S02.E05: Scream Therapy

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Fighting her new reality, Betty goes on the offense.

Original air date: 6/23/20

[Christina]

Why was Betty sent to jail? The wind knocked my electric out and when it came back, the judge was sentencing her to jail.

When it went out, she was being all sweetness and light to her son on the telephone and had told someone she thought of killing Dan a lot, and has done so many things on a routine basis to result in her being sent to jail, which thing was it on this episode?

Thank you

[Annber03]

Well. That was brutal. And to think it's only going to get even worse from here.

Sure didn't waste any time zapping any sympathy I'd been having for Betty up to this point, did they? That call with her son. Christ. She talks about how much she cares about her kids, but that call sure didn't show it. Her kids want to see her as much as she claims she wants to see them, and yet she's totally destroying her own chances of making that happen. The whole episode I kept wanting to say, "This is why you've lost custody of your kids, Betty!" 

I get her anger at Dan. I get wanting to just tell him off in no uncertain terms. If she needs to smash something, she can find a gift he'd given her during their marriage and rip it to shreds or break it or something. She has that diary she can vent all her anger into, hell, she could write a letter calling him and Linda every possible awful, vulgar name in the book to get it out of her system and then burn the letter in her backyard. Those are and would be perfectly valid ways to get her frustration and hurt and pain out. 

Yelling at her kid and constantly making him have to hear her refer to Linda as "the whore"? No. That is unacceptable. Dan was right about one thing, none of this is the kids' fault, and it flat out hurts to see them being made to feel like it is. And of course, that's what Betty wants. She wants everyone to feel as miserable as she feels, whether they deserve it or not. 

(I will say, though, that Betty did have a point about how other people still somehow manage to get visitation with their kids despite doing things that are equally as bad, if not worse.)

I also feel for everyone who's tried to help Betty and/or mediate this entire divorce proceeding, from that frustrated judge to the lawyers representing Betty and Dan to the therapist to Betty's own friends. I can only imagine the amount of times they must've felt like banging their heads against the wall. And I feel for that poor woman who had to transcribe all those awful answering machine messages. It's funny how Betty's main excuse for why she had to use the answering machine was because Dan would find other ways to silence her or use her words against her. Did she not think he'd find a way to do that here, too? 

(Says a lot about Hilary as a person, though, that even after Betty dropped her as counsel, and even after she called Betty out for not doing her part in regards to the case and paying her, she still tried to defend her in court. She would've been a great advocate for Betty and it's a damn shame she didn't keep her on longer.) 

Also, regarding Dan's response to the voicemail messages, I get him trying to get through to Betty with fines initially, but once he saw that wasn't working or scaring her away, you'd think he would've tried another method. At the very least, he should've made it a hell of a lot tougher for Betty to get onto his property. 

The bit with Betty following Dan and the kids on the road while she's decked out in bunny ears was a strange mix of absurdly funny and incredibly tense all at the same time. 

The ending definitely had my stomach sinking. Yep. It's all just straight downhill from here. 

[SuzieQ]

Well Betty's CRAZY came out tonight!!  I get that she hates his guts, but it's like she's lost every maternal instinct she ever had!  After viewing tonight, I think she's just comfortable being angry!  She was probably angry for years and thinks it's normal.  Dan was probably plotting to get out for years and she took his silence as compliance.  What a bunch of messed up people!!   I bet Dan and Linda would have been divorced by now.  He's all about image.

[Mongo Like Candy]

35 minutes ago, Christina said:

Why was Betty sent to jail? The wind knocked my electric out and when it came back, the judge was sentencing her to jail.

I think it was because of her repeated violations of Dan’s restraining order. The woman she mentioned killing Dan to was the court-ordered therapist interviewing her re: the custody hearing. 

Dan seemed extra chilling tonight when at the party he told Betty’s friend to mind her own business and attend to her own affairs. He may have had a point, but surely there was another way to make it, e.g., “Betty has a good friend in you, but please know that you don’t hear both sides of this.”

Yeah, my sympathy for Betty is almost gone. If your tactics don’t get you what you want, wouldn’t you change them? (Same goes for Dan.) And who knows even what she wants?  But she probably started from a baseline of batsh*t, and now it’s the kids who need the thick boots. 

Betty doesn’t need a journal. She needs a sledgehammer and an old car to smash, preferably one with a Dan-shaped crash test dummy in it. 

Edited June 24, 2020 by Mongo Like Candy

[lovesnark]

21 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

 

Yelling at her kid and constantly making him have to hear her refer to Linda as "the whore"? No. That is unacceptable. Dan was right about one thing, none of this is the kids' fault, and it flat out hurts to see them being made to feel like it is. And of course, that's what Betty wants. She wants everyone to feel as miserable as she feels, whether they deserve it or not. 

 

I wondered what derogatory name they'd use that would be okay for TV. In reality, Betty referred to Linda as the cunt and Dan was the cuntsucker or fuckface. What those poor children, particularly the boys had to hear come out of her deranged mouth is so heartbreaking. 

[Annber03]

6 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

I wondered what derogatory name they'd use that would be okay for TV. In reality, Betty referred to Linda as the cunt and Dan was the cuntsucker or fuckface. What those poor children, particularly the boys had to hear come out of her deranged mouth is so heartbreaking. 

Oh, shit. Yikes. 

