S01.E07: End Game

[DangerousMinds]

12 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I remember crashing on people's sofas in the 70's and 80's.  Not strange to me.

Also the 90s and beyond. I’m 52 and still do it sometimes.

Edited October 31, 2020 by DangerousMinds

[dubbel zout]

Someone has a hotel room that's nicer than the dump I'm staying in and I'll sleep in the bathtub.

[truther]

On 10/26/2020 at 8:15 PM, Neurochick said:

This was a limited series, it was never going to have a season 2.  It had to end.  I think it was the best ending.  I mean it would have sucked if it ended with her dying drunk in an alley.  I think because there is so much darkness on TV these days, it's hard to accept a nice, simple story.  There always has to be something behind it, like the janitor had to be an abuser or something, or something terrible was going to happen because that's the shit we've been fed on TV and movies.

Agreed.  I loved this show and I really loved this final episode.  Nobody got shot.  There was no terrible secret that revealed a hidden world of abuse that was worse than anything we could have imagined.  There weren't shadowy figures more powerful than you knew whose reveal will shock us.  Those endings would have been cop-outs because that's what every formulaic show does nowadays.  Instead we got a beautiful story about imperfect people trying their best to make sense of their lives.  Even the awesome Jolene, when she returned, they made a very specific meta point of saying she wasn't the Black Guardian Angel cliche but instead somebody Beth had helped just as much as the other way around.   

On 10/27/2020 at 10:40 PM, AttackTurtle said:

I loved this show.  I was very happy with how they humanized the Russians.  It started with the young boy she initially played and then they kept it up.  She always credited the janitor, but the publications chose not to include it in their stories about her. But man, when she saw his wall of her stories in the basement, I was like it’s about damn time you remembered that wonderful man.

So much was packed into the last episode, but I loved it.  I also loved that the story didn’t go the predictable route of her being corrupted by guys.  Her adoptive mom was a head fuck for sure, but that relationship meant something to both of them at the end. 

And this doesn’t really need to be said but the hair/makeup/wardrobe people all deserve Emmys.  

Again, agreed entirely.  I think that scene of Beth finding Mr. Scheibel's scrapboard, and then crying over the photo, was the single most powerful part of the whole series.  And the Russians were great.  @tennisgurl mentioned the Einstein-y guy, and his reaction of genuine warmth and pleasure at having lost to the person he considered the best chess player in the world.  Just a great scene.  

18 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I am so happy that we circled back to Beth's bio mom, the orphanage, and Mr. Scheibel as Beth become the world champion. I really loved this show and I thought that the ending was great.

I especially loved her growing fan club in the USSR and how much everyone was rooting for her, and as weird as it is that she decided to just wander the streets back to the airport, I am glad that we ended where we started, with just a regular game of chess. The happy ending felt really earned to me, so I was happy to leave on such a high note. 

I really liked how the Beth's competitors were portrayed. . . .The talk between her and the older master with the Einstein hair was especially sweet, and even Borgov gave her a full hug after she won. . . .I also loved how supportive the other woman she played back in her first match was, and how she even came back to see her later and wish her luck in her future matches. 

I did expect to see a bit more of the cold war politics to show up . . . .She just wants to play chess and doesn't really care much about the greater international ideological implications of her games. 

So maybe this is a crazy thought, but did anyone else think Beth is going to defect?  There was a distinct theme through this show about the value of community over American individualism.  The State Department wouldn't even help pay for her trip then sent a CIA guy to tell her what to do and say, and she blew him off.  She blew off the anti-communist Jesus people.  She doesn't care about geopolitics.  She gets to Russia and sees ordinary people on the street playing chess, ordinary people following the chess tournament, ordinary people working together and cheering her on.  I imagined Beth getting out of that car at the end not for a short game on the way to the airport, but because she's finally found her happy place.  Fancy clothes and glamour got her Cleo and waking up drunk in a bathtub.  Hard work and sobriety got her the world championship and the sincere admiration of her chess rivals.  If she goes back to the US she meets the president and spews Cold War talking points at Georgetown parties.  If she stays in Moscow she plays chess with the best chess players in the world (and looks phenomenal doing it).  When Borgov said "I expect to die playing chess," or words to that effect, wasn't Beth jealous?  

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, truther said:

his reaction of genuine warmth and pleasure at having lost to the person he considered the best chess player in the world. 

There's something to be said for losing to someone better than you and not because you made some bonehead mistake.

1 hour ago, truther said:

did anyone else think Beth is going to defect?

To the USSR? Never ever. I think Beth respected the respect they had for chess, but I can't imagine it a reason for her leave the US. She's not ideological, or at least we didn't get any indication of it. Defection is a big, serious deal. You don't do it because you'll have more chances to play chess.

1 hour ago, truther said:

The State Department wouldn't even help pay for her trip

This did surprise me. She didn't give them much notice, admittedly, but even in those pre-internet days, it wouldn't have taken someone too long to get the scoop on her. Beth was the real deal, not some crackpot. It's not as if cultural exchange programs were unheard of. I feel like if they could pay for her minder, they could have thrown some dough her way to help defray expenses.

[Darian]

On 10/28/2020 at 10:37 AM, dubbel zout said:

The hat is what made it too costumey for me. But it was the '60s. There was a lot of dress-up going on.

