S08.E03: False Friends

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Carrie arranges a meeting; Haqqani finds trouble at home; Saul cuts a deal.

Promo:

Clip:

Original air date: 2/23/20

[grommit2]

Geez...shoot him already!

[LoveLeigh]

I have a feeling that they are setting Max up for something bad to happen to him from those bullies. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Haqqani was right - he made a mistake by not killing Jalal. I know that no one wants to murder their own child, let alone their only surviving child, but FFS he tried to have you blown up, dude!

When Haqqani told Saul that he would declare a cease fire the next morning, I was afraid that Jalal was going to sneak back and kill him that night.

As soon as that guy started talking about how they hadn't had any attacks because of their good luck charm Max, I was like shhhhh, don't jinx Max! I need him to survive this season.

I loved that Carrie and Yevgeny got around Mike's bug the old fashioned way - regular old noise.

Edited February 27, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo
typo

[scrb]

Carrie has to do things her own way.  Condescending to Mike that he's finally catching on in his job.

Then she gives the president political advice, come to Afghanistan for a big photo op.

What could go wrong?

Saul urging Haqqani on to a peace deal.  It's one thing if it's some green, idealistic person doing this but Saul should know better?

Well he did walk into an ambush.

How do Carrie and Saul keep their jobs?

[dwmarch]

I was really surprised they went there with Carrie's "tell me something that's not in my file" secret. Back when that episode aired I remember that the audience wasn't entirely sure if Carrie was deliberately trying to drown her baby and I don't remember the show ever coming back to it. However, I am not ready to say that this was something Carrie confessed to Yevgeny while they were strolling through the birch trees. It's entirely possible it's something she shouted out during a manic episode.

Haqqani throwing his traitorous son out (to be picked up by the ISI) just before giving his big speech? I think Haqqani is dead as of next episode.

I don't know how intentional it was but Carrie's disguise reminded me of the famous National Geographic picture of the Afghan gal with the really striking eyes:

[Pallas]

I was disconcerted by the episode's...homage, I suppose, to the notable West Wing episode "17 People." Where in the opener, the Communications Director tells the Chief of Staff that the Vice President was planning to speak at a major conference with donors, on a venture disguised as a camping trip. Followed by continual discussion of whether and why the Vice President "had put a poll out in the field."  As here, but this time, the Chief of Staff was telling the President. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Yeah, the VP likes national security advisors who don't get kidnapped. 😒

Just strong enough never to lose, and just weak enough never to win.

That guy playing station chief Mike Dunne has an unfortunate profile. Quite a protruding forehead.

More convinced that Jenna is a double agent and that her seemingly lower competence is part of her cover.

[snarts]

So I predict that Haqqani will be overthrown thus nullifying the ceasefire just in time for the President's visit further casting suspicion on Carrie. 

Why the heck would Saul stick around the compound after being released?

 

[WaltersHair]

So much nope here.

I said last week that something was wrong with Jenna. She said she was admiring the tradecraft, but she could have meant the Russian guy, not Carrie.

The president making a public visit is a not just a bad idea, but what the worst idea. Send the Vice President. They're generally disposable. Kidding. Mostly.

Lip quivering Carrie, oh how I love and hate it.

Didn't Nixon make a secret visit to Vietnam back in the day? Is this a callback?

[preeya]

What's up with the cigarette smoking?? It is so distracting.

 

[Norma Desmond]

Yeah, did Carrie even smoke before?

 

Anyway, it gives me pause that Saul is so willing to not only negotiate, but trust and even be friendly with Haqqani, the guy that invaded the American Embassy, murdered dozens of americans and slit Fara's throat.

 

 

[slowpoked]

14 hours ago, Norma Desmond said:

Anyway, it gives me pause that Saul is so willing to not only negotiate, but trust and even be friendly with Haqqani, the guy that invaded the American Embassy, murdered dozens of americans and slit Fara's throat.

So. Much. This. Did I miss something between the end of Season 4 up to now? I thought US doesn't negotiate with terrorists. Season 4 was Homeland's Benghazi. And now Saul was willing to forego all of that - being friendly with Haqqani and even Tasneem, like nothing happened. 

I will watch till the bitter end because I watch all prior seasons, but I can't follow the story anymore. I miss everything that made Homeland must-watch TV in its first couple or so seasons.

[Pallas]

14 hours ago, preeya said:

What's up with the cigarette smoking?? It is so distracting.

Carrie is a stress smoker. As I recall, she and Brody shared a smoke outside the veterans' support group center where they first met face to face. She likely quit altogether when she became pregnant with Franny, but it's also likely that cigarettes were made available to her in prison (by Yevgeny), as part of her handling. And gladly accepted when every other stress reliever -- including her medication -- was denied her. 

