S02.E08: Zoey’s Extraordinary Birthday

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

It's Zoey's 30th birthday, but before she can celebrate properly she must confront her unresolved feelings for the men in her life.

Airing Sunday, April 4, 2021.

 

[ams1001]

Did I miss anything worth going back to watch in the first few minutes? I got home late and came in while Max and Rose were singing in the restaurant.

Loved the Zoey bar with the cute shirt cake.

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I haven't watched the episode yet but I already feel for Zoey because as much as it sucks to celebrate holidays, birthdays, and other milestones without your dad for the rest of your life, that first one really hurts.

[roctavia]

Ugh... I so dislike love triangles.... I don't have an issue with Zoey/Simon, but they haven't made one of the guys a complete ass (since they've both had moments of being not perfect) so I don't like the hurt feelings as she goes back and forth between guys... I'm glad they at least have a new love interest for Max while they are going the Zoey/Simon route.  

I expected the Aiden thing to be about Zoey once he started talking about a girl... I'm glad the band thing was short lived and David can find his own dad band. 

Zoey's party was fun and I enjoyed the music again this episode. I do wish there were a little more plot points that don't revolve around romantic relationships, but I suppose without the dying storyline, romance is a broad focus they can do with a lot of characters. 

Interesting twist with the fire marshal having kids, though a more adult partner is probably good for Mo. 

[shapeshifter]

42 minutes ago, roctavia said:

Ugh... I so dislike love triangles.... I don't have an issue with Zoey/Simon, but they haven't made one of the guys a complete ass (since they've both had moments of being not perfect) so I don't like the hurt feelings as she goes back and forth between guys... I'm glad they at least have a new love interest for Max while they are going the Zoey/Simon route.  

I too “dislike” (actually, hate) love triangles, but I think they’re sparing us that since we saw Max stroking the new old friend’s hair. 
My issue is that we saw and heard Zoey being very tone deaf WRT race issues a few episodes back, but now that’s not a thing anymore??? 
Kudos to John Clarence Stewart for making Simon’s attraction to Zoey feel real —I guess —it just seems like the show dropped the ball on the issue of race they were exploring. 

[phalange]

The “Kiss Me” scene at the party with all the different couples was my favorite of the episode. I like Mo and Perry, so even though him having kids was a shock to Mo, I hope it works out. Tobin and Mackenzie are cute, too. “You’re a Russian bot!”

Max’s present for Zoey was really sweet. And yes, A Moment Like This is America’s song, lol. I was hoping Max and Zoey would actually get back together, but alas, this love square will apparently be continuing for a bit. In fairness, I did like the choreography for the Zoey and Simon scene. 

The look of horror on David’s face when he realized Aiden’s song was about Zoey was hilarious. Him quitting the band is probably for the best. 

[memememe76]

I really enjoyed all the musical sequences tonight, and Kiss Me is a series highlight. Even the band’s inappropriate song was catchy. 

[funnygirl]

Anyone know how many episodes season 2 has? 

[Trini]

On 4/4/2021 at 10:01 PM, ams1001 said:

Did I miss anything worth going back to watch in the first few minutes? I got home late and came in while Max and Rose were singing in the restaurant.

There was a scene with Zoey's family at her mother's house about planning a party for her 30th; then Zoey at work inviting people to her party; then Mo and HoT Fire Inspector at Maximo's. So yeah, a few set up scenes at the start.

 

---------------------

 

Well, I wanted them to either quit teasing Zoey/Simon or just go for it, and they decided to go for it! I've wanted to see them together so this works for me. Although I'm a bit disappointed that Simon and Tatiana weren't a thing. [ETA: forgot to complete sentence] Let's see if they address that apparently Simon is Zoey's subordinate.

What doesn't work for me is the back-and-forth love triangle (square now) stuff when the showrunner said they were done with the triangle. Especially when I'm sure that she's going back to Max eventually. They shouldn't have had Zoey choose Max, then neglect that relationship for most of the season (so far) just for her to get with Simon - which is probably temporary. I like both pairings but to pick one and then backtrack is silly, when they said they wanted to be "mature" about the triangle.

I did like that we had some nice family moments, and Mitch was remembered and mentioned. I hope they can get Peter Gallagher for a guest spot again before the season ends, though. So with Zoey's brother starting a Dad Band, I guess that's another way to insert some songs. That works. She didn't really have a plot, but I was glad Emily was in this episode.

Aw, the candy and shirt -themed party for Zoey at SprqPoint was cute! It's kinda surprising how many people the show has had for group numbers in these past few episodes when there are other shows that are being very sparse about background extras.

I think I loved just about every musical number in this one, even Aiden's - which was hilariously cringe-y! "Kiss Me" was great; I liked how I thought it was a solo, but it turned into a duet then a group number. (Apparently, her birthday party made everyone... horny?) How much does it cost to use the "Happy Birthday" song again? I LOL'd when Zoey shut down that song!

