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Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

OnceSane

By OnceSane
in General Hospital

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Culture Check: How can we discuss a character's or actor's appearance without objectifying them? How can we express likes or dislikes and still respect an individual's humanity or be mindful that a character represents a person someone else might relate to or identify with?

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Winston Wolfe
Winston Wolfe

See...that's where a good writer (who doesn't have to kiss Mo's arse) has Nik saying "Do you not get that I'm a Cassadine?" My Grandfather was staging vendettas and trying to freeze the whole planet y

ciarra
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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)
32 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

I, thankfully have never been in this situation but for those who have, would you empty out the nursery the day after the death?  Every stitch of everything gone immediately?  what if they get another surrogate and get pregnant again within a couple of months?  They have to go out and rebuy everything they just threw away?  

It depends on the person whether they want to get rid of everything right away or hold on (to hope). TJ was wrong trying to make Molly behave like he does. Zero marks for empathy.

ETA: I  wouldn't be surprised if TJ decides to give up having a baby with Molly altogether now. It's not his fertility that's the problem.

Edited by statsgirl
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Sake614

Sake614

6 hours ago, ciarra said:

When was she even around Sonny's meds to do that?  <rme>

Donna said they were in Avery’s overnight bag. How they got there is the mystery. Ava wouldn’t t have put the pills in her daughter’s bag and since they were placebo, she wanted Sonny to take them. Did Pilar mistakenly put Sonny’s pills in Avery’s bag? That doesn’t make sense either. 

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Bringonthedrama

Bringonthedrama

(edited)
13 hours ago, Daisy said:

  quite frankly, regardless of how she feels about Sonny, the fact that Kristina was about to be  a mother. the fact that her father could beat up someone almost to death at a wedding should pretty much have her think "Is this what I would want for my sister? or MY kid?" and she should be on Ava's side. not all. "how could you have me testify the truth about my scum bag dad

Okay I'm going to defend Kristina here because of Ava's intentions and history. Ava subpoenaed Kristina in order to present the narrative in court that Sonny is nothing but a violent thug who can't be trusted with Avery's safety and that she - Ava - is the loving, stable/non-violent parent who should have custody of Avery. Kristina was calling Ava out on the hypocrisy - "I will also tell the truth that you murdered Connie Falconeri in cold blood and messed with my brother's bio-polar medication." It's true that Ava did not directly kill Morgan, but her actions certainly contributed to his death. 

On that note, Ava lied to Molly's face that she would never harm a child. By switching out Morgan's bipolar meds for placebos in an insanely reckless attempt to get him out of Kiki's life, she did harm someone's (young adult) child.  And by blackmailing the doc/pharmacist however many weeks ago to change out Sonny's low dose bipolar meds for placebos, she has also endangered her own daughter. She says she wants him to have a public meltdown to prove he is unfit for custody. Well, you can't control when and where an ugly bi-polar episode occurs. Before they even get to family court, he could have some horrible bi-polar violent incident at home or elsewhere while Avery is with him, and she gets hurt or killed. 

ETA: I have knowledge of this topic as an adult child of a parent who is both bi-polar and an alcoholic. 

Edited by Bringonthedrama
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CeChase

CeChase

(edited)

Ava is definitely not a victim.  The way she hissed at Molly yesterday "it's Kristina's fault".  She really is a snake, but I love how Maura plays that.  She's so good, but that doesn't change the fact that Ava is a murdering snake.  And I don't feel sorry for people who got away with murder, or multiple murders, and end  up getting busted for something they didn't actually do.  I'm with that.  

Edit, even if you think it was Kristina's fault, which I kinda do, that was a snake in that cage.  And the snake hissed. 

Edited by CeChase
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Daisy

Daisy

(edited)
11 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Okay I'm going to defend Kristina here because of Ava's intentions and history. Ava subpoenaed Kristina in order to present the narrative in court that Sonny is nothing but a violent thug who can't be trusted with Avery's safety and that she - Ava - is the loving, stable/non-violent parent who should have custody of Avery.

and

 

3 hours ago, CeChase said:

Ava is definitely not a victim.

