Predator and Prey: Assault, harassment, and other aggressions in the entertainment industry

[Zella]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

It’s insane! I’ve never mentioned either of their names or anything about this situation on Twitter nor have I ever sought out any hashtags related to either of them and yet I get promoted shit about ‘Free Johnny’ or ‘Amber is the devil’ or whatever the hell it is all the time! That’s why it feels like paid for propaganda or something to me. It’s so bizarre.

I was talking about this with a couple of coworkers today. One of them pulled up YouTube, and 1/3 of her home page recommendations were for Johnny Depp/Amber Heard trial videos, and she is not someone who cares about the case or celebrity gossip. She even said, "I'm so tired of Johnny Depp--why is he here?" LOL And another coworker chimed in that her YT notifications are in overdrive trying to recommend content about the case, though she's not watching it. And I'm getting slammed with them too despite not watching anything about it, though I have read a couple of articles. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Zella

[Columbo]

23 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Uh yeah they are.   Abuse is not just hitting.   Its about control.   threats can be abusive.   Throwing things even they don't hit a person can be abusive.    

I think Amber is the main agressor here.   She pushes his buttons and is even abusive to him, but he did he share.    I've defended Johnny before but the text pushed me out of that.   They were both toxic terrible people.   Mutual abuse is a thing.    They are the perfect example of it.

People take texts too seriously imo, and throwing stuff is just Depp showing restraint. Like you said Amber pushed his buttons. Him throwing stuff was showing restraint against her mind games. 

16 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Law enforcement sees it differently.

The law isn't always right. 

[merylinkid]

20 minutes ago, Columbo said:

and throwing stuff is just Depp showing restraint. Like you said Amber pushed his buttons. Him throwing stuff was showing restraint against her mind games. 

Throwing things is an implicit threat.    "See I am throwing things instead of hitting you.   Which I totally could."   

In the anger management class, an abuser is often proud of how well they are doing since they throw things now instead of hit.   The instructor tells them quite quickly that no they haven't improved, they've just moved their method of control.  

 

[Columbo]

25 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Throwing things is an implicit threat.    "See I am throwing things instead of hitting you.   Which I totally could."   

In the anger management class, an abuser is often proud of how well they are doing since they throw things now instead of hit.   The instructor tells them quite quickly that no they haven't improved, they've just moved their method of control.  

 

Its only a implicit threat to the paranoid, to those who want to be a victim. Throwing things means nothing.

[merylinkid]

I'm going with the experts who actually teach the anger management courses on this one.   A LOT of things that might mean "nothing" out of context mean something in an abuse context.   It's what a reasonable person in that situation would understand the thing to mean.   

[SusanM]

44 minutes ago, Columbo said:

Its only a implicit threat to the paranoid, to those who want to be a victim. Throwing things means nothing.

Before my sister ended her marriage her husband, while technically never physically abusive, did throw a carton of eggs at her and on another occasion a pair of shoes.  The worst thing he did though in this regard was slamming a fist down on a table or hitting a wall.  The implied threat was intentional and I don't think you'd have to be paranoid to feel threatened.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Ok all, it's starting to get personal. Everyone has a different opinion, so let's end this particular debate here. 

Further reminder to discuss issues only, not fellow posters or their reactions. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

22 hours ago, Zella said:

I was talking about this with a couple of coworkers today. One of them pulled up YouTube, and 1/3 of her home page recommendations were for Johnny Depp/Amber Heard trial videos, and she is not someone who cares about the case or celebrity gossip. She even said, "I'm so tired of Johnny Depp--why is he here?" LOL And another coworker chimed in that her YT notifications are in overdrive trying to recommend content about the case, though she's not watching it. And I'm getting slammed with them too despite not watching anything about it, though I have read a couple of articles. 

Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!  It's EVERYWHERE! 

On 4/27/2022 at 7:26 PM, peachmangosteen said:

It’s insane! I’ve never mentioned either of their names or anything about this situation on Twitter nor have I ever sought out any hashtags related to either of them and yet I get promoted shit about ‘Free Johnny’ or ‘Amber is the devil’ or whatever the hell it is all the time! That’s why it feels like paid for propaganda or something to me. It’s so bizarre.

