S06.E09: There's Something About Harry

[Mozelle]

Meh. I'll take an over-the-top party for Bravo cameras over Jill's version of staging, which, if you are to believe her, is to manufacture a fight with her friend for the cameras. Except the fool didn't bother to clue in her friend that it was supposedly all for the show. That I find way more egregious than planning a trip or throwing a birthday and/or anniversary bash. (I don't believe Jill about the fight being staged, though. I really do think that she was a jealous hosebeast.)

 

And Heather and Carole can continue to be cool as they'd like. There's no age limit or requirement for it. People are over here loving all things Betty White and it's because, despite being a nonagenarian, she's fucking cool.

[motorcitymom65]

I agree....trying to be cool at their ages, IMO, makes them look like idiots,  They are both way past the age when most people have a desire to be seen as "cool"....it seems so highschoolish.  I don't like loud either.  I don't know how Bravo manages to find the women it does for these shows.

As someone else mentioned, I think that it is getting harder and harder for Bravo to find folks that want to participate in these shows. There were several articles last year about what the producers of the BH show were going through in trying to find quality gals. The scrutiny and press are one thing, the focus during the editing process of trying to provoke drama, and the fact that on many of the shows the gals themselves have tried to personally harm a HW's family or business interest (Ramona, Brandi, Tamra) are another. It is much uglier than it was when these shows first started. 

 

I don't get the charge that Heather and Carole are trying to be cool. I think it is possible that they just actually are cool. IMO Carole is absolutely the coolest HW of all time, based strictly on her career prior/during her marriage.  Sure the cool factor gets ramped up a notch due to the famous families and friends, but all of that is just extra to me. She would be cool without the family (although she would have never been on this show).  She would be cool even if she had never written a best-selling book or fucked Clooney. 

 

Even if they have decided to try to be cool, it is OK with me. It is better than trying to be vicious, dumb, trampy, delusional or just flat-out cunty, as is the case with many of these other gals.  If there was a decision to be made that required them to act like they are something they are not, it is nice that they decided to be shown as smart, loyal, hard-working gals who seem to have their priorities all lined up.  Even if they are not these people, I think it is nice that they think they should be. 

[tulip555]

It's not odd at all if you take into account it was a Bravo party paid by Bravo for a Bravo tv show featuring a Bravo cast member. All filmed as part of a storyline for said Bravo show.

(Carole's a fun girl who's had a rich life and seems to have lots of friends. Something tells me she had a second 50th birthday party).

I agree....not odd at all as it was for the show

[Nanny pants]

When Sonja and her psychic are lunching, the man mentions the "energy" in the restaurant, and Sonja says something about them being so close to the Morgan Library. Poor Sonja...I think that's about as close as she'll ever get to her former "glory days" as doyenne of a family after whom libraries are named. These days there's probably a photo of her at the front desk. with her face in a red circle and line drawn through it diagonally.

[poppygibson]

Oh, Carole, I know you don't like attention or the spotlight or making over yourself; you're just a simple girl with simple tastes who wants to blend into the background...So long as that background includes Spanish moss, rose petals and trained butterflies.

And headless mannequins and 1000 white lights. She was twrling more than Kendra. Instead of hearing Luann and Heather sing, why didn't we get to see something interesting. Like food. Were there fritters or a jambalaya to go along with the theme? I didn't see a single voodoo doll. Singing and speeches bore me. Bring me food.

[tulip555]

Meh. I'll take an over-the-top party for Bravo cameras over Jill's version of staging, which, if you are to believe her, is to manufacture a fight with her friend for the cameras. Except the fool didn't bother to clue in her friend that it was supposedly all for the show. That I find way more egregious than planning a trip or throwing a birthday and/or anniversary bash. (I don't believe Jill about the fight being staged, though. I really do think that she was a jealous hosebeast.)

 

And Heather and Carole can continue to be cool as they'd like. There's no age limit or requirement for it. People are over here loving all things Betty White and it's because, despite being a nonagenarian, she's fucking cool.

I think Betty White and Heather/Carol are in different leagues

I think Aviva just found her new tag line: "Life Without Limbs is Limitless."

That's good!

[ottergirl]

It's like Chekov's Leg.  If you introduce a prosthesis in act one, then that prosthesis must go off by act three.

[Mozelle]

I think Betty White and Heather/Carol are in different leagues

That's good!

 

But I think the charge is about how at their ages shouldn't be acting cool. I don't think there's an age requirement. Like motorcitymom, I think that Heather and Carole simply are cool, and I agree with her that Carole is probably the coolest HW to hit the franchise. I'm just immensely fascinated by her, and I think it has a lot to do with her journalism and writing background. 

 

If they got Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie or Zadie Smith as HWs (they would never, though), I'd be gaga over them, too. They're just the kind of people I think are cool. 

[tulip555]

But I think the charge is about how at their ages shouldn't be acting cool. I don't think there's an age requirement. Like motorcitymom, I think that Heather and Carole simply are cool, and I agree with her that Carole is probably the coolest HW to hit the franchise. I'm just immensely fascinated by her, and I think it has a lot to do with her journalism and writing background. 

 

If they got Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie or Zadie Smith as HWs (they would never, though), I'd be gaga over them, too. They're just the kind of people I think are cool. 

Ok, guess I've misunderstood...thanks, I appreciate the explanation.

