Tournament Of Champions - General Discussion

[Harry24]

On 4/3/2023 at 8:04 AM, dleighg said:

Seriously, he needs a new hairstyle. That is NOT flattering at all, and it gets more unflattering as he ages.

Speaking of hair styles, I rejoiced that Ming Tsai had a new do in his appearance. He looked smoking again.

[Ohmo]

On 4/3/2023 at 9:54 AM, JTMacc99 said:

have no problem with not doing the complete re-spin. This isn't chopped, where a big part of the competition is "You have  banana pudding, pigs knuckles, sarsaparilla, and Ritz crackers... GO!" 

To use a sports analogy, the reality is that superstars get calls: Tom Brady and Peyton Manning got calls that a rookie NFL player would not get.  Ditto LeBron.  They paid their dues and they get calls.  Even sports columnists know this to be true.  Jet is the Peyton or Tom of TOC.  He has the standing to petition like he did.  He's earned the chops to do that. Jet essentially petitioned the ref for a call.

I have absolutely no problem with it.  TOC is just a different kind of competition.  If you don't think LeBron, Tom, or Peyton ever did what Jet did, you've never seen them play.

[Ohmo]

The spoilers are back!

I know the winner of TOC IV.  It is...
 

Spoiler

Mei Lin.  She beat Maneet in the finals 91 to 89.

In the semis, Maneet beat Britt, and Mei beat Jet.

In his trailer during judging, Jet sad, "I wonder if it's time for the old man to retire?"  No Jet, it is not time.  No retirement from TOC for you. No.

After he lost, Jet said he had mixed feelings.  He was teary as he said that he was Mei 10-15 years ago and how important it was for representation that younger chefs who look like him keep coming up behind him.  He was sad but proud, like the culinary statesman he is.

Mei talked about how her parents advised her not to be a chef.  I think the win meant a great deal to her.

Maneet and Mei had to break down a side of lamb in the finals.  They also had to do a hot dish and a cold dish.  That was 12 plates. There were five judges +2 for the camera, I guess. They had 60 minutes.

Judges: Nancy, Ming, Lorena, Cat, and Daniel Balud (which flipped EVERYONE out)!  Maneet said he was her commencement speaker when she graduated from culinary school.

Britt and Maneet had 50 minutes (Randomizer gave them an extra 5 minutes.)  They had a big fat grey fish.  I'm totally blanking on the name.  Sorry.  Was not an everyday common fish, though.

Jet and Mei had partridge.

Mei made a sunflower risotto with her partridge that everyone loved.  Cat wanted the recipe. Daniel Balud said he would charge lots and lots of money for her dish in the semiis.

I'm happy for Mei.  She's had a couple of 90s in the competition.  She earned that championship.

Guy specifically noted that he thought it was great that the TOC champion would once again be a female chef.  Maneet was quite gracious in defeat and welcomed Mei into the group of champions.

Saw Christa in the audience.

Justin had less gunk in his hair.

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Ohmo

[Ellee]

Thank you for doing this again.  I vote for @Ohmo to be MVP for the tournament along with @Bastet!

Happy Easter, everyone. 

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, Ellee said:

I vote for @Ohmo to be MVP for the tournament along with @Bastet!

Thank you, but I just filled in that one time.  I'm probably not going to have a chance to watch until tomorrow, never mind watching early on Discovery+, so I'm glad to have the usual spoilers back as I wouldn't have wanted to wait that long to find out who won the whole thing!

I'm very pleased with the result, but, honestly, would have been happy with any of them winning.  (That's not a spoiler, as I've never said who I was rooting for in the finals -- because, by the last time I'd posted here, I still hadn't decided who I was rooting for.)

[Ohmo]

4 hours ago, Ellee said:

Thank you for doing this again.  I vote for @Ohmo to be MVP for the tournament along with @Bastet!

Happy Easter, everyone. 

You're welcome Ellee.  I'm never met a spoiler I won't read.  Glad you enjoyed them. :)

[proserv]

Just finished watching and don't want to name the winner. Still, this competition, with its blind tasting, is the most representative of any such show. Good work to Fieri and his team. Looking forward to TOC V.

