S05.E08: Clap Back!

[ladle]

I've read a few times that Shea acted "entitled" to the crown this season, and, watching the season, I just didn't see that.  Those of you who feel that way, are there specific examples of things she did or said that gave you that impression?  I'm honestly wondering.  

The PTSD comments were definitely eye-roll worthy, but to me, saying "I have PTSD about losing last time" is not the same as saying "I am entitled to win this time."  Also, as she lost two close family members around the same time as Petalgate, I'm inclined to cut her a smidgen of slack for the "trauma" comments.  (Even though, yes, I was rolling my eyes too.) 

Juju was my favorite of the season, but she didn't really sell the "Clap Back" routine, and that's the game.  I don't like those final challenges but, again, that's the game.  And none of the three of them are really stellar lip synchers, IMO.  I think it would have been much more interesting if each finalist had just been given a certain amount of time to do a show in the style of her choosing.  But that wouldn't be a promotional tie-in for Ru's music.

And I don't even really like Alexis, but I felt so bad for her!  What went down with India was really stinky.  

[Jrae9233]

On 7/25/2020 at 3:41 PM, 853fisher said:

I could probably have been happy with any of the three winnings, although Cracker would've been my bottom preference.  I didn't think the conclusion was as foregone as many others do, but maybe I'm kidding myself.  Either way, Shea did well.  I hope she is not targeted for abuse on the Internet, as so often seems to happen with the black queens.

I don't remember them having done this kind of runway with the eliminated contestants in the past.  That was fun.  20 minutes of more of the boring draaaama, mostly India's, was not.  I lost interest like four times and clicked over to do something else, almost forgetting the window was still open in the end.  Meh.

Netflix, by the way, spoiled the result for UK viewers by featuring the coronation as their thumbnail for the episode.  Having had several finales spoiled for me as a west coast viewer by east coast fans, or on more than one occasion Drag Race's own Facebook page, I feel their pain.

They already have started the "she only won because she is black." And saying she stole it from JuJu. I like JuJu because she is naturally funny, but her drag has always left me feeling "meh." However, her last look was everything and I hope she starts bringing that to stage. But the Fandom is nasty and racist as can be.

As far as the pity storyline for Shea, people are only mentioning her losing and not the part that she lost her sister and father during the same time. She was an emotional mess and the racism all the black queens deal with is a lot, and she wasn't going to let this slip by.

 

I have never cared for Cracker and still feel this way. 

[fraykis]

I love JuJu and like Cracker, but I am happy that Shea won.

With that said, I'd like to take my first post in this Forum to talk about the season and AS in general.  I think this series really fell off the cliff with AS3 because (A) I didn't like past winners or previous AS contestants being allowed to compete again (how many chances do you get?) and (B) the lip sync winner getting to vote out the bottom queen gimmick should have been retired after AS2 (contestants should advance on merit...the basis of AS is top-tier competitors achieving the title because they earn it, not because they were friendly/clever/sneaky enough to not get the chop from the others).

AS1 came after S4 and AS2 came after S8.  Just imagine what could have been if this had been AS3 after S12.  For example, we could have had this lineup:  

1. Shangela
2. BenDeLaCreme
3. Kennedy Davenport
4. Trixie Mattel
5. Naomi Smalls
6. Valentina
7. Shea Coulee
8. Trinity The Tuck
9. Miz Cracker
10. Monet X Change

Imagine what an amazing contest that would have been...all killer, no filler.  Ah, well.  TPTB are in it to make money, and we keep watching these things, so why not put one out every year or so with mid-level queens and a few superlative queens sprinkled in.  No matter that it dilutes the concept of "All-Stars" and runs the risk of oversaturation. 

Just my $0.02.  Hope everyone is staying safe!  🙂

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by fraykis
fixed spelling

[Not4Me]

Jujubee’s runway outfit was killer, she definitely stepped her fashion game up even in the lip sync. Unfortunately I felt she was kind of lost in the final lip sync even though that was strongest outfit of the three. I want a Juju series, crowned be damned!