Yes!  I'm so glad you are pointing this out!  I watch the same thing on YouTube like sitcoms and Mariah Carey.  So why am I inundated with this!

I am not sure what topic this was posted in but thank you to whomever posted the David O Russell article it was very enlightening.  

https://www.bustle.com/p/david-o-russells-history-of-alleged-abusive-behavior-spans-many-years-movies-2982064

More info here

https://consequence.net/2021/06/david-o-russell-controversies-timeline/

Edited April 28, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[supposebly]

I get a lot of stuff recommended to me on Youtube, that doesn't mean I have to watch it. Just click, "do not recommend/not interested", and it's gone.

Back to topic. Why is the fact that David Russell is an abusive ass news? Even I heard about it way back when. What bugs me more, Timothy Olyphant, one of my favourites, is in his latest movie.

[Luckylyn]

I remember hearing horror stories about David ORussell for years.  If I remember correctly.  On the set of Three Kings George Clooney and Russell got into a physical fight.  There was a leaked of  Lily Tomlin and him arguing  in the middle if shooting a scene in I ❤️Hukabees including him throwing things but they reconciled afterwards.  He was so nasty to Amy Adams while shooting American Hustle that her costar Christian Bale intervened.

George Clooney Once Got in a Fistfight With This Controversial Director

Video of Tomlin/ORussell argument

Lily Tomlin revisits David O. Russell drama

Amy Adams: David O Russell made me cry every day on American Hustle

I think Lily Tomlin talking about Russell being brilliant is very telling.  There’s this unfortunate attitude that artistic people who are abusive should be tolerated because their work is so good.  The product they are creating is more valued than the human beings being abused by the creator.  It’s how so many monstrous people continue working in Hollywood.

 

[supposebly]

It's funny that that excuse is never applied to abusive women. But she's so brilliant, so it's ok!🙄 Merryll Streep would be nowhere if she was a abusive on set.

I expected better from Lily Tomlin. Although I guess she is also a product of her time where that mindset has been and still is acceptable. At least as applied to men.

[Luckylyn]

4 minutes ago, supposebly said:

It's funny that that excuse is never applied to abusive women. But she's so brilliant, so it's ok!🙄 Merryll Streep would be nowhere if she was a abusive on set.

I expected better from Lily Tomlin. Although I guess she is also a product of her time where that mindset has been and still is acceptable. At least as applied to men.

Women who are viewed as difficult get villainized potentially leading them to struggle to get new projects but men who are difficult are more likely to be excused getting opportunities to work again.

[Stats Queen]

9 hours ago, Columbo said:

Its only a implicit threat to the paranoid, to those who want to be a victim. Throwing things means nothing.

My ex husband started with throwing things at the wall and graduated to physically abusing me. 
I didn’t want to be a victim, I was a victim.

[Ms Blue Jay]

7 hours ago, supposebly said:

I get a lot of stuff recommended to me on Youtube, that doesn't mean I have to watch it. Just click, "do not recommend/not interested", and it's gone.

Haha.  I don't think we were under the impression that we were forced to watch it.  But the recommendations are usually based on things we actually like and seek out.  It's weird when they're not, and we're wondering if YouTube is being paid to promote certain things.  They must be.

I won't mention the artist, but there's an artist I'm not a particular fan of and for a time after EVERY video I watched stopped her latest one was always there being promoted as the "next" video to watch.  She obviously has some kind of deal with YT.

6 hours ago, supposebly said:

I expected better from Lily Tomlin. Although I guess she is also a product of her time where that mindset has been and still is acceptable. At least as applied to men.

Jennifer Lawrence is a Millennial and she defends David in those articles and says he's one of her best friends and blah blah blah.  Of course, David is obsessed her and made her a star, so.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

7 hours ago, supposebly said:

Back to topic. Why is the fact that David Russell is an abusive ass news? Even I heard about it way back when. What bugs me more, Timothy Olyphant, one of my favourites, is in his latest movie.

