S03.E16: The Image Disappears

[Athena]

The Kennish and Vasquez families rally to support a loved one who is in critical condition. Amid the emotion, blame is placed, decisions must be made and lives are forever changed.

 

The Art: "The Image Disappears" by Salvador Dalí (1938). Oil on canvas.

 

I love the art titles! A very nice one for this episode too.

[possibilities]

This show is so much better when it focuses on family, not teen romance. But I still wonder why they thought it was better to kill Angelo than to develop his relationships more. Did Giles want out of his contract?

[FormerMod-a1]

This episode didn't do too much for me.  I think it should have, but it just didn't.

 

So, Angelo had his will drawn up and conveniently handy.  He also had an aneurysm that burst after his argument with Regina.  But even though anger can make it burst, there had to be something there first, right?  Convenient how that was never mentioned, even by the doctor.  Daphne could still blame Regina even knowing that.  Ugh, I don't know if I like where this is going.  And it seems like we should at least get a mention of Adriana in coming episodes.  I mean would she really leave Regina to deal with this alone? But I know the actress has another series so I'm not holding out hope.

[KaveDweller]

But even though anger can make it burst, there had to be something there first, right?  Convenient how that was never mentioned, even by the doctor.  Daphne could still blame Regina even knowing that.  Ugh, I don't know if I like where this is going.  And it seems like we should at least get a mention of Adriana in coming episodes.  I mean would she really leave Regina to deal with this alone? But I know the actress has another series so I'm not holding out hope.

 

Yeah, I think there has to be something there first for it to burst.  I didn't like Daphne blaming Regina either.  I can see how she would be upset to hear anger could have caused it, but that fight between Regina and Angelo was two-sided.

 

I thought the acting was good all around, but I guess I didn't care too much about Angelo because I didn't feel particularly sad about his death.  Even seeing the whole cast upset didn't do much for me.

[Primetimer]

The Kennishes and Vasquezes gather to be with Angelo in his time of crisis.

Read the story

[CleoCaesar]

Frankly, I’m glad. Watching Gilles Marini attempt to act was not good TV.

 

Those fantasies sequences were weird – they made it look like Angelo was the father of Bay’s twins and that Angelo was marrying Daphne.

 

Don’t feel too bad, John. A lot of us thought Angelo deserved to go broke.

 

TV shows always get it wrong when it comes to SATs and college admissions. Daphne would not have been able to just swan in to the SAT in the middle of the day. It’s a heavily proctored exam, not just a random midterm.

 

“This is not a recoverable injury.” “But he’s in the hospital!” Hahaha. I don’t know why, but that cracked me up and it shouldn’t have.

 

Aaaand this was a long organ donation commercial.

[AmandaPanda]

They just never knew what to do with Angelo's character. He's been a wasted storyline for nearly three seasons. The most merciful thing to all of us was to just let him go.

[Bec]

Huh. I'm kind of surprised they actually killed off Angelo. I'm not looking forward to the Daphne/Regina rift. But maybe we'll get a little more Bay/Regina out of that. I do like the beautiful friendship between the two moms. "We're family!" Aww... so sweet.

 

Besides the weird organ donation PSA, there was also the blood donation PSA and the praying thing that came off like those religious advertisements I used to see on TV from time to time (you know, the ones that goes something like: you can die at any moment. Have you accepted Jesus as your lord and savior yet?)

 

"Love means doing what the other person wants, even if it's not what you want" (or something like that). Wow, check out Emmett, he's all grown-up!

[bybrandy]

I like Bay's angst over not remembering her last conversation with Angelo.

I know that wasn't any place for a baby, but I thought the lack of a mention of Angelo's other daughter was a bit weird.   Wasn't he doing an open adoption with the couple that adopted her and seeing her relatively frequently?    Again, I wouldn't want her or her dads there, but a mention would be worth something.   

 

My grandfather died of an aneurysm.   He was riding home from a nice lunch out.   I have never even once considered blaming the lunch he ate or the contented sight seeing he was doing for said burst aneurysm.   

[Bringonthedrama]

I give those two young actresses a lot of credit - I rarely cry while watching TV or a movie but I totally believed their heartbreak, anger, shock, etc and they had me in tears for Bay and Daphne's loss. My heart went out to Bay and Emmett in the scene at Angelo's place, and to both girls when Daphne lip-read "brain dead," and to Bay calling her bio-grandmother for the first time ever ... to give her the sad news. Bay looked like she'd had her heart ripped out. 

[Spencer Hastings]

I am not here for seeing the rest of this season become how Daphne handles Angelo's death.  I just KNOW that they're going there and I'm going to be so upset if we don't get to see Bay work through this.  I like how they conveniently threw in how Bay pretty much ignored him, but I don't think that's accurate.  The writers ignore how everything impacts Bay.  This show is all about Daphne and how Daphne is always the victim.  Daphne is the one who has to process these situations.  I'm afraid this is going to become Daphne's loss, even though Bay is the one who really lost out on the chance to know her biological father.  I really hope this storyline focuses on Bay, or at least the girls equally. 

 

I'm surprised they had Angelo die.  I thought for sure that a miracle would happen but if they were going to go there, I'm glad they went all the way.

 

John, Katherine, and Toby were sweet in this episode.  I loved the emphasis on family.  I also liked that Katherine held Daphne and that Regina held Bay while they were pulling the plug.  We don't get to see them "mother" their biological kids much.

[Athena]

I didn't love this episode either. I'm not sure how to feel about it. It was just a bit edging to melodrama territory.

 

The ABC Family promoters always ruin the episode.

 

I didn't like the Flash Forward Fantasy sequences at all. The show has a dodgy history with that kind of thing and it just seemed a bit emotionally manipulative for the audience.

 

Angelo grew on me so I'm bit sad he's gone actually.

 

Bay acted really crazy up until Emmett told her straight that she had accept the will. They are a good couple.

 

I'm tired of Daphne and Regina fighting. I'm kinda bored of the Regina drama.

[Eri]

I think Bay pointing out how much she took Angelo for granted is pretty accurate. A relationship takes a two way street and as Emmett said involves doing stuff you don't always like to do. Bay and Regina are alike in the sense that they lash out and deal with things on their own. Angelo was a terrible screw-up no doubt, but the summer she spent with the Vasquezes was wasted on the Ty debacle. Before that, she used him as a cover so she can go do street art with Zarrah. Unfortunately, the lesson is that you don't know what you have until you lose it.

