Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[Artsda]

Wow Carly as her matron of honor. 

Nina grovels to these losers too much blocking her calls or Michael not wanting to talk. She should say ok then forget the donor, let her die. 

Poor little Elizabeth knew what she was doing. Finn's excuses and blaming all on Nik is ridiculous. 

Shocking Nikolas wasn't there and he's alive. 

[Melgaypet]

Oh my god, Nikolas is alive!?

I need my fainting couch, for I am overcome with the vapors.

[Semiglued]

50 minutes ago, Artsda said:

Wow Carly as her matron of honor. 

Nina grovels to these losers too much blocking her calls or Michael not wanting to talk. She should say ok then forget the donor, let her die. 

Poor little Elizabeth knew what she was doing. Finn's excuses and blaming all on Nik is ridiculous. 

Shocking Nikolas wasn't there and he's alive. 

I almost wish Nina was the monster they say she is, and that she dangled the donor in front of them like that. The Carly’s are just unbearable. If GH were a normal show this would lead to Liesel forging some sort of peace and relationship btwn Willow and Nina but I don’t even want that anymore. Willow is just so awful that what I want is for Nina to have some improbable late in life pregnancy. Come on Sonny’s sperm are magical, they can do it. 

[SlovakPrincess]

4 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

SERIOUSLY! This is why I will never ever, ever root for Obrecht. I haven't forgotten what she did to Robin, or that her concoction that was going to kill Robin, put Robert in a year long coma.

Yep. I REFUSED to believe Robin was dead, and when we saw that she was alive and unconscious, I remember doing the "I TOLD YOU SO!" to everyone, hee.

Did she ever do anything to redeem herself or apologize to the Scorpio family for all the shit she pulled, especially given that Anna and her loved ones never did anything to warrant Obrecht’s campaign of mayhem against them?

Or is it just crocodile tears because now she’s the one who’s on the receiving end of tragedy?  

Karma’s a bitch, lady.  Oh well.

[Mirabelle]

1 hour ago, Auntie Velvet said:

 

I'm trying to guess why Sonny is leaving Dex out of the [Whatever it's called] operation all of the sudden. Is he on the outs? Was sharing the meal like giving him the kiss of death? Savage!

That dinner was the most romantic thing I've ever seen Dex do and that includes jumping into a dumpster for Joss. I really hope Sonny's next move is to take Dex to his island. 

As for why Sonny is leaving Dex out of that shipment deal, I assume Sonny doesn't fully trust Dex yet. Dex hasn't proven himself. He's barely adequate as a bodyguard. 

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

7 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Did she ever do anything to redeem herself or apologize to the Scorpio family for all the shit she pulled, especially given that Anna and her loved ones never did anything to warrant Obrecht’s campaign of mayhem against them?

Or is it just crocodile tears because now she’s the one who’s on the receiving end of tragedy?  

Karma’s a bitch, lady.  Oh well.

No.

[Daisy]

10 minutes ago, Semiglued said:

I almost wish Nina was the monster they say she is, and that she dangled the donor in front of them like that. The Carly’s are just unbearable. If GH were a normal show this would lead to Liesel forging some sort of peace and relationship btwn Willow and Nina but I don’t even want that anymore. Willow is just so awful that what I want is for Nina to have some improbable late in life pregnancy. Come on Sonny’s sperm are magical, they can do it. 

I will take Carly's late in life pregnancy aka Donna - loving Nina more than than Carly. I still remember when Donna saw Nina and legit ran into her arms for a hug it was beautiful. 

and I am telling you thats what up.but TJ knows and he would have called willow so we cant even have that. 

Someone on reddit pointed out that it is very telling that even with Willow dying how petty and small these people are.  I 10000 percent agree.  they always have to make snide comments, and talk bad about her it's just pathetic. 

[nilyank]

I thought you guys were kidding.

Dex and Sonny sitting in a table, sharing a very special meal together.

What the...???

So Nikolas "died" on Friday the 13th.

Detective Bennett has had a nice wardrobe so far. Look very nice in that brownish overcoat today.

I hope Liesl is match because it is becoiming ridiculous. She had a donor, and that fell apart. Nina seems like she was going to be a match and she wasn't. They were going to go with the stem cells when Willlow gave birth, but there wasn't enough when she almost hemorrhaged to death.

[Bringonthedrama]

6 hours ago, ciarra said:

Could Liz please bring up to Dr. O, "Remember the time you shot me?".

I would LOVE that!! Not to mention that she shot Elizabeth while she was holding Elizabeth hostage in her own home, with Britt and baby "Ben" (re-named Rocco) because she decided that Britt was entitled to keep the baby created from Britt and Dr. O stealing embryo of Lulu and Dante crime. 

Dr. O is just as entitled as any of the Carlys.

