Envisioning What's Next: Speculation With Spoilers

[swanpride]

You can't trust the promos...especially not that they show something specifically from the next episode.

[Kromm]

21 minutes ago, swanpride said:

You can't trust the promos...especially not that they show something specifically from the next episode.

You can trust that we're going to have Roseanne/Family Ties and Modern Family at some point. I didn't specify it meant they were in the next episode (nor does the commercial). 

And even the few things in earlier commercials that weren't actually in the show (for example, Geraldine/Monica's dropped response about not knowing who she is) weren't in conflict with what actually happened, they just were supplemental. 

The ATVs will happen at some point.  I don't think that's the type of thing which could be a foiler. 

Vision at the barrier could be misleading admittedly. I mean it clearly happens, but could be a non event if it's simply rewound. 

My interpretation of the final shot as a possible Wanda/Vision fight is just a WAG. But one that actually makes sense, perhaps even MORE sense, if Vision is driven by nothing but part of Wanda's subconscious. Or... it's just them flying.  It's the facing pose that struck me. 

Again, I was never assuming this is next episode. If I had to guess, only the stuff in 80s clothes, the stuff with Monica in the hospital, and the voice over about inside intelligence are. Outside chance the ATV thing MIGHT be if it's just another failed penetration attempt. 

 

[Kate47]

Wanda and Vision both have powers with the Mind Stone as the source. I saw a clip in last week's teaser that looked like

Spoiler

Wanda looking into the yellow light of the mind stone.

We know that Vision wouldn't be who he is without the stone, so I'm speculating that she uses some of her essence to recreate it for him, or is somehow able to rebuild the stone with her powers.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Kate47
Possible spoiler, my bad!

[swanpride]

Wanda's power might be from the mind stone, but the colour of her power is red, like the reality stone. And Quicksilvers power was blue, like the space stone (which both makes sense in regard to the powers they actually had). I guess the stones are on some level connected with each other.

Imho the Hexagon is a hint to the infinity stone. I mean, who knows what destroying them in THIS reality created, or set free.

[arc]

On a partial rewatch of ep 3 (Now In Color), it stands out to me that Vision asked Agnes and Herb: "Remarkable day we're having, no? Did you lose power too?" And Agnes replied "Ugh, sure did!"

if, as everyone's speculating, Agnes is a witch, is that a hint for later because right now she's lost her powers?

[VCRTracking]

I'm all in if Marvel decides to make Wanda a villain. Elizabeth Olsen is so good at being scary.

[swanpride]

I am not opposed, but I don't want her to be a full fledged villain, more an antagonist who will eventually find her footing again.

[Kromm]

Wanda has literally pulled the heart out of an enemy. If she's going to do bad, it's probably going to be very bad. 

[paigow]

"Ralph" might be the missing FBI witness, but the absence of US Marshals is suspicious - unless WITSEC roles and responsibilities have changed. Even though a truly evil entity is controlling Wanda, this conflict will likely extend over the course of Dr. Strange 2 and Spider Man 3.

[swanpride]

It could be Agnes...just because Wu kept saying "he" doesn't mean that the witness is actually male. After all, he tries to keep an identity secret.

[readster]

14 minutes ago, swanpride said:

It could be Agnes...just because Wu kept saying "he" doesn't mean that the witness is actually male. After all, he tries to keep an identity secret.

Right, Jimmy hasn't come and said right out "who" and "why" this witness can be and why they ended up in Westport. He isn't coming clean about something. 

[johntfs]

22 minutes ago, readster said:

Right, Jimmy hasn't come and said right out "who" and "why" this witness can be and why they ended up in Westport. He isn't coming clean about something. 

I think it's much more that those questions are irrelevant right now.  If Herb used to whack people for the Mob, so what?  He's now a sitcom character in some kind of private universe that Wanda created.

As for why he (or she) is there, it seems to be SOP for at least shows/movies about witness protection to put said witness into small towns in the middle of nowhere.  Most of these guys come out of large, urban environments.  If they're put somewhere similar, there's a decent chance they'll either go back to there old criminal ways or get recognized by some other criminal.  The Jamaican Mafia probably does not have a branch in Westview, New Jersey.  Like that.

Now, granted that it's possible (even probable) that the witness might become relevant later.  Perhaps Wanda's control slips and he tries to shoot her or something.  For right now the people outside don't even think they have a way to communicate with Wanda to tell her about said witness.  A lot of things are going to depend on what Monica can tell them about the conditions inside the Wandaverse.

