S05.E08: Bagman

[Bannon]

It just occurred to me that the conversation between Mike and Jimmy, where Mike castigated Jimmy for pulling Kim in, and talked about why he was in the game, may forshadow Kim's exit. Will Jimmy take that talk to heart, the way Howard took Jimmy's pep talk tough love about running the law firm to heart? Will Jimmy know that Kim's forever in mortal danger now in Albuquerque? Will Kim know,  while realizing she hates being a standard issue partner at a large law firm anyways? Will Jimmy grasp that the only cartel member who knows about Kim yet is Lalo? And that Mike wants Lalo dead, as long as killing him is done correctly? Will Jimmy love Kim enough to try to get her to leave to a distant state, to do the legal work she's committed to, while Lalo's knowledge of Kim is forever limited? Perhaps with Jimmy working a scam to give Kim a big chunk of money? Would not Kim be insulted by that?

The writers have nicely set the stage for the end of this story.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Bannon

[ahmerali]

12 hours ago, gallimaufry said:

One logistical question... why on earth would the court want $7 million to be delivered in cash anyway?  Surely if someone is raising bail for a murderer and arsonist, you'd want to be able to trace where the money came from.  What's the benefit to the court of a cash transaction?

Often the court will give bail as "cash or bond" - bond being a fraction of the actual bail, arranged through a bail bondsman who takes their chances of how much of a flight risk the person is. The idea is that someone is unlikely to flee forfeiting 7 million, although in the case of a murder, 700 thousand might be worth walking away from.

10 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Did Mike take the license plate off the Esteem?  What was the point, there is still a VIN number. 

 

 

Trying to make it look like a crash I guess.

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

If Lalo's bail is 7 million doesn't that mean they only have to put down $700K? That's always been my understanding.

That's only if the judge allows you to post a bond. In this case the judge demands cash.

[Pike Ludwell]

I think Kim realized, while talking to Lalo, she'd made a huge mistake in going to him. I could see it in her eyes. Going to him was a gamble, and she knows she lost. She will certainly realize that it's a new, dangerous ballgame now and she may have to disappear from Albuquerque.

[ahmerali]

9 hours ago, tiredofwork said:

I don't think this is a spoiler, just my speculation...

Seems like Gus's plan is to kill Lalo when Lalo jumps bail down to Mexico.  He plans to make it appear Lalo's enemies will kill him.  So Gus must have had prior knowledge that Lalo's enemy would get word on the 7 mil cash and try to rob it.  Hence he sent Mike down to keep an eye on the transport by Saul.  When that robbery was attempted, Mike took the rivals out..

So I am thinking that the stage is set for Gus's plan that Lalo's eventual killing will appear to be revenge of that rival gang.

My question is how will Saul explain all this to Lalo?  He is going to have to explain the delay and what caused him to be stranded and Lalo would have to get word that a bunch of bodies, vehicles were found at the drop site, Lalo is going to want to know who was shooting to protect Saul?

Saul doesn't have to explain anything to Lalo. He won't be told anything other than Nacho will get Lalo out of the country.

Once Lalo's bail is posted, he will high-tail it to Mexico as soon as possible. Since Episode 10 says Nacho 'gets closer to the cartel than he would like', I predict Lalo gets Nacho to take him there. Fring and Mike will know this, and use it to their advantage to set Lalo up for his death.

Perfectly sets up the Breaking Bad scene...when Jimmy is taken out to the desert, he of course has heard in the news that Lalo was killed. He will figure that Nacho did it, or was involved, since Nacho took him to Mexico. That explains everything Jimmy says and does at that point in BB. Nacho will likely never interact with Saul again in this series.

 

[Bannon]

2 minutes ago, Pike Ludwell said:

I think Kim realized, while talking to Lalo, she'd made a huge mistake in going to him. I could see it in her eyes. Going to him was a gamble, and she knows she lost. She will certainly realize that it's a new, dangerous ballgame now and she may have to disappear from Albuquerque.

