S05.E17: Fifty Shades of Betrayal

[eleanorofaquitaine]

IMO, the fight would have "gone away" if Monique had expressed even one ounce of remorse towards Candiace. But even over the last few months, she has offered excuse after excuse why her violent actions were justified. So IMO Monique is the one who is responsible for keeping the fight story alive because her lack of remorse and unwillingness to take any responsibility is what led to Candiace filing charges and keeping the story going. 

[Iguessnot]

18 hours ago, lasu said:

So, if I yelled DRAG ME in your face, you would attack me?  What happens if I yell GIVE ME ALL YOUR MONEY?

What if Candiace had yelled at her husband to hit her?  Would it then be totally cool that he did so?

Talking about being violent and being violent are two different things.

I wouldn't hit you but if you want to test that theory on random members of the society, you go girl! Catch you on the 10 o'clock news.

[politichick]

12 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

This is where I'm at and why the rest of the season has fallen completely flat for me. Like I said when this whole thing first happened, maybe my years of watching truly ratchet television - Love & Hip Hop, Basketball Wives, etc. - has just desensitized me to fights on reality television shows but frankly this fight didn't warrant more than blink of an eye from me. 

I'm the same place now as I was when the episode first aired. Monique was wrong for putting her hands on Candiace and pummeling her head like she was beating dough. Candiace is still unpleasant as hell to me and a loud mouth who pops off all the time and this time got her ass beat. No, that's not saying she deserved it but that's basically what happened. 

Gizelle and Robyn have never liked Monique anyway, so this was all they needed to have a legitimate reason to finally demand to not film with her and interact with her at all. Ashley still clearly hates Candiace for a myriad of reasons and so right or wrong, she was never taking Candiace's side over Monique. 

Wendy and her four degrees is irrelevant and not reality television interesting at all, IMO. And finally, I have the unpopular opinion of believing that Karen is genuinely neutral in the sense that I do think she truly believes that both Candiace and Monique have some culpability for what happened. Whether one agrees with that assessment of hers or not, I do think it's what she believes and it's why she will not X Monique out the way the other women, excluding Ashley, clearly want her to. 

And frankly I'm sick of the almost bullish pressure they're trying to put on Karen, insisting that she's not holding Monique accountable and admitting she was wrong when Karen HAS said Monique was wrong multiple times. Her stance is that she's not going to stop being friends with Monique and essentially "pick Candiace over Monique". She insists she cares about them both and is still friends with them both and the other women just seem to refuse to want to accept that and I think that's bullshit. Because as I said weeks ago when this was first brought up, you can disagree with a friend's actions and still be their friend. 

But in conclusion, this season has mostly been one giant dud for me. 

I'm with you. There is absolutely no excuse for what Monique did, but Candiace uses her mouth as a weapon and sometimes I want to smack her my damn self. I never in a million years would, but the desire burns strong. I think that Karen totally thinks that Monique was wrong, but also believe that Candiace needs to watch her vile mouth because some bad shit can happen. It's interesting to see how strongly people on this board are on Candaice's side while at NYmag, for example, people are more sympathetic toward Monique although they all believe that what she did was totally wrong.

[Vanderboom]

On 11/24/2020 at 10:26 AM, Keywestclubkid said:

(Ashley and her husband Mr Burns)

I can't tell you how loud I laughed at this! Does that make Ashley Smithers?

21 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

When was the last time Every Hue Beauty was mentioned? 

I thought the same thing.  Gizelle looks for any excuse to come for Karen.  Who cares, Gizelle? Why do you always try to rain on Karen's parade?  Yes, she's a pretentious and dishonest oversharer, so go after her for that.  If she wants to come out with a perfume then a wig line, then why do you need to be the hatin' voice of doom?  No one told you you were overextending yourself with Every Hue Beauty and your raggedy little book you had trouble reading aloud from.  But it's only cute when you do it, right?

[eleanorofaquitaine]

45 minutes ago, Iguessnot said:

I wouldn't hit you but if you want to test that theory on random members of the society, you go girl! Catch you on the 10 o'clock news.

Most "random members of society" would understand that a person screaming "drag me" in their face are best ignored. And that they don't want to be on the 10 o'clock news for assault.

But in any case, Monique and Candiace weren't "random members of society" to each other.  Again, Monique's "words are just as bad as physical abuse" excuse is BS. 

[Keywestclubkid]

47 minutes ago, Iguessnot said:

I wouldn't hit you but if you want to test that theory on random members of the society, you go girl! Catch you on the 10 o'clock news.

then they shouldn't act surprised when the cops show up at their house with an arrest warrant ... there is a HUGE difference between yelling in someones face and physical violence .. one is illegal and one isn't .... crying victim because you knew right from wrong about putting your hands on someone and the consequences of that action should have been thought about before that punch was thrown

[lasu]

49 minutes ago, politichick said:

It's interesting to see how strongly people on this board are on Candaice's side while at NYmag, for example, people are more sympathetic toward Monique although they all believe that what she did was totally wrong.

I would be far, far more sympathetic if Monique took responsibility and showed remorse.  Or even took responsibility and didn't show remorse, lol.  Either:

I let Candiace get to me.  I lost my temper, and I'm so upset with myself that I allowed her words to "control" my behavior.  I definitely want to look at this and learn from it, because while I may not be able to control whether or not someone gets in my face, but I want to be able to control my own behavior and show my kids to never lay hands and to always rise above.  

Or:

Yeah, fuck that bitch.  She ran her fucking mouth and she got fucking served.  If that little dog barks at me again, I have no problem putting her back on her leash by any means necessary.  I won't be disrespected.  Fuck that and fuck Candiace.

