S08.E05: Prochnost

[scarynikki12]

Quote

Upon learning the key to oppose The Monitor, Oliver and team return to Russia on a mission to gather the necessary materials.

[scarynikki12]

At least Oliver and Diggle know Lyla’s working with the Monitor. Siren was finally useful. 

[insomniadreams88]

Loved all the Oliver/Mia/William stuff. Loved Anatoly. Let's keep him. He apologized to William. Something Laurel will never do. 

The Diggle/Roy stuff felt out of place and like it was only in this episode because they needed a reason to not have Diggle go to Russia and the season is only 10 episodes so there's limited time.

The excuses for Connor, Dinah, and Rene's absences were awful.

No more Mia/Laurel scenes, please? Also I have no idea what that conversation was. I was so confused by the beginning of it I think I missed the rest? (And I feel like everyone is more than happy to forget E1 LL existed – Quentin trying to make E2 into her, E2 living her life, now that conversation).

Plus I feel like half the time KC's acting doesn't line up with what E2 is saying – going back to how she was only talking to Oliver in the first couple of episodes even when Diggle was RIGHT THERE, yet E2 LL must mention she doesn't like Oliver in conversations with Mia. But maybe just me.

Oh, and I don't think there's ever been another character in the Arrowverse about who people say "you've definitely changed" as much as with E2 Laurel.

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Oh, and I don't think there's ever been another character in the Arrowverse about who people say "you've definitely changed" as much as with E2 Laurel.

Seriously - and it was mentioned by THREE people tonight. We get it show, we get it. Fully redeemed here, no more baddie, nosirreee. 

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

Seriously - and it was mentioned by THREE people tonight. We get it show, we get it. Fully redeemed here, no more baddie, nosirreee. 

My problem is they continue to gloss over her time as a villain, with one line here and there that’s immediately ignored, followed by more “totally changed, hero!” I know the show doesn’t want to spend any more time on her than necessary but that could be fixed with one or two sentences. Short ones, too. 

[bettername2come]

This is the most I've ever liked Anatoly, and that's saying something. Love that they left as brothers. Good Siren, not setting Oliver up. Lyla, noooo! I'm so curious about Lyla's arc with The Monitor. I feel like there's an amazing, shocking twist coming, even if they don't go full comic book with it. 

Daddy Oliver is so perfect. Stephen Amell is bringing his A game here. This is the best acting he's ever done, and the most he's ever gotten to have these big, emotional moments just constantly coming up. They've written Oliver's emotional journey so well.

I feel we were cheated out of a William reaction shot when Mia asked about the island. You mean the island his mother died on? When she was lured there because he got kidnapped again? He might have some feelings about that.

[quarks]

Not quite up to the rest of this season, but -

1. Return of Roy and Anatoly, YAY!

2. Return of completely ridiculous bell thingy, MOSTLY YAY!

3. Return of even more ridiculous tennis ball shooting, ABSOLUTELY YAY!

4. Confirmation that Bloodlust Can Be Ended Through Teamwork, Something That Would Have Been Very Useful To Know Back In Season Four, NOT REALLY YAY!

5. Refusal to believe that fixing cars can be a form of atonement, LOOK WE ALL ATONE IN DIFFERENT WAYS YAY

6. Absolutely appalling budget cuts even for this show, DECIDEDLY NOT YAY!

7. "Connor, Dinah and Rene are all Too Busy For Your Family Drama," ER OK THEN YAY!

8. Not-Laurel so moved by Mia's hero worship that she decides to leave an entire world completely dead so she can continue to be a hero CONFUSINGLY YAY I GUESS NOT ACTUALLY SURE HOW I WAS SUPPOSED TO TAKE THAT YAY

9. Lila prepared to to drug her husband and friends YAY CRISIS IS COMING YAY

10. Cliffhanger YAY!

[Primal Slayer]

Overall it was a decent episode. This season has done such a better job of intertwining the storylines together...I dont want us to go back to the Present/Flashfowards this season. 

Oliver having to deal with kids who are grown and havent had to rely on him to survive was a good storyline, he gets to continue to be tormented by not being able to raise them but at least he knows they turned out to be good people. 

It was nice to see Laurel get to interact with Mia/William/Anatoly and decide to choose Oliver/saving everyone else than just get E2 back. Laurel/Lyla scenes continue to be great.