[swanpride]

...we have no idea what kind of witness that is. Not everyone in witness protection is a criminal.

[Jenniferbug]

1 hour ago, swanpride said:

It could be Agnes...just because Wu kept saying "he" doesn't mean that the witness is actually male. After all, he tries to keep an identity secret.

I don't think it can be Agnes because they had her picture up on the whiteboard but not identified. Woo would know who she was if she were his missing person. Since it hasn't been addressed up through the 70s episodes,  I assume he hasn't seen the missing person on screen yet.

[swanpride]

Yeah, but would Woo reveal the fact without reason?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, swanpride said:

Yeah, but would Woo reveal the fact without reason?

Why wouldn’t he when they are trying to identify everyone? Keeping the person at the same location once everything is in over would have already gone out the window.

Even if he did want to keep it a secret that person would still have a fake Westview identity for the other agents to find. If the witness was Agnes her Westview ID could be used without identifying her as the witness or her real name. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Guest

[swanpride]

Depends on why the person is in the witness protection program.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, swanpride said:

Depends on why the person is in the witness protection program.

They would still have a fake identity to be found. If Woo wanted to protect that person it would make more sense for him to make sure they are identified using the identity given to them by witness protection than to let everyone continue to search. Not being identified draws more attention. I think it has to be someone already identified or someone who hasn’t been seen yet. 

[Kromm]

I've just looked at a still from the last promo, and am now even more convinced eventually Wanda and whatever Vision now... is... fight each other. 

First, a slight aside. Watching viewer reaction videos of the episode on YouTube, many of them seemed to notice what I only did on rewatch. Vision, right before he sits down with Wanda at the end of Episode 4, can't really look her in the eyes anymore. Even if he's just some recreation of Vision, or even part of Wanda's mind, that's true.  

THEN in the sitcom ending on the couch, while Wanda is looking slightly DOWN at the TV we've been told they're going to watch, Vision is looking dead straight at the camera... at us.  It's as if, metaphorically, he's asking us "what am I supposed to do?"

Now back to the preview.  In the last part I've previously mentioned where Vision is flying in the living room, then Wanda, facing him, also starts flying, there's posing that looks like the beginning of a confrontation.

Well I just saw a still from right as that sequence starts (it's a thumbnail image on YouTube, so not easily replicated) that supports that even more.

Aside from her overall pose and body language, you can clearly see from Wanda's hands, before she lifts off the ground, that she's preparing to shoot her red energy at the person directly in front of her... Vision. It's only obvious in the paused still, because in the moving video her lifting off the ground is more what's drawing your attention.   I say "preparing" because clearly she may not actually shoot, but the hand positioning is obvious.  It's unmistakable.  And Vision is the only other person in that room.

EDIT:  Wait... lets see if this displays...  (note this is directly out of a preview video so within the rules)

 

Speculation time: It's also clear from the promo that Vision eventually visits the barrier. My guess is that there IS one thing more important to Wanda than preserving this illusion of Vision's life... these children. Probably even less real than Vision (at least at this point), they become her main priority.  I think Vision gets moved to the enemy column by her because he threatens that. Even in a scenario where not real, where he's only part of her mind... the apparent Superego to her id, that still could be true. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Kromm

[paigow]

Why did Woo not call Ant-Man? Can Wanda manipulate someone she cannot see?

All these sitcom references mixed in with "Monica" makes me wonder if Courtney Cox is in danger... then I return to "reality".... 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, paigow said:

Why did Woo not call Ant-Man? Can Wanda manipulate someone she cannot see?

 

What could Scott do? He’s probably busy picking up the pieces of his life. 

Whatever is happening is impacting people Wanda can’t see since the town has been wiped from the memories of those outside it. 

[Kromm]

You know, re-watching promos I just got reminded of the moment we got quite a while ago when Vision touches Agnes in the car.  I think we've been underestimating the importance of when she says "Am I Dead" because of the later moment when she says to Vision that he is.

Since I've now been speculating that maybe EVERYONE in that town other than Wanda is dead, that line is striking me different now {again referencing Herb maybe trying to say "dead" instead of the all too obvious "trapped").

Everyone in the town is dead.  Some calamity killed them all.  Wanda revived ALL of them, not just Vision.

That doesn't mean there isn't more going on. The Mephisto theories make even more sense this way.  Agnes is dead too (this actually jibes with various Agatha Harkness theories by the way, but I won't go into the comics except to state it does).  

I still think this leads to a fight between Wanda and Vision, as detailed above.  I just think that these people all just being enslaved townspeople isn't enough to make this truly shocking.  If they died, it's recent. Post-blip, since the US government isn't aware of it.  