I think a of Monique's problem is she feels the latter, but knows it doesn't sound good.  She knows the former sounds good, but she can't bring herself to say it.  So she's stuck in some mealy-mouthed middle and it doesn't give me any room for sympathy for her.  As long as she maintains this is all Candiace's fault, I can't.  And it sucks because I actually liked her far better than Candiace before this.  

[drivethroo]

6 minutes ago, politichick said:

I'm with you. There is absolutely no excuse for what Monique did, but Candiace uses her mouth as a weapon and sometimes I want to smack her my damn self. I never in a million years would, but the desire burns strong. I think that Karen totally thinks that Monique was wrong, but also believe that Candiace needs to watch her vile mouth because some bad shit can happen. It's interesting to see how strongly people on this board are on Candaice's side while at NYmag, for example, people are more sympathetic toward Monique although they all believe that what she did was totally wrong.

I wonder how many people at NYMag have watched the show in its entirety, or did they just tune in for the last couple of seasons? I think people are not necessarily Candiace fans, they're just not with the hypocrisy and double standards:

• If running your mouth justifies getting your ass beat, where is Ashley's beating?
• Why didn't Monique pummel Robyn when Robyn walked up on her after Monique threatened to drag her?
• If provoking people justifies violence, wasn't Candiace justified in waving the butter knife at Ashley when Ashley provoked HER first?
• Why does Candiace saying "GOOD NIIIIGHT/I'm sleep/I'm bored" justify a beatdown but Ashley accusing Monique of being a drunk driver who may have caused her own miscarriage not result in Monique beating Ashley?
• If the real reason Monique beat up Candiace was because of "the plot," why didn't Monique go after Gizelle, Charrisse or Gigi who were also part of this "plot" and started/spread the rumors?
• If the RH franchise is about a bunch of women who read & shade each other, why does Candiace deserve a beating for reading and shading but nobody else does, when she is getting paid like they are to talk shit about her castmates?
• Robyn, Gizelle and Karen have all talked shit about Michael, so where is Ashley's grudge with them?
• Why is it that Ashley (who did not see the fight) can support Monique but Wendy (who did see the fight) needs to STFU and stop supporting Candiace?

Even if they had watched only this season, they would've seen Monique coming for Candiace repeatedly and Candiace apologizing and/or walking away in every episode up until the fight episode.

So what and why are these double standards going on and why are they only applied to Candiace when quite frankly Gizelle and Ashley have said much viler, nastier things than Candiace and nobody is advocating beating them up for their slick mouths?

5 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

then they shouldn't act surprised when the cops show up at their house with an arrest warrant ... there is a HUGE difference between yelling in someones face and physical violence .. one is illegal and one isn't .... crying victim because you knew right from wrong about putting your hands on someone and the consequences of that action should have been thought about before that punch was thrown

A lot of people talk big and bad about what somebody else did/does/should be doing when they know they would not be taking those actions themselves in their own lives.  I think a lot of these people running around cheering Monique  for beating Candiace for having a "slick mouth" are living vicariously through Monique because when people talk slick to them in their lives, they don't beat that other person up.  They stew about it and go home because they have things to lose in their lives if they acted like Monique did. 

But Monique DOES have things to lose: her freedom, her children, her reputation, her friends, her money.  What I hear when people complain the fight is dragging out and taking too long is "Candiace needs to take her asswhipping in peace and go sit down and be quiet and stop talking about it."  Candiace filing charges and complaining about being harassed and having anxiety is a reminder that Monique has things to lose and consequences to face for her actions and if you've been living vicariously through Monique, it's a reminder that you too will face consequences if you decide to beat a bitch's ass because you don't like what they have to say.

3 minutes ago, lasu said:

Yeah, fuck that bitch.  She ran her fucking mouth and she got fucking served.  If that little dog barks at me again, I have no problem putting her back on her leash by any means necessary.  I won't be disrespected.  Fuck that and fuck Candiace.

I've actually done this (sans beating somebody up).  I had a coworker who kept picking and picking until I unloaded on her (a light switch was the trigger, lol). I cussed her up, down and all around...in front of everyone at the workplace and I did not care.  Had her all red in the face.  I told my supervisor I was not going to apologize to the woman and I was prepared to pack my shit and leave right then and there.  This woman got on my last nerves and if she had tried it again, she was gone git cussed out again.  I was not sorry, it felt good and it needed to be said by SOMEBODY.

  I should've been fired.  I was not.  We worked it out so I would never be in that woman's presence anymore.  I decided to let that anger at that woman go.  If she wanted to act a fool, that was her business.  If she wanted to lie on me, I have receipts. She actually got fired a year after that incident, too.  If Candiace is the actual problem on the RHOP set, that will be revealed and she will be fired (and vice versa).

I would've had more respect for Monique if she had told the other women this instead of sniveling and crying and pretending she had a blackout moment.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

27 minutes ago, lasu said:

I would be far, far more sympathetic if Monique took responsibility and showed remorse.  Or even took responsibility and didn't show remorse, lol.  Either:

I let Candiace get to me.  I lost my temper, and I'm so upset with myself that I allowed her words to "control" my behavior.  I definitely want to look at this and learn from it, because while I may not be able to control whether or not someone gets in my face, but I want to be able to control my own behavior and show my kids to never lay hands and to always rise above.  

Or:

Yeah, fuck that bitch.  She ran her fucking mouth and she got fucking served.  If that little dog barks at me again, I have no problem putting her back on her leash by any means necessary.  I won't be disrespected.  Fuck that and fuck Candiace.