Yeah it was nice to have Roy back but I just cant with the "woe is me" they have put him in since he left oh so long ago. Really glad they had him get over it by the end of the episode.

Lyla's big betrayal being revealed following by darts coming out of nowhere was....a bit laughable? But hopefully it lets us get some answers next week. Wish we had gotten the scene where Laurel tells Diggle/Oliver just to see the looks on their faces at first.  

[Chaser]

3 minutes ago, quarks said:

8. Not-Laurel so moved by Mia's hero worship that she decides to leave an entire world completely dead so she can continue to be a hero CONFUSINGLY YAY I GUESS NOT ACTUALLY SURE HOW I WAS SUPPOSED TO TAKE THAT YAY

When you put it like that...it’s quite Laurel.

I think they should have Wells’d Laurel. Roast BS on E2. Bring in E whatever Laurel. Clean slate no murder.

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I think they should have Wells’d Laurel. Roast BS on E2. Bring in E whatever Laurel. Clean slate no murder.

I just wish Arrow would treat Laurel doppelgangers like The Flash treats versions of Harrison Wells — like they’re their own people. That BC nonsense in the Mia/Laurel conversation didn’t help. 

[quarks]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

When you put it like that...it’s quite Laurel.

I think they should have Wells’d Laurel. Roast BS on E2. Bring in E whatever Laurel. Clean slate no murder.

I dunno. So far, I've only liked one of the four (five?) Laurels we've had so far - this one - so I'm not inclined to suggest changing Laurels again. The odds are not in our favor.

(I think that's the right number of Laurels? Original Laurel, Not-Laurel/Black Siren, Definitely Not Laurel/Siren X or whatever over on Flash, Fake Alien Laurel, and Whatever Laurel That Was Who Showed Up And Stared At Sara On A Couch For A Couple Minutes over on Legends of Tomorrow, right? Or am I forgetting a Laurel?)

[scarynikki12]

7 minutes ago, quarks said:

Whatever Laurel That Was Who Showed Up And Stared At Sara On A Couch For A Couple Minutes over on Legends of Tomorrow, right?

I call that one was The Essence Of The Spear.

[JamieLynn832002]

21 minutes ago, quarks said:

Confirmation that Bloodlust Can Be Ended Through Teamwork, Something That Would Have Been Very Useful To Know Back In Season Four, NOT REALLY YAY!

I think Roy's bloodlust is different; Thea could be talked down but after months of not killing she was going to die which doesn't seem to be true for him (I assume the Lotus did cure that aspect of the bloodlust) so powering through is more of an option for him.

[scarynikki12]

9 minutes ago, quarks said:

(I think that's the right number of Laurels? Original Laurel, Not-Laurel/Black Siren, Definitely Not Laurel/Siren X or whatever over on Flash, Fake Alien Laurel, and Whatever Laurel That Was Who Showed Up And Stared At Sara On A Couch For A Couple Minutes over on Legends of Tomorrow, right? Or am I forgetting a Laurel?)

But, strictly speaking, we've only seen three versions of Laurel: Dead, Black Siren, and Siren-X. I don't consider Alien Laurel and Spear Laurel to truly be like the doppelgangers since both were manifestations of how other characters saw her/wanted her to be. Oliver and Sara felt guilty about how they treated Laurel so we got the Alien version who was never cheated on, was never in competition with her sister, and who was going to fulfill her lifelong dream of marrying Oliver Queen. Spear Laurel allowed Sara to assuage her rage at Laurel's death and guilt about her role in their awful relationship (plus a bonus of Laurel no longer being an alcoholic).

Back to the episode, I really loved the father/daughter training and getting bonding through being hostages and fighting partners. Mia wanting to learn how to dislocate her thumb was hilarious and I hope she gets to do it soon.

We didn't really see Roy do any parkour did we? He needs to make that up to us if he's going to stick around.

Yes, yes, Siren didn't betray Oliver like we all predicted but how did she get away with making Lyla wait 14+ hours while Diggle flew to Russia? Cause there's no way that Lyla, who was prepared with tranq darts, wouldn't have been keeping tabs on their progress to get those plans the second they were secured. Unless Dig used more breach tech?