Shea’s lip sync wasn’t her best either, I thought the robot movements in the beginning were out of place (and yes I get that Janelle Monae does her android alter-ego, but for some reason I wasn’t feeling it in this interpretation) and the top of her outfit was ill-fitting enough that her non-existent chest nearly came out a few times; she would’ve benefitted from breast padding because the top looked messy. Her Clap Back performance was the best out of the three by miles, but I didn’t like the hanging pieces of green hair strands in the front, it made the wig look messy. Details, gurl!

Cracker’s lip sync was the most entertaining  of the three. It was also her least awkward lip sync of the season.

We should’ve had more of Mariah’s salty commentary and we’re deprived of Derrick over India, ugh! Loved Ongina’s runway!

All in all, Shea’s win was the right choice considering her track record, I just wish both she and Jujubee didn’t have a tepid season to work with. I’m so over the canned scripting in the show.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Not4Me

[DisneyBoy]

On 7/24/2020 at 10:00 PM, Marmiarmo said:

I loved all three of these queens and thought I wouldn’t be unhappy no matter who won...and I’m not, exactly.  But hearing Shea continue to talk about how she had PTSD from losing a reality show contest kind of made me want anybody but her to win.  I get it, the loss hurt.  But if that loss was traumatic enough to put you into therapy and give you PTSD, then I don’t think you belong on this show.  Shea is fricking gorgeous and super talented, but after all of that, I was seriously pulling for Juju hardcore.

Couldn't have said it better. Brava!

I get that Shea was honestly feeling all of that, but yikes....this isn't about therapy or making you feel better. You're already a great performer. Stop milking this pain! I can't root for you.

This show is about joy and escape and fun. Juju was all that. Jujubee gave a hell of a great final look. All season, Cracker gave us groans and Shea gave us sobbing.

Honestly I'm disappointed in them. Juju shone bright.

After now three unsatisfying seasons of All Stars, I'm pretty much over this show. I thought the assassin angle would improve it, but once I saw Kennedy throw in the towel, that was the end. Gimmee a break.

[swanpride]

6 hours ago, Jrae9233 said:

As far as the pity storyline for Shea, people are only mentioning her losing and not the part that she lost her sister and father during the same time. She was an emotional mess and the racism all the black queens deal with is a lot, and she wasn't going to let this slip by.

That is on Shea, though. She was the one who kept bringing up the rose petal moment and only explained once everything connected to it. And she really did herself a disservice, because it does come off as a pity win now.

 

2 hours ago, Not4Me said:

All in all, Shea’s win was the right choice considering her track record, I just wish both she and Jujubee didn’t have a tepid season to work with. I’m so over the canned scripting in the show.

Actually, Shea had the worst track record of the three. If you go by wins, Cracker had three, she had only two. If you go by "who has been in the bottom/the top more often", then Juju had the best track record.

 

Regarding Alexis: the whole thing with India was nasty, but considering the aggressive mind games Alexis played with Cracker at the start of the season plus the fact that she actually did try to get Shea out of the race early on (even if she didn't campaign for it), I have a hard time to feel sorry for Alexis. I am just happy that Derrick was vindicated and it was shown that her view on India wasn't just pettiness.

[Lois Sandborne]

On 7/25/2020 at 3:03 AM, swanpride said:

A good twist would have been her not winning again (and yes, I know it would be kind of cruel, I am speaking strictly on which narrative would have more satisfying for the audience). The drama is, after all, part of what the show is supposed to deliver and there is really zero suspense if All Stars continues to be a show to reward supposedly "robbed" queens.

A good twist and satisfying end to all narratives would have been Shea losing, but being able to do so and accept it healthily, as one of 100 natural potential conclusions when you compete on a cutthroat reality show, regardless of your skill; Juju finally triumphing in a nod to how much she has grown; and Cracker cementing her place as a queen to be reckoned with. I say this as someone who loves Shea, and is happy for her win. It was a lackluster season capped by an anticlimactic finale, just basically waiting for the show to crown her.

Loved seeing Ongina again, and I hope looking fabulous on the final runway gave her drag self-esteem a good boost.

[swanpride]

Exactly!!!

And may I mention how much I still love Ongina's little hat? She should always wear a variation of it.

