S36.E01: License To Killer Kam

[peachmangosteen]

Quote

Thirty elite agents learn that they will be battling against one another in a twisty, spy-themed season, with the hopes of earning their share of a $1,000,000 prize. former champions find themselves in danger, as a cutthroat plan emerges against them.

Airs December 9th.

[AntFTW]

Watching Wes getting hit in the face was the most fun I've had since March. I saw it in the trailer multiple times and cracked up. I saw it in the episode and cried. It was even funnier the second time I watched that part of the episode.

[Eolivet]

Has anyone producing this show ever watched a spy movie in their life? How does winning a challenge make you a "double agent?" You say that word, but I don't think, etc.

It's even more interesting that as Big Brother takes over more of the show, the show gets more like Big Brother, with the voting in secret. However, I give that "we know who voted for who" twist to last maybe another week before people start burning votes and hiding their alliances.

I wish that every last reality show this year didn't feature an obnoxious group of newschoolers who ran the game, though. I'm over it. Let the oldschoolers foil their plans at least once. Maybe this is one group of oldschoolers who won't be led like lambs to the slaughter, and one newschooler alliance that will implode on itself.

But: 2020, so I don't hold out great hope.

[Racj82]

12 hours ago, Eolivet said:

Has anyone producing this show ever watched a spy movie in their life? How does winning a challenge make you a "double agent?" You say that word, but I don't think, etc.

It's even more interesting that as Big Brother takes over more of the show, the show gets more like Big Brother, with the voting in secret. However, I give that "we know who voted for who" twist to last maybe another week before people start burning votes and hiding their alliances.

I wish that every last reality show this year didn't feature an obnoxious group of newschoolers who ran the game, though. I'm over it. Let the oldschoolers foil their plans at least once. Maybe this is one group of oldschoolers who won't be led like lambs to the slaughter, and one newschooler alliance that will implode on itself.

But: 2020, so I don't hold out great hope.

So you want the people who have been running this show for years to....keep running the show with nothing changing.

That's sounds entertaining.

This is what new schoolers should always be doing instead of waiting to get picked off one by one. This would not be an issue the vets stopped making it a rookie vs vets thing at the beginning of every single season. Fight back. Fuck it. It's not even a new vs old school because people like Leroy and Kam are leading the charge. I don't blame them. 

I've also always been for targeting people who already made their money. Get those people out. They already won.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Racj82

[Lantern7]

Let it be known that the year 2020 has thrown everything out of whack. I watched the penultimate episode of The Amazing Race, "live," and the end results were dogshit. Utter dogshit. Then I play this episode on DVR, and I was entertained.

Of course, a lot of my happiness came from 1. Ashley getting bounced out first (again), 2. Natalie being the one to do it (so, basically: Survivor champion > two-time Challenge champion) and 3. CT and Wes got to stay in the ,game. If #2 and #3 go wrong, I start punching shit. Well, not really, but I would've been REALLY frustrated.

Granted, there are still a lot of headaches left in the game. And the format might sour quickly. And TJ's title is "Handler," like he's a fucking spymaster all of a sudden. And Nicole has teamed up with Devin, and I really want her not to say or do something stupid. Finally, Kam is probably going to bitch 24/7 about how CT didn't pick her, and that shit will get old quickly. I get her being upset, but it's already annoying.

First mission was fun. You want to get things off on a great note AND you want to show the newcomers when the series is about? Have them wrestle for a stick so they can set off a bomb. Just two big piles of bodies, and that was awesome before CT accidentally whacked Wes in the face with someone else's sneaker. While "This Might Be Aneesa's Season" as an arc might drag, it was fun to see her win. Fessy? Meh. Sadly, we also wound up with some guys praying that she didn't pick them, and that must have hurt. Darrell interviews that he'd be ready to go with her. Where was that attitude in The Gauntlet, where he dropped off his bags, then immediately started scheming with Rachel about how to get Sarah out of the game?

Aneesa's win should have given her one free shot at Josh's stupid face, with zero repercussions, given how he slagged her last season.

The "Crater" was great . . . though if Natalie had lost, she would have been gone out first in three separate major reality franchises. Also, Ashley would've been bitching everyone out for being a snake, even though SHE'S WEARING SNAKES AS EARRINGS. Buh-Bye, Smashley!

ETA: I finish posting about TAR, I turn on this episode, and Cory immediately gets a dig in on Josh. I really needed that.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Lantern7

[Eolivet]

10 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

So you want the people who have been running this show for years to....keep running the show with nothing changing.

That's sounds entertaining.

I've watched newschoolers gang up on oldschoolers in Survivor and Big Brother within a few months of each other, so yeah, I'm kind of over it. I'd even settle for Leroy/Kam to realize the Josh/Kaycee/Fessy/Amber core alliance is going to turn on them, and stab them in the back first. I'm over newschooler mega-alliances waltzing to the end simply because they build them too big to fail and they're all literally best friends so they don't turn on each other. I would give my eye teeth to see one of these newschooler alliances stab each other in the back. Play to win. Not "get out all the big players, and then initiate a pre-determined suballiance pecking order."

Mega-alliances suck the joy out of reality TV, as nobody thinks for themselves. It's all for the "alliance." Most recently Big Brother, but Survivor had overtones of it in the last couple seasons, too.

So yeah, I'd love to see The Challenge break out of that mold. I'd give anything to see a newschooler "we're all besties" alliance implode, even if it means the people who run this show for years keep running it. Maybe it would force the newer people to change up their strategy again, and that might be something worth watching.