Seehorn just killed that scene. Marvelous stuff.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Bannon

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, ahmerali said:

Saul doesn't have to explain anything to Lalo. He won't be told anything other than Nacho will get Lalo out of the country.

Once Lalo's bail is posted, he will high-tail it to Mexico as soon as possible. Since Episode 10 says Nacho 'gets closer to the cartel than he would like', I predict Lalo gets Nacho to take him there. Fring and Mike will know this, and use it to their advantage to set Lalo up for his death.

Perfectly sets up the Breaking Bad scene...when Jimmy is taken out to the desert, he of course has heard in the news that Lalo was killed. He will figure that Nacho did it, or was involved, since Nacho took him to Mexico. That explains everything Jimmy says and does at that point in BB. Nacho will likely never interact with Saul again in this series.

 

Ah, yes, Nacho may lose his life in the process of Gus and Mike ridding themselves of Lalo. Hope Mike can prevail on Gus to leave Nacho's dad alone.

[Gudzilla]

 

4 hours ago, scenario said:

He's got the high ground.

Obi Wan approves !

[ahmerali]

6 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

I also found Lalo's demeanor somewhat odd.  First, his willingness to let Jimmy walk away with the details about the pick-up spot written down, and then his nonchalance at the news that both Jimmy and the money were missing.  I don't know if that means anything beyond an acting choice.  But Jimmy went the extra mile to carry out his task for Lalo, and in the end he will believe Lalo wants him dead.  I cannot begin to speculate how that will come to pass. 

 

 

I really think as I said earlier that Lalo figures that if Jimmy is unsuccessful, he'll just find some other mule to bring the 7 million. Just a matter of time. To Lalo, people who are not family are expendable. He's the Cersei Lannister of this show.

[ShadowFacts]

15 minutes ago, Pike Ludwell said:

I think Kim realized, while talking to Lalo, she'd made a huge mistake in going to him. I could see it in her eyes. Going to him was a gamble, and she knows she lost. She will certainly realize that it's a new, dangerous ballgame now and she may have to disappear from Albuquerque.

It was somewhat the same with Jimmy listening to Mike's disbelief about Kim. It was like it never occurred to him.  Both Kim and Jimmy were uncharacteristically un-savvy.  It was set up for Jimmy in his pre-wedding promises to be forthcoming to Kim, and I guess we're supposed to think Kim loves Jimmy so much she thinks she can just ask a murderous cartel defendant for answers and get them.  They were both a far cry from Giselle and Victor.

[PeterPirate]

2 hours ago, scenario said:

Shooting people with no body armor standing out in the open by a trained sniper with the right equipment isn't that difficult. By sniper standards he wasn't that far away. He was in his car and drove to the scene within a minute of when the shooting stopped. He wasn't shooting from a mile away. 

It was less than 2 seconds between the time the blood hit Saul's shirt and the sound of the rifle shot.  Factoring in the difference between the speed of a high-powered rifle bullet (say, 3000 fps) and the speed of sound, Mike would have been no more than 3000 feet away.  

 

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

What did Lalo say in Spanish when he realized Kim is Saul's wife? I missed it.

"Una guera.  Bien por él." 

According to the Urban Dictionary, Guera is "Mexican-Spanish slang for a white girl or light-haired girl."  

[chick binewski]

2 hours ago, ruby24 said:

What did Lalo say in Spanish when he realized Kim is Saul's wife? I missed it.

I believe it was 'A blonde? Good for him."

But I got straight Cs in French so don't take my word.

[ahmerali]

10 hours ago, NoReally said:

One question I had:

When Mike and Saul had been walking in the desert for quite a while -- sunburned, tired, out of water -- why, when Saul decoyed the remaining bad guy didn't Mike wait for the guy to stop his truck and get out before shooting?

