Predator and Prey: Assault, harassment, and other aggressions in the entertainment industry

[janie jones]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

 Entertainment is the only industry I can think of off the top of my head where children can make the same sort of money and work along side adults and have other areas of parity with adults.

Retail/food service. But all of your points still stand. Labor laws prevent Stranger Things-aged kids from working, and no one becomes a household name for being a really good cashier.

38 minutes ago, xaxat said:

Armie Hammer is a seriously scary psychopath.

‘I Am 100% a Cannibal’: New Armie Hammer Documentary’s Shocking Revelations

This dude is repugnant.

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Yeah but if you're advocating against child stars, then you'd have to say the same for Little League, AAU teams, gymnastics, figure skating, ballet ... All require precocious, talented kids.

There is no world where I would I agree that heading a Hollywood production as a child is the same as playing on a little league team.   The precociousness and the talent of a child is in no way relevant to any point I've ever made on the subject, that's a complete side discussion.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

But true lies doesn't focus on her character.  She's a side character  Why does it matter if the main character is a child?  If they are on the set and in the show its the same risk. 

Stranger things has a whole cast of kids.  You're saying that shouldn't happen?  

ET made in the early 80s with focus on ET and the kids.  

Stand by me.  The sandlot.  The bad news bears.  Whole bunch of movies in the 80s. 

Half the time I look up actors who started acting as children, they died very early, usually between their 20s and 40s.  I am not interested in keeping that going, no.  Have you done any research on Drew Barrymore's life at all? She made suicide attempts throughout her teen years.  Drug addict as a child.  It's a miracle that she's alive.  I wouldn't wish that on any child today, no.  It's not worth any movie to me.

Quote

In the wake of her sudden stardom, Barrymore endured a notoriously troubled childhood. She was a regular at Studio 54 as a young girl, and her nightlife and constant partying became a popular subject with the media. She was placed in rehab at the age of 13,[1][16] and spent eighteen months in an institution for the mentally ill.[23] A suicide attempt at 14 put her back in rehab, followed by a three-month stay with singer David Crosby and his wife. The stay was precipitated, Crosby said, because she "needed to be around some people that were committed to sobriety."

Edited August 10, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[DearEvette]

45 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

It’s not just Olympics though. There’s abuse at the level 7/8 level, at the amateur club level, not just elites. There’s actually abuse in every sport. 
I always think you can’t ban your way out of problems. 

Oh most definitely.  Wherever there is a power imbalance you are going to find abuse... which means abuse is everywhere. 

What makes it so problematic is in cases where the abuse is known and enabled because the abuser is a success and brings accolades and makes money for their establishment.  In this case it becomes a warped thing where the person doing the abusing is being protected at all costs, not the people they are hurting who are the ones in actual need of protecting. and it is even worse when it is children.

It is hard to make the argument that children should not be able to do something they enjoy be it sports or the arts when the lens really should be on a system that enables the adult predators who are given license to indulge their every whim and encourages opportunists (and in this I include negligent, greedy  or ambitious parents) who just want to cash in.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Again, it's great for children to be in sports or arts.  I have never once argued against that.  Paying children to work is what I am not fond of.  I can't even believe the opinion is controversial.

Americans love to decry children working in factories overseas.  But nobody questions children working in Hollywood.  It's very strange to me.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[RealHousewife]

1 hour ago, xaxat said:

Armie Hammer is a seriously scary psychopath.

‘I Am 100% a Cannibal’: New Armie Hammer Documentary’s Shocking Revelations

I used to think he was so handsome. Hollywood is full of crazies. 

[ShadowHunter]

1 hour ago, xaxat said:

Armie Hammer is a seriously scary psychopath.

‘I Am 100% a Cannibal’: New Armie Hammer Documentary’s Shocking Revelations

Jesus.