[Squee Bastard]

I got emotional at Chef Britt's response at seeing the panel of judges.

[FormerMod-a1]

What a finale!  I'm not big on lamb but I wanted to try all those dishes.

Also - Daniel Boulund!!

[Bastet]

I did wind up getting to watch tonight after all, and it was a great one.  I loved everyone's - including the other judges' - reactions to Daniel Boulud.  Maneet's a superstar in her own right, and she was practically hiding behind a pillow watching him eat her food in the semi-final round.  Britt must have had a completely surreal experience.

What incredible food in the final round -- I wanted to crawl through my TV and eat it all! Terrific to end with dishes scoring 89 and 91*.  And how fantastic, as Maneet said, to watch two minority women compete for the title.  Beautiful interaction between the two of them after the winner was announced.

*We didn't get to see how those scores broken down, did we?  I'm sure Mei scored higher than Maneet on presentation, but I wonder if that was the entire difference.  They seemed to do a pretty equal job with the randomizer requirement, and the dishes all sounded quite flavorful, but I wonder if Mei got one more point than Maneet there, especially because that ice cream was inventive and delicious and also a brilliant bridge between her hot and cold dishes.

I was rooting for Mei simply because Maneet had already won a belt; that was the only way to break the tie going on in my head and heart.  And now, having seen it, I'm truly thrilled for her.  I enjoyed her and her food on Top Chef, and was happy to watch her compete again -- and to see her consistently receive some of the highest scores.  I had hoped her parents would stop being so hard on her for her career choice after her TC victory, so maybe this ToC win will finally do it, but I sadly think she may just have to forever live with them seeing things their own way.  She's got Daniel Boulud saying he'd put her dish on his menu and charge plenty of money for it, so that's certainly something.

I loved Maneet's "Have you seen this?" and gesturing to the randomizer when Guy said they both looked so nervous.

They each got a side of lamb, and we saw them both butchering it, but there was one quick shot that showed a tray of loin chops we hadn't seen either cut (nor did we see either use, IIRC, although that might have been what Mei made her tartare from).  Plus, we didn't see either one frenching the bones of chops they did use.  I wondered if they had pre-cut chops to work with, and then the sides so they could also have any and all additional meat and bone they wanted, but there were so many comments about having to do all the butchering I guess it's simply a function of us not seeing every step of that.

Another great tournament!  I look forward to the next one.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Bastet

[MyMaui]

I'm sorry but Jet was robbed. No way he should have lost.  They wanted the older vs a newbie for a finale.  I checked out after he lost. Only bright spot in this one was the newbie Britt who beat so many.  Mei is over rated.  I disagree with this winner this time.  Loved the others.

[Bastet]

10 minutes ago, MyMaui said:

I'm sorry but Jet was robbed. No way he should have lost. 

With dry breast meat?  While hers was perfectly cooked and juicy?  Nah.  His dish looked better visually (I think Mei needed one more color), so I was not surprised he got one more point than her on presentation, but with the difference in the cook on the bird, overall she had the better dish (she scored higher than him on the randomizer in addition to flavor, IIRC).

I feel sorry for him; he's the winningest chef in the ToC, but he wants so very much to go to the finals and thus far can't make it past the final four.  But he didn't have the better dish, so once again he came up just short.  He lost on a dish he can be very proud of, at least.

Speaking of the semi-finals, in Maneet and Britt's round, I didn't even know what the protein or produce were until Guy showed and explained them.  Having no idea what that fish tastes like, it was a little difficult to imagine what the dishes would taste like, but they certainly looked flavorful.  The scores were as I expected -- Britt was right up there with her on flavor, but Maneet ran away with it on randomizer and presentation.  You cannot, in the semi-finals of ToC, call a rice bowl that's layered rather than mixed a deconstructed dish and win. 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Bastet

[Ohmo]

25 minutes ago, MyMaui said:

I'm sorry but Jet was robbed. No way he should have lost. 

I like jet, think he's a genuine person, and an outstanding chef, but I don't think he was robbed at all.