That way, he could've both had an easier shot and avoided getting the truck wrecked, so he and Saul would've had transportation.

The guy would have run Saul over. Why in the world would he get out of his truck before he did that and made sure Saul were dead?

In the long game Mike is participating in, Saul has to be the one to deliver the bail money. Dead Saul means that Mike would have to deliver it (blows the whole charade), or get someone to do it (not likely - who would you trust to deliver 7 million?).

[ahmerali]

7 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

I also found Lalo's demeanor somewhat odd.  First, his willingness to let Jimmy walk away with the details about the pick-up spot written down, and then his nonchalance at the news that both Jimmy and the money were missing.  I don't know if that means anything beyond an acting choice.  But Jimmy went the extra mile to carry out his task for Lalo, and in the end he will believe Lalo wants him dead.  I cannot begin to speculate how that will come to pass.  

 

 

 

It's simple...Lalo will 'thank' Jimmy by giving him the 100K he promised. Lalo will just tell Jimmy that Nacho will take care of the rest, and of course the gist of the conversation will be that Jimmy should just keep his mouth shut about anything to do with Lalo, in case he didn't already realize that.

At some point, Lalo will be dead thanks to Mike and Fring. Jimmy will find out, but of course there will be no details forthcoming. So Jimmy will have to live with the thought that maybe, just maybe, one day this might come back to bite him, and that's the first thing he thinks of when he's out in the desert with Walt and Jesse.

[Bryce Lynch]

7 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Yeah, it seemed like the driver was going to run Jimmy down, but that would have been a really dumb idea.  Those bags containing the money could have been torn to shreds in the process, or Jimmy could have bled all over the bags of money.

But, it Jimmy put his hands up the driver probably would have stopped the car and gotten out to shoot him.  Why risk damaging his vehicle and getting stranded or tearing open the the money bags and having the $7 million blow all over the.desert?

 

 

[shapeshifter]

I hung onto every word of Mike's "what for?" speech as it felt like he could have known me and my life-long/long-life motivations (doing it all for my kids).

 

I was gleefully laughing as Jimmy sang (more or less):
   ♪ ♫ ♬  $70 million dollars of cash in the car, $70 million dollars of cash, take one down, pass it around...♪ ♫ ♬ 
but then: Ruh Roh!

 

After reading all of the above (I was schooled at TWoP) it occurred to me that Lalo's real reason for not wanting to have Nacho get the money was that Nacho was not expendable --yet.

 

Like many others, I kept thinking: Doesn't all that cash need laundering? But maybe it already was??

 

Things I expected that didn't happen:

• Jimmy's old beater car would break down before he even got to the drop point
• Jimmy and Mike would drive off in one of the dead guys cars (even though we clearly saw the tires getting shot out), but that would've been cliché
• right after Jimmy drank the Davis & Maine urine that Mike would walk up with a water bottle from the flipped truck
• the dragged money bag to rip open entirely

 

 

19 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

when Mike said, “The alternator is shot...literally.” I said to the TV “literally” the exact same time he did.

As did I ✋

 

 

 

12 hours ago, Xena said:

Ok, I was pretty stoned watching last night, but didn't Mike take the gas cap out of the Esteem?  I just figured that's how the robber gang knew the drop spot - someone had bugged the gas cap before Saul left town.

4 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Re the gas cap, I figured it was Mike who used it to track Saul, but wasn't it Victor who we saw use it before? I can't quite remember.

@Xena, I totally missed that! But the gas cap is one of Mike's signature moves, so that would be how he not only followed Saul but got in the right position --especially since there was extra time for him to scope it out.

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by shapeshifter

[Bryce Lynch]

12 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Did Mike take the license plate off the Esteem?  What was the point, there is still a VIN number. 

 

If he was in Vietnam he is closer to 70 than in his 50s.  Which is what he looks like and moves like. 

