Kody Brown: The Man Who Survived a KNIFE to the KIDNEYS!

[LilyD]

A thing that I started to notice when watching the show:

Has anyone else noticed how often Kody says “I didn’t give anyone permission to do so or so” in the past season?Quite scary really. I’m starting to wonder how dominant and “despotic” even  he really was behind the scenes….

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, LilyD said:

A thing that I started to notice when watching the show:

Has anyone else noticed how often Kody says “I didn’t give anyone permission to do so or so” in the past season?Quite scary really. I’m starting to wonder how dominant and “despotic” even  he really was behind the scenes….

I'm going to guess not at all. The OG3 and Robyn have, and continue to, rule the roost. Although I will say all of the wives have kowtowed here and there to many of Kody's ridiculous ideas to appear as the 'good wife'. But in the end IMO the only thing Kody controlled was how much attention he gave each wife.

[Scarlett45]

Referring to @TurtlePower from the Janelle thread-

Looks are subjective but I agree with you, Kody’s personality and mean behavior changes his looks. I certainly see how in his youth Meri, Janelle and Christine were attracted to him (physically), but having an ugly personality always shows through. 

[LilyD]

For whatever reason I was thinking about this family’s recent falling apart. Was it just the move to Arizona and the pandemic that pushed the button? Or was it a festering wound where more and more kids moved away from Kody’s ideal fundamentalist world supported by their moms??
Not too long ago, we had Mykelti’s, Maddie’s and Aspyn’s very traditional courtships and subsequent marriages. Then Logan kicked the bucket with dating and  living together unmarried with Michelle (and his thoughts of potentially not starting a family) We had Leon and Gwen with their coming outs. Other Brown kids starting normal relationships not courtships, and different dress codes that were definitely not modest. Christine, Janelle and Meri were ok by it, supporting and embracing their kids.
 

But what about Kody? On the show he pretends to be ok with it, but I don’t believe it, considering his background and all the things he said on the show. I think that privately, he’s angry and upset by the direction his family is going. I think he’s angry with being ignored and feels betrayed by his wives who do little to “correct” this and keep supporting their children.  Nobody cares what he thinks of it, which is very hard for someone who wants to be in charge and wants to be important. There is nothing left of his ideal world with everyone living together in a polygamist setting with him as a patriarch. And apart from feeling betrayed, he is also aware that he failed as a patriarch and in building his ideal world. It’s all the fault of his kids and Janelle, Christine and Meri.

And here we have another reason for Kody only being with Robyn. She seems to still embrace parts of their religion, raises her kids secluded from the rest (the pandemic was perfect for keeping them out of school) and she gives Kody the idea that she listens to him and his rules. Whether or not she is sincere is a different matter, but he thinks she is and still worships and supports him.

[Scarlett45]

37 minutes ago, LilyD said:

For whatever reason I was thinking about this family’s recent falling apart. Was it just the move to Arizona and the pandemic that pushed the button? Or was it a festering wound where more and more kids moved away from Kody’s ideal fundamentalist world supported by their moms??
Not too long ago, we had Mykelti’s, Maddie’s and Aspyn’s very traditional courtships and subsequent marriages. Then Logan kicked the bucket with dating and  living together unmarried with Michelle (and his thoughts of potentially not starting a family) We had Leon and Gwen with their coming outs. Other Brown kids starting normal relationships not courtships, and different dress codes that were definitely not modest. Christine, Janelle and Meri were ok by it, supporting and embracing their kids.
 

But what about Kody? On the show he pretends to be ok with it, but I don’t believe it, considering his background and all the things he said on the show. I think that privately, he’s angry and upset by the direction his family is going. I think he’s angry with being ignored and feels betrayed by his wives who do little to “correct” this and keep supporting their children.  Nobody cares what he thinks of it, which is very hard for someone who wants to be in charge and wants to be important. There is nothing left of his ideal world with everyone living together in a polygamist setting with him as a patriarch. And apart from feeling betrayed, he is also aware that he failed as a patriarch and in building his ideal world. It’s all the fault of his kids and Janelle, Christine and Meri.

And here we have another reason for Kody only being with Robyn. She seems to still embrace parts of their religion, raises her kids secluded from the rest (the pandemic was perfect for keeping them out of school) and she gives Kody the idea that she listens to him and his rules. Whether or not she is sincere is a different matter, but he thinks she is and still worships and supports him.

I wouldn’t consider Maddie or Aspyn’s courtships “traditional”. Yes they both married guys from their community, but Maddie’s husband is MUCH older than her (wasn’t he 31 to her 19? Approximately), and although they have a marriage where he earns and she stays home and performs the caregiving, I think it was more that Kody LOVED Caleb that made him okay with his very young daughter marrying a guy so much older. (I did think it was odd they were okay with her marrying him so young- I don’t think Caleb is a bad guy but I side eye a grown ass man being interested in a 19yrs old outside of physical attraction). 

With Aspyn, she married a similarly aged guy AFTER she finished college, so that was more mainstream (although he was from the community). I don’t think they claimed they “courted”, they dated in a typical way for at least a year and then got engaged. 
 