This thread about predators.  The word "news" is not in the title.  Everyone doesn't know everything at every time.  People posted about Jerry Lewis in here.  That's not news.  I'd still like to know about it.

The whole point of #MeToo was for women to share stories like this.  The story could be anywhere from a day old to 100 years old.  It's still good education.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

So three time accused rapist Anthony Anderson is going to be on the Drew Barrymore talk show tomorrow and I'm really annoyed.  Obviously it's to promote black-ish ending and Law and Order.

I remember the day after the Will Smith Slap (TM) happened, Drew didn't mention it on her show and I mentioned that I was surprised.  All of the responses said "Well it's no surprise to me.  Drew only focuses on the positive."

Okay, so having rapists on for publicity is okay and "positive" but what Will did is too negative to discuss. 🙄  Another way that Hollywood can be so hypocritical and so accepting of violence that doesn't happen out in the open.

It especially annoys me because Drew has given a showcase to Dylan Farrow and Evan Rachel Wood to talk about the abuse they've suffered at the hands of very famous predators.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[RealHousewife]

^ Is it possible Drew doesn't know? I never heard Anthony Anderson was a rapist until I found out about it very recently on this forum.

[Ms Blue Jay]

13 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

^ Is it possible Drew doesn't know? I never heard Anthony Anderson was a rapist until I found out about it very recently on this forum.

I do not think that it is remotely possible, no.  It's right on his Wikipedia page.  Have you ever watched her show?  She is all about being fascinated by every aspect of her guest and celebrating them.  It's a talk show, that's what they do, the host fawns over the guests and wants to talk about all the aspects of their career and life.   I think she and her team research all the guests and know what's public about them.  To me, Wikipedia is public and very easily accessible.  

I Googled this issue and there's news stories about this on Google going back to 2018 at least.  I have always heard about these stories and I'm not remotely in Hollywood - Drew is.

Again, this feels like Hollywood hypocrisy - "If it's not out in the open and not being talked about all of the time, then we plead ignorance".  It takes 5 minutes of research.

Drew's show is CBS, I assume L&O is NBC, and that blackish is ABC.  So there's not even a team promotional thing going on.  It's almost like the show is going out of the way to have him on.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[RealHousewife]

2 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I do not think that it is remotely possible, no.  It's right on his Wikipedia page.  Have you ever watched her show?  She is all about being fascinated by every aspect of her guest and celebrating them.  It's a talk show, that's what they do, the host fawns over the guests and wants to talk about all the aspects of their career and life.   I think she and her team research all the guests and know what's public about them.  To me, Wikipedia is public and very easily accessible.  

I've only seen a bit of her show, and not in a long time. It's just so strange. Celebs have gotten a ton of heat for everything from saying stupid things to slaps. It's nuts to celebrate a rapist. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I've only seen a bit of her show, and not in a long time. It's just so strange. Celebs have gotten a ton of heat for everything from saying stupid things to slaps. It's nuts to celebrate a rapist. 

Hollywood seems to love him.  I thought it would die down with black-ish but then he landed another huge show right away.  I know he was on L&O before, but whatever.  I just wonder when the reckoning will come.  

[RealHousewife]

Just now, Ms Blue Jay said:

Hollywood seems to love him.  I thought it would die down with black-ish but then he landed another huge show right away.  I know he was on L&O before, but whatever.  I just wonder when the reckoning will come.  

It's sad there's still such a long way to go to get creeps out of Hollywood. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Casey Affleck is also in Christopher Nolan's Oppenheimer that will come out next year.  He's not the star, but he's definitely in it.  I doubt his career will die anytime soon either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casey_Affleck#Sexual_harassment_allegations

Here is a case of an actor who is CONSTANTLY getting work, both tv and movies, but his predatory stuff has never "made" the Wikipedia page.  I always hear talk about his bad behaviour on Twitter - but it hasn't "made" it that far yet:  Jared Leto.