I wasn't saying she was a victim or anything. I'm just looking this strictly at Kristina's side. even if you think Ava was being a hypocrite because of her history (and acknowledging that having Sonny having zero lithium in his system was a danger to Avery and Donna etc)

I'm not saying Ava should win (or Kristina should side with Ava) because Ava's "Mommy". I"m saying regardless of the fact that she doesn't like Ava and Sonny is her father Kristina should be thinking about this like a mother  [or someone who should be in deep nesting right now]. 
 

In a vacuum, Ava and Sonny are basically two sides of the same coin - cruel, manipulative and vindictive but when push comes to shove - Ava will always put Avery's safety first. [i will acknowledge the fact that being off his meds did put Avery in danger because you never know when you'll have an attack). When Ava's stalking became more dangerous, Ava not only gave up Avery (to Carly which had to have sucked) - she was going to leave town and be away from Avery further. No hesitation.  Sonny never does that. He'll send them to the "island" and hire more bodyguards but he never puts his children first. (and let's never forget, Sonny dove to protect Kate not Michael when he saw a gun).

Kristina could air out all of Ava's dirty laundry (go for it). but to not even have any come to Jesus moment about what Sonny truly is again as a mother to be is crazy. The only difference between him beating up Dex at the wedding is that Sonny usually does his torture in private (so yeah no one would know he had Dex on a meat hook ready to be carved up). if she was thinking about changing her surrogate agreement because Tolly might break up and what would happen to the baby why isn't she thinking okay my dad is really not the most stable of people even when he's ON his meds, is this the healthiest thing for Avery?

If i was a mom to be (or at least in full nesting mode)  - no matter how much Ava was twisting the situation that is what was  - all of that would be in my head. (I'm not sure if Kristina had that "what if" if ever, to be fair) - but that's where i was going of it. not "BE TEAM AVA because i like her or anything" but more "Be Team Ava, because she's got kinda a point." i hope that's a bit more clear. 

 

3 hours ago, CeChase said:

Edit, even if you think it was Kristina's fault, which I kinda do, that was a snake in that cage.  And the snake hissed. 

boy did she lol

Edited by Daisy
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statsgirl

statsgirl

31 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Im not saying that Ava should win because she's "mommy" or something but more of - regardless of the fact that Sonny's her father, Kristina should be thinking as a mother.  Ava and Sonny can both be cruel and vindictive, but  in a vacuum, Ava will put Avery first.

Kristina is who she is because Alexis was her primary parent, not Sonny.

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ffwbe

ffwbe

3 hours ago, CeChase said:

Ava is definitely not a victim.  The way she hissed at Molly yesterday "it's Kristina's fault".  She really is a snake, but I love how Maura plays that.  She's so good, but that doesn't change the fact that Ava is a murdering snake.  And I don't feel sorry for people who got away with murder, or multiple murders, and end  up getting busted for something they didn't actually do.  I'm with that.  

Edit, even if you think it was Kristina's fault, which I kinda do, that was a snake in that cage.  And the snake hissed. 

Kristina is far from blameless, she shouldn’t have shown up at Ava’s hotel room, but the way Ava is acting isn’t exactly scoring any points from me. She didn’t care that Kristina fell and was only trying to cover her own tracks and had absolutely no sympathy for Molly losing her child in that tragic way. I dint think she’s ever been quite the “good” person and she isn’t exactly self sacrificing but she’s been coming off like a straight up sociopath. 

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norahs99

norahs99

15 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

Kristina is far from blameless, she shouldn’t have shown up at Ava’s hotel room, but the way Ava is acting isn’t exactly scoring any points from me. She didn’t care that Kristina fell and was only trying to cover her own tracks and had absolutely no sympathy for Molly losing her child in that tragic way. I dint think she’s ever been quite the “good” person and she isn’t exactly self sacrificing but she’s been coming off like a straight up sociopath. 

I'm not sure it's fair to say that Ava doesn't care that Kristina fell. But I think she's aware enough to know that no matter what, she would be blamed because she's THE EVUL.