[CraftyHazel]

The Broderick case has always stuck with me, and I’m old enough to remember when it all went down.  Not one of these adults behaved appropriately.  
Dan was an arrogant, self-important jerk.  And while he didn’t deserve to die the way he did, I seriously don’t understand why...after seeing your ex-wife repeatedly break into your home and destroy things, after being warned that she had seriously threatened to kill you, after watching her come unglued...why you wouldn’t have a burglar alarm, an attack dog, a gun, and a panic room!  You’d be alive today, Dan Broderick, if you had.  
Linda, well...you can’t steal a husband who isn’t willing to be stolen, so the affair is as much on Dan as it is on her.  No matter how much she may have come on to him, Dan would have controlled himself if he wasn’t already over Betty.  But I can’t help wonder if a little empathy towards Betty from both her and Dan wouldn’t have helped ease tensions somewhat.  Probably not, though, because...  
Betty.  Wow, what a nightmare.  I try to feel sympathy for her situation, but I honestly just can’t.  She willingly gave her kids to Dan, in an attempt to prove to him how much he needed her.  Nope.  Then, she claims she wants them back, but only if he meets her terms.  And you know, no matter how much money he was making, the fact remains that at the time she was getting a $16,000 monthly check from him.  All she had to do was stop harassing him, and grow the eff up.  I get being pissed off, but she really had herself to blame for most of her troubles.  And on a side note, after reading the excellent book on the Broderick case, I do have to wonder why Dan wasn’t taking better care of those boys!  Cold weather and no coats, taking them off to school sick, they were dirty...I just feel like, if Betty had cooled her jets, calmed down, and backed off, she would have soon won custody and child support along with it, and everyone could have lived happily ever after.  Except I do believe Dan would be on wife number four or five by now.

[Annber03]

7 minutes ago, Marmiarmo said:

Linda, well...you can’t steal a husband who isn’t willing to be stolen, so the affair is as much on Dan as it is on her.  No matter how much she may have come on to him, Dan would have controlled himself if he wasn’t already over Betty. 

This. Linda coming on to a man she knew was married was stupid, no question. But she's not the one who made the marriage vows. Dan is. He's the one who broke them by cheating. He's perfectly capable of saying, 'Not interested, I'm married" to any woman who flirted with him.

Quote

Except I do believe Dan would be on wife number four or five by now.

I agree as well. Having that showy proposal to Linda...he's always got to be the center of attention somehow (seriously, I'm about at the end of my rope with this constant, "The third" stuff whenever his name comes up somewhere.). Not the best basis for any kind of long-term relationship, and generally speaking, chances are a guy who leaves his wife for you will do the same thing to you down the line. Not always, some people do make an honest mistake and are able to repair their marriage and grow and move on. But that pattern does tend to be common.

27 minutes ago, Mongo Like Candy said:

Dan seemed extra chilling tonight when at the party he told Betty’s friend to mind her own business and attend to her own affairs. He may have had a point, but surely there was another way to make it, e.g., “Betty has a good friend in you, but please know that you don’t hear both sides of this.”

Yes! That scene got me, too. Here's a thought, Dan, if you don't want people whispering about or asking you about your situation with Betty, maybe don't go parading your new girlfriend out at all these events like she's something to show off, or have a public proposal for Linda. Maybe don't sit and chat with your lawyer buddies about all the ways a guy can screw over his wife in a divorce. Maybe try saving your calls to Betty about things regarding your divorce for when you're not at work and quit expecting the people who work for you to do things like transcribe the awful answering machine messages.

Things like that. He already knows this case is a big source of gossip among those in his circle, so one would think he'd do more on his part to try and keep his personal life separate from his work life, at least for the time being, until things calmed down (which, granted, in this case, was taking a ridiculously long time to happen, but still). 

[lovesnark]

15 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Oh, shit. Yikes. 

I know. Most of what she said to them can't be said on TV. She would ask the boys if Dan and Linda were having sex right then and there (but she said it in the most vulgar way possible) and told anyone who would listen that Dan and Linda had sex all the time with the bedroom door open.

I highly recommend Bella Stumbo's book. It details the depths of Betty's rage and downright insanity very well.

[Annber03]

6 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

I know. Most of what she said to them can't be said on TV. She would ask the boys if Dan and Linda were having sex right then and there (but she said it in the most vulgar way possible) and told anyone who would listen that Dan and Linda had sex all the time with the bedroom door open.

I highly recommend Bella Stumbo's book. It details the depths of Betty's rage and downright insanity very well.

I'll definitely keep that book in mind, then. It sounds fascinating and horrifying in equal measure. 

God, those poor children. Honestly, watching this episode and seeing Betty just completely fall apart and harass them as she did, I kept thinking it was a miracle they got out of this alive. 

[lovesnark]

20 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I'll definitely keep that book in mind, then. It sounds fascinating and horrifying in equal measure. 

God, those poor children. Honestly, watching this episode and seeing Betty just completely fall apart and harass them as she did, I kept thinking it was a miracle they got out of this alive. 

Their children are living proof of how resilient children can be. They struggled some, but have come out of the trauma they all had to endure to become happy, productive adults. I'd like to give each one of them a huge hug!

[VagueDisclaimer]

What I still don’t understand, what I don’t think the series has portrayed, is why Dan went about everything as visciously and cruelly as possible. Look, unhappy in a marriage, get a divorce, whatever. Cheating is a sign of pure disrespect for what the marriage and the person, imo. But Dan seemed to take pure pleasure in absolutely destroying her, happy to lead her on just to make sure the fall would hurt the most. 

I see how awful it became, very well illustrated in this episode, but other than being very driven and wanting to go bigger and better once Dan became more successful, I don’t get why when things first started to go bad, why it was *so* bad. Maybe I’m that naive or maybe I need to read one of these books because the series didn’t really show a build. Was Dan really that one-dimensional and uncaring? Was he that vengeful? I just don’t get that vengeful feeling from the start. What did Betty do to deserve that? Honestly asking here. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The person who I felt the most sorry for in this episode was Dan's secretary/assistant who had to transcribe all of the answering machine tapes he kept tossing at her. Thank goodness I never had a job where I had to do personal stuff for my boss because NOPE, I'm not about to listen to your ex rant on tape and write down every word for you.

Also not kosher: using his live-in girlfriend Linda to notarize paperwork pertaining to his divorce which was sent to his ex-wife.

Once again, Dan was a gaslighting asshole but this time it was someone besides Betty. When he dismissed Evelyn's concerns as gossip (when everything she said was actually true, which she, Dan, and Linda all knew), I just rolled my eyes. And then to add insult to injury, he attacked her and told her to concentrate on her own marriage. What a sweet guy.