Logan and Michelle living together and being childfree probably really grinds Kody’s gears because Logan is his FIRST BORN SON and wants nothing to do with plural marriage at all. I don’t think Kody was pleased when Leon came out, but I do believe with 18 kids, if one doesn’t follow your lifestyle you are less impacted because of the 17 others. So I don’t think Leon’s coming out affected Kody all that much. 
 

I don’t think any of the kids will live in a way Kody thinks is “righteous”. Statistically most will probably partner in heterosexual marriages and have a couple of kids, but that’s as close to Kody’s ideal as anyone will get. 

[ginger90]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

With Aspyn, she married a similarly aged guy AFTER she finished college,

Aspyn actually graduated after she got married. They moved to Utah the same day, and she started a new job there.

Edited November 26, 2022 by ginger90

[gingerella]

3 hours ago, LilyD said:

But what about Kody? On the show he pretends to be ok with it, but I don’t believe it, considering his background and all the things he said on the show. I think that privately, he’s angry and upset by the direction his family is going. I think he’s angry with being ignored and feels betrayed by his wives who do little to “correct” this and keep supporting their children.  Nobody cares what he thinks of it, which is very hard for someone who wants to be in charge and wants to be important. There is nothing left of his ideal world with everyone living together in a polygamist setting with him as a patriarch. And apart from feeling betrayed, he is also aware that he failed as a patriarch and in building his ideal world. It’s all the fault of his kids and Janelle, Christine and Meri.

And here we have another reason for Kody only being with Robyn. She seems to still embrace parts of their religion, raises her kids secluded from the rest (the pandemic was perfect for keeping them out of school) and she gives Kody the idea that she listens to him and his rules. Whether or not she is sincere is a different matter, but he thinks she is and still worships and supports him.

Hmmm, I was going to write about this today anyway but your above post made me sit down and do it. I agree with the first part, he is angry and frustrated that nobody listens to him because he should be treated like the KING that he is in his own tiny mind.

BUT, I think the reason he is only interested in Robyn has to do with Robyn wanting a man to take care of her and her kids so she didnt have to do that anymore. I think as a single mom, she was searching for a man who would rescue her, and here comes Mr. Save-A-Ho, his noodle ramen locks  blowing in the breeze, ready to take on her, her kids, more kids, and all her accumulated debt! I truly believe that if, when she'd met Kotex, he was just a single guy or a single divorced guy, she still would have married him so she could have someone rescue her because she's too lazy to take care of herself. Period. I believe that being spiritually called to live The Principle wasn't even in her mind because when Christine asked her what called her to live The Principle, she looked totally blank and like she had no clue what Christine was talking about, and she never really answered the question either. Why? Because she didn't know about The Principle, she only knew this guy was willing to take her on, pay off her debt, and she'd have full time babysitters to help raise her kids. So yeah, she acts the part of dutiful plyg sisterwife by treating Kotex like the King he thinks he is, she defers to him on everything to help reinforce that mindset. She probably told her three existing kids they better act like King Kotex is their entire world because 'remember how we were living before? We could be there again if you don't mind King Kotex!' So Sobyn and her brood act like Kotex walks on water, which plays right into the fantasy trope that Kotex wants to believe in.

In fact, I don't think Robyn gives a shit about plural marriage, The Principle, or any of the other AUB-type stuff. I think it's all an elaborate act to not lose her meal ticket. And going back to the beginning of what I said above, she has slowly been chipping away at the other three wives until she's the last one standing. She is the winner, she gets all the money, all the attention, all of Ramen head.

Remember when Kody had The Talk with Meri about how 'OMG, the authorities, the State, could come and take away Robyn's kids any time, because we're not married! They don't have health insurance because Robyn and I are not married', or some such nonsense! Well, nobody took away Christine, Meri, or Janelle's kids, and I assume they all had insurance coverage. So why did Kotex really want to divorce Meri and legally marry Robyn? Because he saw how dutiful and obedient she was and that's what he wanted his legal wife to be like. I think the urgency of 'what about the kids' was just bullshit that he made up, either with or without Robyn's knowledge, to whip up fearmongering, which he did when they moved from Lehi too.

Basically, Kody Brown is a narcissistic, selfish, misogynistic wet fart. And the fact that his oldest child and eldest son has taken a mainstream societal path in his own life, and doesn't want children really says it all, doesn't it? It's a 110% rejection of everything that Kotex stands for. Every.Thing. And I'm here for that!

[Elizzikra]

Quote

 think the reason he is only interested in Robyn has to do with Robyn wanting a man to take care of her and her kids so she didnt have to do that anymore. 

I disagree. I think Kody is in love with Robyn and Robyn with Kody - for the same reasons that any two people fall in love. And I think that has been a significant factor in the decline of Kody's other three marriages. I think when it was just Kody and the OG wives, while he may have had a favorite at various times, he was never "in love" with any of them. I think that made it all bearable for all of them. 

But I think it was too much for Christine (and probably Meri and Janelle) to have to live, day in and day out, watching a man that they love, being in love with someone when he couldn't or wouldn't be in love with them. I also think that Kody could no longer fake it with the three wives that he didn't love when he had this person he did love standing right next to him, being in love right back. It impacted his (already limited) ability to be even basically kind and considerate to the OG wives and left him with a lasting resentment that he doesn't acknowledge or address.

