S01.E09: Tigers and Bears

[AgentRXS]

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After obscuring their true purpose in town from local police, Ralph and Yunis interview witnesses from the cave festival, while Holly and Andy visit the scene. Later, the group considers its next move as Claude deals with the weight of his role.

Original Air Date: March 1, 2020

[AimingforYoko]

I figured Andy would get it protecting Holly because she seems like the biggest threat. But it went for the vet first. Smart.

[kay1864]

I thought he got Claude?

[scottiB]

He got Alec. Should have listened to the pennies. 

[scrb]

Looks like it saved up a lot of action for the finale.

So they’re going up against a sniper and they’re not going to wait for backup.

And little boys are going to wander deep into deserted caves on their own.

What is appeal of caves?  Even if I couldn’t afford to visit anything else, spending time in caves wouldn’t be a priority.

Is it a big thing in this region, the reason the story is set in a semi-rural place?

But one of the kills happened in NYC?

[Cheezwiz]

I was a bit distracted at the very beginning and it actually took me about 2 thirds of the way through the episode to clue in to the fact that  the two boys getting lost in the cave was a flashback. I thought the writers were just throwing additional vulnerable people into the mix of the finale. I got all confused by the period cars and clothing of the people in the search party!

The conclusion appears to be adhering pretty closely to the book after all.

It appears the DA has a major case of the guilties after new evidence was presented to him.

 

[patty1h]

9 minutes ago, Cheezwiz said:

I was a bit distracted at the very beginning and it actually took me about 2 thirds of the way through the episode to clue in to the fact that  the two boys getting lost in the cave was a flashback. I thought the writers were just throwing additional vulnerable people into the mix of the finale. I got all confused by the period cars and clothing of the people in the search party!

Don't feel bad, I was in the same boat.  

[cpcathy]

Who’s Alec???

[patty1h]

Alec is the guy who told the story about being lost in the woods as a child and hearing something call his name.  He also spoke about his time in Iraq and having the taste of copper (fear) in his mouth before going on missions.

[bamlou]

2 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

It appears the DA has a major case of the guilties after new evidence was presented to him.

This confused me. Does this new murder imply that El Cuco killed another child beforehand on its way to the camp ground? Or does this suggest that there's possibly another monster in the area?

I couldn't quite place how this murder fits into El Cuco's timeline, or if it was a completely separate attack from the monster we know.

[FoundTime]

I don't know why, but I think the new child murder is a red herring. A plot device to get TPTB to sit up and take notice.

Count me in as thinking the boys going into the cave was present-day. I just figured everyone was dressed that way b/c they lived way the heck out in the country 😶 I even thought the same about the old-timey phone. Wasn't until I saw the old cars and said to myself, "Okay, why are all the cars from 1945?" that I started questioning myself. (Also, 1947, so pretty good guess 🤓)

Nice callback to that overhead shot of the parking area at the end when our gang gets there, too.

[terrymct]

11 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

I was a bit distracted at the very beginning and it actually took me about 2 thirds of the way through the episode to clue in to the fact that  the two boys getting lost in the cave was a flashback. I thought the writers were just throwing additional vulnerable people into the mix of the finale. I got all confused by the period cars and clothing of the people in the search party!

The same for me.  The boys clothes could have been from most any time.  It was when we started seeing vehicles that I finally caught on.  One vintage vehicle, ok, a bunch of them and it has to either be a flash back or a car show.

The boys being lost are the reason why the Bear Cave is closed in current times and why only the old timers know about it.  Are the scratches on the wall really from a bear or are they from the demon?    With all those shots with a black screen, more than one of the characters could be dead.  It can't be Holly since she's the lead and you know she's going to end up finding the demon.  The others are a crap shoot.  I think Ralph and Yunis might make it since they're essentially stand-ins for reason and faith in the discussions.   Everyone else is potentially wearing a red uniform and beaming down to a planet.

[enchantingmonkey]

The scene with Jeannie and Glory was one of my favorites.  Jeannie starts off with a brave face but as the conversation veers towards El Cuco her face drops, and she even winces when Glory mentions it directly.  I thought it was a fun play on Holly's declaration that a human being can't be in two realities at the same time, as we see Jeannie sitting and having a beer with Glory while clearly tormented by what's happening with Ralph.  