Okay, I take it back. The people I felt most sorry for in this episode were her two sons who were clearly suffering. And fuck Dan for using his son as a pawn to get another tape of Betty for his secretary to transcribe. And when her poor kid begged Betty to stop saying bad words so that they could finally see her, she could not see past her anger to do the right thing even after he told her how miserable he was.

Betty and Dan were determined to make each other as miserable as possible until the bitter end. Both of them were bratty children living in adult bodies. My uncle was a lawyer and when he divorced my aunt, he did some similar things just to be a petty asshole because he wanted to make things as painful as possible. There are lots of sayings about how you never really know a person until ________ but unfortunately it many cases, you never really know a person until you divorce them and you see just how terrible they can be. In this case, Betty and Dan were both that kind of person. They manifested it differently but they cared more about hurting the other person than anything else. As Betty's lawyer pointed out, his claim that Dan wanted to get this over as quickly as possible was in direct contrast to the bazillion things he continued to file.

And Linda, if this is the way the treats his ex-wife, this is the way he'll treat you some day. People want to believe that they're special and the exception to the rule and in this case that Dan would NEVER treat her that way because he loves her and he's just doing this because his ex is crazy, but if he's a petty asshole to other people (whether it's his ex-wife or waiters), it's just a matter of time before he turns that laser beam towards you.

[Spartan Girl]

Now this is the Betty Broderick we all remember. And yeah, any sympathy I had for this version vanished with that phone call with her son. Who the hell talks that way to her own child?!

As South Park once summed up, if you always make yourself the victim, it's just an excuse to be a horrible person.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

10 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

As South Park once summed up, if you always make yourself the victim, it's just an excuse to be a horrible person.

The problem is that both Dan and Betty think of themselves as the victims without considering why the other person is doing what they do.

Dan does the typical "my ex is CRAZY!" routine, conveniently leaving out the fact that the reason she's been acting out is that he lied to her, cheated on her, tricked her into moving out of their family home, and has done everything within his power to cheat her out of their marital assets.

Betty, on the other hand, is focused on how Dan is keeping her from her kids and withholding money, conveniently  leaving out the fact that she keeps getting called to court because she breaks shit at Dan's house, harasses him with unending phone calls, and does things like drive her car into the front of his house.

They're both assholes but they're determined to paint themselves as the wounded one in this relationship without taking any responsibility for how their own actions have contributed to this absolute shit show.

[SuzieQ]

10 hours ago, Marmiarmo said:

The Broderick case has always stuck with me, and I’m old enough to remember when it all went down.  Not one of these adults behaved appropriately.  

 And you know, no matter how much money he was making, the fact remains that at the time she was getting a $16,000 monthly check from him.  All she had to do was stop harassing him, and grow the eff up.

Except I do believe Dan would be on wife number four or five by now.

This^^  Remember this was the 80's/90's.  Even in La Jolla, this was a lot of money per month.  Plus it was straight up spousal support.  If she had kept her shit together, she would have gotten her kids back and gotten child support on top of that.

Agree-Linda and Dan would not have lasted.  Linda and Betty would have probably ended up co-dependant alcoholic friends 5 years later commiserating about what a shit Dan is.

Edited June 24, 2020 by SuzieQ

[txhorns79]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Dan does the typical "my ex is CRAZY!" routine, conveniently leaving out the fact that the reason she's been acting out is that he lied to her, cheated on her, tricked her into moving out of their family home, and has done everything within his power to cheat her out of their marital assets.

I'll just say Dan should not have lied to Betty in the way he did and that speaks to his lack of character.  However, a normal person reacts to those lies by getting a good divorce settlement and keeping their ex at arm's length going forward.  They don't repeatedly break into their ex's home and trash the place.  They don't vandalize their ex's car.  They don't leave profane messages on their ex's answering machine where their children can hear.  They don't drive their car into their ex's entry hall.  My main point being is that I think there is this idea that Dan drove Betty to act the way she did, but I think Betty loses use of that argument fairly quickly.

[Madding crowd]

Betty was clearly mentally ill and her own worse enemy but Dan was a sociopath. He didn’t take care of his kids and only wanted them to hurt Betty. He egged her on in every way he could and both he and Betty told their kids way too much about their private lives. 

[DangerousMinds]

11 hours ago, Annber03 said:

This. Linda coming on to a man she knew was married was stupid, no question. But she's not the one who made the marriage vows. Dan is. He's the one who broke them by cheating. He's perfectly capable of saying, 'Not interested, I'm married" to any woman who flirted with him.

I agree as well. Having that showy proposal to Linda...he's always got to be the center of attention somehow (seriously, I'm about at the end of my rope with this constant, "The third" stuff whenever his name comes up somewhere.). Not the best basis for any kind of long-term relationship, and generally speaking, chances are a guy who leaves his wife for you will do the same thing to you down the line. Not always, some people do make an honest mistake and are able to repair their marriage and grow and move on. But that pattern does tend to be common.

Yes! That scene got me, too. Here's a thought, Dan, if you don't want people whispering about or asking you about your situation with Betty, maybe don't go parading your new girlfriend out at all these events like she's something to show off, or have a public proposal for Linda. Maybe don't sit and chat with your lawyer buddies about all the ways a guy can screw over his wife in a divorce. Maybe try saving your calls to Betty about things regarding your divorce for when you're not at work and quit expecting the people who work for you to do things like transcribe the awful answering machine messages.

Things like that. He already knows this case is a big source of gossip among those in his circle, so one would think he'd do more on his part to try and keep his personal life separate from his work life, at least for the time being, until things calmed down (which, granted, in this case, was taking a ridiculously long time to happen, but still). 

Thank you. I HATE when people blame “the other woman” for ruining a marriage. They aren’t the  ones who took vows to another person. 

[sadie]

9 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Thank you. I HATE when people blame “the other woman” for ruining a marriage. They aren’t the  ones who took vows to another person. 

