S04.E10: Lowkey Lost

[RealReality]

1 minute ago, ElsbethTascioni said:

This. All day long. I was worried they'd go that route when she was calling him trying to talk, but then I convinced myself that they wouldn't go with such a tired story line. 

But, what's confusing to me is this.  

Condola was blowing up Lawrence's phone when he got back when he and issa were out on their date.  This is why everyone assumed that condola was pregnant because she needed to talk to him so badly.  

But then after the date, Lawrence said he talked to condola and told her it was over. 

So, did that "break up" conversation just never happen?  Wouldn't condola have known she was pregnant when she and Lawrence had this alleged "break up" conversation?  If so, why didn't she tell him then?  Unless, of course Lawrence lied and hadn't had the conversation with condola. 

2 minutes ago, tomsmom said:

Breakup. Baby. Postpartum. Meh.

WHAT HAPPENED TO LATOYA??!!

 

......and the Toyota!

[ElsbethTascioni]

4 minutes ago, RealReality said:

But, what's confusing to me is this.  

Condola was blowing up Lawrence's phone when he got back when he and issa were out on their date.  This is why everyone assumed that condola was pregnant because she needed to talk to him so badly.  

But then after the date, Lawrence said he talked to condola and told her it was over. 

So, did that "break up" conversation just never happen?  Wouldn't condola have known she was pregnant when she and Lawrence had this alleged "break up" conversation?  If so, why didn't she tell him then?  Unless, of course Lawrence lied and hadn't had the conversation with condola. 

......and the Toyota!

That's a good point. If it's not a continuity mistake, I say he just lied about the conversation, because he felt like whenever he would get around to it, that's how it would go.

[Empress1]

10 minutes ago, RealReality said:

So, did that "break up" conversation just never happen?  Wouldn't condola have known she was pregnant when she and Lawrence had this alleged "break up" conversation?  If so, why didn't she tell him then?  Unless, of course Lawrence lied and hadn't had the conversation with condola. 

Do we know how long it was between Issa & Lawrence’s date & where they are now? I was assuming weeks or a couple of months, given the montage. If so, it’s possible that she found out she was pregnant after she & Lawrence had what was supposed to be their final breakup talk.

[Irlandesa]

17 minutes ago, RealReality said:

So, did that "break up" conversation just never happen?  Wouldn't condola have known she was pregnant when she and Lawrence had this alleged "break up" conversation?  If so, why didn't she tell him then?  Unless, of course Lawrence lied and hadn't had the conversation with condola. 

Since time doesn't go by fast on this show, I think it's possible that she either didn't know she was pregnant yet or just found out and was still deciding what she was going to do before telling Lawrence.

And it sounds like they were broken up when he got together with Issa.  The fact that they were both talking to one another did leave open the possibility of them getting back together but that wasn't a foregone conclusion.  For all we know, once he decided being with Issa was what he wanted, he might have told Condola that he wasn't interested in continuing to talk it out.

[Amethyst]

1 hour ago, mrsbagnet said:

I can see this. Andrew could/should have been more direct with Molly from the jump. Letting things fester is not good, and they would have recognized their incompatibility earlier. 

And interesting enough, after the argument between Molly and Victor in Mexico, Andrew told Molly that he wouldn’t let things fester between him and his brother.  

Everyone’s said it already, Andrew was just over it with Molly.  Between walking on eggshells, the fight with Issa, now the stuff with his brother, he was right.  Relationships shouldn’t be that hard.  And Andrew hit the nail on the head when he asked Molly why she was doing what she was doing.  They both knew this was really about Issa, but Molly didn’t want to admit it.  Her screaming that she let shit go wasn’t about Andrew at all.

The more I think about the finale, the more annoyed I get.  Even if Condola wasn’t pregnant, Issa going to SF for Lawrence would have been a truly stupid  move.  A few hookups and an artwalk doesn’t put everything back together again.  Issa let herself get so bothered over Molly, she didn’t even consider a LD relationship with Lawrence, she just jumped to moving across the state for him. 

I had a feeling that Issa was letting herself get too deeply invested again, which was why the pregnancy news was so devastating to her.

 

[RealReality]

14 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

 

I had a feeling that Issa was letting herself get too deeply invested again, which was why the pregnancy news was so devastating to her.

 

This. 

It's why, to me, issa would have been so much better off just ending that date.  It seemed clear that Lawrence wanted to explore whether they could be a couple again, so it wasn't like he was never going to talk to her again if she had just gone home that night.  

But, as I've said before, for me, if I like someone, sex just deepens the emotional involvement.  

When I'm emotionally involved, I'm not entirely objective and I think this happened with issa.  Objectively, had she been presented this set of circumstances, she would see how easily it could all go sideways....but when you're emotionally involved.....it's harder to see. 

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

Do we know how long it was between Issa & Lawrence’s date & where they are now? I was assuming weeks or a couple of months, given the montage. If so, it’s possible that she found out she was pregnant after she & Lawrence had what was supposed to be their final breakup talk.

I can't know, but it seems to me like when she was texting him she seemed kinda desperate.  Now maybe she was just desperate to see him, but it seemed to be more than that.  I think it's part of the reason people assumed she was pregnant.  

Condola and Lawrence broke up before the block party.  How long does it take to have positive signs of a pregnancy?  