 

I wish they had let them travel to Europe together so she could learn more about her heritage but the silver lining is that Bay *did* have a father to grow up with (biological or not) for most of her life and perhaps the Kennishes can help her find more of Angelo's family, particularly meeting her grandmother in France. The "What would you know, he's not your dad!" was a bit harsh, though I understand it was said out of anger. I only feel sorry for Daphne because she's only had a father for a few years and lost a recent one she was starting to bond with which would be hard on anyone who has been abandoned before. Given that all of them were casting blame among each other, I thought it was natural for Daphne finding fault with Regina though, she's been making just as many mistakes as Angelo has and is treated like a martyr when she stubbornly hides behind her pride for a lot of her screw-ups.

 

Honestly, Angelo was a wasted character. His only purpose was to show up, have a shady past, commit a sham marriage with Regina, win a lawsuit, bear new offspring from a one night stand, go broke and die. I suspected that Coto or someone else was a cause for his "accident" but I won't be surprised if this aneurysm is part of another "skeleton in the closet." The foreshadowing and flashbacks were very creepy.

[CleoCaesar]

I didn't like the Flash Forward Fantasy sequences at all. The show has a dodgy history with that kind of thing and it just seemed a bit emotionally manipulative for the audience.

 

I had sort of tuned out by this point in the episode, so my question is genuine: Was Angelo coming back and hugging Regina a fantasy of Regina's (i.e. what she wished had happened) or her remembering what actually did happen (he wanted to make amends but she kicked him out)?

[possibilities]

I was revolted that the fantasy flashes were for Bay and Daphne enacting the feminine imperative to breed/marry. Why not show Bay having an art exhibit, or Daphne getting her M.D.? If they're going to show milestones and achievements you'd want to share with your dad? Ptui.

 

My ex's mom died of an aneuyrism, and they can burst for any and no reason. Sure, high blood pressure, or over-exertion, can be the trigger, but it's like the straw that broke the camel's back, not the 1 Real Reason. I didn't mind the organ donation ad aspect. It was a bit heavy-handed, but whatever-- good cause, logical to the story, might as well do the plug.

 

I was actually most touched by Toby putting his arm briefly around Daphne's shoulders. They don't talk about it much, but the two of them were deprived of their original sibling relationship by the switch, and when the exhibit it, it always moves me.

 

I think everyone should have a will, so I wasn't surprised Angelo had one. I worry about what it says, though. that's not actually where you're supposed to put your wishes about things like life support. Normally, you don't read the will til after the death, and you heed to decide about "extraordinary measures" before that point. I hope his will doesn't stir up more conflict and hard feelings, if they make its reading into a plot point. Also, if he and Regina are married, does she inherit his debts? Or does the foreclosure auction provide enough money to pay the bills, so that's the end of that whole thread?

[CleoCaesar]

I was revolted that the fantasy flashes were for Bay and Daphne enacting the feminine imperative to breed/marry.

 

Or maybe - just maybe - marriage and having kids is important to a lot of women, or specifically Bay and Daphne in this case. Not so much an imperative anymore as it is a choice that women can make for themselves. Not everything is anti-feminist propaganda.

[Athena]

I had sort of tuned out by this point in the episode, so my question is genuine: Was Angelo coming back and hugging Regina a fantasy of Regina's (i.e. what she wished had happened) or her remembering what actually did happen (he wanted to make amends but she kicked him out)?

 

Given that the girls had fantasy futures with Angelo, I took this as Regina wishing she had changed things for her and Angelo. Either way, she could have made amends when she found about the switch and when he tried to contact Daphne, but she shut him down. Poor obstinate Regina, she's often her worse enemy.

[KBrownie]

 

TV shows always get it wrong when it comes to SATs and college admissions. Daphne would not have been able to just swan in to the SAT in the middle of the day. It’s a heavily proctored exam, not just a random midterm.

 

I'm a high school teacher who has actually proctored the SAT and many other high stakes testing required by the state and that whole scene just had me cringing.  It looked like she just waltzed in during a break in testing. I know it was for the DRAMA, but Daphne's phone NEVER would have just been sitting on the desk like that.  It would have had to have been turned OFF so there wouldn't be any buzzing and stored in a secure location with all of the other phones that were taken from students as no one is allowed to have them on their person while taking the test.  And where were the other students' phones?  They all had them taken, so why wasn't Daphne's phone placed with them? DRAMA!  There also wasn't enough room placed between each student and there should have been another proctor in the room given the number of students testing.

 

 

I am not here for seeing the rest of this season become how Daphne handles Angelo's death.  I just KNOW that they're going there and I'm going to be so upset if we don't get to see Bay work through this.  I like how they conveniently threw in how Bay pretty much ignored him, but I don't think that's accurate.  The writers ignore how everything impacts Bay.  This show is all about Daphne and how Daphne is always the victim.  Daphne is the one who has to process these situations.  I'm afraid this is going to become Daphne's loss, even though Bay is the one who really lost out on the chance to know her biological father.  I really hope this storyline focuses on Bay, or at least the girls equally.

 

I have to wholeheartedly agree with all of this.  It's going to be all about Daphne.  She's the perfect princess.  Even tonight.  She's the one who didn't need to be convinced to let Angelo go.  She's able to magically read the lips of the doctor (from outside the room no less! Didn't she tell Angelo that lip-reading was hard?). She's the magnanimous one who brought up donating  Angelo's organs to save the lives of others.  Won't she just make a great doctor!?  And now she's super pissed at Regina.  This show isn't subtle at all sometimes.  

 

I'm not sure what the rule is about posting links to articles,so I hope this is okay (mods feel free to remove), but here's one from the creator of the show Lizzy Weiss that elaborates on how Daphne will react to Angelo's death.  It does have broad, general spoilers for the rest of the season so read at your own risk: 

 

http://tvline.com/2014/07/14/switched-at-birth-angelo-dies-season-3-spoilers/

 

I like this show, but it wastes so much time on pointless characters and BS storylines.  If they knew they wanted to kill off Angelo, they should have spent 3A, this past Winter season, building up his relationship with Daphne AND Bay.  It would have made Angelo's death have more of an impact.  Four episodes of bonding does not a relationship make.  Instead they spent all of 3A on Tank/Jorge/Campbell and none of that went anywhere.  Well, Tank at least served his purpose in reuniting Emmett and Bay, but Jorge and Campbell?  Complete waste of time.