Blowing out candles on a cake just has a different effect post-Covid.  😕

About the other relationships: I have a feeling that Mo/Hot Inspector isn't going to last. I don't think I buy Tobin and New Female Programmer I still don't know the name of. Especially from her side. Back to Zoey/Max: both are seemingly okay with each other moving on with other people - even though they were a couple at the start of the season and only decided to 'pause'. I feel like they did a bad job setting this up; as in, they didn't.

Missed Leif.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Trini
ugh posts merged

[funnygirl]

It seems like the showrunner is trying to justify walking back what was said to be Zoey's definitive choice at the beginning of the season by insinuating that Zoey can't really make her decision until she's been with both guys, which is ridiculous. Yes, Max has a new crush in town that's being entertained, but he's basically been waiting for Zoey to be ready to "un-pause". Instead, while Zoey's not ready (aka doesn't really want to?) to be with Max, she has no problem wanting to dive into her feelings for Simon - which is her prerogative, except she's coming off as a huge flake. She said it herself when they were talking in her bedroom: she doesn't want being with Simon to mean she loses Max as a friend. Max is a good dude, so he's not going to bolt on the friendship because of this, but that doesn't mean Zoey's not manipulating the situation so that she gets to have her cheesequake and eat it to. 

Never mind rooting for Zoey/Max or Zoey/Simon, as of now I'm not rooting for Zoey at all… which I'm pretty sure isn't supposed to be the intended feeling toward the shows lead. 

[Trini]

29 minutes ago, funnygirl said:

It seems like the showrunner is trying to justify walking back what was said to be Zoey's definitive choice at the beginning of the season by insinuating that Zoey can't really make her decision until she's been with both guys, which is ridiculous.

It is ridiculous; but it's a typical TV trope, so I don't know why the showrunner was trying to pretend they were doing something different here.

[ciubecca98]

since I have yet to see her ... so in the end Zoey wasn't ready for Max but is she ready for Simon?

PS: I hope right no would ridalize the thing and show a poor selfish Zoey to Max

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ha, I love that David had a bounce house for his 21st birthday!

The Zoey candy bar with the sweater cake was so perfect. I'm just sorry that Leif missed all of Zoey's birthday stuff because he was at a birding convention.

The song Aiden wrote for Zoey made me laugh SO HARD. It was like a peek inside a 15 year old boy's head with no filter. It reminded me of when Angela Chase heard Jordan Catalano sing his song "Red" except this time there was no ambiguity since the song was DEFINITELY about Zoey.

I do not like disco but I loved Don't Leave Me This Way. Like last week's Let's Get Loud, it was a fun dance number. I also really enjoyed Kiss Me so I guess I have missed the bigger group dances.

It was sad but realistic to see how Zoey dealt with her first birthday without her dad. It really is a roller coaster of emotions.

 

Kiss Me:

 

[ams1001]

8 hours ago, Trini said:

There was a scene with Zoey's family at her mother's house about planning a party for her 30th; then Zoey at work inviting people to her party; then Mo and HoT Fire Inspector at Maximo's. So yeah, a few set up scenes at the start.

Thanks; maybe I'll just watch the first few minutes on demand when I get home. (Enjoyed the episode but I don't think I need to watch the whole thing again.)

Glad David quit the band. Those scenes were so cringey.

7 hours ago, Trini said:

Blowing out candles on a cake just has a different effect post-Covid.  😕

OMG yes. We've only done the immediate family birthdays in the past year but my mom has made cupcakes for all of them, so the birthday person is only blowing on their own.

 

[allonsyalice]

That Kiss Me Sequence was beautiful, oh my god 

[Empress1]

12 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I haven't watched the episode yet but I already feel for Zoey because as much as it sucks to celebrate holidays, birthdays, and other milestones without your dad for the rest of your life, that first one really hurts.

I haven't watched the episode yet but my sibling's and my birthdays are both coming up and they will be our first ones without our dad, and I at least am dreading it. I had a really nice time with my dad on my last birthday and I'm almost scared of this first one without him. (And then Father's Day is not long after. The first year is really painful.)

[dubbel zout]

12 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Loved the Zoey bar with the cute shirt cake.

That cake was adorable. Zoey could have been more effusive in her thanks; there was too much "thanks, but..." in her tone. And I hated her waffling on the party. I found it a snooze, even with all of the "Kiss Me."

I loved David's growing, appalled realization that the song he'd contributed to was about his sister, and it's a relief he dropped out of that band. And hee to both Max and Simon immediately saying no to joining a band.

I don't know how much longer I can watch this, as I was bored last night. I'm tired of the triangle/quad. Why can't Zoey just be on her own for a bit? It's not the end of the world to be single. Ugh. Do better with that, Show.

[Trini]

16 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I don't know how much longer I can watch this, as I was bored last night. I'm tired of the triangle/quad. Why can't Zoey just be on her own for a bit? It's not the end of the world to be single. Ugh. Do better with that, Show.

What would you consider "a bit"? Because technically, she's only been not single for the two episodes when she was with Max.