[Trisha]

35 minutes ago, quarks said:

Not-Laurel so moved by Mia's hero worship that she decides to leave an entire world completely dead so she can continue to be a hero CONFUSINGLY YAY I GUESS NOT ACTUALLY SURE HOW I WAS SUPPOSED TO TAKE THAT YAY

When she said “if saving E2 is going back to the version I used to be then what the hell is the point?” I actually rewound it to make sure I heard her correctly. The point is saving the billions of people who no longer exist, you ninny! And the fact that the show painted that decision as the latest notch on her redemption belt is 🙄

[Primal Slayer]

10 minutes ago, Trisha said:

When she said “if saving E2 is going back to the version I used to be then what the hell is the point?” I actually rewound it to make sure I heard her correctly. The point is saving the billions of people who no longer exist, you ninny! And the fact that the show painted that decision as the latest notch on her redemption belt is 🙄

She knows the mission Oliver is on to save the multiverse and why trust the Monitor when he already did the deed of erasing her people? I only wish we'd had seen her go back/forth on the decision.

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

She knows the mission Oliver is on to save the multiverse and why trust the Monitor when he already did the deed of erasing her people?

Then that should've been her reasoning instead of what she said it was.

[Trisha]

6 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

She knows the mission Oliver is on to save the multiverse and why trust the Monitor when he already did the deed of erasing her people? I only wish we'd had seen her go back/forth on the decision.

If that’s why, then she should have said that. What she actually said was that she prefers the person she is on E1, so E2 be damned. 

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, Trisha said:

If that’s why, then she should have said that. What she actually said was that she prefers the person she is on E1, so E2 be damned. 

Eh, she probably feels that way, Arrow sucks at getting their point across anyway. 

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

Eh, she probably feels that way, Arrow sucks at getting their point across anyway. 

I doubt it. The writers had three separate people mention how much she's changed tonight - they intended that to be a heroic gesture...somehow. 

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

I doubt it. The writers had three separate people mention how much she's changed tonight - they intended that to be a heroic gesture...somehow. 

She already started the change on E2 so I still think they just did what they usually do.

[bettername2come]

26 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Unless Dig used more breach tech?

I think this is a pretty good throwaway excuse for any timing issue now. "How'd Dig walk in at the exact moment to tell them exactly what they needed to hear?" "Breach tech." "How'd he get to Russia before Lyla figured them out?" "Breach tech." "How come Dig's so much better than Mia at the bell challenge?" "Breach tech."

[Lantern7]

Nothing quite like Fight Clubbing in Ruskistan Bialya to bring the Queen family closer together. And Anatoly becomes the unofficial "Funcle" ("fun uncle") that William and Mia never knew they needed. And then friggin' Lyla ruins everything after Laurel exposes her.

Speaking of Laurel . . . looks like Felicity glossed over most of her sketchy history when telling stories to Mia. Or maybe she just recycled stories about Sara. But hey, Laurel-2 has that haircut, so she can't be bad anymore! Wait, Lyla's hair is similar, and she's working with the Monitor.

[apinknightmare]

10 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

She already started the change on E2 so I still think they just did what they usually do.

Oh, they definitely don't give a shit, I just think it's lulzy that they highlighted something that's actually not great as the final key to her ~redemption. So very Arrow.

[Soulfire]

Scene of above.

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

The excuses for Connor, Dinah, and Rene's absences were awful.

I thought Connor's made a lot of sense.  He went to go check in on his mom.  Who wouldn't want to see a parent that I assume had been long dead? It was wild how much they all trusted him to hark off on his own but I can totally understand Connor being gone but Dinah and Rene having a lot to do in the city, lol.  That one was laughable.  

3 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Back to the episode, I really loved the father/daughter training and getting bonding through being hostages and fighting partners. Mia wanting to learn how to dislocate her thumb was hilarious and I hope she gets to do it soon.

Yes, yes, Siren didn't betray Oliver like we all predicted but how did she get away with making Lyla wait 14+ hours while Diggle flew to Russia? Cause there's no way that Lyla, who was prepared with tranq darts, wouldn't have been keeping tabs on their progress to get those plans the second they were secured. Unless Dig used more breach tech?