[GeeGolly]

3 hours ago, gingerella said:

Remember when Kody had The Talk with Meri about how 'OMG, the authorities, the State, could come and take away Robyn's kids any time, because we're not married! They don't have health insurance because Robyn and I are not married', or some such nonsense! Well, nobody took away Christine, Meri, or Janelle's kids, and I assume they all had insurance coverage. So why did Kotex really want to divorce Meri and legally marry Robyn? Because he saw how dutiful and obedient she was and that's what he wanted his legal wife to be like. I think the urgency of 'what about the kids' was just bullshit that he made up, either with or without Robyn's knowledge, to whip up fearmongering, which he did when they moved from Lehi too.

I agree marrying Robyn so he could adopt her kids was all bullshit, but Robyn's kids weren't Kody's and they weren't married so they wouldn't be covered under his insurance if he had any. Also he was under no obligation to support them either. The whole thing was one of the first traps Robyn set.

[Teri313]

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

Remember when Kody had The Talk with Meri about how 'OMG, the authorities, the State, could come and take away Robyn's kids any time, because we're not married! They don't have health insurance because Robyn and I are not married', or some such nonsense! Well, nobody took away Christine, Meri, or Janelle's kids, and I assume they all had insurance coverage. So why did Kotex really want to divorce Meri and legally marry Robyn? Because he saw how dutiful and obedient she was and that's what he wanted his legal wife to be like. I think the urgency of 'what about the kids' was just bullshit that he made up, either with or without Robyn's knowledge, to whip up fearmongering, which he did when they moved from Lehi too.

I believe they were actually hand-wringing over the kids' OWN FATHER being able to take custody of them if something happened to Robyn. Can you imagine? They might have to leave the plyg family of strangers and live with their own dad. I really wish we knew why he caved to them.

[mythoughtis]

9 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I wouldn’t consider Maddie or Aspyn’s courtships “traditional”. Yes they both married guys from their community, but Maddie’s husband is MUCH older than her (wasn’t he 31 to her 19?

According to the internet, Caleb was born in 1987 and Maddie was born in 1995. So he is 8 years older than her.  They got married in 2016.  

[LilyD]

10 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I agree marrying Robyn so he could adopt her kids was all bullshit, but Robyn's kids weren't Kody's and they weren't married so they wouldn't be covered under his insurance if he had any. Also he was under no obligation to support them either. The whole thing was one of the first traps Robyn set.

True when it comes to Robyn's kids. But what about most of the other kids? I should probably start with highlighting a situation a long time ago regarding either Mykelti or Maddie. She had an appendicitis and required emergency surgery. It wasn't covered by Kody's insurance because Kody wasn't officially listed as her dad, or so they said at the time. The wives also explained that this was because they were afraid of being outed as polygamists. 

According to American law, the husband is father to every child born or conceived within the marriage. So from that point of view, we can say that Kody is the legal parent to Leon and Ari only. All other kids were not born within a legal marriage. That made Christine and Janelle the primary custodian (and Robyn to Sol) and Kody nothing at all. Kody can have his legal rights officiated if he goes to court, but we can be fairly certain he never did so as it would have cost a lot of money and drew unwanted attention (at the time). He is probably listed on the birth certificates of Sol and Truely as their births were on the show, but I am not sure if that grants any legal parental rights without court interference.

So, my point:  if Kody never sorted these things out officially, he is nothing to most of his kids from a legal point of view. Just their bio-dad. And that makes their situation almost equal to Robyn's first three kids, he is nothing to them either. That's another reason why I seriously doubted the "adoption" scene.  

[GeeGolly]

5 minutes ago, LilyD said:

True when it comes to Robyn's kids. But what about most of the other kids? I should probably start with highlighting a situation a long time ago regarding either Mykelti or Maddie. She had an appendicitis and required emergency surgery. It wasn't covered by Kody's insurance because Kody wasn't officially listed as her dad, or so they said at the time. The wives also explained that this was because they were afraid of being outed as polygamists. 

According to American law, the husband is father to every child born or conceived within the marriage. So from that point of view, we can say that Kody is the legal parent to Leon and Ari only. All other kids were not born within a legal marriage. That made Christine and Janelle the primary custodian (and Robyn to Sol) and Kody nothing at all. Kody can have his legal rights officiated if he goes to court, but we can be fairly certain he never did so as it would have cost a lot of money and drew unwanted attention (at the time). He is probably listed on the birth certificates of Sol and Truely as their births were on the show, but I am not sure if that grants any legal parental rights without court interference.

So, my point:  if Kody never sorted these things out officially, he is nothing to most of his kids from a legal point of view. Just their bio-dad. And that makes their situation almost equal to Robyn's first three kids, he is nothing to them either. That's another reason why I seriously doubted the "adoption" scene.  

I see what you're saying, but being a bio-dad matters, whether he is on the birth certificates or not. Legally "baby daddies" are responsible for the children they help conceive. Sure, there may be blood tests and courts involved, but they would be entitled to anything a child born during a legal marriage would be entitled to. A step-child is not.