[TiffanyNichelle]

Bye bye Ashley!!

Sure it was purely revenge by Kam and yeah it totally backfired but I loved that Ashley and CT were nominated first. I like CT but I liked more that for once the rookies (and the rest) said hell no, we aren't going to let the super vets and winners make us put the rookies in first all the time. It's about time things get shook up and you know what, CT was playing a scared ass game trying to intimidate people when they were in the group. I liked that Aneesa didn't waste her time being loyal to people like Wes who would bitch and complain about "not wanting to run a final" with her. Look out for yourself, Aneesa.

Wes getting hit in the face with that shoe was exactly what I needed tonight. I needed that laugh so much.

Why would you not pick Lolo Jones as your partner first? Also her partner is a major cutie so I hope he sticks around.

I think I saw Josh twice and both times I said "shut up Josh."

[Racj82]

21 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

I've watched newschoolers gang up on oldschoolers in Survivor and Big Brother within a few months of each other, so yeah, I'm kind of over it. I'd even settle for Leroy/Kam to realize the Josh/Kaycee/Fessy/Amber core alliance is going to turn on them, and stab them in the back first. I'm over newschooler mega-alliances waltzing to the end simply because they build them too big to fail and they're all literally best friends so they don't turn on each other. I would give my eye teeth to see one of these newschooler alliances stab each other in the back. Play to win. Not "get out all the big players, and then initiate a pre-determined suballiance pecking order."

Mega-alliances suck the joy out of reality TV, as nobody thinks for themselves. It's all for the "alliance." Most recently Big Brother, but Survivor had overtones of it in the last couple seasons, too.

So yeah, I'd love to see The Challenge break out of that mold. I'd give anything to see a newschooler "we're all besties" alliance implode, even if it means the people who run this show for years keep running it. Maybe it would force the newer people to change up their strategy again, and that might be something worth watching.

I understand your feelings but for me the issue isn't really new vs old school. It's more about reality show alliances being played out in general. 

I've been binging the challenge while I've got cbs all access and the alliance running over others until the end narrative is never fun long term. Regardless of who is doing it IMO.

But, especially with the twists, I don't see a mega alliance thing happening here or a whole group of new schoolers skating towards the end.

For a long time it used to be Johnny B and his people always flying through virtually unscathed because the new schoolers feared the numbers and the control the vets had.

At the very least, I appreciate people coming in and not playing scared. 

[aghst]

I didn't like it when the vets always preyed on rookies but not really feeling the BB alliance either.

Actually the fact that CT dissed Kam made the BB alliance even stronger as she paired with Josh, one of the BB alliance of 4, which also has a deal with Cory and Nelson.  So they potentially have locked up a lot of votes.  

If the pairs don't change up that much, then the BB alliance will just keep picking off others.  And in the US vs. the World season, the elimination winners didn't change teams until towards the end so it seems likely that they won't flip around too much.

The casting of course made this BB alliance dominance possible.  I can understand wanting to get in new blood, younger cast members who fit the MTV target demographics better and CT and Wes are on the old side.

But the BB alliance members are not really that telegenic or charismatic either.  A couple of them are strong and/or athletic but beyond numbers, I don't know that their political game is that strong.

I liked the 10 Skulls limit but I don't necessarily like that you have to defend it and hang on to it.  That certainly guarantees that the strongest players are able to win one or more eliminations, to win the Skull and to defend it.  Or you have a big enough alliance to protect you from going in more than once and you can pretty much determine when to go in and against whom.

I liked the secret vote at first but it was done mostly for the drama of showing who voted for whom and then the Double Agents getting to see the votes.  But it doesn't matter, the alliance voting patterns still determine how the vote goes.

So the smart strategy would be to go in an elimination vs. players perceived as weak and then get enough people to protect you from being sent in again.  Only problem is when you run out of the "lay ups" you're going to be fighting vs. other strong players.

Again it depends on how often the elimination winners flip around to different partners.  Fessy will be looking to dump Aneesa, who seems as big as ever.  Blunt truth is that anything involved any kind of endurance will eliminate her.  We know that in the Final there will be some of that, though they have had extreme endurance Finals like the time that Zack was blubbering like a baby because his big muscles shut down in a long run uphill in cold weather.

In the previews they showed a wide shot from a drone of people running across wide open spaces.  So I don't know if that's part of the Final or they will have a challenge like that at some point.  Iceland is known for wide open, barren spaces so maybe they use the landscape to have some more endurance challenges.

Lolo bounded up that hill like an antelope but too bad for her that it wasn't a physical race.  I don't know if she has upper body strength like Natalie or the ability to perform and adapt under pressure but surprised none of the vet guys tried to get her.  I guess they think strength is ultimately an advantage.  You have to be able to run but you don't necessarily have to be able to run the fastest.  But mass and strength does into play in elimination and that helped Natalie because I think Asheley wore down getting over that hump.

[Jillibean]

9 hours ago, Eolivet said:

It's even more interesting that as Big Brother takes over more of the show, the show gets more like Big Brother, with the voting in secret. However, I give that "we know who voted for who" twist to last maybe another week before people start burning votes and hiding their alliances.

Do I remember correctly that you’re a recent Challenge convert? For historical perspective, voting in secret has actually been done multiple times before on the challenge, most notably in Cutthroat (which was over a decade ago) and more recently in Final Reckoning. It’s not a new thing, just one that cycles around. That’s what makes the Challenge different from BB or Survivor—the voting format changes every season and no one knows going in exactly what it will be. 