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

It is hard to make the argument that children should not be able to do something they enjoy be it sports or the arts when the lens really should be on a system that enables the adult predators who are given license to indulge their every whim and encourages opportunists (and in this I include negligent, greedy  or ambitious parents) who just want to cash in.

exactly! Kids shouldn't be punished for the bad behaviour of the adults. They should be able to act if that is their dream. We just have to find a way to make it safer. 

I do get the argument that they shouldn't be stars, but some kids can handle it just fine. Yes, there are a lot of stories of kids whose lives have been torn apart by fame at a young age, but there are plenty of others, who turned out just fine. It's just that no one talks about them. For every Fred Savage there's a Ron Howard. 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Mabinogia
got the wrong Savage

[Ms Blue Jay]

Of course people  talk about them.  A lot of them are still working today, Ron included.  All sorts of people survive ordeals, diseases, traumas, disasters, etc., that doesn't change how bad they are.  I think there's absolutely no doubt that an alarming amount of child actors end up dead or close to it at a young age.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Luckylyn]

I think something needs to be done about parents exploiting their kids for profit online.  Not enough is done to protect child stars on tv and movies but at least there are some protections.   Kids of family vloggers have zero protection.  There’s a TikTok Mom posting suggestive videos of her daughter.   

[Cinnabon]

13 minutes ago, Luckylyn said:

I think something needs to be done about parents exploiting their kids for profit online.  Not enough is done to protect child stars on tv and movies but at least there are some protections.   Kids of family vloggers have zero protection.  There’s a TikTok Mom posting suggestive videos of her daughter.   

I agree. Hateful “celebrities” like members of the Duggar and Bates families whose shows have been canceled do the same thing. Those kids don’t have a choice and are being exploited because their parents don’t want to work. 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Cinnabon

[isalicat]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Paying children to work is what I am not fond of.  I can't even believe the opinion is controversial.

Maybe the entertainment industry is more the problem than "paying children to work". I had my first job outside the home at age 12 and it was entirely my idea - I worked on the weekends in a little factory that made weird stuff for the Green Stamps catalog (remember Green Stamps?). I loved it! And my parents, who did not believe in allowances thus motivating me to look for a "real job", certainly encouraged me to keep every penny I earned. I continued to work nonstop until just two years ago when I retired from a successful career at age 64 and then last year I got recruited, and now am back working part time again...because I want to and my new job is my "dream job". Anyways I was never exploited or assaulted or molested or anything so again, maybe its the peculiar psychology inherent in the performing arts (and I think gymnastics and ice skating fits into this as well) that is part of the issue.

[aradia22]

Quote

Of course people  talk about them.  A lot of them are still working today, Ron included.  All sorts of people survive ordeals, diseases, traumas, disasters, etc., that doesn't change how bad they are.  I think there's absolutely no doubt that an alarming amount of child actors end up dead or close to it at a young age.

I think Kid90 is a flawed documentary. It was a lot of footage in search of a story. But one thing that was highlighted by the end was how many people in Soleil Moon Frye's life were struggling. Both in an out of the entertainment industry. There were suicidal people among the child actors she grew up with and also the skaters she met when she went to college. I'm loathe to simplify when the truth is there are a lot of people who aren't getting the help that could save them. We live in a society...

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, isalicat said:

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Paying children to work is what I am not fond of.  I can't even believe the opinion is controversial.

Maybe the entertainment industry is more the problem than "paying children to work".

I don't think paying them to work is the problem. It's making kids support their family that is the problem, making a child feel responsible for the welfare of others is the problem. Having your parents act as managers rather than parents is the problem. 

There have been child stars who lived relatively normal lives, went to public school, had friends and activities outside of acting. Some continue acting, some move on to other things. I think what sets them apart from the ones like poor Jennette McCurdy or Lindsey Lohan or Britney Spears is that their parents saw acting as an after-school job, like many kids have, and not a way to buy a McMansion and a Mercedes or quit their job and attend fancy awards ceremonies and premiers. 

Unfortunately, I do think that the "Hollywood lifestyle" is very seductive and only the strong can resist the urge once their kid has a hit show/movie, to not exploit them. 