But we both agree it was all bullshit. Single dads adopt kids all the time and Kody would have had the blessing of both Robyn and the bio-dad to adopt them, so I'm thinking it could have been done without the marriage. Robyn is a masterful sneak and she's sitting right where she wants to be.

[LilyD]

5 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

but being a bio-dad matters, whether he is on the birth certificates or not. Legally "baby daddies" are responsible for the children they help conceive. Sure, there may be blood tests and courts involved, but they would be entitled to anything a child born during a legal marriage would be entitled to.

Which is what I meant with Kody needing to go to court, which he very likely didn't. And as long as he hasn't sorted that out, he is nothing to them from a legal point of view. He is entitled to parental rights, but he'll have to do something for it first. 😉

[GeeGolly]

Just now, LilyD said:

Which is what I meant with Kody needing to go to court, which he very likely didn't. And as long as he hasn't sorted that out, he is nothing to them from a legal point of view. He is entitled to parental rights, but he'll have to do something for it first. 😉

For sure, or his kids and wife can do something about it too.

[Onecattoo]

The way Kody keeps going on and on about “everyone” hating him and thinking he’s the bad guy, I think it’s clear no small number of his adult children have actually told him outright they think he is a crap father and a worse husband to their mothers.  Maybe not Maddie, Mykelti or Aspen, or Logan who simply shows it through his actions, but certainly the other adult sons and likely Gwen.  Something like that would truly feed his rage as King of the family.   

[GeeGolly]

I know I'm a loner in this, but I see Kody's relationship with his kids differently, through their statements and actions.

As far as holidays and random visits go, as I said before it all looks very typical to me. I'm fortunate that my kids live nearby and I see them all the time, but my inlaws have always lived a 6 hour car ride away and a plane ride away. We see the 6 hour side of the family 1 - 3 times a year and see the plane ride side, maybe once a year or every two years. It has nothing to do with who we like. It has everything to do with life, including work schedules, finances, health, etc.

As far as Kody and his kids speaking out about disagreements and such, I think that is what it is for most of them - just disagreements. I think most of his kids are just living their lives and what we see are just snapshots in time. Folks in general, and relatives as well, can love and even like other folks and relatives even if they're jerks. I'm guessing that is where most of the Brown children fall.

Edited November 27, 2022 by GeeGolly

[altopower]

28 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

As far as holidays and random visits go, as I said before it all looks very typical to me.

It does to me, too. I lived 1600 miles away from my bio family for most of my life. Loved them but only saw them once a year or so. When you don't see people often, disagreements can either get blown out of proportion or get brushed aside for the chance to see each other.

I think Covid played a big part these last 2 years (or the last 2 that were filmed) because Kody's protoculls kept people even more apart. Kody made no effort that we saw to visit kids that lived far away. I also think it suited him to do so; he could have managed it if he wanted to make it happen.

[dariafan]

When janelle shoots down his dumb ideas, why can he not finish a sentence ?  He should if his thinking was actually logical    And why dues he say it would be easy to buy Christine’s house ?   She does not have to accept his offer 

[Onecattoo]

51 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I know I'm a loner in this, but I see Kody's relationship with his kids differently, through their statements and actions.

As far as holidays and random visits go, as I said before it all looks very typical to me. I'm fortunate that my kids live nearby and I see them all the time, but my inlaws have always lived a 6 hour car ride away and a plane ride away. We see the 6 hour side of the family 1 - 3 times a year and see the plane ride side, maybe once a year or every two years. It has nothing to do with who we like. It has everything to do with life, including work schedules, finances, health, etc.

As far as Kody and his kids speaking out about disagreements and such, I think that is what it is for most of them - just disagreements. I think most of his kids are just living their lives and what we see are just snapshots in time. Folks in general, and relatives as well, can love and even like other folks and relatives even if they're jerks. I'm guessing that is where must of the Brown children fall.

My adult daughter and my young, at home daughters grandparents lives 2-4 hours away, we didn’t see them in person for almost 2 years due to Covid, but we video called 1-2x a week during that time…because it is important to be connected to your family.  If they’d been close enough for outdoor visiting during that time, it would have happened regularly.  Kody couldn’t bother telephoning, FaceTiming or making outdoor visits to his kids who live in the same town, for months at a time.  He simply is a crap father. 

[smarty]

13 minutes ago, dariafan said:

When janelle shoots down his dumb ideas, why can he not finish a sentence ?  He should if his thinking was actually logical    And why dues he say it would be easy to buy Christine’s house ?   She does not have to accept his offer 

Christine couldn't afford to give Janelle a discount on her house, she needed every last bit of equity to move on.  Janelle could literally buy any other house in Flagstaff for $700,000 (that's what Christine got for her house) and come out the same as buying Christine's house - since the mortgage lender isn't going to care that it is her sister wife's house.  Kudos to Janelle for not letting Kody talk to her into buying Christine's house when it wasn't her dream house.