[ZaldamoWilder]

But I think the charge is about how at their ages shouldn't be acting cool. I don't think there's an age requirement. Like motorcitymom, I think that Heather and Carole simply are cool, and I agree with her that Carole is probably the coolest HW to hit the franchise. I'm just immensely fascinated by her, and I think it has a lot to do with her journalism and writing background. 

 

If they got Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie or Zadie Smith as HWs (they would never, though), I'd be gaga over them, too. They're just the kind of people I think are cool. 

 

Girl, I'd be shocked if either of these women owned a tv, let alone watch the same mess we do.  Lol.

[Mozelle]

Girl, I'd be shocked if either of these women owned a tv, let alone watch the same mess we do.  Lol.

 

Girl, in my alternate universe they watch it...strictly for research purposes, of course!

[archer1267]

But to only mention the Hos in her toast is odd, imo.

 

 

Those were the friends (or "friends") who were at the Bravo-sponsored party, though. It'd be weird to give a long list of shout-outs to people who weren't there.

[Duke2801]

I agree....trying to be cool at their ages, IMO, makes them look like idiots,  They are both way past the age when most people have a desire to be seen as "cool"....it seems so highschoolish.  I don't like loud either.  I don't know how Bravo manages to find the women it does for these shows.

 

Or maybe they are just being themselves, and they actually are cool. 

Yes!  This is my point.  I'm tired of all the staged events.  The storylines.  Carole's fake parties, Aviva's fake leg toss, Heather's fake drunk, Ramona's fake tears, Sonja's fake ring, Kristen's fake inability to wash lettuce.  Nothing is real.  Yet the viewing public that doesn't read forums, blogs and gossip sites like we do, are expected to be lemmings that believe it all is as Andy is showing us.  Take all the bullshit he/they manufacture at face value.

 

Remember the Real World? The first few seasons were brilliant. Pedro? Puck? THAT was real. "This is the true story...."  Alas, I outgrew RW as they stayed in their 20s while I moved on.  Looks like I'm getting too damn old to appreciate RH who are acting like a bunch of mean teenage girls.  Nothing real about this franchise anymore.

 

Maybe Josh really isn't even a dick!

 

 

I know many of us longtime reality TV watchers- myself included--can't help but be nostalgic for those early, golden years of reality TV. They were amazing!  The first few seasons of the Real World were a thing of beauty.  And season 3?  Nobody could even script scenes that were so dramatic, sad, and poignant.  But the format of reality TV has just changed in those 20+ years, and it's never going to go back to the way it was, unfortunately. 

 

So I just take it for what it's worth: a mindless, sometimes entertaining, sometimes highly aggravating form of entertainment.  If I truly despise the cast, and the format of the show, I just stop watching (like I did with Miami season 1)   

[ryebread]

Even if they have decided to try to be cool, it is OK with me. It is better than trying to be vicious, dumb, trampy, delusional or just flat-out cunty, as is the case with many of these other gals.  If there was a decision to be made that required them to act like they are something they are not, it is nice that they decided to be shown as smart, loyal, hard-working gals who seem to have their priorities all lined up.  Even if they are not these people, I think it is nice that they think they should be. 

I believe there are dozens of clips like this on the cutting room floor.  Showing Heather, Carole and Kristen for the coven of witches that they really are. But Bravo wants us to buy that they are these cool, live-and-let-live chicks so we see what they want us to see. Eh.

 

I think they are all the epitome of cunty in this clip.

 

They're sitting around talking about Aviva (again) and how they'll see her at a party later. 

 

Kristen wants someone to get her liquored up so she can go after Veevs that night. (And, yay, we get to see that ugly face she makes when making fun of someone.  Not surprising she's so vicious, tho.  Remember, Brandi is her best friend.) 

 

Heather says she's not going to get in a tizzy at the party but tells Kristen to "Promise me you're going to say something to her."  I mean, seriously, baby girl. You say you're over her.  Prove it. Get on with your cool, bad ass, entraypanure self.  At the very least, don't encourage Kristen, who you believe is lesser than you, to do your dirty work. 

 

LMAO at Carole at 1:40. Listen and watch her face carefully when she speaks. She talks about how if feels like there's a little more oxygen in the room when Aviva isn't there.  "A little less self righteousness and judgment."  LOL. Carole, can you hear yourself?  The self righteousness and judgment is literally dripping off your overbite.

 

Titled: The Ladies Prepare to See Aviva.  Should be:  The Bitches Plan on Taking Aviva DOWWWWWN. 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-6/videos/the-ladies-prepare-to-see-Aviva

 

ETA:  P.S. Ladies, real friends let friends finish a sentence. At least once.

Edited July 18, 2014 by ryebread

[LotusFlower]

It's like Chekov's Leg.  If you introduce a prosthesis in act one, then that prosthesis must go off by act three.

Love this!

[LotusFlower]

Titled: The Ladies Prepare to See Aviva.  Should be:  The Bitches Plan on Taking Aviva DOWWWWWN. 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-6/videos/the-ladies-prepare-to-see-Aviva .

Heck, if Aviva was in my life for even two minutes let alone two years I'd be strategizing with my friends how to eliminate the toxic.

[ryebread]

Or maybe they are just being themselves, and they actually are cool. 

They probably would be considered cool in high school. Like the "Heathers".  As long as you're one of them, you're safe, but if you're fat or unattractive or not witty or don't have the right clothes, you're toast.  Or even if you are all of the things that they think is cool, one false move and the Head Heather, in this case her name really is Heather! will give it to you good.  She did it to her "great friend", Kristen, in Montana. 