[paigow]

26 minutes ago, Dani said:

What could Scott do? 

He can pass through the barrier undetected at sub-atomic size. Then he can observe the unedited reality and identify the true villain...

[arc]

Every superhero story has to deal with the fact that they don't just call in the heavy hitters and/or domain specialists right away. There was a recent Batman arc in the comics where his villains had basically completely taken over Gotham and let's face it, this would be like a couple minutes' work for Superman but that would make for an unsatisfying Batman story.

Also, depending on how on the ball California is, Scott might not even be taken off the dead/blipped rolls yet.

[Kromm]

8 minutes ago, paigow said:

He can pass through the barrier undetected at sub-atomic size. Then he can observe the unedited reality and identify the true villain...

Lets be clear that someone at the sub-atomic size can't observe the physical world, since even visible light doesn't function the same at that level.

So he'd have to grow.

The question would have to be if a person at, lets say... Ant-sized would be detected by a force that definitely knew instantly about a guy crawling through an underground tunnel.

Not saying it wouldn't work.  But clearly there's some automatic aspect to what's happening that isn't relying on direct physical observation of people or objects.

[Kromm]

Yet another of the ongoing new promos. This literally is the same as the last one with a second or two of new.  There's a bit in the middle where we see more with Agnes.  Previously we'd seen her "break" and ask if they need to do something again. Here we see Agnes LITERALLY repeat the same entrance and same line in different decades.

There's also a tiny bit at the end with a more elaborate reaction from Darcy than we'd seen before to the sitcom, with similar words to what we heard from her in Episode 4, but Woo's lead in is different. 

But also note the frame Marvel deliberately chose as the thumbnail. No way can you look at it and doubt Wanda is aiming AT Vision. There's another frame (not shown here) where she raises her hands above her head too... 

 

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, Kromm said:

Yet another of the ongoing new promos. This literally is the same as the last one with a second or two of new.  There's a bit in the middle where we see more with Agnes.  Previously we'd seen her "break" and ask if they need to do something again. Here we see Agnes LITERALLY repeat the same entrance and same line in different decades.

There's also a tiny bit at the end with a more elaborate reaction from Darcy than we'd seen before to the sitcom, with similar words to what we heard from her in Episode 4, but Woo's lead in is different. 

But also note the frame Marvel deliberately chose as the thumbnail. No way can you look at it and doubt Wanda is aiming AT Vision. There's another frame (not shown here) where she raises her hands above her head too... 

 

They are releasing so many clips that seem like big spoilers that I’m really thinking this is going to be way crazier than anyone is guessing. 

I’m really curious about that split second shot of Vision collapsing to his knees. It looks like he is outside the energy barrier. 

[Kel Varnsen]

Interesting the latest promo has a tag line about how life can be perfect if it is made "just for you". I wonder if that is a hint that someone else made this "perfect" world for Wanda.

[Morrigan2575]

Between 1:06-1:08. Is that Wanda coming through the barrier?

[Kromm]

2 hours ago, Dani said:

They are releasing so many clips that seem like big spoilers that I’m really thinking this is going to be way crazier than anyone is guessing. 

I’m really curious about that split second shot of Vision collapsing to his knees. It looks like he is outside the energy barrier. 

Vision appears to be outside the barrier, but note that in silhouette you can see it's the dent in the head version of him. He's being yanked BACK by his Cape. 

He has a clear conflict with Wanda to the point of it being a physical fight, at least if other shots can be taken at face value.  He asks rather pointedly what's outside the barrier. 

In other words, Wanda at some point isn't able to simply to Glitch him into obedience. He goes through the barrier and starts to die. He's yanked BACK by his Cape, presumably by her powers, before fully dying on the other side. I believe that last to be true because she's been withholding why she wants him to stay put. He knows she's lying, and eventually just trying to force him to stay put, but not why. He discovers why by piercing the barrier. 

9 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Between 1:06-1:08. Is that Wanda coming through the barrier?

I believe it is.  It's separate from when Vision goes through, I bet, although possibly in the same episode. It's possibly linked to the military vehicles going through. My guess is it's her leveling a direct threat, an ultimatum, to SWORD as a result. 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Kromm

[johntfs]

On 1/31/2021 at 5:18 PM, Dani said:

What could Scott do? He’s probably busy picking up the pieces of his life. 

Whatever is happening is impacting people Wanda can’t see since the town has been wiped from the memories of those outside it. 