Obviously, Holly and Ralph are protected by plot armor when Jack is lining them up in his scope but I like all of the characters enough to be disappointed when Alec got his brains blown out.  

[cpcathy]

10 hours ago, patty1h said:

Alec is the guy who told the story about being lost in the woods as a child and hearing something call his name.  He also spoke about his time in Iraq and having the taste of copper (fear) in his mouth before going on missions.

Oh shit, I liked him.

[Auntie Anxiety]

I thought the episode dragged and was mostly a space saver up until the group got shot at. Did we really need to devote so much time to the flashback cave scenes in order to find out about the Bolton(?) Family sadness and Bear Cave? (I realized pretty quickly that it was a flashback because nothing costs 25 cents anymore 😉).

That being said, I’d love a piece of crispy fried chicken!

[iMonrey]

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I was a bit distracted at the very beginning and it actually took me about 2 thirds of the way through the episode to clue in to the fact that  the two boys getting lost in the cave was a flashback.

Yeah, I thought the boys in the cave was present day for most of the episode. It threw me when he went out to the old timey Mayberry phone, but TV has been doing this thing lately where genre shows try to use timeless tech to represent any era - like people will have old fashioned rotary phones and 50s kitsch everywhere but also have smart phones and modern cars. It's weird.

And then I was kind of annoyed to find out it was all a flashback. The immediacy of the two boys disappeared and I'm not sure it added anything to the story. I think Claude's brother could have just told us 2 kids disappeared, a search party got caved in on, end of story.

[ferjy]

13 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

I was a bit distracted at the very beginning and it actually took me about 2 thirds of the way through the episode to clue in to the fact that  the two boys getting lost in the cave was a flashback.

You could tell by the fashion, pants up to their chest. 😁

 

[ferjy]

29 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

but TV has been doing this thing lately where genre shows try to use timeless tech to represent any era

Ain’t nobody gonna wear them pants in this era! 😀

[ferjy]

1 hour ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Did we really need to devote so much time to the flashback cave scenes in order to find out about the Bolton(?) Family sadness and Bear Cave?

I usually like the slow pace but I have to admit I finally started fast forwarding through the countless cave scenes. 

1 hour ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

That being said, I’d love a piece of crispy fried chicken!

Oh you had to bring that up. I salivated all night thinking about that chicken, now you got me slobbering all over myself and I haven’t got my bib on yet! Road trip to Hi-Way Heaven!

 

[ShannaB]

Good fried chicken!!  Yum!!

Never read the book and wouldn't because I am not a Stephen King book fan but my gut tells me the cave story is important and tied to the Cuco origin story otherwise why spend so much time with the caves? 34 or 36 people trapped, starving and going crazy.  Hmmmm.  I said a gut feeling but I have to say I do live on Tums, soooooo.......

[scrb]

Did they have portable flash lights back in the day?

Common enough to give to kids to play with?

 

 

[terrymct]

13 minutes ago, scrb said:

Did they have portable flash lights back in the day?

Common enough to give to kids to play with?

 

Yes, flashlights were invented back in the late 1800's.   The family shown looked to have a good sized farm.  It's not unreasonable that they'd have some flashlights on hand for checking the barn or other areas at night.

[FoundTime]

7 hours ago, enchantingmonkey said:

The scene with Jeannie and Glory was one of my favorites.  

Also liked Jeannie telling Glory that she would explain what was going on but that she didn't think she could handle Glory's reaction. Has she been reading these forums?

[scottiB]

13 hours ago, FoundTime said:

I don't know why, but I think the new child murder is a red herring. A plot device to get TPTB to sit up and take notice.

Am rewatching it now, and I agree. I think that when all is said and done, Terry Maitland will be exonerated, and this murderer will be tagged for Frankie Peterson's.

[Starchild]

It's funny, I also thought the boys in the cave were contemporary, but I do recall thinking that kids don't really dress like that to play anymore, that it was old-fashioned.

[scrb]

One thing that just occurred to me, aren't they suppose to be in TN?

So the attractions of these caves are that they were once inhabited by saber tooth tigers.

TN is where they had the Scopes monkey trial, when they tried to block teaching of evolution.