The episode takes place in 2004, according to the Fandom timeline.  The Vietnam War ended on 1975. So, theoretically, Mike could be as young as 47 in this episode, if he served in Vietnam in 1975 at age 18. 

When he bought the M40 from Lawson, he alluded to using one with a wooden stock that warped in the jungle humidity.  They started replacing the wooden stocks with fiberglass in the early 70s, so that probably moves Mike's service back at a least a few years.

But, it is still totally realistic that Mike could be in his early to mid 50s in this episode, though not that Jonathan Banks could be.

 

[Bannon]

To add detail, this is an article about a Vietnam era Marine sniper, who, is one engagement, had 16 consecutive successful head shots , in about 30 seconds, at night. That was against NVA regulars, which was a famously disciplined military organization. A small group of unprepared drug runner gun yokels, against someone similarly skilled, even in his 50s, would have no chance.

https://www.businessinsider.com/one-of-the-most-lethal-vietnam-marine-snipers-fired-16-headshots-in-30-seconds-in-pitch-darkness-2016-2

[ShadowFacts]

20 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

The episode takes place in 2004, according to the Fandom timeline.  The Vietnam War ended on 1975. So, theoretically, Mike could be as young as 47 in this episode, if he served in Vietnam in 1975 at age 18. 

When he bought the M40 from Lawson, he alluded to using one with a wooden stock that warped in the jungle humidity.  They started replacing the wooden stocks with fiberglass in the early 70s, so that probably moves Mike's service back at a least a few years.

But, it is still totally realistic that Mike could be in his early to mid 50s in this episode, though not that Jonathan Banks could be.

 

Yes, I acknowledged my faulty timeline calculations.  I am now a convert to Jonathan Ray Banks, 73, being a credible Vietnam vet/police retiree in his 50s in the BCS/BB-verse.  He just has that grizzled, grandfatherly way about him.

[sistermagpie]

31 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Yes, I acknowledged my faulty timeline calculations.  I am now a convert to Jonathan Ray Banks, 73, being a credible Vietnam vet/police retiree in his 50s in the BCS/BB-verse.  He just has that grizzled, grandfatherly way about him.

Somehow it seems appropriate for me to point out that Jonathan Banks was in Coming Home,and he looked really young then, so yeah, it works. 🙂

[ahmerali]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

After reading all of the above (I was schooled at TWoP) it occurred to me that Lalo's real reason for not wanting to have Nacho get the money was that Nacho was not expendable --yet.

 

 

The way it sounded to me is that if Nacho had the opportunity to take possession of 7 million dollars, he has the smarts and wherewithal to completely disappear with it. Think about it. He would have chartered a dude with a helicopter or something to pick up his dad, get him out of there and take them directly to the nearest airport, and thence to South America. They would be capital-G gone.

Lalo realizes that Jimmy is smart, but doesn't have the means or will to pull something like that off.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Bannon said:

To add detail, this is an article about a Vietnam era Marine sniper, who, is one engagement, had 16 consecutive successful head shots , in about 30 seconds, at night. That was against NVA regulars, which was a famously disciplined military organization. A small group of unprepared drug runner gun yokels, against someone similarly skilled, even in his 50s, would have no chance.

https://www.businessinsider.com/one-of-the-most-lethal-vietnam-marine-snipers-fired-16-headshots-in-30-seconds-in-pitch-darkness-2016-2

See also, and, Wow:  wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Mawhinney

[MaryPatShelby]

9 hours ago, Adiba said:

I'm going to be that person and say I wasn't thrilled with the drawn-out trek through the desert scenes.  Yes, I know that it was necessary to the story, but for me, it went on a bit too long.

Me too.  Unpopular opinion, but eventually I was bored.  

[Skyfall]

21 hours ago, ahmerali said:

Mike would lack the ability to walk with a sense of direction? Unlikely.

The brief notes for each episode indicate that Kim is still around.

Well, somewhat logical. It doesn't make sense for Saul to carry the guns, as he wouldn't know what to do with them in a pinch.