 

And while what Bay said about not remembering her last conversation with Angelo was true, I put that more on the writers than the character.  This show has NEVER really shown much interest in Bay developing a bond with her biological parents.  Certainly not at the same level as Daphne with John and Kathryn.  Yeah, she lived with them all last summer, but let's be real, that was more about Bay having the freedom to go off and do her thing with Ty than it was about bonding with Regina and Angelo.  She spent the overwhelming majority of her time with Ty.  Living with Regina and Angelo allowed her freedom that she wouldn't have had at home with John and Kathryn.  When the summer was over, the relationship between Bay, Regina, and Angelo went right back to the way it was before.  The writers could have chosen to have some sort of bonding between Bay and Angelo in the first four episodes just like they did with Daphne, but they obviously have chosen to go with the narrative that Bay didn't care enough to get to know him, which isn't really accurate in my opinion.  Wanting to know more about her biological family and be connected to them has been a fairly consistent character trait for Bay.

 

 

Bay acted really crazy up until Emmett told her straight that she had accept the will. They are a good couple.

 

They so are.  Bay and Emmett are so much more mature and are actually communicating with each other.  He was there for her when she needed him just like she was there for him with his father.  I love them so much. I'm not even going to lie, although the whole flash forward to Angelo coaching a pregnant (w/twins!) Bay through labor was sort of cheesy, I totally smiled when it was implied that Emmett was the father that walked in.  And when Bay woke up and said "You're here" with that smile . . . love them.

 

 

 

I'm kinda bored of the Regina drama.

 

Me too.  There's been so much of it this season.  And this is just my speculation, but the next bit of drama is probably going to come in the form of Wes.  They totally foreshadowed her hooking up with him last week with his sudden desire to do the right thing and Angelo's accusations that she was cheating.  I'm so over it.  

 

I was glad to see her tending to BOTH Bay and Daphne tonight, but it shouldn't take a tragedy for her to take notice of Bay.  I really hope she doesn't go back to ignoring Bay while trying to take care of Daphne.  Bay lost her father too.  That shouldn't be ignored just because she has had John in her life all this time.  John's a great Dad, but Bay has every right, just as much as Daphne, to mourn what she has lost.  

 

Are brain aneurysms a condition that can be passed down to a sufferer's children?  That would be an interesting avenue on which to focus on as a result of Angelo's death.  Should Bay be tested/treated? 

[Gardencrown]

 

“This is not a recoverable injury.” “But he’s in the hospital!” Hahaha. I don’t know why, but that cracked me up and it shouldn’t have.

I know, that kind of cracked me up too! In fact the whole "brain dead" thing -- John desperately calling other neurologists, Bay insisting that he was alive because his heart was beating...maybe I'm just super overly pragmatic, but DUDE. He's dead. It's not this debatable thing when the doctor says "brain dead." It's awful and tragic, but brain dead is dead. So I guess I was surprised that no one seemed to believe that. I get being in denial, but that was all a little too TVish for me. I think John Kennish would be the last of the great pragmatists there, so it didn't ring true.

 

All that said, it was a pretty ballsy decision to actually kill off Angelo and not rescue him in the 11th hour. While I would have liked to see his relationship with the girls develop more (not so much with Regina -- sick of the two of them), there is a lot of rich meaty material in the girls dealing with his death too. And count me in as really, really sad at the awful stunned look on Daphne's face when she read the doctor's lips and Bay's desperate longing for a more significant connection to remember. Great work by both actresses. And you gotta love Kathryn Kennish in a crisis! Toby too. Though he has to lose the douchy facial hair.

 

I kind of disagree that Bay didn't pursue her relationship with him. If anything, both Angelo and Regina are so ridiculously self-involved that I'm not sure how she can pursue more. Regina has always made it pretty clear that she doesn't want the same parent-daughter bond that the Kennish parents have with Daphne. Regina...man...she is one messy person...stumbling around in her personal and professional lives...it's why I kinda love her. People are really like that, and I like that they don't make her the perfect single mother.

 

And please no to Douche!Wes (the only way I think of him). I don't know whether it's the actor or the character or the hideous wardrobe choices (my son and I actually had a fit of giggles once over his too-low tshirt and his CHEST hair. Snerk.) -- but I cannot get on board with him at all. AT ALL.

[Scarlett45]

GardenCrown I agree that the lack of understanding that brain dead IS dead in 2014 was very ridiculous and a little contrived.

Angelo never had it in him to be a full time parent, hence why he didn't want to raise Abby. People like that usually (well if they are responsible) choose not to HAVE children rather than be as self righteous as Angelo was. He wanted the benefit of being a parent without putting in the dirty work. Regina was right he was going to leave anyway. Is death best serves to propel the other characters into dealing with some real issues- I am sure Daphne has felt abandoned again.

Regina has a lot of regrets, and she holds things close to her chest. I agree that she doesn't want the same type of parental bond with Bay that she has with Daphne, I do think she loves Bay, and cares about Bay and wants to be in her life but she accepted a long time ago that she was never going to be Bay's mother- and she is at peace with that. It may be that she has no desire to have that relationship with anyone other than Daphne.

I still contend, as I did on the TWOP forums that people feel this way (rightly or wrongly) because they don't feel that Bay NEEDS them. Regina felt tha Daphne needed her to be her mother, that was the catalyst for her getting her life together etc.

I do wonder why no one has mentioned Adrianna? I know the actress has another show but still.

[MissScarlett]

Ugh that song at the end when they were taking him off of life support just gutted me.  I tried to Google the lyrics but came up with nothing.  I did however, find a YouTube video.  The song is called "State of Grace" and it is by The Kays. (in case anyone else is wondering)

 

I'm a little angry that they killed off Angelo and really just feel bad for the character.  I mean, we were always told that he was a shady slimeball but most of his actions (with the exception of leaving baby Daphne), proved otherwise.  When he came back into their lives, he really tried to make up for past wrong-doings.  Even when he won the money from the lawsuit, one of the first things he did was buy Daphne a taco truck because of her love of cooking.  When he found out he was going to be a father again, he wanted that connection and spent a fair chunk of money on getting his daughter back when the birth mother up and adopted her out on him.  He is also responsible for putting Regina in rehab and being as supportive as possible during her recovery.  He punched Chef Jeff for hurting his daughter (what dad wouldn't do that?).  He and Bay had a connection.  I would say that even though she used him in certain moments, they really did have a close bond.