I think it’s less that I “blame them” and more that it shows a pretty low moral character to pursue a married person. The idea that Linda was blameless isn’t entirely true, yes, Dan might have cheated anyway but without HER participation he wouldn’t have been cheating with HER. I would never go after a married man under the subtext of “ well it wasn’t me that took vows”, it still would make me a shitty person. I realize not everyone sees things my way. 

[cardigirl]

Well, this was tough to watch.  Betty continued to cling to the idea that she had the moral high ground, because Dan had cheated on her, and that that should afford her some protection under the law and some sympathy.  But, much to her amazement, it does not.  With the no fault divorce, she had no power over Dan, and he could willfully move his girlfriend into the family home, defy her play of leaving the kids with him to show him that he needed her mothering abilities, and at every turn, he blocked her moves.  He had ULTIMATE power over her future, and, as she saw it, she had NONE. She was supposed to just shut up and take it.  Take what ever he chose to give her and go away like a good little girl.  

I wonder.  I wonder if she had accepted his terms, if Dan Broderick (the 3rd!)  would have allowed her to go away. Or if he would have found ways to continue to diminish the settlement and make it smaller and smaller. 

Of course, Betty is outraged at being replaced.  She's outraged at the settlement and having her role in society being diminished, and she is not realizing that she could lose everything, while Dan loses nothing.

I was somewhat appalled by all of the advice given her, which was to be meek and mild and a good girl, but then again, it was the 80s, and men still pretty much ruled. It seemed to work for awhile too, she was going to have the boys for Easter, until DAN CHANGED HIS MIND.  Again, no power.  

I loved that the judge told Dan to get the girlfriend off of the answering machine.  Ha!  He saw that as manipulation.  Also loved that he recognized that Dan was prolonging things by fining her and filing all of those little grievances. 

Now, I'm not saying that Betty couldn't have fought back a different way.  Her lawyer this round seemed pretty smart. If Betty had been willing to let her do the fighting, while leaving the phone alone, she might have won back a few things. But Betty had been through so many rounds of losing, I don't know if she could see it. 

And Dan was the ultimate manipulator. He always knew which buttons to push. I've often wondered why he never changed the locks on the house he had shared with her. (Not the house they are killed in.) Or why he just didn't change phone numbers. 

Ultimately, I feel very bad for the kids. I saw some tough divorces in the 90s and the kids suffered mightly because the parents were busying hating each other so much, they couldn't see what they were doing to the kids. That is what I can never forgive Dan or Betty for. 

[Haley17]

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

And Linda, if this is the way the treats his ex-wife, this is the way he'll treat you some day. People want to believe that they're special and the exception to the rule and in this case that Dan would NEVER treat her that way because he loves her and he's just doing this because his ex is crazy, but if he's a petty asshole to other people (whether it's his ex-wife or waiters), it's just a matter of time before he turns that laser beam towards you.

This. As a family law attorney for the past 25 years I see this time and time again. The whole Dan and Betty divorce proceeding is not really that uncommon. Everything Dan and Betty have done thus far I have seen. And, unfortunately, while not common, the way the Dan/Betty situation ends is not unheard of either. 

[cardigirl]

28 minutes ago, Haley17 said:

This. As a family law attorney for the past 25 years I see this time and time again. The whole Dan and Betty divorce proceeding is not really that uncommon. Everything Dan and Betty have done thus far I have seen. And, unfortunately, while not common, the way the Dan/Betty situation ends is not unheard of either. 

Often it's a murder-suicide that is the end result. And the exhusband that is the instigator, although there was a news story not too long ago about a woman who stalked and murdered her estranged husband's girlfriend and then herself.  Really sad, sad story. 

[poeticlicensed]

Line of the night was when Dan said he wasn't trying to bait Betty. OMG, that's exactly what he was doing by changing his mind about visitation and fining her. If Dan was SOOO upset about the messages on the answering machine, how about this, don't have one? I realize this was the 80s and there were no cell phones or voicemail, but you could go to the phone company and have them block a number. Or use an answering service (can you imagine they would have gotten an earful!)  But no, Dan wanted her to keep leaving those profane messages to use as ammo in court. That in and of itself was bad, but allowing those messages to be recorded meant that the kids heard them. Answering machines in those days were little more than tape recorders, you could hear was was being recorded, which meant the kids could hear too. That's pretty twisted. 

The judge was trying to stop them both, to no avail. And Betty is losing control. And not listening to anyone, not her lawyer, her therapist or her friends. The therapist who was doing the eval gave her a roadmap to getting custody back, which she threw back in her face. Because the divorce and Betty's crazy was about Dan, the kids were just fodder to fight over. For both of them. Neither was really thinking about the kids, they were both selfish and only thinking about themselves. As I've said before, when Betty started suspecting Dan was cheating, she should have started trying to learn about the finances and collecting evidence. And hired a lawyer. She had this crazy idea that if she didn't have representation, the divorce could not proceed. 

I've lost patience with both of them. 

18 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Often it's a murder-suicide that is the end result. And the exhusband that is the instigator, although there was a news story not too long ago about a woman who stalked and murdered her estranged husband's girlfriend and then herself.  Really sad, sad story. 

The Geradot murder in PA? Yeah, that was crazy

[lovesnark]

14 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I'll just say Dan should not have lied to Betty in the way he did and that speaks to his lack of character.  However, a normal person reacts to those lies by getting a good divorce settlement and keeping their ex at arm's length going forward.  They don't repeatedly break into their ex's home and trash the place.  They don't vandalize their ex's car.  They don't leave profane messages on their ex's answering machine where their children can hear.  They don't drive their car into their ex's entry hall.  My main point being is that I think there is this idea that Dan drove Betty to act the way she did, but I think Betty loses use of that argument fairly quickly.

This. Betty had more than one attorney that could have secured a great settlement for her and the kids, but she expected them to work for free. She refused to listen to anyone who told her she'd most likely be awarded all of her attorney fees when the settlement was done. The attorney portrayed in last night's episode was doing a really good job for Betty and was digging into Dan's financials. If Betty had agreed to the offer of funding her attorney by selling the property in Colorado, it would have worked in her favor.  Instead, she accused her lawyer of conspiring with Dan. Her paranoia was really taking over, along for the ride with hatred and rage. 