I think Woo should call Scott ask him for help with Wanda - after this is resolved.  I think Wanda turned the town into a sitcom because Wanda wants a normal, happy life with Vision - and thinks the sitcoms she watched as a kid in Sokovian are how normal people really act and life to some extent.

Woo should call Scott to help Wanda because Wanda desperately needs some real-world human connections in her life and Scott has that in spades.

[Morrigan2575]

8 hours ago, johntfs said:

Woo should call Scott to help Wanda because Wanda desperately needs some real-world human connections in her life and Scott has that in spades

Wouldn't Clint make more sense in that regard? They have a history since Ultron and even got the "moment" in Endgame.

[cambridgeguy]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Wouldn't Clint make more sense in that regard? They have a history since Ultron and even got the "moment" in Endgame.

He's absolutely the one who would make more sense, and he should be easy to track down since he's probably serving a life sentence for his murder spree during the 5 years between snaps.  I kid, he's too busy enjoying retirement on his farm.

And they really should at least try to call in an Avenger but we know they probably won't until (maybe) a cameo in the last episode.

[paigow]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Wouldn't Clint make more sense in that regard? They have a history since Ultron and even got the "moment" in Endgame.

And he has the magic arrow suction cup that breaks mind control

[Morrigan2575]

23 minutes ago, paigow said:

And he has the magic arrow suction cup that breaks mind control

It's been awhile since I watched Ultron, wasn't that like a stun or shock arrow? I thought he kind of gave her a zap (like Widow's stingers)?

In all seriousness that scene of Wanda and Clint in Ultron worked for me. I like to see him show up and talk her down (so to speak).

Back to the promo....I'm curious about that scene of Wanda flying through a military looking building. 

[Morrigan2575]

I don't know if this counts as a spoiler, it pertains to a deleted unfilmed Wanda/Visions scene from Endgame (copied over from a spoiler post in the #4 episode thread)

Spoiler

Paul Bettany mentioned in an interview that there was maybe going to be a post-credits scene in Endgame where Wanda took Vision's body from an Avengers' facility. Assuming that this did happen, and they just chose not to show it to us, makes pretty clear that we're dealing with Vision's actual body, either being animat

I think this might explain my question about the Wanda flying through a military building scene

[johntfs]

15 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Wouldn't Clint make more sense in that regard? They have a history since Ultron and even got the "moment" in Endgame.

Clint racked up a likely triple-digit body count via his mass-murder sprees in the five years between IW and Endgame.  As "stable influences go, I dunno about him."  Also Clint is married and Clint's wife probably wouldn't be super best pleased to have the pretty Sokovian girl who can control minds dropped in to live with them.

Plus, Wanda doesn't have to live with Scott.  She could live with the Pyms.  Though she'd have to get used to the disturbingly casual way they tend to alter the sizes of things.

[swanpride]

That just means that Clint understands her grief.

[tkc]

On 2/1/2021 at 5:01 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

Between 1:06-1:08. Is that Wanda coming through the barrier?

It does look like Wanda, and if you pause it just right, it looks like she has something in her right hand, as she walks toward the camera.

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by tkc

[paigow]

9 hours ago, johntfs said:

Clint's wife probably wouldn't be super best pleased to have the pretty Sokovian girl who can control minds dropped in to live with them.

If she was OK with "Aunt Natasha", nothing else would bother her...

[bethy]

10 hours ago, johntfs said:

Also Clint is married and Clint's wife probably wouldn't be super best pleased to have the pretty Sokovian girl who can control minds dropped in to live with them.

Or maybe Clint’s wife would see a broken, grieving girl who needs love and support to survive all the loss she’s experienced in her life. Plus she wasn’t jealous of Natasha and seemed to love and accept her as part of the family just fine.

[Kromm]

10 hours ago, tkc said:

It does look like Wanda, and if you pause it just right, it looks like she has something in her right hand, as she walks toward the camera.

 

I've already seen theories on this.  The one I read was that it was a shrunk down ATV that bum-rushed the barrier.  In a way I agreed before I saw this still so well captured.  Now seeing it I don't anymore.  I was wrong before.

To me it looks body-shaped.  Now seeing it I think it's the continuation of Vision almost dying again beyond the barrier and being held back by his cape.

This is moments after that, after Wanda has dragged him back across.  That's his (for the moment) dead body there.  One must presume he doesn't just pop back up and start walking around.  Wanda has to will it to happen.