I think a of Monique's problem is she feels the latter, but knows it doesn't sound good.  She knows the former sounds good, but she can't bring herself to say it.  So she's stuck in some mealy-mouthed middle and it doesn't give me any room for sympathy for her.  As long as she maintains this is all Candiace's fault, I can't.  And it sucks because I actually liked her far better than Candiace before this.  

I think it's more than just that Monique knows it doesn't sound good - it is also that Monique knows that her actions towards Candiace are irrational.  Again, if this were Ashley beating up Candiace, I could understand (though it would still not be justified) but Candiace's actions and words towards Monique have been comparatively mild.  And as drivethroo notes, others have said equally bad things about Monique, but we're not hearing about how they deserve to be dragged.

Like most bullies, Monique picked a target that she thought was weak. Certainly, because of her mouth, Candiace has weakened her own position in the court of public opinion. But Monique knows that she can't say, "yeah, I assaulted Candiace because I'm a bully and she's weak." So she's left in the mealy-mouth position you described. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by eleanorofaquitaine

[Keywestclubkid]

16 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

A lot of people talk big and bad about what somebody else did/does/should be doing when they know they would not be taking those actions themselves in their own lives.  I think a lot of these people running around cheering Monique  for beating Candiace for having a "slick mouth" are living vicariously through Monique because when people talk slick to them in their lives, they don't beat that other person up.  They stew about it and go home because they have things to lose in their lives if they acted like Monique did. 

But Monique DOES have things to lose: her freedom, her children, her reputation, her friends, her money.  What I hear when people complain the fight is dragging out and taking too long is "Candiace needs to take her asswhipping in peace and go sit down and be quiet and stop talking about it."  Candiace filing charges and complaining about being harassed and having anxiety is a reminder that Monique has things to lose and consequences to face for her actions and if you've been living vicariously through Monique, it's a reminder that you too will face consequences if you decide to beat a bitch's ass because you don't like what they have to say.

 

Yes!.. just like people are saying well Candace should know the consequences of running her mouth she deserves to be hit   Well Monique and everyone else who thinks its ok to hit should know the consequences of that action yea you might get to puff up and act all big and bad but you might also get thrown in jail get fined and lose a lot of shit because of you throwing those hands ....The fact Monique is NOW trying to use the I am a mother card and they are trying to take me from my children so people feel bad for her to me is bullshit she was a mother before she threw them hands she should have thought of that before acting all big and bad and the cops got called

Edited November 25, 2020 by Keywestclubkid

[Panda Bear]

On 11/23/2020 at 12:45 PM, Sun-Bun said:

Hate to say it, but I’ve almost come to expect seeing this kind of low-class try-hard shit featured on Atlanta or even OC, but do you think the ladies of BH, NJ, Dallas or NYC would *ever* agree to debase themselves by dressing up like sex workers just to go eat dinner in their laps in a cheesy European hotel suite? Hell no!!

LeeAnne Locken had a lingerie bridal shower in broad daylight at a Dallas restaurant. The NYC women often skinny dip or parade around naked during their vacations while interacting with service workers. Erika dressed up in a PVC dominatrix outfit while they were in Berlin, just to have dinner, and I think Lisa Rinna wore a trench coat with only her underwear underneath to that same dinner. The NJ ladies may keep their clothes on for the most part, but they threw cake across a restaurant's patio while in Miami and have had many other embarrassing public fights. 

I can see thinking the S&M party was gimmicky and a bit trashy, but I can't see comparing these ladies to any of the other franchises and thinking they come across worse.

[lasu]

15 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Yes!.. just like people are saying well Candace should know the consequences of running her mouth she deserves to be hit   Well Monique and everyone else who thinks its ok to hit should know the consequences of that action yea you might get to puff up and act all big and bad but you might also get thrown in jail get fined and lose a lot of shit because of you throwing those hands

So much this! People seem to think that it makes complete sense that getting hit was a consequence of running her mouth, but that Monique shouldn't have any consequences for assaulting someone.  To mean, if it follows that you might get hit if you run your mouth, it makes sense you might go to jail if you hit someone.  Or you might get sued.  Or you might get stabbed, who knows?  Or shit, I might be a secret ninja with a loud mouth because I know you don't know I can drag you all over this room.  DRAG ME, lol.

 

[byrd]

3 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

I wouldn't hit you but if you want to test that theory on random members of the society, you go girl! Catch you on the 10 o'clock news.

 

3 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

I wouldn't hit you but if you want to test that theory on random members of the society, you go girl! Catch you on the 10 o'clock news.

I know that's right, but careful what you ask for everybody wasn't raised the same. That does not make it right, but some women will DRAG YO ASS JUST BECAUSE !!!!!!  ( I got some COUSINS )  LOL !!!

Edited November 25, 2020 by byrd

[byrd]

3 hours ago, politichick said:

I'm with you. There is absolutely no excuse for what Monique did, but Candiace uses her mouth as a weapon and sometimes I want to smack her my damn self. I never in a million years would, but the desire burns strong. I think that Karen totally thinks that Monique was wrong, but also believe that Candiace needs to watch her vile mouth because some bad shit can happen. It's interesting to see how strongly people on this board are on Candaice's side while at NYmag, for example, people are more sympathetic toward Monique although they all believe that what she did was totally wrong.

I've been wanting to knock the shit out of her since the first season !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lol !!!!     JUST SLAP THE TASTE OUT OF HER MOUTH !! 