[shapeshifter]

When I read that this show was on the bubble, it didn't matter to me, but after last night I at least appreciate all the effort that goes into it.
Maybe it's just not my thing and I'm only watching for the production quality?
I only ever watched a few episodes of Glee, and this show seems to be rerunning the romance dramas of which I am weary.
Still, I appreciate quality work, so I hope it continues, even if without me as a viewer.

 

12 hours ago, Trini said:

Blowing out candles on a cake just has a different effect post-Covid.  😕

Now that I'm more than 2 weeks post-2nd-vaccination, I didn't react to the candle blowing the way I would have a month ago. Interesting.

 

3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I haven't watched the episode yet but my sibling's and my birthdays are both coming up and they will be our first ones without our dad, and I at least am dreading it. I had a really nice time with my dad on my last birthday and I'm almost scared of this first one without him. (And then Father's Day is not long after. The first year is really painful.)

Having not been geographically close to my parents, I didn't experience my father's death the way Zoey and you have. Mom passed in August, and in going through a box that was sent, I just opened a high school yearbook of Dad's that I'd never seen. I can no longer verify that he wrote all the rhyming couplets under the senior pictures, but they are in his voice and style, and he is listed as being on the yearbook staff. It's been 5 years since he passed. I think I can appreciate this stuff more now.

Mom never recovered from Dad's death, instead progressively slipping away over the next 5 years. I'm glad we're not seeing that scenario here, but since we aren't it might be nice to see Zoey or her brother or sister-in-law ask their Mom to explain the significance of some memento. That could provide a wealth of short vignettes that would draw in the audience.

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by shapeshifter

[taragel]

Just saw this article w/a quote from Austin Winsberg re: the love triangle and whether or not it should be over. Kind of a weaseling-out answer if you ask me:

“I know there are some fans out there that feel like, ‘Wait a second, what happened, Austin? You said she was gonna make a choice in the beginning.’ And I think she did make the choice,” showrunner Austin Winsberg explains. “She tried to go for Max, and it’s just that the timing wasn’t right, and she wasn’t in the right space. And here we are, several episodes later, and people change over time, feelings change over time, and things get more complicated. I think she’s still not ready to fully commit to Max, and here Simon is in the wings, he’s still around, and Simon and Zoey do have that great bond and that undeniable chemistry.”

There's a lot more about how she's "not ready" to commit to Max because he's her bestie and that's more loaded, but... meh?  Because it's seemed from the start that she was just way more into Simon and couldn't really accept Max being out of the friend zone. So I can't see how that will be a satisfying endgame at this point.

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by taragel

[dubbel zout]

51 minutes ago, Trini said:

What would you consider "a bit"? Because technically, she's only been not single for the two episodes when she was with Max.

I would like her to not even think about whether she wants to be with Max or Simon for a while. No relationship stuff at all for a while.

I'm a dreamer.

[ciubecca98]

Now that Zoey has made his choice and came rose I hope to see some nice no .... by Max to Zoey, but if it actually starts with a relationship with Simon I would like Max to leave the I'm not ready for a relationship I need a break !!!! But surely you will never happen !!!

[tennisgurl]

I cant decide on my favorite unspoken reaction this episode, Zoey's confused expression at Tobin and Mackenzie's part of Kiss Me, or David's growing horror as he realizes he's playing along to a song about someone wanting to bang his sister. 

I really enjoy the big group numbers, so I loved Kiss Me, a song that I have always had a soft spot for. They have a great cast and I always like when they all get some time to shine. I like Mo's new guy, him having kids certainly shocked Mo, but I think a more mature love interest would be a nice change. Tobin and Mackenzie were cute together, I caught the flirt vibes as soon as they started arguing about phone size. "Your a Russian bot." Too bad Leif was off looking at birds, but he would have probably just been depressed with all this coupling considering how badly his last not relationship went. 

I am glad that David decided to find a dad band to join, his attempts to hang with the young people were super awkward. The birthday party Zoey's co-workers threw her was nice, even if I think she could have been a bit more appreciative. Then calling off the party then on again and being over it by the time the cake was cut, I get that Zoey was having a lot of conflicting feelings about this birthday without her dad, but she must be an exhausting person sometimes to be around, even beyond her seemingly erratic behavior due to her heartsongs. I guess I cant blame her this time too much, the first holiday after someone you love dies is always so hard, especially when Mitch was apparently such a fan of birthdays. It would just feel like there is this big hole there, and while it gets easier in the following years its always going to be missing something. 

I have always thought that Zoey was more into Simon than Max, and this just confirms it. She said she wanted to "press pause" on dating Max because she was still hurting so much after her dads death, but now not too long after she seems to be ready to be with Simon, so that should be that. She wasn't ready to be with Max and pulled back, but she is ready to be with Simon, so she has therefore chosen Simon. I think she mainly dated Max for awhile because she does really like him and didn't want to lose his friendship, and probably was/is attracted to him, but she always saw him as more of a friend. Zoey really just needs to make a choice or else it will feel like she is just jerking them both around, especially Max, because she cant make a choice, even though she really has seemingly decided already, she is just being wishy washy and wont admit to it. 

