S05.E11: Episode 11

[chick binewski]

54 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Helen was also wearing a different dress and had different hair between Noah's and Helen's POV's.  She looked like she was going to a funeral in Noah's.  I wonder what that was about.  I could be wrong, and Whitney could have been wearing Helen's dress in Whitney's POV, and she just put a coat over the dress.  I just remember Whitney was definitely wearing long white sleeves with her front completely covered in white during Whitney's POV, which was a stark contrast to Helen's dress.

Also, I can't believe I forgot to mention Janelle, but I have been waiting all season for her plot not to pay off so that I could say, "why, show??" And my moment came and I forgot!  But, really, why, show?  I can understand--even if I don't agree--why Sierra and Whitney had POV's, as they were part of the story to the end.  But I can't justify Janelle's presence. 

To me, Helen has always looked better when she's featured in everyone else's POV and I think that's a conscious effort the show has made (unless I'm totally wrong like I've been about most of all this). I thought Tierney looked gorgeous when Noah was staring at her during the dance rehearsal. But I also thought her dress in Noah's pov was great - backless satin with the sort of asymmetrical neckline. However her shoes alone in her own pov - yikes.

I think Janelle's pov (other than to fill the Ruth Wilson-shaped hole in The Affair) was partly to show another couple coming together again after it all seemed irreparable. Which would have a nice comparison to Helen/Noah except for Carl being such a hostile jerk in S4, but the actor imo really sold it in his appearance this season.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

8 hours ago, nara said:

Noah claiming that Whitney would always keep Colin’s life interesting. I do think he’s right about Whitney being passionate. However, she’s also abusive and it is a mistake to romanticize that.

Yes! This bothered me so much. I could not disagree with Noah more. It's when you are young that you think dramatic and flighty is interesting and when you get older you appreciate loyalty and commitment. I would have like to have known if Colin and Whitney stayed married and for how long. I think they couldn't have stayed married for more than 5 years. Whitney didn't even know if she was in love and if Colin didn't make it as an artist, I can't see her sticking around for that.

I enjoyed the Noah and Helen segments of this episode but didn't care for the the Joanie segments. Just like the rest of the season. They should have left out all of Joanie or done it better. It had potential as an idea but the follow through was dumb as hell. Same with #metoo. I'm not even sure what point we were supposed to take away from that.

I loved Helen's whole speech to Noah. It's totally true that if you are married to someone for 50 years there is going to be some co-dependency. I think the Noah/Helen interactions are almost always interesting.

I liked that Stacey became the writer rather than one of the boys. Her perspective must be interesting because she was so young when her parents broke up and got back together. Whitney and Martin were almost out of the house by that point but the whole thing must have taken place during her earliest memories.

I like how Whitney was so rude to her mother but when Margaret started in on Helen, Whitney thought it was too much. It's like Whitney's the only one allowed to bully to her mother. And then to get upset at her siblings for not telling her that Noah was in Montauk. Like it's their fault and not hers that he's not at her wedding. She really is something else.

I was glad that Colin's mother made it to the wedding. I was going to be sad if he didn't have any family there.

I'll admit that I laughed out loud when I saw Bruce literally taped to the the chair. I'm surprised he kept quiet during the ceremony.

Good-bye, The Affair. I won't miss you but I enjoyed some of what you had to offer.

Edited November 4, 2019 by DoubleUTeeEff
extra word

[stormy weather]

This might be the corniest ending to a TV show I've ever seen. So here are all the questions and observations I have re: this episode (and the entire season) in chronological order (yes I took notes during the episode and yes I'm a little ashamed of it): 

- the first 10 minutes were devoted to hint (quite heavily) at the fact Helen and Noah were gonna get back together. Yes, we got it like 5 episodes ago, can we please move on. 

- what are the odds of Colin's parents both missing the flight for completely different reasons? When he said he was from Northern Ireland and his dad had been arrested I thought "here we go with The Troubles" and I was SO thankful they didn't go there, too.

- Noah’s speech to Colin about their dysfunctional but always-there-when-needed family was super trite.