She thinks its 7 million of drug money, that would be the logical conclusion for Lalo's motive.

End of this meaning by the end of BCS.

[Mean Machine]

Wonder if Jimmy drinking his own urine was some kind of nod to Kevin Costner doing the same thing in Waterworld.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, MaryPatShelby said:

13 hours ago, Adiba said:

I'm going to be that person and say I wasn't thrilled with the drawn-out trek through the desert scenes.  Yes, I know that it was necessary to the story, but for me, it went on a bit too long.

Me too.  Unpopular opinion, but eventually I was bored.  

I loved the "Fly" episode of Breaking Bad; I'm guessing y'all didn't. 
Just for fun, which did you prefer hate least: "Bagman" or "Fly"?

[ByTor]

10 hours ago, MaryPatShelby said:

19 hours ago, Adiba said:

I'm going to be that person and say I wasn't thrilled with the drawn-out trek through the desert scenes.  Yes, I know that it was necessary to the story, but for me, it went on a bit too long.

Me too.  Unpopular opinion, but eventually I was bored.  

I even said "Wow this is boring" out loud.  I thought this by far was the worst BCS episode this season.

[Pike Ludwell]

I wonder if Saul might work a "fugue state" somehow into his explanation to Lalo?

[Bannon]

8 hours ago, Mean Machine said:

Wonder if Jimmy drinking his own urine was some kind of nod to Kevin Costner doing the same thing in Waterworld.

Possible, but it frequently is a last stage attempt to fend off death by exposure in the desert. It will buy a little more time, but the urine is toxic, so the emphasis is on "little". I think that awful movie had Costner filtering his urine.

[Lone Wolf]

On 4/6/2020 at 7:39 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I missed any homages or callbacks to famous desert scenes in movie history.  

The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly comes to mind.  Right down to Saul's burnt and cracked lips  when he was laying on ground saying, "I'm done!".

I agree with those who say that Mike was a trained sniper - the way he breathed and settled himself before taking the shots suggested that, and I can buy that he continued to practice to keep his skills sharp.

It had occurred to me early on that maybe Kim was in Saul's life during BB, just never on screen or referred to.  Now I'm decidedly more pessimistic.

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Lone Wolf

[Adiba]

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I loved the "Fly" episode of Breaking Bad; I'm guessing y'all didn't. 
Just for fun, which did you prefer hate least: "Bagman" or "Fly"?

Hmmm, I have to say, both did have some interesting parts--in  "Fly" the relationship between Walt and Jesse was highlighted and in "Bagman" the plot was slightly advanced and Kim's situation was further cemented, imo. However, in both cases, the fast-forward button was my friend.

[ByTor]

24 minutes ago, Bannon said:

9 hours ago, Mean Machine said:

Wonder if Jimmy drinking his own urine was some kind of nod to Kevin Costner doing the same thing in Waterworld.

Possible, but it frequently is a last stage attempt to fend off death by exposure in the desert. It will buy a little more time, but the urine is toxic, so the emphasis is on "little". I think that awful movie had Costner filtering his urine.

The only thing that urine scene reminded me of was Stephen King, he's had a few "had to drink his/her own urine to survive" paragraphs.

[Chick Chandler]

I think this episode jumped the shark at several places. Bad writing, Vince.

[PeterPirate]

Plotwise, this episode was slow.  But it does have its moments.  I already think it is one of those episodes that one can turn on and have playing ("in the background", someone said upthread) while doing other things, and then pay attention to during the moments of interesting dialogue.  Rebecca falls into that category for me.  

One reviewer pointed out that the space blanket flying away at the end represents the end of Chuck's hold over Jimmy.  I think that's true.  I also think Jimmy is now "full Saul", whatever that means.  Jimmy already showed in Wexler v. Goodman that he is willing to break out the Saul if it is necessary to protect his woman, and in this episode he drank piss in order to get back to her.  Kim can stay in Jimmy's life and he can still be Saul Goodman.   