While I don't think kids shouldn't act, I can say that I'm pretty sure if I had a child who wanted to go into acting I would do everything I could to dissuade them because that world eats people alive and you have to be extremely tough to survive it.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

exactly! Kids shouldn't be punished for the bad behaviour of the adults. They should be able to act if that is their dream. We just have to find a way to make it safer. 

I do get the argument that they shouldn't be stars, but some kids can handle it just fine. Yes, there are a lot of stories of kids whose lives have been torn apart by fame at a young age, but there are plenty of others, who turned out just fine. It's just that no one talks about them. For every Fred Savage there's a Ron Howard. 

This is exactly where I fall on the argument. At one point I would have argued against child actors but since I have followed several current and former ones who had a real passion for it and thrived. There are many where their career is driven by the child and the parents are protecting their kids. 

[Lady Whistleup]

It really depends on the people in charge. For instance, The Donna Reed Show child actors have spoken about how vigilant Donna Reed was towards her tv kids. 

Many times, the chief exploiter of the child star is the parent. See: Joe Jackson, Judy Garland's mother Ethel Gumm, Jamie Spears. 

It's a complicated issue but I don't think outright banning child performers is the answer.

[Vermicious Knid]

Toronto Intl Film Festival omits mentioning Ezra Miller as a costar in a marquee film premiere.

Quote

Ben Kinglsey stars in the film [Dalíland] as the surrealist painter Salvador Dalí, with the supporting cast made up of Barbara Sukowa, Christopher Briney, Rupert Graves, and Suki Waterhouse. Miller plays the younger version of the visionary painter, although that was not made apparent in TIFF’s official announcement, which excluded Miller from the cast and crew list. Sales agent Bankside Films and TIFF both declined to comment on the omission to The Hollywood Reporter.

[anna0852]

1 hour ago, Lady Whistleup said:

It really depends on the people in charge. For instance, The Donna Reed Show child actors have spoken about how vigilant Donna Reed was towards her tv kids. 

Alison Arngrim said the same thing about the Little House set. Michael Landon stood for no shenanigans. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, Lady Whistleup said:

It really depends on the people in charge. For instance, The Donna Reed Show child actors have spoken about how vigilant Donna Reed was towards her tv kids. 

Many times, the chief exploiter of the child star is the parent. See: Joe Jackson, Judy Garland's mother Ethel Gumm, Jamie Spears. 

It's a complicated issue but I don't think outright banning child performers is the answer.

And how are you going to control those parents?  My point is you can't so if you leave those opportunities open for vulnerable children to be slotted into, then those children are in danger. 

But hey, if I can get people to think outside the box and to at least question the longstanding traditions dating back 100 years in Hollywood, then I guess it's better than nothing. 

Something else that's interesting is seeing successful adult actors like Kieran Culkin on "Succession" or Elizabeth Olsen in the Marvel movies.  One of my friends put it this way - their older siblings were exploited while they got to have a (more) real childhood.  It's great (and extremely rare) that the Olsen twins are incredibly wealthy and I guess they had really good management but definitely at least MK went through a lot of shit when she was young.  Actually, they both did, because the public calendars counting down until they hit 18 was disgusting.

And I'm sure people know what a nasty piece of work Kit Culkin seems like.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[PepSinger]

3 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Something else that's interesting is seeing successful actors like Kieran Culkin on "Succession" or Elizabeth Olsen in the Marvel movies.  One of my friends put it this way - their older siblings were exploited while they got to have a (more) real childhood.  

I don’t see how the elder Olsen twins were exploited. Their parents kept working while the twins earned money, and their parents made sure to put that money away. That’s why they haven’t had to work in what? Ten or more years? 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Well I don't know what their parents did to them, but growing up in the public eye I think was very detrimental to them in some ways.  I won't get into their personal issues but they didn't have it easy.  I'm glad they have money now but you can never get your babyhood and childhood back.  Them declining the Full House reboots and reunions pretty much spells out they're not interested in returning to that part of their lives.   

