S06.E20: The Last Leg

[motorcitymom65]

Yeah but don't they call Ramona an alcoholic every other episode? I feel like these women don't take things seriously. Then they take everything too seriously. Then they forget about it. And then they want me to take everything seriously. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Maybe that's my problem with this show. 

But does this particular group call Ramona an alcoholic? I know that in the past this has been said (by Jill, and of course Aviva said it) but I don't think by these gals. As the matter of fact Carole and Heather went out of their way last year to say that they didn't think that she was and that it was horrific to say. Kristen joked about her drinking, especially in light of having a drink thrown in her face, but for the most part, I don't think this is a charge that these gals level at Ramona. They think she is selfish (she is), narcissistic (no doubt), and says things that are hurtful, regardless of whether of not that is her intent (no one does it better), but they are not calling her an alcoholic every other episode. 

Edited July 24, 2014 by motorcitymom65

[Mozelle]

But does this particular group call Ramona an alcoholic? I know that in the past this has been said (by Jill, and of course Aviva said it) but I don't think by these gals. As the matter of fact Carole and Heather went out of their way last year to say that they didn't think that she was and that it was horrific to say. Kristen joked about her drinking, especially in light of having a drink thrown in her face, but for the most part, I don't think this is a charge that these gals level at Ramona. They think she is selfish (she is), narcissistic (no doubt), and says things that are hurtful, regardless of whether of not that is her intent (no one does it better), but they are not calling her an alcoholic every other episode. 

 

I think you're right. There may be some conflating going on here. As far as I remember, the women in the group have not called Ramona an alcoholic. Ramona gets called an alcoholic on social media sites and blogs and message boards.

 

As for whether Aviva is one I'd ever want to know in real life, or one I'd ask to go to a museum with: Nope. I find her to be absolutely horrid. Whatever ideas I'm supposed to derive from her being a Vassar undergrad and a law school grad plus time spent in France are completely nullified by her absolute elitism. From the "white trash" comment to Sonja to her smirky quoting of Rush Limbaugh to her question (shown briefly in the clip for the upcoming reunion) to Heather if she's from the ghetto (because Heather says "Holla!" in her opening) has me thinking some things about Aviva that I don't like. Like RedheadZombie when it comes to Sonja (and I'm agreeing with her there. Sonja's treatment of Naomi is just...), I feel that there are some definite issues that Aviva has (aside from all her phobias and whatnot).

[Talented Tenth]

Since Sonja told US Weekly that she and Ramona cooked up the "Harry gives Sonja a ring" plotline, it wouldn't surprise me if she hatched this scheme with Aviva, starting with her post-Montana chat. She said that she wanted Aviva to know what people were saying about her, but I think it was a set-up for a plotline. I don't believe for a second that Aviva's leg throw was spontaneous. No one comes with x-rays to a party unless they're loaded for bear. 

 

The leg throw was anti-climactic, Sonja's "break up" with Harry was anti-climactic...the scene I probably enjoyed the most was Carole and Ramona having lunch and giggling over Fabio.

Out of curiosity I looked up the story and there is a gossip piece about Sonja with "sources" saying that's what happened.  Is that what you're referring to or is there a story in which there's a quote from Sonja admitting it?

 

I agree the leg toss was anticlimactic.  It wasn't even the fact that I was spoiled in the previews -- I just didn't care about it.  I didn't think it was entertaining in the least.  I did enjoy the season, but the finale left me underwhelmed.

[Grneyedldy]

Thanks for sharing your experience.  I would hope a prosthetic leg is made so it is easy to take off.  But can it be taken off in a second or 2 & without looking down at it?  Cuz that's what it looked like Aviva did.  Alex McCord's theory on what really went down is making more sense to me. She said everyone saw Aviva coming into the restaurant with a ginormous bag & she was sitting at the table, refusing to get up once she sat down & had the table cloth covering her bottom half.  

 

Suspicious behavior?  Well, yeah -- if what she really did was bring an extra leg in the bag she was carrying & just had that extra leg ready to throw, rather than taking the time to remove the one she had attached.  Could this have been the way it happened?  Sheesh, I feel like I'm trying to figure out a JFK conspiracy theory.  Eh, it's only Veevs & her silly nonsense.

I think Aviva bringing an extra leg makes more sense. For all her talk about her missing limb, she's really not that comfortable being an amputee. The Boston bombing victim was more comfortable with her amputation than Aviva has ever shown us to be. Aviva has gone out of her way to show us that her amputation defines her. With most amputees you would never notice their prosthesis or forget they had one, because they wouldn't even think about it themselves.

[ryebread]

Thanks for sharing your experience.  I would hope a prosthetic leg is made so it is easy to take off.  But can it be taken off in a second or 2 & without looking down at it?  

Yes.  In a second.  I know this because I watched some YouTube videos.  You know, for research.  And the prothesis I saw being removed were not as high tech as Aviva's are.  (And my husband thinks the Housewives have zero educational value.,,)

Edited July 24, 2014 by ryebread

[ryebread]

I'm probably the closest thing she has to a fan in that I don't like the other women either and I think she helps expose the hateful things about them. But yeah, she doesn't do anything that's really entertaining to watch. I'd much rather see a replacement that the other women can't discount and diminish by calling her crazy (you're all real girl's girls) who can take down Carol as the big phony she is (not a comment on the ghostwriter thing).

aradia, I had to revisit your post because it's probably the closest to how I feel about why I'm willing to defend certain things about Aviva.  I'm not a fan but I think it's my dislike for the others' hypocritical natures and that she's the one that exposes that and their own hateful qualities.  We've all got 'em - hateful qualities, that is.  For all their talk about owning things and being girl's girls, none of them are.