 

There sure was. They really got the clothes right, including modernizing them as time passed. The other thing they got really, really right was the music. I was a little kid with two sisters in high school for most of the years this covered and they basically used the soundtrack of my childhood. Songs that were popular but not the go-tos you hear to ground the viewer in the time period. One sister was a British invasion fiend, the other was all about Motown, and they played some gems from both. Classical Gas over the montage in episode 4 was perfect. That song was all over the airwaves all the time, and worked for the scene. 

I loved seeing Beth go from a traumatized child to insular young woman to someone forming relationships and growing as a person. The various relationships were interesting, and I was glad to see Jolene (I will watch the actor in anything now) thrive and that Beth made sure Mr. Scheibel was credited. Mrs. Wheatley wasn't much of a mother, but in a way, she was the mother Beth needed to become who she became. And she was good for poor Mrs. Wheatley. I enjoyed this so much.  I might watch again in the future, since, like some of you, got anxious through a lot of it.   

Edited October 31, 2020 by Darian

[Roseanna]

On 10/26/2020 at 7:23 PM, WatchrTina said:

My one major eye-roll was when Beth got out of the car on the way to he airport and went for an impromptu stroll in Moscow, ending with the game against a sidewalk player.  I knew that a match was coming as soon as they showed us the players near the start of the episode.  What a pity they decided to stage the match in such a thoroughly implausible manner (nobody risks getting to the airport late for an international flight.  And why would her CIA minder just let he go after having dogged her heels the rest of the trip?  It made no sense.)

 

On 10/26/2020 at 11:22 PM, Mabinogia said:

Yeah, I wish they hadn't done any of that, from the moment Beth decides she's going to walk (to the airport?!??! I mean, she's taking an int'l flight, so I imagine this is a fairly major airport. Any fairly major airport I've ever been to has been pretty massive itself, so it would be a hike just to get to the terminal from the entrance, let alone from the city!!!!) to her saying "let's play" with her signature chin on folded hands stance. 

The problem wasn't just a big airport, but the Soviets were pretty strict. I remember once in Tallinn when I was with my Estonian friend and something happened and I doubted whether I will not be in time to catch my ship to Helsinki. Luckily that didn't happen as my visa expired that day and in those days there was only one ship shift.     

Edited November 2, 2020 by Roseanna
adding a word

[Roseanna]

On 10/26/2020 at 5:43 PM, ClareWalks said:

I appreciated that at the end of the day, the Soviets weren't a bunch of evil boogeymen. I was on edge that they'd have wiretapped her phone or poisoned her food or something, but they did nothing bad and she earned their full respect. It was nice to see a Cold War-era throwdown go so smoothly.

 

On 10/26/2020 at 6:00 PM, dubbel zout said:

Same, though I was legit surprised the State Department guy (who was totally CIA!) didn't warn her that her suite was bugged. That was SOP, and everyone knew it.

Again, I know this wasn't about dueling ideologies, but given the era the show is set in, I'm a bit surprised things weren't played up a tiny bit more.

 

On 10/28/2020 at 10:25 PM, Umbelina said:

Also, both her room and phone were undoubtedly wire tapped, that is just a given, but that they didn't show the KGB informing Borgov of chess plans was great.  The wire tapping was irrelevant to the over all story, which I loved, just standard "keep an eye on things" stuff.

 

On 10/30/2020 at 4:32 AM, Umbelina said:

I just thought of something.  It's POSSIBLE, but certainly not a given that Beth's tapped phone and room, the Russians very well could have told Borgov everything that was said in that phone call.

After all, he wasn't making the moves she or her helpers expected there, and she had to scramble on her own, so ...  was that chance, or did he know?

Yes, irl her room and phone would have been tapped. There is even a little KGB tapping museum in Viru hotel in Tallinn.    

But also I like that they don't use that in the show. I think it's entirely possible that Borgov who knew that Beth had studied his old games decided (maybe it was proposed by his team) to use something new, showing he wasn't a machine after all. And of course that surprise was necessary for the plot: Beth's win must not seem too easy.    

Edited November 1, 2020 by Roseanna
adding a sentence

[Roseanna]

On 10/31/2020 at 6:26 PM, truther said:

So maybe this is a crazy thought, but did anyone else think Beth is going to defect?  There was a distinct theme through this show about the value of community over American individualism.  The State Department wouldn't even help pay for her trip then sent a CIA guy to tell her what to do and say, and she blew him off.  She blew off the anti-communist Jesus people.  She doesn't care about geopolitics.  She gets to Russia and sees ordinary people on the street playing chess, ordinary people following the chess tournament, ordinary people working together and cheering her on.  I imagined Beth getting out of that car at the end not for a short game on the way to the airport, but because she's finally found her happy place.  Fancy clothes and glamour got her Cleo and waking up drunk in a bathtub.  Hard work and sobriety got her the world championship and the sincere admiration of her chess rivals.  If she goes back to the US she meets the president and spews Cold War talking points at Georgetown parties.  If she stays in Moscow she plays chess with the best chess players in the world (and looks phenomenal doing it).  When Borgov said "I expect to die playing chess," or words to that effect, wasn't Beth jealous?  