[Blakeston]

15 hours ago, ladle said:

I've read a few times that Shea acted "entitled" to the crown this season, and, watching the season, I just didn't see that.  Those of you who feel that way, are there specific examples of things she did or said that gave you that impression?  I'm honestly wondering.  

The PTSD comments were definitely eye-roll worthy, but to me, saying "I have PTSD about losing last time" is not the same as saying "I am entitled to win this time." 

I think the comments about Shea's entitlement refer mostly to her feeling entitled to win season nine - not this season of All Stars.

[peachmangosteen]

14 hours ago, Jrae9233 said:

As far as the pity storyline for Shea, people are only mentioning her losing and not the part that she lost her sister and father during the same time. She was an emotional mess and the racism all the black queens deal with is a lot, and she wasn't going to let this slip by.

That wasn't brought up though outside of that 1 time. It was always about 'the rose petals.' I wish she would have brought that up more. But maybe it was too painful to talk about so she was just using 'the rose petals' to keep from having to go deeper into her pain.

10 hours ago, Not4Me said:

I want a Juju series, crowned be damned!

YES!

[Not4Me]

8 hours ago, swanpride said:

Actually, Shea had the worst track record of the three. If you go by wins, Cracker had three, she had only two. If you go by "who has been in the bottom/the top more often", then Juju had the best track record.

I look at Shea’s track record more in the sense that she’s consistently fierce in my book, she‘s had a few mild missteps, but she’s a winner in my heart!

I feel the producers were overplaying and hyping her “PTSD” based off a few quotes because they lacked the “drama” needed for the season. I think Shea is just a highly competitive player and is very matter-of-fact about it, much like Jujubee or Alexis. She’s talented and shows excellent sportsmanship, so I’m happy with her win if they couldn’t award Jujubee the crown.

[swanpride]

Honestly, I don't get the notion that Shea was somehow the forerunner for season 9, because I actually perceived Sasha as the forerunner, not her.

[BloggerAloud]

I know people seem to dislike Shea talking about the rose petals but seem to act like she just came up with this topic. They all have story producers and clearly people are asking her about it in the talking heads so if people have that much of a problem, that's a production issue.

And I get why she would be super devastated by it. Up to that point, she would've won her season going into the finale. But the rose petals permanently altered the course of Drag Race.

[30 Helens]

11 hours ago, swanpride said:

And may I mention how much I still love Ongina's little hat? She should always wear a variation of it.

I mentioned previously that Ongina was my original fave queen, and part of it had to do with that adorable little hat. She is still gorgeous and charming, all these years later, and I wish we had seen more of her.

42 minutes ago, BloggerAloud said:

I know people seem to dislike Shea talking about the rose petals but seem to act like she just came up with this topic. They all have story producers and clearly people are asking her about it in the talking heads so if people have that much of a problem, that's a production issue.

Yes!! I was just about to post something similar. I know enough about reality shows to realize producers want to create soundbites that correspond with the storyline they want. Clearly, Shea’s storyline was predetermined to be one of redemption and achieving a dream deferred, so of course they’re going to ask her about the rose petals over and over and over again. What is she supposed to do, not answer? 

Edited July 27, 2020 by 30 Helens

[Blakeston]

To be fair, Shea chose to put rose petals on one of her outfits as a specific reference to Sasha's victory, and then wore a wig for the final lip sync that was based on Sasha's rose petal wig. She seemed to want the "Shea triumphs over the rose petals" story as much as the producers did.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Blakeston

[swanpride]

Yeah, if it were just something which got mentioned in the talking heads, I would say "okay, they asked her about it". But she specifically brought two runway look which referenced the rose petals and brought it up in the challenges pretty much at every opportunity. It was basically the cow pattern or the sponge of the season, and got old just as fast.

[Stardancer Supreme]

2 hours ago, BloggerAloud said:

I know people seem to dislike Shea talking about the rose petals but seem to act like she just came up with this topic. They all have story producers and clearly people are asking her about it in the talking heads so if people have that much of a problem, that's a production issue.

And I get why she would be super devastated by it. Up to that point, she would've won her season going into the finale. But the rose petals permanently altered the course of Drag Race.