Because they would have broken up around the block party and enough time would have had to pass for Lawrence to go on his interview, Molly to go on her vacation and for all that montage sex to happen in issas apartment.  

Lawrence said he had the "break up conversation" with condola after all that (IIRC, he said he had the conversation as he and issa were sitting on the couch after the sex montage).  

To me, it makes more sense that condola knew, and that's why she was desperate to see him and Lawrence kept blowing her off or stringing her along and never actually had a real conversation with condola until she showed up at his place.  

If they are going along the well beaten path, condola is going to miscarry.  

[Stella]

1 hour ago, Amethyst said:

Issa going to SF for Lawrence would have been a truly stupid  move.  A few hookups and an artwalk doesn’t put everything back together again.  Issa let herself get so bothered over Molly, she didn’t even consider a LD relationship with Lawrence, she just jumped to moving across the state for him. 

Really? I missed that apparently because I thought they were talking about 45 minute flights, etc. I guess I need to watch it again!

I've read in a few places Issa Rae talking about the Issa/Molly friendship being the main relationship in the series and I see why she would say that. But this season really solidified thoughts I've had about Molly all along. Molly's very self-centered to the point of myopia. I feel done with her.

And for me Issa and only Issa is the big draw of this show. I love how she's been getting her life together and while sure, Issa and Molly having a rapprochement is good, I definitely think Issa would benefit from some new friends. I will be disappointed if they go back to Issa & Molly being total BFFs after this season.

 

[Irlandesa]

10 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

A few hookups and an artwalk doesn’t put everything back together again.  Issa let herself get so bothered over Molly, she didn’t even consider a LD relationship with Lawrence, she just jumped to moving across the state for him. 

She wasn't about to pack up and move.  They were absolutely going to do long distance.  She only said she'd consider moving if things stayed good with them.

55 minutes ago, RealReality said:

IIRC, he said he had the conversation as he and issa were sitting on the couch after the sex montage

Yeah she asked Lawrence if there were any loose ends and that's when he told her that he and Condola talked and it was done.  I don't think she was trying to tell him about her pregnancy.  Even if he didn't want to meet in person, that's something she could have texted him.  Or left in a voice mail.  Heck, it might have been even better because it would have given him some time to process the news before they talked.

[Empress1]

38 minutes ago, Stella said:

Really? I missed that apparently because I thought they were talking about 45 minute flights, etc. I guess I need to watch it again!

No, they were going to be long-distance at first. She did say SF is only a 45-minute flight from LA, which is a pretty easy weekend trip. She also intimated that she would move if things progressed with them, like @Irlandesa said. She didn't jump right to moving.

The more I think about it, the more I hate this pregnancy. Issa Rae has said that the show is a love letter to LA as much as anything else, so obviously Show Issa isn't going anywhere. The SF job is enough of a foil. If they want Lawrence off the show, he takes the job and Issa decides not to move. If they want Lawrence and Issa to break up, he takes the job and she decides not to move. If they want Issa and Lawrence to break up and Lawrence to stay on the show, they could just break up - "we tried, we realized we were better as friends." They don't need this deus ex machina pregnancy. The show hasn't gone full soap opera before, and I don't like it here.

I hope they keep ol' Nanceford as Issa's friend because I think it would be tacky of her to jump back to him because she doesn't want Lawrence and the child that's coming (not that I blame her, I'd make the same choice in her shoes). It's the same question Condola asked - if there hadn't been This One Big Thing That Happened, would you still be with me?

I bet Yvonne Orji is glad for the actress who plays Condola, because people will probably shift their ire from Molly to Condola. 

[RealReality]

40 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

She wasn't about to pack up and move.  They were absolutely going to do long distance.  She only said she'd consider moving if things stayed good with them.

Yeah she asked Lawrence if there were any loose ends and that's when he told her that he and Condola talked and it was done.  I don't think she was trying to tell him about her pregnancy.  Even if he didn't want to meet in person, that's something she could have texted him.  Or left in a voice mail.  Heck, it might have been even better because it would have given him some time to process the news before they talked.

I feel like I'd want to have that conversation in person... especially if I wanted to gauge the other person's reaction and see if there was a chance of being a couple.  But I haven't been in that situation.

I just can't see why else condola would be so desperate to see Lawrence.  The D can't be that amazing and you two are broken up.  

[Hera]

3 hours ago, RealReality said:

So, did that "break up" conversation just never happen?  Wouldn't condola have known she was pregnant when she and Lawrence had this alleged "break up" conversation?  If so, why didn't she tell him then?  Unless, of course Lawrence lied and hadn't had the conversation with condola. 

I wondered if she met up with him to test the waters for getting back together and he shut it down, so she took another few days to decide what she wanted to do about the pregnancy. She may have thought that if he was open to getting back together, they could decide what to do about the pregnancy together. But since that wasn't going to be an option, she took a few more days to decide on her own what she wanted to do and then told him.

But I like Lawrence, so I'm reluctant to believe in an explanation where he's lying.

[RealReality]

1 minute ago, Hera said:

I wondered if she met up with him to test the waters for getting back together and he shut it down, so she took another few days to decide what she wanted to do about the pregnancy. She may have thought that if he was open to getting back together, they could decide what to do about the pregnancy together. But since that wasn't going to be an option, she took a few more days to decide on her own what she wanted to do and then told him.

But I like Lawrence, so I'm reluctant to believe in an explanation where he's lying.

I don't think I dislike Lawrence, but I think there are a lot of good people who go out of their way to avoid confrontation and uncomfortable conversations. 

I have been one such person!

[luckyroll3]

15 hours ago, Hera said:

I thought it was really revealing during Molly's break-up fight with Andrew that she couldn't come up with any reason for them to stay together other than, "We've both put so much time into this and neither of us has ever gotten this far with someone before." She had nothing to say about love or their connection—all she could offer was a sunk cost fallacy.

Exactly.  Molly was much more interested in being "successful" in a relationship and no longer having the broken pussy.  Nothing about the relationship had to do with Andrew.  Her boyfriend could've have been anyone, and even with the same circumstances, she still would have fought for it because she was no longer the perpetually single one.  

15 hours ago, Hera said:

but there's something I find really unpleasant about her calling Issa once she no longer has Andrew. It's hard for me to read it as anything other than, "Now that my boyfriend has gotten tired of my toxicity and ended things, I'm going to stop being such a bitch to you so that I am not completely alone."

I definitely saw it this way.  Now that she no longer has this relationship to fall back on, now she has time for Issa.  It didn't sit well with me.  Small points to Molly for being the one to reach out to Issa, but she should have reached out long before now.  Also, more power to Issa causeI wouldn't have returned her text/call, much less agree to meet up with her after what she said the last episode.  

[Irlandesa]

9 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I feel like I'd want to have that conversation in person... especially if I wanted to gauge the other person's reaction and see if there was a chance of being a couple.  But I haven't been in that situation.

 

4 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I don't think I dislike Lawrence, but I think there are a lot of good people who go out of their way to avoid confrontation and uncomfortable conversations. 

I do get wanting to tell the person in person if possible.  But since they were already broken up, I don't think Lawrence knew whether or not he was trying to dodge an uncomfortable conversation. 

10 minutes ago, Hera said:

But I like Lawrence, so I'm reluctant to believe in an explanation where he's lying.

I don't think lying makes sense for the character in this situation. Lawrence has his faults but he doesn't have ALL the faults.  I think if they were going to imply that he was hiding something about his relationship with Condola, they would have showed that in this season.  The answers he gave Issa in episode 8 seemed to align with things we saw that Issa didn't.  Therefore, I don't really have any reason to suspect that the answers he gave Issa in this episode would be any different.

[TVbitch]

During the Wine Down, they had the actress who plays Tiffany as the guest, and they talked about how important the PPD story line was, and how powerfully it was presented (and I was like, huh?) and the actress went on and on about what an amazing acting job she did in this episode (and I was like, wuh?). She opened a door and said a couple lines, and I was not blown away, and they focused mostly on Molly & Issa during that whole plotline. I was fully expecting the Molly actress to be the guest at the Wine Down! They touched on Issa & Lawrence but did not even mention Molly & Andrew or Molly & Issa! WTF?! 

Anyway, I feel so cheated we didn't get to see Andrew and Molly finish that conversation!! 

[PsychoDrone]

Condola being pregnant is so contrived and tired.  So, why do it?  Also, love that men are vilified for not having the proper reaction when they find out the woman is pregnant.  What is her reaction when she finds out?  Unless it's planned, I doubt she is happy about it either.  Last thing, I wonder is could Condola have planned this?  She did say she wasn't ready with her ex-husband, and she wanted to have kids.  Clock is ticking, good brother comes along, not that far-fetched to believe since she said she is not really concerned about Lawrence being involved.

Run away Andrew, as fast as you can!!!  Molly really needs to put in the work with her therapist to figure out why she is so controlling.  He's right, it shouldn't be this hard.  And, the relationship has barely started.

Post-partum seemed tacked on.  I thought there was going to be a bigger payoff on that.  That could have been left out, or shortened, to tell us about LATOYA!!!  You can't tease a whole season of "Looking for Latoya", mention a reunion show, and leave the audience without closure.

[RealReality]

10 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

 

I do get wanting to tell the person in person if possible.  But since they were already broken up, I don't think Lawrence knew whether or not he was trying to dodge an uncomfortable conversation. 

I don't think lying makes sense for the character in this situation. Lawrence has his faults but he doesn't have ALL the faults.  I think if they were going to imply that he was hiding something about his relationship with Condola, they would have showed that in this season.  The answers he gave Issa in episode 8 seemed to align with things we saw that Issa didn't.  Therefore, I don't really have any reason to suspect that the answers he gave Issa in this episode would be any different.

I think there may have been a part of Lawrence that wanted to avoid the confrontation of an official hard-line parting of ways and wanted to mitigate risk by keeping an iron in the condola fire, so he didn't want to fully tell her to pound sand, but he knew he was interested in issa and he resorted to ghosting condola and blowing her off with excuses and one word responses, etc, etc.  

Not realizing that the reason she was desperate to get in touch with him and see him was to talk about her pregnancy and see how he'd respond.  

I felt like the "loose ends" conversation was kinda spontaneous and issa had turned a question back on him.  So while it may have not been right, I could understand why someone might instinctively lie. 

Much respect to issa for how she made a clear line in the sand with Nathan.  He is so cute, I wouldn't kick him out of bed for eating those disgusting grapenuts.  

Edited June 16, 2020 by RealReality

[retired watcher]

On 6/15/2020 at 1:13 AM, mrsbagnet said:

Everyone wondering about Latoya, check out the podcast. The first episode is up.

They crammed several special issues in this season: Tiffany's poor birthing care in the hospital, PPD, missing black girls, mental illness. I can't decide if they were handled well or not.

I was surprised he asked her what she was fighting for. I never thought he saw their relationship an unmeaningful to her. Her using the sink cost fallacy as a rationale was sad. She's basically saying she doesn't want to go thru the effort of starting over and finding someone, as if they should stay together bc it's the easier thing to do.

I'm also not sure that they all the way broke up. They cut the scene before she could answer the question.

What is the name of the podcast?

[mrsbagnet]

4 hours ago, retired watcher said:

What is the name of the podcast?

Looking for Latoya.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

5 hours ago, retired watcher said:

What is the name of the podcast?

 

1 hour ago, mrsbagnet said:

Looking for Latoya.

The link is posted in the media thread.

[DearEvette]

On 6/15/2020 at 11:48 AM, Irlandesa said:

And I don't think he pretended like everything is okay. He has brought up issues in the past, only to have Molly dismiss them because his issues don't conform to her perspective. She doesn't apologize; she usually doubles down about why she's "right." I don't think he's a gaslighter if the reason she's not realizing there are issues is because of her self-centeredness.

I agree.  I don't think anything Andrew did was deliberate or calculated.  I think early on he saw some things that probably gave him some pause... Molly working through their date.  But then that was a one time thing, and it was work.  He understood.  Molly not wanting to go to the concert -- ok, sure, she wanted to spend time with him to make up for the missed work.  He brought it up then, but she explained it, he didn't really like it but growing pains.. small blip in the relationship.

Molly's handling of her blow up with Issa.  He disagrees with how she is handling it, tries to gently nudge her to thinking about it differently.  But then this is her long time relationship with her friend.  He can't get in the middle of that really.

And here is where I want to pause and give Alexander Hodge mad props.  Throughout the season he worked his emotions through his face.  Andrew was saying all the right things but you could see on his face the doubt, worry, frustration..  Just little things.  You always got the sense he wanted to say more but was just restraining himself.  And AH did such a good job conveying all that without words.

I think in the end it was a case of him  noticing a pattern.  Having seen all the things accrete, he simply couldn't ignore it anymore.   And what we got in the finale is that it took that one last thing for him to stop trying to speak gently and nudge her, but to speak frankly and finally get her to see it herself.   

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

....and the Toyota!

That's a car. 😉

[ElectricBoogaloo]

10 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

You always got the sense he wanted to say more but was just restraining himself. 

That was one of the things I really liked about him. He was gently prodding her and asking her questions but he wasn't flat out telling her that she was being a selfish immature pain in the ass about Issa. I have a similar M.O. because whether it's your partner or your friends, we're all adults so it's your responsibility to learn and grow. It's not my job to parent you. You need to figure it out and make your own decisions. If you ask for my advice or my opinion, I will be honest but I'm not going to tell you what to do. He gave her the opportunity to vent about Issa but he didn't offer unsolicited advice, which I liked. Too many people want to jump in and say you should do XYZ but unless the other person comes that conclusion on their own, if they just do what you say then they're making your mistake instead of making their own mistake.

[RealReality]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

That was one of the things I really liked about him. He was gently prodding her and asking her questions but he wasn't flat out telling her that she was being a selfish immature pain in the ass about Issa. I have a similar M.O. because whether it's your partner or your friends, we're all adults so it's your responsibility to learn and grow. It's not my job to parent you. You need to figure it out and make your own decisions. If you ask for my advice or my opinion, I will be honest but I'm not going to tell you what to do. He gave her the opportunity to vent about Issa but he didn't offer unsolicited advice, which I liked. Too many people want to jump in and say you should do XYZ but unless the other person comes that conclusion on their own, if they just do what you say then they're making your mistake instead of making their own mistake.

My sister does this too and I love her for it.  I know if someone comes at me hard, I'll dig my heels in and look for reasons I'm "right" 

But, she will just let me know that she understands my point of view and isn't mad, but......

[RealReality]

10 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

That's a car. 😉

This press conference is done. 

[Belle0712]

unpopular opinion, but it felt good seeing issa and lawrence back in a good place. i always seem to want it to work out with them. i never expect it to. 

 

condola’s pregnancy was expected and disappointing. i wish we were done with her character. i don’t know how a lawrence + issa relationship can work now. not because the situation itself is too difficult to navigate; but moreso because of who lawrence is. a man-child with an amazing ass. he can’t possibly successfully juggle two women, a baby and a burgeoning career. something has got to give. 

i predict lawrence + condola reuniting and having an unhappy marriage, with lawrence as house-husband, because that’s easier and he likes easy.

i don’t like the nathan character at all. his accent seems so contrived. rooting for his mental health, tho.

molly and andrew- he’s got way more patience than i do with her. and did her voice get progressively more hoarse as the season went on? i’m VERY over molly and wish we were done with her as well. that “see, im trying with her” cut deep. no gold stars for u, mol.

now issa’s brother, i’ll have more of him, please. i love their sibling dynamic.

the tiffany being missing storyline... watching i just kept wishing it would end sooner. i don’t care about her or her family at all. and i hold her acting + the writing at equal parts to blame. at the after show “wine down” amanda seales went ON and ON about how she stopped doing her nails thru the season so we could see her gradual undoing. GIRL. we were not paying attention to your nails at all. 

this episode was so full of so much yet it felt so... empty. 

here’s hoping for more... better, next season. 

 

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, Belle0712 said:

unpopular opinion, but it felt good seeing issa and lawrence back in a good place. i always seem to want it to work out with them. i never expect it to. 

 

condola’s pregnancy was expected and disappointing. i wish we were done with her character. i don’t know how a lawrence + issa relationship can work now. not because the situation itself is too difficult to navigate; but moreso because of who lawrence is. a man-child with an amazing ass. he can’t possibly successfully juggle two women, a baby and a burgeoning career. something has got to give. 

i predict lawrence + condola reuniting and having an unhappy marriage, with lawrence as house-husband, because that’s easier and he likes easy.

i don’t like the nathan character at all. his accent seems so contrived. rooting for his mental health, tho.

molly and andrew- he’s got way more patience than i do with her. and did her voice get progressively more hoarse as the season went on? i’m VERY over molly and wish we were done with her as well. that “see, im trying with her” cut deep. no gold stars for u, mol.

now issa’s brother, i’ll have more of him, please. i love their sibling dynamic.

the tiffany being missing storyline... watching i just kept wishing it would end sooner. i don’t care about her or her family at all. and i hold her acting + the writing at equal parts to blame. at the after show “wine down” amanda seales went ON and ON about how she stopped doing her nails thru the season so we could see her gradual undoing. GIRL. we were not paying attention to your nails at all. 

this episode was so full of so much yet it felt so... empty. 

here’s hoping for more... better, next season. 

 

I predict condola will have a miscarriage or end up dead.  

I think the writers will let the condola/Lawrence/issa (?) thing play out for a while, but I think condola will lose the baby....Lawrence will be torn to bits.....issa will be there.

I could be wrong, but I don't see how Lawrence stays on the show otherwise.  They clearly want to keep him on or else they would have shipped him off to SF.  I don't think this show lends itself to an actual child or family as a major storyline. 

[SFoster21]

4 hours ago, Belle0712 said:

unpopular opinion, but it felt good seeing issa and lawrence back in a good place. i always seem to want it to work out with them. i never expect it to. 

 

condola’s pregnancy was expected and disappointing. i wish we were done with her character. i don’t know how a lawrence + issa relationship can work now. not because the situation itself is too difficult to navigate; but moreso because of who lawrence is. a man-child with an amazing ass. he can’t possibly successfully juggle two women, a baby and a burgeoning career. something has got to give. 

i predict lawrence + condola reuniting and having an unhappy marriage, with lawrence as house-husband, because that’s easier and he likes easy.

i don’t like the nathan character at all. his accent seems so contrived. rooting for his mental health, tho.

molly and andrew- he’s got way more patience than i do with her. and did her voice get progressively more hoarse as the season went on? i’m VERY over molly and wish we were done with her as well. that “see, im trying with her” cut deep. no gold stars for u, mol.

now issa’s brother, i’ll have more of him, please. i love their sibling dynamic.

the tiffany being missing storyline... watching i just kept wishing it would end sooner. i don’t care about her or her family at all. and i hold her acting + the writing at equal parts to blame. at the after show “wine down” amanda seales went ON and ON about how she stopped doing her nails thru the season so we could see her gradual undoing. GIRL. we were not paying attention to your nails at all. 

this episode was so full of so much yet it felt so... empty. 

here’s hoping for more... better, next season. 

 

Odd remarks AFAIC, because the actress who plays Tiffany never looked prettier in that scene, without the blonde braids and attitude.

[link417]

I’m disappointed that Corolla (™️ @rozen) is pregnant, but I’m glad it means Issa and Lawrence are not together anymore. Good for her for being straight-up with Lawrence about her not being able to deal with that. Lawrence needs to just go on to SF already.

I would like to see Issa alone again for a good part of next season, but I do want her to eventually be with Nathan.

Ugh, I can’t stand Tiffany OR Amanda Seales. I lost it when Amanda was going on about her acting in the Wine Down; when I was watching her scene at the hotel door, I was aghast at how awkward her “acting” was, it was just so bad.

Umm, did Prentice attend the Tyler Perry actor’s studio or something? He was doing way too much, like “filmed in front of a live studio audience” too much.

Sad the show is over, but excited for the next season. I love that “Looking for Latoya” has its own website and podcast, though. 😆

[ElectricBoogaloo]

7 hours ago, Belle0712 said:

at the after show “wine down” amanda seales went ON and ON about how she stopped doing her nails thru the season so we could see her gradual undoing. GIRL. we were not paying attention to your nails at all. 

I had a similar reaction. I know that actors have different processes so if that helped her get into the mindset of her character, then great, whatever works for you. But as an audience member, I would never notice something like that unless it was someone who was constantly shown texting in close up shots and I could see her nails in every episode. Honestly, we didn't see her much this season and when we did, how visible were her hands? They definitely weren't noticeable and honestly, that's the kind of detail that I think would be normal for most new moms. When you have a newborn, you spend most of your time feeding the baby and sleeping for the first few months so it's not unusual for new moms not to prioritize getting their nails done.

[Enigma X]

Just because I am mad at what I knew was going to happen, me not getting nice things with Issa and Lawrence, I have refrained from commenting in the thread. For what it is worth, I have no reason to believe that Lawrence was lying when he said he and Condola spoke and things were cool. At this point, I can believe that he and Condola did not know about the baby at that time. I can also believe that Condola knew and did not tell Lawrence because she was processing and that still would not make her a bad person. There does not need to be a bad guy in this situation even if they all decide to go their separate ways because of it.

Now for more unpopular opinions from me:

1. As much as I hated how they handled the PPD stuff (crammed really in one episode), I did not hate it.

2. I don't mind Tiffany. She has shown many times that she is vapid but a good friend. Well, many compared to as much air time that she gets.

3. As pretty as Nathan is, I am not seeing this amazing chemistry that he is having with Issa that some of you are seeing. I hope they continue to explore mental health issues within the black community but I have no need to see him and Issa as more than friends.

3. Over Molly. I know this relationship will bounce back as if this fallout never happened. I think that will bother me more than them becoming friends again.

[Belle0712]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I had a similar reaction. I know that actors have different processes so if that helped her get into the mindset of her character, then great, whatever works for you. But as an audience member, I would never notice something like that unless it was someone who was constantly shown texting in close up shots and I could see her nails in every episode. Honestly, we didn't see her much this season and when we did, how visible were her hands? They definitely weren't noticeable and honestly, that's the kind of detail that I think would be normal for most new moms. When you have a newborn, you spend most of your time feeding the baby and sleeping for the first few months so it's not unusual for new moms not to prioritize getting their nails done.

 

totally agree with u. i feel like she believes she (tiffany/amanda) gave us SO much more than what was actually received. 

that scene with her could have been much more powerful in the right hands. based on the little we know about the supposed personal tension between her and the cast.... i can’t help but wonder if she was allowed to implode so it could be used as an excuse to not bring her back and blame it on poor fan reception. 

[Belle0712]

14 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

Just because I am mad at what I knew was going to happen, me not getting nice things with Issa and Lawrence, I have refrained from commenting in the thread. For what it is worth, I have no reason to believe that Lawrence was lying when he said he and Condola spoke and things were cool. At this point, I can believe that he and Condola did not know about the baby at that time. I can also believe that Condola knew and did not tell Lawrence because she was processing and that still would not make her a bad person. There does not need to be a bad guy in this situation even if they all decide to go their separate ways because of it.

Now for more unpopular opinions from me:

1. As much as I hated how they handled the PPD stuff (crammed really in one episode), I did not hate it.

2. I don't mind Tiffany. She has shown many times that she is vapid but a good friend. Well, many compared to as much air time that she gets.

3. As pretty as Nathan is, I am not seeing this amazing chemistry that he is having with Issa that some of you are seeing. I hope they continue to explore mental health issues within the black community but I have no need to see him and Issa as more than friends.

3. Over Molly. I know this relationship will bounce back as if this fallout never happened. I think that will bother me more than them becoming friends again.

tiff definitely has been a solid friend. i agree w/u and can give her that. i also love her exchanges w/issa’s brother. especially when kelli is around. 

i also agree w-u that i think the molly/issa friendship will be repaired although i a tired, with a capital t, of molly. 

same as u, i don’t necessarily believe lawrence knew about the baby prior to when he shared it w/issa. i really wish they could make it work but, knowing these characters as i believe i do, don’t see an immediate or clear path forward.

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, link417 said:

I’m disappointed that Corolla (™️ @rozen) is pregnant, but I’m glad it means Issa and Lawrence are not together anymore. Good for her for being straight-up with Lawrence about her not being able to deal with that. Lawrence needs to just go on to SF already.

I would like to see Issa alone again for a good part of next season, but I do want her to eventually be with Nathan.

Ugh, I can’t stand Tiffany OR Amanda Seales. I lost it when Amanda was going on about her acting in the Wine Down; when I was watching her scene at the hotel door, I was aghast at how awkward her “acting” was, it was just so bad.

Umm, did Prentice attend the Tyler Perry actor’s studio or something? He was doing way too much, like “filmed in front of a live studio audience” too much.

Sad the show is over, but excited for the next season. I love that “Looking for Latoya” has its own website and podcast, though. 😆

 

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I had a similar reaction. I know that actors have different processes so if that helped her get into the mindset of her character, then great, whatever works for you. But as an audience member, I would never notice something like that unless it was someone who was constantly shown texting in close up shots and I could see her nails in every episode. Honestly, we didn't see her much this season and when we did, how visible were her hands? They definitely weren't noticeable and honestly, that's the kind of detail that I think would be normal for most new moms. When you have a newborn, you spend most of your time feeding the baby and sleeping for the first few months so it's not unusual for new moms not to prioritize getting their nails done.

Amanda Seales is acting like she is ready to go pick up her Emmy. I am beginning to think Tiffany is just a toned down version of the actress.

15 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

Just because I am mad at what I knew was going to happen, me not getting nice things with Issa and Lawrence, I have refrained from commenting in the thread. For what it is worth, I have no reason to believe that Lawrence was lying when he said he and Condola spoke and things were cool. At this point, I can believe that he and Condola did not know about the baby at that time. I can also believe that Condola knew and did not tell Lawrence because she was processing and that still would not make her a bad person. There does not need to be a bad guy in this situation even if they all decide to go their separate ways because of it.

Now for more unpopular opinions from me:

1. As much as I hated how they handled the PPD stuff (crammed really in one episode), I did not hate it.

2. I don't mind Tiffany. She has shown many times that she is vapid but a good friend. Well, many compared to as much air time that she gets.

3. As pretty as Nathan is, I am not seeing this amazing chemistry that he is having with Issa that some of you are seeing. I hope they continue to explore mental health issues within the black community but I have no need to see him and Issa as more than friends.

3. Over Molly. I know this relationship will bounce back as if this fallout never happened. I think that will bother me more than them becoming friends again.

I think what is bothering everyone is that :

• Molly would have never eaten the humble pie if Andrew had not dumped her
• She was not happy for Issa's success. Molly needed to be the top dawg in their friendship and I doubt this has changed.
• She tried to ruin Issa's event out of jealousy, though she has never admitted to it and we all need to hear that apology onscreen.

[Belle0712]

4 minutes ago, qtpye said:

 

Amanda Seales is acting like she is ready to go pick up her Emmy. I am beginning to think Tiffany is just a toned down version of the actress.

I think what is bothering everyone is that :

• Molly would have never eaten the humble pie if Andrew had not dumped her
• She was not happy for Issa's success. Molly needed to be the top dawg in their friendship and I doubt this has changed.
• She tried to ruin Issa's event out of jealousy, though she has never admitted to it and we all need to hear that apology onscreen.

 

u are absolutely correct on all accounts about molly. 

it took getting her heart broken to kinda sorta be able to find her humanity for issa. sure, they both have had their less than stellar moments in their friendship BUT molly seems to have taken pride in being awful and self absorbed. especially this season. 

[Enigma X]

I had no idea that there is tension between Amanda Seales and the rest of the cast. Hmmm...

[Belle0712]

1 minute ago, Enigma X said:

I had no idea that there is tension between Amanda Seales and the rest of the cast. Hmmm...

may be patched up now, but it wasn’t pretty from what i read....

[Enigma X]

49 minutes ago, Belle0712 said:

may be patched up now, but it wasn’t pretty from what i read....

The internet just caught me up. Wow!

[DearEvette]

9 hours ago, RealReality said:

I could be wrong, but I don't see how Lawrence stays on the show otherwise.  They clearly want to keep him on or else they would have shipped him off to SF.  I don't think this show lends itself to an actual child or family as a major storyline. 

He was missing for most of season 3.  And honestly I didn't miss him.  He popped up at the very end of the Coachella episode of course just when Issa and Nathan were getting hot. 

The rest of his storyline once he was back dragged.  In order for Lawrence to work, he needs to be interacting with Issa.  And I am not in the mood to see some dysfunctional romance triangle + baby makes 4.

[TVbitch]

I also do not want to watch another pregnancy/baby storyline in Season 4. 

Okay I will try to say something compassionate about Molly. Yes, she only crawled back to Issa because Andrew dumped her. ...But, sometimes in life it takes getting cold cocked by truth and dumped by friend or lover to shock and awe you enough to get over your own defenses and have some profoud self-realizations. So if she is in that place and can truly examine and be honest about her behavior, I will give her a chance.  

[Empress1]

14 hours ago, Belle0712 said:

at the after show “wine down” amanda seales went ON and ON about how she stopped doing her nails thru the season so we could see her gradual undoing. GIRL. we were not paying attention to your nails at all. 

Yeah. I don't pay attention to nails unless it's a plot point (e.g. someone bites their nails and people comment on it) or the nails are so long and/or done that you can't help but notice. I couldn't tell you anything about Tiffany's nails if you paid me.

The PPD storyline was telegraphed; Tiffany said she only liked the baby when she was quiet, said she should just leave the baby in the store, and didn't want to leave the block party. But the gradual unraveling was not there the way they think it was, and the wrap-up was really rushed.

[RealReality]

56 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

I also do not want to watch another pregnancy/baby storyline in Season 4. 

Okay I will try to say something compassionate about Molly. Yes, she only crawled back to Issa because Andrew dumped her. ...But, sometimes in life it takes getting cold cocked by truth and dumped by friend or lover to shock and awe you enough to get over your own defenses and have some profoud self-realizations. So if she is in that place and can truly examine and be honest about her behavior, I will give her a chance.  

I agree.  If she and issa have been friends since college, their friendship is a well worn path and Molly and issa are used to their roles.  Molly could convince herself that she really did nothing wrong and just being decent to issa was "really trying hard"

But I think Andrew was such a new relationship and had been such a success that the break up was, as you said, a cold cock.  

Even if Molly tries to convince others that Andrew was at fault, she knows that she fucked that up.  

3 hours ago, DearEvette said:

He was missing for most of season 3.  And honestly I didn't miss him.  He popped up at the very end of the Coachella episode of course just when Issa and Nathan were getting hot. 

The rest of his storyline once he was back dragged.  In order for Lawrence to work, he needs to be interacting with Issa.  And I am not in the mood to see some dysfunctional romance triangle + baby makes 4.

Its why I think that condola will eventually have a miscarriage or die. 

LOL, you're undoubtedly right about Lawrence in season 3, I forget a lot between seasons... particularly when they are SO.....FAR....APART.....just in case you're reading this issa Rae! 

Edited June 17, 2020 by RealReality

[Hera]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

The PPD storyline was telegraphed; Tiffany said she only liked the baby when she was quiet, said she should just leave the baby in the store, and didn't want to leave the block party. But the gradual unraveling was not there the way they think it was, and the wrap-up was really rushed.

Yeah, I was expecting a PPD storyline based on the above—it was clear Tiffany was struggling to bond with her baby—and I agree that the way the handled it felt tacked on. Did we see or hear from Tiffany at all in any of the episodes between the block party and the finale? I realize that could have been another hint, but absent characters mentioning they hadn't heard from her, I'm not inclined to count it. I think if they were going to talk about it this season, rather than leaving hints for a larger pay-off next season, they really needed a minimum of two episodes: one to kick off the crisis and the other to de-escalate it and start her on the road to recovery. Doing it all in the finale, when there were other storylines to wrap up (and ones that I was way more invested in), was a mistake, in my opinion.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Hera

[Empress1]

42 minutes ago, Hera said:

Did we see or hear from Tiffany at all in any of the episodes between the block party and the finale?

I don't think so. We saw Kelli holding the baby when Issa was on the phone with her but Tiffany wasn't there. I think the episodes after the block party were: Issa solo (raggedy bachelorette that ditched her), Molly solo (on vacation with Andrew), Issa and Lawrence reconnect, Issa and Molly go to brunch and at the end of the episode Molly tells Issa they don't fit, and now this episode. So like when were we supposed to notice Tiffany's nails?

[Amethyst]

On 6/17/2020 at 5:41 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Honestly, we didn't see her much this season and when we did, how visible were her hands? They definitely weren't noticeable and honestly, that's the kind of detail that I think would be normal for most new moms. When you have a newborn, you spend most of your time feeding the baby and sleeping for the first few months so it's not unusual for new moms not to prioritize getting their nails done.

This.  Tiffany's nails were the last thing I would have checked for, and even if they were manicured, it wouldn't have been some major clue to her PPD.  She's a first time mother.  Her going to the block party at all was a big deal.

The fact that Amanda had to add in those random details just shows how half-assed the PPD plot was.  You can't just sprinkle in a few breadcrumbs and expect the whole plot to be fleshed out by the finale.  Issa said that the girls didn't notice Tiffany's problems because they were too absorbed in their own.  But Tiffany wasn't actually there for them (or us) to notice.  Kelli and Chad were barely there, either.  

[RealReality]

While I agree that no one would have ever noticed the nails, I think it's kinda nice that she committed to the role enough to think through these tiny details and that she thought the audience would notice.  

And maybe it helped her get more into character.  

If they were trying to make the point that it's easy to miss a mental condition like PPD than I think Tiffany couldn't have done anything too drastic up until it became too much and she took off.  As you've all pointed out some of the dialogue was leading to PPD....but I didn't think they hit us over the head with it.  

IIRC, she was drinking a lot and kind of avoiding the baby.  But I could have seen that as someone just happy to be able to drink and get out again and who was perpetually tired because they had a new child.  

I suspect people who are perfectionists, like tiff and have this idealized idea of how they want their life to look maybe have a higher incidence of PPD.  

The media does not give it a ton of play.  All you see are bounce back bodies and happy families all over social media.  

Anyways, I think it might have been a conscious decision to not have Tiffany walking around looking messy....so all she had were the nails....which no one would notice. 

[talktoomuch]

Y'all are way more generous than I am. All I can think about this finale is how pissed I am that I paid for a whole month of HBO for that.

Just like Issa and Prentiss (and Amanda obvi) seem to think they broke some major ground with 16 minutes of PPD storyline, they don't seem to realize what character-burning damage they've done to Molly. It feels like they don't watch their own show to not realize that Molly's words and actions this season took what could have been from-college-to-real-adults growing pains and morphed it into scorched-earth-on-that-former-friend territory.

Molly did not have any balance, not a single real redeemable moment to detract from the destruction she wrought in Issa's life. It was too far and too much. And they didn't leave us anything to root for. At this point even if you could have seen Molly's side before, it's nearly impossible to do so now.

I could tell by that ending that Issa and Prentiss don't realize that they probably destroyed the whole character trying to build this friendship growth arc. But no one is rooting for Issa's and Molly's friendship unless we get a New and Improved Molly.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

He Said/She Said - Issa and Nathan

 

[LuvMyShows]

The ending of the PPD portion seemed very off.  Having Tiffany keep saying "I'm sorry" seemed as though the writers were saying that it's all good now because of her awareness. 

For the issa/Molly portion, as the camera was pulling away from the ending shot, I was watching the two of them interact, and Molly seemed to be gesturing pretty intently.  To me, it didn't look like someone being contrite and apologetic.