But yes, the “double agents” designation is dumb and another staple of the challenge in taking a theme too far and not actually deciding if it makes sense, like the year that everyone kept talking about who their vendetta was as though a vendetta is a person and not something you have WITH a person. Word usage has never been a strong point for this show.

8 hours ago, Eolivet said:

Mega-alliances suck the joy out of reality TV, as nobody thinks for themselves. It's all for the "alliance." Most recently Big Brother, but Survivor had overtones of it in the last couple seasons, too.

I would argue that the show realizes this is a problem as well on the heels of WOTW2, which is why they introduced the red skull twist last season. Truly, though—a lot of these challenge people have no loyalty or flexible loyalty to each other in the game. Even with Cara’s cult, it wasn’t that they LIKED each other, it was that they all knew it was best for their games to stick together. Just last season, we had friends turning on friends. I would give it a few episodes before we decide that there’s a mega alliance. To me what we saw here was a group of people strategically targeting a big threat in the game. Two seasons ago, Ashley was in a mega alliance. The last two seasons, she’s been booted early. To me that’s evidence of the fact that dynamics shift in this game all the time. Wes and CT being targeted first is the opposite of what usually happens in this series. 

I’m actually loving this format. I think it’s going to be really exciting to see the ways the pairs reconstitute after each elimination and to see the way people work this into their voting strategy to try to secure a better partner for themselves. I’m shocked that more guys didn’t want Lolo—did they not see her dominant performances on Champs vs Pros? Or maybe they did see it and didn’t want to work with her because she is crazy. Also shocked that Kam struggled to find a partner, as I think she’s one of the top female competitors in this game. 

And the Wes “shoe to the face” was absolute gold. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Jillibean

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, Jillibean said:

I’m shocked that more guys didn’t want Lolo—did they not see her dominant performances on Champs vs Pros? Or maybe they did see it and didn’t want to work with her because she is crazy.

Bingo lol. 

I enjoyed the hell outta that ep. Seeing Aneesa win was fun, even if I do somewhat question the validity of it lol. And, as always, I love to see people actually go after the big dogs rather than just talk about it. I would have much preferred it be a man's elimination though so we could have seen CT or Wes go first. I feel like even if it was supposed to be a man's elimination day they would have changed it just to avoid that happening though.

Ashley brings me so much joy so I am a but disappointed she left so early. 

I hate Kam but she also sometimes entertains me. Her being so butthurt that CT didn't wanna be her partner was everything to me. CT was a real asshole there tbh.

Wes getting hit in the face with a shoe was what we all needed. I was pleased they replayed it like 700 times.

I'm really looking forward to this season. I hope it can manage to entertain all the way through and not become increasingly tedious as it goes on like most seasons do.

[Treehugger9]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'm really looking forward to this season. I hope it can manage to entertain all the way through and not become increasingly tedious as it goes on like most seasons do.

It's been announced that this season is 19 episodes, which is a tad longer than average but not insanely long like...was it dirty 30 that went on forever? I think that was the season where every episode got stretched completely unnecessarily and just dragged on and on. I was wildly entertained for these 90 minutes and can't wait for next week!

[UniqBlue69]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I feel like even if it was supposed to be a man's elimination day they would have changed it just to avoid that happening though.

I was side-eyeing my tv so hard when that happened. Maybe our resident Challenge historian, @Lantern7, can help out and advise if a female elimination has ever come first first. I feel like the men's elimination has been first every season.

[Lantern7]

4 minutes ago, UniqBlue69 said:

I was side-eyeing my tv so hard when that happened. Maybe our resident Challenge historian, @Lantern7, can help out and advise if a female elimination has ever come first first. I feel like the men's elimination has been first every season.

Probably? I’ll have to check when I get home. I don’t think Teege called a play from the line of scrimmage. Also, even though we didn’t get a battle of legends, we had “Millionaire Mitchell” face someone that had also won $1 million in her “career.”

[angelamh66]

Regarding LoLo, yes she is an incredible athlete but her personality is so odious that I think any of the guys would steer clear of partnering with her fo fear that they would be targeted once she starts pissing people off. Which I firmly believe is an inevitability. 

[luckyroll3]

That intro was very interesting. Will TJ be modeling the latest in spy wear at the beginning of each episode this season?

Lolo's charge up that mound was amazing. The other ladies didn't stand a chance!  I'm also shocked that no one ran to scoop her up as a partner; however, her and Nam look like they will be a pretty powerful. If she can keep her crazy relatively in check, they could be a team to reckon with. 

I loved seeing Aneesa taking this first win! She's taken a lot of shit recently with folks thinking she's useless.

Speaking of, CT did Kam real dirty by running away like that. 

I was surprised he would take Ashley over her, especially considering how volatile Ashley can be. Honestly all of the pairings were interesting and I would love to hear the thought process of why some people chose who they did. Kinda mad Kam got stuck with Josh though, because that means I can't cheer for her. Hopefully she'll get the chance to kick him to the curb later on in the season. 

There are so many new rules to the game play, but I think they're all good additions.  For a second there, I thought Teej was going to put CT and Wes together as a team and then everyone else would have been totally fucked.  But I do like that only the person competing in the crater gets the skull and gets to decide on their partner going forward. It really makes the partnerships unstable because unless you and your partner are truly upfront with each other, you could be blindsided at any moment. I also really love the secret, individual votes. It was way too easy for people's votes to be manipulated when they had to do it in the large group setting.  And giving the "double agents" the knowledge of who voted for who is gonna lead to a lot of drama. I don't believe for a second that Fessy will keep that info to himself for long.