No, I never suspected of Beth of detecting and can't understand why would she would - especially as she isn't alone any more.      

Instead, her security guy evidently believed that Bogrov would like to detect for why else would he have said to her to tell him if Bogrov gave her "a message".      

[Pepper Mostly]

On 10/31/2020 at 12:26 PM, truther said:

So maybe this is a crazy thought, but did anyone else think Beth is going to defect? 

In the sixties, at the height of the Cold War? No way. 

I loved the ending, I was perfectly happy to suspend my disbelief (because of course her handler would never have let her out of the car to wander unattended through the streets of Moscow.) But for that beautiful moment when she could fully embrace her love of the game. I teared up. 

 

On 10/31/2020 at 3:24 PM, Darian said:

The other thing they got really, really right was the music.

The music was stellar. Unbelievably good choices. I agree that the "Classical Gas" sequence was perfect. So funny, I haven't heard that song in years (possibly decades, though I had the 45 back in the day), but when I heard the first few notes it was like going into a time machine. Amazing. 

[Mabinogia]

On 10/31/2020 at 12:26 PM, truther said:

So maybe this is a crazy thought, but did anyone else think Beth is going to defect? 

While I knew she wouldn't, I sort of picked up on some odd vibe that for just a moment made me wonder. I can't even point out what it was but for just a moment I though, maybe not so much that she would defect but that she might have wished she'd been born Russian, or that she'd have been better off if she'd been from there or something. Maybe it was because she never really felt like she belonged anywhere so might as well be from Russia where they love chess as much as she did. But yeah, I saw something that made me pause for a moment. 

[ClareWalks]

36 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

(because of course her handler would never have let her out of the car to wander unattended through the streets of Moscow.)

He should have said "okay, let's walk" and gotten out of the car WITH her!

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, ClareWalks said:

He should have said "okay, let's walk" and gotten out of the car WITH her!

Maybe, but I'm pretty sure he was not her only "watcher."

As for defecting?  No.  I don't think she would consider it.  She can find the same groups of people playing chess in parks in the USA.  I think it was more a type of "sharing her win" with men who reminded her of the first man who taught her how to play.  She saw them earlier, and he had just died, it was a natural progression to me.

[Roseanna]

On 10/31/2020 at 6:26 PM, truther said:

She gets to Russia and sees ordinary people on the street playing chess, ordinary people following the chess tournament, ordinary people working together and cheering her on.  I imagined Beth getting out of that car at the end not for a short game on the way to the airport, but because she's finally found her happy place.  Fancy clothes and glamour got her Cleo and waking up drunk in a bathtub.  Hard work and sobriety got her the world championship and the sincere admiration of her chess rivals.  If she goes back to the US she meets the president and spews Cold War talking points at Georgetown parties.  If she stays in Moscow she plays chess with the best chess players in the world (and looks phenomenal doing it).  When Borgov said "I expect to die playing chess," or words to that effect, wasn't Beth jealous?  

Adulation from the public and admiration from peers aren't same as friendship and love. She wouldn't be "an ordinary person" in Russia but one of nomenklatura who could buy anything in their own shops (also Western goods).

When her talent had been noticed as a kid, she would be rigorously trained. Russian couches idea isn't to encourage but to pick up flaws and if somebody breaks, there are always others.     

Why would she be jealous of Borgov, when she had been sorry for the Russian boy who had no idea what he would do after he had won the World Championship at sixteen?

[Roseanna]

On 10/30/2020 at 11:24 PM, tennisgurl said:

Beth become the world champion. 

She didn't become the world champion.

This was only an invitation competition where there was only one play against an opponent.  To become the world champion many games are played and one must win the most.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Chess_Championship

[Roseanna]

8 hours ago, Umbelina said:

As for defecting?  No.  I don't think she would consider it.  She can find the same groups of people playing chess in parks in the USA.  I think it was more a type of "sharing her win" with men who reminded her of the first man who taught her how to play.  She saw them earlier, and he had just died, it was a natural progression to me.

Yes, these men who played just for their own pleasure with others of the same kind represented her teacher, the caretaker who had borrowed her money she never paid back but who still followed her chess career and admired her. 

11 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

While I knew she wouldn't, I sort of picked up on some odd vibe that for just a moment made me wonder. I can't even point out what it was but for just a moment I though, maybe not so much that she would defect but that she might have wished she'd been born Russian, or that she'd have been better off if she'd been from there or something. Maybe it was because she never really felt like she belonged anywhere so might as well be from Russia where they love chess as much as she did. But yeah, I saw something that made me pause for a moment. 

Better off? Russian orphanages were terrible places.

There was one advantage, though. Children could exercise for free in "pioneer palaces". But once her talent was invented, the state would "own" her. 

[Umbelina]

After watching this and thinking about it I really wanted to try my hand at playing chess again (it's been YEARS, and I was never great at it, but won several times without having any training, or having read any books.)  Anyway, found an online game with no ads or BS, posted it in the small talk thread here for anyone else who is so inclined.  (Their backgammon game is great too, haven't tried the others yet.)

So, I picked "easy" and after I finally started winning all of those, went to "medium" and am mostly getting my butt kicked.  Still, getting back into the feel of the game a bit.  Sure makes me think of what it must have been like for Beth, to beat the best in the world.  Somehow, it is making the last show even more powerful for me.