 

I think that is part and parcel of THEM not liking her, too.  Because she's exposed their ugly underbellies that they were hoping wouldn't be seen. These ladies know what they've done and what their own insides look like. Heather mentioned on WWHL the other night that she saw some of her own behavior that could be improved upon, so I'll give her points for being introspective.  But I also think she's a liar and a phony so like everyone else thinking Aviva lies 100% of the time because they THINK they caught her in a lie, I'm also giving Heather the side eye on that one. 

[tvfanatic13]

I was just able to watch this last night, and need to shout: THAT WAS THE BEST HOUR OF REALITY TELEVISION EVER!!!!! Veevs is bat-shit crazy!

[shoegal]

That's why I said "sometimes". 

 

Born a crazy bitch but with a perfect face?  The closest I got is Brandi.  Possibly Tamara.  I think their face structures are beautiful.  Before they got to all the 'fixing'.  

 

I am of the opinion that it's always easier to not be a crazy bitch than it is to "fix your face", but perhaps that's because I'm not a crazy bitch, so it comes more naturally to me.

 

I do have to say that I find the whole idea that someone needs to "fix their face" to be off putting, and I'm a vain, superficial person.  I am all about makeup tricks, flattering hair styles/colors, staying thin and in shape, wearing good clothes and looking put together, but when it comes to the idea that women need to surgically alter their perfectly normal face to please others, I start getting stabby.  First, I believe that it rarely ever "fixes" anything, I have no scientific data to back this up but I think the almost universal response when someone decides to "fix" their face is not "you look great!" but more "what have you done to your face??" (exception: Ashley Simpson....that was amazing).  Second, I find it really disturbing that as a society, we feel that women need to carve up, implant, suck things out of and inject toxins into our bodies just to be visually pleasing to other people.  Unless you are an accident victim or have suffered a disfigurement, no one needs to "fix their face" IMO and the whole idea just leaves me cold. 

 

That said, I think Carole and Heather are perfectly attractive ladies, as are all of the RHONY ladies.  None of them need "fixing" as far as I'm concerned. 

[Higgins]

Loved her blog.  The conversation Carole reveals about asking Harry to carry her out is priceless. 

 

She also brought up something I was questioning myself.  Asthma is not diagnosed with an xray.

 

No, but an CXR would rule out something more serious like pneumonia or cancer.

.

And what about hair?  No snarking on bad hair?  Sorry, I have to do that.  But everyone's hair on here mostly looks pretty good.  OK, maybe Veevs has the same hair she had in 1986 & Moaner's blowouts kinda look just OK at best, but everyone else looks good.  

 

I only caught a glimpse of Carole at the reunion & I didn't get the blonde hair at all.  Ugh, not good.  It kinda looked like she was channeling Carolyn Bessette, her bestie, the wife of JFK, Jr.  Except she's been dead for 15 years & certainly Carolyn, who was a very, very stylish gal, would not have that hair now, if she were alive.  Anyhoo, the blonde does NOT suit Carole at all.  Not everyone is meant to be a blonde.  I think she needs to try a shorter style.  She doesn't have to go really short, but her hair is too long now.  It's just not flattering..

 

Well, I think Aviva has reached that point she can't possibly redeem herself to any of them.  Sonja seems to be the only one willing to film scenes with her.  And their scenes together mostly make no sense or seem fake or forced.  Moaner has already expressed she doesn't think much of Aviva.  So Veevs' campaign in the beginning of the season to win Moaner's favor really led to nothing.  

 

And all of the rest of them have absolutely no patience for her nonsense & clearly don't want to interact with her.  Apologies won't change that cuz she won't be believed anymore.  And she doesn't seem to think she needs to apologize to anyone anyway -- so she wouldn't do that.  So she has boxed herself into a corner.  She has no future on the show.  The fact that she has badly pissed off the producers by making demands as to when she'd appear would seem to guarantee she's finished.

What makes you think that Carolyn Bessette Kennedy would have cut her hair? I don't understand why so many women want to cut their hair short. If you ask most men, they say don't. They prefer women of all ages with longer hair.

 

 

I'm a nurse, but I have absolutely no experience with a prosthetic as high quality and expensive as Aviva's.

Yes but, Lu was a LPN 30 years ago for 15 minutes. She probably has a lot of experience with modern prosthesis.

 

(ETA: Yes Asthma is very serious, I'm not saying it isn't)

Edited July 24, 2014 by Higgins

[Tararayne]

RedHeadZombie, I agree with everything you said about Sonja. I used to think she was funny, but my opinion has changed. She is vile. What sealed the deal for me was a few episodes ago when the bitch was crying about how her girlfriends were going on vacations and could go to lunch anywhere. What an entitled ignorant piece of work.

And I think her delusions are no longer sad and pathetic. Her delusions, at this point, make me angry. I just want someone to slap her. Let's be clear. NO ONE is paying her "tens of thousands of dollars" for her "consulting" and "marketing". NO ONE. That's not even an exaggeration; she is just completey making shit up. There is no yacht. She has no product lines. There are no perfumes, toaster ovens, wigs, jewelry, and whatever the fuck else she has gone on about. She has mostly made her living on her back, let's get real. I'm so sick of her. It sounds like she will be getting called to the carpet a little for her delusions on the reunion, but I'm sure it won't be enough for my tastes.

[Beden]

I dunno, color me naive but even after all these years I don't understand why anyone thinks that making themselves appear to be a batshit insane jackass is, in any way shape or form, a good thing. And that to have that stupidity broadcast to however many people choose to spend time watching that play out (for whatever entertainment reasons--no offense meant to anyone as I include myself in this) is beyond me...especially when you have to know that at some point your kids, extended family and several million people will see this and that it will live on the internet forever...I truly don't get it.