The rose petals only became the focus simply because other people weaponized them against Shea.  I'm sure she would love to not talk about them anymore.  I wouldn't want the storyline producers to pick at the family loss trauma, so yeah let's talk about the rose petals people keep tossing at me. 

[Sew Sumi]

5 minutes ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

The rose petals only became the focus simply because other people weaponized them against Shea.  I'm sure she would love to not talk about them anymore.  I wouldn't want the storyline producers to pick at the family loss trauma, so yeah let's talk about the rose petals people keep tossing at me. 

Then how do you explain her own rose petal costume? She played a part in this.

[Not4Me]

51 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Then how do you explain her own rose petal costume? She played a part in this.

But what drag queen isn’t self-referential and occasionally meta in their work? So Shea decided to take the rose petals and turn it on it’s head and incorporate as a theme in her outfits, probably in response from the immature Drag Race fans who constantly kept roasting her about it. Beyond that, I don’t think it was as deep as the production wanted us to believe. 

I’m more turned off by RuPaul using the workroom check-ins to bring up painful family memories when the conversation didn’t really ask for that personal info to be divulged for ratings. She had every queen crying!

[Stardancer Supreme]

3 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Then how do you explain her own rose petal costume? She played a part in this.

Shea incorporated rose petals in 1 runway look this entire season.  She was directed by Ross Matthews to incorporate talking about them in her standup.  I can see Shea milking them if she came into the werkroom in a rose outfit and trailed petals everywhere she went, talking constantly about rose petals. 

She explained why rose petals are triggering to her (fans and haters throwing them at her at every event) and a RDR sister threw them at her in a challenge. 

I don't feel like Shea was playing this up to parlay into a "pity' win.  

 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Stardancer Supreme
Added more stuff.

[hilaryvm]

I don't think Shea was undeserving of the win, but I would have preferred Juju or Cracker instead.

I agree that it seemed like Shea felt she should have won her season and would have if not for the rose petals.  It just rubs me the wrong way (same as Richard Blais, mr. "I was supposed to win season 4 of top chef").  It takes away from the winner of that season and while she was one of the top queens of the season, I felt that Sasha was the frontrunner of the season. 

Everyone on this all stars season had lost their original season (and in Alexis and Juju's cases, multiple seasons).  So why was it so much worse for her to have lost than everyone else? 

[BloggerAloud]

1 hour ago, hilaryvm said:

I don't think Shea was undeserving of the win, but I would have preferred Juju or Cracker instead.

I agree that it seemed like Shea felt she should have won her season and would have if not for the rose petals.  It just rubs me the wrong way (same as Richard Blais, mr. "I was supposed to win season 4 of top chef").  It takes away from the winner of that season and while she was one of the top queens of the season, I felt that Sasha was the frontrunner of the season. 

Everyone on this all stars season had lost their original season (and in Alexis and Juju's cases, multiple seasons).  So why was it so much worse for her to have lost than everyone else? 

Shea won four challenges on her season so I don't know how she was not the front runner of the season. Like you can prefer one of the other folks to her for a variety of reasons but just on like track record alone, she was legit the front runner of the show. Her loss was a lot more shocking compared to say Jujubee or Alexis. Jujubee hadn't won a challenge on her season and Alexis was on Raja's season, who pretty much won the moment she walked through the door. Shea's loss showed that getting to the finale no longer guaranteed your win because the finale took such huge importance. And it would be argued that season 10 and 11 suffered from that because girls took the wrong lessons away from the Sasha/Shea lip sync because yes Sasha had roses/surprise, but ruveals are nothing if they aren't part of a large lip sync narrative. That's why Sasha beat Shea. The roses helped tell a dynamic lip sync story.

[swanpride]

Gigi also had a lot of wins and still wasn't considered the forerunner. Being the forerunner is not just about winning, it is mostly about how often you are in the top three and how memorable your moments in the top war. Shea did well, but Sasha was right beside her the whole time (in the Morning Show challenge quite literally), AND she had the more distinctive drag. Shea was also popular, but not an absolute fan favourite. She was a possible candidate for the win, but the notion that she was a forerunner is mostly based on the fact that she was known to be a great dancer, while Sasha was an unknown regarding lip syncs.