[byrd]

2 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

then they shouldn't act surprised when the cops show up at their house with an arrest warrant ... there is a HUGE difference between yelling in someones face and physical violence .. one is illegal and one isn't .... crying victim because you knew right from wrong about putting your hands on someone and the consequences of that action should have been thought about before that punch was thrown

There are some people that don't give a crap about the police , that's the life they live, be careful whom you provoke.   If you don't want to get dragged then keep you mouth shut, it does not matter , some people don't care about the consequences they just want to whip your ass anyway. If you can't fight , don't go there.. these people have nothing to lose and don't give a dam. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by byrd

[Iguessnot]

1 hour ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Most "random members of society" would understand that a person screaming "drag me" in their face are best ignored. And that they don't want to be on the 10 o'clock news for assault.

But in any case, Monique and Candiace weren't "random members of society" to each other.  Again, Monique's "words are just as bad as physical abuse" excuse is BS. 

Before I edited my comment to say random, I wrote skinheads or thugs. But the message being delivered is that it's Candiace's God given right to mouth off to whomever she wants as vilely as she wants, it doesn't matter if she trash talks Monique, Ashley, a toddler or a gang member. 

In a era where trigger warnings have to be posted every dang minute, I don't understand why it's not acceptable to suggest Candiace watch what she says to people.  

[lasu]

1 hour ago, Iguessnot said:

In a era where trigger warnings have to be posted every dang minute, I don't understand why it's not acceptable to suggest Candiace watch what she says to people.  

I don't think anyone has said Candiace isn't a brat with a slick mouth.  It's not unacceptable to suggest she watches what she says to people.  It's unacceptable to say if she doesn't, she deserves violence.  I don't understand why it's not acceptable to say Monique was wrong to get violent.

[Keywestclubkid]

2 hours ago, byrd said:

There are some people that don't give a crap about the police , that's the life they live, be careful whom you provoke.   If you don't want to get dragged then keep you mouth shut, it does not matter , some people don't care about the consequences they just want to whip your ass anyway. If you can't fight , don't go there.. these people have nothing to lose and don't give a dam. 

Monique is NOT one of those people if when the courts get involved all the sudden shes a wife and mother you cant do that to her clutch your pearls how dare she involve the courts I AM A MOM I shouldn't be held accountable for attacking someone. That doesn't count because I am a MOTHER I am a Wife.. some how the fact that I have birthed children and got a man to marry me  should give me a get out of trouble free card and let me do what i want to anyone with no repercussion just cause I am a wife and mother ... notice that is her and Ashley's reasoning they keep repeating over and over  .. ... ....she thought she could pop off and get away with it and thats not how that works she should have kept her hands to herself and walked away she should know that BECAUSE she is a wife and mother.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Keywestclubkid

[bosawks]

18 hours ago, dosodog said:

Wendy's degrees and Ashley's breast pumps.....

Four degrees of lactation?

[eleanorofaquitaine]

33 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Monique is NOT one of those people if when the courts get involved all the sudden shes a wife and mother you cant do that to her clutch your pearls how dare she involve the courts I AM A MOM I shouldn't be held accountable for attacking someone. That doesn't count because I am a MOTHER I am a Wife.. some how the fact that I have birthed children and got a man to marry me  should give me a get out of trouble free card and let me do what i want to anyone with no repercussion just cause I am a wife and mother ... notice that is her and Ashley's reasoning they keep repeating over and over  .. ... ....she thought she could pop off and get away with it and thats not how that works she should have kept her hands to herself and walked away she should know that BECAUSE she is a wife and mother.

I was going to say the exact same thing. Sure, there are people who don't care about the police and consequences.  But Monique is not one of those people - she clearly DOES care. Monique's problem is that she wants to be able to get away with assaulting Candiace without any consequences, she wants to be seen as the victim, not as the perpetrator. And she is decidedly not the victim here. 

She wants to have it all ways, and sorry, that's just not the way it works. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

2 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

Before I edited my comment to say random, I wrote skinheads or thugs. But the message being delivered is that it's Candiace's God given right to mouth off to whomever she wants as vilely as she wants, it doesn't matter if she trash talks Monique, Ashley, a toddler or a gang member. 

In a era where trigger warnings have to be posted every dang minute, I don't understand why it's not acceptable to suggest Candiace watch what she says to people.  

Nope, that's not it.  Candiace doesn't have a God given right to mouth off to whomever without people reacting.  Monique, Ashley, Gizelle, and whomever have the ability to open their mouths and say whatever WORDS they want to in order to address Candiace's vile words.  In fact, that is why I don't really have too much of an issue with Ashley writing a statement - Candiace was awful to her, Ashley has plausible deniability because she didn't see the fight, and she's using her words like a big girl to get back at Candiace. 

What Candiace does have a right to is to not be assaulted because she can get mouthy. And what Monique DOESN'T have the right to is to physically attack someone and somehow not have to accept consequences for her actions and play the victim. 

[Keywestclubkid]

2 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

Before I edited my comment to say random, I wrote skinheads or thugs. But the message being delivered is that it's Candiace's God given right to mouth off to whomever she wants as vilely as she wants, it doesn't matter if she trash talks Monique, Ashley, a toddler or a gang member. 

In a era where trigger warnings have to be posted every dang minute, I don't understand why it's not acceptable to suggest Candiace watch what she says to people.  

being mouthy isnt illegal getting physical is at any time Monique could have walked away before she touched Candace she chose not to Candace didn't make Monique do anything..yes maybe she should be more tactful but this still doesn't make what Monique did not illegal... ugh i hate Monique got me defending this woman....I must go do a shot now LOL

Edited November 25, 2020 by Keywestclubkid

[Neurochick]

On 11/24/2020 at 4:58 PM, lasu said:

So, if I yelled DRAG ME in your face, you would attack me?  What happens if I yell GIVE ME ALL YOUR MONEY?

What if Candiace had yelled at her husband to hit her?  Would it then be totally cool that he did so?

Talking about being violent and being violent are two different things.