Why is no one talking about Jared Leto’s history of paedophilia and predatory behaviour?

https://screenshot-media.com/visual-cultures/toxic-masculinity/jared-leto-predatory-behaviour/

It's Time for a Jared Leto Reckoning 

https://www.gawker.com/celebrity/its-time-for-a-jared-leto-reckoning-morbius

Edited April 29, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

Oh my god, I just saw a commercial for a new show called Almost Paradise starring Christian Kane!  Another actor who has been mentioned in this thread!!!!!

Okay I was wrong.  This is not a new show - there is just a new season.  Who greenlights these fucking decisions?!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almost_Paradise_(TV_series)

Silence on the Set: Claims of Harassment and Assault Within Portland’s Film Community

https://www.portlandmercury.com/film/2022/03/01/38778177/silence-on-the-set-claims-of-harassment-and-assault-within-portlands-film-community

His Wikipedia page makes no mention of these accusations.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[BetterButter]

Zara Phythian and husband Victor Marke accused of sex with child

Quote

An actress and her husband repeatedly had sex with a 13-year-old girl after grooming her, a court has heard.

 

[merylinkid]

18 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

He was so nasty to Amy Adams while shooting American Hustle that her costar Christian Bale intervened.

How bad do you have to be that CHRISTIAN BALE thinks you have gone too far?

As for Anthony Anderson I have no idea why Hollywood overlooks what he had done.   He is not some great irreplaceable talent.   I mean that seriously.   He's not that good an actor.   So its not like Woody Allen or Bill Cosby.   He's an ensemble actor AT BEST.   Its not like the fact he is in a show guarantees people will tune in.   He's just kinda ... there.   So WHY is getting great roles and hosting gigs?

[Ohiopirate02]

41 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

How bad do you have to be that CHRISTIAN BALE thinks you have gone too far?

As for Anthony Anderson I have no idea why Hollywood overlooks what he had done.   He is not some great irreplaceable talent.   I mean that seriously.   He's not that good an actor.   So its not like Woody Allen or Bill Cosby.   He's an ensemble actor AT BEST.   Its not like the fact he is in a show guarantees people will tune in.   He's just kinda ... there.   So WHY is getting great roles and hosting gigs?

Anthony is the right type of black man, network executives and their largely white audiences see him as "safe." He also knows how to act for his white bosses to keep the façade going.   I'm going to hazard a guess that all of his accusers are black women who are in positions working "beneath" Anthony.  Anthony is following the predator's playbook and choosing women who are not initially believed or ever taken seriously.  The women who's accusations are immediately dismissed because they did not do something "right" following the incident.  From not contacting law enforcement within a tiny window of time immediately following the incident to wearing the "wrong" clothes or being in the "wrong" place alone with him, etc.  

[bluegirl147]

13 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

^ Is it possible Drew doesn't know? I never heard Anthony Anderson was a rapist until I found out about it very recently on this forum.

There have been allegations for years and for whatever reason they have never been covered widely in the media.  There have been men who have been accused of less that have gotten more attention.

[RealHousewife]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

There have been allegations for years and for whatever reason they have never been covered widely in the media.  There have been men who have been accused of less that have gotten more attention.

Thank you for this info! I'm obviously on here quite a bit and watch my fair share of TV. Never heard of the allegations at all until very recently. It's so weird how stuff that's a lot less horrific will create more sensation in the media. 

[Bastet]

15 hours ago, BetterButter said:

Zara Phythian and husband Victor Marke accused of sex with child

Sounds like he does a whole lot of grooming -- Phythian was 20 when their abuse of this girl started, but Marke is a little more than ten years older, and their relationship began a few years earlier when Phythian was a teenager, and Marke - who was married to someone else at the time - was also abusing a younger teen (that's why he's facing four more charges than she is, those brought in relation to that earlier victim).  Disgusting.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Bastet

[andromeda331]

21 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Oh my god, I just saw a commercial for a new show called Almost Paradise starring Christian Kane!  Another actor who has been mentioned in this thread!!!!!

Okay I was wrong.  This is not a new show - there is just a new season.  Who greenlights these fucking decisions?!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almost_Paradise_(TV_series)

Silence on the Set: Claims of Harassment and Assault Within Portland’s Film Community

https://www.portlandmercury.com/film/2022/03/01/38778177/silence-on-the-set-claims-of-harassment-and-assault-within-portlands-film-community

His Wikipedia page makes no mention of these accusations.

