Hamilton (2020)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 hours ago, Brookside said:

It would be a gift if Disney was broadcasting it for free.

Does anyone know whether Disney is sharing any of the $gajillians they're making off this with the now (presumably) unemployed cast and crew?  Somehow I doubt it.

I'm not here to defend Disney, but they paid $75 million for the film rights so that THEY could make a profit, not so they could give money to the cast and crew. It's up to the Hamilton producers who negotiated the film rights to share any profit with the cast members.

Considering how much tickets cost to see the show live, paying $7 for a month of Disney+ to watch Hamilton is pretty cheap. I've paid way more than $7 to see a movie or a local theater company's play. Hell, I've bought tickets to shows where the service fees were way more than $7. It would make no sense for Disney to pay $75 million for the film rights and then let people watch it for free. From a business perspective, that's just dumping $75 million in the garbage and getting nothing back, which is a terrible way to run a business. I have issues with some of Disney's practices, but they were smart to get the rights to this and charge a very nominal monthly fee (it's cheaper than Netflix).

Although I totally agree that people should be supporting artists right now because they're all unemployed (the Broadway community alone has thousands of cast and crew members who are currently out of work due to the coronavirus), the Hamilton cast seen in this film version are probably doing okay (minus two ensemble members who are shown in the film but who were not OBC*). Back in 2016, the Hamilton OBC (and some of the stage managers) negotiated with the producers and as a result, they will split 1% of net profits from the Broadway production and 0.33% from all other US productions (meaning the Chicago sit down and the other three tour companies - excluded from this contract are any future revivals).

For reference, this article estimated that the Broadway production grossed $100 million in ticket sales in 2016.  This 2018 article estimated Hamilton's gross earnings to be $700 million and each of the OBC member receiving approximately $30,000 in profit sharing that year. Obviously that isn't enough to retire on, but the last OBC principal left the show in 2016 (and all of the ensemble but one person have left the show) so they've all been receiving royalties for a few years now.

They filmed the show a few months later (the negotiations concluded in February and this was shot at the end of June) with the intent of it being released theatrically at some point, so I assume that they reached an additional agreement about how they would handle selling the film rights and any profit sharing that came solely from the film so that it wouldn't be an issue down the road when it was eventually released, but those negotiations weren't publicized (the original profit sharing negotiations were a HUGE deal and were in the press).

As a result of the Hamilton cast's profit sharing negotiation, the union ended up changing a 40+ year old agreement about royalties for shows developed in a similar way to Hamilton.

Quote

Some performers, especially in musicals, have benefited from a standard royalty arrangement used for workshop productions, in which actors earn a relatively low salary but are due a share of the show’s weekly operating profit and an option to continue in the role if and when the show is mounted as a full production. These rules, negotiated by Actors’ Equity, have been in place since 1974, and many successful shows, including “The Book of Mormon,” have used them to compensate performers who contribute to a show in its earliest days. But the rules do not apply to “developmental labs,” a process similar to a workshop that pays actors more upfront but does not include potential royalties or a right of first refusal on their role in a future production. Labs have become more popular in the past decade or so, leaving actors who participate without an easy way to negotiate a stake in the production they helped create.

[...]

After a five-week strike (which did not affect shows that were already running), Actors’ Equity came to an agreement with the Broadway League to update the contract governing developmental labs. Under the new rules, actors who take part in a Broadway show’s early development will split 1 percent of the show’s profits – after the original investment is recouped – for the first 10 years of the run, including money generated by touring productions of the show. The agreement also included an increase to base salary for actors participating in developmental labs.

* Emmy Raver-Lampman and Betsy Struxness were OBC ensemble members. Betsy left the show six months into the Broadway run. Emmy left the show to play Pearl in the original pre-Broadway run of the SpongeBob SquarePants musical in Chicago. In the filmed version, they were replaced by Hope Easterbrook and Elizabeth Judd so those are the only two people you see on the screen who aren't getting paid royalties for the Broadway show, but they are part of whatever film royalties the cast collectively negotiated.

27 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I could see a case for leaving her out altogether (hence “... And Peggy”), but you know people would be all “But there were THREE sisters!”

