S01.E06: All-New Halloween Spooktacular!

[swanpride]

And I am starting to think that they should have put the kind of a raft instead of an island, to make the reference clearer….

[WildPlum]

9 hours ago, swanpride said:

I don't think that those people are always standing there completely stuck. The implication is that adding so many people to the set strained the ability to have them do whatever they are supposed to do.

Particularly all the kids that came from nowhere on Halloween. Remember in an earlier episode Vision asks her why there are no children, why the playgrounds are always empty.

[Morrigan2575]

34 minutes ago, WildPlum said:

Particularly all the kids that came from nowhere on Halloween. Remember in an earlier episode Vision asks her why there are no children, why the playgrounds are always empty.

They explained where the kids have been..she's kept them in comas. As for the townsfolk i think the ones that aren't directly part of the script/show Wanda is producing are kind of just kept in loops or "powered" down. She's made sure no one can leave which means she has to keep them controlled or in sleep mode so they don't interfere with the show.

[Ottis]

Yawn. You know, if this were the first ep of this show, and we got all the important stuff from the prior 5 eps in 15 minutes, which is completely doable, it seems like one go-to move would be to have someone call, I don’t know, the Avengers? Probably at least one or two would be interested.

Logic continues to be suspended in the service of writers trying to be clever. The show goes for emotional swings in the absence of any reasonable connection. 

[Snapdragon]

55 minutes ago, Ottis said:

Yawn. You know, if this were the first ep of this show, and we got all the important stuff from the prior 5 eps in 15 minutes, which is completely doable, it seems like one go-to move would be to have someone call, I don’t know, the Avengers? Probably at least one or two would be interested.

Logic continues to be suspended in the service of writers trying to be clever. The show goes for emotional swings in the absence of any reasonable connection. 

Are there any Avengers left though?  Because Iron Man, Black Widow and Captain America are out of commission.  Hawkeye retired.  Thor, Captain Marvel and all the Guardians of the Galaxy are in space.  Spiderman is in Europe on a class trip.  Falcon and the Winter Soldier are off doing whatever their series is about.  The Black Panther and company are back in Wakanda.  So that leaves Ant-Man and the Hulk (and the Hulk might also be retired?  Because I'm pretty sure there are no plans for Ruffalo to return).

*Forgot Dr. Strange.  He's pretty much off the grid though, so I doubt SWORD could contact him if they wanted to.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Snapdragon

[cambridgeguy]

6 minutes ago, Snapdragon said:

Are there any Avengers left though?  Because Iron Man, Black Widow and Captain America are out of commission.  Hawkeye retired.  Thor, Captain Marvel and all the Guardians of the Galaxy are in space.  Spiderman is in Europe on a class trip.  Falcon and the Winter Soldier are off doing whatever their series is about.  The Black Panther and company are back in Wakanda.  So that leaves Ant-Man and the Hulk (and the Hulk might also be retired?  Because I'm pretty sure there are no plans for Ruffalo to return).

There's still Rhodes (you know, the guy Tony should have given the EDITH glasses to instead of Peter) who also has a history of working with the government.  Admittedly I don't think he's close enough to Wanda to get through to her but he's probably still active.

Hawkeye (i.e. the guy who does have that closeness with Wanda) should also be a phone call away even if he's officially retired.  In reality he should be standing trial for his murderous rampage while he was Ronin but maybe he's gotten the house arrest deal instead.

Edited February 14, 2021 by cambridgeguy

[Sakura12]

1 hour ago, Snapdragon said:

Because I'm pretty sure there are no plans for Ruffalo to return).

Ruffalo is going to be on She-Hulk. So the Hulk is around. 

Hayward doesn't like Avengers, so he would never call them. And if the rest are off world or out of the country they may not have heard about it yet. I believe its only been a few days. However now that we are down to the last few episodes I think we will be seeing someone come help. 

[Kromm]

21 hours ago, swanpride said:

I don't think that those people are always standing there completely stuck. The implication is that adding so many people to the set strained the ability to have them do whatever they are supposed to do.

