S04.E02: Nightshade

[Whimsy]

Quote

June plots revenge at the local Jezebels, before she and the Handmaids plan to leave the farm for the next safe house. In Toronto, Moira deals with the fallout of June’s choices, and Serena and Fred are bound together by a miracle.

original airdate 4/28/21

[Umbelina]

I didn't hate Luke, for the first time.  Someone has wised up.

Now I really wish they'd dropped the whole season at once.

[chocolatine]

Super-June is back with her heroics, at the expense of people who are risking their lives for her. The poisoning at Jezebels could have done more harm than good; what if some of the women had done shots with the commanders? Or did the blonde woman manage to warn all of them without the Aunts getting wind of it? At least it looks like the other handmaids and Esther managed to escape, since Nick asked June where they were.

I recently read one of Margaret Atwood's lesser known novels, Cat's Eye, which has several references to the nightshade plant and how poisonous it is, so apparently the show takes story ideas from her other works now.

RIP, brave and handsome guardian whose name we never learned.

[Brn2bwild]

Is it me, or did Emily seem jealous of Moira's girlfriend?  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

It was very sweet to see Rita talking about June at the fundraiser. I did have a moment where I worried that all the publicity could make it easier for June to be recognized wherever she goes and then caught, but then I remembered there was already footage of her on tv with the Waterfords.

It was sad to watch Serena defend Fred hitting her and chopping off her finger. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid, girl. When she said he acted out of anger and was probably sorry, I was like uh, NO. After all the things she knows he has done and all the things he as done to her, she thinks that he's still the same Fred she knew before Gilead. The denial is strong. The man who loved her is long gone.

I'm glad that they're showing not all of the kids are adjusting. While it's true that they're better off not being in Gilead, at best they're having some culture shock. I'm sure Asher is not the only one who misses the people who he grew up thinking were his parents. I liked that he said he missed his Martha. It was a great idea to have Rita come over to make dinner.

The brothel scenes always gross me out but at least some good came of it this time. I hope none of the commanders forced the girls to drink (although I'm guessing the men wouldn't bother to waste perfectly good alcohol by letting women and whores drink it). I was also worried that if a bunch of the men got sick, the girls at the brothel would be suspected/punished. I wasn't clear on whether June just added a little to make them sick or if she used enough to kill them.

RIP hot nameless May Day guardian who refused to leave June and got killed for his trouble.

I hope June told the other girls where the yellow farmhouse was. Otherwise they'll just be wandering the woods.

How did Nick find June? Is there a double agent in May Day?

Janine's love of movie quotes will never get old for me!

8 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

Is it me, or did Emily seem jealous of Moira's girlfriend?  

I thought she just looked wistful because she misses her wife.

ETA: I forgot about Serena's pregnancy. Hopefully this will only strengthen her resolve rather than send her straight back to Fred's arms. Keep quiet about that baby, get all this legal stuff straightened out, and then get thee to Canada, Serena!

Edited April 28, 2021 by ElectricBoogaloo

[AntFTW]

Are all the brothels in Gilead named Jezebels?

[LordOfLotion]

1 hour ago, AntFTW said:

Are all the brothels in Gilead named Jezebels?

It's probably a franchise like Chuck-E-Cheese. I wonder what's on the sign outside since they can't have anything with writing on it.

[jenn31]

10 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

Is it me, or did Emily seem jealous of Moira's girlfriend?  

 

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I thought she just looked wistful because she misses her wife.

That’s how I read it too. 

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, LordOfLotion said:

It's probably a franchise like Chuck-E-Cheese. I wonder what's on the sign outside since they can't have anything with writing on it.

OMG!  You just made me spurt my coffee.

Should we design the logo?

2 hours ago, AntFTW said:

Are all the brothels in Gilead named Jezebels?

Yes.  As is now indicated by the show, they exist in most towns.  In the book (not really a spoiler, I seriously doubt it will come up on the show, but I'll tag it anyway)

Spoiler

they even have contests among the various cities for the Jezebel women, kind of like "best this" or "best that" perverted versions of a porno Miss America contest.

 

[LordOfLotion]

Just now, Umbelina said:

OMG!  You just made me spurt my coffee.

Should we design the logo?

Yes.  As is now indicated by the show, they exist in most towns.  In the book (not really a spoiler, I seriously doubt it will come up on the show, but I'll tag it anyway)

  Hide contents

they even have contests among the various cities for the Jezebel women, kind of like "best this" or "best that" perverted versions of a porno Miss America contest.

 

That club in The Sopranos, Bada Bing, had a silhouette of a nude woman on it, I was thinking maybe that with a few, uh symbols of coitus? 🤣 Any unapproved activities could have a circle with a slash through it.

[Umbelina]

25 minutes ago, LordOfLotion said:

That club in The Sopranos, Bada Bing, had a silhouette of a nude woman on it, I was thinking maybe that with a few, uh symbols of coitus? 🤣 Any unapproved activities could have a circle with a slash through it.

It's still a "secret" though, and men are allowed to read.  I doubt they would be quite that blatant, a drone or visitor might see it!

Something religious about her probably, she was quite a biblical character as far as murdering, so an accidentally apt choice for those dead commanders?  

[Baltimore Betty]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

RIP hot nameless May Day guardian who refused to leave June and got killed for his trouble.

Doesn't everyone who has helped June wind up dead?

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Doesn't everyone who has helped June wind up dead?

People die in revolutions, and in war.  This is both.

Also, I don't think they are "helping June."  They are fighting for their own freedom, and their country.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Umbelina

[kittykat]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Should we design the logo?

I'll vote for a neon sign of hot pink legs that open and close.  Gilead is all about the class.

[Umbelina]

4 minutes ago, kittykat said:

I'll vote for a neon sign of hot pink legs that open and close.  Gilead is all about the class.

Probably more like a FISH sign with a J in it, but...let's hope we see one.  Even more likely, unmarked, only known by the top men.  

[The Mighty Peanut]

On 4/28/2021 at 11:47 AM, LordOfLotion said:

It's probably a franchise like Chuck-E-Cheese. I wonder what's on the sign outside since they can't have anything with writing on it.

The eggplant, peach, and water splash emojis.

(I'm sorry, I had to). 

Also, stupid question and I am sorry if it has been asked and answered and I missed it....when Moira's gf said that Asher was named "James, after my brother, Asher's real father"....was she saying he was a child of incest? It sure sounded like it to me but I thought I may be misunderstanding. It doesn't seem realistic to me that someone would just casually drop a bombshell like that and act like it's a normal thing to name your child after his father-uncle. (ETA: I realize I was way off--I thought the Aunt was his mom, and that she was Moira's gf. This is why I shouldn't have stayed up until 3am watching the new episodes.)

Edited May 1, 2021 by The Mighty Peanut

[Umbelina]

18 minutes ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

The eggplant, peach, and water splash emojis.

(I'm sorry, I had to). 

Also, stupid question and I am sorry if it has been asked and answered and I missed it....when Moira's gf said that Asher was named "James, after my brother, Asher's real father"....was she saying he was a child of incest? It sure sounded like it to me but I thought I may be misunderstanding. It doesn't seem realistic to me that someone would just casually drop a bombshell like that and act like it's a normal thing to name your child after his father-uncle.

Watching again, I think we see a flag over a Jezebels!  About 9 minutes in, couldn't make it out though.

[EllaWycliffe]

35 minutes ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

when Moira's gf said that Asher was named "James, after my brother, Asher's real father"....was she saying he was a child of incest? It sure sounded like it to me but I thought I may be misunderstanding. It doesn't seem realistic to me that someone would just casually drop a bombshell like that and act like it's a normal thing to name your child after his father-uncle.

Well, I don't think so. She was Asher's aunt and the kids were being placed with their nearest relatives. I think she was just noting that Asher wasn't named Asher at birth, and his attachment to his "parents" is somewhat wrapped up in how they took him from his true family and renamed him... as opposed to letting him continue to be named after his biological father.

[Umbelina]

I love that they showed the kids struggling to adjust and the "family" member, in that case an aunt, not being perfect with them.  I loved Moira's stepping in, and bringing Rita in to make him feel less discombobbled.  

It was so dark though, on rewatch I can't tell if the Jezebel's got a heads up not to drink the booze or not.  Anyway?

[kittykat]

When the 86 got rescued that was my question.  Sure some children would likely find their parents but its unlikely in most cases.  Which mothers are still handmaid's?  Which father's are even alive?  What about the children like Hannah that were taken at toddler age?  Not to mention all the John/Jane Doe picture books.  I'm glad there's not a clear cut solution and it makes the Canada stuff more intriguing.

[Umbelina]

11 minutes ago, kittykat said:

When the 86 got rescued that was my question.  Sure some children would likely find their parents but its unlikely in most cases.  Which mothers are still handmaid's?  Which father's are even alive?  What about the children like Hannah that were taken at toddler age?  Not to mention all the John/Jane Doe picture books.  I'm glad there's not a clear cut solution and it makes the Canada stuff more intriguing.

Yes, I agree.  

Quite unlikely that most would find relatives in Canada, yet.  Hopefully many more will escape though.

At least they aren't stuck in Gilead.  (shudder)  It will be traumatic for a while, but at least now the children have a chance at "normal."

I'm glad 9 women got out with them, that should help, along with those escapees that know at least some of what the kids have been through.

[The Mighty Peanut]

1 hour ago, EllaWycliffe said:

Well, I don't think so. She was Asher's aunt and the kids were being placed with their nearest relatives. I think she was just noting that Asher wasn't named Asher at birth, and his attachment to his "parents" is somewhat wrapped up in how they took him from his true family and renamed him... as opposed to letting him continue to be named after his biological father.

Thank you. I did not realize she was his aunt, I thought she was his mother.

[Umbelina]

Now my browser history is going to show I was looking for abstract penis signs.  (sigh)

This one might work, but there was a flag up over that house, seemed to have leaves.

[cuppasun]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

Also, stupid question and I am sorry if it has been asked and answered and I missed it....when Moira's gf said that Asher was named "James, after my brother, Asher's real father"....was she saying he was a child of incest? It sure sounded like it to me but I thought I may be misunderstanding. It doesn't seem realistic to me that someone would just casually drop a bombshell like that and act like it's a normal thing to name your child after his father-uncle.

 

1 hour ago, EllaWycliffe said:

Well, I don't think so. She was Asher's aunt and the kids were being placed with their nearest relatives. I think she was just noting that Asher wasn't named Asher at birth, and his attachment to his "parents" is somewhat wrapped up in how they took him from his true family and renamed him... as opposed to letting him continue to be named after his biological father.

Yes, that was Asher/James’ aunt who mentioned her brother— she also made a reference that implied he’s probably dead. Also, she’s not Moira’s gf, Moira just checks in on her & her nephew as part of helping with the placement of the rescued children. Moira’s gf is another woman (sorry, can’t remember her name- Moira brought her takeout food which they ate while waiting for the gf’s rideshare before she went out of town). 

I do appreciate showing the nuance and difficulty for some of the children in the aftermath of their displacement. Still, I’m really glad someone (Moira?) noted that the kids are all better off in the long run even if some of them have to deal with some trauma. I think it’s worth remembering that the source of that trauma ultimately isn’t their rescuers (June or anyone else), it’s the theocratic fascist regime that authorized and carried out their kidnappings in the first place. Even the kind parents of Gilead were complicit in this and knew full well they were raising kidnapped children. And even the kind parents were preparing those kids to (most likely) be raped or rapists once they reached puberty (girls)/ adulthood (boys). The kids deserve empathy, compassion, gentleness and lots of therapy. The Gilead adults don’t get much of my sympathy.

[EllaWycliffe]

Just now, cuppasun said:

Even the kind parents of Gilead were complicit in this and knew full well they were raising kidnapped children. And even the kind parents were preparing those kids to (most likely) be raped or rapists once they reached puberty (girls)/ adulthood (boys). The kids deserve empathy, compassion, gentleness and lots of therapy. The Gilead adults don’t get much of my sympathy.

The smidge of sympathy I would give Gilead parents is that we don't know what these people are like or their individual situations. We did just learn that status as a wife is hardly a treat. I also feel for the kids whose biological fathers are Commanders in Gilead with handmaid moms, because really, they've been taken from an actual parent. I mean, if all people not handmaids rebeling are evil, then ok, everyone in Gilead sucks and deserves what they get... But there can be shades of grey.

Mind you, I think there's some world building problems in Gilead's structure.

[greekmom]

I wish Rita would see the Waterfords just to tell them to fuck off.
I seriously do not understand why both Fred and SJ still cling to their fantasy of Gilead and proper Gilead etiquette. Gilead beliefs. And something in me says that even with the baby news SJ will still cling to the idea of her, Fred and baby makes 3.
Did we see the nurse Martha that Ester keeps talking about?
I' m sorry people but hearing Moira and Emily whine about what a shitty person June is for freeing the kids. I mean whine about what a sucky person she is and how she's such a Mary Sue. But not for gettting those kids out.
Damn Nick is a fool. Like Fred he likes power.
 

[LavenderSunset]

21 hours ago, chocolatine said:

RIP, brave and handsome guardian whose name we never learned.

Subtitles said the guardian's name was David.

[EllaWycliffe]

10 minutes ago, greekmom said:

I' m sorry people but hearing Moira and Emily whine about what a shitty person June is for freeing the kids. I mean whine about what a sucky person she is and how she's such a Mary Sue. But not for gettting those kids out.

While I agree its ultimately better that the kids get out - the kids are likely miserable in Canada. Their perspective is that they've been ripped from their parents - who probably do love them - and been taken to new homes where the new adults tell them that their beloved parents were monsters. Watching kids be sad and unhappy can make you question whether it was really for the best. Now, ultimately it is - but that doesn't make the kids less miserable.

I also think in contest, Moira and Emily were complaining that June doesn't count the costs when she asks for big favors. Emily had a good point about being handed June's baby to take across the border and maybe raise - for all she knew, Luke and or Moira were dead and she's stuck with a kid.

[fountain]

I thought Moira and Emily were just blowing off steam with their complaining. It was a way they were bonding and it seemed implied that they really missed June. 

The kids are better off in Canada. It will take a while and therapy. The aunt needs better support as her way of handling her nephew is not going to be helpful. I recognize she is learning too but as an adult she needs to be the adult in discussion with the nephew and she needs to educate herself more. I don’t expect her to be perfect but she must know yelling “they aren’t your parents” is wrong. I cut her some slack because she is the aunt and with the fertility issue going on likely never had any kids of her own so maybe doesn’t know anything about kids.

[Cornhusker12]

This season seems to be an improvement so far, but there are still things that make me roll my eyes. The stakes are just all over the place, constantly changing from scene to scene. For example, the "Angel Flight" was clearly a giant international incident, we were told that it could start a war that could "kill millions." It presumably brought universal attention to the horrific atrocities being perpetrated by Gilead. But when we cross the border into Canada... it seems more like a cause for a pleasant suburban bake sale fundraiser?

[greekmom]

54 minutes ago, Cornhusker12 said:

This season seems to be an improvement so far, but there are still things that make me roll my eyes. The stakes are just all over the place, constantly changing from scene to scene. For example, the "Angel Flight" was clearly a giant international incident, we were told that it could start a war that could "kill millions." It presumably brought universal attention to the horrific atrocities being perpetrated by Gilead. But when we cross the border into Canada... it seems more like a cause for a pleasant suburban bake sale fundraiser?

What gets me is why and how long will it take for the rest of the world to back up Canada against Gilead? Correct me if I am wrong but the only reason WW2 was started was because Hitler started invading other countries (people knew something was going on about the Jews but not to the full extent and had the "not my monkey not my circus" attitude towards it) and eventually the States was only pulled in because of Pearl Harbour.  So the rest of the world doesn't bat an eye on the atrocities of Gilead as long as it's kept "in-house" ?  Really if Gilead was to invade Canada to get those kids back they would be inciting a world war as the UN would have to back the Canadians which would mean the fall of Gilead.  Damn Lawrence and his idea to get a seat at the UN. He could have just let it go and had Gilead fall.  They (Gilead) couldn't possibly have enough man and military power to fight the Americans (civil war) and the world.

[Umbelina]

10 minutes ago, greekmom said:

What gets me is why and how long will it take for the rest of the world to back up Canada against Gilead? Correct me if I am wrong but the only reason WW2 was started was because Hitler started invading other countries (people knew something was going on about the Jews but not to the full extent and had the "not my monkey not my circus" attitude towards it) and eventually the States was only pulled in because of Pearl Harbour.  So the rest of the world doesn't bat an eye on the atrocities of Gilead as long as it's kept "in-house" ?  Really if Gilead was to invade Canada to get those kids back they would be inciting a world war as the UN would have to back the Canadians which would mean the fall of Gilead.  Damn Lawrence and his idea to get a seat at the UN. He could have just let it go and had Gilead fall.  They (Gilead) couldn't possibly have enough man and military power to fight the Americans (civil war) and the world.

Largest stockpile of weapons in the world, by far.  Including nukes and all kinds of other missiles, and weaponized drones.

No one wants to take on Gilead and risk being nuked.  

Sanctions are already happening though, at least by most countries.

[greekmom]

4 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Largest stockpile of weapons in the world, by far.  Including nukes and all kinds of other missiles, and weaponized drones.

No one wants to take on Gilead and risk being nuked.  

Sanctions are already happening though, at least by most countries.

I see your point but we don't know how much was taken by Gilead and how much was taken by the remaining United States.  For argument's sake let's say 60/40 split. You still have other countries such as Russia and China if backed by the rest of the UN would prove a powerhouse against Gilead. 

Historically sanctions don't do much (case in point Cuba and N. Korea).

Not that I am for war - quite the opposite, I am against it. I seriously do wonder how the States will overtake Gilead and restore Abe's head back on in Washington. (sorry that bothers me ever time I see the scene and I am not American.)

[dmc]

Fred and Serena are two of a kind.  Not sure why Serena is getting an sympathy.  When that guy said if she did this her deal would be back on the table and her Nicole rights restored...WTF...seriously WTF.  She has no rights to Nicole and she sucks as bad as Fred.  I am so glad he stuck it to her.

 

 

[dmc]

16 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

The smidge of sympathy I would give Gilead parents is that we don't know what these people are like or their individual situations. We did just learn that status as a wife is hardly a treat. I also feel for the kids whose biological fathers are Commanders in Gilead with handmaid moms, because really, they've been taken from an actual parent. I mean, if all people not handmaids rebeling are evil, then ok, everyone in Gilead sucks and deserves what they get... But there can be shades of grey.

Mind you, I think there's some world building problems in Gilead's structure.

Not all wives had anything to do with the creation of Gillead. They were just forced into a situation and didn't fight back.  I think the deal with Gillead is your role is chosen for you.  

So I guess people have to decide if going with the status quo (when the punishment is death) is terrible or not.  Also what would you personally do in that situation?

 

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by dmc

[Umbelina]

4 minutes ago, greekmom said:

I see your point but we don't know how much was taken by Gilead and how much was taken by the remaining United States.  For argument's sake let's say 60/40 split. You still have other countries such as Russia and China if backed by the rest of the UN would prove a powerhouse against Gilead. 

Historically sanctions don't do much (case in point Cuba and N. Korea).

Not that I am for war - quite the opposite, I am against it. I seriously do wonder how the States will overtake Gilead and restore Abe's head back on in Washington. (sorry that bothers me ever time I see the scene and I am not American.)

It's not just nukes, Russia has more and apparently China's are better (but I can't see either country trying to save the USA, they would just let it continue to implode.)  

Military budget though, just massive, planes, warships, tanks, drones, etc.  

You've heard them talk about damages from nuclear things on the show, so they are actually unlikely to use nukes since they seem to understand the global implications, but who knows?  They are fruitcakes.

They are trying to save as many fertile USA/Gilead people as possible though, so the force used against the USA loyalists or rebels is probably much less that they are capable of.  Realistically, if they wanted to flatten Chicago?  They could.  Then again, we don't know how many weapons or former military are in the hands of the rebels either, as you point out.

A question I hope to have answered soon, since Nick's on his way to Chicago (and I have a feeling June may be as well, no spoiler, but honestly, where else would she head with just Janine in tow?)  Close to Canada, and they might just join those wars now.

[Umbelina]

10 minutes ago, dmc said:

Not all wives had anything to do with the creation of Gillead. They were just forced into a situation and didn't fight back.  I think the deal with Gillead is your role is chosen for you.  

So I guess people have to decide if going with the status quo (when the punishment is death) is terrible or not.  Also what would you personally do in that situation?

 

 

Oh a lot of them were fully on board with Serena's books and lectures about the place of women, and the reason for the birth rate disaster was women working and acting like men, and not being pious enough.  Women also had abortions and used birth control and wanted careers over their REAL job of baby making.  She had a gigantic following of people convinced this was the right way to go.

I agree that not all wives were on board, but a lot were.  However, did they know they would not be allowed to read and all the rest?  I doubt that.  

Serena as a co architect of a lot of this thought she would be exempt, as we've seen in flashbacks.  Only she would get a handmaid to have a baby for her.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Umbelina
added stuff

[dmc]

2 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Oh a lot of them were fully on board with Serena's books and lectures about the place of women, and the reason for the birth rate disaster was women working and acting like men, and not being pious enough.  She had a gigantic following of people convinced this was the right way to go.

I agree that not all wives were on board, but a lot were.  However, did they know they would not be allowed to read and all the rest?  I doubt that.  

Serena as a co architect of a lot of this thought she would be exempt, as we've seen in flashbacks.  Only she would get a handmaid to have a baby for her.

Agreed.  Some knew and they are awful.  But I assuming a group of them were just people who part of the US and then had no choice but to be wife.  

Those people's crime is just going along with something they know is wrong.  

Edited April 29, 2021 by dmc

[RunningMarket]

Can someone please remind me when Serena had sex? Was it with Fred? Because I thought buddy was shootin' blanks (hence the need for Nick to step in in S1).

[dmc]

12 minutes ago, RunningMarket said:

Can someone please remind me when Serena had sex? Was it with Fred? Because I thought buddy was shootin' blanks (hence the need for Nick to step in in S1).

When they were driving to Canada 

[tennisgurl]

June, you messy bitch you. Emily and Moira were mostly just blowing off some steam and bonding a bit over June's hijinks, but they aren't wrong that June tends to act first and think later. She's lucky that she's the main character or she would probably have been hanging on the wall ages ago for all the shit she pulls. 

I am glad they are showing that some of the kids are struggling with adjusting to living outside of Gilead, it seems realistic that it would be confusing to suddenly be in this new place away from the family they have been with for years or even their whole lives. Those kids should be getting a ton of therapy and very gentle support, and their guardians should hopefully be getting help on how to help the children transition to living outside of Gilead and deal with any traumas they have living in that awful place. This is certainly hard for a lot of them, but its absolutely for the best that the kids were rescued from Gilead. Everything in Gilead is horrible always, where you can be tortured, raped, mutilated, or murdered for any reason at all, let alone it just being a drab miserable place in its day to day, the kids have an actual future now that they're in Canada. Hopefully Asher/James's aunt gets some help taking care of him, this is obviously a lot for her to handle but her yelling at the poor kid is hardly helping him leave that world behind. Really nice that Rita could come to visit, she has such a calming way about her. 

I don't feel bad for Serena, she and Fred are two peas in a terrible pod. 

RIP to the very attractive Mayday guardian. Should have known things were going too smooth. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by tennisgurl

[SourK]

Okay, so, in two episodes, the story has pivoted back to June being captured again. I'm still super suspicious of the psychopath child and her pantry full of poison, but she may be less important, now.

I hated that Rita got the chance to speak about what happened and literally all she talked about was how much we should all admire June. I had this weird moment where I almost thought Rita had never been outside Gilead before, but then I was like, "No, she's old enough that she lived through the takeover. She had a life before that -- who was she? How is she reacting to this?" And then all she did was talk about June and cook a meal.

On 4/28/2021 at 9:24 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It was sad to watch Serena defend Fred hitting her and chopping off her finger. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid, girl. When she said he acted out of anger and was probably sorry, I was like uh, NO. After all the things she knows he has done and all the things he as done to her, she thinks that he's still the same Fred she knew before Gilead. The denial is strong. The man who loved her is long gone.

I don't think the man who loved her was ever really there, and I find the way they're exploring that interesting. I think what Serena's learning about Fred is that he was nice to her when he felt powerless, but as soon as he didn't "have to" be nice anymore, he became an abusive asshole (the detail where she doesn't want to call it abuse yet is really realistic). She told herself it was Gilead that made him that way, but that's just how Fred is. It's how he always was, and it's how he's always going to be unless he stops believing he has the right to control other people.

I'm actually interested to see where this pregnancy story line goes. I wouldn't actually be shocked if she got an abortion.

On 4/28/2021 at 9:24 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

RIP hot nameless May Day guardian who refused to leave June and got killed for his trouble.

When June was talking about how Not All Men are made of garbage, the guardian who was helping them was one of the first people I thought of. And then, he wouldn't leave her when they walked into an obvious trap. And he got unceremoniously murdered, but we're supposed to be relieved because June survived. :(

[dmc]

1 hour ago, SourK said:

Okay, so, in two episodes, the story has pivoted back to June being captured again. I'm still super suspicious of the psychopath child and her pantry full of poison, but she may be less important, now.

I hated that Rita got the chance to speak about what happened and literally all she talked about was how much we should all admire June. I had this weird moment where I almost thought Rita had never been outside Gilead before, but then I was like, "No, she's old enough that she lived through the takeover. She had a life before that -- who was she? How is she reacting to this?" And then all she did was talk about June and cook a meal.

I don't think the man who loved her was ever really there, and I find the way they're exploring that interesting. I think what Serena's learning about Fred is that he was nice to her when he felt powerless, but as soon as he didn't "have to" be nice anymore, he became an abusive asshole (the detail where she doesn't want to call it abuse yet is really realistic). She told herself it was Gilead that made him that way, but that's just how Fred is. It's how he always was, and it's how he's always going to be unless he stops believing he has the right to control other people.

I'm actually interested to see where this pregnancy story line goes. I wouldn't actually be shocked if she got an abortion.

When June was talking about how Not All Men are made of garbage, the guardian who was helping them was one of the first people I thought of. And then, he wouldn't leave her when they walked into an obvious trap. And he got unceremoniously murdered, but we're supposed to be relieved because June survived. :(

I am trying hard to think of another guy on this show that's not garbage.  This guy and who?

Sometimes Nick

Sometimes Luke

Sometime the guy who June lived with last season

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by dmc

[AntFTW]

21 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

Their perspective is that they've been ripped from their parents - who probably do love them - and been taken to new homes where the new adults tell them that their beloved parents were monsters.

Ironically, that's the same perspective many of those kids had of their actual parents and they saw the Gilead parents as the monsters who ripped from their beloved biological parents.. like Hannah.

The 86 kids or the ones of the 86 kids who are old enough to remember their parents "from before" has gone through the same trauma twice.

[AntFTW]

I always have to watch twice because I know I'll miss stuff the first time I watch.

It completely went over my head that Esther teaches June about the poison she's cooking up and June whips up a batch to poison the commanders and the Aunt at Jezebels.

Edited April 30, 2021 by AntFTW

[chaifan]

First a quick question... was the poisoning of Comm. Keyes indicated in the first episode?  Because it was mentioned in some of the comments on Ep 1 thread, and I didn't remember it.  But it was definitely in this episode.  So, did I just miss it in Ep 1, or did people watch 1 and 2 back to back and accidentally commented on it in the Ep 1 thread?

7 hours ago, SourK said:

I don't think the man who loved her was ever really there, and I find the way they're exploring that interesting. I think what Serena's learning about Fred is that he was nice to her when he felt powerless, but as soon as he didn't "have to" be nice anymore, he became an abusive asshole (the detail where she doesn't want to call it abuse yet is really realistic). She told herself it was Gilead that made him that way, but that's just how Fred is. It's how he always was, and it's how he's always going to be unless he stops believing he has the right to control other people.

Damn.  This is so on point.  Very well stated, @SourK.  I do wish they let Serena explore her "wow, Fred really is an asshole" epiphany a bit before springing the pregnancy on her.  I'm not sure how I feel about a pregnancy plotline for Serena... 

The kids...  it would have been interesting to see them all in a group deprogramming camp for a little while.  I have no expertise in this sort of thing, but that would make sense to me.  Group therapy, but also group play and bonding over their experience.  And the older kids could be explaining their pre-Gilead lives to the younger ones who can't remember it.  I am so glad Rita's back on screen and hope she becomes a guide of sorts for these kids in Canada. 

So, June's killing of the Commander at Jezebel's in Boston ended up getting most of the women there killed.  hmmm... what were Moira and Emily saying about having to clean up her messes?  I hope we get a little tidbit of the aftermath of the mass poisoning.  I did really like Esther's very calm, matter of fact way of explaining that she'd been slowly poisoning Comm. Keyes.  She needs to be teaching that little trick to all the Mayday members. 

And let's see... 8 handmaids and a 14 year old wife doing a 13 mile hike through the woods in the winter to the Yellow farmhouse.  That would take about 4 hours.  (night time, rough ground, horrible shoes, etc.)  Assuming they waited until night to leave, they probably left shortly before Nick and the Eyes showed up.  Can't imagine they would be hard to find, or that there would be many places to search for them. 

[mamadrama]

Dead or close to it. Meanwhile, June bears no outwardly physical signs of punishment.

[mamadrama]

13 hours ago, greekmom said:

I see your point but we don't know how much was taken by Gilead and how much was taken by the remaining United States.  For argument's sake let's say 60/40 split. You still have other countries such as Russia and China if backed by the rest of the UN would prove a powerhouse against Gilead. 

Historically sanctions don't do much (case in point Cuba and N. Korea).

Not that I am for war - quite the opposite, I am against it. I seriously do wonder how the States will overtake Gilead and restore Abe's head back on in Washington. (sorry that bothers me ever time I see the scene and I am not American.)

Yeah, I don't feel like we have a good grasp on what Gilead has on hand right now, especially considering there is still rebel held land in some places.

[aghst]

There was never going to be a prolonged resistance with June leading these women and others joining in.  Not that June and her rag tag band of Handmaids would be able to do damage too much longer.  There would have to be widespread sympathizers ready to revolt, including among the military.

They had to keep having the June vs. Lydia confrontations and weave Nick and Lawrence back into the picture.  So of course she has to be captured again.

Yeah the farm was about as long-term as the farm house in The Walking Dead.

But they alluded to some rumors like Texas was independent so they could go there.  Well weren't they closer to Canada than TX?  And the plan was for June to leave for Canada on that fight.

Maybe in the future they will reach other pockets of resistance but probably not in this season.  They're probably glad to have gotten this season in the can.  The temptation will be to keep it going as long as possible, perhaps.  Only if Moss decides she wants to move on, they will map out a final season.

I wonder if they will try to dovetail this show into the sequel Atwood wrote (like Game of Thrones supposedly tried to do based on the outline Martin gave to the GoT show runners) or just come up with their own ending.

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by aghst

[Jan.na]

9 hours ago, chaifan said:

First a quick question... was the poisoning of Comm. Keyes indicated in the first episode?  Because it was mentioned in some of the comments on Ep 1 thread, and I didn't remember it.  But it was definitely in this episode.  So, did I just miss it in Ep 1, or did people watch 1 and 2 back to back and accidentally commented on it in the Ep 1 thread?

No! I also thought I missed that in the first episode when I read the thread but now I think I didn’t (also something about the Martha teaching Esther how to do it). 
But I think we weren’t supposed to know until this episode when June finds out.