Obviously, I want this to happen.  The Pony Tail must win.  The Pony Tail must always win.  Maybe if we all send spoons to AMC they will make sure that happens.  

Edited April 8, 2020 by PeterPirate
Change "you" to "one". And "McGill" to "Goodman".

[Ohwell]

If Saul had really wanted to protect his woman he wouldn't have become a cartel lawyer in the first place.  He certainly wouldn't have gone out in the desert against her wishes.   Anybody with sense would know that being part of a cartel (which he is now) means that not only are you in danger, your family is as well. 

I'm not absolving Kim either.  I get that she loves him but she should have realized the danger she was in when she married the cartel lawyer. 

[Eulipian 5k]

On 4/6/2020 at 10:39 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I missed any homages or callbacks to famous desert scenes in movie history.  

Fittingly, this is the BCS version of the Soprano's Pine Barrens. Pauli and Christofah hilariously trudge through the Pine Barrens.(Episode no. Season 3. Episode 11. Directed by, Steve Buscemi.), transposed from winter to the blazing NM sun.

[Scaeva]

17 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

It was less than 2 seconds between the time the blood hit Saul's shirt and the sound of the rifle shot.  Factoring in the difference between the speed of a high-powered rifle bullet (say, 3000 fps) and the speed of sound, Mike would have been no more than 3000 feet away.  

 

After all the goons but one were dispatched Mike also arrives on the scene on foot with very little delay. Once they're down he appears walking among the dead and wounded,, reinforcing that he was shooting at them from relatively close range.

Marine marksmanship training & qualification begins at 200 yards and goes all the way up to 500 yards. And that's for every Marine, not just snipers who are an vastly more skilled with a weapon than the average. Failing to qualify means an exit from the service. Given the speed at which Mike arrives at the scene it is far more likely he was no more than 100 yards away, or half the distance of the first stage of "basic" Marine rifle qualification.  

Essentially it would be relatively easy for any Marine to dispatch targets at those ranges, and assuming Mike is a former sniper (was that said before?) probably didn't even register as even a slight challenge. 

Where disbelief has to be suspended is Mike being lucky enough to be in that position at the right time while remaining unnoticed, with no forewarning of where & when Saul was going to be robbed & murdered. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Scaeva

[Eulipian 5k]

17 hours ago, Pike Ludwell said:

I think Kim realized, while talking to Lalo, she'd made a huge mistake in going to him. I could see it in her eyes.

WWSD? Would BB's Skyler have gone to Gus Fring in such a situation? She did almost everything to find Walt during his fugue state, but IIRC, I don't think she ever met Fring. Mike is right, once Skyler knew Walt's business, she was immediately "all in".

[ByTor]

14 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Fittingly, this is the BCS version of the Soprano's Pine Barrens. Pauli and Christofah hilariously trudge through the Pine Barrens.(Episode no. Season 3. Episode 11. Directed by, Steve Buscemi.), transposed from winter to the blazing NM sun.

That explains it then, I hated Pine Barrens too 🙂 

[ahmerali]

I think everyone needs to relax a bit. It's a breather episode in a sense, to set up the last two hours. And I predict those will more than make up for any 'deficiencies'.

[shapeshifter]

13 minutes ago, Scaeva said:

Where disbelief has to be suspended is Mike being lucky enough to be in that position at the right time while remaining unnoticed, with no forewarning of where & when Saul was going to be robbed & murdered. 

That's where the gas cap tracker comes into play. And, the delay in the twins arrival didn't hurt either.

[Eulipian 5k]

4 minutes ago, ByTor said:

That explains it then, I hated Pine Barrens too 🙂 

Sacrilege!