Corey and Nelson: We're not the new bucks anymore!! We're the old bucks

Me: Old bucks, new teeth!

[shantown]

I've been away for a few seasons (I think Rivals II was the last one I watched) so I don't recognize the majority of these people because I don't watch Big Brother or Survivor or Are You The One. So I'm automatically rooting for any RW/RR people just because I'm a purist and I don't really like that this has become The Challenge: D List Celebrities. That being said, I love CT and am glad he's not paired with Ashley any more. I'm hoping Aneesa does well. 

Some of the music choices stuck out for me. Orgy's Blue Monday? Talk about a throwback. And The Smiths' How Soon is Now? They were really going for some oldies on this episode!

[AncientNewbie]

Normally I can't get into this show much because the Real World-style drama, clubbing and hooking up isn't interesting to me anymore (oh, all the hungover college weekends I binged this show for hours on hours on hours...) but this starter episode was fun.

Ultimate Beastmaster is one of my treadmill shows, so I'm really hoping Nam gets a chance to show what he can do. No one should be able to touch that team in pure athleticism.

[peachmangosteen]

5 hours ago, shantown said:

Some of the music choices stuck out for me. Orgy's Blue Monday? Talk about a throwback. And The Smiths' How Soon is Now? They were really going for some oldies on this episode!

The music was really awesome last season and it seems like the trend is going to continue this season.

[SagisuAme]

Ashley pissed me off so much many times but I really gonna miss her. They call her a snake but she's the one "real" there. A bit crazy but not fake for sure. 

Kam acted like a butthurted looser who wasn't picked for a game in high-school. 

Fessy became a bit arrogant after the last season. 

Aneesa was so stupid choosing Wes for the elimination. You have one of the strongest partners and you're a vet yourself... She wanted to look cool but made herself a target instead of it. So pathetic...

I don't get Lolo. She is so happy that roockies pick the strongest couples. Hello girl, you are considered one of the strongest females there. This way you will be next!!!

I didn't like when vets picked rookies but I also don't like when weak players get read off all the strongest players. I want to see an interesting final not a bunch of floaters. 

[Lantern7]

On 12/10/2020 at 1:00 PM, UniqBlue69 said:

I was side-eyeing my tv so hard when that happened. Maybe our resident Challenge historian, @Lantern7, can help out and advise if a female elimination has ever come first first. I feel like the men's elimination has been first every season.

Okay, I'm going deep into the archives . . . by which I mean Wikipedia. I shouldn't be considered a historian. More of a buff, if I have to be honest.

Anyway! Apparently, the first time we had a single female elimination to start was Rivals. And that's it. Huh. I still don't think Teege called an audible. Then again, I think Jenny was supposed to have been the sole winner last season, and Johnny got a title when he was the first guy to finish. I'm selective when I side-eye.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Lantern7

[Racj82]

10 hours ago, shantown said:

I've been away for a few seasons (I think Rivals II was the last one I watched) so I don't recognize the majority of these people because I don't watch Big Brother or Survivor or Are You The One. So I'm automatically rooting for any RW/RR people just because I'm a purist and I don't really like that this has become The Challenge: D List Celebrities. That being said, I love CT and am glad he's not paired with Ashley any more. I'm hoping Aneesa does well. 

Some of the music choices stuck out for me. Orgy's Blue Monday? Talk about a throwback. And The Smiths' How Soon is Now? They were really going for some oldies on this episode!

I never understood the purist/I hate people from other shows coming in. It was either this or the show would die because road rules/real world is done and they can't keep bringing back the same people year after year. It was either this or end the show because they wouldn't been able to keep this going with the aging cast. Especially with how competitive it is now.

If they are good personalities or performers, I don't care where they come from.

[AntFTW]

16 hours ago, Jillibean said:

I would argue that the show realizes this is a problem as well on the heels of WOTW2, which is why they introduced the red skull twist last season. Truly, though—a lot of these challenge people have no loyalty or flexible loyalty to each other in the game. Even with Cara’s cult, it wasn’t that they LIKED each other, it was that they all knew it was best for their games to stick together. Just last season, we had friends turning on friends. I would give it a few episodes before we decide that there’s a mega alliance. To me what we saw here was a group of people strategically targeting a big threat in the game. Two seasons ago, Ashley was in a mega alliance. The last two seasons, she’s been booted early. To me that’s evidence of the fact that dynamics shift in this game all the time. Wes and CT being targeted first is the opposite of what usually happens in this series. 

I’m actually loving this format. I think it’s going to be really exciting to see the ways the pairs reconstitute after each elimination and to see the way people work this into their voting strategy to try to secure a better partner for themselves. I’m shocked that more guys didn’t want Lolo—did they not see her dominant performances on Champs vs Pros? Or maybe they did see it and didn’t want to work with her because she is crazy. Also shocked that Kam struggled to find a partner, as I think she’s one of the top female competitors in this game. 

I agree about the power alliances. I like the skull concept because it really takes an axe to the “power alliance” dynamic. In past seasons, the goal is to stay out of the eliminations, which is the reason for the power alliance. That doesn’t really apply so much anymore. It’s the reason why there weren’t any power alliances last season.

Also, last season was very “diplomatic.” There wasn’t much fighting over who goes in to get the skulls. They were letting each other take their turns and being civil about it. That has also changed with the limited number of skulls this season. Now, you may have to turn against someone to get your shot at a skull because there is a limited number of them. Now, they have more incentive for keeping people out of eliminations who don’t have skulls.