I like TOC and I watch a lot of competitive cooking shows, but I'm not a full-scale foodie.  The significance of Daniel as a judge  is lost on me.  Are we talking Taylor Swift status in the world of cooking?  People seemed to be falling all over themselves that he was there, including the other judges.

[MyMaui]

29 minutes ago, Bastet said:

With dry breast meat?  While hers was perfectly cooked and juicy?  Nah.  His dish looked better visually (I think Mei needed one more color), so I was not surprised he got one more point than her on presentation, but with the difference in the cook on the bird, overall she had the better dish (she scored higher than him on the randomizer in addition to flavor, IIRC).

I feel sorry for him; he's the winningest chef in the ToC, but he wants so very much to go to the finals and thus far can't make it past the final four.  But he didn't have the better dish, so once again he came up just short.  He lost on a dish he can be very proud of, at least.

Speaking of the semi-finals, in Maneet and Britt's round, I didn't even know what the protein or produce were until Guy showed and explained them.  Having no idea what that fish tastes like, it was a little difficult to imagine what the dishes would taste like, but they certainly looked flavorful.  The scores were as I expected -- Britt was right up there with her on flavor, but Maneet ran away with it on randomizer and presentation.  You cannot, in the semi-finals of ToC, call a rice bowl that's layered rather than mixed a deconstructed dish and win. 

Agree to disagree.  Jet was better.  You don't think so that is fine.  I did. Doesn't matter he didn't move forward

[MerBearHou]

2 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

The significance of Daniel as a judge  is lost on me.  Are we talking Taylor Swift status in the world of cooking?  People seemed to be falling all over themselves that he was there, including the other judges.

Daniel Boulud is super respected and beloved, and he’s just kind of “top drawer” in the chef world.  He has had a number of very acclaimed and successful restaurants.  I can see why they were all in disbelief he was there to taste and judge the FN TOC finale.  

[HappyDancex2]

I wanted Jet to win so bad!!!!!  He’s so cool and a bad ass but humble….his exit interview was so heartfelt.  What an amazing human being which is more important than being the winner.  His pheasant was over cooked though and it was a game of millimeters.  Both of their foods looked spectacular.

 

this season was so top notch.

[Bastet]

16 minutes ago, HappyDancex2 said:

His pheasant

Partridge.  Which I've never had.  Is anyone here familiar with it?

At least, unlike with the first semi-final match where I was wholly unfamiliar with both the protein and the produce, I am readily familiar with yuzu and could easier imagine an unfamiliar game bird flavor than a fish I know nothing about.  I don't think I'd have loved either dish, as I hate risotto and am not at all excited by rice, but their flavor profiles both sounded delicious and I'd have happily tried the food.

20 minutes ago, HappyDancex2 said:

his exit interview was so heartfelt.

Yeah, that was a truly lovely moment.  He's a good egg.

[Maverick]

 Congratulations on TOC.  We'll be seeing you on Guy's Grocery Games, which you are now required to appear on as a judge and contestant for life--or until Guy gets tired of you, whichever comes first.  

[bad things are bad]

Somebody must have told Guy to stop calling everyone "the one and only". 

[dewelar]

12 hours ago, Bastet said:

With dry breast meat?  While hers was perfectly cooked and juicy?

 

I believe at least a couple of the judges commented that Mei's was undercooked.

[dleighg]

14 hours ago, Bastet said:

You cannot, in the semi-finals of ToC, call a rice bowl that's layered rather than mixed a deconstructed dish and win. 

I agree that she did herself a disservice by piling them, but I think in actual terms of deconstruction, hers actually was (she should have spread things around the plate instead.) What Maneet did was a bunch of different dishes. What "constructed" dish was she "deconstructing"????? 

Why was Nancy Silverton wearing a black trash bag?

 

[Ohmo]

11 hours ago, Bastet said:

Partridge.  Which I've never had.  Is anyone here familiar with it?

I always thought partridge was a small bird, as in partridge in a pear tree (the 12 Days of Christmas).

Jet is terrific, and if you watched him as mentor on BBQ Brawl 3, he's quite good.  I'd imagine (hope) Michael Voltaggio has to be happy for Mei,  She used to work for him.