 

I think 'cool' is something else entirely. SOOO not what they're showing us.

 

So I just take it for what it's worth: a mindless, sometimes entertaining, sometimes highly aggravating form of entertainment.  If I truly despise the cast, and the format of the show, I just stop watching

I agree.  I'm still in the Love to Hate category.  Don't despise any of them yet.  Not even Aviva. 

Edited July 18, 2014 by ryebread

[SFoster21]

You can be cunty and still be cool.  Not mutually exclusive.

 

We should all strive for cool in our public lives.   Carole and Heather have both been un-cool during the endless run of non-confrontation confrontations that have occurred this season.    Still, they love their lives, unlike Aviva, Ramona, Sonja and Kristen, so they're fun to be around.  They're accomplished and intelligent and attractive.  Unlike the other four, they are getting laid regularly.  That much is clear.  Ladies are relaxed.

 

Makes em cool to me (and I don't like either of them that well.)

[LotusFlower]

Still, they love their lives, unlike Aviva, Ramona, Sonja and Kristen, so they're fun to be around.  They're accomplished and intelligent and attractive.  Unlike the other four, they are getting laid regularly.  That much is clear.  Ladies are relaxed.

 

Makes em cool to me (and I don't like either of them that well.)

What a great point. I think it explains them well, and it's probably why I like them, too.

[Duke2801]

They probably would be considered cool in high school. Like the "Heathers".  As long as you're one of them, you're safe, but if you're fat or unattractive or not witty or don't have the right clothes, you're toast.  Or even if you are all of the things that they think is cool, one false move and the Head Heather, in this case her name really is Heather! will give it to you good.  She did it to her "great friend", Kristen, in Montana.

 

 

I think this description fits somebody like Ramona more than Heather or Carole.  I just don't see what either of them have said or done that would give the impression that one has to be "thin" or "beautiful" to fit in with them.  Yes, they are slim (or miniscule in Carole's case) but neither of them are traditionally attractive (facially) at all.  OTOH, I think it's their interesting lives and their personalities which make them much more attractive.  

 

As for Heather's behavior that day in Montana? Yes, there was no excusing that.  She acted like an ass.  But an "off" day does not a bitch or terrible person make.  

[LotusFlower]

Oh, Carole, I know you don't like attention or the spotlight or making over yourself; you're just a simple girl with simple tastes who wants to blend into the background...So long as that background includes Spanish moss, rose petals and trained butterflies. One day she'll cut loose and decide to put herself and her wishes first. Can't wait.

Carole's in on the joke. I didn't get it at first, cuz she didn't sell it very well. She was playing her part in the game. Then I realized she was also making fun of Sonja. So it made it all kinds of funny.

[ryebread]

As for Heather's behavior that day in Montana? Yes, there was no excusing that.  She acted like an ass.  But an "off" day does not a bitch or terrible person make.  

I agree with you.  One 'off day' does not a bitch make.  But I can't shake my feeling, and I know I'm the minority,I just can't like her.  I don't like loud people, nor braggarts, nor name droppers.  For me, she's all of these things.  Here she talks about how she grabbed "Jay's" hand (that'd be JayZ to us peons) and put it on her pregnant belly.  And how she's sure that once Beyoncé was preg with Bleu, Jay remembered what it felt like when Heather put his hand on her belly.

 

See, now I can't stand Heather but it's snippets like this that I wish Bravo would show us because this shit is gold and makes her very watchable for me.  Although I'd be giving her the same look, on the constant, that Kristen gives at the very end.

Damn you, Bravo!  Why are you cutting this all out? 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-6/videos/heather-and-joshs-name-dropping-double-date

[Mozelle]

I believe there are dozens of clips like this on the cutting room floor.  Showing Heather, Carole and Kristen for the coven of witches that they really are. But Bravo wants us to buy that they are these cool, live-and-let-live chicks so we see what they want us to see. Eh.

 

I think they are all the epitome of cunty in this clip.

 

They're sitting around talking about Aviva (again) and how they'll see her at a party later. 

 

Kristen wants someone to get her liquored up so she can go after Veevs that night. (And, yay, we get to see that ugly face she makes when making fun of someone.  Not surprising she's so vicious, tho.  Remember, Brandi is her best friend.) 

 

Heather says she's not going to get in a tizzy at the party but tells Kristen to "Promise me you're going to say something to her."  I mean, seriously, baby girl. You say you're over her.  Prove it. Get on with your cool, bad ass, entraypanure self.  At the very least, don't encourage Kristen, who you believe is lesser than you, to do your dirty work. 

 

LMAO at Carole at 1:40. Listen and watch her face carefully when she speaks. She talks about how if feels like there's a little more oxygen in the room when Aviva isn't there.  "A little less self righteousness and judgment."  LOL. Carole, can you hear yourself?  The self righteousness and judgment is literally dripping off your overbite.

 

Titled: The Ladies Prepare to See Aviva.  Should be:  The Bitches Plan on Taking Aviva DOWWWWWN. 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-6/videos/the-ladies-prepare-to-see-Aviva

 

ETA:  P.S. Ladies, real friends let friends finish a sentence. At least once.

 

You mean to tell me that it's entirely unheard of for someone to be less forgiving about someone they dislike? That because they don't like them, the lens under which they view them makes the person seem wrong, wrong, wrong in all that they do? I mean, Carole and Aviva don't like each other. Heather and Aviva don't like each other. Aviva told Kristen to shut the fuck up, and now Kristen and Aviva don't like each other. So, the idea of them being these super beings of sainthood who don't gossip about the chick they don't like seems kind of like a fantasy. It's what people do. Hell, it's what we're doing in these threads every week.