The only use for power alliances this season is to decide when you wanna go into elimination and to insulate yourself if you have a skull but either way, you have to risk possibly going home. You have to risk losing numbers on your side... and maybe Josh can win his first elimination ever.

...and I’m also shocked that more people didn’t go for Lolo, and that Kam struggled to find a partner.

Edited December 11, 2020 by AntFTW

[CrazyDog]

15 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Bingo lol. 

I enjoyed the hell outta that ep. Seeing Aneesa win was fun, even if I do somewhat question the validity of it lol. And, as always, I love to see people actually go after the big dogs rather than just talk about it. I would have much preferred it be a man's elimination though so we could have seen CT or Wes go first. I feel like even if it was supposed to be a man's elimination day they would have changed it just to avoid that happening though.

Ashley brings me so much joy so I am a but disappointed she left so early. 

I hate Kam but she also sometimes entertains me. Her being so butthurt that CT didn't wanna be her partner was everything to me. CT was a real asshole there tbh.

Wes getting hit in the face with a shoe was what we all needed. I was pleased they replayed it like 700 times.

I'm really looking forward to this season. I hope it can manage to entertain all the way through and not become increasingly tedious as it goes on like most seasons do.

TJ laughing hysterically at that shoe moment was the best scene in the whole ep. I didn't think CT was that rude though. They had to decide quickly, and I'm not sure of the quick and best way to blow someone off there, lol.

I found Fessy's avoidance of Aneesa so cringy though.

I continue to just hate Lolo on TV though. The crazy will emerge soon. She's just such a negative person.

Nam is so pretty. Some of the rookies look pretty entertaining. While I love modern CT, I liked Lio making a big move. I know nothing about him, but he seems cool.

Still love Jay.

While I have a certain attachment to some of the vets, it's going to be fun to see the dynamics with this round of newbies. I'm liking the the theme and the pairings.

I'm so happy there's no more claustrophobic bunker.

[BK1978]

On 12/9/2020 at 10:21 PM, Eolivet said:

Has anyone producing this show ever watched a spy movie in their life? How does winning a challenge make you a "double agent?" You say that word, but I don't think, etc.

 

I had no idea what the concept of this season was going to be like.  I was really hoping that it would be something similar to the Mole, so I was disappointed when I found out what the season theme actually was.  How cool would it be if they had teams and they had a few players actively sabotaging every one else?

11 hours ago, shantown said:

Some of the music choices stuck out for me. Orgy's Blue Monday? Talk about a throwback. And The Smiths' How Soon is Now? They were really going for some oldies on this episode!

I was kind of annoyed because they got the Smith's How Soon is Now?, but they couldn't get New Order's version of Blue Monday.  I just like the original better.

I hate the fact that I find Ashley highly attractive with the dark hair.  It is like I know how odious she is, but I can't help but find her hot.  It is like I am at war with myself.

I don't get why you would turn down working with Kam, in favor of working with Ashley.  Ashley might have won twice, but she really is not that great at the game.

There are a lot of good looking Rookie women on this season.  I don't recall any of their names besides Amber from Big Brother but yeah there are some very pretty women this season.

[luckyroll3]

5 hours ago, BK1978 said:

How cool would it be if they had teams and they had a few players actively sabotaging every one else?

That's where I thought this was going when I heard the theme. Or even keeping the pairs and tapping a couple of players to sow tension and spread misinformation, and maybe even some incentive for them to not get found out/caught so they'd have to get creative about their sabotage.  But I forgot that that the producers aren't really that creative...

 

5 hours ago, CrazyDog said:

TJ laughing hysterically at that shoe moment was the best scene in the whole ep. 

I was already laughing hard when I saw the shoe hit Wes in the face and him fall to the ground.  But I fell off the couch and couldn't breathe when the camera cut to TJ absolutely losing it! 

[IndyMischa]

2 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

I was as already laughing hard when I saw the shoe hit Wes in the face and him fall to the ground.  But I fell off the couch and couldn't breathe when the camera cut to TJ absolutely losing it! 

Hell, I like Wes most of the time, and that was still hilarious. TJ's uncontrollable glee was just a bonus. 

[MaggieG]

2 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

I was already laughing hard when I saw the shoe hit Wes in the face and him fall to the ground.  But I fell off the couch and couldn't breathe when the camera cut to TJ absolutely losing it! 

Same, I was dying!

So my younger brother is staying with me for a little bit and he's never watched this show and has no idea who these people are. So he watched it with me and it was fun getting his takes. He called Wes "Ed Sheeran", he said Josh had an annoying voice and face, he didn't like Kam because she whined too much about not getting picked by CT, he thought Nany and Kaycee were cute, Fessy looked douchey, Big T seemed dumb but sweet and he was freaked out by Kyle's teeth.

[luckyroll3]

1 hour ago, MaggieG said:

Same, I was dying!

So my younger brother is staying with me for a little bit and he's never watched this show and has no idea who these people are. So he watched it with me and it was fun getting his takes. He called Wes "Ed Sheeran", he said Josh had an annoying voice and face, he didn't like Kam because she whined too much about not getting picked by CT, he thought Nany and Kaycee were cute, Fessy looked douchey, Big T seemed dumb but sweet and he was freaked out by Kyle's teeth.

Seems like a spot on analysis. Can you please show him the scenes of Big T's drunken shenanigans and subsequent toe injury, including her horror at "fresh cotton pads!" and needing her heels to go to the hospital (still cracking up over that whole thing!  Lol!) and report back on his thoughts?