I think it was Oliver that flew back to Star City first

I loved how pumped Mia was about learning how to dislocate her thumbs and then we had WIlliam that just really wanted to see it, lol.  I love that William shares his dad's gift for languages.  He has has so much in common with Felicity it's nice seeing a bit of Oliver in him too.  I wonder if he cooks.  

Speaking of cooks.  SA pulled off that line about Mia not knowing about cooking or knives making sense so well.  It was the perfect subtle moment.  It was hilarious and he didn't even have to play it as a joke.  Just his quick acceptance of the fact was enough.

I loved Oliver's impassioned line about never breaking his promise to Felicity to keep their kids safe and I believe he probably made that in his heart, but It was actually Felicity that promised him to keep their kids safe.  And she did even if it also meant that they had to grow up not knowing each other. 

I still wish they could have given her reasoning.  I can come up with a few thoughts why leaving William out having to live a life in hiding would make sense if they could explain WHY no one would have gone after him as the publically known son of Oliver Queen.  But that's a rant for another time, lol.

I actually really liked Diggle and Roy's scenes.  Particularly Roy saying Oliver gave him a purpose and gave him the team.  We know who Oliver gave him.  The only ones that mattered.  Diggle comes to get him because Future Felicity figured out where Roy was and then believed in him enough to trust him with her kids.  I loved that even though she's not here, Felicity was part of the reason Roy is not going to rot on Lian Yu.  

I adored Anatoly.  (Can we have HIM in the spinoff?)

I also liked his leopard doesn't change its spots metaphor especially when Laurel tried to use it against him.  Anatoly was a decent guy making shady/tough/lethal  choices who lost his way and hired himself out to a madman for money and but then returned to the semi shady guy we adore.  I am not actually one to say people can't change but I loved that in his analogy, he was not an example to dispute it, but one to show it was true.  Lol

That said, Laurel trading her whole world and everyone she supposedly loved for the chance to become some famous hero was probably the most fitting way for BS to "prove" her loyalty, lol.  That was just hilarious.  I didn't mind the scene of Mia praising her at all.  Mia clearly is clueless about Black Siren. 

Chances are she heard stories about the original BC since Felicity considered that Laurel a friend and then the Black Canary stories that belonged to Dinah.  And then maybe some that belonged to BS as another BC on E1.  But I think she got most of her hero worship from the urban legends around town which we know for fact started with Sara.  Felicity had a friendship with Black Siren but Mia didn't mention her at all.  Just Black Canary.  ONE of the black Canaries, lol.  

I loved Lyla being being outed and INSTANTLY taking everyone out, lol.  Of course she wasn't standing on a roof top alone with no back up, lol. And I'm trusting that even if Lyla is making a mistake, she thinks she's doing the right thing so no shade against her.  Next week looks really trippy and fun.  

[thuganomics85]

As soon as they mentioned going to Russia last episode, I was hoping Anatoly would make an appearance and they didn't not disappoint!  He continues to be one of the best recurring characters on the show, and if this is his final appearance on the show, I'm glad it was a good one.  Liked him meeting both William and Mia, and it being clear that he respects both of them in their own ways.  And, of course, the relationship between him and Oliver, which continues to be a great one, and one that both Stephen Amell and David Nykl seem to enjoy performing.  Wasn't wild about him also being used as a mouthpiece to tell everyone that Laurel's cool now, but I've kind of come to expect it at this point. 

Spoiler

Watch Felicity's grand return not even be about her and Oliver, and just her all "You are an inspiration, Laurel!  I wish I was more like you!"

Anyway, who doesn't love family vacations to Russia, where you get to steal weapon plans from the Bratva, and get to do some father/daughter bonding time by cage fighting!  For the Queens, that's.... well, probably not that odd, to be honest.  If anything, a nice distraction from them getting ready to take an all-knowing alien asshole in the upcoming weeks!

Nothing too surprising with the Diggle/Roy scenes, but I guess it was a solid way to get Roy back into the fold.

So, Laurel ends up not betraying Oliver after-all; likely due to her final exchange with Anatoly (damn, he's that good!); and tells him and Diggle that Lyla is working for The Monitor.  They confront her, she's apologetic, and... they suddenly get darted by a mysterious person that is also in league with Lyla.  Someone else we know, perhaps?