 

Or maybe they are just being themselves, and they actually are cool. 

 

I know many of us longtime reality TV watchers- myself included--can't help but be nostalgic for those early, golden years of reality TV. They were amazing!  The first few seasons of the Real World were a thing of beauty.  And season 3?  Nobody could even script scenes that were so dramatic, sad, and poignant.  But the format of reality TV has just changed in those 20+ years, and it's never going to go back to the way it was, unfortunately. 

 

So I just take it for what it's worth: a mindless, sometimes entertaining, sometimes highly aggravating form of entertainment.  If I truly despise the cast, and the format of the show, I just stop watching (like I did with Miami season 1)   

 

Yes, indeed. I haven't watched RW since maybe the DC season, and even before then I was tuning in sporadically. But gone are the days of people allowing a camera into their lives and not giving a rat's behind about whether they're wearing makeup or if they're on film with bedhead. Everyone is super glossy and slick and camera-ready now. You won't see a Heather B. moment of her taking out her braids on camera, for example. 

[ryebread]

So, the idea of them being these super beings of sainthood who don't gossip about the chick they don't like seems kind of like a fantasy. It's what people do. Hell, it's what we're doing in these threads every week.

Well, yeah we do.  They give us so much to snark about. And I certainly don't blame them for talking behind her back. Although if I'm over someone, I tend to just not engage or discuss.

 

But I've NEVER in my life planned with my friends to get drunk to take someone down.  Nor have I ever encouraged a friend to get drunk and do so.  Smacks of Tamra and Vicki and Naked Wasted.  Not cool at all, imo

[LotusFlower]

But I've NEVER in my life planned with my friends to get drunk to take someone down.  Nor have I ever encouraged a friend to get drunk and do so.  Smacks of Tamra and Vicki and Naked Wasted.  Not cool at all, imo

But you've also never been on a catty, soapy reality tv show, either. (Well, I'm just guessing here!)

It's kinda like what I just wrote in the post above about Carole planning her b-day party. They're in on the joke and they're having fun. It doesn't mean they're faking it - cuz as Andy Cohen said to Tamra when she said she was just "doing her [reality show] job" and he said her job was to be herself -- this is an extension of who they are. Just like Tamra's lying and shit-stirring is a reflection of who she really is.

[motorcitymom65]

Well, yeah we do.  They give us so much to snark about. And I certainly don't blame them for talking behind her back. Although if I'm over someone, I tend to just not engage or discuss.

 

But I've NEVER in my life planned with my friends to get drunk to take someone down.  Nor have I ever encouraged a friend to get drunk and do so.  Smacks of Tamra and Vicki and Naked Wasted.  Not cool at all, imo

Ugh. I am a terrible person.  Looked exactly like the fun conversation I had with my girlfriends last weekend as we prepared to see all the bitches we hated at our 30 year HS reunion.  We were mostly kidding, but we had some fun joking, prodding, and daring each other to say the things we wish we could actually say (we didn't). 

 

I don't think it is that unusual, and I guess the reason it doesn't bother me at all is there is no pretense about how they feel about Aviva. They are not pretending to like her or make her feel comfortable (Tamra and Vicks totally tried to act like they were going to make Gretchen feel welcome, all the while plotting to humiliate her). Aviva won't walk into that party thinking that they are best friends and that she will be welcomed by them. They are talking about her, and I have no doubt that somewhere she is talking about them at the same time. Sounds fair to me. 

Edited July 18, 2014 by motorcitymom65

[jaync]

Let's play devil's advocate and say that Aviva really does have asthma and Heather got all up in her grill with her big, flaring horse nostrils and waving those man hands  to tell her she's a liar. 

In the clip, it doesn't look like Heather is anywhere close to Aviva, much less in her face. And she's not even at the table when the leg goes flying.

 

Funny how the "asthma" or one of her other fifty-eleven ailments doesn't keep Aviva from getting worked up and throwing shit.

 

I just don't see what either of them have said or done that would give the impression that one has to be "thin" or "beautiful" to fit in with them. 

Yeah, I don't recall any behavior from them that would indicate that they're of that mindset; in fact, I'd say it's more of the opposite. Heather seems very aware and accepting that she's no beauty queen or a size zero, and Carole has spoken very affectionately about her very obese grandmother and her humble background.

 

[ryebread]

Yeah, I don't recall any behavior from them that would indicate that they're of that mindset; in fact, I'd say it's more of the opposite.

It's not a stretch for some to believe, that Aviva lies about ALL her ailments, phobias, etc. even though we don't have proof of that. The same goes for me that it's not a stretch to believe that Heather, Carole and Kristen are just like THE Heathers. Can't be proven.  All we have to go on are our instincts. 

 

We were mostly kidding, but we had some fun joking, prodding, and daring each other to say the things we wish we could actually say (we didn't).

But therein lies the difference, motorcitymom.  You didn't.  I guess I'll have to wait and watch what happens next week. My guts, and footage of a flying leg tell me that the Heathers get the results they were going after and planning for.  Yeah, maybe Aviva does something to deserve it but they, like 14 year old gangstas, walk in preparing to throw down.  Can.not.wait.

 

Maybe Heather will enter the party all, "Yo,yo, yo, yo!  Diddy in da house." 