I hope you mean adding the kids and not the end adding the soldiers and Scientists. Because that's the only way that logic works.

7 hours ago, Ottis said:

Yawn. You know, if this were the first ep of this show, and we got all the important stuff from the prior 5 eps in 15 minutes, which is completely doable, it seems like one go-to move would be to have someone call, I don’t know, the Avengers? Probably at least one or two would be interested.

Logic continues to be suspended in the service of writers trying to be clever. The show goes for emotional swings in the absence of any reasonable connection. 

They've been perfectly clear with the logic, if the viewer is patient. Hayward is revealed to have his own anti-superhero agenda. He's not going to call the people he not only doesn't trust, but who he's quite possibly conducting an operation against. Vision's body wasn't at SWORD by accident. 

[Bruinsfan]

On 2/12/2021 at 6:17 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Holy crap. I got serious Once Upon A Time vibes from that ending of the barrier expanding, along with the revelation that Vision can’t survive outside of the town. And now Darcy’s stuck in it.

But Vision didn't revert to his grayed-out deactivated self once outside the barrier. Instead something was actively pulling him back inside, piece by piece. I don't think it's that he can't survive outside the Hex so much as something (other than Wanda) doesn't WANT him to. His slow movements and the sound effects made me think he had assumed full ultra-high density to better push against the force trying to hold him in.

[Perfect Xero]

5 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Ruffalo is going to be on She-Hulk. So the Hulk is around. 

Hayward doesn't like Avengers, so he would never call them. And if the rest are off world or out of the country they may not have heard about it yet. I believe its only been a few days. However now that we are down to the last few episodes I think we will be seeing someone come help. 

Around or not, Banner is probably the worst person to bring anywhere near Wanda right now given their history. "No, we're way past that. I could choke the life out of you and never change a shade."

There's also the issue that anyone brought near Wanda is likely to fall under her mind control, so actual powered/skilled people need to be kept away from her.

[Featherhat]

11 hours ago, Ottis said:

Yawn. You know, if this were the first ep of this show, and we got all the important stuff from the prior 5 eps in 15 minutes, which is completely doable, it seems like one go-to move would be to have someone call, I don’t know, the Avengers? Probably at least one or two would be interested.

Logic continues to be suspended in the service of writers trying to be clever. The show goes for emotional swings in the absence of any reasonable connection. 

Isn't that the way of most MCU movies though, more Avengers could/should show up, especially Tony for something like the Fall of SHIELD or Aliens in Greenwich? Or everyone when Tony was "killed" by a terrorist? Or Captain Marvel in IW and Endgame? Honest Trailers among others had a running bit once where they make fun of it. 

Hayward doesn't like powered people and doesn't seem like the kind of guy to hand over whatever he's doing to someone else. He's not sharing the intel he has with his group and might be doing something really hinky with Vision. Woo even said he was overstepping his authority. It's less about logic and more about the people involved. He fired the trio when they questioned him. 

Not to mention that it's only been a few days and for some of that they were just monitoring the situation and also SWORD did call in for outside help to start with. Monica and Woo are now going to find this possible Marvel Cameo to help.

I don't think this is for everyone and some will like it a lot better once they can binge watch but I personally can't imagine it starting with this or ep 4. I'm sure someone WILL edit it how you suggest at some point though. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Featherhat

[Cobalt Stargazer]

4 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

There's also the issue that anyone brought near Wanda is likely to fall under her mind control, so actual powered/skilled people need to be kept away from her.

"I've done the whole mind control thing. Not a fan."



At this point in canon, Barton is the only one who has been able to anticipate Wanda before she could work her mojo on him. He was also the last one to have a conversation with her, before all this started. Even if Jeremy Renner isn't available for a cameo, Hawkeye is the one to name-check here.

[swanpride]

True. of all the Avengers he is the one closest to her...but then, there might be some resentment there too. Someone pointed out to me that the shark in the commercial might represent Clint, because he is the one who encouraged her to embrace her abilities in the first place but then also lead her into a situation (the raft) where she had it directly in front of her and couldn't reach it, and Clint wasn't able to help her. If Cap hadn't come, who knows what would have happened.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

1 hour ago, swanpride said:

 If Cap hadn't come, who knows what would have happened.