[way2interested]

5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Speaking of cooks.  SA pulled off that line about Mia not knowing about cooking or knives making sense so well.  It was the perfect subtle moment.  It was hilarious and he didn't even have to play it as a joke.  Just his quick acceptance of the fact was enough

Everything about that scene makes me laugh and enjoy it the more I see it. The cooking joke, the indeterminate amount of time passing montage, Oliver's face realizing he has to step up his training after Mia shoots one ball perfectly, Mia's face after Oliver sets the machine to shoot all of the tennis balls, all the trick arrows, the "I'll make a man out of you" type ending to the montage. All fun 

[apinknightmare]

10 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Yes, yes, Siren didn't betray Oliver like we all predicted but how did she get away with making Lyla wait 14+ hours while Diggle flew to Russia? Cause there's no way that Lyla, who was prepared with tranq darts, wouldn't have been keeping tabs on their progress to get those plans the second they were secured. Unless Dig used more breach tech?

I thought Lyla and Laurel met in Star City both times

[UNOSEZ]

Mia was annoying again... Adult William is great.. Daddy Oliver is the best.. How is it oliver's fault that Mia didn't know William.. That's on felicity.. Laurel gave good advice and kudos on her calling out the pity party Mia was throwing 

[Featherhat]

I enjoyed the episode. I loved the training montage at the beginning and Mia's look when she first saw the load of tennis balls. 

I like Mia and find Kat McNamara very appealing, even when Mia is frustrating sometimes. She's young and hot headed and got all this stuff about her Dad going on in her head. Unlike some other characters I could mention they actually want to show her journey over the season. I love all of Dad Oliver, he's actually handling it well, even as he freaks out. I like the fact that he brought up that it was a couple of months ago that he saw Mia as a baby. SA really seems on the verge of finding it all too much this final season, very emotional in a good way. Love that he found out about the fight club Mia and William met in, which was inevitable once the promo for this ep came out. 

ANATOLY! David Nykl just lit up the scene. I love that he took time travel all in his stride and he wants to be a fun Uncle and he's happily running a bar not worrying about being Pakhan and giving Oliver sage advice. Ben Lewis continues to shine as William, loved his line about the tracking nanites. 

It would have been very easy to include Dinah and Rene in the Diggle and Roy plot but they didn't, either they're trying to trim the budget extra  tight for COIE or they just really don't care about them now. Diggle and Roy themselves where fine but nothing spectacular, just a repeat of Roy's usual blood lust troubles and Diggle trying to prevent the future. Did they really have to keep Theroy split up for a vague, possibly changing future?  

OK show we get it it's insta!redemption for E2. Just having other characters tell us how much of a hero she is. Yawn. KC characters have always been tell not show. Not surprised about resolving the Monitor's offer because there isn't time in this 10 episode season for more dithering as would happen if it was 22 eps and she's not going to betray them because they're setting up this spin off. I guess having her and Mia and Lyla talking this show passes the Bechdel test. 

Lyla I really don't know what to say...……. you always did have your own agenda. It just depends how deep it goes. But Mr. Monitor if you really are trying to prevent the Crisis shouldn't you be trying to clear up Oliver's current thinking about you vs the Anti Monitor. That seems like it could be a costly misunderstanding. 

[olicityfan25]

E2 Laurel had no point to this episode. She was completely filller cause Felicity isn't there. The only thing she had/has was that Lyla thing LOL

Also the fact that they once again had her do nothing but kick doors down and acting like that's bad ass while all the others (Oliver/Mia) were doing the actual fighting is hilarious to me. Not only that but she froze like a robot (like in 4x09) when Anatoly shoots that guy behind her. Who writes these scenes or why does she play them like that. So dumb.

Edited November 20, 2019 by olicityfan25

[apinknightmare]

27 minutes ago, olicityfan25 said:

E2 Laurel had no point to this episode. 

Since they refuse to have her address her past villainy in even a remotely sincerely and non-snarky way, they have to keep driving home the point that she's a very, very, very good girl now and a total hero worthy of being involved in a spinoff, LOL.

[tv echo]

Oliver: "Well, this isn't the future! This is months after I was heartbroken right before I left (To William) that I couldn't get you on the phone at your grandparents. (To Mia) So I walked into your room to look at you one last time, and you looked back at me from your crib."

This line broke my heart. 😢

Anatoly (to William): "I hope you do not think badly of me. You were little, and I was on the wrong side of history."