[shantown]

10 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I never understood the purist/I hate people from other shows coming in. It was either this or the show would die because road rules/real world is done and they can't keep bringing back the same people year after year. It was either this or end the show because they wouldn't been able to keep this going with the aging cast. Especially with how competitive it is now.

If they are good personalities or performers, I don't care where they come from.

I guess my two issues with the show now go a bit hand in hand. First, I liked when challenges were a bit more fun - I don't mind competitions/eliminations that require strength or endurance (or other physical qualities), but I really miss challenges that require anything else. The one trivia competition per season doesn't count to me when it also involves launching them off a platform or something when they're wrong. I'm not saying I want every challenge to be a logic puzzle, but some variety would be nice - driving, charades, drawing, steal the basics of some board games even - just don't make people be on fire while they do it! Second, the more this show brings in people from Survivor or Ninja Master or whatever, the more it becomes like those shows. I liked when this was more distinctive. Anyway, I'm gonna root hard for Aneesa because she's one of the last old school folks to be on this show and I like her. Will be interesting to see how the keep utilizing the spy theme throughout the season, correctly or not!

[MaggieG]

1 hour ago, luckyroll3 said:

Seems like a spot on analysis. Can you please show him the scenes of Big T's drunken shenanigans and subsequent toe injury, including her horror at "fresh cotton pads!" and needing her heels to go to the hospital (still cracking up over that whole thing!  Lol!) and report back on his thoughts?

I can't find this one Youtube 😞 I agree, he needs to see it!

[xfuse]

13 hours ago, BK1978 said:

I don't get why you would turn down working with Kam, in favor of working with Ashley. 

Kam has proven she can win eliminations.

Ashley has proven she can win the entire thing.

[Zima]

32 minutes ago, xfuse said:

Kam has proven she can win eliminations.

Ashley has proven she can win the entire thing.

This! Why is this so hard for people to get? 

Kam acted like a slighted middle school mean girl when CT didn't pick her. I get that it was an embarrassing blow to her enormous ego, but her reaction made her look insecure and petty. 

I am happy to see Natalie and Jay! I hope they make it all the way. 

Here are some shallow comments:  

Both Ambers are really cute.

The German/Asian guy is really cute.

CT looks about 10 years older than his actual age. His rough lifestyle sure caught up with him. I'm glad he finally got serious and got more in shape though. I am not a fan of "dad bod". 

Aneesa...needs to train if she wants to seriously win one of these things. Ooof is all I'll say. 

I am cracking up at Wes = Ed Sheeran. 🤣

 

 

[Jillibean]

5 hours ago, Zima said:

CT looks about 10 years older than his actual age. His rough lifestyle sure caught up with him. I'm glad he finally got serious and got more in shape though. I am not a fan of "dad bod". 

Aneesa...needs to train if she wants to seriously win one of these things. Ooof is all I'll say. 

Agreed on both counts. I know CT has certainly been through a lot, but he hasn’t looked great since his return to the challenge on Invasions. I believe he’s the same age (or a year younger than) Darrell, and he’s only four years older than Wes and two years older than Johnny. But you would never guess that by looking at them. I love Aneesa and I’m glad she’s still doing these, but I have to imagine no one besides her thinks she has a realistic chance to win. Until she really picks up her endurance and long distance running, she’s not going to be a contender. 

[AntFTW]

6 hours ago, xfuse said:

Kam has proven she can win eliminations.

Ashley has proven she can win the entire thing.

I agree! Kam is a good player but her plays only last one round rather than an entire game. Usually she has her plans and strategies but they only get her past one elimination or one challenge rather than to the end.

However, I will also say about Ashley that she has been playing from the bottom in seasons 35 and in this one. She's a walking target much like Wes. There's no such thing as playing a "quiet game" for them anymore.

-

-

-

Outside of all of that, I guess Kam is letting rookies slide this season. I recall her having this attitude of not letting rookies skate by and having them "earn their stripes."

[BK1978]

8 hours ago, Zima said:

This! Why is this so hard for people to get? 

 

 

I will admit I do not recall her first win at all.  But it is hard for people to get because it was Hunter who played a large part in getting her that second win.  It is not like she is some sort physically dominate player or even a strategic mastermind.

If the vast majority of the challenges are physical I would rather have Kam over Ashley because I think Kam is better at challenges and would give me more of a shot at winning challenges.  Plus Kam is more of a team player and more trustworthy.  Sure Kam might stab me in the back, but I would trust her far more than Ashley.

Edited to add:  Sandra won Survivor twice and there is no way in hell I would want her on my tribe if I was allowed to select who was going to be on it.  Just because they won twice does not mean they are masters of the game, they might just be masters at certain aspects of the game.  You know like being able to go to a final two with Lil or a final three with Russell.

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by BK1978

[Jillibean]

8 hours ago, BK1978 said:

I will admit I do not recall her first win at all.  But it is hard for people to get because it was Hunter who played a large part in getting her that second win.  It is not like she is some sort physically dominate player or even a strategic mastermind.