And Jujube is easily the queen which ended up in the top most often without winning. She is extremely popular with the audience, which shows yet again that success at drag race is not just about walking away with the crown. 

[AdorkableWitch]

I really feel the Shea/Rose Petals thing was more producer driven than anything else. The producers found a sore spot and kept picking and picking at it. 

[Not4Me]

I’m just happy that Jujubee was given a decent enough All Stars season to shine while erasing the horror that was All Stars 1!

[RoxiP]

I was Team Juju all season long but I don't think that Shea is an unworthy winner and quite honestly I think she was the star of the last lip sync, and definitely the star of the group number.  

[Blakeston]

Speaking of Shea being entitled....

I'm sorry to say that Shea is spreading around some really gross anti-mask rhetoric. You can read more about it here, if you want.

To put it briefly, she didn't wear a mask at her victory party. When photo evidence of that went public, people called her out abit. She could have responded by just saying, "Yeah, I got carried away on the night of my big win. Everyone should wear a mask!" But instead she's digging in, insisting that she "earned" the right to go maskless.

And this is someone who claims her cousin died of COVID! Damn it, Shea! I thought you were one of the smartest and most socially responsible queens out there. That's one of the reasons I was okay with you winning, even though I thought Jujubee was better.

[funnygirl]

22 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Speaking of Shea being entitled....

I'm sorry to say that Shea is spreading around some really gross anti-mask rhetoric. You can read more about it here, if you want.

To put it briefly, she didn't wear a mask at her victory party. When photo evidence of that went public, people called her out abit. She could have responded by just saying, "Yeah, I got carried away on the night of my big win. Everyone should wear a mask!" But instead she's digging in, insisting that she "earned" the right to go maskless.

And this is someone who claims her cousin died of COVID! Damn it, Shea! I thought you were one of the smartest and most socially responsible queens out there. That's one of the reasons I was okay with you winning, even though I thought Jujubee was better.

Narcissism is blinding. 

[belligerent]

On 7/27/2020 at 3:49 PM, Blakeston said:

To be fair, Shea chose to put rose petals on one of her outfits as a specific reference to Sasha's victory, and then wore a wig for the final lip sync that was based on Sasha's rose petal wig. She seemed to want the "Shea triumphs over the rose petals" story as much as the producers did.

She also referenced Sasha's "Category Is" lyrics as flavor flav with the "stranger than fiction, better than art," which I didn't realize until I watched it a couple times. I'm sure there's possibly other references she's made to Sasha that I missed or that might not have made it in the final cut.

[AntManBee]

On 7/27/2020 at 8:12 PM, BloggerAloud said:

Shea won four challenges on her season so I don't know how she was not the front runner of the season. Like you can prefer one of the other folks to her for a variety of reasons but just on like track record alone, she was legit the front runner of the show. Her loss was a lot more shocking compared to say Jujubee or Alexis. Jujubee hadn't won a challenge on her season and Alexis was on Raja's season, who pretty much won the moment she walked through the door. Shea's loss showed that getting to the finale no longer guaranteed your win because the finale took such huge importance.

 

I think there is some revisionist history going on here.  Going into the finale of Season 9, Shea and Trinity were pretty much seen on equal footing, with Sasha at the same level or only slightly behind.  Shea had won four challenges, but two of those wins were co-wins with Sasha.  Trinity won 3 challenges all by herself.  While Sasha "only" had her two co-wins with Shea, Sasha also never appeared in the bottom 2 all season.   If anything, it was a three-woman race to the finish line with Peppermint seemingly in fourth... but I don't think Shea was necessarily the legit break away front winner.  It anything, heading into the finale, I thought it was Trinity's crown.

Season 9 was also "special" with the finale lip sync twist.  From Seasons 4 through 8 all the finalists were filmed at the finale chosen by Ru as the winner, giving production the option of selecting and airing the winner up to the very last moment.  The winner could be swayed by social media, fan responses, general vibe of the moment, what have you.  Interestingly enough, Juju and Alexis were both finalists in seasons that still taped finales on a closed set.  Likewise, given the fan reaction back in Season 2, Juju may have won if Ru was able to select a winner based on fan response.  Since it leaked Raja won in Season 3, a live format with multiple filmed winners seemed logical.  It was also the year that social media really took interest in the show and the contrast of Sharon Needles and Chad Michaels' approaches to drag.