 

In the end, the poor guy felt like an utter failure, ended up broke and died because of an accident /  brain aneurysm.  I guess the only positive thing is that he was way more loved on his way out of their lives than he was when he initially came back in.

 

There was so much that they could have done with Angelo but didn't for whatever reason.

 

Regina of course will lean on Wes le douche.  The east riverside project thing is still hanging out there so there's still time for more tragedy before this season ends.

 

Next week's promo shows Angry Daphne.  I'm really hoping that the writers can focus on both Bay and Daphne's post-Angelo-death-response.  In the past, Daphne's feelings are always considered and nurtured whereas Bay seems to get swept under somewhere.

[Bec]

I get that the writers were trying to be poignant with the birth/wedding fantasy flash forwards. Trying to give us the sense that it's so sad that version of the future would never happen now. So they deliberately picked the kind of milestones that someone would especially want their father around for.

 

Well, maybe not so much birth, because the last person I would want in the room in that scenario is my father. My mom, absolutely. My dad, NO. Hee. But I guess they had to remind us Angelo was there when Bay was born. (Though that thing he said about baby Bay looking at him with her big eyes took me out of the moment. Was that actually Daphne, not Bay, or did he not notice he was sent home with a baby with different eye color? Why am I nitpicking a fantasy sequence?)

 

Anyway, graduations and things like that don't feature fathers as heavily. It's nice if your father is there for those things, but it's not like his would be missed as terribly at a graduation as when he's not there to walk his daughter down the aisle at her wedding.

 

But I can see what Possibilities said, too. That was hilariously trite, like lifetime-movie levels of sentimentality. Nothing hits those schmaltzy notes like birth and weddings!

 

They couldn't have wrung quite that much cheese out of any other major milestones. That's why it had to be those ones. Hee!

[Scarlett45]

Bec- it's possible that Bay and Daphne both had blue eyes when they were born, (with Bay's turning brown later on) and thus Angelo's memory makes sense.

[bettername2come]

I was revolted that the fantasy flashes were for Bay and Daphne enacting the feminine imperative to breed/marry. Why not show Bay having an art exhibit, or Daphne getting her M.D.? If they're going to show milestones and achievements you'd want to share with your dad? Ptui.

 

Because the point was not only to show important milestones, but to show family-based milestones. Plus, Angelo's attended an art exhibit for Bay already when they first met. That being said, the scenes were cheesy. Although Daphne made a gorgeous bride.

 

Bay, Daphne and Regina were heartbreaking. When they called the grandmother, Bay put her arm around Daphne and she just leaned against Bay, that's where I started to lose it. Sharing in losing a parent, I think Bay and Daphne just suddenly shared that deep sisterly bond. I think the other actors did a great job of portraying how to support loved ones in times of crisis. I loved John being there when Regina was questioned by police, Toby being there for his sisters with a squeeze on the shoulder, all the Kathryn/Regina moments. The actors put their all into the emotional storylines they are given.

 

SAT complaint: The woman would have turned the cell phone off in real life.

[SilverLake0315]

This episode didn't do too much for me.  I think it should have, but it just didn't.

 

It made me dislike Daphne more than I already did...does that count?

[joanne3482]

Anyway, graduations and things like that don't feature fathers as heavily. It's nice if your father is there for those things, but it's not like his would be missed as terribly at a graduation as when he's not there to walk his daughter down the aisle at her wedding.

 

I dunno, maybe I'm selfish but if I graduated from MEDICAL school I think if they were physically able I'd expect family to be there. Especially if I went in with a disability that would make Med school much more difficult. I also didn't like how the Kennishes were basically dismissed from both fantasies. The Kennishes were "on their way" from wherever they were flying in from and no mention of John at all for Daphne's wedding day. I can see that they were fantasizing about their future with Angelo, but I don't know... it just rubbed me wrong. 

 

While watching the episode I tweeted that if this show went down the Terri Schaivo route I'd be out. Thank goodness they didn't. I did love that it was a big ad for organ donation and blood donation. Both of these are extremely important to me and I like seeing the positive message out there whenever possible. 

Edited July 15, 2014 by joanne3482

[t7686]

I really liked this episode. For the most part it was very realistic and I liked that everyone responded in character. Thanks KBrownie for the link to slight spoilers for the rest of the season. It makes sense for Daphne to be the most affected as she really was the closest to Angelo at the end. That said, I'm not sure I want to see a whole season of her acting out because of it and being mad at Regina but at least it's in character for her. Her response to his death (blaming Regina etc) sort of explains why Bay's not really close to her bio parents. Someone mentioned it up thread, Daphne needs all the parents (Kathryn, John, Regina, and Angelo) in her life. Whether it's her personality or abandonment issues from Angelo leaving her, or growing up with a disability, she craves attention and acceptance from authority figures. Bay on the other hand, while the Kennishes have their flaws, there's nothing really wrong with them (or her childhood) for Bay to really need to seek out Regina or Angelo. While Daphne has all those abandonment issues from childhood that needs to be addressed and can be by all her parents. Added to that, Bay just naturally tends to be more of a loner. Regina made it clear which of her two daughters she'd chose in a 'Sophie's Choice' or 'The Good Son' situation, Angelo from the beginning shifted from wanting to get to know Bay to wanting to make things right with Regina and Daphne partly because I think they were much more vocal about their issues with him. Makes sense why now, Bay can't remember a meaningful conversation with Angelo but Daphne can. Some interesting and complicated issues that have been dormant for a while now,  I think will come out due to Angelo's death. Thanks for going there 'Switched at Birth'. I didn't think you had it in you.