[Norma Desmond]

2 hours ago, slowpoked said:

And now Saul was willing to forego all of that - being friendly with Haqqani and even Tasneem, like nothing happened. 

Yes, the same Tasneem that delayed the rescue when the convoy he and Carrie were was attacked by Haqqani's terrorists. Insane. I wonder what Max will think of this, seeing as he a) loved Fara 2) saw Haqqani slitting her throat.

 

Does Carrie even know Saul is negotiating with freakin Haqqani?

2 hours ago, slowpoked said:

I will watch till the bitter end because I watch all prior seasons, but I can't follow the story anymore. I miss everything that made Homeland must-watch TV in its first couple or so seasons.

Same here. I loved seasons 1, 2 and 4; I hope this final season does the show justice. The last episode's title is Prisoners of War (a throwback to the original series Homeland was based on).

[Bannon]

The writing was great from the show's inception, through Carrie obtaining Brody's confession on the thumbnail drive, about halfway through season 2. It's been a roller coaster ever since, alternating between decently written arcs, and some of tge worst dreck imaginable. The decent stuff tends to have overseas settings, the dreck tends to be set in D.C. or New York.

Hoping for plot continuity, however, at this point, is kind of excessively optimistic. I'm kind of surprised I've stuck with the show, although I do fast forward through scenes now.

[gooberfish]

Haqqani is hot. 

[nara]

On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2020 at 7:45 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Haqqani was right - he made a mistake by not killing Jalal. I know that no one wants to murder their own child, let alone their only surviving child, but FFS he tried to have you blown up, dude!

When Haqqani told Saul that he would declare a cease fire the next morning, I was afraid that Jalal was going to sneak back and kill him that night.

As soon as that guy started talking about how they hadn't had any attacks because of their good luck charm Max, I was like shhhhh, don't jinx Max! I need him to survive this season.

I loved that Carrie and Yevgeny got around Mike's bug the old fashioned way - regular old noise.

I thought for sure the guy who tricked Jalal would suddenly kill Haqqani.

The guy who thinks Max is a good luck charm is a goner IMO.

On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2020 at 10:17 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Yeah, the VP likes national security advisors who don't get kidnapped. 

More convinced that Jenna is a double agent and that her seemingly lower competence is part of her cover.

That VP is definitely working his own agenda since he is from the other party (Republican, I believe), but I think it's the third time Saul has been kidnapped--right?

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 8:06 PM, WaltersHair said:

I said last week that something was wrong with Jenna. She said she was admiring the tradecraft, but she could have meant the Russian guy, not Carrie.

That would be a nice twist, if Jenna was a double agent.  I honestly thought they were building up to Carrie having a female friend for once.  I think Mike is the bad guy--there's a reason Carrie doesn't respect him.  Pure speculation, of course.

Just watched this episode today, so it was strange to hear while a real-life deal with Taliban was being announced.

[edhopper]

Because that is how peace works. The British made a deal with Sinn Fein, Israel made a deal with the PLO.  Dictators have left to live well in exile.  It wasn't Justice, but it was better for the countries.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

That VP is definitely working his own agenda since he is from the other party (Republican, I believe), but I think it's the third time Saul has been kidnapped--right?

The VP's calling for Saul to be fired, while he was still being held captive, was IMO a coy reference to a certain person IRL. The utter lack of empathy and blaming the victim was on-the-nose, I think. But the way Saul keeps finding himself in these situations is kind of absurd. He and Carrie both would've been put permanently out to pasture long before now. One would hope so, anyway.

[grommit2]

An observation:  this story line nearly matches what is actually happening NOW in Afghanistan.  There is a temporary cease fire, with the next step being withdrawal and peach.  But this story line was filmed months ago. 

I find that fascinating.

[catsitter]

On 2/25/2020 at 6:18 PM, Pallas said:

Carrie is a stress smoker. As I recall, she and Brody shared a smoke outside the veterans' support group center where they first met face to face. She likely quit altogether when she became pregnant with Franny, but it's also likely that cigarettes were made available to her in prison (by Yevgeny), as part of her handling. And gladly accepted when every other stress reliever -- including her medication -- was denied her. 

She definitely smoked when she was pregnant.

[John Potts]

I'm sure the optics of firing a man while he's a hostage are pretty bad (glad the President could see that). Though I can't believe the Taliban would release Saul for nothing (even if they knew he was honest).

"Yeah, it's complicated - I lost 6 months of my life!" How about - "Let's hear what he has to say, it could be important (even if it's a pack lies)?" Not everything is about you Carrie!

OK, still like the ISI lady - she's competent and calm under pressure. If only her agent was a patch on her. Can't believe she picked him up - what use is he to you now (I thought she'd shoot him).