[nilyank]

1 minute ago, Bringonthedrama said:

I would LOVE that!! Not to mention that she shot Elizabeth while she was holding Elizabeth hostage in her own home, with Britt and baby "Ben" (re-named Rocco) because she decided that Britt was entitled to keep the baby created from Britt and Dr. O stealing embryo of Lulu and Dante crime. 

Dr. O is just as entitled as any of the Carlys.

Robin, hold my beer.

Held me prisoner away from Patrick and Emma in a cot in a room so that use my genius for evil my mother's tormentor Faison, put my father in a coma for a year

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Did she ever do anything to redeem herself or apologize to the Scorpio family for all the shit she pulled, especially given that Anna and her loved ones never did anything to warrant Obrecht’s campaign of mayhem against them?

She repeatedly apologized for the things that she's done and said how wrong she was to idolize Faison as she did.

There were some nice scenes between her and Anna, one a drunken one and another where she took Anna to a smashing place to help her get over something (Alexi's death?). They ended agreeing that they will never be friends but appreciating each other's help.

Obrecht will never be a warm lovable figure but unlike many of the characters on the show, she's admitted to her mistakes and apologized for them. She's also lost her only two children as well as her career so there has been retribution for her.

Unlike Sonny, who shot Robin I believe and is still considered the best by Lasura and Robin's mother.

[Steph J]

2 hours ago, Cheyanne11 said:

Of course they are--Willow doesn't have any friends and has been totally swallowed up by the Carlys.  

I can see it now: Willow will be too sick, so Carly will stand in as proxy for the ceremony.

I can't believe how blah this week has been compared to last - that string of episodes that didn't include the Carlys was really a gift.

[Bringonthedrama]

1 hour ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Did she ever do anything to redeem herself or apologize to the Scorpio family for all the shit she pulled, especially given that Anna and her loved ones never did anything to warrant Obrecht’s campaign of mayhem against them?

Or is it just crocodile tears because now she’s the one who’s on the receiving end of tragedy?  

Karma’s a bitch, lady.  Oh well.

No. When someone, I think it was Anna? said she knew what Obrecht was feeling when Nathan died because they mourned "dead" Robin when Faison and Obrecht held Robin captive, Obrecht flatly replied that Robin came back but Nathan wasn't going to. 

Yes, it's because she's on the receiving end. The irony to me of Obrecht slapping Elizabeth and calling her an "enabler" for her actions, is that Obrecht's enabling actions with Faison were indirectly responsible for Nathan getting killed. Had Obrecht not enabled and protected Faison for decades because of her obsessive "Love" for him, Faison would not have been in a position to come out of hiding and shoot Nathan.  Had Elizabeth and Nikolas come forward, maybe the police would have looked for other suspects in the Hook killings. However, it's highly unlikely they could have cornered and arrested crazy Heather before she scratched Britt. It took Alexis doing some investigative journalism work along with Kevin's professional insights as a psychiatrist, with a dash of input from Laura, to zero in on the killer. 

Obrecht has always disliked and never been decent to Elizabeth - not even when Elizabeth was married to Obrecht's "best friend"- and so at a time when the witch is looking for someplace to put all her rage and pain Elizabeth is an easy target.

At the time Obrecht was helping Faison to keep Robin prisoner, her motivation was jealousy of Faison's obsession with Anna. Obrecht considered Anna to be unworthy. Obrecht always looked down upon Anna and anyone whom she did not consider brilliant like herself and Faison. 

I think she shrugged off putting Robert in a coma when the intended victim was Robin. The only time she paid Robert specific attention was when she was furious about being framed for Peter/Heinrich's crimes. Her attitude at the time of Maxie's wedding was  'you're supposed to be the great Robert Scorpio, so you should have figured out Heinrich's lies and crimes already and cleared my name."

28 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

She repeatedly apologized for the things that she's done and said how wrong she was to idolize Faison as she did.

But not to Robin's family, and only decided she was wrong to idolize Faison after he killed their son. Unless it's her, her BFF Franco or someone in her family suffering, she does not care about anyone's pain. She only ever generally acknowledged (usually to Maxie) that she's done things she regrets.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Bringonthedrama

[Asp Burger]

Kidding aside about how it looked like a date, the Dex/Sonny dinner further emphasized for me that a Jason return isn't necessary or desirable.  

Presumably, as long as there's a Sonny, he's going to need a major underling/enforcer/male talk-to, and there can only be one at a time. (Remember the speed with which Zander was kicked to the curb in 2002?) Dex is better in that role now than Jason would be. He's younger, more of a blank slate, thus less predictable. Except for Carly and her brood, everyone besides Sonny that Jason had a vital relationship with had died or had become peripheral in his life. Whether you were Team Liason or Team Jasam 15 years ago, both were over. Jason/Britt, obviously, has been foreclosed too. Most of the Quartermaines are gone. Monica's never on, and probably will go for good if and when Leslie Charleson officially retires. Jason's kids are never on either.  