There were actually five Schuyler sisters who survived to adulthood (in total there were 15 Schuyler children born but only eight lived to be adults). The other two Schuyler sisters were much younger. Cornelia was born in 1776 and Catherine was born in 1781. In comparison, Angelica was born in 1756, Eliza was born in 1757, and Peggy was born in 1758.

31 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

The real Peggy didn’t live very long. She married very well and died pretty young. Both Jasmine Cephas-Jones & LMM get this question a lot, and that’s what they say.

She eloped with a distant cousin (his last name was the same as Peggy's mother's maiden name) when she was 25 and he was 19. He inherited his father's estate when he turned 21. They had three children (only one survived to adulthood), but Peggy died when she was only 42. Her husband remarried the following year and had nine more children.

4 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

"The Schuyler Sisters" was originally written because the actresses who played Eliza/Angelica/Peggy-and-Maria were very close backstage and so that song was a nod to that. 

The song was already in the workshop but LMM added a lot more harmonies for them because Pippa, Renée, and Jasmine were always singing in harmonies about EVERYTHING. There is a video of them singing about a pear that is very typical of their backstage impromptu harmonizing (they're literally just singing "a pear, a pear, a pear" in harmony).

[angora]

36 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Considering how much tickets cost to see the show live, paying $7 for a month of Disney+ to watch Hamilton is pretty cheap. I've paid way more than $7 to see a movie or a local theater company's play. Hell, I've bought tickets to shows where the service fees were way more than $7. It would make no sense for Disney to pay $75 million for the film rights and then let people watch it for free. From a business perspective, that's just dumping $75 million in the garbage and getting nothing back, which is a terrible way to run a business. I have issues with some of Disney's practices, but they were smart to get the rights to this and charge a very nominal monthly fee (it's cheaper than Netflix).

Heck, even with filmed recordings of stage shows, they usually cost more than the average movie ticket when they're shown in cinemas (in my area, a regular movie ticket is $9-12, and a ticket for a showing of a filmed stage show is generally $15-20.) So I agree, $7 to see it as many times as you want in a month is a steal.

Another consideration for including Peggy - having the three of them in "The Schuyler Sisters" gives off much more of a girl-group vibe than if there were only two of them. From the Supremes to Destiny's Child to TLC, you need to have at least three.

[Empress1]

6 hours ago, mojoween said:

I know streamers doesn’t usually release their data, but I am dying to know how many new subscriptions Disney+ had on Friday and also how many downloads of the film there were over the weekend.

Some data info.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I'm not here to defend Disney, but they paid $75 million for the film rights so that THEY could make a profit, not so they could give money to the cast and crew. It's up to the Hamilton producers who negotiated the film rights to share any profit with the cast members.

I agree.  I'm more concerned about how Disney pays the cast members who work at Disney World/Disney Land while the parks are/were closed as that's more of their direct responsibility than Broadway.

It'd be great if this were offered for free but as it is, it's deeply discounted and basically a free "add on" to many customers who either already subscribed to Disney+ or signed up for the year-long free trial that was offered to customers of other products. (I signed up for my free one year as soon as this was announced.

Disney could have easily gone the $20 VOD route which has been how many studios have been doing it.  Good for families.  Not so much for people who want to watch on their own. $7 for a month, which includes other content, is definitely a loss leader for Disney.  Not that it's an altruistic move, of course,  They're hoping those who signed up for the app will stick around or get lazy and not cancel.

[Shannon L.]

Not only is $7 cheaper than most movie tickets, but if you had a family of 4, that movie, at $7, would cost $28. I'm not a fan of Disney's practices, but I'm ok with this one. The VOD option could have brought them more money and they didn't require a 3 month contract for signing up, even though I'm sure they were aware that a lot of people would sign up and cancel after a month.

[AheadofStraight]

There is some discussion about money in this interview with Leslie Odom Jr. He doesn't give specifics of course, but implies that his child and her children will still be getting royalties.

 

 

[mojoween]

I’ve had the $13 bundle since November so I don’t know this - does Disney+ get seven bucks up front, or can you cancel in 30 days and not pay at all?