[meep.meep]

37 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

I always thought partridge was a small bird, as in partridge in a pear tree (the 12 Days of Christmas).

Technically partridges are medium-sized game birds.  Quail, in contrast, are small game birds.  I haven't eaten partridge but imagine they taste much like quail, pigeon, or pheasant - like gamey chicken.

And for once in my life, I predicted the winner last week.  

[mlp]

I wanted Jet to win sooooo bad and I was very worried after I saw the two finished dishes.  I figured Mai would beat him on presentation which might do him in if the scores were close otherwise.  The results went by so fast that I didn't see what actually happened.  My heart broke for Jet but he handled it like the good guy and gentleman he is.  I wonder if he'll compete again next year.

Ming Tsai and Daniel Boulud - both class acts.  Sigh.

 

[GaT]

22 hours ago, proserv said:

Still, this competition, with its blind tasting, is the most representative of any such show. 

Even though it's mostly blind tasting, I'm pretty sure they can guess most of the chefs. Maneet is probably the easiest, she doesn't go outside her comfort zone, there's always some Indian spice or food in her dishes.

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, dewelar said:

I believe at least a couple of the judges commented that Mei's was undercooked.

No, there was a remark about the meat by the bone being pink (which some people mistakenly believe means undercooked, but that is not automatically true; meat by the bone can be pink even at the appropriate internal temperature), but in the same sentence as calling it perfectly cooked.  I think that was Daniel.  If not him, Ming.

40 minutes ago, mlp said:

I figured Mai would beat him on presentation which might do him in if the scores were close otherwise.  The results went by so fast that I didn't see what actually happened.

He got one more point than her on presentation (which I expected, as his was more colorful), but she got more points than him on flavor and randomizer.  I do not remember the exact numbers on those.

[dleighg]

18 minutes ago, GaT said:

Maneet is probably the easiest, she doesn't go outside her comfort zone, there's always some Indian spice or food in her dishes

for exactly that reason, I was glad she didn't win (again). She's awfully predictable.

[Maverick]

Magnet is especially easy to guess.  As mentioned, she doesn't branch far outside of Indian cuisine and it's especially noticable on a night when the chef cooks twice. Also, Top Chef--er, mean Food Network --doesn't have a lot of Indian chefs in it's stable so it's either Magnet or Aarti, and although I like Aarti I don't think anyone is going to assume her in a final four blind tasting. 

[Bastet]

Nevermind; I think I had Alex vs. America (where the judges find out afterward who made what) on the brain.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Bastet

[Mondrianyone]

I was rooting for Maneet, partly because of that earring thing and partly because I sort of like a dynasty. Same reason I'm a Yankee fan.

I'm not that crazy in general about cooking as competitive sport, but I do think this tournament has been so important for one main reason: Women have won every year. So this should go a long way to demolish the persistent myth that women are pedestrian home cooks but men are the real chefs. When you can't see the gender, the better chef wins. If Guy never accomplishes anything else (and he's done an enormous amount of good in terms of charity), this is such a significant achievement. I hope he realizes the magnitude of it in the lives of women chefs.

And also stop with the dopey nicknames.

[dleighg]

6 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Do they usually have the same judges for the final as the semi-finals?  Because the blind judging has always been talked up as not just the judges not knowing who cooked what dish, but they don't even know who's competing.  If you just judged the two semi-final games, you certainly know who the two finalists are.

I had the same thought, though theoretically they don't necessarily know who (as in "the chef who cooks Indian food) won the semifinal, if they only know their OWN scores. But yeah, they probably know, especially since they know ALL the comments from the other judges, unlike the presumably edited remarks we see to keep the result hidden to some degree (though on this episode I wasn't the least surprised by any result). 

[Bastet]

1 minute ago, dleighg said:

I had the same thought, though theoretically they don't necessarily know who (as in "the chef who cooks Indian food) won the semifinal, if they only know their OWN scores.

Oh, jeez, I missed the even bigger point -- not only do they not know which dish won, just what scores they, individually, gave each dish, they certainly don't find out right afterward who made the winning dish.  Okay, completely never mind with what I said.

[DEL901]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Speaking of which ...