 

How desperate or delusional does one have to be? Inquiring minds want to know. I am amazed.

[ryebread]

I've seen a lot on various message boards about Heather's nose and Carole's teeth, along the lines of if Heather can afford a liver transplant and ear surgery for her son, why doesn't she spring for a nose job? I can't help but think of Barbra Streisand, who has a very distinctive nose and has refused to "fix" it.

Barbra Streisand said in an interview that she never fixed her nose because it's why her singing voice has that unique tonal quality. She said it was insured for millions.  Maybe Heather is trying to preserve her singing career. If all women ever decide that they're okay with their bodies as they are (such irony) and refuse to purchase products like Yummie any longer, she'd have a fall back. 

 

Of course, I'm kidding.  Not about the Streisand part, though.

I dunno, color me naive but even after all these years I don't understand why anyone thinks that making themselves appear to be a batshit insane jackass is, in any way shape or form, a good thing. And that to have that stupidity broadcast to however many people choose to spend time watching that play out (for whatever entertainment reasons--no offense meant to anyone as I include myself in this) is beyond me...especially when you have to know that at some point your kids, extended family and several million people will see this and that it will live on the internet forever...I truly don't get it.

I don't understand how they think that exposing their jackass side is good for their personal reputations, much less their businesses.  Alas, for some reason people still buy Teresa's books, Ramona's wine, Bethenny's Product du Jour, Josh's eboost (although I've never seen it in person).  I think anyone who appears on one of these shows possesses some mutant personality gene.  But I'm glad they possess these genes because I so enjoy fussin' and discussin' about it with all of you.

[shoegal]

Barbra Streisand said in an interview that she never fixed her nose because it's why her singing voice has that unique tonal quality. She said it was insured for millions.  Maybe Heather is trying to preserve her singing career. If all women ever decide that they're okay with their bodies as they are (such irony) and refuse to purchase products like Yummie any longer, she'd have a fall back. 

 

Of course, I'm kidding.  Not about the Streisand part, though.

 

I don't find shapewear and plastic surgery to be anywhere near the same realm.  I think shapewear is like makeup, it's not like carving your face up.  Obviously, all the ladies care about their appearance and do what they can to make themselves look nice, like wearing make up, working out, getting blowouts, etc...This is not the same as surgically altering your appearance IMO. 

[ginger90]

Sonja's speech at her party was cringe worthy. It sounded like an elementary school child in  the actual wording, and the way she read it. 

And why was she late? She probably lives about what, 5-6 blocks away?

[Mozelle]

I don't know. Going under the knife to "fix your face" is worlds apart from wearing a garment that is meant to give smooth lines under a top or a dress. Heather isn't selling waist-training corsets or advocating for women to get Dita Von Teese's waistline after all.

 

On to my next favorite RHONYCer: Carole Radziwill. As others have noted, her blog didn't disappoint.

 

I took her doctor's business card. Hey, why not? You never know when you'll need a note to get out of gym class. Apparently he’s a “doctor to the stars,” and we all know what that means. That's the doc who will write letters for celebrities saying they suffer from dehydration and exhaustion or mercury poison to get them out of a movie deal or going to rehab.

 

 

We were all corralled over to that table several times. I got up to leave and had to sit back down. Heather was right. Let's get this thing over with and go home. She was waiting for one of us to call her fake and when we didn’t she threw her leg down anyway. I'm glad we gave her the opportunity to do it. It obviously was very important to her. I gave it back to her because it was lying there on the floor and I felt a flash of empathy. Empathy for a woman I cared about once a long, long time ago. And there you have it. A leg on the floor of Le Cirque.

 

 

I say bravo to Carole once again for being the one to return Aviva's leg to her. In the face of Aviva's total attempts to be dramatic (complete with a segue that she had to force), Carole moved passed that and showed herself to be a decent person. 

Edited July 24, 2014 by Mozelle

[BucFan]

I seem to recall sometime last season or maybe it was on last season's reunion that Aviva said she would "never mention her leg again".

When I saw the previews for this season and they showed her going to the farm where the accident happened, I thought oh boy here we go again.

[BitchOnWheelz]

 

God forbid Sonja uses a regular old towel to hold her ice pack. Nope, it has to be the French dish towel. She really is high maintenance and ridiculous.

 

I actually have the same "French" dish towel in red and it came from Target.

 

She thinks her 'antics' are cute, but they come off as contrived, desperate and annoying.

 

The whole, 'cutting Veevs out of the intro as a punishment' never sit right with me.  I think it was Bravo's way of titillating the viewers.

 

Aviva has an intro, but Luann doesn't.  Right???

[Almost 3000]

I think Aviva bringing an extra leg makes more sense. For all her talk about her missing limb, she's really not that comfortable being an amputee. The Boston bombing victim was more comfortable with her amputation than Aviva has ever shown us to be. Aviva has gone out of her way to show us that her amputation defines her. With most amputees you would never notice their prosthesis or forget they had one, because they wouldn't even think about it themselves.

I thought she brought her spare too. That brown shoe was the same one the leg was wearing another time and it seemed odd that she would wear the same shoes 2 times. It was just wonky...

[ryebread]

I don't find shapewear and plastic surgery to be anywhere near the same realm.  I think shapewear is like makeup, it's not like carving your face up.  Obviously, all the ladies care about their appearance and do what they can to make themselves look nice, like wearing make up, working out, getting blowouts, etc...This is not the same as surgically altering your appearance IMO. 

Of course I agree it's not the same.  However, whether it's cosmetic surgery or skweez-ing the excess under a 3 panel layer of a tortureous mix of latex/spandex, you hopefully do it for your own satisfaction and not for anyone else's approval.  If they do it for any other reason than that, that's on them.  Not me. 