Saber tooth tiger is only explained by evolution.

Now the trial was in the 1920s and this cave calamity was in the mid '40s -- right when the country would be at war maybe?  Surprised there might be a lot of men left in the towns.

 

[UnknownK]

The way the kids dressed, no Nike shoes, old cars, $.25 to get into the caves, those old nickel plated metal flashlights, old rotary pay phone gave it away as a flashback. Hell the fact that kids were playing outside at all and were not in their rooms texting on an iPhone is all you needed to see.

WW2 was over in 1945 and most soldiers were home in a couple years (massive drawdown of the army, airforce, and navy). While 300K people ended up in the service from TN during WW2 there were many deferments for hardships and farming (especially 38-44 year olds). The people who showed up to hunt for the kids seem to have been farmers mostly and older.

[blixie]

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The boys being lost are the reason why the Bear Cave is closed in current times and why only the old timers know about it. 

I've been pretty forgiving to this show, but 34 people dying in a cave in 80 years ago isn't going to fade from historical memory, especially in the south FFS.  You have to be 90 something or related to the dead people to remember this kind of disaster? NO. 

Otherwise what a great fucking episode, the tension building between the flashback and the current story line. I am so sad about Pelley but would be WAY WAY sadder if Andy is one of the dead. DO NOT KILL OFF ANDY. Much rather Yunis bites it. I also wonder though if no one else got shot, I feel like they've been building toward Jack fighting his overlord and I think it's interesting we saw him  have Ralph in his sites but he seemed to pick Pelley instead, someone he had less of a relationship with. He might also realize Ralph/Holly getting El Cuco might be his only hope for release. 

Ah yes I liked the fried chicken side bar it really does bring you closer to God. 

If they want to keep this as a series going forward beyond this initial one I'd love for it to focus on Holly/Andy as a crime solving couple AWKWARD THIN MAN. 

[humbleopinion]

4 hours ago, blixie said:

I am so sad about Pelley but would be WAY WAY sadder if Andy is one of the dead. DO NOT KILL OFF ANDY. Much rather Yunis bites it.

Or Howard the lawyer....He had leftover Hi Way to Heaven fried chicken as his last meal on earth...so that is nice....

On a side note, the actor, Bill Camp, who plays Glory's lawyer is the narrator to the new episodes of Forensic Files II...

[blixie]

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On a side note, the actor, Bill Camp, who plays Glory's lawyer is the narrator to the new episodes of Forensic Files II...

Oh no I've been hating on that new narration, but love Camp's acting.  I don't think Howard will die, they are trying to save the day with Seale/Claude. I do think Seale/Claude might die together or even sacrifice themselves (at least Claude especially Cuco kills Seale) if only to semi satiate El Cuco's need to decimate it's target thoroughly and maybe spare an actual child from being killed. 

[iMonrey]

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The way the kids dressed, no Nike shoes, old cars, $.25 to get into the caves, those old nickel plated metal flashlights, old rotary pay phone gave it away as a flashback. Hell the fact that kids were playing outside at all and were not in their rooms texting on an iPhone is all you needed to see.

I don't think it was immediately apparent, nor do I think it was meant to be. I don't even remember seeing any automobiles, but I guess that speaks to the level of attention I'm paying - which is fairly good by my own estimate. The first thing I noticed was the old-fashioned phone and that wasn't until half-way through, and even that didn't immediately make me realize it was in the past. I just thought it was weird and moved on. I take it for granted there are still rural, isolated spots that still have such things just for pure nostalgia or because they are part of the decor in that kind of tourist trap.

[raven]

I didn't think the kids were present day but I think the show was deliberately being somewhat vague with the earlier shots.   I think this was to build tension - why these kids?  Is El Cuco following them?  Will he get one of them?  etc.   Same with Claude's brother - you KNOW he is going to spill it to Claude, you just don't know when.

I thought this was a very good episode with a lot of tension.  It went by very quickly for me.  I can imagine the horror of dying slowly in the cave and I think that will have something to do with EC.  Maybe living off their fear kept him strong for a long time and he didn't have to hunt as much, or at all.