[ahmerali]

9 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

WWSD? Would BB's Skyler have gone to Gus Fring in such a situation? She did almost everything to find Walt during his fugue state, but IIRC, I don't think she ever met Fring. Mike is right, once Skyler knew Walt's business, she was immediately "all in".

The fugue state happened well before Fring came in the picture - that happened when Walt and Jesse had the showdown with Tuco. Skyler would have no idea who to go to.

[Bannon]

Hey, I'll never tell somebody they should like what they don't, or dislike what they do. I thought it was terrific. Several scenes were character revealing, and I suspect Saul's near death in the desert, first quickly by firearm, next agonizingly slowly by desert, in combination with his talking to from Mike, about motivation and rationalization, is going to shape his future behavior with regard to Kim. The shoot out was staged and directed in a far superior way than is typical of action scenes on t.v. and movies. To each their own!

[shapeshifter]

7 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Hey, I'll never tell somebody they should like what they don't, or dislike what they do. I thought it was terrific. . . .To each their own!

As did I.
So do we (@shapeshifter and @Bannon) both like reading Jane Austen too, or not so much?
But surely you liked "Fly," right, @Bannon?

[Bannon]

46 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

As did I.
So do we (@shapeshifter and @Bannon) both like reading Jane Austen too, or not so much?
But surely you liked "Fly," right, @Bannon?

I thought "Fly" was extremely well written and acted. Walt was such an annoying A-hole sometimes, however, that he could be hard to watch. The thing is,  I'm pretty sure that the writers wanted him to be hard to watch sometimes. I love that Gilligan and Co. are willing to take chances like that.

[Bannon]

1 minute ago, Bannon said:

I thought "Fly" was extremely well written and acted. Walt was such an annoying A-hole sometimes, however, that he could be hard to watch. The thing is,  I'm pretty sure that the writers wanted him to be hard to watch sometimes. I love that Gilligan and Co. are willing to take chances like that.

And I do like Jane Austen, although her plotting can be a bit clunky at times.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

One reviewer pointed out that the space blanket flying away at the end represents the end of Chuck's hold over Jimmy.  I think that's true.  I also think Jimmy is now "full Saul", whatever that means.  Jimmy already showed in Wexler v. McGill that he is willing to break out the Saul if it is necessary to protect his woman, and in this episode he drank piss in order to get back to her.  

Interesting take.  I don't think Chuck will ever be gone from Jimmy.  I think it is partly his own swagger and impulsivity that lets him be a friend of the cartel, which we know continues, and partly self-destructive guilt/grief.  His first judgment was right, going into a remote area to meet up with some Salamancas in his sub-optimal ride was stupidly dangerous, but then the id hijacks him.  He proves Chuck right every time he makes a reckless decision.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

The firefight.

Mike ended up perched up the bluff from where the bad guys approached from in front of Saul.  It was impossible for him to have been trailing Saul.  He was, basically, behind and to the left of Saul as Saul assumed the position immediately prior to the first shot taken.  The second kill made perfect sense from this same spot.  No worries as to the shootings, themselves.  That he knew this would be the spot, out of 30(?) miles of off-road that the boys would make their move?  If he guessed wrong, he would never have had the chance to surprise them from in front, as he did here.

Now it gets dicey.  The leader stupidly decided to grab the cash, thus putting himself in Mike's field of fire and got drilled.  No worries.  Made sense physically.  But, would he have been that stupid?! 

Now comes the last two kills.  Mike had to substantially change his angle and elevation to get to those two because they were ensconced behind vehicles.  No way did enough time transpire for Mike to attain his new position prior to taking out the next guy with a shot through glass.  And man, what a freaking shot!  The last remaining kill involved more movement by Mike and it went through a fender and such.  Again, too little time involved.  And an alltime shot.

Then we had Mike get in his car and approach the scene from the absolute opposite direction from which he had shot them all.  This would have taken a very long time and made no sense.  That last perp, who ended up pursuing Mike and Saul, would have had plenty of time to make his getaway, and to shoot Saul just for fun.  