[FnkyChkn34]

11 hours ago, funnygirl said:

It seems like the showrunner is trying to justify walking back what was said to be Zoey's definitive choice at the beginning of the season by insinuating that Zoey can't really make her decision until she's been with both guys, which is ridiculous. Yes, Max has a new crush in town that's being entertained, but he's basically been waiting for Zoey to be ready to "un-pause". Instead, while Zoey's not ready (aka doesn't really want to?) to be with Max, she has no problem wanting to dive into her feelings for Simon - which is her prerogative, except she's coming off as a huge flake. She said it herself when they were talking in her bedroom: she doesn't want being with Simon to mean she loses Max as a friend. Max is a good dude, so he's not going to bolt on the friendship because of this, but that doesn't mean Zoey's not manipulating the situation so that she gets to have her cheesequake and eat it to. 

Never mind rooting for Zoey/Max or Zoey/Simon, as of now I'm not rooting for Zoey at all… which I'm pretty sure isn't supposed to be the intended feeling toward the shows lead. 

This happened to me in the Hunger Games.  I ended up hating Katniss and her complete lack of character growth...  I'm not sure yet if I'll agree that it's the same with Zoey here, but I definitely see where you are coming from.  

I think what I didn't like is that she told Mo that she wants someone to sing to her.  Well, maybe they didn't all sing, but she does have THREE guys who all want to be with her - it's her that can't make up her mind or pushes them away.  I don't feel any sympathy for her right now.

[D Angel]

Some random thoughts for S2 E8:

1) It's no longer a "love triangle" or anything resembling a recognizable shape. It's now a love tangle. Zoey made a mess of it and her character's favorable have to have fallen as a result. Even "Team Simon" doesn't seem all that enthused. Lots of contrived dynamics, like Simon/Tatiana interest being one-sided.

2) Zoey/Simon can never be real until she tells him everything. Like she has this weird power that a psychiatrist might diagnose as schizophrenia. That she first engaged Simon because she heard him singing his feelings and used that to engender herself to him based on their common pain because she had a crush on him. That she told Max and Mo about it and Max knew before they started their relationships and tried to work through her clear advantage over him in knowing his feelings. Let's see how Simon reacts to the truth about Zoey, then decide if it's a relationship worth pursuing.

3) Boy, I really wished Austin Winsberg didn't reduce the dimensions of the secondary characters pretty much across the board. David was a successful trial lawyer but can't read the room of 20-something musicians?

4) The "grief" story lines all seem forced. Compared to Simon's grief in S1, Zoey and her family's seems perfunctory, at least in the writing this season. It's obvious from who Mitch was that he'd want all of them to go on with their lives and be happy.

5) Fire inspector's voice reminded me of Lou Rawls. It's nice to have an adult in the room. Good plot twist in him having kids and how he talked to Mo about it. That's refreshing. Max & Zoey should have been able to have a similar conversation.

6) In the five years Max and Zoey worked side by side, did neither of them have a romantic relationship? In S1, Zoey even set up Max with the barista. So I'd say they are either a couple or they aren't. Zoey's default is "not" and Max seems to recognize it. She might simply be too flaky for Max (or anyone).

7) The previews teased perhaps step one in Zoey's spiritual journey, which if started sooner in the season might have given it the forward momentum is sorely lacks. (Sorry, Austin W.) Until Zoey understands how her power works, why she received it, and what it's greater purpose is, it might as well be a form of schizophrenia. Although, if that were her actual diagnosis, it might make for a compelling story line. Even in her prime romantic years, I have to think getting answers to those questions might be a little more important deciding which guy to date. If there was ever a better excuse for "It's not you it's me", I haven't heard it.

[dubbel zout]

9 minutes ago, D Angel said:

David was a successful trial lawyer but can't read the room of 20-something musicians?

I bought this because he was a) desperate for something to do outside caring for Miles, and b) always wanted to be in a band. And here was something that solved both problems, right in the neighborhood!

[Sarah 103]

15 hours ago, phalange said:

The “Kiss Me” scene at the party with all the different couples was my favorite of the episode. I like Mo and Perry, so even though him having kids was a shock to Mo, I hope it works out. Tobin and Mackenzie are cute, too. 

I liked "Kiss Me" too. I thought Zoey was going to see that Simon was not singing and wonder what was going on with his relationship. 

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Tobin and Mackenzie were cute together, I caught the flirt vibes as soon as they started arguing about phone size. 

Me too, but I thought they were going to drag it out a little longer. Also, if they become a couple, at some point they have to turn "You May Be Right" by Billy Joel or "Pink Cadillac" by Bruce Springsteen into a duet. I want to see Tobin and Mackenzie argue in song.  

15 hours ago, phalange said:

The look of horror on David’s face when he realized Aiden’s song was about Zoey was hilarious. Him quitting the band is probably for the best. 