10 hours ago, blixie said:

I feel like they've been building toward Jack fighting his overlord and I think it's interesting we saw him  have Ralph in his sites but he seemed to pick Pelley instead, someone he had less of a relationship with. He might also realize Ralph/Holly getting El Cuco might be his only hope for release. 

I like this idea.  I know Jack was presented as an asshole but I can't help but feel sorry for him.  He's now a virtual slave and has murdered for EC.  He obviously wants release somehow. 

[patty1h]

44 minutes ago, raven said:

I thought this was a very good episode with a lot of tension.  It went by very quickly for me.  I can imagine the horror of dying slowly in the cave and I think that will have something to do with EC. 

As soon as I read that, I got the sinking feeling that all these weeks of monster trailing will end with El Cuco being sealed under a ton of rocks by another cave in.  If that's how all this is wrapped up, I think I'll be pissed.

[scottiB]

On 3/2/2020 at 6:20 PM, scottiB said:

Am rewatching it now, and I agree. I think that when all is said and done, Terry Maitland will be exonerated, and this murderer will be tagged for Frankie Peterson's.

Allow myself to quote myself, but I wonder if at the end we find that Glory killed this boy to create doubt for Terry. And no one knows.

I doubt it, but would be a neat turn to my demented self.

[Johnny Dollar]

I feel like singing “Road to Nowhere” by The Talking Heads when watching this show. Another hour spent on navel gazing and fried chicken eating with the last five minutes actually advancing the plot. The whole storyline about the cave collapse was pointless (BTW, I don’t care how old you are, a local disaster of that proportion in such a small town would become ingrained into all residents). If that cave was so important to the Bolton family, you’d think one of those dopes would’ve mentioned it earlier. I first thought that El Cuco was somehow involved in the deaths, so maybe that will be shown in the final episode.

Hopefully they don’t forget to bring an end to this show in episode ten.  The writers might’ve thought they had a few more episodes to wrap this thing up.

 

 

 

[tennisgurl]

On 3/2/2020 at 6:05 PM, FoundTime said:

Also liked Jeannie telling Glory that she would explain what was going on but that she didn't think she could handle Glory's reaction. Has she been reading these forums?

I really want to work "I want to explain but I dont think I can handle your reaction" into a conversation sometime! I do wonder how Glory will feel when she finds out everyone else has pretty much joined team "Yep, its a boogyman" and are off to find it? Will she just keep denying, even in the face of photo evidence, and start trying to justify her husband being a child killer? 

No Alec! I liked him! I know that some people will have to die in the fight in the fight with Coco, and that Ralph and Holly are the most likely survivors, being the more or less main characters, but I like everyone enough to be sad to lose anyone. Maybe he just got side swiped? Probably wishful thinking though, but maybe Jack was trying not to hit anyone? Jack was always a pretty sleazy jerk, but its clear he hates this, is disgusted by Coco, and has tried to fight back, even if he didnt end up winning. I guess he was thinking to take out the veteran who might be the biggest threat first, or did he think that Alec had the biggest chance to survive, or was he trying not to hit anyone he knows better?

I found this episode to be really intense, and I know that the backstory with the bear cave will be important, so I found the flashbacks really tragic and interesting. The horror of it all, the kids hearing their dad and the dad hearing them, but being unable to find them, and the rescue party getting stuck in the cave, its just so primal scary to me. I have gone on a few cave trips and been spunkling, and I really love exploring caves, but I am always really creeped out thinking of what could happen if I get lost. With the very specific events of the cave in, I wonder if Coco was living in that cave, and got a massive energy boost from this scenario (dead children, the kids families following them in death, whole families taken out in the periphery) and decided to recreate it, but even more and spread out longer? Keep eating the fear? Or maybe it was responsible for this? Or maybe he was one of the people in the cave, and he become some kind of monster in the cave? That poor mom, her whole family gone in just one afternoon. How do you even begin to cope? 

I figured pretty quickly that it was in the past, the clothes, the lack of cell phones or references to them, the old timie looking gift shop, I got a 40/early 50s rural vibe right away. 

Holly and Andy continue to be adorable, and it continues to make me afraid for Andy. They are so cute, I want a spin off where they solve crimes awkwardly yet sweetly together!

Edited March 6, 2020 by tennisgurl