ETA Damn knights!

Edited November 2, 2020 by Umbelina

[Mabinogia]

10 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Better off? Russian orphanages were terrible places.

I doubt she would have known that. She was an orphan in the 60s who was under educated (based on the amount of times her mom pulled her out of school to play chess) and had lived a pretty shit life as far as feeling wanted or welcome goes. Even her adopted mom only really took an interest after she realized Beth could make money playing chess. Now, I loved their slowly growing bond, but it is what it is. I don't think the mom was necessarily thinking about what was best for Beth but about the life Beth was allowing her to live, travelling, making money, having a drinking buddy. Theirs was a fascinating relationship. It might have been the best part of the show for me in how bitter sweet it was, totally messed up but also a lifeboat for Beth that helped her find herself and dig herself out of the hole life put her in. 

I don't think she would have been better off, but I can see a teenager who has lived a shitty life wondering what it would have been like, just for a moment, to live somewhere that would have encouraged and nurtured her talent rather than make her fight for it every moment. Again, this is coming from her POV which is that the Russians help each other out and are sponsored by their country where she had to push her way and pay her way to every competition and take money from an organization she didn't believe in in order to keep competing. 

[truther]

6 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I doubt she would have known that. She was an orphan in the 60s . . . I don't think she would have been better off, but I can see a teenager who has lived a shitty life wondering what it would have been like, just for a moment, to live somewhere that would have encouraged and nurtured her talent rather than make her fight for it every moment. Again, this is coming from her POV which is that the Russians help each other out and are sponsored by their country . . . .

This is much closer to how I see it, too.  I tried to be crystal clear that in suggesting that Beth wanted to defect, I was talking about her POV, rather than some objective notion that the USSR in 1968 was a nice place to live or that Beth moving there would be a good idea.  Hell, you couldn't pay me to live in Russia now, forget 50 years ago.  

But having said that -- and now I feel like I'm back in college -- I honestly think you can solidly deconstruct this show to argue that it is, at best, ambiguous about which side in the Cold War was the "right" side.  There's so much symbolism, and so many little things, that combine to undercut the idea that Beth is lucky to be an American.  From her perspective, as a prodigy who lives for chess, she's arguably better off somewhere else.  Her mom got no help from society and killed herself.  At the orphanage she had to sneak down to the basement to play chess with the weird outsider guy.  Beth's only foray into "normal" high school life was with the Apple Pie club or whatever they were called, and they turned out to be vacuous idiots, backed up by her later running into Margaret whose best days were behind her.  Beth's adopted mom couldn't do anything with her classical piano training and only found (fleeting) happiness when she left the US for Mexico.  Her adopted dad only wanted money.  Beth was lost in Kentucky, and went to Las Vegas (symbol of American material excess) only to lose to the Russian.  She met a child prodigy who was just like her (literally -- neither had been to a drive-in) but was supported instead of ostracized.  The glamorous French model whom Beth lusts after literally talks about how she is an empty vessel for materialism, and she ends up sabotaging Beth's Paris contest with the Russians.  Beth finally wins by giving all that up in a place that would have encouraged her interest rather than lampooned it.  Etc. etc.

You can say the show glossed over all the real problems with life behind the Iron Curtain, like the fact that Soviet tanks were rolling through Prague pretty much as the Moscow tournament was going on.  But the show doesn't talk about Vietnam, or the Civil Rights movement, either, even though it starts in Kentucky and goes to college campuses and flies Beth around the world.  And every time the outside world tries to impose its Cold War ideology on Beth, she resists, whether it's at the orphanage, or the school, or with the Jesus people, or the media, or from the State Department/CIA.  She doesn't just hop out of the car to play chess on the Moscow streets - she does it right after the CIA handler gives her her talking points for the trip back to DC.  Total repudiation.  And she's happy for it.  

[Roseanna]

21 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I doubt she would have known that. She was an orphan in the 60s who was under educated (based on the amount of times her mom pulled her out of school to play chess) and had lived a pretty shit life as far as feeling wanted or welcome goes. Even her adopted mom only really took an interest after she realized Beth could make money playing chess. Now, I loved their slowly growing bond, but it is what it is. I don't think the mom was necessarily thinking about what was best for Beth but about the life Beth was allowing her to live, travelling, making money, having a drinking buddy. Theirs was a fascinating relationship. It might have been the best part of the show for me in how bitter sweet it was, totally messed up but also a lifeboat for Beth that helped her find herself and dig herself out of the hole life put her in. 

I don't think she would have been better off, but I can see a teenager who has lived a shitty life wondering what it would have been like, just for a moment, to live somewhere that would have encouraged and nurtured her talent rather than make her fight for it every moment. Again, this is coming from her POV which is that the Russians help each other out and are sponsored by their country where she had to push her way and pay her way to every competition and take money from an organization she didn't believe in in order to keep competing. 

 

13 hours ago, truther said:

This is much closer to how I see it, too.  I tried to be crystal clear that in suggesting that Beth wanted to defect, I was talking about her POV, rather than some objective notion that the USSR in 1968 was a nice place to live or that Beth moving there would be a good idea.  Hell, you couldn't pay me to live in Russia now, forget 50 years ago.  