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The song Aiden wrote for Zoey made me laugh SO HARD. It was like a peek inside a 15 year old boy's head with no filter. It reminded me of when Angela Chase heard Jordan Catalano sing his song "Red" except this time there was no ambiguity since the song was DEFINITELY about Zoey.

I'm not sure which is worse. Angela finding out "Red" is about the car instead of being about her, or Zoey realizing the song is about her. I was wondering how long it would take David to figure out the song was about his sister.

29 minutes ago, D Angel said:

David was a successful trial lawyer but can't read the room of 20-something musicians?

My guess is that it's something he turns on and off. When he needs to be hyperfocused on reactions in the courtroom, he notices every little detail. In his day to day life, he's more like a normal person. Also, he may have been so desperate for something that resembled adult interaction he was willing to ignore the signs. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

4 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I haven't watched the episode yet but my sibling's and my birthdays are both coming up and they will be our first ones without our dad, and I at least am dreading it. I had a really nice time with my dad on my last birthday and I'm almost scared of this first one without him. (And then Father's Day is not long after. The first year is really painful.)

I wish I could tell you that it definitely gets easier every year but Zoey's emotions in this episode were a pretty good encapsulation - it's very up and down. One minute you feel like you're dealing with it in a healthy way and the next minute you're spiraling because of something seemingly unrelated. I just had my seventh birthday since he passed away and although it was easier this year, watching this episode really brought up a lot of emotions. The pain gets less acute over time, but it's always still there.

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Having not been geographically close to my parents, I didn't experience my father's death the way Zoey and you have.

I moved 500 miles away from home in my 20s and only went home twice a year after that (Christmas and summer). My dad was emotionally distant so my relationship with him was nothing like Zoey's and Mitch's, but holidays and birthdays have still been rough for me. At times, I question why, specifically because I didn't have a super close Zoey/Mitch relationship with my dad, but loss is loss.

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Why can't Zoey just be on her own for a bit? It's not the end of the world to be single. Ugh. Do better with that, Show.

I agree, especially since she's been through so much in the last year. I don't need her to pull a full on "I choose me" Kelly/Dylan/Brandon moment, but I was cringing at Zoey and Max hooking up earlier in the sesason because she wanted to feel something besides grief (it was a peppier version of Buffy/Spike but still unhealthy). I was glad when she decided she needed to press pause because it was clear to me that their hookups were an escape for her, rather than really truly wanting to be with Max, which was unfair to him since he made it clear that he wanted a relationship with her.

I don't know if Zoey and Max can ever truly be happy together because Max stated the obvious in this episode - he feels like she has an unfair advantage because of her heart song power: "I'm still trying to figure it out, but, as usual, you've already downloaded my innermost thoughts right into your brain so why are you even asking me? You're just, what, ambushing me with my own emotions right now?" While I completely understand his point of view and why it feels so invasive for him that Zoey has access to his emotions, in her defense, she has no control over this. As she pointed out: "What am I supposed to do? Never talk to you again just in case you sing a heart song?" I really think that this conflict and balance of power is something that isn't going to be resolved between them, which means it will always be an issue for them, which is why I think they ultimately won't work as a couple.

But at least Max knows. Simon is at even more of a disadvantage because he has no idea Zoey has access to his emotions. Don't get me wrong - I know Zoey can't go telling every person she interacts with that she has this power (mostly because they will think she's nuts), but it's like Perry telling Mo he's divorced with two kids - if you're going to be in a relationship with someone, you're going to have to disclose this information at some point. How can you be in a relationship with someone if you're hiding this huge secret? The longer you wait to do it, the more hurt/betrayed the person is going to feel that you kept this a secret from them.

[FnkyChkn34]

1 hour ago, Sarah 103 said:

I liked "Kiss Me" too. I thought Zoey was going to see that Simon was not singing and wonder what was going on with his relationship. 

Since I am Team Max, I was actually hoping that at the end he'd sing "Kiss Me" to Zoey.  Even though they just had that conversation in her room, I was hoping for that little twist.  Oh well...  instead we get Zoey and Simon.  Ugh.  

[dubbel zout]

20 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I really think that this conflict and balance of power is something that isn't going to be resolved between them, which means it will always be an issue for them, which is why I think they ultimately won't work as a couple.

It will be an issue with anyone she's involved with, which is a pretty big flaw for the show. 

Zoey obviously doesn't need to tell everyone she knows about the heart songs, but those closest to her deserve to know.

[chaifan]

7 hours ago, taragel said:

Just saw this article w/a quote from Austin Winsberg re: the love triangle and whether or not it should be over. Kind of a weaseling-out answer if you ask me:

“I know there are some fans out there that feel like, ‘Wait a second, what happened, Austin? You said she was gonna make a choice in the beginning.’ And I think she did make the choice,” showrunner Austin Winsberg explains. “She tried to go for Max, and it’s just that the timing wasn’t right, and she wasn’t in the right space. And here we are, several episodes later, and people change over time, feelings change over time, and things get more complicated. I think she’s still not ready to fully commit to Max, and here Simon is in the wings, he’s still around, and Simon and Zoey do have that great bond and that undeniable chemistry.”