After reading Stumbo's book, I've wondered if Betty's refusal to even entertain the idea of paying an attorney was partially because she had never had to manage any of the everyday household bills. Dan took care of all things financial and Betty had never even had a checking account, let alone ever written a check to the electric company or the mortgage company.  She used credit cards to buy what she wanted and had a $4000 a month 'allowance' for things like groceries and whatnot. It's like the whole concept of managing  money and paying bills was something she just couldn't grasp, so she ignored it.

 

 

 

[poeticlicensed]

3 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

After reading Stumbo's book, I've wondered if Betty's refusal to even entertain the idea of paying an attorney was partially because she had never had to manage any of the everyday household bills. Dan took care of all things financial and Betty had never even had a checking account, let alone ever written a check to the electric company or the mortgage company.  She used credit cards to buy what she wanted and had a $4000 a month 'allowance' for things like groceries and whatnot. It's like the whole concept of managing  money and paying bills was something she just couldn't grasp, so she ignored it.

 

In my opinion there would be no settlement that Betty would have been happy with, even if she came out of it with a pile of money and custody. It was all about Dan, the man who betrayed her. In her eyes, no amount of money or custody arrangement would have satisfied her. 

[cardigirl]

Well, Betty did mention percentages.  Everyone on here is talking about a "great" settlement as in $17,000 a month, but I haven't yet seen where Betty was really receiving a "great" settlement. She mentioned asking for 25%, not 50%, which probably she should have gotten, but he was not even willing to give her 25% or 10% of his worth. He nickeled and dimed her every step of the way.

Dan convinced her to buy a house he had no intention of moving into, and then tricked her out of the house she loved. Once she was out, he got tricky with the payments, sometimes never sending the money, sometimes withholding fines.  No one was holding him accountable for his legal duties. Betty had to go out of the county to find someone to represent her (first episode) because Dan had talked to all the other divorce lawyers and she couldn't use them. 

Then, he refused to pay her lawyers, as he was supposed to do, until the divorce was settled. Any fees he paid them would have been taken out of her settlement.  But he just didn't pay.  He put her in an unteneable position.  He gave her no money, took what little he gave her away, and refused to pay for what he was supposed to pay for. 

Betty did a lot wrong, but Dan did too. In fact, Dan knowingly did all of this to withhold financial support from his exwife.  He was not trying to settle the divorce but keep her from receiving any substantial financial settlement. 

Everyone says, if she had just settled for the good settlement she would have been happy.  Dan wasn't trying to give her a good settlement.  If DAN had just given her a good settlement, maybe this would have turned out differently, than if he had tried to give her as little as possible. She wanted 25% of the assets. Not 50%.  That's doable.  Why wouldn't he do that?

Because if he gave her what she asked for, then it would look like she had won.

In the end, she should have just walked away.  Let him go. Never looked back. What's life in jail, never seeing your children and grandchildren on the outside? But I wonder, if she had done that, if she would have ever seen those kids again?  

You all have lost your sympathy for Betty, I get that. But I do not, for one minute, think Dan Broderick was playing fairly.

 

 

[sadie]

5 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Well, Betty did mention percentages.  Everyone on here is talking about a "great" settlement as in $17,000 a month, but I haven't yet seen where Betty was really receiving a "great" settlement. She mentioned asking for 25%, not 50%, which probably she should have gotten, but he was not even willing to give her 25% or 10% of his worth. He nickeled and dimed her every step of the way.

Dan convinced her to buy a house he had no intention of moving into, and then tricked her out of the house she loved. Once she was out, he got tricky with the payments, sometimes never sending the money, sometimes withholding fines.  No one was holding him accountable for his legal duties. Betty had to go out of the county to find someone to represent her (first episode) because Dan had talked to all the other divorce lawyers and she couldn't use them. 

Then, he refused to pay her lawyers, as he was supposed to do, until the divorce was settled. Any fees he paid them would have been taken out of her settlement.  But he just didn't pay.  He put her in an unteneable position.  He gave her no money, took what little he gave her away, and refused to pay for what he was supposed to pay for. 

Betty did a lot wrong, but Dan did too. In fact, Dan knowingly did all of this to withhold financial support from his exwife.  He was not trying to settle the divorce but keep her from receiving any substantial financial settlement. 

Everyone says, if she had just settled for the good settlement she would have been happy.  Dan wasn't trying to give her a good settlement.  If DAN had just given her a good settlement, maybe this would have turned out differently, than if he had tried to give her as little as possible. She wanted 25% of the assets. Not 50%.  That's doable.  Why wouldn't he do that?

Because if he gave her what she asked for, then it would look like she had won.

In the end, she should have just walked away.  Let him go. Never looked back. What's life in jail, never seeing your children and grandchildren on the outside? But I wonder, if she had done that, if she would have ever seen those kids again?  

You all have lost your sympathy for Betty, I get that. But I do not, for one minute, think Dan Broderick was playing fairly.

 

 

Your whole post times 1,000%!! People saying “wow $16k a month! Why was she complaining?” Because Dan was bringing in $100,000+ a month! He was giving Betty a pittance, so unless you look at the total amounts involved you can’t say Betty should have just been happy with what he was offering. Stumbos book does a good job explaining the finances and how Dan really was dealing her dirty (maybe that’s the “Dirty” in this seasons Dirty John). And all the while he and Linda we’re taking expensive vacations, buying cars,  expensive clothes, etc - he was living it up and expecting Betty to take pennies on the dollar and just go away. Again, not a reason to murder him but could certainly help explain Bettys outrage.

[TattleTeeny]

PATTY McCORMACK!

Betty always hunches her shoulders toward a table when she's eating with friends. Is this a Betty thing or an Amanda Peet thing?