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Daisy

Daisy

19 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Kristina is who she is because Alexis was her primary parent, not Sonny.

yeup. exactly. but again the show has its fallback. Sonny isn't "bad" because he's having an episode. he is always there making pancakes for Avery. pretty much another Ward Cleaver here folks. 

3 minutes ago, norahs99 said:

I'm not sure it's fair to say that Ava doesn't care that Kristina fell. But I think she's aware enough to know that no matter what, she would be blamed because she's THE EVUL.

this is the way i see it. and right now everyone is going to "she pushed" so she's in *defend* mode. again it's not helping her because it's just making her look more guilty. 

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Daisy

Daisy

Anna: "What is the nature of your relationship with Ava Jerome."  - answer. None of your business. moving on. and also Anna. shut up. John spoke some truth, calling her an apologist for Sonny [and Valentin. so yeah shut up Anna]. "Do you know how many law officials crashed against the rock that's sonny?" 

Donna: "am i in trouble for eating Daddy's vitamins?" Sonny: nope. Me: this is why Donna ate said vitamins. my mom would have given me what for. 

Portia: shrieking and raving at Heather who is clearly in police custody, hancuffed and in a wheelchair. that's real hospital care for you. lol Trina basically says the same thing. hahah. Also Portia - when Ryan Chamberlain was a patient in the hospital, Felicia wasn't a patient care advocate so again shut up. 

I feel sorry for Kristina Wagner in that scene because of her son :(

I'm seeing John being set up to be The Evul. 

so there's no picture of Ava PUSHING Kristina but everyone is just ignoring that. ahuh mhm.  

 

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dubbel zout

dubbel zout

I don't think Donna needed to be grounded or whatever the age-appropriate alternative punishment might be, but she didn't even get a stern talking-to. She not only took someone else's meds, she "didn't want to share" them. No one seemed concerned that they were in her bag in the first place.

How is Wagger's luggage being in Ava's suite relevant? The bag didn't push Kristina out the window. In fact, it doesn't matter what Kristina tripped over.

Good for Trina for telling Portia to get a grip about Heather.

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ciarra

ciarra

25 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

How is Wagger's luggage being in Ava's suite relevant? The bag didn't push Kristina out the window. In fact, it doesn't matter what Kristina tripped over.

People might find out that a grown woman was having sex.  With an FBI agent.  A "vindictive" FBI agent.

If Wagger's bag wasn't there, then the baby would still be alive, so it's his and Ava's fault.  Just like if Nina had told the truth about Sonny in Nixon Falls, Carly wouldn't have been obligated to go to the mob meeting, and wouldn't have had to spend a night in lockup before having the charges dropped.  Nina's fault. 

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Sake614

Sake614

OMG the look on that baby’s face when Kristina was talking to her was UCG. If the kid was old enough to talk, she would’ve asked Wtf krisinta was smoking lol!

So now the whole town is 100% sure Ava pushed Kristina out the window, and Anna is probing Jagger about his relationship with Ava. Yeah he’s being incredibly stupid about Ava, but  I’m at least glad he told Anna where to go and what to do when she got there. 

so nice to see Jason is back to being Sonny’s enforcer and Carly is calling the police commissioner, demanding that she drop everything and come to Carly’s house, where she is promptly informed that Ava switched Sonny’s meds. So now that Sonny is back on lithium, all is forgiven and he’s the patron saint of pc again. 🙄.  I just can’t with this show.

nice to see Felicia talking to Kristina. Not sure about her talk with Portia though. Yes Portia is being irrational but as long as Heather gets the treatment she needs, there’s no reason for her to stay longer than absolutely necessary. I can’t imagine any hospital is eager to keep a convicted murderer on site for very long. Glad that Trina called out her mother and told her to act professionally. Screaming like a banshee is not a good look for the COS of a hospital.

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tessaray

tessaray

I have to give Kate Mansi credit for the last few episodes but am dreading the shift to vindictive mobster's daughter (at least that's the way the preview read). Ava didn't push her*, though obviously by the time anyone acknowledges it, it'll probably be too late. I hate this change back to Sonny and his crew feeling justified in any illegal thing they do. 

* Yes, Ava does share some blame but I'm guessing odds are good that we're on a "who killed Ava Jerome" path and I'm not looking forward to it. 