Edited July 15, 2014 by t7686

[Athena]

... Bay on the other hand, while the Kennishes have their flaws, there's nothing really wrong with them (or her childhood) for Bay to really need to seek out Regina or Angelo. While Daphne has all those abandoment issues from childhood that needs to be addressed and can be by all her parents. Added to that, Bay just naturally tends to be more of a loner. Regina made it clear which of her two daughters she'd chose in a 'Sophie's Choice' or 'The Good Son' situation, Angelo from the beginning shifted from wanting to get to know Bay to wanting to make things right with Regina and Daphne partly because I think they were much more vocal about their issues with him. Makes sense why now, Bay can't remember a meaningful conversation with Angelo but Daphne can. Some interesting and complicated issues that have been dormant for a while now,  I think will come out due to Angelo's death. Thanks for going there 'Switched at Birth'. I didn't think you had it in you.

 

You do bring up good points about Angelo being closer or trying to make amends to Daphne and Regina. Also, Daphne is often seen as the needier one for a variety of reasons, but she does crave attention and validation in way that differs from Bay.

 

I won't say that Bay has needed Angelo or Regina less though. It's been established that Bay keeps a lot of stuff to herself because of her introverted nature. She does get eclipsed by Daphne. I think it's why Kathryn has been a good mother to Bay because even though they clash, Kathryn really knows how to bring Bay out in a way Regina has not tried to. It's a real shame that Regina or Angelo haven't spent enough time with Bay. She'd love it, but she doesn't seek or vocalize it the way Daphne does. If the rest of the season is more Daphne's issues, my mind will wander. It also proves that the writers marginalize Bay more when writing about the switch. Sometimes Bay really annoys me like she did in parts of this episode, but I do identify with her more.

[RachelKM]

I was ok with this episode.  I, like many, would have felt the impact more if Angelo and his relationships with the girls, Bay in particular, had been used to better effect earlier in the series.  But over all, I thought it was fairly well done especially showing how grief can make people irrational and lash out.  I agree though that John, Katherine, Bay, and Regina failing to comprehend what brain death means was ridiculous.  Having trouble making it final with the discontinuation of support?  Sure.  But acting like there was hope of recovery was sort of bizarre coming from over half the cast.  

 

But of course Daphne got it because apparently now she's some medical prodigy (in addition to her cooking gifts, athleticism, social consciousness, ability to communicate with woodland creatures,...) and gets things like explanations of medical conditions explained by a doctor intentionally using lay terms and simplifications for ease of lay consumption.  My eyes nearly rolled out of my head when Daphne parroted back to the doctor an extremely basic concept that had just been explained and he, of course, said "Are you pre-med."  

 

What the actual fuck? Now even the F'ing neurosurgeon thinks she's Hippocrates incarnate?

Edited July 15, 2014 by RachelKM

[t7686]

 

I won't say that Bay has needed Angelo or Regina less though.

Fair enough. I guess I mean more that it's easier for Bay, rather than Daphne, to shrug off wanting to get to know Angelo because she doesn't have all these issues from her childhood with him that Daphne does. I agree that Bay does need to know her bio parents but since they both, as time went on, didn't try to make much of a effort with her it's easier for her to just stick with John and Kathryn. Overall, they're pretty "normal" and accepting and despite some hiccups in the first season, have made it clear there's room for both her and Daphne in their lives. Daphne on the other hand, has issues with Regina because she hid the switch (yet Daphne can still be close to Regina because Regina chose Daphne over Bay/Daphne's all she has) and issues with Angelo because he left (yet he wanted to make up for leaving her) so I can see why she can go to the Kennishes almost as equally as she can go to Regina and Angelo while it not being the same for Bay. They both probably need all the parents the same but it's possible for Daphne and not Bay right now for the aforementioned reasons. Which sucks for Bay as Angelo's now gone and I don't think Regina will ever warm up to her.

 

t's been established that Bay keeps a lot of stuff to herself because of her introverted nature. She does get eclipsed by Daphne. I think it's why Kathryn has been a good mother to Bay because even though they clash, Kathryn really knows how to bring Bay out in a way Regina has not tried to. It's a real shame that Regina or Angelo haven't spent enough time with Bay. She'd love it, but she doesn't seek or vocalize it the way Daphne does. If the rest of the season is more Daphne's issues, my mind will wander. It also proves that the writers marginalize Bay more when writing about the switch. Sometimes Bay really annoys me like she did in parts of this episode, but I do identify with her more.

 

^ This? I agree with all of what you said above. I think Bay has similar issues of abandoment with Reginia that Daphne had with Angelo but Bay's much too introverted to say anything or to push the issue. I too hope it won't just all be about Daphne's issues but like you said, she's more vocal about everything and therefore gets most of the attention.

Edited July 15, 2014 by t7686

[Fauxliage]

But of course Daphne got it because apparently now she's some medical prodigy (in addition to her cooking gifts, athleticism, social consciousness, ability to communicate with woodland creatures,...) and gets things like explanations of medical conditions explained by a doctor intentionally using lay terms and simplifications for ease of lay consumption.  My eyes nearly rolled out of my head when Daphne parroted back to the doctor an extremely basic concept that had just been explained and he, of course, said "Are you pre-med."  

 

With the actual fuck? Now even the F'ing neurosurgeon thinks she's Hippocrates incarnate?

 

She's so gifted she knew that Angelo was tanking in the middle of taking her SAT, while it took the medical team ages longer to respond.

 

(Can't believe anyone thought it would be a good idea to even try taking an SAT. Even super Daphne has her limits.)

[CleoCaesar]

Daphne needs all the parents (Kathryn, John, Regina, and Angelo) in her life. Whether it's her personality or abandonment issues from Angelo leaving her, or growing up with a disability, she craves attention and acceptance from authority figures. Bay on the other hand, while the Kennishes have their flaws, there's nothing really wrong with them (or her childhood) for Bay to really need to seek out Regina or Angelo.

 

I agree about Daphne. (And boy does she get acceptance from authority figures... Has she been awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor yet?) As for Bay, I think if anything she's been more than a little callous towards John and Katherine, and kind of fetishizes the idea of an exotic, foreign, artsy "real" father. It fits in with her image of the rebellious loner artist, if nothing else. John raised her from birth and is her father, but for some reason Angelo is the one coaching her through birth pains in her fantasy?? Angelo was Bay's sperm donor, nothing else. Any kind of extreme grief from her would ring very false to me (except if it's presented as her losing the fantasy of her "cool dad" who understands how misunderstood Bay was or whatever).