Edited June 24, 2020 by TattleTeeny

[poeticlicensed]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

Everyone says, if she had just settled for the good settlement she would have been happy.  Dan wasn't trying to give her a good settlement.  If DAN had just given her a good settlement, maybe this would have turned out differently, than if he had tried to give her as little as possible. She wanted 25% of the assets. Not 50%.  That's doable.  Why wouldn't he do that?

Disagree. IMO, no amount would have been enough for Betty. If he gave her 100% of the assets and sole custody she still would be pissed because at the heart of it, it wasn't about money and the kids, it was about Dan's lying and betrayal. Only him groveling and coming back to her would have satisfied her. 

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

You all have lost your sympathy for Betty, I get that. But I do not, for one minute, think Dan Broderick was playing fairly.

I haven't lost my sympathy for pre-shitshow Betty--or even post-shitshow Betty. Like I said before, sympathy isn't necessarily forgiving, excusing, or waving off bad acts.

Edited June 24, 2020 by TattleTeeny

[lovesnark]

7 minutes ago, poeticlicensed said:

Disagree. IMO, no amount would have been enough for Betty. If he gave her 100% of the assets and sole custody she still would be pissed because at the heart of it, it wasn't about money and the kids, it was about Dan's lying and betrayal. Only him groveling and coming back to her would have satisfied her. 

I feel like you do. She wanted to be Mrs. Daniel T. Broderick III and no amount of money was going change that. 

 

[cardigirl]

22 minutes ago, poeticlicensed said:

Disagree. IMO, no amount would have been enough for Betty. If he gave her 100% of the assets and sole custody she still would be pissed because at the heart of it, it wasn't about money and the kids, it was about Dan's lying and betrayal. Only him groveling and coming back to her would have satisfied her. 

Well, maybe.  I think it was the entire series of blows that came to her from Dan. The betrayal, and then him pulling all the little stunts he did. 

Believe me, I've seen men do this to their wives of 20-25 years;  hide assets, lie to them, gaslight them, frustrate them entirely, all the while making it seem like the exwives are the unreasonable ones, while they go off with their latest trophy-wife, seemingly unphased financially or emotionally by the divorce. 

Most of the women I know did settle for what the courts gave them.  If it was in the 70s or early 80s, they often came out with barely enough to raise the kids, and the exhusbands would revisit those settlements to make sure there wasn't a loophole somewhere in there where they could reduce their payments.  They often divorced the kids as well as their wives. 

 

[chocolatine]

For all of Dan's purported intelligence, he was remarkably stupid to continue pushing Betty's buttons after seeing her reactions escalate. At the very least after she drove her car into his house, he should have come to the conclusion that his own safety (not to mention that of his children) was worth more than the petty "fines" and the other crap he pulled to cheat her out of money. I think he was a narcissist and his ego got a huge kick from being able to drive a woman out of her mind, to the extent that all rational thought went out the window.

Edited June 24, 2020 by chocolatine

[mamadrama]

4 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Well, this was tough to watch.  Betty continued to cling to the idea that she had the moral high ground, because Dan had cheated on her, and that that should afford her some protection under the law and some sympathy.  But, much to her amazement, it does not.  With the no fault divorce, she had no power over Dan, and he could willfully move his girlfriend into the family home, defy her play of leaving the kids with him to show him that he needed her mothering abilities, and at every turn, he blocked her moves.  He had ULTIMATE power over her future, and, as she saw it, she had NONE. She was supposed to just shut up and take it.  Take what ever he chose to give her and go away like a good little girl.  

I wonder.  I wonder if she had accepted his terms, if Dan Broderick (the 3rd!)  would have allowed her to go away. Or if he would have found ways to continue to diminish the settlement and make it smaller and smaller. 

Of course, Betty is outraged at being replaced.  She's outraged at the settlement and having her role in society being diminished, and she is not realizing that she could lose everything, while Dan loses nothing.

I was somewhat appalled by all of the advice given her, which was to be meek and mild and a good girl, but then again, it was the 80s, and men still pretty much ruled. It seemed to work for awhile too, she was going to have the boys for Easter, until DAN CHANGED HIS MIND.  Again, no power.  

I loved that the judge told Dan to get the girlfriend off of the answering machine.  Ha!  He saw that as manipulation.  Also loved that he recognized that Dan was prolonging things by fining her and filing all of those little grievances. 

Now, I'm not saying that Betty couldn't have fought back a different way.  Her lawyer this round seemed pretty smart. If Betty had been willing to let her do the fighting, while leaving the phone alone, she might have won back a few things. But Betty had been through so many rounds of losing, I don't know if she could see it. 

And Dan was the ultimate manipulator. He always knew which buttons to push. I've often wondered why he never changed the locks on the house he had shared with her. (Not the house they are killed in.) Or why he just didn't change phone numbers. 

Ultimately, I feel very bad for the kids. I saw some tough divorces in the 90s and the kids suffered mightly because the parents were busying hating each other so much, they couldn't see what they were doing to the kids. That is what I can never forgive Dan or Betty for. 

IMO he didn't change his number or locks because he was secretly enjoying all of this. He liked watching her lose her shit, he enjoyed having power over her. No way was he going to close off all those channels and watch it stop.

He was as crazy as she was-he just showed it in different ways.

[SuzieQ]

2 hours ago, cardigirl said:

You all have lost your sympathy for Betty, I get that. But I do not, for one minute, think Dan Broderick was playing fairly.

Why do you think that?  I don't see anyone defending him.  All 3 of them were horrible people, although I cut Betty some slack because I really believe she was mentally ill.  Not sure if she always was, but none of the adults did right by those kids.  Linda is not responsible for Dan's cheating, but she sure didn't try to make him a better person either.  I've never seen 3 such selfish assholes in my life.

[MamaMax]

This whole shit show is a cautionary tale: When Narcissists  Marry. 
Neither one of them was willing to give in for the sake of the kids and that’s where the real evil lies, IMO.