Fast forwards to Season 9's Finale... and maybe Shea was gooped by the Lip Sync tournament (although they apparently had some head's up).  I wonder if Shea had some ego in losing to Sasha, whose only wins were shared with Shea (while Shea also had two solo wins).  Maybe there is bitterness in never even having that "phony" moment of being crowned the winner, even if it never aired.   Whatever it is, Shea made it part of the narrative of her return to All Stars, much more than Trinity did when she returned on All Stars 4, even though both queens were eliminated in the first round of lip sync tournament. 

[swanpride]

Sasha and Shea were both in the top three seven times back then. Shea had more wins, but Sasha kept being the runner up, and often it seemed that the decision was mostly made by the flip of a coin. With Sasha having the more unusual point of view, I saw her as clear forerunner back then, despite Shea having more wins. But no matter who one saw as forerunner, the idea the Shea was somehow the obvious winner of the season who then stumbled in the last minute is a rewrite of history.

And again: It's not just the producers pushing this narrative. Unless someone stood beside Shea the whole season and kept advising her to add references to this narrative in every challenge, she pushed it on the forefront herself. Which is on the one hand quite clever, since providing some sort of narrative is part of the game. I don't begrudge her that in itself. But I really feels that this particular narrative did her a disservice. I think in the end, Juju is the winner of the season because she reminded everyone again which she is the queen who keeps getting robbed, and that without ever mentioning anything in the direction aside from pointing out once that she got her first win the third time she participated in the show, despite making it to the top three twice beforehand.

I always wonder what Ru's issue with Jujube is. There are queens which seem to get the win the moment it can be argued that they deserve it, but Juju is the only one where I got the feeling that if possible the win goes to someone else.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

13 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Speaking of Shea being entitled....

I'm sorry to say that Shea is spreading around some really gross anti-mask rhetoric. You can read more about it here, if you want.

To put it briefly, she didn't wear a mask at her victory party. When photo evidence of that went public, people called her out abit. She could have responded by just saying, "Yeah, I got carried away on the night of my big win. Everyone should wear a mask!" But instead she's digging in, insisting that she "earned" the right to go maskless.

And this is someone who claims her cousin died of COVID! Damn it, Shea! I thought you were one of the smartest and most socially responsible queens out there. That's one of the reasons I was okay with you winning, even though I thought Jujubee was better.

That's really disappointing. I know that she wanted to celebrate her win and this is just a weird time for EVERYONE, but sheesh. I know people who have canceled other important events like weddings, first communions, etc. due to the pandemic because they wanted to make sure that everyone was safe (aka not accidentally get their parents or grandparents sick). I get that Shea was excited and happy about winning but doubling down on "I EARNED the right to not wear a mask" is not a good look especially when realistically, a victory party is something that can be postponed. You'd think that she would want to be extra careful since her cousin died from it!

[WhineandCheez]

Are JuJu and Derrick Barry dating or are they just close friends?  Because when Derrick arrived, he and JuJu hugged a reallly long time, and later they were holding hands.

JujuBee is my tied-for-first place Favorite Queen of all time (with Alyssa Edwards) AND ALSO MY FAVORITE CANDY OF ALL TIME!  (In High School, we sat in the movie theatre and had contests to see who could stuff the most Jujubees under their upper lip.  But I digress...) I felt like in most challenges she was a bit off--like 15% off.  The outfit wan't quite right or the performance was a bit subdued.  Her humor is flawless and her read in her first season is my favorite of all time ("are you canceling your Barbeque, because your grill is fucked up!)

All this said--Shea brought it big time and deserved the win. She is a total package for sure.

[swanpride]

Derrich has a partner I think...wasn't the whole story with India about her screwing her partner out of a job in Las Vegas?

 

 

[MsJamieDornan]

On 7/31/2020 at 1:56 AM, swanpride said:

Derrich has a partner I think..

Derrick has 2 partners .

[theatremouse]

Neither is Juju.