Yeah, I was so excited when the show got renewed I really liked Almost Paradise and I loved Christian Kane. I also really love Leverage. The reboot was great and without Timothy Hutton. That was before I found out about the allegations here. It really stinks.

[Spartan Girl]

What Bill Murray has to say for himself

[peachmangosteen]

Dirty Dancing star Jennifer Grey claims ex-fiancé Johnny Depp was ‘crazy jealous and paranoid’

[ouinason]

we need a sarcastic surprise reaction button.  

[Pickles Aplenty]

4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Dirty Dancing star Jennifer Grey claims ex-fiancé Johnny Depp was ‘crazy jealous and paranoid’

It's stories like this that makes me wonder why some people think it's preposterous that Johnny Depp could be a violent, abusive asshole.  There are SO MANY red flags with this guy, why are people acting like he's always been an innocent angel?

One of my theories is that a lot of fans are much younger than me, and know Johnny Depp as Captain Jack Sparrow and the quirky Tim Burton characters.  That Johnny Depp was with a longtime partner, had two children, and seemed to be on the wagon.  To them, it might look like Amber Heard is some crazy succubus who entered his life with the sole purpose of ruining it.  I don't know, I just think this whole case is crazy, and a lot more complicated than people are making it out to be.  Johnny Depp hasn't been okay for a long time.  He needs serious help.

[Spartan Girl]

I didn’t even know Jennifer Grey was with him. It may have been a long time ago and even if he didn’t actually hit her or anything, thank goodness she got out when she did.

[Cinnabon]

I don’t know anyone who thinks Johnny Depp is an innocent angel. 🤷‍♀️

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Pickles Aplenty said:

It's stories like this that makes me wonder why some people think it's preposterous that Johnny Depp could be a violent, abusive asshole.  There are SO MANY red flags with this guy, why are people acting like he's always been an innocent angel?

One of my theories is that a lot of fans are much younger than me, and know Johnny Depp as Captain Jack Sparrow and the quirky Tim Burton characters.  That Johnny Depp was with a longtime partner, had two children, and seemed to be on the wagon.  To them, it might look like Amber Heard is some crazy succubus who entered his life with the sole purpose of ruining it.  I don't know, I just think this whole case is crazy, and a lot more complicated than people are making it out to be.  Johnny Depp hasn't been okay for a long time.  He needs serious help.

Part of this is the very specific questions asked to Johnny's former girlfriends and fiancées.  Winona, Kate, and Vanessa were asked "did he hit you?" without any elaboration, so their answers were no.  As far as I know, none of them were asked follow-up questions that would show a pattern of other abusive behaviors--trashing hotel rooms, slamming doors, verbal tirades, etc.  . It's not lost on me that the collective we require the women who dated Johnny to talk about stuff like this.  Winona, Kate, and Vanessa should be able to keep their private lives private and not be interrogated about the behaviors of their ex.  Many people took their nos as absolution for Johnny instead of realizing none of those women are Amber, and it is very possible that Johnny's behavior escalated as his drinking became worse.  There's also the possibility that they were able to diffuse Johnny in ways that Amber was never equipped to.  Not that it makes it Amber's job to diffuse a drunk Johnny in the first place, nor is it her fault that she was unable to.  The only person responsible for Johnny Depp is Johnny Depp.  

His whole "wino forever" ethos has an appeal to a lot of people in the same way Woody Allen's waving across the park to Mia and her children held sway in the early 90s.  It's being an adult without having to do any of the hard work.  And, it's far easier to blame Amber than to think about what decades of heavy drinking and drug use will do to a person.  

[FilmTVGeek80]

1 hour ago, Pickles Aplenty said:

It's stories like this that makes me wonder why some people think it's preposterous that Johnny Depp could be a violent, abusive asshole.  There are SO MANY red flags with this guy, why are people acting like he's always been an innocent angel?