If this story develops with Dex ultimately becoming Sonny's loyal right hand for real, there's more potential there. I know Steve Burton's diehards will never stop hoping for another return, but the show is well set up now without him. And he may not be worth the expense. His last departure didn't exactly cause plunging ratings. (The ratings weren't great before, and they remained not-great after.) 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Asp Burger

[YaddaYadda]

8 hours ago, nilyank said:

Detective Bennett has had a nice wardrobe so far. Look very nice in that brownish overcoat today.

Detective Bennett has a nice bass-baritone voice that reminds of Barry White. I hope he gets to stay and that he's not just a placeholder for Chase while he gets through the dumbest story arc ever made where the writers refuse to cut their losses and just kill off Linc.

[ffwbe]

I thought “matron of honor” was a title for married women. 

[kitmerlot1213]

13 hours ago, sacrebleu said:

I can't believe anyone finds that character, as written,  appealing as a leading man. 

I know this is in reference to Michael but this also applies to Dex--the actor has a very limited acting ability and zero charisma but we're supposed to believe that Joss is completely enamored of him?  

Re: Liesl, she has admitted to Anna that she let her obsession with Faison get the best of her and led her into making criminally horrible choices and I do think that her losing both her kids is karmic justice for her bad deeds.

[slayer2]

30 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I know this is in reference to Michael but this also applies to Dex--the actor has a very limited acting ability and zero charisma but we're supposed to believe that Joss is completely enamored of him?  

Re: Liesl, she has admitted to Anna that she let her obsession with Faison get the best of her and led her into making criminally horrible choices and I do think that her losing both her kids is karmic justice for her bad deeds.

A) I tried to watch a few scenes with Josslyn and EH's Dex and yikes. Agreed. EM is doing all the heavy lifting and he seems to be giving nothing which is a shame.

B)I have a theory ™️ (the only good Willow)  and it's that they have the same problem with CD as they have with LW. I personally think Chad is a fine actor however I don't feel his wheelhouse is romance, it's family drama. When they brought on Drew (Garrett) as the recast back in the day he wasn't really the right fit for a confused, manipulated teen that was volleyed between Carly and whomever her new Daddy of the week was at random. It worked for the plot and emotionally that Chad was recast to handle the (superdepressing and wholly umnecessary) Pentonville storyline. IMO when you need insecure, hurt and manipulated Chad is the guy. 

However, now as the years progressed and they tried to move him out of that category into leading man material he never made the jump IMO. None of the pairings I've ever seen him in have worked. He doesn't seem to have a sexual bone in his body (no pun intended).

I feel the same way about Laura Wright, where Sarah Brown and Tamara Braun had chemistry with anything that moved both CD and LW seem to have anti-chemistry. Thus the show puts LW in Granny Wars and they butcher and massacre female character's in order to try to fit them into a mold with CD's Michael and as far as I've seen, it never ever works.

And this is why I feel they have the plot of a grown-ass man trying to bring down his father over Mommy issues (which should really be issues over AJ's murder as MB helpfully pointed out). I think the fact that that is his A storyline is almost entirely due to his limitations in romance. I tend to find with soaps that the writers write to what they think the actor's strengths are and unfortunately CD's strength doesn't appear to be romance.

Edited March 2, 2023 by slayer2

[SlovakPrincess]

22 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

  

Re: Liesl, she has admitted to Anna that she let her obsession with Faison get the best of her and led her into making criminally horrible choices and I do think that her losing both her kids is karmic justice for her bad deeds.

There are certain things that just aren’t forgivable and at a certain point soaps lost sight of that.  Either create an “out” for your character (I.e. don’t let them go full atrocity) or admit it’s a short term character no matter how much you like the actor.  They could have shown Liesl conflicted and not directly doing terrible things, just covering up for Faison, from the start.  They thought it was “fun” to make her an outright sadist gleefully torturing innocents at first and now they want to back pedal it.  It’s a hard no for me.  
 

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, slayer2 said:

When they brought on Drew as the recast back in the day he wasn't really the right fit for a confused, manipulated teen that was volleyed between Carly and whomever her new Daddy of the week was at random. It worked for the plot and emotionally that Chad was recast to handle the (superdepressing and wholly umnecessary) Pentonville storyline. IMO when you need insecure, hurt and manipulated Chad is the guy. 

I disagree. I saw Drew on an episode of...Criminal Minds, and he was wonderful playing a traumatized teen. And he did this before he was recast as the SLS. His eyes are so much more expressive. Chad is just so...bland.

I would have liked to have seen how Drew would have played that stupid rape plot, which was only done to serve as more PAAAAAAAAIN for Jaysus.

And I just saw Drew's image on imdb--he looks soooooooo much hotter than Eeyore.