Edited July 18, 2014 by ryebread

[zoeysmom]

So the three ladies gather to once again talk about Aviva.  If you are saying Aviva has mental health issues, Aviva readily admits to mental health issues (phobias), doesn't it make the cool gals kind of assholes for harping on them?  Carole was the voice of reason avoid Aviva if you are forced to be in a situation together.  Although I thought it fake Carole went to George's engagement party-thrown by Aviva.

 

Why Heather annoys me-the endless name dropping.  Good for Kristen for sitting that one out.  Somehow I think Heather will think she somehow has to address Aviva and "take her down" is ridiculous.  What is the point?  The best thing one can do is ignore Aviva if they don't like her.  Heather bringing up Aviva not going to Montana is absurd.  This is the same Heather, who told Aviva about a party, everyone else was invited to and then said I will have to check to see if I will invite you and the day of the party said-nope not invited.  Truly a classless person.  So when Aviva tells them to shove their trip they are somehow offended?  Why? It is almost as if once they ostracized Aviva it isn't good enough until she shows appropriate pain and rejection. Don't kick someone when they are down.  BTW I don't like Aviva and I think ostracizing her was the "real" thing to do.

[LotusFlower]

It's not a stretch for some to believe, that Aviva lies about ALL her ailments, phobias, etc. even though we don't have proof of that. The same goes for me that it's not a stretch to believe that Heather, Carole and Kristen are just like THE Heathers. Can't be proven.  All we have to go on are our instincts. 

 

Huh? So you've decided to call Heather, Carole and Kristen The Heathers, and that's somehow analogous to everyone disbelieving Aviva's ailments? I don't follow the logic, because you're comparing people and stories we see on the show to the various opinions and theories about said people and stories discussed here.

But therein lies the difference, motorcitymom.  You didn't.  I guess I'll have to wait and watch what happens next week. My guts, and footage of a flying leg tell me that the Heathers get the results they were going after and planning for.  Yeah, maybe Aviva does something to deserve it but they, like 14 year old gangstas, walk in preparing to throw down. 

"The Heathers" planned the leg-flying stunt? Please! Only in their dreams. That was all Aviva. (with a possible assist from production).

[ryebread]

"The Heathers" planned the leg-flying stunt? Please! Only in their dreams. That was all Aviva. (with a possible assist from production).

Sigh.  No, they didn't plan the stunt.  They planned on going to a party to hunt for bear and get a reaction from the bear.  Like I said, Who knows. Maybe Aviva starts it all.  We'll have to wait and see.  All I know for sure is that they talk, prior to the party, about going there and being "politely rude", at best and getting tipsy so Kristen can get her 'panties tizzied' at worst. 

Huh? So you've decided to call Heather, Carole and Kristen The Heathers, and that's somehow analogous to everyone disbelieving Aviva's ailments? I don't follow the logic, because you're comparing people and stories we see on the show to the various opinions and theories about said people and stories discussed here.

Now I'm not following you. I'm basing my opinions that the Heathers are hags because of some behaviors I've seen on the show and on video on Bravo's site.

Isn't that what we're basing our disbelief of Aviva's ailments on?

 

(I'm also basing my opinion that Kristen is a Heather based on her relationship with Brandi and her marriage to that tool.)

[FozzyBear]

I think this description fits somebody like Ramona more than Heather or Carole. I just don't see what either of them have said or done that would give the impression that one has to be "thin" or "beautiful" to fit in with them. Yes, they are slim (or miniscule in Carole's case) but neither of them are traditionally attractive (facially) at all. OTOH, I think it's their interesting lives and their personalities which make them much more attractive.

As for Heather's behavior that day in Montana? Yes, there was no excusing that. She acted like an ass. But an "off" day does not a bitch or terrible person make.

Well when Carole met Kristen she did say that her favorite people are beautiful and weird. And no she wasn't talking about inner beauty. Carole also mentioned how important looks are to her when she went to the matchmaker. I've never gotten the impression that Carole or Heather are above appearances. I think they care very much that their friends and lovers look a particular way, they just have a different aesthetic than Ramona and Sonjia or even Luanne.

[tulip555]

I believe there are dozens of clips like this on the cutting room floor.  Showing Heather, Carole and Kristen for the coven of witches that they really are. But Bravo wants us to buy that they are these cool, live-and-let-live chicks so we see what they want us to see. Eh.

 

I think they are all the epitome of cunty in this clip.

 

They're sitting around talking about Aviva (again) and how they'll see her at a party later. 

 

Kristen wants someone to get her liquored up so she can go after Veevs that night. (And, yay, we get to see that ugly face she makes when making fun of someone.  Not surprising she's so vicious, tho.  Remember, Brandi is her best friend.) 

 

Heather says she's not going to get in a tizzy at the party but tells Kristen to "Promise me you're going to say something to her."  I mean, seriously, baby girl. You say you're over her.  Prove it. Get on with your cool, bad ass, entraypanure self.  At the very least, don't encourage Kristen, who you believe is lesser than you, to do your dirty work. 

 

LMAO at Carole at 1:40. Listen and watch her face carefully when she speaks. She talks about how if feels like there's a little more oxygen in the room when Aviva isn't there.  "A little less self righteousness and judgment."  LOL. Carole, can you hear yourself?  The self righteousness and judgment is literally dripping off your overbite.

 

Titled: The Ladies Prepare to See Aviva.  Should be:  The Bitches Plan on Taking Aviva DOWWWWWN. 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-6/videos/the-ladies-prepare-to-see-Aviva

 

ETA:  P.S. Ladies, real friends let friends finish a sentence. At least once.