That said, I reserve my right to snark on any of them for any reason. I don't doubt any of them would refrain from the same.  Carol has already told me that as a non-working woman that I don't have much to offer so why would she stop at my ass which is less perfect than hers?  She's shown me she wouldn't.  I imagine much similar cackling has been done by those hens on that sofa of hers.

[zoeysmom]

I don't know. Going under the knife to "fix your face" is worlds apart from wearing a garment that is meant to give smooth lines under a top or a dress. Heather isn't selling waist-training corsets or advocating for women to get Dita Von Teese's waistline after all.

 

On to my next favorite RHONYCer: Carole Radziwill. As others have noted, her blog didn't disappoint.

 

 

 

I say bravo to Carole once again for being the one to return Aviva's leg to her. In the face of Aviva's total attempts to be dramatic (complete with a segue that she had to force), Carole moved passed that and showed herself to be a decent person. 

Why does Carole disparage the doctor who made the diagnosis?  He is a highly regarded pulmonologist who happens to have patients that are rich and famous.  I doubt his other patients go to him because he is known for writing  a note to get a reality stars out of contractual obligations.  Carole may have experienced some disappointments with the medical field during her husband's terminal cancer but she really needs to stop practicing medicine.  For someone who had the hissy fit of the century over someone questioning her writing credentials what is she doing the same to this physician's reputation?  And yes this doctor's name has been mentioned in connection with the show.

 

So I find myself thinking once again Carole-retract the fangs and stop lashing out and everyone associated with Aviva.  For an alleged war correspondent she should know a little about collateral damage.

[shoegal]

I think the leg Aviva threw as the leg she was wearing, unless she carried in another bag, I don't believe the one she was shown carrying in was large enough to contain the leg.  She was shown carrying in large, gray handbag that apparently was carrying XRays, prescriptions, medical files and business cards, but it wasn't large enough for a leg.  I remember when she carried in a spare leg to get a pedicure with Sonja last season, the bag she carried it was so large that Sonja mentioned it looked like a guitar case.  I believe Aviva is a tall woman, that leg is probably 2 feet long, plus the high heel?  No way it would fit in the bag she was shown carrying without sticking up out of the top. 

Of course I agree it's not the same.  However, whether it's cosmetic surgery or skweez-ing the excess under a 3 panel layer of a tortureous mix of latex/spandex, you hopefully do it for your own satisfaction and not for anyone else's approval.  If they do it for any other reason than that, that's on them.  Not me. 

That said, I reserve my right to snark on any of them for any reason. I don't doubt any of them would refrain from the same.  Carol has already told me that as a non-working woman that I don't have much to offer so why would she stop at my ass which is less perfect than hers?  She's shown me she wouldn't.  I imagine much similar cackling has been done by those hens on that sofa of hers.

 

I haven't seen Carole make any comments about anyone having a less than perfect physical appearance, so she has shown me that she wouldn't be snarking on someone else's not perfect ass.  As to what can be imagined, well, that's a whole other issue.  A lot of things can be imagined. 

Edited July 24, 2014 by shoegal

[ryebread]

For someone who had the hissy fit of the century over someone questioning her writing credentials what is she doing the same to this physician's reputation?  And yes this doctor's name has been mentioned in connection with the show.

 

So I find myself thinking once again Carole-retract the fangs and stop lashing out and everyone associated with Aviva.  For an alleged war correspondent she should know a little about collateral damage.

Ding ding ding!

 

Personally, the second I read that Carole took the card I thought she did so in order to make an appointment, put on her dark sunglasses and a scarf again and go all Mata Hari on the good doctor's ass.  To get the goods on Aviva, once and for all. 

 

I'm also in the camp that Aviva did not take an extra leg.  If it was an extra, production put it under there. 

As to what can be imagined, well, that's a whole other issue.  A lot of things can be imagined. 

As she and the others have so perfectly illustrated in their treatment of Aviva.

 

I guess Carol's early statement about SAHMs or non-working women or however she phrased it was so awful that it soured me on her for life.  I can own that.  That's the crux of my dislike and distrust for her.  That, and her feet on the dashboard. LOL

[ghoulina]

I actually have the same "French" dish towel in red and it came from Target.

 

This just made my day. 

 

Kind of like how I imagine her yacht that Puff Daddy (or is P Diddy? P Lion? Lion Diddy? I can't keep up with these name changes) likes to use is really a rowboat with a boombox playing his songs. 

[shoegal]

I guess Carol's early statement about SAHMs or non-working women or however she phrased it was so awful that it soured me on her for life.  I can own that.  That's the crux of my dislike and distrust for her.  That, and her feet on the dashboard. LOL

 

I am really turned off by the whole mommy wars thing, but I took this as a statement to Aviva that she's never worked or had a career that she cared about, perhaps it was inartfully phrased, which happens when you are pissed off at someone, but I don't believe that what she said is indicative of Carole's opinion of SAHM's.  MMV obviously.

[BitchOnWheelz]

 

Well, at least the Moaner isn't wearing yet another '80's blue satin dress at the party (she's wearing one in her TH's tho).

Ramona's style is always stuck in the late 80s/early 90s with her satin dresses, dated hair and matching jewelry sets.  She could also use some dental work.  Her crooked teeth age her.

[ryebread]

I am really turned off by the whole mommy wars thing, but I took this as a statement to Aviva that she's never worked or had a career that she cared about, perhaps it was inartfully phrased, which happens when you are pissed off at someone, but I don't believe that what she said is indicative of Carole's opinion of SAHM's.  MMV obviously.