[KBrownie]

 

 

But of course Daphne got it because apparently now she's some medical prodigy (in addition to her cooking gifts, athleticism, social consciousness, ability to communicate with woodland creatures,...) and gets things like explanations of medical conditions explained by a doctor intentionally using lay terms and simplifications for ease of lay consumption.  My eyes nearly rolled out of my head when Daphne parroted back to the doctor an extremely basic concept that had just been explained and he, of course, said "Are you pre-med." 

With the actual fuck? Now even the F'ing neurosurgeon thinks she's Hippocrates incarnate?

 

She really is the pretty perfect princess who can do anything isn't she?   She also was the great, magnanimous one who suggested organ donation while everyone else was still in denial.

 

It's ridiculous after three seasons of the same old thing.  It's especially frustrating to watch Bay and her development continually get marginalized while Daphne gets all the attention and focus.  She's really not that special.  I am really going to hate it if the fallout of Angelo's death is all about her.  I don't care what happened in the past, Bay lost her father too.  John and Kathryn and how they raised Bay have nothing to do with it.  A loss is a loss.  

 

I also have to disagree that Bay needs any of the parents less.  Yeah, she didn't have it as rough as Daphne, or the same personality as Daphne, but that doesn't somehow mean that she doesn't need or want their love and affection any less than Daphne.  The switch didn't just affect Daphne.  Her dream of Angelo being there when she gave birth proves that he is someone that she wants in her life for all the big moments just like John and Kathryn.  Daphne's dream did the same.  

 

The idea that Daphne somehow "deserves" more from the parents is troubling.  I know the show likes to present Daphne as special snowflake, but she really isn't all that special.  She especially isn't so special that the parents should fawn all over her and push Bay to the side.  She never was.  I agree that Regina doesn't and probably will never care about Bay as much as Daphne.  That's not okay.  I don't care what her excuse is, it's just an excuse at this point.  Step up if she means something to you Regina.  As for Angelo, I'm not going to buy four episodes of bonding as evidence that Daphne was closer to Angelo than Bay.  Prior to those episodes, Bay and Daphne had pretty much the same relationship with Angelo.  I would even argue Bay was closer to him because she at least WANTED to have a meaningful relationship with him.  So no, the excuse that Daphne should take it harder or get more attention because she was closer to Angelo doesn't fly with me.  Yes, Bay is not as outgoing as Daphne, but that doesn't make it okay for her to be ignored either.  Good parents who care, as John and Kathryn have shown, will still reach out to her anyway because she still needs their love and affection.  And it's not like Bay pushes people away.  She has shown repeatedly to want and accept love from those around her.  

 

 

Angelo was Bay's sperm donor, nothing else. Any kind of extreme grief from her would ring very false to me (except if it's presented as her losing the fantasy of her "cool dad" who understands how misunderstood Bay was or whatever).

 

Just curious, but did you feel that Daphne shouldn't have felt anything at seeing John in the hospital last year when he had his heart attack?

 

I just can't get behind the idea that just because John and Kathryn were good parents and raised Bay well, that she should just not care at all about her biological parents.  Especially when the same is usually not applied to Daphne.  Daphne, grew up poor, but she was loved and well taken care of.  Why does she need anything from the Kennishes then?  Is she the only one allowed to bond with her biological family?

Edited July 15, 2014 by KBrownie

[t7686]

I also have to disagree that Bay needs any of the parents less.  Yeah, she didn't have it as rough as Daphne, or the same personality as Daphne, but that doesn't somehow mean that she doesn't need or want their love and affection any less than Daphne.  The switch didn't just affect Daphne.  Her dream of Angelo being there when she gave birth proves that he is someone that she wants in her life for all the big moments just like John and Kathryn.  Daphne's dream did the same.

Just want to say that I also agree with everything you said KBrownie. I suppose I didn't say what I meant correctly because I'm nodding along to what both you and Athena are saying in regards to Bay. My point was more in regards that I can see why Bay doesn't have the same relationship with Regina and Angelo that Daphne has with... well everyone, not that I think it's right.  Just that for the reasons I mentioned on the outside it may appear that Bay doesn't need them even though she actually does. As Scarlett45 said:

 

I still contend, as I did on the TWOP forums that people feel this way (rightly or wrongly) because they don't feel that Bay NEEDS them. Regina felt tha Daphne needed her to be her mother, that was the catalyst for her getting her life together etc.

Personally, I'm over Daphne. No one is that perfect at everything or deserves all the attention from everyone either. No wonder Bay's self-esteem has plummeted since Daphne arrived.

Edited July 15, 2014 by t7686

[CleoCaesar]

I just can't get behind the idea that just because John and Kathryn were good parents and raised Bay well, that she should just not care at all about her biological parents.

 

That's twisting my words quite a bit. I didn't say Bay shouldn't care about her biological parents, but that she often seems to regard John and Katherine as disposable. Her eagerness to bond with her sperm donor and biological mother sometimes comes off as "I do not need the Kennishes because I was always so misunderstood, but my REAL parents are just so awesome!".

 

Daphne, grew up poor, but she was loved and well taken care of.  Why does she need anything from the Kennishes then?  Is she the only one allowed to bond with her biological family?

 

Daphne never had a father growing up, so her bonding with John is much more understandable.

[Athena]

Personally, I'm over Daphne. No one is that perfect at everything or deserves all the attention from everyone either. No wonder Bay's self esteem has plummeted since Daphne arrived.

 

Guys, I'm kinda laughing because it's ridiculous how much they have propped the character up from the get-go. She is the special snowflake who is great at everything she does. Almost every teenage boy in the KC area wants to date her including of her half sister's boyfriends at one point.

 

 

That's twisting my words quite a bit. I didn't say Bay shouldn't care about her biological parents, but that she often seems to regard John and Katherine as disposable. Her eagerness to bond with her sperm donor and biological mother sometimes comes off as "I do not need the Kennishes because I was always so misunderstood, but my REAL parents are just so awesome!".

 

This is a YMMV. I think Bay really loves Kathryn and John. She was visibly stressed out when they had their marital falling out last season and desperate for her and Toby to have a plan to get them as a family together. I think she lashes out at them because she is a teenager and she feels she can with them. She pushes her boundaries with them because it's safer than with Angelo or Regina. The Kennishes are her real parents. I do wish Bay would express more affection for the Kennishes verbally, but it's not like Daphne is all verbal about Regina either all the time. It may be an adolescent thing too.