I can't recall -- Do they usually have the same judges for the final as the semi-finals?  Because the blind judging has always been talked up as not just the judges not knowing who cooked what dish, but they don't even know who's competing.  If you just judged the two semi-final games, you certainly know who the two finalists are.

But do they?   The judges are gone when Guy reads the results.   

My understanding is that they don’t even know who is part of the 32.   They can guess some, like Maneet when she cooks twice, but not be 100% sure.  
 

eta, not only do men not win, the don’t make the finals.  And in 4 seasons, there have been 16 semi finalists, of which only 4 have been men.  And of those 4, 3 were Jet.  

Edited April 10, 2023 by DEL901

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, Mondrianyone said:

If Guy never accomplishes anything else (and he's done an enormous amount of good in terms of charity), this is such a significant achievement. I hope he realizes the magnitude of it in the lives of women chefs.

When he mentioned it during this finale, it seemed to be a real point of pride for him.  (Which it should be; it's what makes this show fantastic viewing despite the annoying presence of him and his son.)

And I hope when these chefs judge other cooking competitions, they reflect on how different the results have consistently been on this blind judging show versus those where it's known who made the dishes, and check themselves for subconscious bias when evaluating the dishes prepared by female chefs (especially when women are up against male competitors).

Edited April 10, 2023 by Bastet

[roughing it]

35 minutes ago, Bastet said:

check themselves for subconscious bias when evaluating the dishes prepared by female chefs (especially when women are up against male competitors).

Like on Beat Bobby Flay, where Bobby wins, what, 70%* of the time.  Just his smirk as the judges are commenting, they know which dish is his.

*my guess only

[dleighg]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

And I hope when these chefs judge other cooking competitions, they reflect on how different the results have consistently been on this blind judging show versus those where it's known who made the dishes, and check themselves for subconscious bias w

am I wrong? I think women have won all four seasons? Brooke, Maneet, Tiffany, Mei?

[Bastet]

10 minutes ago, dleighg said:

am I wrong? I think women have won all four seasons? Brooke, Maneet, Tiffany, Mei?

Yes.  "These chefs" refers to those who've judged on ToC, and those who competed in ToC but also serve as judges of other competitions.  So, seeing that blind judging has led to women winning all four seasons thus far, when that is not the norm on cooking competitions, hopefully when they judge other competitions where they do know whose dishes they're eating, they'll check themselves for subconscious gender biases when evaluating them.

(Obviously everyone should be doing that.  And for racial biases as well.  I just hope that those who've personally been part of this show are particularly affected by what it reveals about the role of gender bias in cooking competitions and bear that in mind as they judge other competitions that don't employ blind judging.)

Edited April 11, 2023 by Bastet

[DEL901]

1 hour ago, roughing it said:

Like on Beat Bobby Flay, where Bobby wins, what, 70%* of the time.  Just his smirk as the judges are commenting, they know which dish is his.

*my guess only

I actually looked at the numbers on Wikipedia, and he won, back when I looked, around 68% of the time.   Great estimate!  And yeah, all the judges know which dish is his.  

[Stardancer Supreme]

15 hours ago, bad things are bad said:

Somebody must have told Guy to stop calling everyone "the one and only". 

 

I'm okay with the winner. I feel for Jet and wonder if he will come back for TOC 5?

Someone let Guy know not to call Shota "The Ninja" next year...

*hopping on my feminist soapbox*  I love that the winners of TOC have been women! 

[mlp]

Jet was live on FB today thanking everyone for the support.  He said he hasn't made any decisions about competing next time and asked for people's opinions.  I thought he was leaning toward "no" but might be swayed.  He has months to make up his mind so we shall see.

[buttersister]

I like Jet and thought for awhile he'd win. But the neediness of that FB action? Ew.

[mlp]

2 hours ago, buttersister said:

I like Jet and thought for awhile he'd win. But the neediness of that FB action? Ew.

Naw.  Jet has been doing live bits on FB for years.  He used to do them weekly but had to cut down.  It would have been odd for him to do one and not mention TOC.