But good for Trina calling out her mother's hysteria at the sight of Heather. Portia needs therapy. 

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dubbel zout

dubbel zout

6 minutes ago, tessaray said:

I'm guessing odds are good that we're on a "who killed Ava Jerome" path and I'm not looking forward to it. 

One of the problems with a "who killed Ava Jerome" story is that she's become so isolated that who in Port Charles will care? Maybe Wagger, but nearly the entire town hates him too. Trina? She'll get condescending pats on the head for being naive about Ava's faults. Nina might have a few moments of sadness, but they'll be a few moments.

I think it would be better for Ava to grab Avery and go on the lam for a few months. Wind up all of the loose ends of the Pikeman story—including revealing that it was Valentin who messed with Sonny's meds—and bring Ava back after that.

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tessaray

tessaray

(edited)
17 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

it would be better for Ava to grab Avery and go on the lam for a few months. Wind up all of the loose ends of the Pikeman story—including revealing that it was Valentin who messed with Sonny's meds—and bring Ava back after that.

It would be better. Ava should have access to some of Nik's Cassadine resources and would make an excellent recurring villain. 

Eta: at least, I would prefer that to her being the town pariah for years on end.

Edited by tessaray
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TVbitch

TVbitch

Um, Kristina has been awake for some time now and is having conversations with  family and hospital staff. Are the police ever going to get around to asking her what happened? I guess Sonny's mob photos were enough proof to close the case for Anna, plus she's busy running to Carly who has the gall to want JUSTICE for anything. 

Looks like Kristina is gonna go the mobby dark side. And John is swirling the drain with Ava. Next up, baby Ace spits peas in Laura's face and babbles at her to back off Sonny!

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Cheyanne11

Cheyanne11

OMG, I cracked up at the giant "5 lbs 2 oz" baby in Kristina's dream.  

On another note, I cannot express how pleased I am that the Sonny/Carly/Jason powerhouse is back together.  That's really the heart that the shows been missing. /sarcasm

Portia again being the bastion of professionalism.  Good lord, someone get Terri out of her office and let her do some co-COS'ing.  

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Liddy52

Liddy52

1 minute ago, ciarra said:

What will Laura and Kevin do with Ace when they go to the Broadway show?  Drop him off at the kennel?  I can't see traveling to NYC, seeing a show and returning, and expecting a babysitter to look after him until 3 a.m.?

They can just drop him off at the Quartermain day and night care! He can join the rest of the children from Port Charles there. 

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Bringonthedrama

Bringonthedrama

18 minutes ago, Sake614 said:

It’s the next morning and blaze still hasn’t seen Kristina??? I thought she loved her? Does she even know the baby died? Or that Kristina almost had a hysterectomy? Did Natalia Kidnap her?

She knows the baby died because Jordan called her to let her know that Kristina made it through surgery. There was no reaction shot to Blaze hearing the news. Jordan called before Kristina ended up needing additional surgery. 

I think it's more like Blaze "loves" her - she loves the way Kristina makes her feel about herself as a gay woman and artist. Are Blaze and Kristina supposed to be the same age? It's unclear to me. Blaze doesn't strike me as being good for Kristina; she comes off as immature esp. still letting her mother run her life. Whenever the subject of these two being a committed couple in love comes up, I think - oh really? Where are their favorite date spots? Oh, wait, they don't have any because the only time they've been a couple in public together was the BLQ + Chase wedding. What are their plans for their future? Oh wait, they haven't addressed that at all. What are their goals? Same answer. 

Kristina used to describe her sexuality as fluid after she had been in relationships with guys and then had the affair with the woman professor.  Blaze comes along and identifies firmly as gay. So now Kristina has to be gay too and tolerate bigoted behavior as conditions of being in a relationship with Blaze? That's not okay. I think Kristina deserves better than this.  

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Sake614

Sake614

3 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Kristina used to describe her sexuality as fluid after she had been in relationships with guys and then had the affair with the woman professor.  Blaze comes along and identifies firmly as gay. So now Kristina has to be gay too and tolerate bigoted behavior as conditions of being in a relationship with Blaze? That's not okay. I think Kristina deserves better than this.  