[Scarlett45]

t7686 thanks for quoting me. Regina is never going to care about Bay the way she does about Daphne- I think it may be akin to a woman who places her child for adoption and goes on to have other children later. She may meet her first born as an adult, form a relationship with them etc but the children she raised are first in her heart and the ones she loves the most. I am not saying all women feel this way of course, it's just an example.

I am not "over Daphne" because I don't think it's Daphne's fault this has happened. She didn't DO anything to hinder Regina's relationship with Bay. She didn't tell Regina she didn't want her to spend time with Bay. I think Bay can be kind of a brat, with her street art, running away etc- Daphne would never run away and put Regina through that type of stress. Bay's "misunderstood" persona gets old. Both girls are flawed I think and the "boyfriends of the week" and career hopping story lines get old and take us away from the heart of the show. I wish they had KEPT Daphne in the kitchen and explored her passion. That could've made for some great storylines.

[FormerMod-a1]

Personally, I'm over Daphne. No one is that perfect at everything or deserves all the attention from everyone either. No wonder Bay's self-esteem has plummeted since Daphne arrived.

 

Responding in the Daphne thread.

[KBrownie]

That's twisting my words quite a bit. I didn't say Bay shouldn't care about her biological parents, but that she often seems to regard John and Katherine as disposable. Her eagerness to bond with her sperm donor and biological mother sometimes comes off as "I do not need the Kennishes because I was always so misunderstood, but my REAL parents are just so awesome!".

 

 

Daphne never had a father growing up, so her bonding with John is much more understandable.

Those are my words and opinion.  I'm not trying to twist anything.

 

Daphne can have a relationship with her biological father because she didn't have one growing up, but Bay can't without somehow disrespecting John and Kathryn.  Based on that logic, Daphne should not have a relationship with Kathryn since she had Regina in her life as a mother and that would be disrespectful to Regina.  John and Kathryn should follow Regina's lead and not try to have a relationship with Daphne since they didn't miss out on having a daughter because they had Bay as their daughter all this time.  Same with Toby.  He didn't miss out on having a little sister, so what does he need Daphne for?  

 

I don't see why both Bay and Daphne can't have both.  They can maintain the relationships they had growing up and still create new bonds with these new parents and families that they have.  I don't believe it's disrespectful to John and Kathryn for Bay to want to have Regina and Angelo in her life.  She doesn't love or appreciate them any less.  She's expressed that very idea directly when she's said outright that her parents have been great parents.  Same with Daphne wanting to know John and Kathryn isn't disrespectful to Regina.  I don't think it has to be either/or.  And I believe Bay let go of the idea of Angelo as some perfect father long ago.  She had no illusions as to who he was, but at the end of the day he was her father, she loved him, and that's all that matters.  

 

No one is blaming Daphne either.  It's the adults (and the writers) who haven't handled things well, which is understandable to a point because no one really knows how to deal with their kids being switched at birth.  I just take issue with the fact the idea that Daphne "should" get more or "deserves" more just because Angelo wasn't around or because Daphne grew up poor.  That isn't Bay's fault.  She shouldn't just have to suck it up and accept being looked over and marginalized because Angelo left.  That will just create an entire new set of problems for the other child.  It isn't Daphne's fault either of course.  Although she certainly benefits from the situation.  

Edited July 15, 2014 by KBrownie

[SilverLake0315]

The Kennishes were "on their way" from wherever they were flying in from and no mention of John at all for Daphne's wedding day.

 

I've already deleted it from my DVR, but didn't Daphne mention feeling like the luckiest girl because she had two dads to walk her down the aisle?

[RachelKM]

I've already deleted it from my DVR, but didn't Daphne mention feeling like the luckiest girl because she had two dads to walk her down the aisle?

Yes.  The dream sequence was Angelo centric, but it was clear the John was part of Daphne's vision for her wedding.

[Angeltoes]

I loved that one of the first things Bay's grandmother said to her was a term of endearment. Bay's eyes said that she loved it, too. Come to America, Grandma, Bay needs you!

[Bec]

Oh, I didn't know people's eyes can change colors! Learn something new!

 

I dunno, maybe I'm selfish but if I graduated from MEDICAL school I think if they were physically able I'd expect family to be there. Especially if I went in with a disability that would make Med school much more difficult. I also didn't like how the Kennishes were basically dismissed from both fantasies. The Kennishes were "on their way" from wherever they were flying in from and no mention of John at all for Daphne's wedding day. I can see that they were fantasizing about their future with Angelo, but I don't know... it just rubbed me wrong.

 

I agree with that graduation would be an important milestone, I personally would place a higher value on getting edumacated than getting married, so I understand how it bugs that it's like weddings and babies get held up as the be all end all of women's lives far too often.

 

It's just that graduation is not the kind of thing where your family and especially your father has a particular role to play in the ceremony. Your dad doesn't get to be quite as directly involved and it doesn't affect his life as much as events that add family members. Nor is it really an occasion that calls for pep-talks full of age-old wisdom from dear old dad when you graduate with more edumacation than he has and go into a field he has limited knowledge about. So I can see why the writers wrote it this way.

 

The Daphne fantasy sequence did have her say she'll have two dads walking her down the aisle. That would have been sweet. Oh well, at least she has a spare dad?

[BC Mama]

And please no to Douche!Wes (the only way I think of him). I don't know whether it's the actor or the character or the hideous wardrobe choices (my son and I actually had a fit of giggles once over his too-low tshirt and his CHEST hair. Snerk.) -- but I cannot get on board with him at all. AT ALL.

 

This! My favourite part of the episode was the lack of Cocky American Cowboy Wes! I was worried Wes would be coming to the hospital to comfort Regina!

 

Although Daphne made a gorgeous bride.

True. But, seeing her in a wedding dress showed Katie Lecleric's age. Bay looked like a teenager in her dream sequence, while Daphne looked like a woman getting married.

[BestestAuntEver]

True. But, seeing her [Daphne] in a wedding dress showed Katie Lecleric's age. Bay looked like a teenager in her dream sequence, while Daphne looked like a woman getting married.

THIS. Lecleric's age was obvious in the scene where her hair was straight also. That's when it occured to me that they do her hair certain ways in attempts to de-age her. She in no way looks like a teen taking the SAT.