There's a lot more about how she's "not ready" to commit to Max because he's her bestie and that's more loaded, but... meh?  Because it's seemed from the start that she was just way more into Simon and couldn't really accept Max being out of the friend zone. So I can't see how that will be a satisfying endgame at this point.

 

And this (the line I bolded) is what bothers me about the whole Zoey Max Simon thing... to me it's the same as how I feel about The Bachelor or Bachelorette.  I can't get into two people supposedly head over heels in love with each other when one of them, just days prior, was telling a third person how much they could see spending their life with them.   And the other person knows it!  I can understand one person having a hard time choosing between two people, but I could never understand the person who was waiting to be chosen, knowing there's a really close #2 right behind them. 

Zoey's the Bachelorette in this situation, and this week Simon is the winning suitor.  How does Simon accept Zoey's feelings for him knowing that a week or so ago she was supposedly committed to Max? 

Yeah, people "change over time".  But "time" usually means many many months or years, not a week or two.  All this back and forth is my least favorite part of the show.

 

 

[KaveDweller]

I am not a fan of love triangles in general. I think it is pretty clear Zoey is more into Simon than Max, since she was not ready to un-pause with Max, but is ready to be with Simon. Who still works for her, but I guess we are not dealing with that yet. 

I thought Zoey was a bit harsh when rejecting Aidian (is that the band kid's name)? Yeah, his song was a little creepy but he seemed legitimately into her based on the conversation with David.

[roctavia]

46 minutes ago, chaifan said:

 

Zoey's the Bachelorette in this situation, and this week Simon is the winning suitor.  How does Simon accept Zoey's feelings for him knowing that a week or so ago she was supposedly committed to Max? 

I wish we had a better idea of how much time had passed... they told us at the beginning of the season, but since the last episode to this episode, how much time went by? Or since the "pause" has it been a month? A week? A few months? I mean, they've got the restaurant up and running which takes time.... If we knew months had gone by, that might help a little... did they say the baby was 6 months old? I guess that's 6 months from the dad's death... and the season started 3 months later, right?

[Trini]

2 hours ago, chaifan said:

How does Simon accept Zoey's feelings for him knowing that a week or so ago she was supposedly committed to Max? 

Was she, though? That's the thing; even before this latest twist, I thought the show was neglecting the Zoey/Max relationship after they broke up. They could have been doing stuff with them even if they weren't a couple. How committed are the writer's to this relationship? Because they were still giving Zoey and Simon little moments.

And then rewatching the Zoey and Max scenes, they didn't actually clarify what their status was; they just gave each other permission to date other people. It was unsatisfying. Because it seems like they still want to be together BUT their actions are the opposite.

The showrunner sounds like he didn't want to waste the Zoey/Simon chemistry -- that's fair -- but they could have done this differently. It's really a 'having your cake and eating it too' situation.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Trini
curses! typos quoted again!

[hnygrl]

Like I said before; I’ve always been team Simon...so I’m kinda loving them together - right now...

Truth is, Zoey’s so messed up emotionally she needs to be single for a couple of years...well...actually, she desperately needs grief counseling before she’s ready to be anyone’s girlfriend/significant other. 

Hot fire inspector has the sexist baritone singing voice. I like him and Mo together. He makes him/her better. 

Golly gee willikers there were a lot of hide behind the cushions awkward moments in this episode! How the heck are Max & Zoey gonna have any kind of anything when they can’t even communicate effectively? My goodness that was painful to watch. 

And Zoey’s brother’s face when he discovered that song was about his SISTER? Eek.

Overall a good episode, if not horrifically awkward and uncomfortable to watch half the time. I like Tobin and ‘female coder’ they’re cute together. Missed Leif though. 

Know what else I miss from last season? Nerdy Coders coding. That crap gave me LIFE.

Edited April 6, 2021 by hnygrl

[shapeshifter]

40 minutes ago, Trini said:

The showrunner sounds like he didn't want to waste the Zoey/Simon chemistry -- that's fair -- but they could have done this differently. It's really a 'having your cake and eating too' situation.

Yes, also known as:

2 hours ago, chaifan said:

what bothers me about the whole Zoey Max Simon thing... to me it's the same as how I feel about The Bachelor or Bachelorette. 

with Max and Simon having their own The Bachelor spin offs orbiting around The Bachelorette Star Zoey.  
And I never watch those shows, so…😕

[formerlyfreedom]

I like Max fine, but Simon seems to be the sort of 'unattainable guy' of romance novels. So I'm not shocked the show is going with this story. For now. Also, Simon is extremely pleasant to look at, and I really enjoy his singing. So I'm glad he's around with something to do.

Now, neighbor boy, I'm glad that Zoey let him down, even if it was with a thud. And I am glad that David's foray into garage bands was apparently just a detour to get us to the point where we could see Andrew Leeds make those incredible faces. Bring on your Dad Band, David!