Yes.

What also bugs me is that to say Candiace provoked Monique...what does that say about Monique?  That she's terribly immature and can't control herself?

On RHONYC, Dorinda said some awful things to Tinsley and anybody and yet, no one got physical with her. 

[Neurochick]

3 hours ago, byrd said:

There are some people that don't give a crap about the police , that's the life they live, be careful whom you provoke.   If you don't want to get dragged then keep you mouth shut, it does not matter , some people don't care about the consequences they just want to whip your ass anyway. If you can't fight , don't go there.. these people have nothing to lose and don't give a dam. 

I get what you're saying, but most of those people end up one of three ways, jail, institution or dead. 

But Monique isn't one of those people.  She has a lot to lose.

 

[truthaboutluv]

7 hours ago, lasu said:

People seem to think that it makes complete sense that getting hit was a consequence of running her mouth, but that Monique shouldn't have any consequences for assaulting someone. 

Not to speak for anyone else but I honestly think most people are like me where despite acknowledging Monique was dead wrong in her actions, just still can't stand Candiace and so frankly are just indifferent about the situation. It's not a not wanting Monique to not have consequences because hell, I didn't even realize both suits had been dropped. It's just plain indifference.

And it seems to me that much like the women and Karen, some feel posters can't have that reaction. That there needs to be some outrage about Monique's actions and any mentioning of Candiace's being unpleasant means taking Monique's side or blaming Candiace. Truthfully, at this point for me, I just don't care about the situation.

Monique was wrong and if she's gone from the show, she's gone. But frankly they can take Candiace too because yeah, sorry not sorry, that chick is a pain in the ass and not an entertaining one. I honestly cannot think of one time I genuinely laughed at something silly Candiace said or did or enjoyed some shade she threw like I do constantly with Karen and Gizelle and even Ashley. It's just always a snarl, twisted up mouth and some damn square tissues. 

[geauxaway]

1 minute ago, truthaboutluv said:

Not to speak for anyone else but I honestly think most people are like me where despite acknowledging Monique was dead wrong in her actions, just still can't stand Candiace and so frankly are just indifferent about the situation. It's not a not wanting Monique to not have consequences because hell, I didn't even realize both suits had been dropped. It's just plain indifference.

And it seems to me that much like the women and Karen, some feel posters can't have that reaction. That there needs to be some outrage about Monique's actions and any mentioning of Candiace's being unpleasant means taking Monique's side or blaming Candiace. Truthfully, at this point for me, I just don't care about the situation.

Monique was wrong and if she's gone from the show, she's gone. But frankly they can take Candiace too because yeah, sorry not sorry, that chick is a pain in the ass and not an entertaining one. I honestly cannot think of one time I genuinely laughed at something silly Candiace said or did or enjoyed some shade she threw like I do constantly with Karen and Gizelle and even Ashley. It's just always a snarl, twisted up mouth and some damn square tissues. 

THIS!!!!!!!  Can we PUH-LEAZE move it along.  No one is going to change my opinion on the dumb “fight” no matter how much you preach and dig your heels in and repost.  
 

Ashley wants her titties on camera and she is bound and determined to get a nip slip on camera.

Gizelle you are sucking the dick of a preacher man that will never be faithful to you, the most anointed one.

Karen...I probably would have put Giz’s face in a table if she had worn a shirt calling my hubs a Uncle Ben.  Girl, call me.  I can make you a shirt on my Cricut saying BABY DADDY OF 5,7,10.   #EVERWHO ....that’s right.  Look it up.  Doesn’t exist, yet here I am ordering L’Dame perfume.

Robyn.  File your fucking taxes correctly.  
 

Wendy.  I love what your dad did with the Junior Bacon Cheeseburger.  Not a big fan of the fries since they changed them.

 

[Neurochick]

6 minutes ago, geauxaway said:

Karen...I probably would have put Giz’s face in a table if she had worn a shirt calling my hubs a Uncle Ben.  Girl, call me.  I can make you a shirt on my Cricut saying BABY DADDY OF 5,7,10.   #EVERWHO ....that’s right.  Look it up.  Doesn’t exist, yet here I am ordering L’Dame perfume.

LOL, but Ray DOES remind me of Uncle Ben. 

I didn't know anybody's even wearing perfume now.  A lot of folks are scent sensitive now so....it's a huge NO for me. 

I keep getting distracted by Karen's mole.

[geauxaway]

3 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

LOL, but Ray DOES remind me of Uncle Ben. 

I thought that was reconfigured the same as Aunt Jemima.  (Which by the way is the only syrup and freezer waffles I will buy, because fuck Mrs Butterworth.)

4 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

None of the subjects you mention are particularly interesting to me, geauxaway. And given that the fight and its aftermath remain ongoing topics on the show, it's likely to come up again on the boards here. 

Awesome!!!  At the same time I will keep watching and judging the rest of the cast that is being paid based on their “stories.”   Knowing that in real time 

Spoiler

The “fight” was dismissed out of court and this over a year old 

 

[Neurochick]

7 minutes ago, geauxaway said:

I thought that was reconfigured the same as Aunt Jemima.  (Which by the way is the only syrup and freezer waffles I will buy, because fuck Mrs Butterworth.)

Old Uncle Ben then.

[geauxaway]

21 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Old Uncle Ben then.

Cool

[albarino]

23 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

'm the same place now as I was when the episode first aired. Monique was wrong for putting her hands on Candiace and pummeling her head like she was beating dough. Candiace is still unpleasant as hell to me and a loud mouth who pops off all the time and this time got her ass beat. No, that's not saying she deserved it but that's basically what happened. 