But how does Carole KNOW that Aviva has never worked or had a career she cared about?  See, it's just that kind of all-knowingness, presumptuousness - in her blogs, on my tv - that irritate me about her AND Heather.  Kristen does it, too, but she's so wrapped up with getting accepted by the cool kids that I'm not certain she knows what she's talking about.

 

Aviva seems like she's involved in many working-type activities outside her home that she greatly cares about.  Just because she's not being paid for them doesn't make them or her any less. 

She could also use some dental work.  Her crooked teeth age her.

Ruh roh.  Gurl, you in danger now.

 

I thought Ramona looked beautiful (on the outside) on WWHL.  There is a remarkable example of what a good haircut can do for you. Remember S1?

[ScoobieDoobs]

Yes.  In a second.  I know this because I watched some YouTube videos.  You know, for research.  And the prothesis I saw being removed were not as high tech as Aviva's are.  (And my husband thinks the Housewives have zero educational value.,,)

 

Interesting.  Now I'm thinkin' what may have happened was Veevs had already detached the leg under the table -- maybe a few minutes before she threw it, so she had it ready to be thrown.

 

What makes you think that Carolyn Bessette Kennedy would have cut her hair? I don't understand why so many women want to cut their hair short. If you ask most men, they say don't. They prefer women of all ages with longer hair.

 

Well, as I said, Carolyn was a very stylish gal.  I just don't think she woulda kept the exact same hair she had in 1998.  And btw, I don't like hair rules, BUT some women keep long hair way past the age it looks good on them.  And there are various lengths which are flattering.  Longer hair can look OK on some women, regardless of age, but it's not for everyone.  I said Carole should go shorter NOT necessarily short.

Edited July 24, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[shoegal]

But how does Carole KNOW that Aviva has never worked or had a career she cared about?  See, it's just that kind of all-knowingness, presumptuousness - in her blogs, on my tv - that irritate me about her AND Heather.  Kristen does it, too, but she's so wrapped up with getting accepted by the cool kids that I'm not certain she knows what she's talking about.

 

Aviva seems like she's involved in many working-type activities outside her home that she greatly cares about.  Just because she's not being paid for them doesn't make them or her any less. 

 

I suspect that she knows like I know that Aviva has never worked...her bio is on Bravo (plus, Carole and Heather actually know Aviva, so I suspect they actually know the same way that I know things about my friends/acquaintances, because they've told me). 

 

Aviva went to Vassar, yes.  She got a Masters Degree in French (??) yes, she went to law school, yes.  Then she...married Harry, had a child and has done what?  Not worked and been supported by her husband(s).  She may do "work like activities" on a charity/volunteer basis, but that's not the same as having a career.  It's just not.  Carole writes to pay her bills, the whole needing to get paid for it actually does make a difference. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

Aviva seems like she's involved in many working-type activities outside her home that she greatly cares about.  Just because she's not being paid for them doesn't make them or her any less.

 

My hunch is there is an actual Aviva we didn't get to know much or at all.  We saw charitable Aviva.  She seems nice.  Moaner said on WWHL she did lunch with her a few weeks ago & she likes her & she's very different than she is on camera.  Hmmm.  Most of the Aviva we saw on the show was a hateful screaming shrew, so it's difficult not to see her in just that way.  Could it be misleading?

[phoenix780]

I'm way late to the party here, which sucks.  But- this episode should have been midway through the season, not the finale.  Eliminating some of Montana or something.  I really want to see what happened after, but I suppose they'll talk about it at the reunion (a multi-part reunion for this season? really?). 

 

My favorite part was probably Aviva explaining that her acid reflux causes asthma, because that doesn't close the gap and explain why asthma would keep her out of Montana.  Apparently it's not being triggered by environment, right?  So I'm not sure why the environment was relevant.

 

Still- good for her for bringing some crazy to what was designed to be a crazy party.  I can't believe Sonja couldn't think of a better reason to have one.

[breezy424]

My hunch is there is an actual Aviva we didn't get to know much or at all.  We saw charitable Aviva.  She seems nice.  Moaner said on WWHL she did lunch with her a few weeks ago & she likes her & she's very different than she is on camera.  Hmmm.  Most of the Aviva we saw on the show was a hateful screaming shrew, so it's difficult not to see her in just that way.  Could it be misleading?

Good point and maybe this is why the women show little sympathy for her on the show.  They know it's all an act and she 'plays' all of them.

 

When Aviva threw the leg, I was thinking was it Aviva or her father who came up with this?  I can picture him telling Aviva that it would be great TV.  She would be forever remembered in the world of reality TV.  He's a worse famewhore than she.

[motorcitymom65]

I thought she brought her spare too. That brown shoe was the same one the leg was wearing another time and it seemed odd that she would wear the same shoes 2 times. It was just wonky...

My opinion is that she didn't bring a spare. It seems very important to her to make it clear that she didn't plan this (she has already done several interviews where she makes this silly claim), and if she had her spare with her, she couldn't make this claim.  Also, there is the part about her asking Harry to carry her out if she needed him too. I don't think she would ask that if she had a spare with her.

[Almost 3000]

Good point and maybe this is why the women show little sympathy for her on the show.  They know it's all an act and she 'plays' all of them.

 

When Aviva threw the leg, I was thinking was it Aviva or her father who came up with this?  I can picture him telling Aviva that it would be great TV.  She would be forever remembered in the world of reality TV.  He's a worse famewhore than she.

I think Jill Zarin had her grubby mitts on this one along with bookgate. Jill and Aviva are behind the scene buddies and that colors how I view Aviva's antics. 