They were newborns.  They absolutely did not choose the acting life.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[PepSinger]

16 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Actually, they both did, because the public calendars counting down until they hit 18 was disgusting.

Now, I’ll admit that was fucking creepy.

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

And how are you going to control those parents?  My point is you can't so if you leave those opportunities open for vulnerable children to be slotted into, then those children are in danger. 

Realistically those children are going to be in danger with or without jobs for child actors. Their parents will push them into something else like pageants, social media or music. Avenues where they are still exploited with even fewer protections in place. I just don’t think that a ban will actually help. 

Improving laws, pressuring studios to provide a safe space, training the adults involved to recognize signs of abuse, assigning advocates to all child actors and giving the kids a safe space to ask for help would go a long way toward protecting child actors. 

[Lady Whistleup]

26 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

And how are you going to control those parents?  My point is you can't so if you leave those opportunities open for vulnerable children to be slotted into, then those children are in danger. 

Exploitative, greedy parents are going to do what they're going to do. If it's not showbiz, they;ll be pushing their families into becoming "social media sensations," they'll be vlogging their kids' every move, they'll look the other way when their kids fall into abusive situations. Do I think there are exploitative parents in showbiz? Absolutely. But I also think that these parents would just find another way to farm out their kids if the showbiz route was shut down. 

Everyone is looking at Fred Savage, and no one is looking at Danica McKellar (Winnie), who seems to have grown up into a well-adjusted adult who has a second career as an author. And sometimes child stars do go on very rough journeys, but I have a hunch that their challenges (substance abuse, unemployment, relationship difficulties) aren't that different from the average Joe.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Danica McKellar still acts, on random sitcoms and Hallmark movies.

[Blergh]

5 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Exploitative, greedy parents are going to do what they're going to do. If it's not showbiz, they;ll be pushing their families into becoming "social media sensations," they'll be vlogging their kids' every move, they'll look the other way when their kids fall into abusive situations. Do I think there are exploitative parents in showbiz? Absolutely. But I also think that these parents would just find another way to farm out their kids if the showbiz route was shut down. 

Everyone is looking at Fred Savage, and no one is looking at Danica McKellar (Winnie), who seems to have grown up into a well-adjusted adult who has a second career as an author. And sometimes child stars do go on very rough journeys, but I have a hunch that their challenges (substance abuse, unemployment, relationship difficulties) aren't that different from the average Joe.

True, but it seems for every Rance and Jean Howard who diligently looked out for their sons' Ron and Clint's interests, there are at least ten sets of parents who consider their offspring to be nothing more than their means to fame and fortune. And the number of production execs sincerely  looking out for minor performers' welfare could fit on the head of a pin!

[merylinkid]

Kids working for money is nothing new.   They used to shovel snow and mow lawns.   Babysitting is REALLY exploitative.   Here 14 year old, you are in charge of this 2 year old while we go out -- we'll be home around 2 am.    The babysitters parents aren't even around.

Look, getting rid of kid actors is NOT the solution.   It's making sure the rules are followed so the kids CANNOT be exploited.   Its holding the SHOWS and the PRODUCERS accountable that will make changes.    Because as long as the studios make a buck, and they don't LOSE a buck in any accountability action, no one will do anything.   

Good grief, look at what is going on with Ezra Miller.  They are an adult.   But they went on an expoiting crime spree and the studio is STILL standing behind them.   So its not that having kid actors are the problem.   It's that STUDIOS don't give a damn,

[Notabug]

16 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

For every Fred Savage there's a Ron Howard. 

And a Jodie Foster, Brooke Shields, Jason Bateman and a whole lot of others.

[Guest]

Speaking of child stars, just by looking at the current ones it does appear that things are improving. Clearly more could come out as they get older but the tragedies seem to becoming less common with more of them having a good foundation. Some things with Millie Bobby Brown are concerning but no where to the extent of previous generations and she clearly has adults around her with her best interest at heart. 