[Brookside]

21 minutes ago, AheadofStraight said:

There is some discussion about money in this interview with Leslie Odom Jr. He doesn't give specifics of course, but implies that his child and her children will still be getting royalties.

 

 

Thanks for the link - this is the kind of information I was looking for.

[Browncoat]

2 hours ago, mojoween said:

I’ve had the $13 bundle since November so I don’t know this - does Disney+ get seven bucks up front, or can you cancel in 30 days and not pay at all?

They get seven bucks up front.  I signed up through AppleTV, and they took it out of a balance I had in my iTunes account.

[Growsonwalls]

The Disney+/Hulu/ESPN+ bundle is great. As for Leslie Odom Jr's interview he was the holdout for filming the show and I think there was some bad blood between him  and Lin for awhile.  But they've done a bunch of interviews promoting the film together so I think they're cool now.

[GaT]

We bought a new TV a few months ago & it came with a year of Disney+ so I'm covered.

[mojoween]

When Eliza was reading the letter to Alexander from John Laurans’s father, on the rafters behind them you can see Lafayette and Hercules also reading letters and that is one part I wish they had stayed pulled back, because I wanted to see what their reactions were too. 

[Shannon L.]

This is the reason I need to watch it a few more time.  The details I missed:

 

[scarynikki12]

I remember the cast member moving the bullet from Burr's gun as Hamilton delivers his final lines when I saw the show but I had no idea that there was this whole backstory behind it. And each member of the cast has a complete story in the show??? I really don't need a reason to watch this a million times but I'll take it.

I will say that this attention to detail will also make the future movie even harder to pull off. Not impossible, and I like to imagine the future director being a huge fan who spends years just mentally putting together a movie long before the opportunity arrives, but super hard.

Speaking of the future movie, Lin's been fairly consistent in wanting to wait. A few years ago he said it was going to be twenty years and I honestly think it will be or close to it. He wanted In The Heights made first, before even bringing Hamilton to the table, and he's also enjoying writing songs for Disney and exploring other creative options. Personally I hope he waits until Auliʻi Cravalho is old enough to play Eliza (my pick) so at least ten more years.

[Morrigan2575]

I have a question. As I was rewatching this morning I noticed that in the opening number everyone is in white except for Burr.  

Has any thought, analysis, Q&A been done on that? I know Burr serves as the narrator so that could be the answer. However, i wondered if there was some other meaning? 

Also, was LMM inspired by Amadeus? This had a very Amadeus/Salieri vibe to the Hamilton/Burr relationship.

I read about Bullet yesterday it's quite brilliant. This musical is amazing, the songs are infectious from start to finish. The cast is wonderful, I especially loved Daveed Diggs's Jefferson.

[lurkerbee]

12 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Also, was LMM inspired by Amadeus? This had a very Amadeus/Salieri vibe to the Hamilton/Burr relationship.

On today's WTF, Marc Maron and John Legend were discussing Jesus Christ Superstar and Marc said that Lin-Manuel Miranda told him that he patterned Hamilton after JCS.  I'd made that observation to a friend a few months ago. Judas and Burr have a bit in common.

Edited July 7, 2020 by lurkerbee
It's JCS not JCC.

[Fukui San]

Now that I've finally seen Hamilton, is it weird that while I think it's objectively wonderful, I'm somewhat sad that hip hop's first breakthrough hit Broadway musical wasn't about hip hop but about old, dead white men? I know, the incongruity of having an almost entirely People of Color cast claiming and commandeering the founding fathers has power, but I wish that it was, like, the third or fourth big Broadway hip hop musical and not the first.

I knew that hip hop would eventually make it to Broadway. I predicted it in college in the 90's. And I know I'm looking at this through 2020 eyes, but part of me is unsatisfied.

[Morrigan2575]

25 minutes ago, lurkerbee said:

On today's WTF, Marc Maron and John Legend were discussing Jesus Christ Superstar and Marc said that Lin-Manuel Miranda told him that he patterned Hamilton after JCC.  I'd made that observation to a friend a few months ago. Judas and Burr have a bit in common.