 

I agree and thank you.  I think everybody and their brother has weighed in on the fight and we all have a misunderstanding of the word "provoked."  I'm not ready to restart the conversation; I would prefer to let it go. I like this franchise and I don't want to see it go the way of BH where every episode is arguing about something stupid every minute.  

 

[RealReality]

13 hours ago, lasu said:

So much this! People seem to think that it makes complete sense that getting hit was a consequence of running her mouth, but that Monique shouldn't have any consequences for assaulting someone.  To mean, if it follows that you might get hit if you run your mouth, it makes sense you might go to jail if you hit someone.  Or you might get sued.  Or you might get stabbed, who knows?  Or shit, I might be a secret ninja with a loud mouth because I know you don't know I can drag you all over this room.  DRAG ME, lol.

 

LOL, this kinda reminds me of that Chappelle show skit "when keeping it real goes wrong"

One of the sketches in the series was about a woman (Brenda Johnson) who "didn't like people playing on her phone!"  so someone dials her by accident and she ends up tracking the person down and vandalizing their car, because she liked to "keep it real".  The final scene is of Brenda in the prison dining room getting beat down by three inmates serving consecutive life sentences because they "kept it realer"

If your life rule is its okay to be violent when you're annoyed than one day you'll run into someone who finds you annoying and "keeps it realer"

[RealReality]

16 hours ago, politichick said:

I'm with you. There is absolutely no excuse for what Monique did, but Candiace uses her mouth as a weapon and sometimes I want to smack her my damn self. I never in a million years would, but the desire burns strong. I think that Karen totally thinks that Monique was wrong, but also believe that Candiace needs to watch her vile mouth because some bad shit can happen. It's interesting to see how strongly people on this board are on Candaice's side while at NYmag, for example, people are more sympathetic toward Monique although they all believe that what she did was totally wrong.

But, what did Candace say that was so bad?  Drag me?  Robyn told Monique to choke her out and Monique beat feet like roadrunner. 

Everyone who thinks Candace got what she deserved cites her "vile mouth" .  But, what did Candace say that was so bad? Particularly in that instance, and frankly, the entire season?  Candace has been on an apology tour from the second she showed up to film this season.  

[RealReality]

11 hours ago, lasu said:

I don't think anyone has said Candiace isn't a brat with a slick mouth.  It's not unacceptable to suggest she watches what she says to people.  It's unacceptable to say if she doesn't, she deserves violence.  I don't understand why it's not acceptable to say Monique was wrong to get violent.

Exactly this.  To me, it should be two separate paragraphs, maybe even two different chapters.  

Chapter 1: No matter how much someone verbally annoys you, you cannot physically attack them.  

Chapter 2: wigs

Chapter 3: perfume

Chapter 4: caps

Chapter 5: constant breast pumping

Chapter 6: how many butts has Michael Darby grabbed?

Chapter 7: the right length for a dissertation 

Chapter 8: how many degrees is the right number of degrees

Chapter 9: Candace should not say vile things. 

To me, one has nothing to do with the other.  If you want to say that Candace shouldn't say this or that, it has nothing to do with the concept that you can't physically attack someone for annoying you.  The problem to me is that people want to make it part of the same sentence and then it becomes a de facto excuse for Monique. 

[RealReality]

On 11/24/2020 at 4:50 PM, Chatty Cake said:

Of course not you seem very nice.

I’m not the type to get in a verbal altercation. They often lead to physical altercations.

That has never been my experience.  In my experience two grown adults can exchange heated words without either one thinking that they are going to assault the other.   Anyone who wants to end an argument by becoming violent instead of by walking away or coming to a resolution needs help.  This is not a thing adults should be doing, if for no other reason than because you could end up in jail or causing permanent physical damage to another person that you regret and cannot take back.  

You say something mean, you can apologize and make amends.  You put someone in a coma, they end up with permanent facial damage or a cut up face, you can't make amends for that, you can't make that better.  

[Talented Tenth]

2 hours ago, RealReality said:

But, what did Candace say that was so bad?  Drag me?  Robyn told Monique to choke her out and Monique beat feet like roadrunner. 

Everyone who thinks Candace got what she deserved cites her "vile mouth" .  But, what did Candace say that was so bad? Particularly in that instance, and frankly, the entire season?  Candace has been on an apology tour from the second she showed up to film this season.  

Candiace has never said anything bad to Monique that we've seen and Monique has never said Candiace said anything bad to her off camera.  People are grasping at straws to justify violence against Candiance.  It would be just so much easier for them to just say they don't like Candiace and don't care that she was assaulted.  All of the excuses and justifications are illogical.

[Neurochick]

4 hours ago, RealReality said:

LOL, this kinda reminds me of that Chappelle show skit "when keeping it real goes wrong"

One of the sketches in the series was about a woman (Brenda Johnson) who "didn't like people playing on her phone!"  so someone dials her by accident and she ends up tracking the person down and vandalizing their car, because she liked to "keep it real".  The final scene is of Brenda in the prison dining room getting beat down by three inmates serving consecutive life sentences because they "kept it realer"

If your life rule is its okay to be violent when you're annoyed than one day you'll run into someone who finds you annoying and "keeps it realer"

Thanks for that I remember that sketch and thought, "Yep, that's exactly what 'keeping it real' gets you." 

[Chatty Cake]

5 hours ago, RealReality said:

But, what did Candace say that was so bad?  Drag me?  Robyn told Monique to choke her out and Monique beat feet like roadrunner. 

Everyone who thinks Candace got what she deserved cites her "vile mouth" .  But, what did Candace say that was so bad? Particularly in that instance, and frankly, the entire season?  Candace has been on an apology tour from the second she showed up to film this season.  