Mia (to E2 Laurel): "You're the Black Canary. All I've ever heard are stories about how great you are. In the future, you even save me once like it was nothing."

I was waiting for E2 Laurel/Black Siren to apologize to William for her role in helping Adrian Chase kidnap him and his bio mom, Samantha, which led to Samantha's death on Lian Yu.

But then it occurred to me that maybe William and Mia don't know that E2 Laurel is E2 Laurel and that maybe they think she's E1 Laurel. As far as Star City knows, E1 Laurel came back alive and started working as the District Attorney again. So that's the history that they know about. It was also a curious thing for Mia to call E2 Laurel "Black Canary," considering she knows Dinah as Black Canary in the future.

I believe that this is the first time that E2 Laurel has been called Black Canary (and not Black Siren) by anyone on the show.

Oh no, Anatoly and Oliver no longer have matching Bratva tattoos!

Edited November 20, 2019 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

4 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Mia was annoying again... Adult William is great.. Daddy Oliver is the best.. How is it oliver's fault that Mia didn't know William..

She sees it as his fault because everything in her life changed the second he left to go with the Monitor, and that one decision had ripple effects that spanned her whole life. She's never really gotten to express those feelings to the guy who in her mind caused them, so...now she is.

[DeadZeus]

The ring the bell scene kinda pissed me off...

Oliver just sits there watching not even TRYING to escape...

Isn't escaping from that position 100% his thing? Exact position how he escaped in S1 pilot and S5 first episode? Then he goes ahead and does it much later... Why not earlier to stop the possible shot?

What the hell?

Edited November 20, 2019 by DeadZeus

[tennisgurl]

17 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Oh, and I don't think there's ever been another character in the Arrowverse about who people say "you've definitely changed" as much as with E2 Laurel.

Honestly, I half expect them to start having people stopping to stare directly at the camera and say to the audience "no really, she has super changed you guys she is the best hero ever now no question please watch our spin-off!" just so that we all get how CHANGED she is. Maybe a little more showing and not telling, huh show? And BS must have an amazing PR team in the future if all Mia has heard about her is  what an amazing hero she is and not even a peep about her years of unrepentant villainy. 

Anyway, other than all of that, I loved this episode. The family feels were strong in this one, I love watching Oliver interacting with grown up Mia and William, and his grief at having to miss their childhoods and them knowing about his dark side was just dripping off the screen at every turn, SA is absolutely killing it this season! We also get fun uncle Anatoly, and I am so happy that he and Oliver are in a good place again, their friend break up was one of the saddest parts of that whole season! Anatoly would be the best kind of fun uncle, and of course he clicks with Mia and William instantly, just like they're dad. I also love that he apologized for what he did when he last saw kid William, which is way more than what many former villains do *looks at BS*, and that William accepted it. And he knows Russian now! I know that William grew up having issues with Oliver, but I like to think that maybe William learned Russian to feel closer to his father, knowing that he had a long history with that country and that language, for good and for bad. I totally understood Oliver wanting to protect his kids, even knowing how capable they are, and I am glad that they all ended up on the mission together.  Mia is often frustrating, but she is hot headed and stubborn in ways that I can understand and that remind me a lot of Oliver, and I love seeing them bonding. Plus, some solid fight scenes this week!

The montage with Mia and Oliver training was great, especially his growing concern that she knows so little about knives! Next up will be a cooking training montage I assume. 

I would totally have just watched Oliver telling William and Mia stories about his past, everything about their interactions are wonderful and fascinating to me. I also always love seeing William undercover, he really has a gift! And seeing him hacking everything with no issues fills my heart with happiness, Felicity would be so proud! Just, maybe dont lead with the story about losing your tattoo Oliver, that story is just super depressing.

I always love Anatolys reactions to all of the weird stuff that he ends up dealing with when Oliver is around. He is always just like "Well thats weird, but ok, who wants extra vodka?" and then says something snarky. Loved them hugging it out, Anatoly remains one of the few people that can consistently make Oliver laugh, I am so happy we got to hang out with him again before the show ends. In general, I am enjoying this field trip through Oliver's past, its a great way to both celebrate the shows history, and for Oliver to find closure for all that he has been through. 