One of my theories is that a lot of fans are much younger than me, and know Johnny Depp as Captain Jack Sparrow and the quirky Tim Burton characters.  That Johnny Depp was with a longtime partner, had two children, and seemed to be on the wagon.  To them, it might look like Amber Heard is some crazy succubus who entered his life with the sole purpose of ruining it.  I don't know, I just think this whole case is crazy, and a lot more complicated than people are making it out to be.  Johnny Depp hasn't been okay for a long time.  He needs serious help.

Stories like what? All she says is during one period of time he could be jealous and paranoid. That's not the same as being violent and abusive. And as cinnabon said, no one said he was an innocent angel.

19 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I don’t know anyone who thinks Johnny Depp is an innocent angel. 🤷‍♀️

Exactly.

4 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Part of this is the very specific questions asked to Johnny's former girlfriends and fiancées.  Winona, Kate, and Vanessa were asked "did he hit you?" without any elaboration, so their answers were no.  As far as I know, none of them were asked follow-up questions that would show a pattern of other abusive behaviors--trashing hotel rooms, slamming doors, verbal tirades, etc.  . It's not lost on me that the collective we require the women who dated Johnny to talk about stuff like this.  Winona, Kate, and Vanessa should be able to keep their private lives private and not be interrogated about the behaviors of their ex.  Many people took their nos as absolution for Johnny instead of realizing none of those women are Amber, and it is very possible that Johnny's behavior escalated as his drinking became worse.  There's also the possibility that they were able to diffuse Johnny in ways that Amber was never equipped to.  Not that it makes it Amber's job to diffuse a drunk Johnny in the first place, nor is it her fault that she was unable to.  The only person responsible for Johnny Depp is Johnny Depp.  

His whole "wino forever" ethos has an appeal to a lot of people in the same way Woody Allen's waving across the park to Mia and her children held sway in the early 90s.  It's being an adult without having to do any of the hard work.  And, it's far easier to blame Amber than to think about what decades of heavy drinking and drug use will do to a person.  

If you actually read Vanessa and Winona's statements they both say categorically that he was never abusive in any way. Not just that he never hit them. So, instead of trying to come up with ways in how they were really abused by Johnny and just didn't realize it or are holding back, maybe take them at their word. And, I'm sorry, slamming doors now is abusive behavior? Seriously. 

Amber is not responsible necessarily for Johnny's drinking, but she's certainly responsible for her drinking and her violent behavior and her lies. Amber also has some of these same patterns of abusive behaviors you're trying to lay solely at Depp's feet, including being the only one out of the two of them arrested for domestic violence.

[Pickles Aplenty]

7 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Part of this is the very specific questions asked to Johnny's former girlfriends and fiancées.  Winona, Kate, and Vanessa were asked "did he hit you?" without any elaboration, so their answers were no.  As far as I know, none of them were asked follow-up questions that would show a pattern of other abusive behaviors--trashing hotel rooms, slamming doors, verbal tirades, etc.  . It's not lost on me that the collective we require the women who dated Johnny to talk about stuff like this.  Winona, Kate, and Vanessa should be able to keep their private lives private and not be interrogated about the behaviors of their ex.  Many people took their nos as absolution for Johnny instead of realizing none of those women are Amber, and it is very possible that Johnny's behavior escalated as his drinking became worse.  There's also the possibility that they were able to diffuse Johnny in ways that Amber was never equipped to.  Not that it makes it Amber's job to diffuse a drunk Johnny in the first place, nor is it her fault that she was unable to.  The only person responsible for Johnny Depp is Johnny Depp.  

His whole "wino forever" ethos has an appeal to a lot of people in the same way Woody Allen's waving across the park to Mia and her children held sway in the early 90s.  It's being an adult without having to do any of the hard work.  And, it's far easier to blame Amber than to think about what decades of heavy drinking and drug use will do to a person.  

Very true.  That first point you made reminds me of the podcast You're Wrong About, where Sarah Marshall talks about the questions O.J. Simpson's partners were asked.  It was always, "Did O.J. hit you?", never "Did O.J. ever scare you?".  Also interesting to note that Nicole Brown Simpson was criticized for hitting O.J. back on occasion.  She wasn't the "perfect" victim, either.