I like your thinking

[Lola16]

 

tells Kristen to "Promise me you're going to say something to her."

That sounded like Carole to me.  Could be wrong.

[LotusFlower]

Sigh.  No, they didn't plan the stunt.  They planned on going to a party to hunt for bear and get a reaction from the bear.  Like I said, Who knows. Maybe Aviva starts it all.  We'll have to wait and see.  All I know for sure is that they talk, prior to the party, about going there and being "politely rude", at best and getting tipsy so Kristen can get her 'panties tizzied' at worst. 

But if Aviva planned the limb toss in advance, then they were really all in it together. You can't be blamed for provoking a bear if the bear is lying in wait. Well, I guess you can, but with less sympathy!

Now I'm not following you. I'm basing my opinions that the Heathers are hags because of some behaviors I've seen on the show and on video on Bravo's site.

Isn't that what we're basing our disbelief of Aviva's ailments on?

By following the discussion, it appeared that you were calling Heather and Carole Mean Girls based not on their on-screen behavior, but on your assumption that they were the kind of girls in high school that picked on kids who weren't "cool" like them. And one or two posters replied that they hadn't seen them exhibit that kind of behavior on the show; in fact, sometimes the opposite. You then wrote back that it was just your instinct. Which is different than basing opinions on the HW's from what we see on the show.

And btw, Aviva's phobias aren't conjecture. She told us she had them.

[ryebread]

And btw, Aviva's phobias aren't conjecture. She told us she had them.

Which reminds me....LOL.  (Damn, I'm getting nothing done today.)  She did tell us she had them! All these Hos are always saying to just own it.  Aviva tells us that she has phobias (can anyone remind me what they are aside from 'fear of heights'?) She owns that she's got some tendencies and health issues.  Yet these bitches won't believe her.  Now, how is it that we, and they, have come to the conclusion that she's lying? Heather says it's 'bullshit'.  How do they/we know she doesn't have asthma or fear of lemons or whatever she/they are claiming she is or is not fearful of?

 

You then wrote back that it was just your instinct. Which is different than basing opinions on the HW's from what we see on the show.

Assuming you dislike Aviva. Or Sonja.  And I really don't know that but let's say you do.  Aren't your instincts about them based on what you're seeing on the show?  Without the show we'd have no instincts about them.  Oy.  Okay, let's just agree to disagree.   My head hurts. :-)

I like your thinking

Wanna do lunch?  Table for 2.

Edited July 18, 2014 by ryebread

[jaync]

 All we have to go on are our instincts.

That's not really true, given there are numerous episodes and scenes that help form the perceptions of their characters.

 

Maybe all of Aviva's illnesses and phobias are real (and I've never said they all aren't). However, it's more than curious how some of them come and go, and are only an issue for Aviva when she needs an excuse for not filming with the other women as a group for any extended period of time.

 

And, of course the other women are going to talk about Aviva sometimes because if not, we'd forget the turbotwat is even on the show.

[ryebread]

That's not really true, given there are numerous episodes and scenes that help form the perceptions of their characters.

 

Maybe all of Aviva's illnesses and phobias are real (and I've never said they all aren't). However, it's more than curious how some of them come and go, and are only an issue for Aviva when she needs an excuse for not filming with the other women as a group for any extended period of time.

 

And, of course the other women are going to talk about Aviva sometimes because if not, we'd forget the turbotwat is even on the show.

Yes, I agree. My OP didn't clarify that 'all we have are our instincts based on what we see'.  Otherwise, like I stated above, we'd have nothing to go on. 

 

Anyhooters, I helicoptered over the Grand Canyon last summer.  No problem.  But had a freak out panic attack when I looked down from the top of a bungee tower.  I wouldn't say I have a fear of small spaces but certain ones will make me nervous.  When I'm in one on my hands and knees or belly, for instance.

 

I don't like loud environments.  I get a little anxious.  But gimme tickets to the Stones or any other packed house of a group I want to see and I'm all good.  My point?  For me, my phobias - if you can call them that - can come and go, too.  As women, we're networks of hormones and brain patterns that are changing constantly.  I make no apologies for that so I wonder why Aviva has to, either.

 

And hell, while I'm at it, Heather may have balls of steel but it is really, really possible that as the last one to go down the side of that cliff, she had her own moment of panic right before she jumped. And that would be fine! But we'll never know, because Bravo won't show any cracks in Heather's armor YET.  But would Heather ever, ever 'own that'?  My instincts based on what I've seen on the show tell me no fucking way.

 

Something tells me that's why she quickly pointed for Lu and Kristen to go first (did anybody else see her do that?) so they couldn't witness a little bit of healthy fear in their Fearless Leader.

[LotusFlower]

Which reminds me....LOL.  (Damn, I'm getting nothing done today.)  She did tell us she had them! All these Hos are always saying to just own it.  Aviva tells us that she has phobias (can anyone remind me what they are aside from 'fear of heights'?) She owns that she's got some tendencies and health issues.  Yet these bitches won't believe her.  Now, how is it that we, and they, have come to the conclusion that she's lying? Heather says it's 'bullshit'.  How do they/we know she doesn't have asthma or fear of lemons or whatever she/they are claiming she is or is not fearful of?