 

Ashley is fascinating to me. She’s been super hit or miss—she either gets to the end or she goes home first or second. She’s decent at dailies—I wouldn’t say she’s a standout, but she’s not too shabby either, assuming she agrees to participate. She’s just okay at eliminations and doesn’t have any impressive individual elimination wins to boast of, like Tori or Kam or even Jenna do. She survived a purge on Invasion mostly because she backstabbed her closest ally Amanda, avoided an elimination on FR because Zach sent himself and Amanda in, and won the FR final because she threw a grenade at her other close ally, Sylvia. On top of all that, she can be very mentally tough when it comes to winning and not letting people get in her way (see above betrayals of close friends), but she’s also an emotional basket case, recording at least one meltdown on every season she’s been on, including eliminating herself on Dirty Thirty because her luggage never showed up. I mean, the girl even has emotional meltdowns over the challenge mania podcast, deciding she loves and hates Scott Yager at least once a year. 

All that said, she has proven that she has the skill set needed to win a final, including puzzles, long distance running, swimming, and eating gross stuff. Kam is historically weaker on at least three of those elements—she isn’t a strong swimmer, didn’t place in either final she has run, and got herself purged on an eating challenge. However, in terms of house politics, eliminations, and general emotional stability, Kam is far superior to Ashley. So I think the choice comes down to would you rather have the person who you’re going to have to work hard to drag to the final but will be strong once you get there, or the person who’s going to help you make it to the final but who may or may not actually be able to win one. CT was probably counting on the fact that he could keep Ashley in check (not sure that’s possible, but if it is he might have been the one to do it). But all things considered, I would have probably rather had a person I could motivate through a final then a person who can be a political liability. Obviously, CT and I think differently, though. 

[Jess14]

Did Leroy and CT have a falling out? I've watched the Challenges off and on, so I may have missed something. However, I would've thought that CT would've been ok being paired with Kam because Leroy and his partner would've automatically been aligned with them. In that regard, I thought it was smart for Kaycee and Josh to pair with them. 

I enjoyed the first episode. The twist where players can get pick a new partner should make  for an interesting season. I'm curious though. Is only one person going to go home each episode? It seems like the season would be way too long if that was the case. There must be another twist there. 

I find Ashley pretty entertaining, but I was happy to see Natalie beat her. 

Random.... but, Nany looks different in the face. 

On the subject of new people v. RW/RR, I'm fine with the new people. I remember being annoyed back when the Fresh Meat people first came in, and Evan and Kenny (both of whom I disliked) started dominating things. At this point however, I just roll with it and go in knowing that I won't know half of the people. It has definitely come a long way from the first few challenges with eliminations. IIRC, people were pissed at Holly/Chadwick way back in the day for cutting Yes/Veronica rather than the lowest placing team...lol! Forever ago. 

[Zima]

1 hour ago, Jess14 said:

Did Leroy and CT have a falling out? I've watched the Challenges off and on, so I may have missed something. However, I would've thought that CT would've been ok being paired with Kam because Leroy and his partner would've automatically been aligned with them. In that regard, I thought it was smart for Kaycee and Josh to pair with them. 

I enjoyed the first episode. The twist where players can get pick a new partner should make  for an interesting season. I'm curious though. Is only one person going to go home each episode? It seems like the season would be way too long if that was the case. There must be another twist there. 

I find Ashley pretty entertaining, but I was happy to see Natalie beat her. 

Random.... but, Nany looks different in the face. 

On the subject of new people v. RW/RR, I'm fine with the new people. I remember being annoyed back when the Fresh Meat people first came in, and Evan and Kenny (both of whom I disliked) started dominating things. At this point however, I just roll with it and go in knowing that I won't know half of the people. It has definitely come a long way from the first few challenges with eliminations. IIRC, people were pissed at Holly/Chadwick way back in the day for cutting Yes/Veronica rather than the lowest placing team...lol! Forever ago. 

I agree with your whole post!

I was wondering what was up with Nany too. Her face looks so gaunt and like she maybe got plastic surgery? She looks so different. 

[Zima]

22 hours ago, Jillibean said:

Agreed on both counts. I know CT has certainly been through a lot, but he hasn’t looked great since his return to the challenge on Invasions. I believe he’s the same age (or a year younger than) Darrell, and he’s only four years older than Wes and two years older than Johnny. But you would never guess that by looking at them. I love Aneesa and I’m glad she’s still doing these, but I have to imagine no one besides her thinks she has a realistic chance to win. Until she really picks up her endurance and long distance running, she’s not going to be a contender. 

Sorry for the double post, but Idk how to go back and edit to add another quote....

I just wanted to say that Darrel has barely aged! It's crazy! 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Zima

[Jobiska]

On 12/9/2020 at 11:17 PM, Lantern7 said:

I watched the penultimate episode of The Amazing Race, "live," and the end results were dogshit. Utter dogshit.

Because reasons, I can't watch it Wed eves, and this was close to a spoiler, and now that I've seen it I agree.

 

[AntFTW]

On 12/12/2020 at 6:30 PM, Jess14 said:

Random.... but, Nany looks different in the face. 

On the subject of new people v. RW/RR, I'm fine with the new people. I remember being annoyed back when the Fresh Meat people first came in, and Evan and Kenny (both of whom I disliked) started dominating things. At this point however, I just roll with it and go in knowing that I won't know half of the people. It has definitely come a long way from the first few challenges with eliminations. IIRC, people were pissed at Holly/Chadwick way back in the day for cutting Yes/Veronica rather than the lowest placing team...lol! Forever ago. 

Nany does look different. She looks more mature (not like she's aged a lot but like she put on her grown woman face).

With regard to the new people, they've started dipping into cast members from more and more shows. There was a time where I only wanted to see the RW or RR people, and only tolerated new people from Fresh Meat seasons. I loved seeing all the shenanigans from Paula, Kenny, Evan and the rest.

They are introducing more and more new people that now outnumber the returning Challengers and the returning Challengers can't come in and dominate like they used to.