[paulvdb]

I don't think it's a big problem that Katie looked her own age in the wedding scene. That was after all a fantasy scene about her future, so she could just imagine that she gets married in several years and would look older at that time. It's more of a problem in scenes where she is actually supposed to be a teenager.

[stopeslite]

I think Daphne had more unfinished business with Angelo than Bay did. For Bay, he was a father she never knew she had. (and then didn't seem to take a lot of effort in getting to know). For Daphne, though, he was the dad who had abandoned him. She had an entire life history with a particular history in her mind as to what he did to her and to her mom. That's a lot to deal with and try to work through, so I totally buy that Daphne's blooming relationship with Angelo is emotionally more important than Bay's - Daphne is not exactly rewriting history, but patching large amounts of pain that have gone on her entire life, while for Bay it was just all new in the last couple of years. 

[KBrownie]

I think Daphne had more unfinished business with Angelo than Bay did. For Bay, he was a father she never knew she had. (and then didn't seem to take a lot of effort in getting to know). For Daphne, though, he was the dad who had abandoned him. She had an entire life history with a particular history in her mind as to what he did to her and to her mom. That's a lot to deal with and try to work through, so I totally buy that Daphne's blooming relationship with Angelo is emotionally more important than Bay's - Daphne is not exactly rewriting history, but patching large amounts of pain that have gone on her entire life, while for Bay it was just all new in the last couple of years. 

 

Apparently everything on this show involving Daphne is more important  than Bay.

 

I don't get why Bay has all the responsibility and fault of having a relationship with Angelo and/or Regina.  She's the kid.  Both Regina and Angelo know (knew) Bay wanted more of a relationship with them and they could have tried harder and made more of an effort as well.  Regina is a lost cause, and I will never think it's okay the way she treats Bay whatever her supposed reason (all excuses at this point), but Angelo could have tried more with Bay as well.  Yeah, yeah, Daphne was the daughter he left, but Bay was the daughter he never even knew he had.  He could have made a walk across the driveway too.  Yes, Bay pushed him away sometimes, but again, she's the 16-17 year old teen.  And what about all the times Daphne pushed Angelo away and didn't want anything to do with him in the past two years.  She could have told him long ago she needed him to learn ASL for her.  Is she going to be held responsible for her actions regarding Angelo and all the time she wasted?  Of course not, because Angelo left her and Angelo needed to be the one to step up.  That's as it should be, but the same goes for Bay as well.

 

The show did a lousy job of handling Angelo bonding with both girls in the episodes leading up to his death.  There's no excuse for him not having at least one-on-one scene with Bay before he died.  Bay was excited about him moving in and wanted to have a dinner, so there could have been something with that.  Something. Anything.  Even the Daphne stuff was rushed.  

 

*shrugs* I just will never understand why it's okay for Bay to get less or be treated as less because Daphne didn't have a father figure growing up and Bay did.  I guess Bay should have just left when the switch was discovered and let Daphne have the whole family to herself.  I mean, she obviously doesn't need any more love and attention from anyone anymore since she had a Dad growing up.

[t7686]

 

*shrugs* I just will never understand why it's okay for Bay to get less or be treated as less because Daphne didn't have a father figure growing up and Bay did.  I guess Bay should have just left when the switch was discovered and let Daphne have the whole family to herself.  I mean, she obviously doesn't need any more love and attention from anyone anymore since she had a Dad growing up.

Slow clap. I hope the writers of this show patrol this board because you're right. Sadly though, I have a feeling Bay's lack of a relationship with her bio parents won't be addressed. For whatever reason, she's the go to character for helping everyone else out or gets to relate to all the new love interests/new friends and Daphne gets the switched stuff.

[Eri]

I don't see why there is/should be a Bay vs. Daphne at all. Some people can sympathize or relate to Daphne more to Bay. Some people see Bay's side more than Daphne. I think the parents certainly handled the switch poorly but such is the route the writers chose to make of the show. Angelo's loss can be interpreted through either girls' eyes but that doesn't mean one is more important than the other. Given all the Emmett/Bay tension, I suspect they focused more on reuniting them than her relationship with her bio-parents. Is it okay? I don't think so, but Regina's chosen to accept her love for Bay at a distance and I've come to terms that they'll never have that close relationship. Regina will have to live with that guilt for the rest of her life unfortunately. I suspect she still is and it's what keeps her from forming that bond. It certainly sucks but that's life. However, I don't think Bay feels as neglected as she once felt as the start of the show because the Kennishes have made more of an effort to communicate with her effectively and in doing so earning a bit more trust. Now that she has Emmett, she has another "go to" for her emotional baggage. Daphne's emotional baggage is so unstable, it's no wonder she reaches out to any or everyone hence the constant screw-ups, she certainly is not grounded.

 

 

 

As for Bay, I think if anything she's been more than a little callous towards John and Katherine, and kind of fetishizes the idea of an exotic, foreign, artsy "real" father. It fits in with her image of the rebellious loner artist, if nothing else. John raised her from birth and is her father, but for some reason Angelo is the one coaching her through birth pains in her fantasy?? Angelo was Bay's sperm donor, nothing else. Any kind of extreme grief from her would ring very false to me (except if it's presented as her losing the fantasy of her "cool dad" who understands how misunderstood Bay was or whatever).

 

I felt that way too. To me, Bay should've been way more intrigued about meeting grandma, cousins and other relatives from Season 2, particularly after Angelo and Regina got married and he was allowed to stay in the country. But it felt as if the writers wrote it off as a novelty and had her going back to the same routine (Emmett and street art). After Abby was born, Daphne and Bay felt insecure and jealous about what they could've had with Angelo. That could've presented a window of opportunity for either of them them to have Angelo-bonding and nothing came of it. Personally, I think the writers have implied that Emmett and the Kennishes have been enough for Bay and always have been; she's just been too proud to admit it because it's not in her personality to admit such things to herself out of fear. She trusts them more than she ever would Regina or Angelo, blood relation or not. The same for Daphne never really reaching out to the Kennishes during serious times - i.e. food truck incident, asking for favors, college funds, etc. I was really surprised that Bay would've gone to John about admitting being a cheater more than Angelo - someone who always feared being cheated on since her time of birth. I can see a lot more of Kathryn in Bay than I ever could Regina because the woman is a mess (like Daphne).

 

The switch did bring two families somewhat together, but in this show, I *don't* think that blood is thicker than water, and I'm okay with that.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Eri