 I never saw Jesus Christ Superstar. Must be why I went to Amadeus. Guess this is a pretty standard trope

[ECM1231]

On 7/4/2020 at 4:05 PM, SoMuchTV said:

Maybe this is the place to say this.  I've heard interviews with both LMM and Daveed Diggs (maybe Fresh Air?  Bullseye?) where they both expressed a little bit of frustration with all the people who came up to them and said, I don't care for rap/hiphop, but I loved Hamilton.  Can I express another side?  I can't tolerate about 99% of musical theater, but I loved Hamilton.  I don't know if that will make them feel better or worse!

I honestly don't know why Lin Manuel Miranda would be frustrated with people saying that they don't care for rap. Don't most people prefer certain music genres over others?  For me, I don't care for country music.  I dislike rap as well and chalk it up to my age (63) as my era was the 70s. I grew up hearing a lot of Sinatra so I appreciate the standards of the 40s and 50s, which is why I enjoy listening to Diana Krall, Michael Buble, and Tony Bennett.  

I didn't know what to expect honestly. Living in a suburb of NYC I saw my share of Broadway shows while younger, especially as a grad student. We'd stand in line at the half-price TKTS booth for Wednesday matinees. Nowadays the ticket prices are just so exorbitant and Hamilton tickets, especially, were a hot commodity.

All this to say, I knew nothing of the show except its premise and of course had seen LMM as he made the rounds. I knew it won a lot of Tony awards but other than that I went in cold last night. I loved it and I'm one of those people who don't like rap/hip hop music.  I was a bit confused in the beginning b/c it was so fast-paced and I didn't really understand what was going on but as it progressed, it got easier. I found some actors enunciated better than others.  The entire cast was marvelous and I am sure deserved all their awards.  I don't really know much about the theater world or who are the current big names so I was shocked to see "Chunk" from the TV show "Bull" as George Washington. I had NO idea he was a theater performer. And what a performer he was!  Just fantastic.

All I can say is WOW! Lin Manuel Miranda is a genius!!!

[angora]

25 minutes ago, Fukui San said:

Now that I've finally seen Hamilton, is it weird that while I think it's objectively wonderful, I'm somewhat sad that hip hop's first breakthrough hit Broadway musical wasn't about hip hop but about old, dead white men? I know, the incongruity of having an almost entirely People of Color cast claiming and commandeering the founding fathers has power, but I wish that it was, like, the third or fourth big Broadway hip hop musical and not the first.

I knew that hip hop would eventually make it to Broadway. I predicted it in college in the 90's. And I know I'm looking at this through 2020 eyes, but part of me is unsatisfied.

If it helps, LMM's In the Heights was on Broadway in 2008, and that was a mix of hip hop and Latin music. It wasn't the monster mainstream hit that Hamilton is, but it won 4 Tonys (including Best Score and Best Musical) and ran for 3 years. It's not a show "about" hip hop, but the characters in it who rap are definitely all about hip hop culture and it's about a neighborhood block where everyone is just doing what they can to get by.

I see the Jesus Christ Superstar and Amadeus comparisons. It's also struck me, when you look at the narrative journey for Hamilton himself, it follows the same general trajectory of a musical biopic: starts from nothing, meteoric rise to fame through hard work and talent, career takes a major hit after scandals brought on by self-destructive behaviors. Those stories usually end either with the musician pulling themselves back from the brink/making a comeback OR with a tragic death, and in a way Hamilton does both. He reconciles with Eliza and has important relevance on the political stage again, but then of course, we get to the duel. Makes it easy to see why, in that video of LMM demo-ing the opening number at that White House event, he says he feels Alexander Hamilton exemplifies hip hop.

[thuganomics85]

Hamilton newbie here.  Obviously, I heard all about the play and how successful it was, but I never saw it until now.  I also managed to mainly avoid hearing any of the songs before now.  Definitely lived up to the hype and I've already got the soundtrack downloaded now!

The cast as obviously great.  A nice mixture of performers I'm familiar with like Lin-Manuel Miranda (of course), Leslie Odom Jr., Renee Elise Goldsberry, Anthony Ramos, and Daveed Diggs, and ones I wasn't too familiar with like Christopher Jackson, Okieriete Onaodowan, and Phillipa Soo.  Everyone was spot-on in their roles, but I think my favorites were Diggs (especially as Jefferson), Odom Jr. (I can see why he won the Tony), Goldsberry (same), and Soo.  Oh, and Jonathan Groff certainly made the most of his stage time.  Every bit with King George was golden.  But, really, everyone was given their time in the spotlight, and more than brought it home.  I'll be curious to see other takes on these roles if I ever can get to see a live performance, but I'm glad they were able to get all of these talent folks for this one!