[YaddaYadda]

11 minutes ago, slayer2 said:

And this is why I feel they have the plot of a grown ass man trying to bring down his father over Mommy issues (which should really be issues over AJ's murder as MB helpfully pointed out). I think the fact that that is his A storyline is almost entirely due to his limitations in romance. I tend to find with soaps that the writers write to what they think the actor's strengths are and unfortunately CD's strength doesn't appear to be romance.

Then they went and saddled the character with another child. 

Congrats on another half-siblings/cousin combo, show! Huzzah, idiots!

[ffwbe]

33 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I know this is in reference to Michael but this also applies to Dex--the actor has a very limited acting ability and zero charisma but we're supposed to believe that Joss is completely enamored of him? 

I get what they’re going for with Dex but he’s a huge miscast. He doesn’t have the charisma to be Joss’ intriguing “bad boy” and comes across as too passive and wimpy for be a mob enforcer. 

[slayer2]

4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I disagree. I saw Drew on an episode of...Criminal Minds, and he was wonderful playing a traumatized teen. And he did this before he was recast as the SLS. His eyes are so much more expressive. Chad is just so...bland.

I would have liked to have seen how Drew would have played that stupid rape plot, which was only done to serve as more PAAAAAAAAIN for Jaysus.

And I just saw Drew's image on imdb--he looks soooooooo much hotter than Eeyore.

I don't see it because Drew was very intense, if they were going to write Michael as vengeful, independent and/or finally turning on Carly and Jason and becoming his own man, I'd see it but Michael has been written for years as a patsy and I don't see Drew believabley playing a patsy. He just doesn't look like someone easily duped to me but Chad (no offense to him) does.

Guza must have been watching The Wire, Oz or Prison Break when he broke that story with his very clear insert Jason in mind. Gah, I despise Robert Guza! That's one thing I am so thankful to be free of.

I agree that they really made a mistake with Dex, in some cases casting is bang-on (all the YA actors) but when it comes to the adults sometimes, damn.

Edited March 2, 2023 by slayer2

[ffwbe]

2 minutes ago, slayer2 said:

I don't see it because Drew was very intense, if they were going to write Michael as vengeful, independent and/or finally turning on Carly and Jason and becoming his own man, I'd see it but Michael has been written for years as a patsy and I don't see Drew believabley playing a patsy. He just doesn't look like someone easily duped to me but Chad (no offense to him) does.

I think when DG was in the role, they wrote Michael more like BC’s Morgan. A hothead who was trying to get into the mob over Sonny and Jason’s objections, constantly got into trouble and had to be bailed out. Once they recast him, Michael moved into the good, well adjusted sibling role, which I always thought was a misfire. He’s the one who had most messed up childhood and was the most aware of what was going on and should have shown the effects of that. 

[YaddaYadda]

19 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

There are certain things that just aren’t forgivable and at a certain point soaps lost sight of that.  Either create an “out” for your character (I.e. don’t let them go full atrocity) or admit it’s a short term character no matter how much you like the actor.  They could have shown Liesl conflicted and not directly doing terrible things, just covering up for Faison, from the start.  They thought it was “fun” to make her an outright sadist gleefully torturing innocents at first and now they want to back pedal it.  It’s a hard no for me.  

I actually like Leisl, which I think has to do with KG's performance more than anything, but I also get where you're coming from. I think this might be a FV thing more than a writers' thing. Peter was kept around for years, even though he was a psycho. I was worried that they would keep Shiloh around because the actor was good and charismatic. The Franco stuff was messy and the Esme stuff is as messy. Leisl. Even Nina back when Stafford was flaying and floundering around like a clubbed fish. 

I don't know if my expectations have changed when it comes to soaps or what, but I don't want redeemed psychos on my screen. I don't want killers to be romantic leads on my soap. I don't want a rapist character to be celebrated and elevated like what he did was no biggie. I'm not 17 years old anymore where I didn't care what the character did (especially the men) as long as they were hot.

Edited March 2, 2023 by YaddaYadda

[jsbt]

4 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

Kidding aside about how it looked like a date, the Dex/Sonny dinner further emphasized for me that a Jason return isn't necessary or desirable.  

If this story develops with Dex ultimately becoming Sonny's loyal right hand for real, there's more potential there. I know Steve Burton's diehards will never stop hoping for another return, but the show is well set up now without him. And he may not be worth the expense. His last departure didn't exactly cause plunging ratings. (The ratings weren't great before, and they remained not-great after.) 

I remember when people said they had it on good authority that Brando would become the new Jason. We saw how that turned out. I do not believe this show or the network possess the integrity at present to say no to Steve Burton if he becomes available. I'll always expect him back, even though his many stunts should mean he's gone for good.

I do think the Quartermaines are in a stronger position now than they've been in quite some time - the renewed focus on them in the last decade with the Drew/Monica relationship, Jason/Sam's kids being allowed to spend time there, Ned and Olivia, Leo and BLQ. There is room to build. It's not like the late 2000s or very early 2010s where the show was writing it into the scripts about how they were cursed and all dead. But Jason does not need to be one of those Qs for me.