As a straight woman, I genuinely don’t know but is it possible that as she’s grown, and now is in a committed relationship with a woman, that she’s decided she only wants to be with women? 

iCAM that she shouldn’t have to put up with Natalia’s bigotry and that Blaze needs to take a stand. Blaze certainly seems very timid in that regard. I get that she loves her mother but this whole story has been horribly written. From the jump, it’s been all Ava’s fault for leaking the recording when the brunt of the anger should have been at Natalia for expressing those views in the first place. 

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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

How did lightning ⚡️ not strike Anna DEAD as she questioned Jagger and stood there with a straight face when he challenged what she did with Valentin? Her ASS needs to be fired ASAP. But now that won’t happen, and Jagger will be shown to be dirty.

Ahhhh, and heeeeeeee’s baaaaaaack-Stone-faced, unblinking Jason.

FUCK OFF, Scotty! I knew he was thisclose to telling Alexis he still needed to question Kristina.

Garbage. Return of Garbage.

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nilyank

nilyank

(edited)
1 hour ago, DanaK said:

My prediction on Ava’s fate is that she’ll either have Cates help her escape to parts unknown or she’ll make a deal with Sonny to trade what she knows about who (originally) messed with his meds for freedom out of town but she’ll have to stay away for good (without Avery)

She is going to blame Jagger as she has no loyalty to anyone. By convincing him to make the pharmacist disappear from town, she is going to shift the blame on him.

Also a duffle bag is not a dangerous item that people would instantly think it would cause people to fly through windows. Jagger should not listen to Ava's nonsense as if she is protecting him if the PCPD discover that Kristina tripped on his bag.

All this time, Ava has no idea that Valentin started all this and he is conveniently out of town. Thanks Anna.

The baby used for Kristina's dream looks like the little girl playing Donna.

Speaking of Kristina, I guess that she has totally forgotten when she accidentally ran a pregnant Claudia off the road. Whereby the unborn baby (her half brother) died. And she let Michael then Alexis take the blame for it.

But now she wants Ava to pay even though she knows Ava didn't push her.

Edited by nilyank
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ciarra

ciarra

3 hours ago, Cheyanne11 said:

OMG, I cracked up at the giant "5 lbs 2 oz" baby in Kristina's dream.

That "newborn" actor baby probably took a smoke break between takes.

3 minutes ago, nilyank said:

Speaking of Kristina, I guess that she has totally forgotten when she accidentally ran off the road a pregnant Claudia off the road.

Hey, I forgot about that.

Why hasn't anyone (family or PCPD) asked Kristina what happened? (Not that she'll remember.)

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Bringonthedrama

Bringonthedrama

38 minutes ago, nilyank said:

Speaking of Kristina, I guess that she has totally forgotten when she accidentally ran a pregnant Claudia off the road. Whereby the unborn baby (her half brother) died. And she let Michael then Alexis take the blame for it.

But now she wants Ava to pay even though she knows Ava didn't push her.

The situations are not comparable. Kristina was a scared teenager and it was an accident; I don't even think she knew Claudia was in the other car. 

Ava is a grown woman who got aggressive and grabbed Kristina when their argument didn't go her way. She was trying to intimidate a very pregnant woman. That is a deliberate act. Kristina tripped because she was stepping back to get away from Ava's grasp. The last pic Brick took was of Ava's fingers aimed toward the ceiling, when she lost her grip on Kristina's arm as her body fell toward the window. While she did not throw or push Kristina through the window, she absolutely contributed to the tragedy. I agree with what Molly said to Ava.

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graight

graight

I guess Heather changed her mind.  She told Laura (?) she belonged in jail and not to make a case out of it.  She seemed very interested in Scotty's proposal today.

All the people going to visit Ava in jail reminds me of the scene in Airplane where the people all line up to slap the hysterical passenger.

You tell her, John Cates!  He should have quoted our new VP nominee, "Anna, mind your own damn business!!"

 

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kitmerlot1213

kitmerlot1213

12 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

How did lightning ⚡️ not strike Anna DEAD as she questioned Jagger and stood there with a straight face when he challenged what she did with Valentin? Her ASS needs to be fired ASAP. But now that won’t happen, and Jagger will be shown to be dirty.