The whole Good Niiiiight was obnoxious. People are forgetting though, Candiace had a part in the nasty rumors about Monique cheating. They wanted to take down a happy family out of jealousy and spite. Charisses husband hated her and openly cheated and Candiace didn’t land a guy that impresses people so they wanted to take that from Monique. 
So after all that, Candiace is in Moniques face begging Monique to do something. The whole wounded little lamb bit is complete bullshit. 

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, Chatty Cake said:

The whole Good Niiiiight was obnoxious. People are forgetting though, Candiace had a part in the nasty rumors about Monique cheating. They wanted to take down a happy family out of jealousy and spite. Charisses husband hated her and openly cheated and Candiace didn’t land a guy that impresses people so they wanted to take that from Monique. 
So after all that, Candiace is in Moniques face begging Monique to do something. The whole wounded little lamb bit is complete bullshit. 

Saying "goood night" was more obnoxious than Gizelle calling Monique names in her own house?  More obnoxious than Ashley telling people Monique was a drunk driver?  More obnoxious than Gizelle telling Monique, to her face, that the only reason she is relevant was because of her husband? 

The most I know that Candace did was hand over a phone number.  Gizelle put the rumors on national TV and Charisse spread the rumors. I had not heard of Candace even putting those rumors on her social media, the platform upon which everyone complains she does her dirtiest work.  I haven't heard that she gave any bloggers, vloggers or YouTubers interviews saying that Monique cheated on Chris and that the baby wasn't his.  But when Monique saw the main perpetrator, Charisse, at Candaces party, she again, beat feet like roadrunner and did nothing. g.  How is Candace giving out a phone number worse than Gizelle putting the rumor on national TV and Charisse spreading the rumor?  Have either of them been physically assaulted by Monique?  Nope.  

ETA: for as much as people may hate white Chris, I believe that is exactly the guy that Candace wanted.  She is young, gorgeous, educated and was connected enough to get a position in the Obama administration.  On paper, she makes an excellent trophy wife.  If she had wanted an NFL player I'm sure she could have gone that route without being a decade long groupie girlfriend like Monique.  

Edited November 26, 2020 by RealReality

[Chatty Cake]

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

Saying "goood night" was more obnoxious than Gizelle calling Monique names in her own house?  More obnoxious than Ashley telling people Monique was a drunk driver?  More obnoxious than Gizelle telling Monique, to her face, that the only reason she is relevant was because of her husband? 

The most I know that Candace did was hand over a phone number.  Gizelle put the rumors on national TV and Charisse spread the rumors. I had not heard of Candace even putting those rumors on her social media, the platform upon which everyone complains she does her dirtiest work.  I haven't heard that she gave any bloggers, vloggers or YouTubers interviews saying that Monique cheated on Chris and that the baby wasn't his.  But when Monique saw the main perpetrator, Charisse, at Candaces party, she again, beat feet like roadrunner and did nothing. g.  How is Candace giving out a phone number worse than Gizelle putting the rumor on national TV and Charisse spreading the rumor?  Have either of them been physically assaulted by Monique?  Nope.  

ETA: for as much as people may hate white Chris, I believe that is exactly the guy that Candace wanted.  She is young, gorgeous, educated and was connected enough to get a position in the Obama administration.  On paper, she makes an excellent trophy wife.  If she had wanted an NFL player I'm sure she could have gone that route without being a decade long groupie girlfriend like Monique.  

Candiace is too obnoxious to be trophy wife material. And big mama would scare any leftover contenders away. A man who doesn’t mind being kept by a woman’s mama is the best she could do. And even he seems sick of her at times.

Gizelle definitely delighted in the Monique rumors and enjoyed spreading them. She is with a man who openly cheated and has baby mamas so she was very jealous of Monique.  Candiace was the one that got the ball rolling with old bitter Charisse. 

Monique may have waited for Chris but it’s just a testament to their love. What a beautiful family!

Edited November 26, 2020 by Chatty Cake

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

ETA: for as much as people may hate white Chris, I believe that is exactly the guy that Candace wanted.  She is young, gorgeous, educated and was connected enough to get a position in the Obama administration.  On paper, she makes an excellent trophy wife.  If she had wanted an NFL player I'm sure she could have gone that route without being a decade long groupie girlfriend like Monique. 

So the better option was a broke guy with two baby mamas who wasn't even really that close to and taking care of his oldest child until recently and with who Candiace's mother still needed to help foot the bill for their home? Wow, such a prize. Monique may have been the decade long groupie girlfriend but she did eventually get the ring and the three kids (guaranteed child support until they're all 18 if they break up. Not that I'm saying that's why she had her kids). 

But this is kind of what I'm referring to.  This whole fight is being dragged into all other things. I'm sorry, but if we start playing the calling out these women and their love life game, they are ALL a hot mess except for maybe Karen. Yeah her and Ray are in that common situation right now where he's older and over it and they're in different places in their life. But by all accounts, they had a good marriage and relationship. And well Wendy's husband seems awesome as well. 

But Gizelle is back with Pastor Community Dick who she doesn't even know how many baby mamas he has, Ashley isn't worth mentioning, Robyn's in some continued saga with Juan and Candiace was the one who talked about Chris saying things to her like "you ain't shit, so stop acting like you think you're shit" while she throws his troubled relationship with his father in his face. Oh relationship goals those two are.

Edited November 26, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[Chatty Cake]

Monique did show remorse and was set to apologize when the big baby Candiace decided to take legal action like the coward she is.  Monique knew it was best not to say anything since Candy and mama would just use it against her.