 

Well, one way to explain the difference is this: a phobia is a mental issue, and since Aviva admits to having many phobias, then it's not really a stretch to assume her other jib-jab stems from a mental neurosis. Is it possible she really has asthma? Of course. But since it appeared to come out of the blue , she used the inhaler wrong, she always used excuses to get out of doing things, etc., etc., then I can see why they (and we) are so dubious. Or, as Heather said, her symptoms are real, but they're brought on by a psychosomatic thing going on. Again - a connection to her admitted neuroses.

Assuming you dislike Aviva. Or Sonja.  And I really don't know that but let's say you do.  Aren't your instincts about them based on what you're seeing on the show?  Without the show we'd have no instincts about them.  Oy.  Okay, let's just agree to disagree.   My head hurts. :-)

Your assumption is correct. I dislike Aviva. And Sonja. And yes, my dislike is based on what we see on the show, and other places. As opposed to how I imagine they were in high school. But I'm sorry if I'm making your head hurt. Or are you faking it to discontinue this discussion? (kidding! Ducks to avoid a flying limb).

[FozzyBear]

That's not really true, given there are numerous episodes and scenes that help form the perceptions of their characters.

Maybe all of Aviva's illnesses and phobias are real (and I've never said they all aren't). However, it's more than curious how some of them come and go, and are only an issue for Aviva when she needs an excuse for not filming with the other women as a group for any extended period of time.

And, of course the other women are going to talk about Aviva sometimes because if not, we'd forget the turbotwat is even on the show.

Aviva and Shannon from the OC remind me of each other. I think both probably have some legitimate medical issues regarding anxiety and stress. I also think both are spoiled little rich girls who have never had to "just deal" in their entire lives. So treatable issues take over because neither one of them has ever been in a do or die circumstance about managing their issues. Neither has ever had to take a job or live in a building or do something for their kids that triggers their phobias and learn copping strategies. If something bothers them they are in a position to not do it or pay someone else to do it.

[LotusFlower]

Aviva and Shannon from the OC remind me of each other. I think both probably have some legitimate medical issues regarding anxiety and stress. I also think both are spoiled little rich girls who have never had to "just deal" in their entire lives. So treatable issues take over because neither one of them has ever been in a do or die circumstance about managing their issues.

I couldn't agree more. They don't call it sheltered for nothing.

[ryebread]

Your assumption is correct. I dislike Aviva. And Sonja. And yes, my dislike is based on what we see on the show, and other places. As opposed to how I imagine they were in high school. 

Lotus, you're killing me here.  I never, not once said they were Heathers in high school. They were probably delightful in HS. But based on my instinct which are based on my observations from Bravo (!!) I think they act like Heathers NOW.  

 

If only you were my walking partner.  My current one only watches the shows. No forums or twitter following for her.  She takes Brandi, for instance, at face value.  Didn't see the tampon pictures.  Nor reads any of the garbage Brandi spews.  So she likes her.  It's no fun to debate with my walking partner.  At least if you were by my side, instead of a stranger online, we would be walking.  Instead I can feel my ass getting wider by the minute for all the time I spend here.

[motorcitymom65]

I understand what Ryebread means about poking the bear, and I hope they don't do that. I don't mind if my gals finish a fight, but would prefer they not start one. Let the crazy come to you. The way Bravo has set this up so far is with Sonja being the one to poke the bear. For whatever reason, she is lying, and has thrown all the other gals - including her best friend Ramona - under the bus. Telling Aviva that they talked about her the whole time they were in Montana. We saw them discuss her for about 2 minutes. In the previews we see Sonja getting Aviva more in a frenzy about the girls thinking she is faking her issues. This makes it look like Aviva is already irritated about the conversations and wants to dramatically prove them wrong. I hope this is the way it goes down - that she is the one who confronts first. We shall see.

 

Regarding Aviva and her phobias, she would do well to remember who supported her back when she was actually showing symptoms. When she was afraid to fly over to St. Barths, it was Carole and Heather who were rooting for her. They were genuinely excited to find out that Reid would be bringing her over. If the choice was for Aviva to come with Reid or not come at all, they picked the option that meant their friend got to come on vacation with them. Drunk and Drunker over in the other room felt differently. If the same list of options were open to them, then Aviva just needed to keep  her ass at home. They wanted Reid to go to a hotel, and even looked into renting a place for the two of them, because having a man there (at least one that wouldn't do anal out on the front lawn) was unacceptable to them. Aviva was horrible to them no question (but she was also right on the money. White Trash indeed), but they were not supportive of her like Carole and Heather were.  The remained supportive of her until she went after Carole. Big mistake on her part. 

 

I have no idea if she has phobias. What I know is that these gals spend a lot of time together. 85 hours of film for every hour we see. They all see her a lot more than we do. Several of them have mentioned the fact that she never mentions her phobias anymore, where last year they were all she talked about. One of them (I actually think it was Sonja) talked about being surprised because she got on an elevator with her and Aviva didn't bat an eyelash, where last year she needed a pep talk and someone to hold her hand before she could envision such a journey. They just seem convenient, and I think the ladies all know something about this that we don't. Carole has gone after her hard in her blogs about this very topic, and I cannot see her doing that if she didn't feel extremely confident that Aviva is for the most part a liar. 

[jaync]

But we'll never know, because Bravo won't show any cracks in Heather's armor YET.

How exactly is that known? Maybe there just simply isn't footage along those lines of note to show. Anyway, I'm sure there are lots of people who don't like or care for Heather, so obviously she isn't being sugarcoated so as everyone will share the same favorable opinion of her.

 

But would Heather ever, ever 'own that'?