Carrie think you can recruit Yevgeny? What about the other way round?
I'd love it if Carrie told her Mini Me - "I'm going to sleep with him - that's sure to ruin his life!"

Callback to S4(?) with Carrie trying to drown Frannie - I'm impressed.

Is it really so surprising that the VP would be running for President? Particularly if he's from the opposition. But maybe the President would have more support among the military if he mentioned he used to run the SGC!

On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2020 at 1:45 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Haqqani was right - he made a mistake by not killing Jalal. I know that no one wants to murder their own child, let alone their only surviving child, but FFS he tried to have you blown up, dude!

When Haqqani told Saul that he would declare a cease fire the next morning, I was afraid that Jalal was going to sneak back and kill him that night.

I thought Haqqani would order his men to do it

It wouldn't surprise me if the VP sabotages the peace talks to promote his own candidacy.

On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2020 at 5:18 PM, scrb said:

How do Carrie and Saul keep their jobs?

Good contracts!

On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2020 at 2:06 AM, WaltersHair said:

The president making a public visit is a not just a bad idea, but what the worst idea. Send the Vice President. They're generally disposable.

"The Vice Presidency is not worth a bucket of warm piss" - VP John Garner

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

You either trust me or you don't:

 

[Pallas]

On 3/3/2020 at 12:59 PM, John Potts said:

Is it really so surprising that the VP would be running for President?

Yes. It's never happened that a Vice President  has challenged a President eligible for another term. It looks like Warner and Wellington missed a clause in the deal they struck with the now-VP.

[nara]

6 hours ago, Pallas said:

Yes. It's never happened that a Vice President  has challenged a President eligible for another term. It looks like Warner and Wellington missed a clause in the deal they struck with the now-VP.

I thought he was the speaker of the house who got promoted to VP when the previous prez resigned 

[Pallas]

A Vice President who succeeds a President who died or resigned will nominate their own VP: as Gerald Ford did with Nelson Rockefeller, after succeeding Richard Nixon. Until the nominee is confirmed by the Senate and sworn in, the Speaker remains next in line of succession, but is not Vice President.

Warner chose someone from across the aisle as a unity gesture. So far the 8-ball says,  Outlook Cloudy.

[Loandbehold]

Actually, there was one time that a VP challenged an incumbent president. Coincidentally, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams were in different parties. VP Jefferson defeats Pres John Adams in 1800

[John Potts]

Yes, while I wouldn't expect a VP to challenge a President of his own party, it doesn't seem that unlikely that a VP from the opposing party might do so. Unless the (Republican?) VP promised not to do so (and you know what a political promise is worth), I would expect nothing else. And would it actually be so bad anyway? He may have insight into your weaknesses, but you've got insight into his. And any politically damaging things he knows, he's already complicit in. But then trying to apply real world politics to TV Presidents is probably futile!

[Roseanna]

 

On 2/25/2020 at 5:30 AM, Norma Desmond said:

Anyway, it gives me pause that Saul is so willing to not only negotiate, but trust and even be friendly with Haqqani, the guy that invaded the American Embassy, murdered dozens of americans and slit Fara's throat.

That's what spycraft (and international politics) is: enemies and allies change all the time.  It's not about personal feelings but what is useful to the national interest just now.

Is the US so old-fashioned that POTUS has only male advisors? 

On 3/3/2020 at 7:59 PM, John Potts said:

Carrie think you can recruit Yevgeny? What about the other way round?

Maybe it's only "only a spy can understand other spy".

Anyways, Yevgeni is so cute.  

[Roseanna]

On 2/24/2020 at 6:17 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Just strong enough never to lose, and just weak enough never to win.

I am not sure of this. In the unbalanced war the guerillas have no need to win, it's enough that they continue to hold their ground. Eventually their seemingly stronger opponent will get tired, realizes that it can't win and leaves. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

In the unbalanced war the guerillas have no need to win, it's enough that they continue to hold their ground. Eventually their seemingly stronger opponent will get tired, realizes that it can't win and leaves. 

Perhaps but I don't think the character was talking about winning by default. They'd probably would like to defeat out-and-out the so-called superpowers that have kept coming at them. Meanwhile, they know the seemingly stronger oponents won't/can't use the ultimate weapons that would end things once for all. The

[Cranberry]

Remember, you can talk about politics as they relate to the show, but leave real-world political figures out of it. Thanks!

[Kel Varnsen]

On 3/3/2020 at 12:59 PM, John Potts said:

Carrie think you can recruit Yevgeny? What about the other way round?
I'd love it if Carrie told her Mini Me - "I'm going to sleep with him - that's sure to ruin his life!"

I am three episodes in and I am kind of thinking that Carrie has probably already had sex with Yevgeny. It would continue the tradition of her fucking the most inappropriate people possible.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Kel Varnsen