[aradia22]

 

I am really turned off by the whole mommy wars thing, but I took this as a statement to Aviva that she's never worked or had a career that she cared about, perhaps it was inartfully phrased, which happens when you are pissed off at someone, but I don't believe that what she said is indicative of Carole's opinion of SAHM's.  MMV obviously.

Yeah but that was around the same time she was going on and on about having nothing in her life but work because everyone knows without a husband/significant other or child, a woman's life is meaningless. Basically, I've come to the conclusion that Carole either doesn't think before she opens her mouth (thus explaining all the inconsistencies) or her true feelings just creep in to reveal how her facade is a lie. In an attempt to be oh so witty and clever she doesn't realize that she's letting the cat out of the bag and revealing the awfulness within. Or maybe she is self-aware and either doesn't think we'll care or doesn't see the things she says as problematic because how could we even notice when we're all blinded by her Carrie Bradshaw fabulousness? Gag.

[Almost 3000]

My opinion is that she didn't bring a spare. It seems very important to her to make it clear that she didn't plan this (she has already done several interviews where she makes this silly claim), and if she had her spare with her, she couldn't make this claim.  Also, there is the part about her asking Harry to carry her out if she needed him too. I don't think she would ask that if she had a spare with her.

Your probably right but that brown shoe just seemed suspect to me and seemed to be making a second appearance on a show where the ladies pride themselves on not wearing the same thing multiple times.

[Grneyedldy]

RedHeadZombie, I agree with everything you said about Sonja. <snip>

She has mostly made her living on her back, let's get real. <snip>

Yeah and I'm going to go out on a limb (keeping with the theme of the episode) and say that I bet she's spent a lot of time on her knees too.

What she should do is market some designer knee pads. I bet Carole would buy a pair. And if Kristen wants any more jewelry, she might also pop for a pair. I bet Josh would even come home early.

[shoegal]

Yeah but that was around the same time she was going on and on about having nothing in her life but work because everyone knows without a husband/significant other or child, a woman's life is meaningless. Basically, I've come to the conclusion that Carole either doesn't think before she opens her mouth (thus explaining all the inconsistencies) or her true feelings just creep in to reveal how her facade is a lie. In an attempt to be oh so witty and clever she doesn't realize that she's letting the cat out of the bag and revealing the awfulness within. Or maybe she is self-aware and either doesn't think we'll care or doesn't see the things she says as problematic because how could we even notice when we're all blinded by her Carrie Bradshaw fabulousness? Gag.

 

I believe that what Carole was saying is that her career was all she has left.  She had a husband, he died.  Her closest friends died.  I don't believe that Carole feels her life is meaningless without a husband and kids (she doesn't seem to want kids, and I'm sure if she wanted another husband that bad, she could find one if she's not picky) and she certainly hasn't said or acted as if her life is meaningless without a husband and children.  I do believe she is very much invested in and defines herself by her work (as many people do) and I believe Carole still feels very much alone, which is understandable if the most important people in your life, the people you typically define yourself by, are all dead.  Carole has friends, yes, but that doesn't make up for the loss that she suffered.  I don't see inconsistencies from Carole, but I do think that who she is now has to be viewed in the context of her backstory, which not every one knows. 

[Grneyedldy]

My opinion is that she didn't bring a spare. It seems very important to her to make it clear that she didn't plan this (she has already done several interviews where she makes this silly claim), and if she had her spare with her, she couldn't make this claim.  Also, there is the part about her asking Harry to carry her out if she needed him too. I don't think she would ask that if she had a spare with her.

  

Your probably right but that brown shoe just seemed suspect to me and seemed to be making a second appearance on a show where the ladies pride themselves on not wearing the same thing multiple times.

I don't remember seeing the bag Aviva was carrying, but I'm leaning towards it not being an extra leg after all. I guess that would make it hard to believe it was spontaneous.

[shoegal]

Your probably right but that brown shoe just seemed suspect to me and seemed to be making a second appearance on a show where the ladies pride themselves on not wearing the same thing multiple times.

 

Last season, Aviva had a pair of Christian Louboutin wedges that she wore constantly (it seems she finally retired them, thank goodness, as they were beat to shit), so it doesn't surprise me that the footwear has made multiple appearances.  In fact, the new Jimmy Choo's that we saw on the leg are very similar to the color/style of the worn to death Louboutins from last season, so I am going to venture to say that Aviva is sort of like me in that she has a style of shoes that she likes and she wears the hell out of them. 

[Almost 3000]

Thanks @shoegal ~ The mystery (that I created in my own head) of the brown shoes is solved!

[ryebread]

Aviva went to Vassar, yes.  She got a Masters Degree in French (??) yes, she went to law school, yes.  Then she...married Harry, had a child and has done what?  Not worked and been supported by her husband(s).  She may do "work like activities" on a charity/volunteer basis, but that's not the same as having a career.  It's just not.  Carole writes to pay her bills, the whole needing to get paid for it actually does make a difference. 

 

I agree that there is a world of difference between having to work for a pay check and not.  But Carole said to Aviva, "You're nothing" because she didn't work outside the home.  THAT'S what has stuck in my craw. That, the feet and her asking George if he'd given anybody any more squirting orgasms and then writing how disgusting he is because that's the way the majority opinion was trending. There's one example of an inconsistency by Carole.

Basically, I've come to the conclusion that Carole either doesn't think before she opens her mouth (thus explaining all the inconsistencies) or her true feelings just creep in to reveal how her facade is a lie. In an attempt to be oh so witty and clever she doesn't realize that she's letting the cat out of the bag and revealing the awfulness within.