But having said that -- and now I feel like I'm back in college -- I honestly think you can solidly deconstruct this show to argue that it is, at best, ambiguous about which side in the Cold War was the "right" side.  There's so much symbolism, and so many little things, that combine to undercut the idea that Beth is lucky to be an American.  From her perspective, as a prodigy who lives for chess, she's arguably better off somewhere else.  Her mom got no help from society and killed herself.  At the orphanage she had to sneak down to the basement to play chess with the weird outsider guy.  Beth's only foray into "normal" high school life was with the Apple Pie club or whatever they were called, and they turned out to be vacuous idiots, backed up by her later running into Margaret whose best days were behind her.  Beth's adopted mom couldn't do anything with her classical piano training and only found (fleeting) happiness when she left the US for Mexico.  Her adopted dad only wanted money.  Beth was lost in Kentucky, and went to Las Vegas (symbol of American material excess) only to lose to the Russian.  She met a child prodigy who was just like her (literally -- neither had been to a drive-in) but was supported instead of ostracized.  The glamorous French model whom Beth lusts after literally talks about how she is an empty vessel for materialism, and she ends up sabotaging Beth's Paris contest with the Russians.  Beth finally wins by giving all that up in a place that would have encouraged her interest rather than lampooned it.  Etc. etc.

You can say the show glossed over all the real problems with life behind the Iron Curtain, like the fact that Soviet tanks were rolling through Prague pretty much as the Moscow tournament was going on.  But the show doesn't talk about Vietnam, or the Civil Rights movement, either, even though it starts in Kentucky and goes to college campuses and flies Beth around the world.  And every time the outside world tries to impose its Cold War ideology on Beth, she resists, whether it's at the orphanage, or the school, or with the Jesus people, or the media, or from the State Department/CIA.  She doesn't just hop out of the car to play chess on the Moscow streets - she does it right after the CIA handler gives her her talking points for the trip back to DC.  Total repudiation.  And she's happy for it.  

This was a story about one extraordinary individual and the end was very much fairytale. As the Russians were at that time best in chess, the last opponent had to be the Russian World Champion. Of course that added extra input compared with a representative of some smaller country but there was no reason why the show should have to described any grievances of the US or Russia (besides that Bogrov had KGB "overcoats" abroad). Besides, most Russians were generally nice people in private life (but lousy as customer service representatives).

The motives you suggest to Beth would mean that she would be a person motivated by the past grievances . But she threw her pills away which showed that she was finally free from her demons. Whatever she (according to you) would have get in Russia as a teenager, it can now offer her anything, on the contrary she would lose all her friends.

Generally, even if one can the language (and only few can learn it perfectly as adults), it's not easy to adapt in a new culture. One must know also history, literature (very important in Russia!), manners, mentality, all inside references and jokes.

 

[kieyra]

On 10/31/2020 at 3:24 PM, Darian said:

Songs that were popular but not the go-tos you hear to ground the viewer in the time period.

I'm not old enough to know the songs from the time, but I always enjoy 'vintage' songs from television and movies, and have a collection of them in a playlist. (I also worked at a fifties-themed diner as a teenager, with a lot of jukebox classics).

... and I still had never heard the vast majority of music used in this (aside from obvious stuff like Venus), which was really nice. I'm shocked I'd never heard the song the girls were singing along to at the sleepover, that's the kind of thing that would end up in my "Vintage" playlist immediately. 

[Melina22]

On 10/30/2020 at 12:06 AM, DearEvette said:

The acting, the writing ,the set design(!!), the costume design(!!), it was such a treat! And Anya Taylor-Joy was perfectly cast.

I never usually say this, but Anya's extreme, otherworldly beauty was a big part of why this show worked for me. When I got bored by the long chess scenes, I would still be entertained by staring at how beautiful and odd-looking she was, her perfect, graceful posture, wonderful clothes and sad wig. Those never got old. At the same time, I don't think this would have happened if she'd been conventionally attractive. It was a perfect fit. 

Agree on the set design. I adored Beth's flowery, kitschy, humorous home. It was a refreshing change from the stark minimalist interiors we see so much nowadays. 

[Kim5689]

I really loved this show, but the one thing I would have loved to of seen is a reunion between Beth and Mr Scheibel before he passed. It would of been nice of Beth to thank him for opening the door of opportunity for her, and to keep her word on the money she promised to pay back. More often than not we forget where we came from and who helped us along the way. The part where she saw all his newspaper clippings made me so sad. 

[PaulaO]

Who was the man, I think his name was Paul, that Beth and her mom visited before the suicide accident?  Are we supposed to infer that Beth was their love child (in keeping with 60s music)?  I loved this series, especially the sets and clothes.  

[Mabinogia]

34 minutes ago, PaulaO said:

Who was the man, I think his name was Paul, that Beth and her mom visited before the suicide accident?  Are we supposed to infer that Beth was their love child (in keeping with 60s music)?  I loved this series, especially the sets and clothes.  

That was my guess, and given that her mother's name was on some kind of mathematical book or whatever (can't think of the word I'm looking for right now) I jumped to the assumption he might have been her professor or mentor or some such. Pure speculation because I have a very vivid imagination. 