Sure. IIRC, Heather never claimed to be an expert at rappelling. She said she went rock climbing (not the same) a lot in her twenties, but never on as high of a mountain as there in Montana.

[LotusFlower]

Mototcitymom - Great post. I agree with it all. I read that, too, about Aviva's phobias -so prominent in her introductory season - suddenly disappearing. I think Carole said that when she asked Aviva about it, Aviva responded with:"that was last season". She actually said that! And it's a wonder why people think Aviva is a nutcase and a liar?!

Ryebread - it's just hard because you seem to keep changing the argument. But this might make you feel better - I went from being a (sort of) Brandi fan to a (not sort of) Brandi detractor, so we can be on the same page there whenever that gets going! Deal?

[Lisin]

Hey gang, I think we're veering a little off topic here, only in that I think we've started discussing the First Look and previews for next week almost more than this episode. For talk about the First Look please go to that topic or the Episode topic which I just opened. Thank you! 

[SomeJabroni]

 

If only you were my walking partner.  My current one only watches the shows. No forums or twitter following for her.  She takes Brandi, for instance, at face value.  Didn't see the tampon pictures.  Nor reads any of the garbage Brandi spews.  So she likes her.  It's no fun to debate with my walking partner.  At least if you were by my side, instead of a stranger online, we would be walking.  Instead I can feel my ass getting wider by the minute for all the time I spend here.

 

Rye - That's funny; my 'buddy' not only likes Brandi, but Theresa G. from NJ.  But she makes great lemon bars, so I let it slide.  :)

 

OT - I agree with the idea that Heather and Carole are 'in on the joke' and I rather like that, especially the way Carole pulls it off.  Heather - eh, she grates a little with the name dropping and such, but if I actually knew famous people and was on a TV show to showcase my fabulous life, I'd probably be obnoxious that way too.  Overall, they're my favorites right now.  But then again, I used to like Ramona and Sonja.

 

Aviva.  Wow.  That bundle of neurojoy makes me wish I were still in grad school, looking for a case study. 

[islandgal140]

Sonja needs to stop spending money on charlatans. In her blog she referenced about 3 that she frequents. Isn't this chick in frigging bankruptcy? Why is she wasting money on this? Yet her townhouse is falling down around her ears as she segregates her panties by vacay destinations. Did any of these people foresee Old Man Morgan leaving her ass? Did they forsee her ass de-frauding people and going broke?

 

That ring Harry gave to Sonja just left me wondering if Harry found it in a crackerjack box or did he send away for it after he had collected a certain amount of box tops. WTF!?!

 

Eboost is a drink?!? Shows how much I was paying attention. I thought it was some kind of website or tech product. Color me surprised.

 

The party was nice but the episode was a snooze. I feel like I am watching this show more out of habit than actual enjoyment. During the past few episodes I keep reaching for either my phone or my tablet. - a sure sign of my boredom. I can see and understand why the ratings are down. Usually the 1st seasons of all the HWs show tend to be the best, with the exception of Miami. YMMV. So I don't need manufactured drama.  I think what is missing is the 'real' and the lives of the wives.

 

The NY group, with the exception of Kristin, have gotten down to a science the art of compartmentalizing their lives and deciding what they will and won't show us. They all refuse to show us any ugly, unpleasant or embarrassing parts of their lives. The Countess was the pioneer of this and the rest have followed in her footsteps. The fact that Mario's cheating was kept off the show just goes to highlight this. Heather did give us a sliver when she went into some of the medical issue of her son Jax. However, I was left wondering how real that was because it was later revealed that they opted not to go through with it. Seriously, I feel like I know very little about Heather aside from her son being sick and that she owns yummy tummy. I can't even recall what the inside of her apartment looks like. So with all this compartmentalization we are left with nonsensical event after nonsensical event and manufactured drama.

 

I don't mind the trips, but this last one to Montana was the worst trip out of every franchise I ever had to suffer through.

 

 

Aviva and Shannon from the OC remind me of each other. I think both probably have some legitimate medical issues regarding anxiety and stress. I also think both are spoiled little rich girls who have never had to "just deal" in their entire lives. So treatable issues take over because neither one of them has ever been in a do or die circumstance about managing their issues.

 

Shannon's issues don't stop her from showing up to work though.  Shannon hasn't missed an event as far as I can tell and she was/is able to board a plan and go places without making a huge production about it and expecting banners. Aviva seems a slave to her issues. I think whatever Aviva's phobia's are more severe and life limiting than Shannon's. Shannon maybe trying to address her issues with that charlatan Dr. Moon but all I see Aviva doing is going to doctors to get diagnoses and notes to excuse her out of things. 

Edited July 18, 2014 by islandgal140

[kassa]

Love loved loved the clip of Heather/Kristen's husband name dropping.  Because I have noticed that Heather will work in a "Puff Daddy" reference any time she can  (most recently at Carole's party).  But that exchange in the restaurant was Golden.  Hope they save it for the missing clips/reunion show.

 

We get it, Heather.  You knew black people once. 

[Higgins]

Well when Carole met Kristen she did say that her favorite people are beautiful and weird. And no she wasn't talking about inner beauty. Carole also mentioned how important looks are to her when she went to the matchmaker. I've never gotten the impression that Carole or Heather are above appearances. I think they care very much that their friends and lovers look a particular way, they just have a different aesthetic than Ramona and Sonjia or even Luanne.

How ironic because both women, Carole and Heather, are less than attractive and that's being kind.