Dan wanted nothing but to fuck Betty over. His neglect of the kids goes to show that they were just pawns for him.  If he truly wanted to be rid of Betty and move on w his life w Linda.... he could have just thrown money at the problem. Perhaps he would have had to give her more than he wanted to, but he had so much. It was pure spite that he wouldn’t give her up to 50% just to be rid of her.

the flip side: Betty was as bad as him. She obviously didn’t really care about her kids as real actual people. As a true narcissist, she doesn’t see anyone else’s needs as important as her own.  When she was raising her kids she was the “perfect” mom because that was what she wanted people to think of HER. In a way, the kids were only an extension of her ego.

No matter how mad you are, a loving parent could not take it that far and expose their kids to all that. That little boy was breaking MY heart! How could a mother listen to that and not try to soothe him? Promise him she will stop fighting? 
 

Question for book readers: was Betty crass and foul mouthed before the marriage went bad? 
 

[chocolatine]

25 minutes ago, SuzieQ said:

All 3 of them were horrible people, although I cut Betty some slack because I really believe she was mentally ill.  Not sure if she always was, but none of the adults did right by those kids.  Linda is not responsible for Dan's cheating, but she sure didn't try to make him a better person either.  I've never seen 3 such selfish assholes in my life.

I'm not very familiar with the real-life case, but just going by what I see on the show, I don't put Linda in the same category as Dan and Betty. She's just the garden-variety, pretty but not too bright young woman who thinks success is landing a wealthy, established man. There are millions like her in every generation. She was in her early 20s when she met Dan, and not mature enough to understand that how he treated Betty would be how he would eventually treat her had they both lived long enough. Dan and Betty were vengeful narcissists who used their children as pawns even though they were both knew better. Linda was just stupid.

Edited June 24, 2020 by chocolatine

[SuzieQ]

3 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I'm not very familiar with the real-life case, but just going by what I see on the show, I don't put Linda in the same category as Dan and Betty. She's just the garden-variety, pretty but not too bright young woman who thinks success is landing a wealthy, established man. There are millions like her in every generation. She was in her early 20s when she met Dan, and not mature enough to understand that how he treated Betty would be how he would eventually treat her had they both lived long enough. Dan and Betty were vengeful narcissists who used their children as pawns even though they were both knew better. Linda was just stupid.

Yes, that's what portrayed in this series so far, but in the original movies and articles I've read, Linda was just as awful.  Calling Betty old/fat and making fun of her in front of the kids.  Rubbing it in her face how often they had sex.  I agree that she was young and immature, but that's a special kind of mean when you're screwing someone's husband.

[lovesnark]

6 minutes ago, MamaMax said:

This whole shit show is a cautionary tale: When Narcissists  Marry. 
Neither one of them was willing to give in for the sake of the kids and that’s where the real evil lies, IMO.

Dan wanted nothing but to fuck Betty over. His neglect of the kids goes to show that they were just pawns for him.  If he truly wanted to be rid of Betty and move on w his life w Linda.... he could have just thrown money at the problem. Perhaps he would have had to give her more than he wanted to, but he had so much. It was pure spite that he wouldn’t give her up to 50% just to be rid of her.

the flip side: Betty was as bad as him. She obviously didn’t really care about her kids as real actual people. As a true narcissist, she doesn’t see anyone else’s needs as important as her own.  When she was raising her kids she was the “perfect” mom because that was what she wanted people to think of HER. In a way, the kids were only an extension of her ego.

No matter how mad you are, a loving parent could not take it that far and expose their kids to all that. That little boy was breaking MY heart! How could a mother listen to that and not try to soothe him? Promise him she will stop fighting? 
 

Question for book readers: was Betty crass and foul mouthed before the marriage went bad? 
 

Great post! Their narcissism knew no bounds. To answer your question, no. Betty was not foul mouthed and vulgar before the the divorce happened. People she'd known for years were flabbergasted at the garbage that came out of her mouth. The constant vulgar bitching about Dan and Linda is what drove most of her friends away.

[chlban]

19 hours ago, SuzieQ said:

Well Betty's CRAZY came out tonight!!  I get that she hates his guts, but it's like she's lost every maternal instinct she ever had!  After viewing tonight, I think she's just comfortable being angry!  She was probably angry for years and thinks it's normal.  Dan was probably plotting to get out for years and she took his silence as compliance.  What a bunch of messed up people!!   I bet Dan and Linda would have been divorced by now.  He's all about image.

I had followed this case since it happened, and I think the best book on it is "Until the Twelfth Of Never" by Bella Stumbo. She tries to present a really fair view of these people, but, honestly, it is very difficult, after a certain point, to be sympathetic to Betty. Dan was a controlling jerk, no doubt about it, but Betty not only gave him the kids, she only wanted custody If she got the financial settlement she wanted. She had a right, of course, to be angry about the affair and many other things, but people move on. Obviously, not only could she not do so in the 80's, she clearly still hasn't. If she had, she would almost certainly be free today. It really was all about Betty. Not the children, they were pawns.

[SuzieQ]

8 minutes ago, chlban said:

I had followed this case since it happened, and I think the best book on it is "Until the Twelfth Of Never" by Bella Stumbo. She tries to present a really fair view of these people, but, honestly, it is very difficult, after a certain point, to be sympathetic to Betty. Dan was a controlling jerk, no doubt about it, but Betty not only gave him the kids, she only wanted custody If she got the financial settlement she wanted. She had a right, of course, to be angry about the affair and many other things, but people move on. Obviously, not only could she not do so in the 80's, she clearly still hasn't. If she had, she would almost certainly be free today. It really was all about Betty. Not the children, they were pawns.

Have not read the book yet, but agree with most of the rest of your post.  I said something really similar in another post as well.  No one was looking out for these poor kids!

[chlban]

49 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

Great post! Their narcissism knew no bounds. To answer your question, no. Betty was not foul mouthed and vulgar before the the divorce happened. People she'd known for years were flabbergasted at the garbage that came out of her mouth. The constant vulgar bitching about Dan and Linda is what drove most of her friends away.