At the risk of starting a circular argument, Steve only showed up to rescue Wanda and the others from the Raft once he'd read Bucky a bedtime story, and by then the collar was already in place. I would even argue that his prioritizing of Barnes above and beyond everyone else is part of why she was there in the first place, but that's a debate no one's ever going to win. You're not wrong, and yet. 🙂

[swanpride]

...how is that even relevant for Wanda's trauma?

[Perfect Xero]

15 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

"I've done the whole mind control thing. Not a fan."



At this point in canon, Barton is the only one who has been able to anticipate Wanda before she could work her mojo on him. He was also the last one to have a conversation with her, before all this started. Even if Jeremy Renner isn't available for a cameo, Hawkeye is the one to name-check here.

Well, he managed to stop her back when her powers apparently required being within arms length, but that part of game has drastically changed now.

As, quite probably, the closest thing to a friend that Wanda has left on Earth at the moment, he should be at least mentioned as an option, even if it's just to dismiss him because of his recent world wide murder spree.

[Kel Varnsen]

3 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

As, quite probably, the closest thing to a friend that Wanda has left on Earth at the moment, he should be at least mentioned as an option, even if it's just to dismiss him because of his recent world wide murder spree.

His house and family are completely off any books to the point where only the only living person who knows where he lives is probably out in space somewhere. So even if SWORD wanted to get ahold of him (which I don't think they do) could they even find him?

[Guest]

18 hours ago, Featherhat said:

Isn't that the way of most MCU movies though, more Avengers could/should show up, especially Tony for something like the Fall of SHIELD or Aliens in Greenwich? Or everyone when Tony was "killed" by a terrorist? Or Captain Marvel in IW and Endgame? Honest Trailers among others had a running bit once where they make fun of it. 

Yep. This subject coming up repeatedly is just tilting at windmills. There’s never going to be a satisfactory in-story answer. 

7 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

His house and family are completely off any books to the point where only the only living person who knows where he lives is probably out in space somewhere. So even if SWORD wanted to get ahold of him (which I don't think they do) could they even find him?

He was under house arrest after Civil War. I think it’s safe to say it’s no longer off the books. 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Guest

[Perfect Xero]

1 minute ago, Kel Varnsen said:

His house and family are completely off any books to the point where only the only living person who knows where he lives is probably out in space somewhere. So even if SWORD wanted to get ahold of him (which I don't think they do) could they even find him?

Yes, I would assume that if anything he's even further off the grid than normal given what he's been up to during the snap years.

[Ailianna]

17 hours ago, Dani said:

He was under house arrest after Civil War. I think it’s safe to say it’s no longer off the books. 

Who says he's back at the same house? Seems to me he could find another remote rural farm with a barn and target practice tree.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Ailianna said:

Who says he's back at the same house? Seems to me he could find another remote rural farm with a barn and target practice tree.

I suppose but why bother buying a new farm to live in for a few years. Seems needlessly complicated. 

[Ailianna]

3 hours ago, Dani said:

I suppose but why bother buying a new farm to live in for a few years. Seems needlessly complicated. 

Privacy. Security. Family. And why for a few years? He and his wife could live forty more years. 

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Ailianna said:

Privacy. Security. Family. And why for a few years? He and his wife could live forty more years. 

Yeah. I completely misread your initial post. They could live anywhere since he probably wasn’t that concerned with upkeep on the farm during his killing spree. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Guest

[paigow]

35 minutes ago, Ailianna said:

Privacy. Security. Family. And why for a few years? He and his wife could live forty more years. 

Clint is ready to retire and begins training his replacement an unknown interval after the funeral scene. This is the upcoming Hawkeye series.

[Captain Carrot]

I've been thinking about how someone like Hayward became the director of SWORD and I have to wonder how much Hayward owes his position to process of elimination. He was probably perfectly fine in his pre-snap position. Then roughly half his peers and superiors vanished, others probably left indirectly due to the snap (died in accidents caused by the snap, quit due to depression, etc), than there were the normal deaths and retirements that took place in the last five years. All of which allowed him to rise to the level of his incompetence.