- why did Helen seem proud of having a daughter like Whitney during the wedding after she had treated her like dirt last episode and in the wedding dress scene? And why does Noah defend her with Martin also? How can they be so blind to the fact their daughter is a monster? I'm glad at least Martin sees her for how she truly is. Being away for the whole season did him good!

- seeing Bruce strapped to a chair at the wedding and then jumping in the pool at Whitney's request at the end of the night was just stupid, mean and unnecessary. 

- so Sierra’s boyfriend from L.A.’s parents live near Montauk and he even applied for a job at The Lobster Roll?! I guess the six degrees of separation everyone in the world is supposed to have are not between them and another random person in the world but between them and Montauk.  

- the whole flash mob was super clichéd and also how did Whitney know the choreography when she joined at the end?

- at the father-daughter dance when Whitney was alone in a corner Helen should've told Martin: "I think you should go and slap your sister" instead of "dance" because it's HER fault if her dad's not here to dance with her and Helen shouldn't feel bad for her.

- I still don't get why EJ wants to be with Joanie so bad. She's clearly unhinged and she's insufferable! She even got more mad at him when he revealed that he was Eddie (who, to Joanie, is a complete stranger anyway) than he at her when she revealed she was married! And then they get in the car and just leave, presumably to Vienna, without packing a bag or even locking the house door? 

- the entire conversation between Noah and Joanie about trauma and his apologetic and forgiving view of Alison was just sad to see. 

- SOLLOWAY KIDS: Whitney, dad is here, he planned your whole wedding, paid for it and even organized and choreographed the flash mob.
WHITNEY: I don't care, I hate him.
COLIN: He bought my mother a plane ticket.
W: OMG he's the best and I love him let's go get him at the motel.
And then they all leave without even thinking about telling Helen (or Colin's mother, whom I assume was the only member of his family at the wedding and was just abandoned there) or wondering where she'd been for the last couple of hours.

- who has sex in a motel without closing the curtain?! WHO?! HOW?! WHY?!

- Stacey drinks champagne. Stacey is 12. 

- Joanie gets back home without a backpack or even the burgundy jacket she did have on that empty train that apparently exists only for her. 

- I'm sorry, maybe I'm an emotional glacier but the last scene of Noah dancing on the cliff was pathetic. Maybe it doesn't help that I hate that song. Also, how can Noah still remember the choreography of the flash mob 25-30 years later?

Okay, I'm done. Like someone else already said, I would've preferred to be shown where all the main characters are now, what they've done with their lives, how Helen (and Margaret) died and why Noah decided to stay in Montauk in a sort of "Six Feet Under finale" way. Oh well, it is what it is.

I honestly think the thing I'll miss the most about this show is this forum, that never failed to provide interesting discussions, useful insights and lots of laughter, so thank you all for the ride and I hope I'll catch you on some other threads!

Edited November 4, 2019 by stormy weather

[nara]

24 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I liked that Stacey became the writer rather than one of the boys. Her perspective must be interesting because she was so young when her parents broke up and got back together. Whitney and Martin were almost out of the house by that point but the whole thing must have taken place during her earliest memories.

Stacey showed her literary chops in that astronaut story. Would be great if she published it.

20 minutes ago, stormy weather said:

- what are the odds of Colin's parents both missing the flight for completely different reasons? When he said he was from Northern Ireland and his dad had been arrested I thought "here we go with The Troubles" and I was SO thankful they didn't go there, too.

- the whole flash mob was super clichéd and also how did Whitney know the choreography when she joined at the end?

- at the father-daughter dance when Whitney was alone in a corner Helen should've told Martin: "I think you should go and slap your sister" instead of "dance" because it's HER fault if her dad's not here to dance with her and Helen shouldn't feel bad for her.

- I still don't get why EJ wants to be with Joanie so bad. She's clearly unhinged and she's insufferable! She even got more mad at him when he revealed that he was Eddie (who, to Joanie, is a complete stranger anyway) than he at her when she revealed she was married! And then they get in the car and just leave, presumably to Vienna, without packing a bag or even locking the house door? 