[Irlandesa]

9 hours ago, PepSinger said:

I don’t see how the elder Olsen twins were exploited. Their parents kept working while the twins earned money, and their parents made sure to put that money away. That’s why they haven’t had to work in what? Ten or more years? 

It was partly the TV money but I think it was mostly that their fashion lines.

And I really don't think we should blame what happened with Fred Savage on his child acting.  For all intents and purposes, he did navigate life well.  He went to college.  He got a degree.  He didn't get lost in addiction.  He successfully transitioned to directing and even restarted acting (he was so damn good on The Grinder.) 

The behavior described in that article is typical "nice guy/supportive boss" creepiness that happens all over and by people who don't start working young.  Something causes it but I don't think it's Hollywood. That was just his medium.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Irlandesa

[PepSinger]

18 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

It was partly the TV money but I think it was mostly that their fashion lines.

And I really don't think we should blame what happened with Fred Savage on his child acting.  For all intents and purposes, he did navigate life well.  He went to college.  He got a degree.  He didn't get lost in addiction.  He successfully transitioned to directing and even restarted acting (he was so damn good on The Grinder.) 

The behavior described in that article is typical "nice guy/supportive boss" creepiness that happens all over and by people who don't start working young.  Something causes it but I don't think it's Hollywood. That was just his medium.

I totally agree. Fred being a child actor has nothing to do with his predatory behavior. (And he really was pretty damn good on The Grinder. Sigh) He would’ve done the same thing had he been working in a firm on Wall Street.

[bluegirl147]

16 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Fred being a child actor has nothing to do with his predatory behavior. (

Yes but it did give him more opportunities.   In another industry his victim might have come forward sooner. Does Hollywood even have HR departments?

[Ohiopirate02]

17 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Yes but it did give him more opportunities.   In another industry his victim might have come forward sooner. Does Hollywood even have HR departments?

The problem in Hollywood is that it is filled with subcontractors.  There is no centralized HR that you can go to to file a complaint.  I guess you can take it up with your union to help you sort out who's responsible for hiring the perpetrator and then attempt to file a complaint.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, Notabug said:

And a Jodie Foster, Brooke Shields, Jason Bateman and a whole lot of others.

Are you using these people as examples that child acting is a good thing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempted_assassination_of_Ronald_Reagan

I know this happened when Jodie was 18, but it wouldn't have happened if she wasn't in the public eye her whole childhood.

Quote

During her freshman year at Yale in 1980–81, Foster was stalked by John Hinckley Jr., who had developed an obsession with her after watching Taxi Driver multiple times.[25](p 74)[177] He moved to New Haven and tried to contact her by letter and telephone.[177][178] On March 30, 1981, Hinckley attempted to assassinate United States president Ronald Reagan, wounding him and three other people, claiming that his motive was to impress Foster.[177] The incident drew intense media attention, and Foster was accompanied by bodyguards while on campus.[10][25](p 74) Although Judge Barrington D. Parker confirmed that Foster was innocent in the case and had been "unwittingly ensnared in a third party's alleged attempt to assassinate an American President", her videotaped testimony was played at Hinckley's trial.[15][178] While at Yale, Foster also had other stalkers, including a man who planned to kill her but changed his mind after seeing her perform in a college play.[10][25](p 74)

Didn't Jodie Foster play a prostitute at age 9?  I love how the arguments for child acting are examples like this and Drew Barrymore.  They are pretty much the poster children for my argument.