24 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

There are certain things that just aren’t forgivable and at a certain point soaps lost sight of that.  Either create an “out” for your character (I.e. don’t let them go full atrocity) or admit it’s a short term character no matter how much you like the actor.  They could have shown Liesl conflicted and not directly doing terrible things, just covering up for Faison, from the start.  They thought it was “fun” to make her an outright sadist gleefully torturing innocents at first and now they want to back pedal it.  It’s a hard no for me.  

Obrecht wasn't just out for Robin and Anna. She was introduced as part of a terrorist network which had her performing illegal human experiments for years. We don't know half of what she's done. Which is a rich vein for future story, but not when she is played as Liesl the town busybody.

And it wasn't Frank so much as it was Ron Carlivati - he's done this at every show with villains and actors he becomes too enamored of, then expects the audience to just go with the campy fun. Kathleen Gati can sing cabaret at the main GH hub in front of baffled nurses and it's just a fun time, shut up and go with it viewers! I think she's a lot of fun if I remove context from it, but in terms of Obrecht I just can't be that amused when she was, at the time, the frickin' chief of staff IIRC. I think she should absolutely be here for recurring and semi-regular stints of villainy and fun, but asking me to care about Liesl Obrecht the semi-upstanding citizen the relatively normal half of Port Charles breaks bread with (like Liz, who she shot!) I just can't do it.

Edited March 2, 2023 by jsbt

[Daisy]

4 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I don't know if my expectations have changed when it comes to soaps or what, but I don't want redeemed psychos on my screen. I don't want killers to be romantic leads on my soap. I don't want a rapist character to be celebrated and elevated like what he did was no biggie. I'm not 17 years old anymore where I didn't care what the character did (especially the men) as long as they were hot.

i think too it's just sometimes they don't know how to let them go. which is dumb. (and then ultimately its like why aren't you planning out your stories better) - and i think too sometimes they don't realize what a gem they have in said character (which i think is sad sometimes). 
 

it is weird that it is the automatic go-to. I know it's been done a few times before.but it always felt like if they were doing it it was a bigger/deeper reason. (and even then they were still flawed as heck).  

Like I will say i do hope they figure out a way to nuance out Esme. and they keep her- but they severely crossed the line, and they didn''t have to. she didn't have to murder the burner phone guy (or at least try to). we legit could have left it at the fiming joss & cam. but i think though (and it requires them pulling out the Good Writer from the closet) at the end of the day Esme was groomed to do a lot of this stuff by her psychopath father. it doesnt excuse everything - but it did warp a LOT of her decisions. if they fumble it - as much as i like AKP, then yeah you might as well have her fall off the parapet for real this time

[jsbt]

The way to let Esme run longer is after she regains her memory but beats the rap, have her dummy up fake papers indicating she married Nikolas somehow. And who's going to say no when 'dead' Nik is in the lair of some rednecks? She takes the island and the money and lords it over people for awhile before going down.

Edited March 2, 2023 by jsbt

[jsbt]

8 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Like I will say i do hope they figure out a way to nuance out Esme. and they keep her- but they severely crossed the line, and they didn''t have to. she didn't have to murder the burner phone guy (or at least try to). we legit could have left it at the fiming joss & cam. but i think though (and it requires them pulling out the Good Writer from the closet) at the end of the day Esme was groomed to do a lot of this stuff by her psychopath father. it doesnt excuse everything - but it did warp a LOT of her decisions. if they fumble it - as much as i like AKP, then yeah you might as well have her fall off the parapet for real this time

The Esme situation reminds me a lot of what Frank's OLTL struggled with with future White Lotus star Meghann Fahy. Fahy came on as Hannah, an unstable coed who developed an obsession with the teen lead's boyfriend. When they realized they had a really excellent actress in the role they quickly tried to shift gears and make her a damsel in distress, and shift the worst of her crimes onto another cartoon villain and have the 'good' characters (like Laura) vouch for her recovery. Pretty soon they realized they had nowhere to go though, and let Hannah revert to type and start taking hostages. The last we saw of her was in OLTL's final weeks on the air, when she broke out of prison with other show villains to cause more hijinks one last time. Sometimes the role is the role. Esme has already lasted considerably longer than Hannah and is a much more fleshed out character, but there's a definite parallel. I want to keep the character around for more trouble, but I don't want her redeemed or rehabilitated. Obrecht works as Obrecht. Esme works as Esme. Heather Webber, the same. They can have a revolving door and come and go a lot.

Edited March 2, 2023 by jsbt

[ffwbe]

Tbh, I get annoyed by villains doing the revolving door thing too. I eventually got tired of Helena and Faison showing up, causing chaos and disappearing because we knew they would never face real repercussions and after a few appearances, it gets boring and repetitive. Villains all have an expiration date to me

Edited March 2, 2023 by ffwbe

[jsbt]

Just now, ffwbe said:

Tbh, I get annoyed by villains doing the revolving door thing too. I eventually got tired of Helena and Faison showing up, cussing chaos and disappearing because we knew they would never face real repercussions and after a few appearances, it gets boring and repetitive. Villains all have an expiration date to me

I get that. They played them too many times in later years. But I do think you can do it in reasonable doses with these characters. I just know I prefer that to trying to kludge Obrecht and Esme into permanent positions on canvas.

[SlovakPrincess]

Redeemed villains can work if the show cares to lay the groundwork… I’m sure redeeming Anna, Donnelly, Holly the con artist, high school hellion Brenda etc. back in the day was a hard sell for some viewers, but the work was at least put in to show true remorse and not cross certain lines.  Your intelligence isn’t completely insulted.

Luke, Sonny, and Carly’s elevation never worked for me, for various reasons, though they would have been fine characters if the show accepted that they are lifelong troublemakers and other characters have a right to dislike them.

I could even see Anna begrudgingly viewing Liesl as a worthy adversary / letting it go if Liesl had targeted Anna directly— in the international crime / spy game, you can’t get your feelings too hurt lol.  But Liesl physically and mentally tortured Robin and everyone knows it.  In no way should normal characters ever have a civil interaction with her.

 

[Daisy]

2 minutes ago, jsbt said:

I get that. They played them too many times in later years. But I do think you can do it in reasonable doses with these characters. I just know I prefer that to trying to kludge Obrecht and Esme into permanent positions on canvas.

but i disagree. lie you can have villians like that yes who come and go,(like Jan Spears on Dool, or whatever). but Esme can still be Esme and be. well solidy grey.  as of right now there is no foil to Joss. that's Esme.  in my opinion anyway. like everything i think it needs to be a balance. there are times where people do get... reeemed (for a lack of a better word). like Lisel's first reaction is somes to choose violence.which is great because Laura's first reaction is to always do good LOL. you need that balance. 

like as much as i liked Alison perkins or heather webber or whatever, whenever something cray cray happens and you drag that out its as tiring and it doesn't make a lot of sense either. See. this stupid hook killer

[KayVeeTeeVee]

16 hours ago, lala2 said:

It saddens and frightens me for the future of the show if he thinks that was a twist. Is he serious? The minute Austin and Ava didn't immediately "handle" Nik's body, we all knew he wasn't going to be there when they returned. The twist would have been him still being there! 🙄

I also don't understand the point of the Willow/Nina story either. They have Willow so hateful and rigid in her opinion of Nina. She's not curious about Nina in any way. She has no questions about her biological father. She doesn't seem interested in her past. She has a husband, two kids, and a MIL she accepts as her mother soooooooo . . . . . . what's the point of the story?

At this point I just want Nina to move on w/her life. I don't want to see her fretting over Willow. I know the girl is dying but this is just not entertaining to me. This is a non-story stuck in loop of Nina misery porn. This can only be entertaining to those who love the Carlys and love to see them be hateful to Nina no matter what she does. I would love to see Nina in a story that has absolutely nothing to do w/the Carlys. 

Oh, what could that be?  Well, how about Nina, Sasha, Maxie, and Brook Lynn go BACK TO CRIMSON!  And talk about fashions, and photographers, corporate espionage, trend lines . . . You know, something that might interest viewers who DON'T LIKE THE MOB AND REALLY DON'T LIKE THE CARLYS. 

[jsbt]

12 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

But Liesl physically and mentally tortured Robin and everyone knows it.  In no way should normal characters ever have a civil interaction with her.

I get Scott getting with Obrecht because let's face it, Scott has gotten down with some strange folk in his time. After his repeat dalliances with Heather there is little that is beneath Love Boat Scott!

[SlovakPrincess]

Just now, jsbt said:

I get Scott getting with Obrecht because let's face it, Scott has gotten down with some strange folk in his time. After his repeat dalliances with Heather there is little that is beneath Love Boat Scott!

When he first got together with Heather it made sense, as she was more of a sexy schemer then and young Scott was up for a crazy hot girl after being burned by loving the angelic Laura. I assume there’s a nostalgia factor there when he goes back to the Heather well.

Liesl doesn’t deserve love.  Even annoying bad-decision making Scott deserves better.  

[Kim0820]

I recall Helena as villain getting very repetitive.  There was that time Stefan kept her prisoner in a bed (paralyzed her somehow) so she did pay sometimes.  

Jerry returned a lot and still could.  

I think the classic example was Todd.  He went onto OLTL as a rapist, everyone liked RH and so they kept him.  But they made efforts to redeem him and did a good job of it, to all accounts.  They never meant him to be a romantic lead, though.  Many regimes later they tried to put him in a romance with his rape victim and I recall the protest at that.  

They did this with Zander, too.  And put the character in a romance with his kidnap victim to boot, having kept him because of their chemistry.  At least it was not a rape.  

Then of course, they have always gotten away with the Luke/Laura rape.  But it was back in the 70s.  They couldn't get away with that today.  

Guza really sucked when it came to women - now it's women's history month, we can raise a glass to the idea he should never come back.  That's why everyone is liking Sonny now as he is not written as the total misogynist he was when Guza wrote GH.  Guze even tried to make it a soap from a man's POV.  I recall reading something where one of his minions actually said that!  

[jsbt]

Just now, SlovakPrincess said:

Liesl doesn’t deserve love.  Even annoying bad-decision making Scott deserves better.  

Of course he does, but Scott is also the guy who (deep breath) left a videotape taunting the town about his embezzling funds and stealing ancient treasure, then came back and became DA. And that was all after he was over 40! I'm still not over it! So I make allowances for Scott, but everyone else and Liesl - eh.

[SlovakPrincess]

Just now, jsbt said:

Of course he does, but Scott is also the guy who (deep breath) left a videotape taunting the town about his embezzling funds and stealing ancient treasure, then came back and became DA. And that was all after he was over 40! I'm still not over it! So I make allowances for Scott, but everyone else and Liesl - eh.

This just means Scott needs therapy to explore why he makes so many pathetic, self-nullifying decisions.  

[jsbt]

1 minute ago, Kim0820 said:

I think the classic example was Todd.  He went onto OLTL as a rapist, everyone liked RH and so they kept him.  But they made efforts to redeem him and did a good job of it, to all accounts.  They never meant him to be a romantic lead, though.  Many regimes later they tried to put him in a romance with his rape victim and I recall the protest at that.  

The Todd situation was more complicated. Very often, especially in the recast years, OLTL wanted to have it both ways and they definitely tried playing Todd II as a sexy romantic lead - less than a year, in fact, after he raped his victim a second time, he was having sexy times with a bunch of women. This eventually led to them having to split the character into two separate people, claiming the 'real' Todd had actually been locked away for eight years, absolving the original Todd of his more recent misdeeds and blaming Todd II's villainy on brainwashing. (This "Two Todds" twin/brainwashing retcon was later shamelessly repurposed by FV's GH for the creation of the Jason and Drew story.)

Jerry Jacks was a stunning recast but also stunningly mishandled. They got a brilliant actor, Sebastian Roche, in a short-term role where he had a major role in killing Alan Quartermaine, a beloved patriarch. Then Guza saw the opportunity to finally do the Jerry character 'right' as the more hard-edged antihero he had allegedly intended him to be in the '90s before losing the battle on his casting and story in those days. He then shamelessly ripped off the recent hit Casino Royale by trying to replicate Daniel Craig's James Bond backstory with Jerry's new history (torture, lost love, etc), right down to Jerry using the alias "Mr. Craig". But none of it made up for what Jerry had come back on the show doing: Killing Alan. So they just kept digging in and digging in, and occasionally would throw in scenes of pathos with him and Alexis or others, but it didn't mitigate it or solve the problem. They took it too far from the jump and Jerry as a character never found his way out.

4 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

This just means Scott needs therapy to explore why he makes so many pathetic, self-nullifying decisions.  

Starting with his hair.

[ffwbe]

37 minutes ago, Kim0820 said:

Guza really sucked when it came to women - now it's women's history month, we can raise a glass to the idea he should never come back.  That's why everyone is liking Sonny now as he is not written as the total misogynist he was when Guza wrote GH.  Guze even tried to make it a soap from a man's POV.  I recall reading something where one of his minions actually said that!  

I recall reading that too. He wanted to bring in a young, male audience and wrote to that. That audience never materialized and I think his writing mostly appealed to misogynistic women since it was a lot of tearing women down, especially the smart independent ones. Even his favored female characters hated all other women and constantly put them down. Female friendships were rare during that era as well. This was mostly in the 2000s. I actually liked his writing in the 90s so I don’t know what happened.

[jsbt]

2 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

I recall reading that too. He wanted to bring in a young, male audience and wrote to that. 

Brian Frons very much wanted it too.

I think part of the issue for part of the 2000s was Chuck Pratt, Guza's co-head for several years. His work on the Spelling soaps of the '90s and later AMC and Y&R speaks for itself. The misogyny, lust for blonde bombshells and catfights, etc. was never higher than during Pratt's time at GH. After he was gone the tone and tenor shifted a bit (and the fascination with Courtney left with him). But Guza could be very misogynistic on his own. He was a talented, very flawed writer who had a long history on soaps and with GH, but like many he also had a love/hate relationship with working in the medium at all. That said, I do miss some of his voice and especially that of the extremely strong daily writing team both he and Claire Labine cultivated through the '90s, many of whom lasted until Frank Valentini and Ron Carlivati arrived and cleaned house. Except for Elizabeth Korte it's all gone now and it shows.