Edited November 27, 2022 by smarty

[LilyD]

And don’t forget that he could not be bothered to visit those who live a stone throw away like Gabe, Garrison, Ysabel or Truely.

Kody keeps on using Sol and Ari as an excuse for not being able to visit or stay with the others, but he has no problems doing so with Truely who is just a little older than Sol…..

Edited November 27, 2022 by LilyD
Added to visit

[Scarlett45]

15 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Aspyn actually graduated after she got married. They moved to Utah the same day, and she started a new job there.

Thanks! So Aspyn dated Mitch in college, they got married and she graduated pretty soon after that. 

9 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

According to the internet, Caleb was born in 1987 and Maddie was born in 1995. So he is 8 years older than her.  They got married in 2016.  

Thank you. So she was 21 and he was 29, not as bad as I thought.

1 hour ago, Onecattoo said:

The way Kody keeps going on and on about “everyone” hating him and thinking he’s the bad guy, I think it’s clear no small number of his adult children have actually told him outright they think he is a crap father and a worse husband to their mothers.  Maybe not Maddie, Mykelti or Aspen, or Logan who simply shows it through his actions, but certainly the other adult sons and likely Gwen.  Something like that would truly feed his rage as King of the family.   

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I know I'm a loner in this, but I see Kody's relationship with his kids differently, through their statements and actions.

As far as holidays and random visits go, as I said before it all looks very typical to me. I'm fortunate that my kids live nearby and I see them all the time, but my inlaws have always lived a 6 hour car ride away and a plane ride away. We see the 6 hour side of the family 1 - 3 times a year and see the plane ride side, maybe once a year or every two years. It has nothing to do with who we like. It has everything to do with life, including work schedules, finances, health, etc.

As far as Kody and his kids speaking out about disagreements and such, I think that is what it is for most of them - just disagreements. I think most of his kids are just living their lives and what we see are just snapshots in time. Folks in general, and relatives as well, can love and even like other folks and relatives even if they're jerks. I'm guessing that is where most of the Brown children fall.

@Onecattoo and @GeeGolly I see what you guys are saying. I also think personality plays into this. Kody is the type that things that if someone isn’t kissing his ass they “hate him”. A child with a personality like Logan, is probably happy to live his own life and not pay Kody much attention, is fine being around him in a group but doesn’t go out of his way to “make room” for Kody in his life. A child with a personality like Gabe or Garrison will “butt heads” because they don’t care about making waves and want Kody to ACKNOWLEDGE where they think he messed up. I really think that middle group of kids (Hunter- Gwen) had it hardest in a lot of ways, when TLC showed up they were in the middle of their developmental years, all the moves affected them the most. 
 

Also with a family that large, you’re going to get a wide range of reactions to Kody’s parenting choices, some may be okay with Kody, some might not be able to stand him, some may deeply love him while acknowledging how their siblings feel (like Mykelti). 
 

I also think Kody is so self righteous he’s fine having piss poor relationships with some of the kids because he’s just got so many, so long as a few “adore him” he’s fine with it. 

7 minutes ago, LilyD said:

And don’t forget that he could not be bothered to visit those who live a stone throw away like Gabe, Garrison, Ysabel or Truely.

Kody keeps on using Sol and Ari as an excuse for not being able to visit or stay with the others, but he has no problems doing so with Truely who is just a little older than Sol…..

But Truely is not Robyn’s kid and Robyn’s kids come first with him. I am sure we have all seen situations in our lives where a guy (it’s usually a guy but I’ve seen this with women to) favors the children from the relationship they are most involved in at the moment and although they acknowledge their other children, it’s clear the children of their preferred partner is the priority. Of course I’m not saying this is RIGHT, the kids didn’t ask to be here, but it’s not uncommon and I’m not surprised. We can still call Kody out for it. 

[GeeGolly]

34 minutes ago, Onecattoo said:

My adult daughter and my young, at home daughters grandparents lives 2-4 hours away, we didn’t see them in person for almost 2 years due to Covid, but we video called 1-2x a week during that time…because it is important to be connected to your family.  If they’d been close enough for outdoor visiting during that time, it would have happened regularly.  Kody couldn’t bother telephoning, FaceTiming or making outdoor visits to his kids who live in the same town, for months at a time.  He simply is a crap father. 

I totally agree Kody is a crap father.

[Celia Rubenstein]

25 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

...  I am sure we have all seen situations in our lives where a guy (it’s usually a guy but I’ve seen this with women to) favors the children from the relationship they are most involved in at the moment and although they acknowledge their other children, it’s clear the children of their preferred partner is the priority.  ...

This is a valid point.

I think the age of the kids is a very important factor too, especially when you are talking about a narcissist like Kody. Narcissists love to be adored and little kids can be extremely adoring.  Even worshipful.  And a narcissist enjoys the attention they get for being a "great dad."  Sol and Ari are little and according to Robyn, Kody is indispensable to them. He's gonna hang where he gets his ego fed (which explains why he is ok ignoring little Truely - her mother undercuts his enjoyment, which is what matters to him most, not his kids).

Kody did seem to really enjoy his OG kids when they were young.   But he seemed to sort of lose interest in them as they grew up - he actually used to look baffled all the time, like he didn't know how to relate to them as human who were no longer toddlers and didn't bow to his every whim.