- Stacey drinks champagne. Stacey is 12. 

- I'm sorry, maybe I'm an emotional glacier but the last scene of Noah dancing on the cliff was pathetic. Maybe it doesn't help that I hate that song. Also, how can Noah still remember the choreography of the flash mob 25-30 years later?

I thought Colin’s mom missed the flight because her husband was arrested...

Noah said that Whitney ordered the flash mob. Perhaps she provided the steps? Also, aren’t flash mobs passé?

Why's there even a father-daughter dance at a wedding where the bride’s father is not present? Was that meant to be a comment on the stupidity of Whitney’s friends?

Re: EJ’s attraction to Joanie— it reminded me of a speech I heard by Jerry Sandusky’s adopted son. His birth family was horribly abusive. When Jerry started being handsy, the son didn’t know what normal family behavior was and thought this was a normal way of showing affection. (That was an incredibly sad speech he gave, and I’d be surprised if there was a dry eye in the hall.) EJ is Sierra’s son. He may believe subconsciously that this erratic behavior is normal and may be conditioned to be drawn to it.

Stacey drinking champagne is more proof that she’s the younger sister from Hotel New Hampshire who just stopped growing. She’s really 17.

I think it’s believable that Noah remembers the routine. I remember the steps to a dance routine my sister and I did 30 years ago. If you repeat it enough, it becomes muscle memory.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, nara said:

Would be great if she published it.

She did. It was this episode. 

[LoveLeigh]

NM

Edited November 4, 2019 by DakotaLavender

[cardigirl]

2 hours ago, T Summer said:

As soon as Whitney answered Helen's question why am I here ... if this is how you feel about me? with "awp tics it would have looked terrible. I didn't want any empty seats" . I, the videographer would have been long GONE!  and I'd  have taken my dress with me! Whitney's personality is trash start to finish! I give poor Colin 6 months.

Optics, not awp tics. Optics as in the visual. 
 

And little Eddie was with Sierra’s boyfriend’s parents, because Helen asked them that question. 

[scrb]

Maybe it's because I like the song, but that dance is really about the only instance I can think of where the characters seem to be filled with joy, if only for a couple of minutes.

Of course the actors worked with choreographers who made them flail their arms expressively, in contrast to the slight melancholy in the song.

In fact it seems kind of out of place with the whole of the show.

[T Summer]

4 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Optics, not awp tics. Optics as in the visual. 
 

And little Eddie was with Sierra’s boyfriend’s parents, because Helen asked them that question. 

You get that I was making fun of the way Whitney said  "awp tics" while she was being horrible to her mother right? 😄

Thank you I missed Helen asking about little Eddie...must have dozed off.

Edited November 4, 2019 by T Summer
forgot Eddie

[cardigirl]

1 minute ago, T Summer said:

You get that I was making fun of the way Whitney said  "awp tics" while she was being horrible to her mother right? 😄

Oh thank goodness. With some of the comments this show gets, one can never be sure. 😘

[T Summer]

2 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Oh thank goodness. With some of the comments this show gets, one can never be sure. 😘

She also does it with "Mawn Tauk"!

[cardigirl]

One of my favorite lines was Whitney saying “She’s a monster!” about her grandmother, and Helen replying “Well, she’s our monster.” LOVED IT! 

[Blakeston]

So Whitney invited Helen because of "optics," and was horrified at the thought of how empty chairs would look - but the optics of tying an old man to a chair didn't bother her? The wedding video probably looked like a hostage video.

[Milburn Stone]

1 hour ago, Giant Misfit said:

She did. It was this episode. 

At first I read this as "it was in this episode." Then I realized how profound what you're really saying is. This episode we just watched--all of it--that was taken whole from Stacey Solloway's novel Montauk.

Possibly the entire show was.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Milburn Stone

[PrincessPurrsALot]

The way Noah's arm was moving when he was leaning against the gravestone at the cemetery, it looked like he was masturbating.  Guess my mind was on sex since apparently having sex with the curtains open in a motel room that opens onto a parking lot is a-okay with Noah Fucking Solloway.