We never saw Jason Bateman for years (Decades?) because he was on drugs the whole time:

Quote

Throughout the 1990s Bateman struggled with an addiction to alcohol and drugs; he stated in a 2009 interview: "I'd worked so hard that by the time I was 20, I wanted to play hard. And I did that really well ... it was like Risky Business for ten years."[39]

Now let's do Brooke Shields

From 1981 to 1983, Shields, her mother, photographer Garry Gross, and Playboy Press were involved in litigation in the New York City Courts over the rights to photographs her mother had signed away to Gross (when dealing with models who are minors, a parent or legal guardian must sign such a release form while other agreements are subject to negotiation). Gross was the photographer of a controversial set of nude images taken in 1975 of a then ten-year-old Brooke Shields with the consent of her mother, Teri Shields, for the Playboy Press publication Sugar 'n' Spice. The images portray Shields nude, standing and sitting in a bathtub, wearing makeup and covered in oil. The courts ruled in favor of the photographer due to a strange twist in New York law. It would have been otherwise had Brooke Shields been considered a child "performer" rather than a model.[30]

Again, just because people survive horrible ordeals does not speak well of those horrible ordeals!  These are not points in children acting's favour!

Edited August 11, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Didn't Jodie Foster play a prostitute at age 9? 

If you're talking about Taxi Driver, she was 13 or 14.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Ok, sorry:

how old was jodie foster in taxi driver

12 years old

Taxi Driver (1976)

At just 12 years old, Jodie Foster delivered one of the defining performances of her career as a child prostitute in Martin Scorsese's grueling portrait of social dysfunction on the streets of 1970s New York.

[Notabug]

8 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Are you using these people as examples that child acting is a good thing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempted_assassination_of_Ronald_Reagan

Talk about pressure on a child?  

Didn't Jodie Foster play a prostitute at age 9?  I love how the arguments for child acting are examples like this and Drew Barrymore.  They are pretty much the poster children for my argument.

I think Jodie Foster is a child actress who seems to have her head on straight and has led a productive, fruitful life and seems to be in a good place emotionally.  She has not had a string of abusive relationships, a history of substance abuse or other evidence that she herself suffered harmful consequences due to her acting career as a child.

Jodie Foster did not know John Hinckley, she had no relationship with him, she was 19 when he shot Reagan.  There are mentally ill people who become fixated on others, including celebrities.  I am sure the experience was terrible for Foster, but there is no evidence that it caused lasting emotional harm to her.  Hinckley could've just as easily have become fixated on a teen neighbor or clerk at the local A&P.  

As far as playing a prostitute at age 12, that might not be something that all kids could handle or that most parents would approve; but I have not seen or heard of any evidence that Foster suffered significant harm from having played the role.  I think most kids would know what a prostitute is by that age, I certainly did.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Notabug

[Ms Blue Jay]

Okay yeah if that's the kind of life you think is appropriate for a child and it's all good as long as that person barely survives then that's fine, we will never see eye to eye.

Being stalked is not fun and games.   It is a life I would wish on no one.  

The Rebecca Shaeffer incident is very relevant here.  This is what COULD have happened to Jodie, but she had bodyguards and through luck and protection she was able to survive.  Relevant not for Rebecca's age which is not what I said, but because it is a stalking case of somebody famous where the victim ended up dead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_Schaeffer

On July 18, 1989, 19-year-old fan Robert John Bardo shot and killed Schaeffer at her home in West Hollywood. At the time of her death, Bardo had been stalking her for three years.[9][13] He had previously been obsessed with child peace activist Samantha Smith, who died in a plane crash in 1985.[14] He then wrote numerous letters to Schaeffer, one of which she answered.[9] In 1987, he traveled to Los Angeles hoping to meet with Schaeffer on the set of My Sister Sam, but Warner Bros. security turned him away. He returned a month later armed with a knife, but security guards again prevented him from gaining access. He returned to his native Tucson, Arizona, and lost focus on Schaeffer for a while as his obsession shifted toward pop singers Tiffany, Debbie Gibson and Madonna.[15]

Bardo watched Schaeffer in the black comedy Scenes from the Class Struggle in Beverly Hills in 1989, in which she appeared in bed with another actor. He became enraged by the scene, apparently out of jealousy, and decided that Schaeffer should be punished for "becoming another Hollywood whore".[16] Arthur Richard Jackson had stalked and stabbed actress Theresa Saldana in 1982, and Bardo learned that Jackson had used a private investigator to obtain Saldana's address.[17] Bardo then paid a detective agency in Tucson $250 to find Schaeffer's home address in California's Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) records.[18][19] His brother helped him get a Ruger GP100 .357 handgun.[20]