Also, as a sidenote, I'm rooting for the oldschool nonwinners. It's time that Leroy, Aneesa, and Nany go home with a win.

Edited December 15, 2020 by AntFTW

[Blueberry Snobal]

Paula wasn’t Fresh Meat. She’s Real World Key West.

[AntFTW]

3 minutes ago, Blueberry Snobal said:

Paula wasn’t Fresh Meat. She’s Real World Key West.

I’m aware. I was referring to RW and RR people as well as Challengers from Fresh Meat seasons. I was saying that I only tolerated people from RW/RR and Fresh Meat including Paula as an example of the fuckery I loved seeing season after season.

Edited December 13, 2020 by AntFTW

[aghst]

By now, RR and RW cast members on The Challenge are an endangered species.

Problem is they're probably too old for the MTV demographics.

Unless the old vets can compete physically with the buff newcomers or hook up with them despite the age difference, at some point MTV may only have token vets on the show.

Leroy says this is his last Challenge so maybe he feels out of place.  If he doesn't win again, he may not want to come back.  So maybe they'll fix it for him, because I notice he's featured in some of the ads for the show.  Bill Simmons called him a GOAT who never won it all.

[Jess14]

13 hours ago, aghst said:

By now, RR and RW cast members on The Challenge are an endangered species.

Problem is they're probably too old for the MTV demographics.

Unless the old vets can compete physically with the buff newcomers or hook up with them despite the age difference, at some point MTV may only have token vets on the show.

Leroy says this is his last Challenge so maybe he feels out of place.  If he doesn't win again, he may not want to come back.  So maybe they'll fix it for him, because I notice he's featured in some of the ads for the show.  Bill Simmons called him a GOAT who never won it all.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see more and more Big Brother and Survivor people, especially as Big Brother seems to put more and more focus on physical competitions each year. 

[Unclejosh]

I think CT looked a lot better on the Aftershow with Devyn. He looked like he lost even more weight which even the other cast members who just saw him not that long ago while filming noticed it. The bags under his eyes were pretty much gone which is one thing making him look older.  He was also in a good mood smiling a lot and making jokes.  Much different than most of his appearances on these things at least to my memory.

CT has a history of being a bit of a Ashley whisperer, he has calmed her down in the past during freakouts during one of their prior seasons and has run a final with her that they both won. So I can see him preferring her to Kam who he really doesn't know that well, he has stated before he doesn't watch these shows nor socialize with people from the show in real life outside of appearances for the most part so he wasn't really familiar with Kam's actual performances which are very good.  People need to remember that we as viewers and fans likely know way more than most of the actual cast with few exceptions like Wes who watches all the shows and does research.  Even Leroy said he doesn't watch the shows he is not in, so he has no idea about the performance of some of the cast on seasons he wasn't in.

 CT said outright if he knew of her social power he would have picked her.   But he was thinking of running a final and at first Darrel went up to Ashley based on reports but she said no but they were talking so I think he thought she was taken at first.  I think he wanted Tori because her main weakness (puzzles) is one of his strengths obviously.  Tori is also better in dailies and eliminations that Ashley plus is not likely to meltdown.  Makes sense those would be his 1 and 2 first choices.

CT also knew he would never be more than #2 on Kam's list and he wanted someone who would be his #1.  Just my take.  He has never been the most polite guy and he was in competition mindset so didn't have time for Kam's "Killa Kam" nonsense and wanted to snag Ashley before someone else did. It does come off as hella rude but i see why he did it and also why she would be upset at both his not wanting her and also the way he did it.

JMO.

 

[Unclejosh]

On 12/13/2020 at 2:59 AM, aghst said:

By now, RR and RW cast members on The Challenge are an endangered species.

Problem is they're probably too old for the MTV demographics.

Unless the old vets can compete physically with the buff newcomers or hook up with them despite the age difference, at some point MTV may only have token vets on the show.

Leroy says this is his last Challenge so maybe he feels out of place.  If he doesn't win again, he may not want to come back.  So maybe they'll fix it for him, because I notice he's featured in some of the ads for the show.  Bill Simmons called him a GOAT who never won it all.

I think Leroy's issue is more his back problems than anything else. He has had back problems for years and had to leave the show a few seasons back due to it.  It bothers him in daily life as he is doing Vlogs with Kam now and has to use a pillow for his back when sitting on his sofa due to the issue.  So as he is older now with a bad back, this type of competition is probably not worth the risk of further injury maybe permanent especially when he is not likely to win.  Kam will keep doing them and could very well win multiple if all the chips fall in her favor and since they are a couple he still benefits from the win (assuming they don't break up but they just moved to Houston together and seem very committed).

[xfuse]

17 minutes ago, Unclejosh said:

CT said outright if he knew of her social power he would have picked her. 

But her social power was good because she went with Josh. If she went with CT it wouldn't matter who she wanted because the BB alliance was going to go after a vet anyway. It might have not been CT but it might have been anyway.

[Unclejosh]

She said on her Vlog that they had Cory and Nelson before they even got to the house, they had Fessy who had Josh, Kaycee and the other BB people.  Even before she got partnered with Josh he was gonna be part of the alliance.  They weren't necessarily going after vets or rather CT until she campaigned hard for it.  Guarantee if CT did pick her BB was not picking them to go in due to the preexisting alliance which CT was unaware of prior.

They also had Nany, Darrell, Kyle in their alliance, or at least Leroy did.  Darrell was his number 1.

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Unclejosh
Clarity