[Chatty Cake]

35 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

So the better option was a broke guy with two baby mamas who wasn't even really that close to and taking care of his oldest child until recently and with who Candiace's mother still needed to help foot the bill for their home? Wow, such a prize. Monique may have been the decade long groupie girlfriend but she did eventually get the ring and the three kids (guaranteed child support until they're all 18 if they break up. Not that I'm saying that's why she had her kids). 

But this is kind of what I'm referring to.  This whole fight is being dragged into all other things. I'm sorry, but if we start playing the calling out these women and their love life game, they are ALL a hot mess except for maybe Karen. Yeah her and Ray are in that common situation right now where he's older and over it and they're in different places in their life. But by all accounts, they had a good marriage and relationship. And well Wendy's husband seems awesome as well. 

But Gizelle is back with Pastor Community Dick who she doesn't even know how many baby mamas he has, Ashley isn't worth mentioning, Robyn's in some continued saga with Juan and Candiace was the one who talked about Chris saying things to her like "you ain't shit, so stop acting like you think you're shit" while she throws his troubled relationship with his father in his face. Oh relationship goals those two are.

Amen! You can tell Chris doesn’t really enjoy being with Candyass all that much. Probably figured it was easy as the mama would fund their lifestyle.

Gizelle should not have an opinion about anyone’s relationship. Her poor daughters obviously can’t stand their mom running back to their whore mongering daddy. What an embarrassment.

Ashley too has settled for a guy who likes to get down outside their relationship and grabbing butts. But at least Ashley did that statement on Moniques behalf. 🤣🤣🤣 Poor idiot girl gets to be victim some more.

I believe Karen and Ray have a beautiful marriage and are just having a storyline based on their marriage. Karen is good to that man!

I like Robyn but not sure Juan is that into her.

 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

32 minutes ago, Chatty Cake said:

Monique did show remorse and was set to apologize when the big baby Candiace decided to take legal action like the coward she is.  Monique knew it was best not to say anything since Candy and mama would just use it against her.

Guess we're still doing this. Monique assaulted Candiace. Monique refused to apologize and told the other women she wasn't remorseful.  Candiace isn't a "coward" for utilizing the tools - including the legal system - that are at her disposal. If anyone is a coward, it's Monique for siccing a bunch of people on social media to spread false stories about the fight, continuing to trash Candiace, and insisting she's the victim in an assault that she committed. 

There are plenty of things to like about Monique and to dislike about Candiace. But this insistence that up is down and that day is night with regard to this fight is really something. 

[Emma C]

Maybe I need to rewatch the scene, but it looks like M pulled C's hair, and not much more. I don't really think anyone got punched...? Am I wrong? Regardless, M was wrong, but C is a bit of a drama queen about it all.

[dosodog]

Jezebel has a slowed down version of the fight, with "play by play".  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/jezebel.com/what-viewers-missed-during-monique-and-candiaces-epic-f-1845204452/amp

[Emma C]

49 minutes ago, dosodog said:

Jezebel has a slowed down version of the fight, with "play by play".  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/jezebel.com/what-viewers-missed-during-monique-and-candiaces-epic-f-1845204452/amp

thanks for posting that!

I'm sure that was very upsetting for C, but again, she got her hair pulled. That's hardly traumatic. That's a catfight. Doesn't mean that M was right, that whole thing was messed up. C totally provoked M. And I understand C not wanting to be around M anymore, but enough with the therapy and drama!

Edited November 26, 2020 by Emma C
so. many. thoughts.

[truthaboutluv]

3 hours ago, Emma C said:

Maybe I need to rewatch the scene, but it looks like M pulled C's hair, and not much more. I don't really think anyone got punched...? Am I wrong? Regardless, M was wrong, but C is a bit of a drama queen about it all.

Nah, I'm pretty sure Monique dropped some punches on Candiace's head. That's why Chris asked her if she wanted to see a doctor to make sure she didn't have a concussion. 

As soon as things went all the way left, Monique punched her on the head a few times. It was pretty quick and by the time the producers and everyone was trying to get her off, she was mostly just holding on tightly to Candiace's hair. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[TexasGal]

Hey y’all - some posts have been hidden for personal attacks. Snark on the show and not each other please.  The play by play on the fight is not relevant for this episode, so take it back to the episode thread or move on.

 

[RealReality]

11 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

Candiace is too obnoxious to be trophy wife material. And big mama would scare any leftover contenders away. A man who doesn’t mind being kept by a woman’s mama is the best she could do. And even he seems sick of her at times.

Gizelle definitely delighted in the Monique rumors and enjoyed spreading them. She is with a man who openly cheated and has baby mamas so she was very jealous of Monique.  Candiace was the one that got the ball rolling with old bitter Charisse. 

Monique may have waited for Chris but it’s just a testament to their love. What a beautiful family!

LOL, not the trophy wives I've met who are plenty obnoxious.  Candace is gorgeous, young, educated and connected.  A lot of men, especially men who work 60-80  hours a week to make trophy wife money aren't going to spend that much time with their wives anyways, and they basically want someone who looks good on their arm and is well spoken.  They don't want to be pitied by being with a beautiful woman who is clearly an idiot or part of some "pretty woman" situation.  

Candace gave out a phone number.  That is it.  Gizelle has laughed about it on air, Charisse spread the rumors.  The only one that Monique attacked is the one who did the least but is the smallest and weakest.  That's a punk bitch move.  

LOL, Monique waited for Chris because she had no other life options.  She was a failed rapper without any skills, talent or education.  A DECADE of dating likely means that all his better options left for greener pastures and Monique was the only one pathetic enough to stick around.  

And if he made sure to marry her AFTER he left the NFL, he is smarter than I give him credit for.  

Edited November 27, 2020 by RealReality