Bardo traveled to Los Angeles a third time and roamed the neighborhood where Schaeffer lived, asking people if she actually lived there.[9] Once he was certain that the address was correct, he rang the doorbell.[21] Schaeffer was preparing for an audition for The Godfather Part III and was expecting a script to be delivered, so she answered the door.[22][23] Bardo showed her a letter and autograph that she had previously sent him; after a short conversation,[24] she asked him not to come to her home again. He went to a diner nearby and had breakfast,[9] then returned to her apartment an hour later.[21] She answered the door with "a cold look on her face", Bardo later said.[13] He pulled out the handgun and shot her in the chest at point-blank range in the doorway of her apartment building; according to Bardo, she fell and said only, "Why?"[25] Schaeffer was rushed to the emergency room of Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, where she was pronounced dead 30 minutes after her arrival.[26] She was buried at Ahavai Sholom Cemetery in Portland.[27]

Edited August 11, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Notabug]

13 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Okay yeah if that's the kind of life you think is appropriate for a child and it's all good as long as that person barely survives then that's fine, we will never see eye to eye.

Being stalked is not fun and games.   It is a life I would wish on no one.  

The Rebecca Shaeffer incident is very relevant here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_Schaeffer

Not entirely relevant since Schaeffer was an adult, albeit a young one, at the time she appeared on My Sister Sam.  She started working as a professional model at age 17, but did no professional acting until she was over 18.  There is also no evidence that her parents pushed her or profited from her acting or did anything else out of the norm.  They did let her move to NYC and finish her senior year of high school there while working as a model, but, once again, she was very nearly an adult by that time and had done no professional acting prior to that.  So, in order to prevent her from being stalked and killed by an unstable fan, she would've had to not have ever acted at all.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Notabug

[bluegirl147]

As long as there are multigenerational stories being told there are going to be child actors.   Instead of not having child actors how about we ensure those children (and actually all children) are safe.  I don't know how we do that but clearly more can be done.  

We know child sex abuse happens in the church.  Do we not have altar boys anymore? No we try to weed out the pedophile priests.  Hollywood needs to weed out the abusers.

[Ms Blue Jay]

But I'm saying, it is a case of a stalker killing their victim.  Jodie had several stalkers and they were willing to kill.  She just got lucky and survived.

1 minute ago, bluegirl147 said:

No we try to weed out the pedophile priests. 

They do?  I thought the church was notorious for trying to cover these incidents up?

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

Yes but it did give him more opportunities.   In another industry his victim might have come forward sooner. Does Hollywood even have HR departments?

The discussion has been about whether being a child actor messes up your life and Fred Savage was used as an example.  My point is that I don't think Fred being a child actor led to him being a creep.

Fred actually had been reported going way back to his first wonder years stint. But companies either canceled the show, paid resolution and kept it quiet which allowed Fred to move onto other roles.  This is also not related to being a child actor because it happens in other industries.

15 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Being stalked is not fun and games.   It is a life I would wish on no one.  

No it's not.  But she also wasn't a child actor when she was stalked.

[bluegirl147]

2 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

They do?  I thought the church was notorious for trying to cover these incidents up?

They still do but it is more widely known now.  Doesn't mean it doesn't still happen but more people are aware that it did happen and could be again.

Michael Jackson was credibly accused at least twice and continued to have a career.  I wonder if he was still alive today would he still have a career.

[DearEvette]

I know the bad side of child stardom is real because there are so many stories and they also make for good copy.  But I 100% attribute the bad stories with negligent or bad parents.  It is 100% up to the the parents to make sure their child is protected.  the industry is not going to do that for you.