[dubbel zout]

That's exactly who he was—Beth's bio dad and (most likely) her mother's college professor. He was quite the jerk, too. The women in Beth's life didn't give her a very good basis for picking a partner, that's for sure.

[Mabinogia]

1 minute ago, dubbel zout said:

The women in Beth's life didn't give her a very good basis for picking a partner, that's for sure.

Too true. And I'm glad the show did not feel the need to give her a romantic happily ever after. So many shows/movies would feel the need to have her mated by the end of the series but it feels much more organic for Beth not to be. Her first love is the game. I like that the relationships she does end up with, that the show emphasizes are friendships and the little makeshift family she finally has. 

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

I'm glad the show did not feel the need to give her a romantic happily ever after.

Same! Romance isn't what the show is about, but that always seems to get shoehorned in when the protagonist is a woman.

[Ohiopirate02]

16 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

That was my guess, and given that her mother's name was on some kind of mathematical book or whatever (can't think of the word I'm looking for right now) I jumped to the assumption he might have been her professor or mentor or some such. Pure speculation because I have a very vivid imagination. 

 

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

That's exactly who he was—Beth's bio dad and (most likely) her mother's college professor. He was quite the jerk, too. The women in Beth's life didn't give her a very good basis for picking a partner, that's for sure.

That man was Beth's father, but the situation was more complicated than married professor banging his student.  In a previous episode, we are shown in a flashback where Beth's mom took off with Beth and kept him away from Beth.  I interpreted this scene as they had had a more committed relationship that may have lasted years before Beth's mom's mental illness got to be too much.  He stands outside where the two are living and tells Beth's mom that if she doesn't allow him to see Beth then he was done.  And he meant it.  He moved on, met another woman, got married and had at least one kid.  He does turn Beth and her mom away on that fateful day, but he did that based on years of known behavior.  

The only thing I  cannot explain about Beth's dad is why he did not pursue custody of her in the intervening years and why he allowed her to go to the orphanage.  I would assume the car accident that killed Beth's mom would have made the papers in Kentucky in the 1950s.  

[dubbel zout]

12 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

  He does turn Beth and her mom away on that fateful day, but he did that based on years of known behavior.  

Way to punish the daughter for the sins of the mother. Ugh.

12 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The only thing I  cannot explain about Beth's dad is why he did not pursue custody of her in the intervening years and why he allowed her to go to the orphanage.  I would assume the car accident that killed Beth's mom would have made the papers in Kentucky in the 1950s. 

Unless his current wife didn't know about Beth? It's definitely a head-scratcher why he totally washed his hands of Beth. She was still so young.

[Ohiopirate02]

22 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Way to punish the daughter for the sins of the mother. Ugh.

Unless his current wife didn't know about Beth? It's definitely a head-scratcher why he totally washed his hands of Beth. She was still so young.

I can see where he was coming from when Beth's mom shows up out of the blue wanting him to take Beth.  He was not wrong in setting up boundaries with her.  How was he supposed to know that she was that close to killing herself?  He calculated that if he and his wife took Beth in, then they would never know peace.  Mom would keep on coming back into their lives wreaking havoc.  He probably also thought that Beth was better off with her mother over him if he was single.  I do think he was single when he broke ties with the two of them.  Some good old fashioned misogyny where he thinks all women are born with a maternal instinct and he being a man was ill-equipped to take care of a daughter.  

[ClareWalks]

Re: the dad, in the book 

Spoiler

the dad is not present whatsoever, we never learn who he is. I guess the series needed to keep that continuity for the whole orphan thing, but I don't know why the series added this father in when it wasn't strictly necessary (they could have established her birth mother's mental illness differently).

 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, ClareWalks said:

Re: the dad, in the book 

  Reveal spoiler

the dad is not present whatsoever, we never learn who he is. I guess the series needed to keep that continuity for the whole orphan thing, but I don't know why the series added this father in when it wasn't strictly necessary (they could have established her birth mother's mental illness differently).

 

That makes a lot more sense than the miniseries.  As I watched the episodes unfold, I was wondering if her bio-dad was ever going to show up.  Beth wins tournaments and becomes a bit of a success with features in mainstream publications like Life Magazine, so the possibility of him finding her was there.  And then we see Jolene show up and find out that she has been following Beth's career for years.  

[KD88]

On 10/31/2020 at 7:24 PM, Darian said:

The other thing they got really, really right was the music. I was a little kid with two sisters in high school for most of the years this covered and they basically used the soundtrack of my childhood. Songs that were popular but not the go-tos you hear to ground the viewer in the time period. One sister was a British invasion fiend, the other was all about Motown, and they played some gems from both. Classical Gas over the montage in episode 4 was perfect. That song was all over the airwaves all the time, and worked for the scene. 

I agree, the whole series depicted the 60's so well. 

Loved the beaten up Chevy with the flames and the (Unsafe at any speed) Corvair.  I added Classical Gas to my Spotify account straight after that scene but did anyone else notice the timeline anomaly with Venus by Shocking Blue? It wasn't released until 1969.

[shrewd.buddha]

I was satisfied with the "and she lived happily ever after" ending.  I was not in the mood for a gritty, more-like-real-life conclusion. 
I was a bit sad for this to be ending - but this isn't the kind of story that needs a sequel.  (So please don't attempt one, Netflix.)