[Guest]

21 hours ago, funnygirl said:

It seems like the showrunner is trying to justify walking back what was said to be Zoey's definitive choice at the beginning of the season by insinuating that Zoey can't really make her decision until she's been with both guys, which is ridiculous. Yes, Max has a new crush in town that's being entertained, but he's basically been waiting for Zoey to be ready to "un-pause". Instead, while Zoey's not ready (aka doesn't really want to?) to be with Max, she has no problem wanting to dive into her feelings for Simon - which is her prerogative, except she's coming off as a huge flake. She said it herself when they were talking in her bedroom: she doesn't want being with Simon to mean she loses Max as a friend. Max is a good dude, so he's not going to bolt on the friendship because of this, but that doesn't mean Zoey's not manipulating the situation so that she gets to have her cheesequake and eat it to. 

Never mind rooting for Zoey/Max or Zoey/Simon, as of now I'm not rooting for Zoey at all… which I'm pretty sure isn't supposed to be the intended feeling toward the shows lead. 

I completely agree. I could easily root for either couple but not yet. Both relationships have big problems and Zoey isn’t ready yet. In many ways Zoey has all the power in these relationships and I hate how she’s using it even if she’s not doing it on purpose. Her best moments are her growth has a person not with her love interests. 

20 hours ago, ciubecca98 said:

since I have yet to see her ... so in the end Zoey wasn't ready for Max but is she ready for Simon?

PS: I hope right no would ridalize the thing and show a poor selfish Zoey to Max

Well, she’s ready to have sex with Simon but that doesn’t really mean she’s ready. She was ready to have sex with him last season before she realized he wasn’t in a good place emotionally. She was ready to have sex with Max not long ago but wasn’t ready to be in a relationship. I haven’t seen anything to suggest she is ready to be an actual relationship with Simon. 

12 hours ago, taragel said:

Just saw this article w/a quote from Austin Winsberg re: the love triangle and whether or not it should be over. Kind of a weaseling-out answer if you ask me:

“I know there are some fans out there that feel like, ‘Wait a second, what happened, Austin? You said she was gonna make a choice in the beginning.’ And I think she did make the choice,” showrunner Austin Winsberg explains. “She tried to go for Max, and it’s just that the timing wasn’t right, and she wasn’t in the right space. And here we are, several episodes later, and people change over time, feelings change over time, and things get more complicated. I think she’s still not ready to fully commit to Max, and here Simon is in the wings, he’s still around, and Simon and Zoey do have that great bond and that undeniable chemistry.”

There's a lot more about how she's "not ready" to commit to Max because he's her bestie and that's more loaded, but... meh?  Because it's seemed from the start that she was just way more into Simon and couldn't really accept Max being out of the friend zone. So I can't see how that will be a satisfying endgame at this point.

 

If he thinks a few episodes is “over time” I don’t have a lot of hope. I feel like her relationship with Max is more loaded because the show keeps their problems in the forefront while they mostly ignore her problems with Simon. It not being acknowledged doesn’t change the race issue, the boss issue or the emotional power imbalance from Zoey’s abilities. Zoey needs someone she can talk to about her abilities and that is neither guy at the moment. 

[bros402]

First thought: Fire Marshal's voice was good

Second thought: Zoey bar was amazing

Third thought: I cannot decide which expression was better, Zoey's reaction to Tobin/Mackenzie during Kiss Me, or David's expression when he realizes the song is about Zoey. Both were amazing. Missed Leif in this episode, though.

 

On 4/5/2021 at 12:33 AM, Trini said:

I think I loved just about every musical number in this one, even Aiden's - which was hilariously cringe-y! "Kiss Me" was great; I liked how I thought it was a solo, but it turned into a duet then a group number. (Apparently, her birthday party made everyone... horny?) How much does it cost to use the "Happy Birthday" song again? I LOL'd when Zoey shut down that song!

It no longer costs anything - a few years back a federal court ruled that the copyright was invalid, and Warner Music had to pay a settlement of like 15 million to people who licensed it from them.

[ciubecca98]

about his power I understand Max is not happy with his powers ... given what he had to witness and go through ... Zoey getting him out co.  another, she sang her love for her and a moment later she did a very erotic dance to Simon !!  (in the first season) not even Simon would have been happy ... I think it's too easy for Zoey to bond with Simon knowing exactly everything but without being honest with him !!!!

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, bros402 said:

First thought: Fire Marshal's voice was good

Yes, somehow the stern, full-bearded Fire Marshall busting into song and dance was startling to me --even on this show. 
I know these big bushy beards are a thing now (I'm blaming Covid) but I have always preferred trimmed beards --and I'm an old hippy. 
Anyway, when Hot Fire Marshall revealed that he was divorced from a husband and had 2 kids, he suddenly seemed good enough to me for Mo, since Fire Marshall had been in a long enough relationship with a non-binary person to have kids, and he was able to care about relationships (kids) outside of his job --which he takes very seriously.
Plus I loved him giving Mo the icon in the previous episode. 