I'm going to enjoy watching the scenes where it's revealed that Valentin's behind the pill switcheroo--I hope that level of cruelty snaps Anna out of whatever weird sympathy she has for Val and she doubles down on getting him behind bars.  That is the only way she can be redeemed.

But she wasn't wrong with what she said to John, that he needs to dial back his anger.  If he truly wants Sonny to be sent to prison, then he needs to do things by the book and that means not listening to Ava Jerome and helping cover up her knowledge of the pills switch and how she knows the pharmacist.

KM has never been a warm actress--her version of Abby on Days was cold and her version of Kristina is lacking in warmth.  Her eyes are filled with tears and her voice is cracking as she talks about the baby, but it all feels fake, like she's literally playing a part.

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perkie1968

perkie1968

23 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I'm going to enjoy watching the scenes where it's revealed that Valentin's behind the pill switcheroo--I hope that level of cruelty snaps Anna out of whatever weird sympathy she has for Val and she doubles down on getting him behind bars

I'm pretty sure JPS is gone so that means either no one mentions Valentin since he can't be found to be punished or all the blame falls on him because he can't be found to be punished and it all gets swept under the rug.  

GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

51 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I'm going to enjoy watching the scenes where it's revealed that Valentin's behind the pill switcheroo--I hope that level of cruelty snaps Anna out of whatever weird sympathy she has for Val and she doubles down on getting him behind bars.

So him switching a wannabe-Michael Corleone-mob guy is much much worse than being the head of a gun running and smuggling organization? One that she got actual proof of, but decided to ignore because his daughter neeeeeeeeeded him? Alrighty then.

27 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

I'm pretty sure JPS is gone

He's recurring and on his regular summer vacation, I think? Something that Finola decided not to do, which she really should have after she let Valentin escape. I haven't seen anything in the media thread that he's left the show.

When he does, it will be revealed he was also a double agent, and that what he did to Mooby was what needed to be done to neutralize him. And Anna will be so happy and take him back.

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kitmerlot1213

kitmerlot1213

20 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

So him switching a wannabe-Michael Corleone-mob guy is much much worse than being the head of a gun running and smuggling organization? One that she got actual proof of, but decided to ignore because his daughter neeeeeeeeeded him? Alrighty then.

I do think deliberately setting out to sabotage someone's mental health has an insidiousness to it that's deeply unsettling.  There's an evilness to it that can't be overlooked and I hope Anna realizes it.  And yes, Val should have been arrested for being behind a gun running para-military operation but the show decided otherwise.  I wish I knew why the writers are so determined to make law enforcement behave so lawlessly.

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Daisy

Daisy

1 hour ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

But she wasn't wrong with what she said to John, that he needs to dial back his anger.  If he truly wants Sonny to be sent to prison, then he needs to do things by the book and that means not listening to Ava Jerome and helping cover up her knowledge of the pills switch and how she knows the pharmacist.

yeah. i think if this was said by someone not Anna it might have actually had more weight. a LOT of people who had this dream of putting Sonny away has ended up being just as corrupt or ended up broken and Sonny keeps walking away. 

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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

18 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I wish I knew why the writers are so determined to make law enforcement behave so lawlessly.

Because Frank the asshole, made it so problematic for Mulcahey, he (Mulcahey) ended up quitting, just when we finally got that the law could be the good guys.

Sorry, if Mooby were a good guy, or let's say, more of a gray character, like Luke, then I could see Valentin messing with his meds as worse. But he's a FUCKING MOB kingpin, so no sympathy from me, and I see being head of Pikeman as worse.

And my dreams of Mac and Robert drop kicking Anna's ass over covering up for Valentin die a horrible death. Though maybe it should have been Mac, because back in the day, Robert, covered for Anna's ass when he discovered she was a double agent and worked for the DVX.

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Culture Check: How can we discuss a character's or actor's appearance without objectifying them? How can we express likes or dislikes and still respect an individual's humanity or be mindful that a character represents a person someone else might relate to or identify with?

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