His comment about people that disappeared not knowing what the survivors went through made me realize that Spider-Man Far from Home was from the point of view of people that disappeared. Even the name of the event from the movie, The Blip, is from their point of view. People who suffered for those five years probably HATE that term. They had to deal with the loss of friends and family while the world was falling apart around them; then said friends and family come back and act like those five years didn't matter. (From the point of view of people like Hayward).

[bethy]

I would like it if they didn’t make Hayward a stereo-typical white male middle aged government dude bad guy. They could do some really interesting things with him as a representative of what people have already been touching on - person left behind in the wake of Avenger fallout, overwhelmed, grieving, angry, now - three weeks later - having to deal with another global crisis in terms of billions of people suddenly reappearing plus another powered person wreaking havoc. I’d love to see some sort of nuance with his character.

[Bruinsfan]

Yeah, his comment about Monica's mom was really cheap shorthand to make him The Man, when he could have been presented as a reasonably respectful and compassionate superior who still came down on the side of being hostile to Wanda over her past and current actions. I wish instead of him dismissing good advice from Monica, Jimmy, and Darcy and having them thrown out for disagreeing with him he'd instead considered their input and just calmly informed them that given the stakes and the instability of the situation he was pursuing a surgical strike solution rather than trusting that Wanda could be talked down. I think the audience would still sympathize with the protagonists without having to make their opposition twirl his mustache.

[swanpride]

Can't judge decision just yet because I am pretty sure that he knows more than he lets on.

[Featherhat]

4 hours ago, bethy said:

I would like it if they didn’t make Hayward a stereo-typical white male middle aged government dude bad guy. They could do some really interesting things with him as a representative of what people have already been touching on - person left behind in the wake of Avenger fallout, overwhelmed, grieving, angry, now - three weeks later - having to deal with another global crisis in terms of billions of people suddenly reappearing plus another powered person wreaking havoc. I’d love to see some sort of nuance with his character.

They could have done that, and I think it actually might have been more interesting if they had done the "no easy answer" thing. I do think they've gone past that though. A few potential twists notwithstanding in quick succession they had him: Not listen to any of Monica's first hand intel, "Others" Wanda painting a completely one sided picture that the audience knows isn't even half the story, is shown probably dissecting Vision, points a missile at Wanda without telling Monica, disregards any of her suggestions without listening AGAIN, says misogynistic things about Monica and Darcy - giving Woo the opportunity to showcase himself, crosses about a million lines with Monica's mother, throws them out, is found to be hiding things and his secret agenda is discovered by Darcy, is shown unmoved by Vision disintegrating and chains Darcy to a Jeep whilst leaving her and everyone else and saving himself. 

This isn't "It's all Wanda" but there's a lot of hints that it isn't just her this is "this guy's an asshole, bigoted suit who thinks everyone is a threat or a weapon. 

I do feel sympathetic to the idea that the Snap survivors must have been terrified, grief stricken and had to make some extremely touch questionable choices to survive and that has changed them and how they think and that there is a lot of resentment about those who just got blipped back to "safety" but that immediately got swallowed up in every other thing he said that was just nasty and personal.  

Again it's possible he's trying to work for the greater good against whoever is controlling Wanda or something or another type of twist where it turns out he's more sympathetic in the end. But right now they're really pulling out all the stops on him and not just in a "protect everyone with bombs" way. 

[Ailianna]

1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

I do feel sympathetic to the idea that the Snap survivors must have been terrified, grief stricken and had to make some extremely touch questionable choices to survive and that has changed them and how they think and that there is a lot of resentment about those who just got blipped back to safety...

I understand grief, fear, confusion from Snap survivors but not the idea that it was actually dangerous after the first few hours or days. So what kind of tough or questionable choices could they possibly have had to make? They weren't stranded in a wilderness or starving or in danger of death. They weren't battling for their lives or fighting to survive or anything like it. So I end up thinking that he's just a nasty dick who would be a nasty dick Snap or no.