[tennisgurl]

I just really hope this means Zoey will just stay with Simon for awhile, I know that the romance is a big part of the show but there is no romantic plot more tedious than love triangles. Especially when the person in the middle just keeps waffling back and fourth between the two options, they just start to look less like someone trying to understand their feelings and more like a wishy washy ass who is jerking around people they supposedly care about. Zoey has seemingly chosen Simon, so she had better stay with him for awhile after this, especially as Max seems to have made some peace with Zoey not choosing him. If they have her switch again, despite it being pretty clear that Simon is the one she really wants, I am going to lose patience. 

[shapeshifter]

12 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

15 hours ago, chaifan said:

it's the same as how I feel about The Bachelor or Bachelorette. 

with Max and Simon having their own The Bachelor spin offs orbiting around The Bachelorette Star Zoey.  
And I never watch those shows, so…😕

Oy. And to add more to The Bachelor-esque mix, I just stumbled across a tidbit about how the actor who plays the young Ossie musician who Zoey protested was too young for her now-30-year-old self, is, IRL 22 and dating a 36-year-old woman (https://www.girlfriend.com.au/felix-mallard-girlfriend) so maybe...? 😕😕😕

[ciubecca98]

17 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I just really hope this means Zoey will just stay with Simon for awhile, I know that the romance is a big part of the show but there is no romantic plot more tedious than love triangles. Especially when the person in the middle just keeps waffling back and fourth between the two options, they just start to look less like someone trying to understand their feelings and more like a wishy washy ass who is jerking around people they supposedly care about. Zoey has seemingly chosen Simon, so she had better stay with him for awhile after this, especially as Max seems to have made some peace with Zoey not choosing him. If they have her switch again, despite it being pretty clear that Simon is the one she really wants, I am going to lose patience. 

too bad that everything was born and raised thanks to Zoey and her power without which for me Simon would still be with his girlfriend, Zoey did everything to have Simon because she physically wants him (she even sang it) and she just doesn't  is liking she is not sincere and has used the power to get close to him without which she would not have succeeded

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, Dani said:

Zoey needs someone she can talk to about her abilities and that is neither guy at the moment. 

Isn't that what Mo is for?

49 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I just really hope this means Zoey will just stay with Simon for awhile

Same, and if they do split, it's Simon who does it.

34 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

the young Ossie musician who Zoey protested was too young for her now-30-year-old self,

Zoey being 30 isn't the issue for me, it's that she and Aiden are in totally different places in their lives. He's floating around being in a band and she's grieving her dead father and trying to keep it together at work.

Though he needs to tap into all that emotion he has for Zoey and keep writing songs, which will hopefully improve, hee.

[Trini]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I just really hope this means Zoey will just stay with Simon for awhile, I know that the romance is a big part of the show but there is no romantic plot more tedious than love triangles. Especially when the person in the middle just keeps waffling back and fourth between the two options, they just start to look less like someone trying to understand their feelings and more like a wishy washy ass who is jerking around people they supposedly care about. Zoey has seemingly chosen Simon, so she had better stay with him for awhile after this, especially as Max seems to have made some peace with Zoey not choosing him. If they have her switch again, despite it being pretty clear that Simon is the one she really wants, I am going to lose patience. 

I'm going to enjoy Zimon for now, but they're going to circle back to Max eventually. Probably the end of the season or just before.

Anyone know how many episodes are in season 2? I'm assuming 12 like last season.

[ciubecca98]

19 minutes ago, Trini said:

I'm going to enjoy Zimon for now, but they're going to circle back to Max eventually. Probably the end of the season or just before.

Anyone know how many episodes are in season 2? I'm assuming 12 like last season.

on Wikipedia we wrote 12 as the first

[Guest]

5 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Isn't that what Mo is for?

I doubt any romantic relationship will work for Zoey until she can openly talk about what she’s sees and hears. Besides, Mo is busy with his own stuff and doesn’t have time or the inclination to be Zoey’s therapist this season. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

53 minutes ago, Dani said:

Mo is busy with his own stuff and doesn’t have time or the inclination to be Zoey’s therapist this season. 

And it's not Mo's responsiblity to be Zoey's therapist. There's being a friend who listens so that you have a sounding board to bounce your ideas off of and then there's Zoey's seemingly daily need to unload on Mo, which is due to two factors: (1) proximity and (2) the fact that Mo is one of the few people who knows about Zoey's powers (and therefore can be completely honest with). But that is A LOT for Mo to take on just in general (and that's even before you consider the fact that Mo is in the midst of opening a new restaurant and starting a new relationship).

[memememe76]

My biggest issue with the love triangle mess is that there have been at least FOUR female characters who have been used primarily as obstacles. FOUR times! One was a fiancee, another was a girlfriend, another a close friend (who wanted more), and another a very likely girlfriend. That part is getting tired.

Edited April 6, 2021 by memememe76