No surprise, the songs were all fantastic.  Not sure which one is my favorite, but as of now, "Satisfied" is the one that is stuck in my head, so that's probably a major contender for the spot.

I had no idea how much was going to be going on with the stage production and so forth.  It really is impressive how much they can do these days and how seamless it was.  The director for this filming really did a good job capturing all of that, alongside the performances.

I now want to actually read up on the real Hamilton, Burr, and so forth.  Actually, Eliza seems like she really had an interesting life too.  Obviously, I know a lot of aspects were exaggerated here, but I'm curious to know more about this time period and the players involved.

Only disappointment I have is knowing that real political meetings didn't involve rap battles!

Lin-Manuel Miranda really might be one of the most creative minds in the industry right now.

Glad I got to see this.  I knew my Disney+ subscription was worth more than just watching the Star Wars shows and eventual Marvel shows!

 

 

 

[Shannon L.]

Does anyone know if this is going to be on after July? I read that it would be in for a while,  but a FB friend quoted something that said we could view it through the end of July.  I can't seem to find a straight answer.

[Juneau Gal]

51 minutes ago, Shannon L. said:

Does anyone know if this is going to be on after July? I read that it would be in for a while,  but a FB friend quoted something that said we could view it through the end of July.  I can't seem to find a straight answer.

Lin Manuel Miranda has stated that it will be available for a the foreseeable future to watch on Disney +. 

[GaT]

4 minutes ago, Juneau Gal said:

Lin Manuel Miranda has stated that it will be available for a the foreseeable future to watch on Disney +. 

That's good, because of various circumstances, I just can't concentrate enough to watch it.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

15 hours ago, angora said:

Heck, even with filmed recordings of stage shows, they usually cost more than the average movie ticket when they're shown in cinemas (in my area, a regular movie ticket is $9-12, and a ticket for a showing of a filmed stage show is generally $15-20.) So I agree, $7 to see it as many times as you want in a month is a steal.

I've seen a bunch of recorded stage shows (off the top of my head, Allegiance, Kinky Boots, and Bandstand) and they're usually around $20 plus fees per ticket. In terms of quality, Hamilton had a lot more camera angles.

4 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

 I don't really know much about the theater world or who are the current big names so I was shocked to see "Chunk" from the TV show "Bull" as George Washington. I had NO idea he was a theater performer. And what a performer he was!  Just fantastic.

Chris Jackson actually got his start in theater! He got cast in an off-Broadway musical (by the same guy who composed Hair) when he was only 20. After that he was cast in the ensemble of The Lion King on Broadway and worked his way up to the role of Simba before being in LMM's In the Heights. He did several other Broadway shows (including a short lived musical about Tupac) between In the Heights and Hamilton. By all accounts, he is the sweetest guy. Ari'el Stachel, who won the Tony for Best Featured Actor in a Musical (the same category that Chris Jackson was nominated for with Hamilton), had such a nice story about him (this is a clip from a much longer interview and the context is that he was talking about how few roles there are for Middle Eastern actors but he wanted to pursue musical theater despite knowing that):

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

In case anyone was wondering: Hamilton Movie Won’t Be Eligible at Next Year’s Oscars

[Morrigan2575]

Bummer, LMM only needs the Oscar fot the EGOT

[Shannon L.]

8 hours ago, Juneau Gal said:

Lin Manuel Miranda has stated that it will be available for a the foreseeable future to watch on Disney +. 

Thanks!