 It appears his closest relationships are with the ones that have remained "loyal" to him and treat him with what he considers "respect."  I think that means basically they never call him out on his shit. But look at his relationships with the ones who have dared to question him.  They don't fit into the family any more.  What a thing to say  ... because they don't worship him any longer they are no longer a part of their own family in his eyes.  The hubris of such a statement is appalling. 

26 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Kody is the type that things that if someone isn’t kissing his ass they “hate him”.

Exactly.  Classic narcissist.

[Scarlett45]

13 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I think the age of the kids is a very important factor too, especially when you are talking about a narcissist like Kody. Narcissists love to be adored and little kids can be extremely adoring.  Even worshipful.  And a narcissist enjoys the attention they get for being a "great dad."  Sol and Ari are little and according to Robyn, Kody is indispensable to them. He's gonna hang where he gets his ego fed (which explains why he is ok ignoring little Truely - her mother undercuts his enjoyment, which is what matters to him most, not his kids).

I definitely agree with this. Children are HARDWIRED to follow their first caregivers. Small children are physically more demanding, but emotionally quite easy. If you show them love and kindness they will adore you. They don’t care about any of your “faults” the way an adult would. And let’s not forget when the kids were small, the Moms were doing most of the physical work of caregiving- Kody just got to be adored. 

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Single dads adopt kids all the time and Kody would have had the blessing of both Robyn and the bio-dad to adopt them, so I'm thinking it could have been done without the marriage.

I don't think this is the case, actually. There is state law in all states (though the laws vary) about who can be adopted and who can adopt. I used to work in adoption and I don't know of a case where a man (not legally married to the mother) adopted children and the birth mother retained her parental rights. I could definitely be wrong and I don't think there was much formal benefit to Kody adopting Robyn's kids (health insurance would have been a big one but I don't think he has it). I think it's just what Kody and Robyn wanted to do, plus I think that both Robyn and Kody wanted Robyn to be the legal wife and this was a good excuse.

Quote

Christine couldn't afford to give Janelle a discount on her house, she needed every last bit of equity to move on.  Janelle could literally buy any other house in Flagstaff for $700,000 (that's what Christine got for her house) and come out the same as buying Christine's house - since the mortgage lender isn't going to care that it is her sister wife's house.  Kudos to Janelle for not letting Kody talk to her into buying Christine's house when it wasn't her dream house.

The only benefit I can see is that Christine could let Janelle move in immediately instead of waiting for closing. She wouldn't need to be keeping the house clean for showing and Janelle wouldn't need temporary housing. Also, I'm sure Kody thinks that he can a) negotiate Christine down on the price and b) finance the house purchase within their already fragile Brown family house of cards financial structure instead of having to deal again with conventional lenders and their annoying insistence on a downpayment and good credit.

Speaking of the Brown family finances (which are endlessly fascinating to me)... I was talking to my endlessly patient husband who is amused by my interest in this show. I was trying to explain their financial shenanigans and my incredulity that they can still get loans of any kind from a conventional lender. He wondered if, as part of their compensation, TLC actually co-signs the loans to keep the show going. It gives the Browns storylines and when the Browns can't pay, TLC would then cover the payments until the assets are sold. It sounds a little farfetched but I wonder...

[Absolom]

I think TLC co-signing is highly unlikely.  That isn't how these things go.  They'd pay rent for a contractual period on something, lease something themselves, or give the participant money for a down payment perhaps, but not enter into any open ended arrangements like co-signing unless it was something like a six month lease.  

[gingerella]

On 11/27/2022 at 9:50 AM, Elizzikra said:

The only benefit I can see is that Christine could let Janelle move in immediately instead of waiting for closing. She wouldn't need to be keeping the house clean for showing and Janelle wouldn't need temporary housing. Also, I'm sure Kody thinks that he can a) negotiate Christine down on the price and b) finance the house purchase within their already fragile Brown family house of cards financial structure instead of having to deal again with conventional lenders and their

I think you hit the nail on the head here. I think Kotex thought he could screw Christine over one last time while still getting a roof over Janelle's head. I dont think for a minute that he would have paid up for that house. A few good will payments up front, maybe, but Kody Brown is a scammer and a scammer never intends to do the right thing. I'd bet good money he would have tried to lowball Christine, and then would have tried to 'make a deal' with her citing his 'mumbo jumbo double-talk word salad' about how a personal and direct payment arrangement would be so much better for the family, blah blah blah fishcakes, so that he could reneg on payments. He is a scumbag.

Edited November 29, 2022 by gingerella

[dariafan]

Anyone else think he had to run right out and buy a snowblower ??

[Scarlett45]

On 11/26/2022 at 5:52 PM, Elizzikra said:

I disagree. I think Kody is in love with Robyn and Robyn with Kody - for the same reasons that any two people fall in love. And I think that has been a significant factor in the decline of Kody's other three marriages. I think when it was just Kody and the OG wives, while he may have had a favorite at various times, he was never "in love" with any of them. I think that made it all bearable for all of them. 

