needs to learn to deal with cantankerous old bats like her if he is going to grow up to be a vicar.  Also, in a disadvantaged parish like Poplar, he would be living on a tiny stipend but would be entitled to accommodation provided be the parish.  It is the vicar who is responsible for landing the poor chap on Nonnatus House.  The sisters should have taken any issue up with him, not the very clumsy but well-meaning curate.

To clarify, historically there was huge inequity in what C of E priests (let alone curates who are at the bottom of the heap) were paid.  If you think of Jane Austen novels, you have a few vicars, appointed by the diocese to a parish, a scattering of rectors, appointed by some local aristocrat to a "living" in their control, and a few put-upon curates.  Some of them were wealthy, especially those rectors appointed by their rich relatives to prosperous parishes where they could collect tithes.  Think of the appalling Mr. Collins in Pride and Prejudice.  He was all set to inherit the Bennet property because it was entailed to male heirs.  With the aristocratic families, the oldest son inherited the title, and the younger sons usually joined the army or entered the church and took over the living when it became vacant.   Vicars in rich parishes, unlike Poplar, could also make a decent salary.  

It wasn't until sometime in the very late 1960s or early 70s (I can't remember exactly when) all this was changed and salaries for clergy were standardized across the board by the C of E.  

You're correct, Catholic priests and Church of England clergy do not usually take vows of poverty.  Most of them live pretty simply but many have money that they've inherited from parents or grandparents or own properties, etc and they are not required to forfeit them as part of their vows.  I had a friend who became a priest as did his only sibling.  He and his brother inherited a nice sum after the death of their parents and went together and purchased a very nice condo in a good area where they both lived after retiring.  They also enjoyed travel and traveled extensively all over the world both before and after retirement, all from their investments made from their parents' estates.

[limecoke]

Having a Caesarean in the late 60’s was very much as portrayed here. The nurses treated you as a surgical patient, discouraged breast-feeding and often kept the baby away from mom for the first 24 hrs. at least. I suppose it was just how it was done but it wasn’t good. Thankfully, it changed in the next decade and today is completely different.  I’m still impressed that CTM is pretty accurate about this historical medical stuff. They rolled it into the gestational diabetes storyline but it was fairly standard for all C-sections at the time

[anna0852]

4 minutes ago, limecoke said:

Having a Caesarean in the late 60’s was very much as portrayed here. The nurses treated you as a surgical patient, discouraged breast-feeding and often kept the baby away from mom for the first 24 hrs. at least. I suppose it was just how it was done but it wasn’t good. Thankfully, it changed in the next decade and today is completely different.  

 Actually, I'm not convinced it has changed for the better. Now the pendulum seems to have swung the other way and Cesareans are considered to be such a small thing that moms aren't given the right time to heal. I feel the same way about this whole "baby-friendly hospital" thing. There's something to be said for letting a newly postpartum mom actually sleep through the night because the baby is in the nursery. These days moms seemed to be expected to give birth and act as though they haven't just undergone a massive physical trauma. There has to be a balance between the bonding/breastfeeding and allowing a woman time to heal.

[jschoolgirl]

On 10/18/2021 at 12:12 AM, susannah said:

I also liked Nurse Crane and Miss Higgins planning to travel together.

Was that in this episode??? 

[jschoolgirl]

On 10/18/2021 at 10:46 AM, dubbel zout said:

 It cracked me up when Phyllis said Millicent's friend sounded nice, and Millicent replied she talked a LOT and Phyllis laughed.

And was that in this episode? Maybe it was PBS'd in America?

[LadyChaos]

I have to be honest.....I used to love Sister Monica Joan, but I really am just annoyed by her by now.

[EllaWycliffe]

5 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

I have to be honest.....I used to love Sister Monica Joan, but I really am just annoyed by her by now.

The longer the show goes on, the more I feel this way. I'm not a purist but... SMJ did die in the books around 1959. I dislike her magical dementia that comes and goes when they need a story line.

[GiuliettaMasina]

On 10/18/2021 at 12:28 AM, LittleIggy said:

Lucille and Cyril are so freaking boring.😴

On 10/18/2021 at 12:54 AM, susannah said:

I don't think she was a bitch at all. He was being extremely patronizing to her, talking sooo slowly and enunciating every syllable like she was brainless and deaf, and I was glad she let him have it.  Lucille and Cyril passed boring a while back. I think they should market them as sleep aids.

Laughing at both of these posts. I try so hard to be interested in Lucille b/c she's the only main character of color, but gosh if she isn't the drippiest of drips. 

[LilJen]

On 10/18/2021 at 2:27 PM, TomGirl said:

Maybe, but I was mesmerized by the actress, Jenny Walser.  What a beautiful girl!

 

On 10/18/2021 at 2:34 PM, AZChristian said:

Her actual name is Jenny Walser.  She looks SOOOO familiar to me, but according to IMDB, this episode of "Call the Midwife" is her first acting job.  

Reminded me of Juno Temple (aka Keely on Ted Lasso).