This.  This is why you never really hear Carole say anything very deep or witty on video UNLESS it's in her TH.  I believe it's also why she's usually the last to submit her blog entries after an epi:   She has to read what everyone else has written and needs time to polish and add humor and wit to her writing.  Someone upthread said she is a great writer.  I disagree.  She might be a good writer in that she's written one bestselling book (never saw or heard any of her ABC stuff) but I think some of the writers HERE are much better at the rat-a-tat-tat, off the cuff, immediate thought and humor.  Carole doesn't strike me as particularly scintillating on screen in 'real' time.

Edited July 24, 2014 by ryebread

[featherhead]

I just went over to Bravo and read Sonja's blog.  I don't think her "poop pills" are working, cause she is full of shit!

A couple of blogs ago she went on about how she and LuAnn are aquaintances, now she's going on about what good friends they are.  It reads pretty much like her speech at the party - very disjointed and scattered.  She did reveal that she gave her physic $150,000 worth of dental work.  Bwahaha, this from someone that can't afford hot water?  I hope they ream her at the reunion.

 

Team Sonja is no less than 35 people. These people are much more than just their job titles. Everyone is a star in their own right with unlimited horizons and no limitations set by their occupation of the moment. I can't think of any better place than my home away from home, Le Cirque, which I have been going to since I was a young model and student at FIT. There is a wonderful documentary on Sirio Maccioni, if you are interested (The Proprietor). He is one of my mentors.

I'll take a moment mention some of the peeps on the team. People keep asking for my poop pills and I get those from Dr. Erika Schwartz, she is an amazing HRT Doctor. That's also one of the reasons why I have such great skin. I also go to Luzineti at Dr. Sadick's for facials -- and as you know Satoko from Frederick Fekkai. I am very grateful to Dr. Nicholas Toscano and Dr. Marc Lazare, who not only have helped me with my funny teeth mishaps, but have given my loyal psychic of over 20 years Roberta Tavasolli over $150,000 in dental implants pro bono. She is a very good person and she helps so many get through difficult times when they feel there is no hope

 

My bad - Sonja said her dentist gave the physic free tooths.  She still agravates me and maybe the Physic didn't want anyone to know that.

Edited July 24, 2014 by featherhead

[motorcitymom65]

I suspect that she knows like I know that Aviva has never worked...her bio is on Bravo (plus, Carole and Heather actually know Aviva, so I suspect they actually know the same way that I know things about my friends/acquaintances, because they've told me). 

 

Aviva went to Vassar, yes.  She got a Masters Degree in French (??) yes, she went to law school, yes.  Then she...married Harry, had a child and has done what?  Not worked and been supported by her husband(s).  She may do "work like activities" on a charity/volunteer basis, but that's not the same as having a career.  It's just not.  Carole writes to pay her bills, the whole needing to get paid for it actually does make a difference. 

I don't think there is any mystery about Aviva and her work history. She talked on the first episode about her education, and then raising her kids. If there were anything going on in the middle, I would find it strange that she left that out.

 

I was never sure why folks jumped on the assumption that Carole was disparaging SAHM's. I never thought that was the issue. I think it is more about the fact that before she had kids, Aviva didn't really do anything. She is 44 and Harrison, who I believe is her oldest son, is 11.  So she was in her early 30's when she had him. She had bothered to get a very good education, but what did she do after that? It sounds like she spent 5 or so years not really doing much of anything, and certainly with an education like she received, she could have worked had she wanted to.  This is something that has always been fascinating to me - a woman who has an eduction, doesn't have any children, and still doesn't get a job. What are they doing all day long? Maybe Aviva was steeped in charity work, but maybe she wasn't. I always thought the point that Carole was making was that Aviva was a very capable gal, but yet she hadn't felt the pull of passion for a career and thus didn't understand what it was all about. She had zero understanding of how Carole felt about having her career questioned, because she had never had a career. I think this is a perfectly logical conclusion for someone to reach. 

[izabella]

She did reveal that she gave her physic $150,000 worth of dental work.  Bwahaha, this from someone that can't afford hot water?  I hope they ream her at the reunion.

 

This from someone who can't afford her own dental work - Sonja had a tooth fall out on camera, and she's giving $150k to someone else for dental work?  More like $150 for a psychic "reading."  Delusional doesn't even begin to cover Sonja - liar and fraud, on the other hand, fits nicely.

She had zero understanding of how Carole felt about having her career questioned, because she had never had a career.

 

I think Carole was reacting to Aviva casting aspersions on her writing career, and spreading rumors that could hurt her career, which she depends on to pay the bills.  Someone who has never had to work to pay the bills and has always had someone else fully supporting her, isn't going to have the same perspective on the damage that rumors could cause to a person's career and might not consider the actual, financial ramifications.

[featherhead]

This from someone who can't afford her own dental work - Sonja had a tooth fall out on camera, and she's giving $150k to someone else for dental work?  More like $150 for a psychic "reading."  Delusional doesn't even begin to cover Sonja - liar and fraud, on the other hand, fits nicely.

 

I think Carole was reacting to Aviva casting aspersions on her writing career, and spreading rumors that could hurt her career, which she depends on to pay the bills.  Someone who has never had to work to pay the bills and has always had someone else fully supporting her, isn't going to have the same perspective on the damage that rumors could cause to a person's career and might not consider the actual, financial ramifications.

Sorry it was her denist that gave the free teeth, I misread it in all the crazyness.

[ryebread]

She had bothered to get a very good education, but what did she do after that? It sounds like she spent 5 or so years not really doing much of anything, and certainly with an education like she received, she could have worked had she wanted to.  This is something that has always been fascinating to me - a woman who has an eduction, doesn't have any children, and still doesn't get a job. What are they doing all day long? Maybe Aviva was steeped in charity work, but maybe she wasn't. I always thought the point that Carole was making was that Aviva was a very capable gal, but yet she hadn't felt the pull of passion for a career and thus didn't understand what it was all about.