On 10/30/2020 at 10:36 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I got the impression that Borgov was an honorable man who wanted to beat Beth fairly. 

On 10/30/2020 at 2:48 PM, Umbelina said:

I think we he "adjourned" the match early, it was because he was losing, and he went to his chess buddies/team for advice and help.

Beth had two adjournments near the end of a major tournament.  Would that really happen?  Consulting with the best players during the overnight adjournment seemed highly unethical on the part of the Russians.  But was all that just a setup for Beth's endgame rally moment when she realizes she has 'family' of friends ready to help?  ..It was a nice moment, though.

The Jolene character felt like such a lazy stereotype when she magically appeared at the end to put Beth back on track.  And why did Jolene, of all the characters, have the sassy, ghetto diction? Marvel Studios has helped make the "best friend who is a minority" such a cliché that it is almost offensive. These characters are always super chill, worldly and are always ready with some wry observation about 'crazy white folk'.  I believe writers can do better than that. 

I did like that Beth rejected the church money on principal, despite how easy it would have been to take it.

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by shrewd.buddha

[kieyra]

I’ve rewatched this too many times now, caught a little error:

In episode one’s opening flash to 1967, when Beth climbs out of the bathtub and answers the hotel door, she says (in French): “I’ll be down soon,” followed by “yeah?” in English.

In episode six, when we catch back up to that scene, we see the door opening from a different angle, and her French words are the same, but followed by “okay?” in English, and clearly a different audio take.

Strange for such a detail-oriented show to miss this.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 10/31/2020 at 8:58 AM, dubbel zout said:

Someone has a hotel room that's nicer than the dump I'm staying in and I'll sleep in the bathtub.

This gives me bad memories of people sleeping in my bathtub.

On 10/31/2020 at 3:24 PM, Darian said:

The other thing they got really, really right was the music.

My Dad said the same!

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 11/5/2020 at 6:09 PM, Kim5689 said:

I really loved this show, but the one thing I would have loved to of seen is a reunion between Beth and Mr Scheibel before he passed. It would of been nice of Beth to thank him for opening the door of opportunity for her, and to keep her word on the money she promised to pay back. More often than not we forget where we came from and who helped us along the way. The part where she saw all his newspaper clippings made me so sad. 

I agree, that was really tough.  If the first interview didn't print the reference to him, then why wouldn't she push harder in the subsequent interviews?  Instead the show made it seem like she had dozens, hundreds (?) of interviews since that moment (they were printed in his office) and throughout that time she forgot about caring to credit him until he finally died, which I'm sorry, is just too late.  She's the subject of the interviews, so she could have made it a condition for the interview to be published, or done SOMETHING, instead of nothing for a decade.

Edited November 12, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 11/8/2020 at 12:33 PM, shrewd.buddha said:

The Jolene character felt like such a lazy stereotype when she magically appeared at the end to put Beth back on track.  And why did Jolene, of all the characters, have the sassy, ghetto diction? Marvel Studios has helped make the "best friend who is a minority" such a cliché that it is almost offensive. These characters are always super chill, worldly and are always ready with some wry observation about 'crazy white folk'.  I believe writers can do better than that. 

I've been watching a lot of Hallmark movies (a lot of them are Christmas, etc.) and mostly every Hallmark movie has this going on too.  Sometimes there's two white protagonists, one white man, one white woman, and they give each of the protagonists a Black Best Friend in their same gender. And sometimes, the Black Best Friends even start dating each other!  (You know, because the races must always be kept separate!) Really transparent, insulting, and embarrassing.

Edited November 12, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[kieyra]

Yeah ... I’ve watched this whole thing a few times now and Jolene’s appearance gets more discordant and tropey each time. I get that she represented Beth’s need to face her past, I just don’t think it worked. We see Beth in all these complicated, nuanced relationships, first with her adopted mom. Then with her male peers who are both helping her with chess and also trying to get her to take care of herself, and she blows them off. I just don’t understand why Jolene showing up and dropping dialogue anvils is what makes the difference. Or rather, I don’t know why they didn’t define Jolene’s character beyond “person who shows up in the nick of time with cash and some really clunky dialogue”.

I think they either needed to develop Jolene’s character and Beth’s relationship with her more in the beginning (and give her way more nuance at the end), or cut the character loose entirely. 

I feel like we could have gotten to the same place with Beth seeing Mr. Shaibel’s funeral notice in the paper.

My only complaint about what’s been one of my favorite dramas this year.

[dubbel zout]

5 minutes ago, kieyra said:

I just don’t understand why Jolene showing up and dropping dialogue anvils is what makes the difference. Or rather, I don’t know why they didn’t define Jolene’s character beyond “person who shows up in the nick of time with cash and some really clunky dialogue”.

Jolene is her oldest friend and the only one who knows and understands what her time at the orphanage was like. Sometimes that's the person who gets through to you. 

I thought their relationship was pretty well drawn. Was Jolene's reappearance something of a deus ex machina? Sure. Did that bother me? No.

[ClareWalks]

21 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Jolene is her oldest friend and the only one who knows and understands what her time at the orphanage was like. Sometimes that's the person who gets through to you. 