[T Summer]

What book was Joanie reading in The Lobster Roll?

[WaltersHair]

Sappy, sappy, sappy ending, but that's okay because DAMN Whitney is, at the very least, a sociopath.

I swear they I thought they were going to have Joanie and Eddie standing on the shore of Montauk as a giant wave wiped it out.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

58 minutes ago, T Summer said:

What book was Joanie reading in The Lobster Roll?

Montauk written by Stacey Solloway

[Blakeston]

I honestly didn't give a rat's ass about Alison when she was alive (with the exception of the beginning of season one, before we realized how toxic she was).

And I was fine with the writers' decision to let Ben get away with it in the present day. Psychos get away with killing people all the time, and the world of the show is hardly a fair one.

But I hate that they brought him back to twirl his mustache some more, and then let him get away with it a second time. It was distracting. I was far more concerned with him getting some comeuppance than I was about whether Joanie's husband would take her back for no good reason (snore), or whether Noah would perform a decrepit dance on the shoreline (snore snore snore).

And for Noah to be so blasé when learning that Ben killed Alison, and then brutally manipulated Joanie? He's an asshole even in his old age.

Noah's the reason that the police never seriously investigated her death (talking to him convinced the cops that she was a depressed wreck who was likely to kill herself), and he claimed to care so much about Joanie. And he knows that Cole spent the rest of his life wanting Ben to face justice. And his reaction to learning Ben killed Allison is to basically shrug his shoulders and say, "Hey, whatcha gonna do?" Ugh, shut up Old Noah.

[SuzieQ]

21 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

They wrote Ruth Wilson off because she asked to be written off. She wanted to leave the show, it was her choice. 

Why do you think that? I saw her on a talk show at the end of last season and they were prodding her with questions and all she would say was she couldn't talk about it, per the network.  I really didn't get the impression it was her idea.

[T Summer]

31 minutes ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

Montauk written by Stacey Solloway

thank you

[T Summer]

24 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I honestly didn't give a rat's ass about Alison when she was alive (with the exception of the beginning of season one, before we realized how toxic she was).

And I was fine with the writers' decision to let Ben get away with it in the present day. Psychos get away with killing people all the time, and the world of the show is hardly a fair one.

But I hate that they brought him back to twirl his mustache some more, and then let him get away with it a second time. It was distracting. I was far more concerned with him getting some comeuppance than I was about whether Joanie's husband would take her back for no good reason (snore), or whether Noah would perform a decrepit dance on the shoreline (snore snore snore).

And for Noah to be so blasé when learning that Ben killed Alison, and then brutally manipulated Joanie? He's an asshole even in his old age.

Noah's the reason that the police never seriously investigated her death (talking to him convinced the cops that she was a depressed wreck who was likely to kill herself), and he claimed to care so much about Joanie. And he knows that Cole spent the rest of his life wanting Ben to face justice. And his reaction to learning Ben killed Allison is to basically shrug his shoulders and say, "Hey, whatcha gonna do?" Ugh, shut up Old Noah.

ALL OF THIS!

I'm just aghast at what they did to Cole's character

It's like Cole (J.J.) bailed from this sinking ship and Treem + the team decided to bitchslap  punish   him every single time he was brought up. No mention of Cole this entire season except for when Noah told Joanie  he always thought Ben killed Alison and admitted to a grudging respect for him bore the slightest  resemblance to the Cole Lockheart we knew in  seasons 1-4.

[Armchair Critic]

6 hours ago, T Summer said:

It would have been a very different wedding if I was  writing this show. As soon as Whitney answered Helen's question why am I here ... if this is how you feel about me? with "awp tics it would have looked terrible. I didn't want any empty seats" . I, the videographer would have been long GONE!  and I'd  have taken my dress with me! Whitney's personality is trash start to finish! I give poor Colin 6 months.

I thought the same thing, when Whitney said she only had her mom there for optics I really  wanted Helen to walk out and not go to the wedding.