[slayer2]

19 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

I recall reading that too. He wanted to bring in a young, male audience and wrote to that. That audience never materialized and I think his writing mostly appealed to misogynistic women since it was a lot of tearing women down, especially the smart independent ones. Even his favored female characters hated all other women and constantly put them down. Female friendships were rare during that era as well. This was mostly in the 2000s. I actually liked his writing in the 90s so I don’t know what happened.

Wendy Riche happened. Wendy Riche was there to keep him in check and he came off the wonderful seeds that Claire Labine had planted. It wasn't until he returned without her that I realized what a massive impact an EP has on a show because all that good stuff was her and Claire before him.

I tend to give Scott wide birth in terms of forgiveness given all his dead children and the fact that he never got absolution for what Sonny did to Karen. I'm still not over them killing off (the perfectly cast) Logan just to give JMB something to do. Logan and Maxie were it. Maxie and Logan and Maxie and Johnny. It wasn't the actor's fault him and JMB didn't have chemistry. I'll never get over that one and thus I've always looked at Scott as the dotty, drunk uncle ever since. I just want him to have his kids back. 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by slayer2
I'd be remiss not to mention Michele Val Jean as well.

[Mirabelle]

2 hours ago, KayVeeTeeVee said:

Oh, what could that be?  Well, how about Nina, Sasha, Maxie, and Brook Lynn go BACK TO CRIMSON!  And talk about fashions, and photographers, corporate espionage, trend lines . . . You know, something that might interest viewers who DON'T LIKE THE MOB AND REALLY DON'T LIKE THE CARLYS. 

Ava's got an art gallery. Why not throw her into a storyline involving art forgery, stolen paintings, and a suave international art thief? It would also give Trina a role in a story that isn't about her paternity or her love life. You could also throw in the WSB adjacent people because the art thieving could be used to fund terrorism or arms dealing or whatever.  It could also tie in with Victor's PLAN if the writers haven't figured out what the PLAN is yet. 

I really like Scott's bond with the on-screen Webbers so Lisel can shut it with her jealousy over Scott helping Elizabeth with her legal troubles. 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Mirabelle

[Daisy]

Show... do not make Molly pregnant. DO not. 

[ffwbe]

I think the show forgot that TJ and Molly have been “domestic partners” for over 2 years. That or Sam can’t count 

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, Kim0820 said:

I recall Helena as villain getting very repetitive.

Helena was the go-to baddie so often we joked about it and used her as the reason for everything, regardless of whether she was actually involved.

2 hours ago, slayer2 said:

I'm still not over them killing off (the perfectly cast) Logan just to give JMB something to do.

There were some BTS issues with Josh Duhon that contributed to his leaving the show. Apparently he stirred up quite a bit of trouble. I think some of it was because GH was his first big acting role and he had some trouble adjusting, but that doesn't give you a pass for being an asshole.

43 minutes ago, Mirabelle said:

I really like Scott's bond with the on-screen Webbers so Lisel can shut it with her jealousy over Scott helping Elizabeth with her legal troubles. 

Same. If Liesl decides to give Scott an ultimatum, she's going to lose. Not that she cares in her current state of mind, but her cohort doesn't have too many other available men.

[slayer2]

1 minute ago, dubbel zout said:

There were some BTS issues with Josh Duhon that contributed to his leaving the show. Apparently he stirred up quite a bit of trouble. I think some of it was because GH was his first big acting role and he had some trouble adjusting, but that doesn't give you a pass for being an asshole.

Ah that's a bummer! Sad to hear he fumbled the bag, although to be fair many of the actors on this show seem to do that quite frequently.

How about this for a fix? Dex is AJ's son, he's recast with Drew Garrett and his mother is none other than Julia, Brenda's sister and subject of the hot affair her and AJ had. That would make Brenda his aunt and Dex a Quartermaine and DG would have the chance to play the son of AJ we all deserve.

[ffwbe]

There’s not the usual suspects on today so that’s something. Just wish the scenes were less boring because I’m falling asleep. Nothings happening except recapping or idle chit chat 

[lala2]

12 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

There’s not the usual suspects on today so that’s something. Just wish the scenes were less boring because I’m falling asleep. Nothings happening except recapping or idle chit chat 

Yeah  . . .  I'm WFH today, and this episode is straight boring. Haha! I've barely looked up or unmuted. 

I did unmute when Molly was offered wine to see if she would take it. There was speculation last week about her being possibly being pregnant. I know @Daisy wouldn't want her pregnant but I think a Tolly pregnancy would be ok. They've been together for years and are young prof'ls. I would rather them get a kid than see Esme w/one! All the kids are born to characters I hate, or should I say the kids that survive are typically born to characters I despise like Amelia or Leo or Donna. lol

Edited March 2, 2023 by lala2