Some of Black Sirens snark actually did work for me this week, and her jokes about the Monitors poor fashion sense always tickle me. And she not only didnt betray Oliver, but let Diggle and Oliver know what is going on and that Lyla is working for him. Although now even more problems are arising! Oh Lyla, what have you done?! I have to imagine that she thinks she is doing the right thing, but what is happening here? 

[tv echo]

As much as I've become a KM fan since she joined Arrow, I've grown to adore BL - and he was one of the best parts of this episode...

Edited November 20, 2019 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

45 minutes ago, DeadZeus said:

The ring the bell scene kinda pissed me off...

Oliver just sits there watching not even TRYING to escape...

Isn't escaping from that position 100% his thing? Exact position how he escaped in S1 pilot and S5 first episode? Then he goes ahead and does it much later... Why not earlier to stop the possible shot?

What the hell?

Oliver was trying to get out but the main captor dude told him that they tied his thumbs, that's why he couldn't bust out as quickly as he normally does. He was working to get enough slack to get out of that while Mia was fighting the guys to ring the bell. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by apinknightmare

[Mellowyellow]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

As much as I've become a KM fan since she joined Arrow, I've grown to adore BL - and he was one of the best parts of this episode...

Ben Lewis needs a huge role in the new spin off or his own show. It's a joy to watch him. 

I could watch the Queen siblings clean their house for an entire episode. They have excellent chemistry and are so amusing.

[Josh371982]

7 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Mia was annoying again... Adult William is great.. Daddy Oliver is the best.. How is it oliver's fault that Mia didn't know William.. That's on felicity.. Laurel gave good advice and kudos on her calling out the pity party Mia was throwing 

Yes we get Mia cant win with you. Yet Laurel can even though she has no right spouting advice to Mia and Mia kissing her ass was sickening given BS once tried to kill her Parents and helped killWilliam's mom not to mention the people she killed for fun Cause we are all to forget all the horrid things BS has done

Edited November 20, 2019 by Josh371982

[Josh371982]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

As much as I've become a KM fan since she joined Arrow, I've grown to adore BL - and he was one of the best parts of this episode...

I adored this moment 

[UNOSEZ]

38 minutes ago, Josh371982 said:

Yes we get Mia cant win with you. Yet Laurel can even though she has no right spouting advice to Mia and Mia kissing her ass was sickening given BS once tried to kill her Parents and helped killWilliam's mom not to mention the people she killed for fun Cause we are all to forget all the horrid things BS has done

Laurel is a horrible murderer.. Ollie's killed tons of ppl... Ras al ghoul has bodies on top of bodies.. No idea how many ppl Thea and Sarah lance have ended.. Point is those characters didn't annoy me.. And if we can forgive captain Sara for being a cold blooded killer who changed her ways I guess we can do so for her dopplesister.. Mia is a bland character with a bad attitude  full of tough girl cliches and her only saving grace is she's Ollie and felicity's kid.. She's not a leader.. Not a team player.. Overly confident in her skills.. Reckless. I could keep going this character based on what I've seen.. If she wasn't Olicity spawn.. Would be dragged on the internets...  Maybe they fix her in time for the spinoff 

[ComicFan777]

29 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

She's not a leader.. Not a team player.. Overly confident in her skills.. Reckless. I could keep going this character based on what I've seen.. If she wasn't Olicity spawn.. Would be dragged on the internets...  Maybe they fix her in time for the spinoff 

A lot of these qualities can also be said to be Oliver's qualities when he first started out.  Nobody starts off as a full-fledged superhero.  They grow into it and earn the title.  I don't see why Mia is expected to be a flawless, full-fledged hero from the start.  I'm here for the journey.

[Mellowyellow]

Laurel killed a father when Cayden James told her it was unnecessary. She also killed a woman for her shoes. Something about liking to hear people scream.

Have we ever seen Sara, Thea or Oliver cackle as they murder someone for fun? Did I miss the episode?

Laurel is also completely irrelevant (and played by an actress who has horrific acting skills at that) and only shoe horned into the show because KC is going to cling onto CW as the only avenue of employment. 

So yeah..... Mia ain't the one that needs fixing. 

[UNOSEZ]

14 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

A lot of these qualities can also be said to be Oliver's qualities when he first started out.  Nobody starts off as a full-fledged superhero.  They grow into it and earn the title.  I don't see why Mia is expected to be a flawless, full-fledged hero from the start.  I'm here for the journey.