[T Summer]

On 11/3/2019 at 1:48 AM, DiabLOL said:

I'm calling the police.

😄 😊 😋

[Armchair Critic]

On 11/3/2019 at 1:14 AM, chocolatine said:

This show should be retroactively renamed Noah Having His Cake And Eating It Too. Not only did he not suffer any long-term repercussions for all the hurt he'd caused, he also got to outlive both of his "loves" and is now a sweet old diner owner dispensing sage advice to troubled souls and dancing on top of cliffs.

😂 I figured from the beginning of the show that it would end up with Noah and Helen back together but then I kept telling myself that wouldn't happen because it was too predictable.

3 hours ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

The way Noah's arm was moving when he was leaning against the gravestone at the cemetery, it looked like he was masturbating

My mind went there too...

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

Ugh, shut up Old Noah

hahahaaa I agree

5 hours ago, nara said:

Noah said that Whitney ordered the flash mob. Perhaps she provided the steps? Also, aren’t flash mobs passé?

One of the tropes that bugs me is when somebody just jumps into the dancing and automatically knows all the steps and that's what Whitney did. But they referred to Noah as the choreographer (another huh moment because that doesn't seem like his skill set).

[chocolatine]

1 minute ago, Armchair Critic said:

One of the tropes that bugs me is when somebody just jumps into the dancing and automatically knows all the steps and that's what Whitney did.

She didn't jump in right away, she watched them do the the routine a few times first. The choreography was pretty simple, so you don't even have to be a professionally trained dancer like Julia Goldani-Telles to pick it up. 😄 

[ScoobieDoobs]

The dancing?  I was puzzled why so much time was spent on it cuz it was mostly meh.

Look, Whitney is still an asshole.  Not much else to her, so why should I give a fuck about her anyway?

I liked the stuff with Helen & Noah.  I did believe this.  It does happen in life . . .

May I share briefly about THE happiest wedding I ever went to?  It was the re-marriage of friends of my parents who divorced 30 years earlier, but had been married for 20 years.  They had a tumultuous marriage & a very bitter divorce & both eventually remarried to others.  They hadn't seen each other in decades, but met again & were both single.  Age had changed them in some substantial ways, but in other ways they found they had as much in common as they did when they were young & first met.  So yes, they re-married & their 3 children were shell-shocked, but extremely happy for them.  Well, the husband died of cancer 5 years later, but apparently they were quite happy & devoted to one another for the years they had together. 

OK, well, that was my sappy story.  As for all the forgiveness going on here?  Eh, not so fast, Treem.  The implication was that Joanie slept with billions of people for years.  Hubby is supposed to forgive that & all of a sudden forget that little ditty?  Not buying it.  More of the same crappy writing this season, Treem.  Actually, the whole Joanie storyline was a total fail on so many levels.

And now Noah is this incredibly wonderful guy?  Really?  If one of Whitney's hot college friends had given ole Noah the eye, wouldn't he have dumped Helen in a sec?  Idk, I just wasn't buying this new-saintly-Noah crap that Treem was trying to throw at us.

OK, what really bothered me about the gravestones was the birth years & NOT the death years.  Remember when Margaret said she was 73 when Noah asked her if she had a tampon for Stacey to use?  Uh, 1951 doesn't work.  And Helen has said many times she's over 50.  Uh, 1972 doesn't work.  Inconsistent, shit writing, Treem!

I got the definite impression it was supposed to be hilarious that 12 year old Stacey was drinking.  It was not hilarious.

[weaver]

2 hours ago, T Summer said:

ALL OF THIS!

I'm just aghast at what they did to Cole's character

It's like Cole (J.J.) bailed from this sinking ship and Treem + the team decided to bitchslap  punish   him every single time he was brought up. No mention of Cole this entire season except for when Noah told Joanie  he always thought Ben killed Alison and admitted to a grudging respect for him bore the slightest  resemblance to the Cole Lockheart we knew in  seasons 1-4.

I was upset about that as well.  And btw, Cole just died in Montauk in the not too distant past (in Joanie's future).   Don't you think that he and Noah would have run into each other as they might have been the only two people living in Montauk?  Cole might have dropped into the Lobster Roll and Noah might have said "hey Cole, how is Joanie."   

[stormy weather]

6 hours ago, nara said:

I thought Colin’s mom missed the flight because her husband was arrested...

I rewatched the scene and Colin doesn't seem to mention the two events were connected. But even if they were, he also said "his dad always does this", so if it's such a routine occurrence I don't understand why his mom would miss her son's wedding because of it.

3 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

Sappy, sappy, sappy ending, but that's okay because DAMN Whitney is, at the very least, a sociopath.

Seriously though. I think the writers exaggerated Whitney's character a bit too much. Okay, we got it, she's a brat, but they way she talks to Helen is totally uncalled for and unjustifiable, it's just too much. Helen and Noah had their flaws, but as parents they were always very loving and supportive, so I seriously don't understand why Whitney would act this way towards them. It's unexplainable and she should probably see a therapist to figure out why she has all that angst pent up inside.

[ScoobieDoobs]

OK, so Whitney will ALWAYS be a useless asshole, Trevor is kind of a nothing (cuz of lack of much development of him), Martin is still glum, glum, glum & mostly just charmless, but then there's the sweet & shockingly (for a Solloway, that is) upbeat Stacey.  Alrighty, Helen & Noah, 1 out of 4 ain't so great, but at least you did good with one of the brood . . .

Everyone here already guessed long ago that EJ is Sierra's son, so that was no big reveal.  But why the heck was Joanie so pissed off at EJ for not telling her about his truly vague connection to her?  That made absolutely no sense.  Guess they were looking for an excuse for her to leave EJ & go back to hubby that she cheated on endlessly & she was clearly miserable with?  More crap writing  . . .

[scrb]

32 minutes ago, stormy weather said:

Seriously though. I think the writers exaggerated Whitney's character a bit too much. Okay, we got it, she's a brat, but they way she talks to Helen is totally uncalled for and unjustifiable, it's just too much. Helen and Noah had their flaws, but as parents they were always very loving and supportive, so I seriously don't understand why Whitney would act this way towards them. It's unexplainable and she should probably see a therapist to figure out why she has all that angst pent up inside.

Over the course of the series, they would check in with Whitney now and then, write little short arcs for her, which would only be an episode or two.

They NEVER featured her own POV segment before this season, IIRC.  And she would say these bitchy things as a teen, was entertaining at first.

So now she's like one of the keys to the ending of the show?  There's this brief alienation between Noah and Whitney, which becomes kind of like the one last obstacle to Noah and Helen reuniting.

And all because of what, the hot tub scene which was how many years ago?  They showed it and then they never referred to it at all until the 2nd or 3rd to last episode of the series.

Again, I question whether this was one of the seeds they planted years ago, so the it would become a thing as the show was just wounding down.

The greater role they gave Whitney in this last season seems like the other fillers like Janelle and Sierra, just trying to make up for the big hole left by Wilson's abrupt departure.

[T Summer]

50 minutes ago, weaver said:

I was upset about that as well.  And btw, Cole just died in Montauk in the not too distant past (in Joanie's future).   Don't you think that he and Noah would have run into each other as they might have been the only two people living in Montauk?  Cole might have dropped into the Lobster Roll and Noah might have said "hey Cole, how is Joanie."   

Noah talking to Joanie said when he and Cole saw each other they  both just about had a heart attack. Did they say where that occurred? The LR maybe? The only one who should have been surprised was Cole as he lived in Montauk most of his life. Noah buying a year round place there would be the surprising development. Absolutely no mention of Noah asking how Joanie was or if she lived there with Cole might   he bring her by next time or anything that normal people would've  discussed.

If Noah moved to Montauk right after Whitney's wedding and he and Cole ran into each other during the past 30 years...  I'd assume Joanie lived with her father until she was 18 or 20 at least? So Noah would not be just meeting adult Joanie now having not seen  her growing up. Like how would that even be possible?

Did anyone catch how many years Cole and Joanie spent in Vermont? I got the impression it was not all that long before Cole returned to Montauk.

Sometimes I wonder if new writers were brought on board this season who didn't really thoroughly familiarize themselves  with the first 4 seasons.  Like maybe they watched it through  once and  their attention was diverted at times. It's maddening.

[cardigirl]

49 minutes ago, T Summer said:

Noah talking to Joanie said when he and Cole saw each other they  both just about had a heart attack. Did they say where that occurred? The LR maybe? The only one who should have been surprised was Cole as he lived in Montauk most of his life. Noah buying a year round place there would be the surprising development. Absolutely no mention of Noah asking how Joanie was or if she lived there with Cole might   he bring her by next time or anything that normal people would've  discussed.

If Noah moved to Montauk right after Whitney's wedding and he and Cole ran into each other during the past 30 years...  I'd assume Joanie lived with her father until she was 18 or 20 at least? So Noah would not be just meeting adult Joanie now having not seen  her growing up. Like how would that even be possible?

Did anyone catch how many years Cole and Joanie spent in Vermont? I got the impression it was not all that long before Cole returned to Montauk.

Sometimes I wonder if new writers were brought on board this season who didn't really thoroughly familiarize themselves  with the first 4 seasons.  Like maybe they watched it through  once and  their attention was diverted at times. It's maddening.

Joanie said they lived in Vermont until she went to college. She ‘escaped’ Cole’s smothering love, as she put it, as soon as she could. So Cole returning to Montauk would have been after that. And quite possibly long after that. 

[T Summer]

15 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Joanie said they lived in Vermont until she went to college. She ‘escaped’ Cole’s smothering love, as she put it, as soon as she could. So Cole returning to Montauk would have been after that. And quite possibly long after that. 

Oh ok. Things make a little more sense then.

I couldn't believe Cole stayed away from Montauk that long.

... but then I forgot they changed  just about everything about him!

[Blakeston]

Noah saying something like "when you never have any clue what your partner is going to say next, that's who you want to spend your life with" has to be some of the strangest dialogue I've ever heard on this show.

For one thing, Noah is doing the opposite of that by getting back together with Helen. He and Helen know each other so well. For Noah, Helen is like a pair of comfortable old shoes (and vice versa). The one who always left him guessing was the wildly erratic Alison. Is that who he thinks he should have spent his life with?

It's also, for the record, terrible advice. You should marry someone you understand, and who understands you. "I have no idea what crazy thing they'll do/say next" can be very exciting, but it's almost never the recipe for a good marriage.

And it was presented as such sage advice, from someone who's about to reunite with their soulmate. Does Treem actually believe this?

On the other hand, at least Martin understands that Whitney is a psycho, and that marrying her would be a disastrous move for anyone. And he turned out cute, too! He's come a long way from the brat who tricked Noah into thinking he'd hanged himself in the pilot.

[nara]

2 hours ago, scrb said:

The greater role they gave Whitney in this last season seems like the other fillers like Janelle and Sierra, just trying to make up for the big hole left by Wilson's abrupt departure.

At least Sierra had some role because of EJ. Janelle’s story was a road to nowhere. Luckily  she escaped from the Solloway world of stupidity.

[Milburn Stone]

9 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

At first I read this as "it was in this episode." Then I realized how profound what you're really saying is. This episode we just watched--all of it--that was taken whole from Stacey Solloway's novel Montauk.

Possibly the entire show was.

Re this thought, a PS that occurred to me this morning. How deliciously ironic that all this time we thought we were seeing the POVs of the various characters, when from the pilot through to the final episode we were seeing Stacey's POV on the whole story, adapted into film.

[snarts]

Two things:  

Where did Whitney get ready for the wedding?  She showed up at the house in full hair & make-up wearing her wedding dress sans overlay.  I understand that was to allow for Noah to be at the house, but it made absolutely no sense, especially since she arrived alone. 