[johntfs]

Maybe this, maybe that maybe a lot of thing.  Here's something fairly definite.  The below lists everyone  who attended Tony Stark's funeral at the close of Endgame.

https://screenrant.com/avengers-endgame-characters-tony-stark-iron-man-funeral/

Among those listed are Scott Lang and Hope along with her parents, Hank and Janet.

Also present are Hawkeye, his wife, his three children and Wanda.

I don't blame Scott or Hope for not reaching out to Wanda.  They barely know her.  Scott met her once prior at the airport fight.  Hope was with her in the final confrontation with Thanos but I don't they they ever actually spoke.

Clint and his family were there and so was Wanda.  Clint had the opportunity to reach out to her had he chosen to do so.  Either he did not choose to do that or he did and she said no.  Either way it seems like that ship has departed.  Plus, not for nothing, but Clint was one reason Wanda became a fugitive in the first place.  If he hadn't come to Avengers HQ, Wanda and Vision would have stayed out of the Civil War.  Also, Pietro died saving Clint's life.  Now, presumably Wanda doesn't (consciously) blame Clint for that, but it's still another piece of baggage in their relationship.

For me Scott Lang brings several positive aspects as a potential mentor/guide to Wanda.  First, he barely knows her.  So he won't assume that he does know her.  There's also far less baggage in terms of fraught pasts and the like between them.  Second, Scott was a criminal.  He went to prison.  He's experienced being estranged from normal society.  He understands the difficult work it takes to re-engage with normal society, so he can help Wanda do that.  Third and most important, Scott is probably the most normal/regular of the MCU heroes.  He has no intrinsic super-powers.  Whatever happened post-Snap aside, he's the only one I can think of that has anything like a normal job ("I (effectively) work for ADT/Systems Unlimited" vs "I used to kill people for SHIELD").  He's a person who found love, lost it (through prison/divorce) and then moved on from that loss to someone else (Hope).  Plus the Pyms seems like decent, empathetic people (Janet immediately moved to help Ghost, who had just tried to murder her). 

[FnkyChkn34]

WandaVision is taking place within 3 weeks of the final battle at the end of Endgame, right?  Presumably, Tony's funeral was not immediately following that battle the next day.  So WandaVision could be happening within mere days of Tony's funeral.  Therefore, from my calculation, Clint hasn't even had a chance to console or be there for Wanda because there simply hasn't been enough time. Same with Scott, who returned to San Francisco anyway.  

My guess, which I mentioned in a different thread, is that the star cameo appearance will be Jeremy Renner.  He just makes the most sense to me.

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

My guess, which I mentioned in a different thread, is that the star cameo appearance will be Jeremy Renner.  He just makes the most sense to me.

My guess is it will be Dr. Strange. We know Wanda will be in his movie, and had it not been for the pandemic Dr. Stange 2 would be coming out in 3 months.

[Kromm]

Re: the cameo

If they're being "realistic":

Hawkeye

Dr. Strange

If they're being aggressive:

Wolverine 

Charles Xavier

Deadpool 

Magneto (in other words, her FATHER in an altered reality) 

If they're being really out there:

Some form of Tony Stark

If we're confusing a perfectly logical guest appearance with something more:

Pietro 

Unlikely: 

I'd say Steve Rogers. The timing just doesn't work out. 

[paigow]

24 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

My guess is it will be Dr. Strange.

Agreed. But would like to add Multiverse Spider-Man as a longshot. It makes more sense than Hawkeye - his spinoff is due in 2022.

ETA: Alt!Magneto dropping the Darth Vader line on Wanda would really push her over the edge...

Edited February 3, 2021 by paigow

[Morrigan2575]

I'd love to see Pietro. I can't imagine any of the X Characters would show up. That would lock MCU into Fastbender as Magneto

[Sakura12]

Aren't they saying the cameo will rival the Mandalorian one. Would Hawkeye really do that? 

I think having X-Men's Quicksilver showing up would do that. Dr. Strange or even Captain Marvel. Having Falcon or Bucky or Hawkeye wouldn't be much of a surprise since they are in the other shows coming out. 

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Aren't they saying the cameo will rival the Mandalorian one. Would Hawkeye really do that? 

I think having X-Men's Quicksilver showing up would do that. Dr. Strange or even Captain Marvel. Having Falcon or Bucky or Hawkeye wouldn't be much of a surprise since they are in the other shows coming out. 

 

Yes. Bettany also talked about a top secret appearance by an actor he’s wanted to work with for years. Assuming he’s talking about the same actor as Olsen it rules out a lot of characters. 

Olsen also said that the secret hadn’t gotten out and X-Men’s Quicksilver has been rumored for awhile. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Guest