She is also the only person in her life at that point who had really known her before her spiral into drugs/alcohol addiction.

[SongbirdHollow]

On 11/5/2020 at 6:09 PM, Kim5689 said:

I really loved this show, but the one thing I would have loved to of seen is a reunion between Beth and Mr Scheibel

We got a symbolic reunion with the street chess man instead. In fact, am I crazy or was he actually the same actor who played Scheibel? 

[DearEvette]

On 11/8/2020 at 12:33 PM, shrewd.buddha said:

The Jolene character felt like such a lazy stereotype when she magically appeared at the end to put Beth back on track.  And why did Jolene, of all the characters, have the sassy, ghetto diction? Marvel Studios has helped make the "best friend who is a minority" such a cliché that it is almost offensive. These characters are always super chill, worldly and are always ready with some wry observation about 'crazy white folk'.  I believe writers can do better than that. 

I think the issue is that we see Jolene early on and then don't see her again during Beth's chess years so it does seem like she magically appears.  But if you think about it, the last two episode featured several early characters who re-appeared in Beth's life to help her get to Russia and succeed:  Harry and Townes included.  It seems like they were constants in her life more than Jolene but they weren't. 

Also I think Jolene is more complicated than just 'sassy best friend' and I believe the show used the limited time we had with Jolene in the last episode to try to convey it.  She is a black activist so her argot is going to be very different than a bunch of white dudes in the chess world.  She is a college graduate who specifically chose political science as a major because of her burgeoning awareness of black history and activism.  She got herself hired at a white law firm by using big words like 'dichotomy' and 'reprehensible' so they made it clear that she code switches as everyone does but POC tend to do it more consciously.  And finally of all the people in Beth's life it was Jolene who had the money to get her to Russia.   The guys were there to help Beth with her game, but Jolene was the one who was there to help with more practical matters.  But in the end, everyone's purpoe, even going back to Mr. Scheible, was to help Beth get to this point. 

And just the little bit Jolene  was on screen, I thought they did a good job of letting us know that Jolene was very self aware, very much in on the role she is supposed to and will play it as long as it is to her advantage.

Edited November 14, 2020 by DearEvette

[Ohiopirate02]

56 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I think the issue is that we see Jolene early on and then don't see her again during Beth's chess years so it does seem like she magically appears.  But if you think about it, the last two episode featured several early characters who re-appeared in Beth's life to help her get to Russia and succeed:  Harry and Townes included.  It seems like they were constants in her life more than Jolene but they weren't. 

Also I think Jolene is more complicated than just 'sassy best friend' and I believe the show used the limited time we had with Jolene in the last episode to try to convey it.  She is a black activist so her argot is going to be very different than a bunch of white dudes in the chess world.  She is a college graduate who specifically chose political science as a major because of her burgeoning awareness of black history and activism.  She got herself hired at a white law firm by using big words like 'dichotomy' and 'reprehensible' so they made it clear that she code switches as everyone does but POC tend to do it more consciously.  And finally of all the people in Beth's life it was Jolene who had the money to get her to Russia.   The guys were there to help Beth with her game, but Jolene was the one who was there to help with more practical matters.  But in the end, everyone's purpoe, even going back to Mr. Scheible, was to help Beth get to this point. 

And just the little bit Jolene  was on screen, I thought they did a good job of letting us know that Jolene was very self aware, very much in on the role she is supposed to and will play it as long as it is to her advantage.

Well said.  The return of Jolene, and Townes, and Benny, Harry, and the twins all have a thematic purpose as well.  They all show up at the end to show Beth that she is not as alone as what she thinks.  There are people out there who care for Beth, and asking them for help is not a sign of weakness.  

[lucindabelle]

I so wanted to understand more of the backstory.

beth says her mother had money and married into more. And that it was complicated.

so her mom was married?

also, if her mom had a family, how come nobody took her in?

wven if they didn’t learn about her moms death wouldn’t you think they’d find out about her when she starts winning matches?

(also I wondered how her high school kept accepting her sick notes when she’s in the paper for winning tournaments)

what did her mom mean by “a rounding error?”

[Samsnee]

I can’t fathom the artistic decision to not show the final moves on the board and instead crowd shots and just hearing the click of the clock. 
 

So frustrating 

[NaughtyKitty]

Any time I saw Benny on screen, with his floppy blond hair and wispy mustache, all I saw was a young David Spade.  Just me?

[Lathund]

21 hours ago, Samsnee said:

I can’t fathom the artistic decision to not show the final moves on the board and instead crowd shots and just hearing the click of the clock. 
 

So frustrating 

This probably won't help you with your frustration over the artistic decision, but if you'd like to see how the game went then here is an analysis of it. 

[ClareWalks]

40 minutes ago, Lathund said:

This probably won't help you with your frustration over the artistic decision, but if you'd like to see how the game went then here is an analysis of it. 

This was so fascinating, despite my not understanding hardly any of the jargon, LOL! He did a good job of explaining why each move was good or bad.

[Johnny Dollar]

I’m confused by the flashback scenes of Beth and her mother before the suicide. Wasn’t Beth much younger when she was first sent to the orphanage? Wikipedia tells me that there was a five year old version of Beth. Why was it the older Beth in the flashback?