In today's environment, Hamilton is being viewed differently by some people.  Yesterday, Lin responded to the critics:

Lin-Manuel Miranda Responds To Criticism Of Hamilton's Portrayal Of Slavery

In a tweet posted on Monday, July 6, Miranda, the show’s creator and writer who also originated the role of the title character, responded to podcast host Tracy Clayton’s Twitter thread, in which she wrote that Hamilton should be criticized — specifically for its treatment of slavery — as this new wave of criticism speaks to people’s increased awareness of social issues and the ability to change opinions, even as a fan of the show. "Appreciate you so much, @brokeymcpoverty. All the criticisms are valid," he wrote, explaining that he wished that he could have incorporated more information and context into the musical. “The sheer tonnage of complexities & failings of these people I couldn’t get. Or wrestled with but cut. I took 6 years and fit as much as I could in a 2.5 hour musical. Did my best. It’s all fair game.”

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 7/7/2020 at 4:01 AM, Morrigan2575 said:

Bummer, LMM only needs the Oscar fot the EGOT

Honestly, he deserved an Oscar for Moana. How Far I'll Go >>>>>>>> City of Stars.

ETA: just in case you need a refresher on both songs before you take a side

How Far I'll Go:

City of Stars:

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Morrigan2575]

15 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Honestly, he deserved an Oscar for Moana. How Far I'll Go >>>>>>>> City of Stars.

I thought he got the Oscar for Moana. I figured he was missing an Emmy. When I saw her had EGT and only needed the Oscar i figured this would get it for him.

Maybe when In the Heights gets released.

[mojoween]

I could have sworn that Lin tweeted before Friday that “southern motherfucking democratic republicans” was one of the two fucks that got through, but I guess not.  Maybe the “ing” made it too much for the PG-13 censors.

[Fukui San]

I found it amusing that the "Fucks" were so famously meted out, but "Shits" were liberally sprinkled through the show.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

44 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I could have sworn that Lin tweeted before Friday that “southern motherfucking democratic republicans” was one of the two fucks that got through, but I guess not.  Maybe the “ing” made it too much for the PG-13 censors.

Per LMM's tweet, Hercules Mulligan’s “I get the fuck back up again” in “Yorktown” was muted and “Southern motherfuckin’ Democratic Republicans!” in “Washington on Your Side” was covered up with a record scratch. The one that was left in was in "Say No to This." I didn't think that one should count since technically, it's "fuuuuuuuuuuu" without the "ck" at the end, but I guess the MPAA disagreed with me.

 

27 minutes ago, Fukui San said:

I found it amusing that the "Fucks" were so famously meted out, but "Shits" were liberally sprinkled through the show.

The fucks only got censored because the MPAA rule is that 1 fuck = PG-13 but 2+ fucks = R rating. Disney+ wanted this to have a PG-13 rating so they they had to cut two of the three fucks in the show. But the MPAA is apparently fine with shit and sexual references so none of that had to be edited out!

Edited July 7, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The story of The Bullet. I love that there is this whole narrative about one person in the ensemble now, but what I love even more is that Ariana DeBose used this opportunity to market herself. She was the one who started describing herself as "the original Bullet in Hamilton."

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I thought he got the Oscar for Moana. I figured he was missing an Emmy. When I saw her had EGT and only needed the Oscar i figured this would get it for him.

Maybe when In the Heights gets released.

I was sure he would win for Moana because that song was great and Auliʻi Cravalho performed it so well. I was shocked and disappointed when that boring La La Land song won instead.

He won an Emmy in 2014 for writing the opening song for the 67th Tony Awards.

 

[mojoween]

I’m on viewing, nine, I think, and yet when Eliza screams when Phillip dies, I STILL tear up. 

Also during “Helpless” Philippa runs across the stage while singing and WUT.  Also how.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

13 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I’m on viewing, nine, I think, and yet when Eliza screams when Phillip dies, I STILL tear up. 

Also during “Helpless” Philippa runs across the stage while singing and WUT.  Also how.  

One of my favorite things about the recent glut of interviews was when Daveed and Oak were talking about how Phillipa is doing 97 million different things and still singing perfectly during Helpless. I love that they really appreciated just how much work she was doing (and making it look so effortless).

Even if I'm just listening to the soundtrack (no visuals), as soon as I hear the first notes of It's Quiet Uptown, I have a totally Pavlovian response and my eyes start to tear up.

Edited July 7, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[angora]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Honestly, he deserved an Oscar for Moana. How Far I'll Go >>>>>>>> City of Stars.