I've also been thinking about Fight, Flight, Freeze, or Fawn.  It's possible that Johnny's former partners had very different reactions to his drunken rages than Amber Heard, who could very well have a Fight response.  We don't know, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.

[Pickles Aplenty]

37 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

And, I'm sorry, slamming doors now is abusive behavior? Seriously. 

It can be, yes.  My mother used to slam my bedroom door so hard it nearly came off its hinges over minor offenses.  She also hit me.  Abuse covers a wide spectrum of behavior, it isn't just hitting someone.

[FilmTVGeek80]

On 4/27/2022 at 8:31 PM, Dani said:

You’re sure of that?

Actually is would bother me but I haven’t seen anyone saying that Amber is completely innocent in months. Mostly I see people painting Johnny as an innocent victim or that they are both awful people. I am posting my issues with Johnny because the case at hand is if he abused her. I am not a supporter of Amber. She’s awful.

One thing that bothers me is that I haven’t seen anyone who supports Johnny address the abusive things he’s done that are proven. The things that he has admitted to doing like the texts or the video of him throwing things. I also haven’t seen them address what role Johnny’s alcoholism and anger issues plays. 

To me, what he admitted to alone is an abusive relationship. If someone I knew was in a relationship with a person who did only the things that Johnny or his legal team admits to, I would be deeply concerned about their safety. That is why I can’t see him as a victim in all of this. 

Some of the arguments here and elsewhere do lean pretty heavily into solely defending her and acting like she's innocent. While she doesn't have as much support as him on Twitter there are plenty of #IStandWithAmberHeard and #JusticeforAmber people who paint her as some poor abused victim who never was physical, and if she was, it was only because he made her do it. The court case may simply be "did she defame him" but if she was abusive I do think actually plays an important role in that as well.

I don't care about the texts. I, honestly, think it's a little ridiculous people are making a huge deal about it. So he wished death on his abuser and referred to her in less than genteel terms. I would probably say pretty harsh things about my abuser as well. And, unless he was throwing things at her, I don't care about him destroying property. That's not the same as abusing someone and not the same as Amber throwing things at him, including an incident that resulted in his finger getting chopped off.  I also don't believe that just because someone is an addict makes them an abuser.

[Ohiopirate02]

33 minutes ago, Pickles Aplenty said:

Very true.  That first point you made reminds me of the podcast You're Wrong About, where Sarah Marshall talks about the questions O.J. Simpson's partners were asked.  It was always, "Did O.J. hit you?", never "Did O.J. ever scare you?".  Also interesting to note that Nicole Brown Simpson was criticized for hitting O.J. back on occasion.  She wasn't the "perfect" victim, either.

I've also been thinking about Fight, Flight, Freeze, or Fawn.  It's possible that Johnny's former partners had very different reactions to his drunken rages than Amber Heard, who could very well have a Fight response.  We don't know, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.

I just Googled Fight, Flight, Freeze, or Fawn, and thanks for alerting me to that concept.  I think that is what is at play here with the various partners of Johnny.  I would not be surprised to find out Amber's method is fight.  Also, why if your response is flight, you never were in the position to be hit.  

[FilmTVGeek80]

2 minutes ago, Pickles Aplenty said:

It can be, yes.  My mother used to slam my bedroom door so hard it nearly came off its hinges over minor offenses.  She also hit me.  Abuse covers a wide spectrum of behavior, it isn't just hitting someone.

Sorry for whatever you went through, but anecdotal evidence is not correlation. Just because someone slams a door doesn't make it an abusive action or doesn't automatically mean that someone will be abusive. That's like saying everyone who yells at someone is abusive. People yell at people for all sorts of reasons. Doesn't mean they're an abuser.

[Pickles Aplenty]

Jesus...I can't wrap my head around someone talking about RAPING THEIR PARTNER'S CORPSE being treated like it's just "venting" and not a big deal.  I don't think I will be posting in this thread, anymore.  As a victim of abuse, it isn't doing anything for my mental health.