So, yes.  Mike was a kickass sniper.  Several of the kills made good and perfect sense.  But, it was just too much altogether to not beg a healthy dose of disbelief suspension.   G/G have been so very meticulous, so very much of the time.  The slightest movement or nod or whatever has held great meaning.  It's (they're) awesome in this.  This firefight simply does not fit or jibe with the vast bulk of this marvelous series.  YMMV.

   

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

But, it was just too much altogether to not beg a healthy dose of disbelief suspension.

For me, the key word in your post is "healthy," as in yes, it was a little OTT, superhero shooting by Mike, but it only required a "healthy dose of disbelief suspension," in comparison to most shows, that could arguably cause the viewers to eventually start accepting total BS in real life, if you believe that media can influence the viewers' psyche.

So the fantastical shooting by Mike in this episode is more of a parody of old Westerns and modern cop shows.

Edited April 8, 2020 by shapeshifter

[scenario]

1 hour ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The firefight.

Mike ended up perched up the bluff from where the bad guys approached from in front of Saul.  It was impossible for him to have been trailing Saul.  He was, basically, behind and to the left of Saul as Saul assumed the position immediately prior to the first shot taken.  The second kill made perfect sense from this same spot.  No worries as to the shootings, themselves.  That he knew this would be the spot, out of 30(?) miles of off-road that the boys would make their move?  If he guessed wrong, he would never have had the chance to surprise them from in front, as he did here.

Now it gets dicey.  The leader stupidly decided to grab the cash, thus putting himself in Mike's field of fire and got drilled.  No worries.  Made sense physically.  But, would he have been that stupid?! 

Now comes the last two kills.  Mike had to substantially change his angle and elevation to get to those two because they were ensconced behind vehicles.  No way did enough time transpire for Mike to attain his new position prior to taking out the next guy with a shot through glass.  And man, what a freaking shot!  The last remaining kill involved more movement by Mike and it went through a fender and such.  Again, too little time involved.  And an alltime shot.

Then we had Mike get in his car and approach the scene from the absolute opposite direction from which he had shot them all.  This would have taken a very long time and made no sense.  That last perp, who ended up pursuing Mike and Saul, would have had plenty of time to make his getaway, and to shoot Saul just for fun.  

So, yes.  Mike was a kickass sniper.  Several of the kills made good and perfect sense.  But, it was just too much altogether to not beg a healthy dose of disbelief suspension.   G/G have been so very meticulous, so very much of the time.  The slightest movement or nod or whatever has held great meaning.  It's (they're) awesome in this.  This firefight simply does not fit or jibe with the vast bulk of this marvelous series.  YMMV.

   

Let's assume that everyone knew that Saul was going down a dead end road and was going to have to come back this way. Mike was there in case Saul was ambushed. He looked for the first good spot for an ambush along the dirt road. If I'm remembering right the ambush happened on a hairpin turn in an area with a lot of cover. Someone coming from the other direction can't see the cars waiting. 

 Saul drives by. A little while later Mike comes along, sees the perfect spot, hides his car and gets into position. The bad guys and the cousins drive by with the cousins hiding their vehicles so they can't be seen. Mike moves into perfect position while waiting for Saul. Mike wasn't in the right place by luck. He was in the right place because it was the ideal spot for an ambush. 

I agree that the timeline doesn't match up but that's pretty much true in all episodes. If this was filmed in real time there would have been a bunch of shooting, then a ten minute pause where nothing happened then another person shot then another pause....

What should have taken a half hour was time compressed for entertainment reasons. It's the same reason we didn't have a 3 hour scene of Saul driving to to the well and waiting around. 

It's the same thing as DNA results coming back in a few minutes. Trial shows that would take months in real time take an hour on TV. The shots as shown were realistic but sped up which is different than having inventing a scientific gadget that magically does something in 5 minutes that takes a month in the real world. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by scenario