The former child stars who had good experiences are usually the ones who talk about how vigilant their parents were:  Malcolm Jamal Warner, Brandy, KeKe Palmer, Jesse Tyler Williams, Natalie Portman, Keshia Knight Pulliam, Raven Symone etc (Cosby may have been a dumpster fire, but the kids he had on his show had parents looking out for them).  I am even thinking about Richard Williams father or Venus and Serena and that famous interview where he stops that reporter cold from trying to subtly instill doubt in Venus.

One thing these kids all have in common is that they talk about their parents being present, allowing them still be the child in their families, doing chores, not elevating them over other siblings, making sure they knew how to take care of their own finances, and protecting their money and not expecting them to take care of the family.  KeKe Palmer's mother was ALWAYS on set when KeKe was young.

Compare that to people like Kit Culkin and  Dina Lohan, et. al who seem to be as much in it for themselves as their child.

[Ms Blue Jay]

6 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

No it's not.  But she also wasn't a child actor when she was stalked.

The story very clearly states the reason he stalked her was because of her child acting career.

Pretending all of these horrible incidences are just coincidences and the exact same incidences would happen to any other child who doesn't act is very strange.  These are direct cause and effect.

Yes, normal people are stalked every day.  But willingly putting your child into Hollywood stardom has a direct cause of more prevalence of such incidents.  There is always the choice of not doing that.

If being in Hollywood is not a bad thing for children, I wonder why some celebrities are so protective of their kids and keep them private? 🙄

Edited August 11, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Notabug]

2 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

They do?  I thought the church was notorious for trying to cover these incidents up?

Not anytime in the past couple years from what I've seen.  The Catholic Church in the US has a program called Virtus which anyone who works in any capacity with children within a Church setting is required to complete which includes extensive education on the history of child exploitation in the church, how to detect signs and symptoms of abuse in children, how to detect abusive behavior in adults and includes detailed instructions on how to report any suspected problems to the police.  Not to the pastor, not to the bishop, to the cops.  Every time.

My nephew got a summer job mowing the lawn at a local Catholic high school and he had to take Virtus even though he had no contact with students simply because he was present on the campus while students attended summer classes and participated in summer sports programs.

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, Notabug said:

And a Jodie Foster, Brooke Shields, Jason Bateman and a whole lot of others.

Exactly. Some child stars are intelligent and choose to go to college and further their educations. Ivy League universities.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Cinnabon

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Exactly. Some child stars are intelligent and choose to go to college and further their educations. Ivy League universities.

I have to wonder if that's because some of them never wanted to act in the first place.

Foster's career began with an appearance in a Coppertone television advertisement in 1965, when she was three years old.[13][25](p 73)[26] Her mother had intended only for Jodie's older brother Buddy to audition, but had taken Jodie with them to the casting call, where she was noticed by the casting agents.[12][13][25](p 73) The television spot led to more advertising work, and in 1968 to a minor appearance in the sitcom Mayberry R.F.D., in which her brother starred.[13][25](p 74) In the following years Foster continued working in advertising and appeared in over 50 television shows; she and her brother became the breadwinners of the family during this time.[12][25](p 73)

[Irlandesa]

35 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The story very clearly states the reason he stalked her was because of her child acting career.

But that could have happened if she weren't a child actor just as easily.  And even though I'm sure it was a scary experience, she herself is okay mentally and emotionally. 

And it had nothing to do with how Hollywood treated Jodie Foster as a child star. 

I guess I have a narrow scope of the destructive value of being a child star in that I look at how a child star is treated, while actually being a child, can lead to a life of self-destruction. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Irlandesa

[Cinnabon]

15 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

As long as there are multigenerational stories being told there are going to be child actors.   Instead of not having child actors how about we ensure those children (and actually all children) are safe.  I don't know how we do that but clearly more can be done.  

We know child sex abuse happens in the church.  Do we not have altar boys anymore? No we try to weed out the pedophile priests.  Hollywood needs to weed out the abusers.

Exactly this. Let’s shut down all the churches because of all of the abuse that occurs in them and gets covered up. This I could get behind!