Quoted for TRUTH. I love that song and thought LMM had it in the bag. Another reason to dislike La La Land. But like I said upthread, he’s writing a few new songs for the live-action Little Mermaid with Alan Menken, so Disney is dedicated to giving him opportunities to win his Oscar one way or another. (Unless he wrote any new music for the In the Heights movie? I’d be cool with that too.)

I appreciate that LMM isn’t shutting down the criticism. I know that, watching it now in 2020, it definitely stood out to me that Washington is mostly let off the hook while it’s the antagonistic Jefferson who’s highlighted as being a slaveowner. The show has blind spots, but it also accomplished a lot of incredible things too. I think it’s all right to love something while still acknowledging the places where it could’ve been better.

[AheadofStraight]

 

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Chris Jackson actually got his start in theater! He got cast in an off-Broadway musical (by the same guy who composed Hair) when he was only 20. After that he was cast in the ensemble of The Lion King on Broadway and worked his way up to the role of Simba before being in LMM's In the Heights. He did several other Broadway shows (including a short lived musical about Tupac) between In the Heights and Hamilton. By all accounts, he is the sweetest guy. Ari'el Stachel, who won the Tony for Best Featured Actor in a Musical (the same category that Chris Jackson was nominated for with Hamilton), had such a nice story about him (this is a clip from a much longer interview and the context is that he was talking about how few roles there are for Middle Eastern actors but he wanted to pursue musical theater despite knowing that):

 

Chris was also a member, with LMM, of Freestyle Love Supreme. They do improv with rapping. The group is hysterical. Lots of YouTubes out there and a documentary on them coming out July 17th on Hulu. https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/hulus-lin-manuel-miranda-doc-we-are-freestyle-love-supreme-gets-a-new-premiere-date/ar-BB15V2oC

16 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I have a question. As I was rewatching this morning I noticed that in the opening number everyone is in white except for Burr.  

 

I sat staring at this question for so long with a HUH?!?! expression because I missed the "in" in the phrase "everyone is in white". Guess I didn't have enough coffee this morning! 😂  I don't remember reading anything about that in the Hamilton book (but it's been awhile!) but I'll check when I have a chance to see if it is mentioned.

[mojoween]

Ok so I did not know that James Madison was sickly before watching Hamilton and while looking it up I discovered that he was our smallest president at 5’ 4” and it made me laugh so hard because Oak is ... not.

[hoodooznoodooz]

On 7/4/2020 at 12:42 PM, peggy06 said:

Maybe it's because I only know this from watching the show on Disney+, but why does everyone laugh when he goes into character as AH to say the name? I didn't think that was funny or even really meant to be funny.

I watched 20 minutes of “Hamilton,” and I don’t like it. Am I too stupid? Am I too old? The only musicals I like are The Sound of Music, Little Shop of Horrors and My Fair Lady. 

For the record:

I thought the lyrics were brilliant.

The cinematography was beautiful.

The cast was beautiful.

The cast was talented.

The cast was very interesting.

The sets were beautiful.

The lighting was great.

The costumes were great.

But the rap/music was boring. And I like rap!

[Shannon L.]

3 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I watched 20 minutes of “Hamilton,” and I don’t like it. Am I too stupid? Am I too old? The only musicals I like are The Sound of Music, Little Shop of Horrors and My Fair Lady. 

For the record:

I thought the lyrics were brilliant.

The cinematography was beautiful.

The cast was beautiful.

The cast was talented.

The cast was very interesting.

The sets were beautiful.

The lighting was great.

The costumes were great.

But the rap/music was boring. And I like rap!

Just out of curiosity, what song was the last one you heard?  I like some parts better than others in the beginning of the show, but it didn't really kick in for me until The Battle of Yorktown and then the second half (but, if you didn't like it because the rap was "boring", then that's not really going to change, although Guns and Ships is impressive.  You might enjoy the two rap battles, too, but they are also in the second half).  It wasn't until I listened to the soundtrack a second and third time that I truly appreciated and thoroughly enjoyed what I was hearing.  Back to the rap music:  I call it "rap-lite" and more in line with very early/new rap back in the early 80s.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Shannon L.