[rcc]

42 minutes ago, Pickles Aplenty said:

Jesus...I can't wrap my head around someone talking about RAPING THEIR PARTNER'S CORPSE being treated like it's just "venting" and not a big deal.  I don't think I will be posting in this thread, anymore.  As a victim of abuse, it isn't doing anything for my mental health.

Nobody knows what a person has gone through. Abuse is abuse. It takes many different forms.

[Mabinogia]

2 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Amber is not responsible necessarily for Johnny's drinking, but she's certainly responsible for her drinking and her violent behavior and her lies. Amber also has some of these same patterns of abusive behaviors you're trying to lay solely at Depp's feet, including being the only one out of the two of them arrested for domestic violence.

My opinion of this whole mess is that they are two volatile and damaged people who 100% brought out the absolute worst in each other. Neither of them is an angel but neither of them is the devil either. They are both just completely and utterly fucked up and should not be in a relationship with someone who is equally fucked up because this is the result. Of course, they probably shouldn't be will well adjusted people either until they've both received some serious therapy. 

[aradia22]

Quote

It’s not so much that Amber Heard’s PR has failed – though they have – but that Depp’s team has soared. His team under Slate PR also represents Jared Leto and James Franco, for example, two men who have never been in trouble and have been allowed to keep working. The coverage of Depp, in turn, has been widespread and fawning. There are a stupid number of court fancams.

Much has been written about the fervor of Depp’s fans and the cringey supportive tweets making the rounds, but in the start of the trial’s fourth week, people who have previously had no reason to weigh in have begun to speak up. Why, for instance, is Lis Smith, a walking PR embarrassment, defending Precision Strategies, Heard’s former PR firm, saying, “[they’re] one of the best crisis firms –– but they can’t rewrite the history of what’s happened.” Okay? Thank you, Lis Smith, now back to whatever it is you do for Cuomo.

Quote

There’s not even a benefit to staying (relatively) neutral: on her show last week, Drew Barrymore joked about the trial, saying, “It’s like one layer of crazy, it’s a seven-layer dip of insanity. I understand all the feelings, but they are actually offering up this information that nobody had to know. This is crazy!” It’s a relatively innocuous joke, not in great taste, though not mean-spirited either. But Barrymore had to walk back her comments, apologizing in a bizarre video on Instagram. “I can be a more thoughtful and better person moving forward because all I want to do is be a good person and I very much appreciate the depth of this and I will grow and change from it,” Barrymore said. (“Here’s to all of us embracing teachable moments and the aspiration [to] know better and do better and be good people in this world,” commented Evan Ross Katz, for whatever reason.)

But Barrymore was right: this trial is crazy. The only reason we know that the trial is crazy is because Fairfax County allows televisation. Perhaps this is the greater pundit-ification of everything, the way in which everyone becomes an expert on any given topic for all of thirty hours, like the brief period of time in which everyone knew how prop firearms worked in the aftermath of the Rust shooting. Initially, the case wasn’t supposed to be this public, and only through the insistence of Depp’s now-fired lawyer Adam Waldman has information grown more and more available.

That Heard has now hired Shane Communications may help rehabilitate her image over the trial’s final few weeks, but the bulk of the damage has already been done. The publicity of the trial has bounced the verdict into public opinion, such that it’s possible that even if Heard is victorious in the courtroom, her career will suffer. 

https://www.gawker.com/culture/amber-heard-about-the-headlines

[scarynikki12]

James Franco has never been in trouble? And there have been allegations about Jared Leto for years so Gawker got those two wrong.

[Ohiopirate02]

10 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

James Franco has never been in trouble? And there have been allegations about Jared Leto for years so Gawker got those two wrong.

I believe Gawker was being sarcastic there.  James and Jared are two men who somehow keep on getting high profile roles despite accusations.   It's also a backhanded compliment for the PR firm.

[scarynikki12]

1 minute ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I believe Gawker was being sarcastic there.  James and Jared are two men who somehow keep on getting high profile roles despite accusations.   It's also a backhanded compliment for the PR firm.

Oh good. Thanks.