I have a Masters.  After graduating I traveled for 8 years. It just sort of happened that way.  Didn't use my degree because I moved around a lot.  Moved back to my home town and got married almost right away. Again, shit happens.  Didn't work because my husband traveled for work and I wanted to be with him and he with me (Uh oh.  Shades of Veevs?) Love is grand.  Then I got pregnant.  Still no worky. Stayed home with my child until he was in 5th grade and THEN used my degree. For 5 measly years.  I retired because I LIKE not working.  I like volunteering.  Everybody has a story and a reason.  I don't think that makes me a nothing as Carole said. 

She had zero understanding of how Carole felt about having her career questioned, because she had never had a career.

As Carole had zero understanding of how Aviva felt about being questioned about her choice to stay home/not use her education in the way society says she should have.  And told she was 'nothing'.

 

Topic:  Aviva's shoe.  The shoe that fits her 'high heel' leg has to not only fit the height of the heel but the arch.  Every shoe with a 4 inch heel isn't going to have the same arch.  I think unless she had many different shoes custom made to fit her 'high heel' leg, she's limited in how many pairs of shoes she has.  Maybe our girl, Aviva is thrifty, too?

[shoegal]

I agree that there is a world of difference between having to work for a pay check and not.  But Carole said to Aviva, "You're nothing" because she didn't work outside the home.  THAT'S what has stuck in my craw. That, the feet and her asking George if he'd given anybody any more squirting orgasms and then writing how disgusting he is because that's the way the majority opinion was trending. There's one example of an inconsistency by Carole.

 

 

As I said, I think it was inartfully stated as Carole was pissed, but if you just take the "you're nothing" without any context or meaning (which Carole did say, 'what are you, you're nothing, you have no career' so clearly she meant it in a work/career context, not a is your life worth anything at all context) , then yeah, it's bad.  However, if you take it as I've had a career and had to work and support myself and you are talking shit about me when you have never had a job or career or even had to support yourself and have no idea what you are talking about then I agree with Carole.  I don't think she meant it as a commentary about women who stay at home and don't work, I do think she meant it in a very specific context specifically about Aviva.

 

Perhaps what Carole should have said instead of "you're nothing, you have no career" is simply "you have no profession". 

Edited July 24, 2014 by shoegal

[motorcitymom65]

I have a Masters.  After graduating I traveled for 8 years. It just sort of happened that way.  Didn't use my degree because I moved around a lot.  Moved back to my home town and got married almost right away. Again, shit happens.  Didn't work because my husband traveled for work and I wanted to be with him and he with me (Uh oh.  Shades of Veevs?) Love is grand.  Then I got pregnant.  Still no worky. Stayed home with my child until he was in 5th grade and THEN used my degree. For 5 measly years.  I retired because I LIKE not working.  I like volunteering.  Everybody has a story and a reason.  I don't think that makes me a nothing as Carole said. 

As Carole had zero understanding of how Aviva felt about being questioned about her choice to stay home/not use her education in the way society says she should have.  And told she was 'nothing'.

 

 

Wow, you have lived a very exciting life. I am jealous - no such excitement here.

 

I think you bring up good points.  I guess I tend to cut the gals (all of them) slack when they say things in the heat of the moment. Often it is human nature to try and hurt someone when you say things in this manner. I don't think it is necessarily a reflection of a persons character, although it certainly could be.

 

I know for instance that Carole was insulted about the whole "being 50" thing that Aviva said. It was rude, and it was mean, but I didn't see it as any major reflection on Aviva. I think she was angry and that she was reaching to say something that would inflict the most pain on someone who might be vulnerable in this particular area. To your point about society's expectations about what someone should be doing with their life, Aviva has probably heard them before. She has probably had to justify on more than one occasion why she is so highly educated when she didn't use any of her degrees in the traditional sense. Perhaps Carole is aware this is something that bothers her and she used it. Not to try and disparage all people in the same situation, but against this one person standing in front of her. Just as Aviva might have been aware that Carole is sensitive about aging and being alone (if she is).  

[ScoobieDoobs]

Maybe our girl, Aviva is thrifty, too?

 

She ain't my gal.  I still don't like the personality traits I've seen of her display.  She may be charitable & that's lovely, but I don't like her.  I did like her necklace she wore when she threw the leg.  Wonder if she'll be shopping Jillzy's new jewelry line tonite-

 

http://www.gemshopping.com/

[jaync]

 Last year it was the phobias, this year it's asthma and reflux. It's her way of getting attention, sympathy and a free pass (at least in her mind).

Exactly. As far as I'm concerned, the other ladies have every right to question and pass judgement on Aviva's fleeting ailments and phobias if she's going to continue to use them as a tool to fit her warped agenda. Especially given all the times Aviva has nastily berated the others in regards to everything from their livelihoods and lifestyles, to their mothering and behavior at events where she wasn't even present.

 

Last year, she couldn't go in an elevator without him, let alone go on vacations... Psychiatry does real wonders if she got over 30 years of fear during the two seasons... 

Right? I guess we're supposed to believe that Aviva's deathly fear of flying just vanished, and if that pesky asthma had not popped up, then she would've made the trip to Montana (where inhalers and acid reflux meds apparently aren't available).

 

Oh, and plus one for Carole for, in the midst of all that ridiculousness, picking up Aviva's prosthetic leg and giving it back to her.

Yeah, props to Carole for being twice the person Aviva is and doing that. Personally, I wouldn't have done it, because if Aviva doesn't give a shit about her prosthesis, then why should anybody else? It would've been hilarious if nobody retrieved it, leaving that loonfuck to fend for herself.

 

Sonja is a damn kook, but she was rockin' that tuxedo.