[hoodooznoodooz]

1 hour ago, Shannon L. said:

Just out of curiosity, what song was the last one you heard?  I like some parts better than others in the beginning of the show, but it didn't really kick in for me until The Battle of Yorktown and then the second half (but, if you didn't like it because the rap was "boring", then that's not really going to change, although Guns and Ships is impressive.  You might enjoy the two rap battles, too, but they are also in the second half).  It wasn't until I listened to the soundtrack a second and third time that I truly appreciated and thoroughly enjoyed what I was hearing.  Back to the rap music:  I call it "rap-lite" and more in line with very early/new rap back in the early 80s.

Oh, thank you very much for taking the time to explain. I am going give it another try, and will at least be sure to watch “Guns and Ships.”

[mojoween]

Does anyone know (I feel like you might, EB!) if every time Christopher Jackson sang the last note in “One Last Time” he always started to cry?

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I watched 20 minutes of “Hamilton,” and I don’t like it. Am I too stupid? Am I too old? The only musicals I like are The Sound of Music, Little Shop of Horrors and My Fair Lady.

I don't think age has anything to do with it if you only like three musicals. Musicals just might not be your thing.

But I will say in partial solidarity that even though I love musicals, unlike most people who see it (or so it seems) it's not really a fave of mine.  I thought part of my feelings were influenced by the fact that when I saw it live, people in the seat next to me sang along the whole time. (I didn't pay hundreds to hear you, assholes.)  But when I watched on streaming, with captions and everything, I was still not in love even though I can totally appreciate the unbelievable skill that went into making it. 

And unlike most people who prefer the first act, I think it's the second act where things come together more.  The music also tends to blend more melodious (?) songs with the rap while the first half is more rap (or rap-lite) heavy.

[Shannon L.]

53 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Oh, thank you very much for taking the time to explain. I am going give it another try, and will at least be sure to watch “Guns and Ships.”

You're welcome! Keep in mind, though, Guns and Ships still isn't like the rap you'd hear in the radio, but it's super fast and impressive that the actor manages it so well.  Like @Irlandesa said, musicals may not really be your thing.  I agree with her (him?) That it's hard not to appreciate what Lin and the cast was able to accomplish.  I hope you can at least get through it once and if you still don't like it, you won't be the only one  🙂

18 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

 

And unlike most people who prefer the first act, I think it's the second act where things come together more.  The music also tends to blend more melodious (?) songs with the rap while the first half is more rap (or rap-lite) heavy.

With a few exceptions,  the 2nd half is my favorite,  too.

[Fukui San]

 

6 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I watched 20 minutes of “Hamilton,” and I don’t like it. Am I too stupid? Am I too old? The only musicals I like are The Sound of Music, Little Shop of Horrors and My Fair Lady.

But the rap/music was boring. And I like rap!

I think people coming to this as Hip Hop fans receive this differently than people coming to this as musical fans. The raps are good and clever, but we've seen these moves before for decades. LMM curated rap's history and tactics and successfully adapted it to the stage, but are these the greatest rap songs we've ever heard? No. It's a neat trick, but no.

[anna0852]

One of the things that impressed me most was the credits. Not only did the recognizable actors get their own moment but so did each member of the ensemble. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 7/5/2020 at 7:54 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

And just for fun, this is Weird Al's Hamildrops polka medley:

 

On 7/5/2020 at 8:47 AM, SoMuchTV said:

OMG.  I haven't been able to keep up with the many (I'm sure excellent) clips that have been posted, but I just had to check out the Weird Al one.  Can't say I regret it.

 

On 7/5/2020 at 9:21 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I KNOW!!!!! I wish he’d done a video! Would have loved to see that! Al is another genius!

 

On 7/5/2020 at 10:08 AM, Luckylyn said:

The casts made their own video of the Hamilton Polka

FYI - Weird Al released a new video for the Hamilton Polka with footage from the film!

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[mojoween]

“Burr, uh, when you see Hamilton, thank him, for the endorsement.”

I bet Lin had no idea when he wrote that line just how much Daveed would absolutely kill it.

Edited July 8, 2020 by mojoween

[Growsonwalls]

This is amazing: