S05.E06: The Nordic Model

[dmc]

Quote

Axe's plans are threatened when an old scheme resurfaces. Chuck wages war on a new front, but a dangerous gambit tests his budding relationship. Taylor looks to make an impact in an emerging field.

Original air date 2020.06.07

[dmc]

this episode was actually good finally well for this season

My main question coming out of this episode is why was Wendy at Axe Capital for so long?

We are supposed to believe she's smart, talented so clearly she could work elsewhere and make the same money and the place was full of illegal activity for the longest time and the main point of contention in her marriage.  

It's pretty clear she has no feelings for Axe.  I am seriously curious, what kept her there?  

This show feels completely different this season and I do not recognize the characters, it's like they have all new writes none of their actions make any sense

This brings me to Chuck Sr.  the old $$$ family stays together no matter what guy

that left his wife for his mistress.  

Chuck feels the same but it's hard to believe in five seasons his only goal is to take down Axe.

Axe has turned into a total stalker.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by dmc

[RealReality]

I thought this episode was much better than the previous two.  Wendy knows exactly what axe did with that phone call and axe knows Wendy knows.  

I like Paul giamatti and I think he is a great actor, but I think that aesthetically, he wasn't the right choice for Chuck.  It's just hard to believe that he gets away with half the shit he does because he isn't particularly charming, he is a pretentious blowhard and he isn't good looking so what is his appeal?  

It's also a little weird that in the middle of trying to get a bank and dealing with a criminal case that axe wants to roll out a line of frozen pizza and gelatos, but okay.  And didn't the pizza guy say you have to eat them right out the woodfire oven or something?  Do rich fancy people buy frozen pizza?  Is this a grey poupon situation?

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by RealReality

[scrb]

Liked Chuck's antics, visiting Axe's apt, asking for wine then purposely staining the Van Gogh.  Chuck suppressed smiling while Axe eyes were bulging.

Too much Spiros, don't care.  But it was another eye roll scene, Axe demanding a letter in support from the SEC commissioner while calling her a part of the gang and then her stuffing his demand back in his face.

Fake Jackson Pollock thinks portraits are beneath him, doesn't want to be known for doing portraits because it's like a rock band doing covers.  

Well considering that this fictional character is shown doing covers of the work of famous real life painters ...

The tax dodge caper other than Chuck fucking with Axe was mildly amusing.  Of course if there's a tax dodge at issue, it would be a federal case, most likely.  But certainly more of state case than a city case, so that Manhattan DA wouldn't be in the picture.

Meanwhile we're suppose to buy that not only is Julianna Marguiles interested in schlubby Chuck but that she'd set up a threesome with a hot young chick for him?

Chuck Sr. can't find a kidney donor match, not among his legal nor illegitimate offspring.

Even Wendy takes a test.  She tells Taylor to think like Bobby, to win a bid over Oscar, who's out to sabotage all her green investments.

Finally Bobby has A LOT of free time for a deca billionaire.  If he wasn't spending enough time in Yonkers, he's spending all night stalking Wendy's trysts with the painter.

 

 

 

[scrb]

9 minutes ago, RealReality said:

It's also a little weird that in the middle of trying to get a bank and dealing with a criminal case that axe wants to roll out a line of frozen pizza and gelatos, but okay.  And didn't the pizza guy say you have to eat them right out the woodfire oven or something?  Do rich fancy people buy frozen pizza?  Is this a grey poupon situation?

 

There are products under the Wolfgang Puck label but they don't get great reviews.

Some other celebrity chefs with stuff too.

I'm sure they bring in some money but Axe is going on like it's going to be some huge liquidity event.

Some celebrity investors made a lot of money off products like Vitamin Water but we had a similar plot a couple of seasons ago and Axe spiked the Ice Juice, literally.

I'm not sure that frozen pizzas, sauces and gelatos are high volume products, certainly not like other frozen pizza, sauces and just regular Haagen Daas or Ben & Jerrys.

I think in the case of Ben & Jerry it took them years to make big money before they sold to a bigger company.

Axe made it sound like he could make the chef rich right away and sell for that big liquidity event like some Internet startup, meaning a couple of years or months.

[dmc]

16 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I thought this episode was much better than the previous two.  Wendy knows exactly what axe did with that phone call and axe knows Wendy knows.  

I like Paul giamatti and I think he is a great actor, but I think that aesthetically, he wasn't the right choice for Chuck.  It's just hard to believe that he gets away with half the shit he does because he isn't particularly charming, he is a pretentious blowhard and he isn't good looking so what is his appeal?  

It's also a little weird that in the middle of trying to get a bank and dealing with a criminal case that axe wants to roll out a line of frozen pizza and gelatos, but okay.  And didn't the pizza guy say you have to eat them right out the woodfire oven or something?  Do rich fancy people buy frozen pizza?  Is this a grey poupon situation?

 

if he's planning on putting it in the grocery store, I guess anyone can buy it.  

it's weird to me Axe keeps investing in pizza makers 

[LibertarianSlut]

Tanner sketching Wendy—what a cliche. He feels like he’s the one naked under the covers.  Ooh, the irony.

Since when do public officials—like Madam Chairperson from the SEC—make calls at private offices?

What’s a “regulatory Armageddon”?  How does that apply to Axe?  I feel like that line was there just to sound cool.  Fail.  

What is Taylor working on now?  Venture capitalists getting methane gas from the sea, and the amount of interest on this is like a hockey stick graph?  Why don’t they ever speak English?  And Oscar is working on the exact same thing at the exact same time with the exact same person?  And he lets Taylor manipulate his pitch as if he just got out of grad school?  Does Wendy do her job at all anymore, or does she just follow Taylor around, who is getting uglier and uglier?  I’m so tired of Taylor trying to be the anti-Axe.  She came on the show wanting to force Sandicott into austerity.  Why rewrite history?

So Chuck knew Axe had a real Van Gogh, because it has a weight to it that Chuck could visualize?  That’s plausible.

Why would Axe just let Chuck in?  Even if they’re still pretending to be buddies, if Axe had something to hide, he could have just told Chuck, “hey, look buddy, normally I would, but I’ve got tons of women up there.”  That was silly to me.  

Axe gives a big speech that he wants his workers earning more than ever and their response is to sit around asking Spyros MENSA questions?  I feel like the writers have no idea what to do with the people on the floor anymore. 

I liked Chuck Sr cataloging cretins to morons.

It seems like a lot of work to shuffle art from port to port just to avoid paying taxes on it.

I liked seeing the short guy again. He’s always good. Not trying too hard.  Not becoming a caricature of who he once was.  

So Chuck, who is NY AG, needs Cat to tell him why sex work should remain illegal so he can get a leg up on Graham, but she won’t tell him?  As if there aren’t thousands of other sources for making a legal argument about something that’s illegal.  That was just plot service too so that Chuck could get the “reward” (or however Chuck wants to think of it) in the form of the beautiful sex worker in the end.  

Though Chuck threatening Graham with “Inga” at the restaurant was the most like Billions this show has felt all season.

Axe wouldn’t be able to convert a residential space into a commercial space in NYC.  If it was going to happen at all, it would take years.  That was very silly to me.  

We’re halfway through the season and all we have to go on is that Axe wants a bank and Senior needs a kidney.  That and a whole lot more could have been established over the course of a couple of segments of the first episode in any previous season.  

Edited June 7, 2020 by LibertarianSlut
Typos

[l star]

This was by far the best ep of the season to me. I loved Taylor's initial takedown of Oscar. I would have been fine if it had been left there though I did like their resulting session with Wendy. I don't understand why Oscar keeps showing up. He's not a real challenge to Taylor and doesn't ring true as the one that got away. I don't see the purpose of Spyros either. At least his antics this ep gave Mafee a chance to be more than the class clown for once.

Taylor and Wendy's new enterprise isn't hitting for me yet. I still prefer the two of them to almost every other person or combo on the show, but it just doesn't feel solid enough yet. I hate the way Wendy lurks like window dressing in every meeting. She's fine in client meetings- her skill there is why she's involved at all- but it's unnecessary in the office.

I really couldn't stand Chuck this ep. He was reveling in being an asshole in the scene with Axe. He had Axe cornered with Wendy and the kids and loved it. I was with Axe- Wendy should have pissed that Chuck used the kids to screw him.

Chuck and the DA talking about prostitution was even worse. I might have let it go if I couldn't so easily see him actually doing it. Cat is fine, but I wish they would get passed the fascination with Chuck and sex. There is nothing appealing about Chuck at this point.

I feel like I'm supposed to feel sorry for Chuck and Senior in their scenes, but I really just want to push fast forward. Senior seems to be there to make Chuck look better in comparison, but it's still not enough.

I appreciated that Wendy was both unwilling to apologize for Chuck and somewhat unwilling to get sucked into his vortex of self-pity. I was honestly hoping that she wouldn't even sit down. He was really just there to get propped up again.

I like that when Wendy says she's about to kick Axe out, he takes it seriously and clears out. He could have easily thrown in her face that she was living in his apartment and he wouldn't have the Chuck problem if she wasn't, but he didn't. Given that I honestly just assume he'll be an ass at all times, it says a lot about how he sees her. He was so jealous about that drawing though. If I were her, I'd have wanted to keep it too. It was beautiful. That kind of thing hits my romance button though, cliche or not.

Way to be a jealous creeper, Axe. I can't believe he stayed up all night watching for her to leave just to suggest a double date. Is the deal here that he wants her to make the first move? He is at least trying to play nice which is to his credit but dude. Just make a move already.

On 6/7/2020 at 3:36 PM, dmc said:

My main question coming out of this episode is why was Wendy at Axe Capital for so long?

We are supposed to believe she's smart, talented so clearly she could work elsewhere and make the same money and the place was full of illegal activity for the longest time and the main point of contention in her marriage.  

It's pretty clear she has no feelings for Axe.  I am seriously curious, what kept her there?  

I think she stayed partially because she loves Axe. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's a romantic love, but he and their friendship have been shown repeatedly to be enormously important to her. The other reason I think is because they built the company together. She's dedicated years of her life to building Axe Cap into the powerhouse that it is.

[RealReality]

26 minutes ago, l star said:

This was by far the best ep of the season to me. I loved Taylor's initial takedown of Oscar. I would have been fine if it had been left there though I did like their resulting session with Wendy. I don't understand why Oscar keeps showing up. He's not a real challenge to Taylor and doesn't ring true as the one that got away. I don't see the purpose of Spyros either. At least his antics this ep gave Mafee a chance to be more than the class clown for once.

Taylor and Wendy's new enterprise isn't hitting for me yet. I still prefer the two of them to almost every other person or combo on the show, but it just doesn't feel solid enough yet. I hate the way Wendy lurks like window dressing in every meeting. She's fine in client meetings- her skill there is why she's involved at all- but it's unnecessary in the office.

I really couldn't stand Chuck this ep. He was reveling in being an asshole in the scene with Axe. He had Axe cornered with Wendy and the kids and loved it. I was with Axe- Wendy should have pissed that Chuck used the kids to screw him.

Chuck and the DA talking about prostitution was even worse. I might have let it go if I couldn't so easily see him actually doing it. Cat is fine, but I wish they would get passed the fascination with Chuck and sex. There is nothing appealing about Chuck at this point.

I feel like I'm supposed to feel sorry for Chuck and Senior in their scenes, but I really just want to push fast forward. Senior seems to be there to make Chuck look better in comparison, but it's still not enough.

I appreciated that Wendy was both unwilling to apologize for Chuck and somewhat unwilling to get sucked into his vortex of self-pity. I was honestly hoping that she wouldn't even sit down. He was really just there to get propped up again.

I like that when Wendy says she's about to kick Axe out, he takes it seriously and clears out. He could have easily thrown in her face that she was living in his apartment and he wouldn't have the Chuck problem if she wasn't, but he didn't. Given that I honestly just assume he'll be an ass at all times, it says a lot about how he sees her. He was so jealous about that drawing though. If I were her, I'd have wanted to keep it too. It was beautiful. That kind of thing hits my romance button though, cliche or not.

Way to be a jealous creeper, Axe. I can't believe he stayed up all night watching for her to leave just to suggest a double date. Is the deal here that he wants her to make the first move? He is at least trying to play nice which is to his credit but dude. Just make a move already.

I think she stayed partially because she loves Axe. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's a romantic love, but he and their friendship have been shown repeatedly to be enormously important to her. The other reason I think is because they built the company together. She's dedicated years of her life to building Axe Cap into the powerhouse that it is.

I might be giving this show too much credit, but I think axe called the second Wendy stepped out of the building to let her know that he was watching her.  

She definitely seemed to be putting two and two together, so I think she knew and he knew that she knew.  

 

[dmc]

1 hour ago, l star said:

This was by far the best ep of the season to me. I loved Taylor's initial takedown of Oscar. I would have been fine if it had been left there though I did like their resulting session with Wendy. I don't understand why Oscar keeps showing up. He's not a real challenge to Taylor and doesn't ring true as the one that got away. I don't see the purpose of Spyros either. At least his antics this ep gave Mafee a chance to be more than the class clown for once.

Taylor and Wendy's new enterprise isn't hitting for me yet. I still prefer the two of them to almost every other person or combo on the show, but it just doesn't feel solid enough yet. I hate the way Wendy lurks like window dressing in every meeting. She's fine in client meetings- her skill there is why she's involved at all- but it's unnecessary in the office.

I really couldn't stand Chuck this ep. He was reveling in being an asshole in the scene with Axe. He had Axe cornered with Wendy and the kids and loved it. I was with Axe- Wendy should have pissed that Chuck used the kids to screw him.

Chuck and the DA talking about prostitution was even worse. I might have let it go if I couldn't so easily see him actually doing it. Cat is fine, but I wish they would get passed the fascination with Chuck and sex. There is nothing appealing about Chuck at this point.

I feel like I'm supposed to feel sorry for Chuck and Senior in their scenes, but I really just want to push fast forward. Senior seems to be there to make Chuck look better in comparison, but it's still not enough.

I appreciated that Wendy was both unwilling to apologize for Chuck and somewhat unwilling to get sucked into his vortex of self-pity. I was honestly hoping that she wouldn't even sit down. He was really just there to get propped up again.

I like that when Wendy says she's about to kick Axe out, he takes it seriously and clears out. He could have easily thrown in her face that she was living in his apartment and he wouldn't have the Chuck problem if she wasn't, but he didn't. Given that I honestly just assume he'll be an ass at all times, it says a lot about how he sees her. He was so jealous about that drawing though. If I were her, I'd have wanted to keep it too. It was beautiful. That kind of thing hits my romance button though, cliche or not.

Way to be a jealous creeper, Axe. I can't believe he stayed up all night watching for her to leave just to suggest a double date. Is the deal here that he wants her to make the first move? He is at least trying to play nice which is to his credit but dude. Just make a move already.

I think she stayed partially because she loves Axe. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's a romantic love, but he and their friendship have been shown repeatedly to be enormously important to her. The other reason I think is because they built the company together. She's dedicated years of her life to building Axe Cap into the powerhouse that it is.

I think what you’re saying is how we’re supposed to view it but there’s something unsatisfying about it. The show keeps saying they are friends and I guess that’s true.  But they are mostly work friends.  She knows a lot of personal details about him by nature of her job. But they aren’t friends that hang out or talk on the phone and it wasn’t like he and Lara were having dinner over their house.  I think his actions toward her have always been motivated by more than friendship.  It was why Lara was so threatened by their relationship.  Chuck feels the same way threatened by their relationship.  If they are really friends, they would still be friends with her working elsewhere.   Now it seems like Chuck was worried about noting.  

[Bulldog]

I liked SEC lady even if it was completely unbelievable that she would take a meeting at Axe's offices.  I especially liked her reply when Axe said he would take the stock exchange gavel and beat Spyros with it if it would make her feel better and she said it wouldn't make her feel worse. 

Showing my age - but I wonder if someone in the casting department has some connection to the old soap  Guiding Light.  Frank Grillo, Daniel Cosgrove, Patti D'Arbanville - lots of GL guest stars on the show. 

I guess I'm dense, but I'm still somewhat confused about the business arrangement between Axe and Taylor.  Is she his employee or not?  She seems to have carte blanche authority to conduct her own business on Axe's dime. 

So Chuck Sr tells Chuck Jr that bastard offspring would water down an inheritance, then turns around and admits he already contacted them.  If they didn't know that they were his offspring before, wouldn't the inquiry alert them to the fact and give them a claim to the inheritance anyway.  

Am I the only one thinking it wasn't an accident that Wendy let Axe see the drawing?  Wouldn't a psychiatrist say that there are no accidents? 

Pizza guy might make the best pizza in the world, but isn't he still just a small time local pizza restaurant owner?  Would he really have the cache to launch a mass market frozen food line?  Is he supposed to be that well known? 

7 hours ago, RealReality said:

I like Paul giamatti and I think he is a great actor, but I think that aesthetically, he wasn't the right choice for Chuck.  It's just hard to believe that he gets away with half the shit he does because he isn't particularly charming, he is a pretentious blowhard and he isn't good looking so what is his appeal?  

I don't think it is that odd.  Think of all the well known national politicians.  I can't think of any that I would consider especially good looking (or charming for that matter, either).  

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Bulldog

[Broderbits]

1 hour ago, dmc said:

 If they are really friends, they would still be friends with her working elsewhere.

Axe once said that Wendy was the company's "spirit animal", and I think he believes she is necessary to Axe Cap's maximum success. Remembering the time she wasn't there and they had another performance coach, things just didn't run as smoothly, or at least not to his satisfaction. He's possessive of her, but not in a sexual way. It's much more profound than that.

[edhopper]

And the pizza, please, there is a lot of great pizza in NY. There is great Neopolitan pizza. None of them are so much better than all the others that they could warrant a multi million dollar food line. Also, you can't make a frozen Neapolitan pizza worth a damn. You need fresh dough and a special oven. It doesn't  lend itself to factories, and any true pizza maker would be insulted by Axe.

 

[scrb]

And people don't know this chef, never heard of him.

So why would they pay a premium price for this guy's mass-produced foods?

Celebrity chefs are known so that goes a long way towards establishing a brand.

Just being this asshole billionaire's favorite pizza maker isn't a brand.

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, Bulldog said:

I liked SEC lady even if it was completely unbelievable that she would take a meeting at Axe's offices.  I especially liked her reply when Axe said he would take the stock exchange gavel and beat Spyros with it if it would make her feel better and she said it wouldn't make her feel worse. 

Showing my age - but I wonder if someone in the casting department has some connection to the old soap  Guiding Light.  Frank Grillo, Daniel Cosgrove, Patti D'Arbanville - lots of GL guest stars on the show. 

I guess I'm dense, but I'm still somewhat confused about the business arrangement between Axe and Taylor.  Is she his employee or not?  She seems to have carte blanche authority to conduct her own business on Axe's dime. 

So Chuck Sr tells Chuck Jr that bastard offspring would water down an inheritance, then turns around and admits he already contacted them.  If they didn't know that they were his offspring before, wouldn't the inquiry alert them to the fact and give them a claim to the inheritance anyway.  

Am I the only one thinking it wasn't an accident that Wendy let Axe see the drawing?  Wouldn't a psychiatrist say that there are no accidents? 

Pizza guy might make the best pizza in the world, but isn't he still just a small time local pizza restaurant owner?  Would he really have the cache to launch a mass market frozen food line?  Is he supposed to be that well known? 

I don't think it is that odd.  Think of all the well known national politicians.  I can't think of any that I would consider especially good looking (or charming for that matter, either).  

 

I think of that guy from new york, the one who got caught with the prostitute...spitzer.  I'm guessing thats loosely who they might be trying to base chuck on.  

And I'd agree that spitzer isn't a looker, but he also doesn't come off as a blow hard and the first time I heard him host his new show he seems engaging and intelligent.  

It's like....you gotta have something besides intelligence.....looks, charm...something.  if chuck seemed like a guy you wanted to sit and have a chat with or he was charismatic, I'd get it.  But I get like nothing. 

I think there are at least blandly handsome men on both sides of the aisle. And a few who are more than that.  

Edited June 8, 2020 by RealReality

[ahpny]

14 hours ago, l star said:

Way to be a jealous creeper, Axe. I can't believe he stayed up all night watching for her to leave just to suggest a double date. Is the deal here that he wants her to make the first move? He is at least trying to play nice which is to his credit but dude. Just make a move already.

I found this odd and out of character for Axe. He's always been creepy and amoral in all sorts of ways - except notably by abusing women. He's never been shown to have done that, and has had ample opportunities to do so. He was scrupulously faithful to his wife while married (though emotionally slutty, which pissed off Lara for reasons Axe couldn't understand). Now all of a sudden, he must "own" Wendy and he becomes unhinged by her relationship with the artist? Axe "possessing" Wendy might make more sense as a ploy for Axe to get under Chuck's skin, but that's not what appears to be going on at all.

[Carolina Girl]

17 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Why would Axe just let Chuck in?  Even if they’re still pretending to be buddies, if Axe had something to hide, he could have just told Chuck, “hey, look buddy, normally I would, but I’ve got tons of women up there.”  That was silly to me.  

Should have told him to wait there and he'd look for it.  Axe has kids - he'd know what to look for.  

[dmc]

11 hours ago, Broderbits said:

Axe once said that Wendy was the company's "spirit animal", and I think he believes she is necessary to Axe Cap's maximum success. Remembering the time she wasn't there and they had another performance coach, things just didn't run as smoothly, or at least not to his satisfaction. He's possessive of her, but not in a sexual way. It's much more profound than that.

His motivations are clear to me,  hers I think are murky.  

[PrincessPurrsALot]

41 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

Should have told him to wait there and he'd look for it.  Axe has kids - he'd know what to look for.  

What really bothered me was Axe not even knowing what it was.  These folks seem to always know every cultural reference.  Video games are outside of Axe's scope of knowledge?  That whole scene was too clunky.  Both Chuck and Axe are usually more circumspect, at least at the beginning, in their scheming.  Now it was let me show up in the middle of the day and figuratively wave my dick in your face while I rifle through your house. The Axe we have been shown throughout the show would not have allowed this.

[Auntie Anxiety]

20 hours ago, scrb said:

Chuck Sr. can't find a kidney donor match, not among his legal nor illegitimate offspring.

Watch for Willow being a match. Just an educated guess.

 

20 hours ago, scrb said:

Meanwhile we're suppose to buy that not only is Julianna Marguiles interested in schlubby Chuck but that she'd set up a threesome with a hot young chick for him?

I wrote something similar in Episode 5 thread: Julianna Marguiles is supposed to be enamored with Paul Giamatti? After being with George Clooney, Josh Charles and Chris Noth? Paul Giamatti may be a good actor, but he is so unappealing. His sex scenes (or the thought of them) leaves me nauseated.

[Sycophant4Lease]

42 minutes ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Watch for Willow being a match. Just an educated guess.

 

I wrote something similar in Episode 5 thread: Julianna Marguiles is supposed to be enamored with Paul Giamatti? After being with George Clooney, Josh Charles and Chris Noth? Paul Giamatti may be a good actor, but he is so unappealing. His sex scenes (or the thought of them) leaves me nauseated.

While I DO NOT disagree with everyone's take on Paul Giamatti.  I'd like to point out the hipocracy of it.

If it were men commenting on Maggie Siff's nice figure. Or (insert unattractive female here) not so nice figure or face, we'd be called misogynists or pigs or dogs or all three.

 

I'm not excusing the behavior of men.  Just pointing out something I've noticed.

[Auntie Anxiety]

13 minutes ago, Sycophant4Lease said:

f it were men commenting on Maggie Siff's nice figure. Or (insert unattractive female here) not so nice figure or face, we'd be called misogynists or pigs or dogs or all three.

Yes, I agree that we’d be taken to task, but so be it.

I prefer the words “honest and allowed to have an opinion.” 

[RealReality]

42 minutes ago, Sycophant4Lease said:

While I DO NOT disagree with everyone's take on Paul Giamatti.  I'd like to point out the hipocracy of it.

If it were men commenting on Maggie Siff's nice figure. Or (insert unattractive female here) not so nice figure or face, we'd be called misogynists or pigs or dogs or all three.

 

I'm not excusing the behavior of men.  Just pointing out something I've noticed.

From my perspective, it's the fact that someone to get away with the stuff chuck does has to bring something to the table.  Charisma, charm, aesthetic appeal.  Something.....anything!  

He married a gorgeous, intelligent, charismatic medical doctor. 

Wendy, as much as I find her annoying, is objectively a catch.  She is not politically ambitious.  So what did chuck ever bring to the table for her?  

It's just this weird Hollywood trend of shlubby guys punching way above their weight.

A woman like Wendy should expect to be with a guy who isn't charismatic, isn't charming, appears to have little empathy, is argumentative, unattractive and more than a little out of shape (or at least not in the shape Wendy is in).  

I guess it might make sense if she was politically ambitious, but she is not.  

Chuck brings nothing to the table, and he is such a pretentious blow hard.  Which he may realistically get away with, if he was dazzlingly good looking or fit, or kind of attractive. 

We so rarely see the other pairing on shows that I think I'd comment on it.  It's just so rare to see a "shlubby woman" with a guy who is good looking, ambitious, educated, intelligent and fit.  I'm sure it has happened it just doesn't seem to be a trend. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by RealReality

[Broderbits]

1 hour ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

I wrote something similar in Episode 5 thread: Julianna Marguiles is supposed to be enamored with Paul Giamatti? After being with George Clooney, Josh Charles and Chris Noth? Paul Giamatti may be a good actor, but he is so unappealing. His sex scenes (or the thought of them) leaves me nauseated.

Personally, I find everyone in this show extremely unappealing and wouldn't want to venture closer than a 10 ft. radius much less have sex with them. But that's just me.

Does anyone else think Damien Lewis looks a little haggard? His body seems to have shrunk or lost muscle tone or something.

[Auntie Anxiety]

10 minutes ago, RealReality said:

From my perspective, it's the fact that someone to get away with the stuff chuck does has to bring something to the table.  Charisma, charm, aesthetic appeal.  Something.....anything!  

He married a gorgeous, intelligent, charismatic medical doctor. 

Wendy, as much as I find her annoying, is objectively a catch.  She is not politically ambitious.  So what did chuck ever bring to the table for her?  

I thought about this since the very first episode. And I wondered how TPTB thought that Wendy, a trained, smart, beautiful doctor/psychiatrist would find anything appealing about Chuck. Even if she did love Chuck, his parents and his upbringing would have been a huge red flag for ANYONE, regardless of a medical degree. And then to have not one, but two kids with him? Has he shown one single moment of paternal caring or tenderness toward those kids? 

I can’t recall any backstory on Wendy. Is she like a child of an alcoholic, who finds a similar type to marry so she can attempt to make things right or at least hang with the devil she knows?

 

[Auntie Anxiety]

18 minutes ago, Broderbits said:

Does anyone else think Damien Lewis looks a little haggard? His body seems to have shrunk or lost muscle tone or something.

I thought he looked good with the hair and beard in the season opener. Unfortunately, age has caught up with him.

[yourmomiseasy]

2 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Watch for Willow being a match. Just an educated guess.

 

Can babies even donate kidneys?  Aside from the ethical issues around informed consent (this is Billions, so obviously ethics do not apply), would a baby kidney be "strong" enough for an adult?

25 minutes ago, RealReality said:

It's just this weird Hollywood trend of shlubby guys punching way above their weight.

 

Is it so weird given who is in power in Hollywood and who is in writers rooms?  

As for Chuck, he arguably has money and power, both of which some women find attractive.  So in general an argument can be made for him getting some women that seem out of his league, but the show hasn't demonstrated that those are the women he is getting. I can't remember if Wendy already had money when they met, but she doesn't seem like a gold digger, so maybe she was attracted to his ambition and/or power?  I know we were shown a flashback for Wendy and Chuck, but i care so little about them I can't remember shit.  With the new professor she might be intrigued by his openness about his kink, not realizing that it was a last ditch effort to stop some calamity.   

Edited June 8, 2020 by yourmomiseasy

[Auntie Anxiety]

1 minute ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Can babies even donate kidneys?  Aside from the ethical issues around informed consent, would a baby kidney be "strong" enough for an adult?

Babies probably cannot be kidney donors, but 1) it could set up some kind of drama wrt Senior being his usual selfish douche-ness and fights with his new wife, 2) he can be written as being on dialysis until she is old enough to be a donor, or 3) the writers have thrown reality out the window long ago and don’t care.

[l star]

I give the show a pass on Wendy/Chuck. They’ve been married 15+ years or so. First off, physically there’s no accounting for taste. Second, a younger, ambitious Chuck trying to move up the ranks and newly in love was probably less of an asshole than current Chuck. I’ve always just assumed they clicked as two bright, intelligent, ambitious people with similar world views and goals. 

The new girlfriend is where I draw the line. What about current Chuck is so appealing to her? Excluding physicality, he’s intelligent, successful, ambitious, well connected, and powerful. Every indication has been that he’s a good dad. His personality however is atrocious.  So what hooked her so fast? I don’t get it. If they worked together maybe, if they were old friends, or even if it was a slow burn situation, I could see it. He does have some positive characteristics. But no way do I buy that a beautiful, smart, successful woman was just waiting to jump Chuck based on a very few personality driven interactions. He’s an asshole. 

[RealReality]

17 minutes ago, l star said:

I give the show a pass on Wendy/Chuck. They’ve been married 15+ years or so. First off, physically there’s no accounting for taste. Second, a younger, ambitious Chuck trying to move up the ranks and newly in love was probably less of an asshole than current Chuck. I’ve always just assumed they clicked as two bright, intelligent, ambitious people with similar world views and goals. 

The new girlfriend is where I draw the line. What about current Chuck is so appealing to her? Excluding physicality, he’s intelligent, successful, ambitious, well connected, and powerful. Every indication has been that he’s a good dad. His personality however is atrocious.  So what hooked her so fast? I don’t get it. If they worked together maybe, if they were old friends, or even if it was a slow burn situation, I could see it. He does have some positive characteristics. But no way do I buy that a beautiful, smart, successful woman was just waiting to jump Chuck based on a very few personality driven interactions. He’s an asshole. 

I won't put too fine a point on it but Wendy's astronaut and the artist are fine as hell.  Physically I wouldn't put chuck in that group, the same way no one should physically put me in a group with fashion models. 

If astronaut and artist are Wendy's physical type, I don't think chuck fits. 

Even axe is more physically attractive (but Damian Lewis in Wolfe hall? Rawr!)

Edited June 8, 2020 by RealReality

[txhorns79]

6 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Can babies even donate kidneys?  Aside from the ethical issues around informed consent (this is Billions, so obviously ethics do not apply), would a baby kidney be "strong" enough for an adult?

No.  Babies cannot be organ donors for full grown adults, and by the time she was old enough to donate, Senior would likely be dead. 

Quote

Showing my age - but I wonder if someone in the casting department has some connection to the old soap  Guiding Light.  Frank Grillo, Daniel Cosgrove, Patti D'Arbanville - lots of GL guest stars on the show. 

My guess would be that there is overlap because both shows filmed in New York, and many of the old Guiding Light people still live there. 

Axe's stalking of Wendy was just too creepy.  Even she looked a little freaked out when Axe gave her that call after leaving the painter's house. 

[rhygirl720]

Once again Taylor playing chess here was entertaining. I really enjoy Taylor/Wendy interactions.

Axe stalking Wendy  was super creepy and once again Axe is super transparent. How did this guy get so rich

Chuck comes from wealth and has power  and there are many examples  in real life of men like this with wives above their pay grade.  I do see chemistry between Chuck and Kat maybe it's just good acting.

The whole art shenanigans was completely ridiculous.

Wendy and the artist revisit their college years..

I'm sure the baby is a match for  Sr...predictable.

[dwmarch]

I laughed at the line about Axe having a Bob Ross painting in his collection. There is a warehouse full of Bob Ross paintings and they are not for sale. Any Bob Ross paintings you find on Ebay are fakes. Bob Ross might not be Picasso (link is to the Epic Rap Battle of history between the two) but his art is just as rare. I bet Axe does have one somewhere.

About this whole museum plot, did anyone tell Wendy that her apartment was being converted into a museum? She's still staying there right? Even if she's having sleepovers with Tanner, her kid still plays video games at Axe's apartment... so she should be surprised to find out her living space is now a gallery.

I love that Mafee is a casual genius. I take it he took the Mensa test at the same time and sent in his results as Spyros'? Or was he somehow mirroring Spyros' computer and checking the correct options? Either way, it was great to see that he's actually super smart. Dollar Bill gets short-changed sometimes too, playing a buffoon role because he's loud and aggressive. But Dollar Bill is also wicked smart, the human factor that the quant team can't account for. I hope he gets his mojo back soon.

Axe, I know the heart wants what it wants but maybe wait a while on Wendy? She's still in the middle of a messy divorce with Chuck and she slept with Tanner the second time she met him. She's not waiting for you so why are you waiting for her?

[Marley]

Chuck is such a loser. I hate him more and more every episode. Just move on from Axe and go solve some other crime for once.

Axe watching Wendy all night was really weird.

I don’t care if Chucks dad dies. He’s a pos.

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

No.  Babies cannot be organ donors for full grown adults, and by the time she was old enough to donate, Senior would likely be dead. 

My guess would be that there is overlap because both shows filmed in New York, and many of the old Guiding Light people still live there. 

Axe's stalking of Wendy was just too creepy.  Even she looked a little freaked out when Axe gave her that call after leaving the painter's house. 

See, maybe the writers have bamboozled me, because I think axe purposefully called just as Wendy stepped out of the apartment because he WANTED her to know that HE knew.

He knows how smart she is, she is the type who could put two and two together.  Now THAT would be a controlling power move if that was the case. 

If Wendy's boyfriend truly didn't give a shit about money, he would simply copy a Bob Ross or Thomas kincade and collect his money, just to fuck with axe. 

But I expect he doesn't want to just make art for love.  

ETA -id love to own a Bob Ross.  I betcha if his art ever went on the market it would make a killing. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by RealReality

[MartyQui]

13 hours ago, dwmarch said:

I love that Mafee is a casual genius. I take it he took the Mensa test at the same time and sent in his results as Spyros'? Or was he somehow mirroring Spyros' computer and checking the correct options? Either way, it was great to see that he's actually super smart.

I qualified for Mensa based on my SAT scores, but once I found out it was a room full of Spiros types I was horrified.  There should be something more interesting about you than your ability to do well on standardized tests.  I generally love Mafee, I think he's a very interesting character.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

I was happy to see Mafee excel. Too often this show shows the folks who work for Axe as a bunch of buffoons.  It is as if Wendy, Taylor and Axe are geniuses and everyone else would struggle to get the top off of a shoebox without their help.  These folks wouldn't be in these positions if they couldn't do the job, do detailed analysis and provide solid information.  

I too qualified for Mensa then took a look at the events and people and opted out.  Spiros can have it. 😁🙄 

[Lemons]

5 minutes ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

I was happy to see Mafee excel. Too often this show shows the folks who work for Axe as a bunch of buffoons.  It is as if Wendy, Taylor and Axe are geniuses and everyone else would struggle to get the top off of a shoebox without their help.  These folks wouldn't be in these positions if they couldn't do the job, do detailed analysis and provide solid information.  

I too qualified for Mensa then took a look at the events and people and opted out.  Spiros can have it. 😁🙄 

It’s typical that the baffoon of the group aces those type of tests.  And they all look at Mafee shocked but if want to bet who is in the 99% of some type of test, bet on the Mafee of the group.   

[l star]

On 6/7/2020 at 8:11 PM, dmc said:

I think what you’re saying is how we’re supposed to view it but there’s something unsatisfying about it. The show keeps saying they are friends and I guess that’s true.  But they are mostly work friends.  She knows a lot of personal details about him by nature of her job. But they aren’t friends that hang out or talk on the phone and it wasn’t like he and Lara were having dinner over their house.  I think his actions toward her have always been motivated by more than friendship.  It was why Lara was so threatened by their relationship.  Chuck feels the same way threatened by their relationship.  If they are really friends, they would still be friends with her working elsewhere.   Now it seems like Chuck was worried about noting.  

Gordie called her 'Aunt Wendy'. We've seen them having dinner after work, on a double date, Wendy hanging out with Axe's girlfriend away from the office, and phone conversations when Axe was away. She was the one he had to see and make amends with before going to jail. I think we've seen plenty to suggest that Axe and Wendy are more than just work friends. I do think they kept more of a distance when they were both married though. Chuck and Lara were both clearly jealous of their bond so I suspect they appeased them by limiting their social interactions to couple or family time as much as possible. I agree that they would still be friends if Wendy worked somewhere else, which she looked into, but that doesn't account for her wanting to be at Axe Cap. She's said repeatedly that she considers it hers too and wants to be there.

On 6/8/2020 at 9:00 AM, ahpny said:

I found this odd and out of character for Axe. He's always been creepy and amoral in all sorts of ways - except notably by abusing women. He's never been shown to have done that, and has had ample opportunities to do so. He was scrupulously faithful to his wife while married (though emotionally slutty, which pissed off Lara for reasons Axe couldn't understand). Now all of a sudden, he must "own" Wendy and he becomes unhinged by her relationship with the artist? Axe "possessing" Wendy might make more sense as a ploy for Axe to get under Chuck's skin, but that's not what appears to be going on at all.

I would say Axe has no filter or control when it comes to personal 'betrayals' by the women he loves, and that can lead to abusive behavior. We saw it when he thought Wendy told Chuck confidential patient information about him- he couldn't even play it cool long enough keep the advantage Hall recommended, when he lost his shit because Lara wouldn't pick up the phone after she left him, and even when he yelled at his mom about giving money to his dad. With others, like Chuck, Taylor or even Rebecca, he's able to keep the more visceral level of anger under control even when their transgressions are arguably much worse.

Axe seems to be stuck in a kind of limbo with Wendy. It's clear that he wants more from her and is jealous of her relationship with Tanner. It's also clear that he's making an effort to be respectful like leaving her office when she said and offering a double date. I think he's stuck between the two and unsure how to step (I still think he really just wants her to make the step so he doesn't have to guess). Watching her put him in a position of power which is where he's most comfortable, but it was false and he knows it. The phone call effectively let her know what he did, and hopefully she will react. My question is if this is a one-time misstep like the aggressive phone calls to Lara or a troubling shift in their dynamic. I can work with the first but no thank you to the second.

[RealReality]

20 minutes ago, l star said:

Gordie called her 'Aunt Wendy'. We've seen them having dinner after work, on a double date, Wendy hanging out with Axe's girlfriend away from the office, and phone conversations when Axe was away. She was the one he had to see and make amends with before going to jail. I think we've seen plenty to suggest that Axe and Wendy are more than just work friends. I do think they kept more of a distance when they were both married though. Chuck and Lara were both clearly jealous of their bond so I suspect they appeased them by limiting their social interactions to couple or family time as much as possible. I agree that they would still be friends if Wendy worked somewhere else, which she looked into, but that doesn't account for her wanting to be at Axe Cap. She's said repeatedly that she considers it hers too and wants to be there.

I would say Axe has no filter or control when it comes to personal 'betrayals' by the women he loves, and that can lead to abusive behavior. We saw it when he thought Wendy told Chuck confidential patient information about him- he couldn't even play it cool long enough keep the advantage Hall recommended, when he lost his shit because Lara wouldn't pick up the phone after she left him, and even when he yelled at his mom about giving money to his dad. With others, like Chuck, Taylor or even Rebecca, he's able to keep the more visceral level of anger under control even when their transgressions are arguably much worse.

Axe seems to be stuck in a kind of limbo with Wendy. It's clear that he wants more from her and is jealous of her relationship with Tanner. It's also clear that he's making an effort to be respectful like leaving her office when she said and offering a double date. I think he's stuck between the two and unsure how to step (I still think he really just wants her to make the step so he doesn't have to guess). Watching her put him in a position of power which is where he's most comfortable, but it was false and he knows it. The phone call effectively let her know what he did, and hopefully she will react. My question is if this is a one-time misstep like the aggressive phone calls to Lara or a troubling shift in their dynamic. I can work with the first but no thank you to the second.

I think axe is going to use the "double date" to belittle Tanner. 

Not sure how, probably some suggestion that he "owns him" which he already did by making him do a personal portrait for someone Tanner would hate (and apparently in the style of a "captain of industry" painting, which seems particularly egregious).

Axe will do this in an effort to show Wendy he is the alpha dog.  And Wendy may fight this, but axe can get in her head too. 

[Meres]

On 6/8/2020 at 11:45 AM, Broderbits said:

Personally, I find everyone in this show extremely unappealing and wouldn't want to venture closer than a 10 ft. radius much less have sex with them. But that's just me.

Does anyone else think Damien Lewis looks a little haggard? His body seems to have shrunk or lost muscle tone or something.

I've always thought he looks like a ventriloquist's dummy.

[NoReally]

Quote

I've always thought he looks like a ventriloquist's dummy.

Thanks. Now I'll never be able un-see this!  😄

[Bizabra]

I'm wondering why this artist is living in that studio/loft that Axe provided. Did he NOT have his OWN home and studio to work in? WHERE did he create all his OTHER art works? I just find that odd.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Mr. Rumba. Fake Mensa pin. Just when you think Spyros can't be more pathetic.

Ditto comments upthread, not sure why the chair of the SEC would allow themselves to be summoned to Axe's offices. Not unless she didn't want them sullying her offices instead.

Man, Taylor went in on their ex with that imitation at the VC presentation. He walked into it though. Fool.

Wow, Chuck was willing to sacrifice children being sex trafficked. He's not a POS, he's the whole log.

Axe is sad. Staying up all night waiting to see Wendy do the walk of shame on the security camera. How old is he, 12?

Quote

I liked seeing the short guy again.

I don't care about him one way or the other but I'm thinking the main point of his scene with Tanner was to make Tanner look taller than he his. 😼

Quote

I think axe purposefully called just as Wendy stepped out of the apartment because he WANTED her to know that HE knew.

I think so too. Basic stalker move.

[Lemons]

22 minutes ago, Bizabra said:

I'm wondering why this artist is living in that studio/loft that Axe provided. Did he NOT have his OWN home and studio to work in? WHERE did he create all his OTHER art works? I just find that odd.

Plus what kind of contract did he sign that he couldn’t just walk out when Axe told him to do that portrait. They made a point for the artist to say he won’t do portraits only to have him do one when Axe demanded it.  Ridiculous. 

[dwmarch]

3 minutes ago, Lemons said:

Plus what kind of contract did he sign that he couldn’t just walk out when Axe told him to do that portrait. They made a point for the artist to say he won’t do portraits only to have him do one when Axe demanded it.  Ridiculous. 

The original contract did not include sex with Wendy either so that may be swaying Tanner's opinion on portraits.

I remember reading comments from the writers that this season was going to show us how far these people would go in terms of what they are willing to lose in order to achieve their wins. Axe has got to be kicking himself something fierce. He wants a Tanner painting but Prince beats him to it. Okay fine, he'll hire Tanner and get eight paintings out of him. Take that Prince! But oops, now Tanner and Wendy are a couple. If he'd let Prince have Tanner all to himself, Tanner might be having sex with the woman of Prince's dreams. Once Axe has his eight paintings is he even going to want to look at them?

[Lemons]

3 hours ago, dwmarch said:

The original contract did not include sex with Wendy either so that may be swaying Tanner's opinion on portraits.

I remember reading comments from the writers that this season was going to show us how far these people would go in terms of what they are willing to lose in order to achieve their wins. Axe has got to be kicking himself something fierce. He wants a Tanner painting but Prince beats him to it. Okay fine, he'll hire Tanner and get eight paintings out of him. Take that Prince! But oops, now Tanner and Wendy are a couple. If he'd let Prince have Tanner all to himself, Tanner might be having sex with the woman of Prince's dreams. Once Axe has his eight paintings is he even going to want to look at them?

I’m really not seeing Axe and Chuck as equals though.  Axe’s original painting scheme was illegal and Axe cheated the government out of tens of millions in taxes.  There’s not much grosser in terms of white crime than someone with $10 billion being a tax cheat.  I side with the AG office in going after him with whatever it takes until something sticks.  In the meantime Axe has destroyed lives and anything else in his way to accumulate more weather.  Chuck is obsessed, not unlike a detective who goes after a slippery murder suspect.