That is true.. And ur right nobody starts off perfect.. But Oliver also listened.. He had Slade and shadow on lian yu.. He had Katana when he was working for waller.. Hell he even listened to anatoly some when he was bratva... And once he was the hood he had Diggle and did he always listen.. No.. But he did sometimes... Mia wouldn't even listen to Connor and Zoe.. Who both had more experience than her.. Let alone her disregarding things Oliver tells her... And again its about the journey.. But other characters with far less glaring problems were introduced and were almost immediately disliked.. Usually if a character is this lone-wolfy they have some skill or something that sets them apart.. I haven't seen it with Mia... Thankfully the show at least got her to be somewhat self-awareness this week in her chat with Laurel so maybe progress 

16 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Have we ever seen Sara, Thea or Oliver cackle as they murder someone for fun?

Can't say that I have... But all 4 have still cold-blooded murdered ppl.. And not one or two.. Bodies.. Not accidentally.. Not heat of the moment.. Str8 up murder.. Ppl they didn't need to murder ppl who coulda been knocked out or whatever... I'm not really excusing laurel... I'm just saying murderers on this show can change.. Ppl are angry about the ppl laurel killed not that she killed ppl.. And for me it'd be kinda hypocritical to stay mad at laurel if I'm good with the rest of em... And I am

[BkWurm1]

6 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Laurel killed a father when Cayden James told her it was unnecessary. She also killed a woman for her shoes. Something about liking to hear people scream.

Have we ever seen Sara, Thea or Oliver cackle as they murder someone for fun?

This is what makes IMO BS a failed character even though I really enjoyed her last year with Felicity and most of the time like her snark this year.  She was never just someone that killed for "business" reasons.  She killed for entertainment. For ease even when no one felt she needed to.  

 Her sudden flip to being disgusted when Diaz was doing the exact same thing, rang false but more than that, without having her acknowledge who she was, how am I supposed to accept she who she is supposed to become? 

I do buy that BS likes being praised for her deeds and I even found it in character for her to give up the chance to see her sister, niece, mother , partner the Green Arrow, or the other billions of people to secure her place in history.  But why couldn't they have let her at least once acknowledge anyone beyond just killing Vince?.  He might have been her most in her face kill, (since she literally had to look him in the face as she melted his brain) but even in  this episode, Oliver acknowledges that he did MANY bad things.  Why couldn't BS have expressed remorse for multiple reason? It would have made her multiple confirmations of "redemptions" actually have weight.  And probably because it doesn't, they keep just telling the audience every few episodes, yeah, she's totally good now!

[way2interested]

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Why couldn't BS have expressed remorse for multiple reason? 

She called herself "flawed" when talking to Mia so for a second I though it actually was going to go in that direction, but it was couched in a "all of us on the team are flawed, including me, so don't beat yourself up," so I just sighed again at the wasted potential. 

[apinknightmare]

14 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I do buy that BS likes being praised for her deeds and I even found it in character for her to give up the chance to see her sister, niece, mother , partner the Green Arrow, or the other billions of people to secure her place in history. 

Me too - it's remarkably consistent characterization and I'm mostly sure it's an accident, LOL.

14 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

But why couldn't they have let her at least once acknowledge anyone beyond just killing Vince?.  He might have been her most in her face kill, (since she literally had to look him in the face as she melted his brain) but even in  this episode, Oliver acknowledges that he did MANY bad things.  Why couldn't BS have expressed remorse for multiple reason? It would have made her multiple confirmations of "redemptions" actually have weight.  And probably because it doesn't, they keep just telling the audience every few episodes, yeah, she's totally good now!

I agree. Acknowledgement and sincere regret would go a long way for me. It would certainly make all these people being all the way up her ass for ~changing and being a hero easier to listen to. I'm positive we're not done with that - I bet we have at least two more coming next week.

Edited November 21, 2019 by apinknightmare

[Josh371982]

13 hours ago, ComicFan777 said:

A lot of these qualities can also be said to be Oliver's qualities when he first started out.  Nobody starts off as a full-fledged superhero.  They grow into it and earn the title.  I don't see why Mia is expected to be a flawless, full-fledged hero from the start.  I'm here for the journey.

Exactly. Agreed.