[Yeah No]

I wanted Jet to win but I think the judging was fair so it is what it is.  I've had partridge but it was several years ago so I don't remember much about it other than it tastes a lot like any other poultry I've had including quail, squab, pheasant, capon and yes.....chicken.

Actually after the finale was over I realized I would have preferred Britt to win over Mei Lin just because I love an underdog and dark horse.  Also I'm pretty much lukewarm on Mei Lin in general.  A Britt win would have felt a little fantastic by comparison and I would have loved seeing the looks of disbelief on her face!

Daniel Boulud has been on Top Chef and so many other shows recently I wasn't that blown away to see him here but it was good to see him nonetheless.  I love how this show seems like just another "Guy" show but it also is respected with heavy hitters, which is great.  

I'm also loving the continued female wins on this show, disproving that old "the best chefs are men" garbage that was passed around most of my life because I knew better.  I used to get pissed seeing so many women get eliminated on cooking competitions and feel that there was some kind of unconscious bias going on.  If this doesn't prove that I don't know what would.

Oh well, that felt like a quick season, but it was a good one.

 

[Daisychain]

Sorry, I've been behind - out firm did a merger and we've been working.  Many thoughts.

1. Seriously, no matter what, Jet Tila is an exceptional chef, without whom and his family, none of us would have access to the best Thai take-out.  I do love him so I am bummed there.

2. I think the blind judging is proved by someone like Britt.  She's been on some competitions, but not most of them like Top Chef etc. However, the judges loved her food.  I do not think they needed to know who she was.

3.  I have read back in the prior episodes that people find Mei chilly.  Way back on Top Chef, IIRC, she had to do talking heads with Michael Voltaggio and it made people say things like "Mei, blink twice if you need to get out."  In other words there was a quite high pressure for her to succeed, which she did.  I don't think she was one of the many chefs whose parents would only love them if they won Top Chef, but correct me if I'm wrong.

4.  My ex-husband of decades was scarred because his mother never fully cooked proteins, including those that must be, like chicken and pork.  He always wanted every protein HAMMERED.  So our whole family went once (with 2 youngsters) to NY for a nice weekend including the Met and the Frick, near the original Daniel Bouloud.  We went to DB for a late lunch and I kind of said to my ex, don't say well-done.  And to his credit, when the waiter asked him, how well do you want your duck?  My ex said, "as well as the chef is comfortable."  WIN for the entire family.  My hubs loved the dish.  I very much doubt DB was cooking but it was such a nice way of respecting the customer and the customer respecting the cook.

 

 

[Bastet]

22 minutes ago, Daisychain said:

I don't think she was one of the many chefs whose parents would only love them if they won Top Chef, but correct me if I'm wrong.

She very much was; her parents' disapproval was a season-long storyline on TC, and even after winning that season Mei was still many years later in this ToC competition seeking their validation. 

They struggled so much as immigrant restaurant owners, hoping their kids would do something "better", so they seem to take any of Mei's inevitable hardships as a restaurateur as proof she shouldn't have pursued her passion, even though she's got skills they can't even dream of and has taken a just get by thinking into a successful career. 

[Daisychain]

Oooh, @Bastet.  I didn't remember that and that's a bummer.  There's even one of those folks on this year's World-All-Stars version of TC.  Jeebers Creebers parents, do better.  Your kid is currently being a better human than you.

[Daisychain]

@Bastet, did you ever listen to the Amelia Peabody mysteries by Elizabeth Peters?  About Egyptology in the post-Victorian era (I think)?  Very feminist, and The Cat Bastet was a major character.  We used to play the (then-books-on-tapes-then-CDs) and our kids would rebel if we tried to play something lame like Pillars of the Earth or Under the Tuscan Sun instead.  

 

[sugarbaker design]

8 hours ago, Daisychain said:

@Bastet, did you ever listen to the Amelia Peabody mysteries by Elizabeth Peters? 

I thought I was the only one that thought of Peabody whenever I saw Bastet.

[DEL901]

1 hour ago, sugarbaker design said:

I thought I was the only one that thought of Peabody whenever I saw Bastet.

Me three

[Bastet]

I've never read the books, but a friend of mine was really into them about 20 years ago, so I've heard a lot about them.