[Orbert]

Snap survivors faced all kinds of problems, many which could be considered life-threatening.  There were families with young kids and both parents were suddenly gone.  Invalids with their caretakers suddenly gone.  Half the police were gone, half the grocery stores, banks and other businesses suddenly lost half their employees.  And that's just on average.  Some places wouldn't have been affected much, but there would have been areas which were basically anarchy, with no food supply chain but also no police at all, or very few.

[tennisgurl]

Hayward has made some decent enough points, and if he wasn't such a dick about them, he could probably still retain sympathy while also being an antagonist. He isn't wrong that Wanda seems to be doing this, and he doesn't have the information that we have that someone else might be pulling the strings. He isn't wrong that Wanda has has worked for villains before. He isn't wrong that they have to do something to stop this and that innocent people are being hurt. He isn't wrong that life post-snap must have been tough and he probably did go through a lot to keep the lights on at SWORD. Of course, he is clearly being written as being a huge dick about all of those things, so its hard to really take any of his understandable points very seriously. Not only is he clearly cherry picking facts about Wanda's past to make her look like an out of control monster, ignoring the many years of heroing that she did, not to mention helping to save the world, but he clearly went into this with a prejudice against people with powers and that's affecting how he is handling all of this, seeing Wanda as a malfunctioning weapon at best and a terrorist at worse, and not a person clearly having some kind of meltdown. Not to mention him becoming a real petty ass in the last few episodes, throwing Monica's moms death in her face and shit talking his colleagues for no reason other than just trying to come up with different solutions to the problem, and just becoming a prick. Not only that, but he is also ridiculously stupid, trying to take out someone as powerful as Wanda with one stupid bomb, and not thinking about the collateral damage to civilians, nor will he listen to any other information or ideas, the guy apparently got his job because everyone more competent got snapped. 

Of course, there is a lot we don't know yet about what his true goals are or what is even really going on here, so that could change how we feel about him or if he really is as stupid or dickish as he is acting. Is he just the new Thunderbolt Ross, or is there something else going on? The show might be taking a bit of an easy path making the guy most opposed to Wanda such an obvious bad guy, making it so that we don't have to think about his more legit points so that we stay more on Wanda's side, but I am really resisting judgement about all of this until we have the whole story. 

[Kel Varnsen]

5 hours ago, Orbert said:

Snap survivors faced all kinds of problems, many which could be considered life-threatening.  There were families with young kids and both parents were suddenly gone.  Invalids with their caretakers suddenly gone.  Half the police were gone, half the grocery stores, banks and other businesses suddenly lost half their employees.  And that's just on average.  Some places wouldn't have been affected much, but there would have been areas which were basically anarchy, with no food supply chain but also no police at all, or very few.

Plus depending on where you live you might not ever find out what happened or even if you do you might not even believe it. Thanos snapped his fingers in Wakanda and only a very small amount of people actually saw him do it. Depending on how who controls the media in any given country maybe they don't believe it even was Thanos. I watched The Leftovers last year and that show was only about how 3% of the population (of people only) mysteriously disappeared and how much it fucked up society. 50% of all living things would be insane compared to that.

[Chicago Redshirt]

9 hours ago, Ailianna said:

I understand grief, fear, confusion from Snap survivors but not the idea that it was actually dangerous after the first few hours or days. So what kind of tough or questionable choices could they possibly have had to make? They weren't stranded in a wilderness or starving or in danger of death. They weren't battling for their lives or fighting to survive or anything like it. So I end up thinking that he's just a nasty dick who would be a nasty dick Snap or no.

Taking it to the MU/MCU thread. 

[Snapdragon]

Forgot to post this last week so I'm doing it now before heading over to the next episode.  About the commercial, I feel like the shark is supposed to be Thanos and the little boy not being able to open the yogurt and starving to death is alluding to how Wanda couldn't fully access her powers in Infinity War, unlike Thanos who had full control over not just his abilities but every Infinity Stone that he got, and as a result she, Vision and half of the population died.  Thus the whole "YoMagic is the snack for survivors".  So now Wanda's fully embraced her powers as a means of survival.