But, the book makes it clear the marriage was troubled. During divorce proceedings Dan brought up that they had discussed divorce almost from the day of the marriage and Betty agreed. It was likely only a threat on her part, but throwing the D word can be very damaging. In the book, it also covers that there was a period where Dan and Linda did break up and Linda was actually in a relationship with another man, although she never stopped working for him. The book also talks about how Betty threw a fit that Christmas because a ring he bought for her was not up to what she thought she deserved, and she ruined everyone's Christmas over it. In the Stumbo book, she refers to it as "the best gift Betty could have given Linda"  Dan moved out two months later.

Edited June 24, 2020 by chlban

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Of course, Betty is outraged at being replaced.  She's outraged at the settlement and having her role in society being diminished, and she is not realizing that she could lose everything, while Dan loses nothing.

It was very telling how it took forever for Betty to even say Linda's name. Obviously Linda was a target of Betty's rage because she was with Dan, but I feel like it wouldn't have mattered what woman Dan wound up with. She would've hated her no matter what. Even if he had waited until after they divorced to start seeing someone else, I still don't think Betty would've accepted it. 

Quote

I was somewhat appalled by all of the advice given her, which was to be meek and mild and a good girl, but then again, it was the 80s, and men still pretty much ruled. It seemed to work for awhile too, she was going to have the boys for Easter, until DAN CHANGED HIS MIND.  Again, no power.  

Agreed on this. She'd already done that for years and we saw where that got her. Unfortunately, she went in the whole opposite direction with how to respond going forward, forgetting there's a whole lotta middle ground between "be meek and polite" and "harass and threaten your ex-husband and his new girlfriend". 

2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

For all of Dan's purported intelligence, he was remarkably stupid to continue pushing Betty's buttons after seeing her reactions escalate. At the very least after she drove her car into his house, he should have come to the conclusion that his own safety (not to mention that of his children) was worth more than the petty "fines" and the other crap he pulled to cheat her out of money. I think he was a narcissist and his ego got a huge kick from being able to drive a woman out of her mind, to the extent that all rational thought went out the window.

This! Okay, maybe he didn't care about his own safety, but he wasn't the only one having to deal with Betty's madness. He absolutely should've been thinking about keeping his children and Linda safe once he started seeing what Betty was capable of. I was genuinely worried that Betty would try to ram Dan's car when she was chasing him down to confront him over having the kids at Easter. 

Somebody should've sat Linda down and told her, "Look at this craziness. Is it really worth being with him to put up with this insanity?" No way could I stand being with a guy who's got this much drama and danger in his life. 

1 hour ago, MamaMax said:

No matter how mad you are, a loving parent could not take it that far and expose their kids to all that. That little boy was breaking MY heart! How could a mother listen to that and not try to soothe him? Promise him she will stop fighting? 

I have no children and I wanted to jump through the screen and hug that poor kid when he started crying. Good little actor, that kid, he really brought the heartbreak and horror of the situation. 

8 hours ago, SuzieQ said:

Agree-Linda and Dan would not have lasted.  Linda and Betty would have probably ended up co-dependant alcoholic friends 5 years later commiserating about what a shit Dan is.

Honestly, that would've been a great ending to this story (potential alcoholism aside, of course). More women should do that when they both wind up dating a guy who turns out to be a piece of shit. 

[divsc]

20 hours ago, Marmiarmo said:

The Broderick case has always stuck with me, and I’m old enough to remember when it all went down.  Not one of these adults behaved appropriately.  
Dan was an arrogant, self-important jerk.  And while he didn’t deserve to die the way he did, I seriously don’t understand why...after seeing your ex-wife repeatedly break into your home and destroy things, after being warned that she had seriously threatened to kill you, after watching her come unglued...why you wouldn’t have a burglar alarm, an attack dog, a gun, and a panic room!  You’d be alive today, Dan Broderick, if you had.  

I remember in one of the podcasts I had listened to on the case, it came out that Dan did have an alarm system, but that when Betty drove her car into his front door, it damaged the security system and Dan never got around to replacing it! Talk about irony.

You'd have to think in this day and age with all the high tech alarm systems and cameras, things you can control from a smart phone, Dan would have had a state of the art security system and this probably would not have happened. Then again, Betty was so enraged and  off the charts, and not exactly deterred by much - she probably would have found some way.

[Annber03]

If I had his money and means, I would've just taken the kids and moved...but even thinking about that option, no way Betty would've responded well to him moving the kids even farther away from her. 

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, chlban said:

The book also talks about how Betty threw a fit that Christmas because a ring he bought for her was not up to what she thought she deserved, and she ruined everyone's Christmas over it.

That moment made it into the first movie.  They showed a few different scenes where Betty would get furious if things weren't going exactly the way she wanted them, and she would ruin everyone's day. 

I was a little confused over the Easter situation.  I was under the impression that Betty got some kind of court order to get the visitation, and Dan couldn't take that away.  He also told Betty he informed her lawyer, but we never saw that brought up between Betty and her lawyer. 

[chocolatine]

13 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I was a little confused over the Easter situation.  I was under the impression that Betty got some kind of court order to get the visitation, and Dan couldn't take that away.  He also told Betty he informed her lawyer, but we never saw that brought up between Betty and her lawyer. 

Based on what the judge said, it sounded like Dan had custody and could grant Betty visitation at his discretion. So apparently he agreed to let her have the boys for Easter then reneged at the last minute, one of the many cruel ways he messed with her. Betty's phone rang just as she was leaving the house to pick up the boys, but she didn't pick up. That must have been her lawyer calling to let her know Dan changed the plan.

[Armchair Critic]

3 hours ago, MamaMax said:

Question for book readers: was Betty crass and foul mouthed before the marriage went bad?

She used to have a swear jar for the kids so no her swearing wasn't that bad before. From accounts of her children's teachers and other parents she used to be a great mom. She just lost her head when Dan started fooling around and then left her. I am not saying Betty is innocent but Dan and Linda kept poking the bear and it backfired on them.