But I think it was too much for Christine (and probably Meri and Janelle) to have to live, day in and day out, watching a man that they love, being in love with someone when he couldn't or wouldn't be in love with them. I also think that Kody could no longer fake it with the three wives that he didn't love when he had this person he did love standing right next to him, being in love right back. It impacted his (already limited) ability to be even basically kind and considerate to the OG wives and left him with a lasting resentment that he doesn't acknowledge or address.

I agree with this. I do think plural marriage can work (as much as anything) but NOT if romantic love and sexual passion are incredibly important to someone when choosing a partner. (and for most people in 21st century North American culture it usually is) I do think at one point Kody was in love with Meri.

I think Janelle was never in love with Kody either (I think Janelle is aromantic, I have discussed that before) so she was the least affected, but she didnt appreciate unfair treatment, and Kody being an asshat, couldn't even be in love with Robyn and remain "fair" in treatment of his wives, because its all about him and his needs. Think of it in the case of monarchs/wealthy men who were actually in love with their official mistress, but were kind and considerate to their wives- followed the social rules, did not embarrass their wife, but it was known that they were IN LOVE with the mistress they chose, and married the wife for other reasons. Kody had no more motivation to be considerate to Christine because Robyn was meeting his emotional needs.

Kody is now middled aged and tired. He doesnt have the energy or desire to attend to as many people's feelings as he once did (and he's also a jerk), and now that most of the kids have been raised, he's throwing in the towel to ride off into the sunset with the woman he actually wants. But you know, Christine is supposed to want him because he the king of everything.

[GeeGolly]

I think Janelle was in love with Kody - as much as she would allow herself to be. She has said she didn't think she needed, what she thought of as romantic love, but then found out with the help of their wacky therapist she not only needed it she enjoyed it, and, it didn't need to be wine and dine and lets have sex love, it could be emotional closeness. But... she still held Kody at an arm's length and he willingly stayed there.

I think what we are seeing now is Janelle coming alive with feelings because she has a genuine close relationship with Christine. Janelle's NV loneliness, exacerbated by the pandemic, finally made her needy enough to grab hold of a relationship and let it bloom. *Christine has been that person. What happens to someone who finally allows themselves to feel emotions, they start to feel them all whether they want to or not.

So while I believe Janelle was attracted to and loved Kody, I think her relation with Christine is the first real relationship Janelle has ever had. This relationship with Christine is also allowing Janelle to see more clearly all the ways Kody falls short.

*I'm not implying Janelle has fallen in love with Christine in a sexual way, but I believe she has fallen in love with Christine in an intimate, deep friendship way.

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I think Janelle was in love with Kody - as much as she would allow herself to be. She has said she didn't think she needed, what she thought of as romantic love, but then found out with the help of their wacky therapist she not only needed it she enjoyed it, and, it didn't need to be wine and dine and lets have sex love, it could be emotional closeness. But... she still held Kody at an arm's length and he willingly stayed there.

I think what we are seeing now is Janelle coming alive with feelings because she has a genuine close relationship with Christine. Janelle's NV loneliness, exacerbated by the pandemic, finally made her needy enough to grab hold of a relationship and let it bloom. *Christine has been that person. What happens to someone who finally allows themselves to feel emotions, they start to feel them all whether they want to or not.

So while I believe Janelle was attracted to and loved Kody, I think her relation with Christine is the first real relationship Janelle has ever had. This relationship with Christine is also allowing Janelle to see more clearly all the ways Kody falls short.

*I'm not implying Janelle has fallen in love with Christine in a sexual way, but I believe she has fallen in love with Christine in an intimate, deep friendship way.

Taking my reply to the Janelle thread. 

[dariafan]

What is he peeling logs for ?  He spends a lot of time doing that and I don’t know why 

[Shelbie]

I think Kody thinks it makes him look manly.
In his head it is a good excuse for not doing anything when he’s tired of sitting in his closet thinking his deep thoughts.

[Elizzikra]

3 hours ago, dariafan said:

What is he peeling logs for ?  He spends a lot of time doing that and I don’t know why 

He spoke about this in a TH, I think last week. I didn't really listen, as ... well, it was Kody. I think that he peels them to sell them? I'm guessing he is selling them for flooring or building, as I don't think he would need to peel them to sell them for firewood.

[monagatuna]

Wouldn't they need to be milled for use in building or flooring? I highly doubt he is sourcing wood to a milling company, which likely has much better sources of raw wood. A quick Google search shows two main reasons: building furniture and building a log cabin. In no way would Kody have the talent or ethic to do either. I'm casting my vote for "it makes him look manly," with a side of "maybe he can sell them to a homesteader."

[GeeGolly]

Kody's probably wants a little log cabin for Ari. For Ari to live in. For Ari to live in by herself.

[RazzleberryPie]

Peeling logs makes him look busy and manly. He’s one of those people always flirting around frantic like he has so much to do, but actually doesn’t really do anything of value or worth. Looks busy, accomplishes nothing useful. 

[laurakaye]

On 11/29/2022 at 12:41 PM, dariafan said:

Anyone else think he had to run right out and buy a snowblower ??

Not only that, he had to buy a much bigger and more powerful snowblower than the one Christine wouldn't give him, guaranteed.

Kody seems to have a hierarchy with his kids and while it's all kinds of messed up, it's oddly fascinating.  I have blathered before about this, but he seems to have a group of kids he seems to be afraid to disparage on tv (Logan, Hunter, Leon, Aspyn), a group he largely ignores (Mykelti, Truely, Maddie, Savanah, Gwen, Ysabel) and a group he actively despises (Garrison, Gabe, Paedon).  And yet, none of these kids are living plyg, and I think the vast majority of those kids don't necessarily agree with Kody's views on other major things, and from what we've seen, none of them spends any real time with Kody in general.  To me it smacks of major bullying - he likes to pick on certain kids, but I can't understand why some of his kids are fair game for treating like dirt and others aren't.  It's all disgusting, to be sure.  He's a horrible parent whether he's talking smack about them on the show or he's forgotten they even exist.  I can't think of one kid in that family that wouldn't need and/or benefit from some serious counseling.

[Absolom]

45 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

I can't think of one kid in that family that wouldn't need and/or benefit from some serious counseling.

And all the distance they can manage from deranged Kody.

[xwordfanatik]

4 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Peeling logs makes him look busy and manly. He’s one of those people always flirting around frantic like he has so much to do, but actually doesn’t really do anything of value or worth. Looks busy, accomplishes nothing useful. 

Haha, I worked with some of that sort.  😡  You have described Kootie to a T, IMO.  

[toodywoody]

4 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Peeling logs makes him look busy and manly. He’s one of those people always flirting around frantic like he has so much to do, but actually doesn’t really do anything of value or worth. Looks busy, accomplishes nothing useful. 

This right here. Or the person that claims they are so busy and tells everyone about how busy they are at work, but is always seen standing around doing nothing.

[gingerella]

7 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Peeling logs makes him look busy and manly. He’s one of those people always flirting around frantic like he has so much to do, but actually doesn’t really do anything of value or worth. Looks busy, accomplishes nothing useful. 

But isn't this a typical narcissist MO? They're King Shit of the World, in their mind...

[Rabbit Hutch]

Listening to Kootie's delusional rants and observing how proudly he admits to engaging in "creative" machinations in attempting to get over on both Christine and Janelle, it's apparent there was a bold new influence on Kootie and his twisted worldview this season.

I believe he's spent some quality time alone in his closet with his laptop searching through the internet, visiting websites created for men who believe they have been deceived or wronged by their wives in one form or another. They now  have the right to act any way they like, and treat their wives like crap.  These type of men are butt-hurt and bitter.  He also probably meets these like-minded misogynists at places he frequents for work.

In other words, he was a prime candidate for the internet version of the He-Man, Woman Haters Club.  He certainly is acting like a 10-year old. 

Edited December 8, 2022 by Rabbit Hutch

[dariafan]

If kooties for brains really and truly ( truly scrumptious) believed in the polygamy system, Robyn counts be head wife as she doesn’t have the most children.    She might be 2nd since Janelle has the most boys.  I’m just saying he may want to read a book or something 

[altopower]

Does Kody really believe all the crap he's spewing about Christine and Janelle? Or did he ramp it all up to make them leave HIM so they would look like the evil malcontents and he would still be in good standing with the church they no longer attend?

[Scarlett45]

On 12/7/2022 at 8:39 AM, laurakaye said:

To me it smacks of major bullying - he likes to pick on certain kids, but I can't understand why some of his kids are fair game for treating like dirt and others aren't.  It's all disgusting, to be sure.  He's a horrible parent whether he's talking smack about them on the show or he's forgotten they even exist.  I can't think of one kid in that family that wouldn't need and/or benefit from some serious counseling.

Bullies like to get a reaction out of people. Kody probably doesn’t pick on the kids that would cut him off emotionally, he can’t threaten them with anything (like a loss of favor) because they don’t care. The kids he ignores he has nothing in common with and he doesn’t see as worthy of his notice. The kids he despises have challenged him in some way but don’t have the status (socially or within the family) to cut him off completely (this may change once these kids are full fledged earning adults). 
 

It’s not that odd considering he had so many kids. Of course I think Kody is an asshat, but with 18 kids, I wouldn’t expect him to have stellar relationships with all or even most of them. On a personality level, he was going to get along well with a certain number and he’s not self aware enough (as well as being older and tired) to make an effort with the rest. In addition to just being a jerk. 

[Absolom]

In general it seems the older and more independent the adult kids have gotten, the less they have to do with Kody.  In some respect that's normal, but I think it's more extreme in Kody's case.  They know that they will get very little in return for their investment.  

[mythoughtis]

2 minutes ago, Absolom said:

In general it seems the older and more independent the adult kids have gotten, the less they have to do with Kody.  In some respect that's normal, but I think it's more extreme in Kody's case.  They know that they will get very little in return for their investment.  

I think some have disassociated themselves for self preservation - as in Garrison and Gabe.  Gabe in particular seems like a very quiet and sensitive person and dealing with Kody’s personality is   probably overly stressful for him.