Colin's mother teleporting in from Ireland.  Noah talks to Colin while he getting dressed for the wedding.  We later see him on the phone confirming the flight, saying she arrives at 10:30.  Then, she is suddenly there and it's still daylight? Must be that daily direct flight from Belfast to Montauk.

Ok, I liked the Noah Helen hotel scenes, they felt honest.  However, the entire Joanie/EJ/Sierra crap was a waste of time.  I also could've lived without the Whitney POVs.

[esco1822]

When 900 year old Noah ascended the stairs to the cliffs overlooking the ocean and started doing that terrible 30 year old flashmob to Fiona Apple's very angry version of that song, I wanted to stab someone in the eye. THAT is how this story ends? This entire show ends up being about the fall and redemption of Noah Solloway and he gets to be the hero when it wraps up. Ugh, that pisses me off. It also pisses me off that he gets to outlive Helen AND that Helen had to share a death year with her mother. That woman got the shit end of the stick so much in life and apparently in death as well. Ugh, I hated so much of this finale. I would have liked it so much more if it just ended with the kids outside the motel waiting to be a post-coital family. I would have liked this season so much if they never brought Joanie back. It's just so annoying that so much was left out of the ending. So many storylines were completely unresolved but what we do get in the end, Noah Solloway is a good guy with just meh choreography skills that likes to dance with his cane while overlooking the ocean. I hope that cane breaks when he's kicking the puppy and he falls off the cliff dying in the same place Alison did.  How's that for symmetry?

[TexasGal]

I wanted to see the video of that flash mob just to see what Whitney was actually wearing. 

According to Noah - just her mom's dress. 

According to Helen - not really Helen's dress but maybe?  With the elaborate lace thing over it and then a fur jacket as well. 

According to Whitney - maybe her mom's dress with a suit jacket type thing over it.

Agree with people who've said it would have been nice to at least get a throw away line about the status of Whitney's marriage in the future.  Right after old Noah mentioned his daughter had gotten married in Montauk 30 years ago - and they're still together.  Or, but it didn't work out.  C'mon!

[esco1822]

In my opinion a much better ending to this series would have been Noah's funeral. I think the same things could have been achieved with his loved ones coming back to celebrate his life. We also would have had closure on what happened with the kids instead of leaving us to wonder about all of them except Stacey. 

My coworker loved the finale as did all her friends apparently. She forwarded this link to me this morning with Treem's take on things and I have to say that after reading it, I hate both her and the ending even more. 

https://tvline.com/2019/11/03/the-affair-recap-season-5-episode-11-series-finale-explained/?fbclid=IwAR0zgUMkSHtno0IUYtOfpzN-6LF8i_qHqYnbA5HOhmkS0tQ4OjUaPnTiXNU

[Milburn Stone]

30 minutes ago, esco1822 said:

When 900 year old Noah ascended the stairs to the cliffs overlooking the ocean and started doing that terrible 30 year old flashmob to Fiona Apple's very angry version of that song, I wanted to stab someone in the eye. THAT is how this story ends? This entire show ends up being about the fall and redemption of Noah Solloway and he gets to be the hero when it wraps up. Ugh, that pisses me off.

Don't forget, Stacey is a Daddy's girl. And Stacey wrote the novel Montauk. And the entire show "The Affair" has been a filmic adaptation of the novel Montauk.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

A much less pejorative description than "Daddy's girl" (Whitney's term for her) is "daughter who loves her father, faults and all." The whole show, it's now clear in retrospect, has been an exploration of a daughter's love for her father.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Milburn Stone

[sadie]

I hated it. I hate that Noah basically got what he wanted when he wanted his entire life and ends up dancing on the cliffs as a *cough* celebration of life and love and how wonderful it all turned out for him. Blech. 

Joanie was a completely unnecessary plot device. All we confirmed was that Ben killed Allison and we already knew that. They didn’t even use her in that final scene with Noah to give us epilogue on what happened to everyone else. Nope. It’s all about Noah all the time. Again, blech. 

I hate that Helen had to eat that shit sandwich for her whole life (from Noah, her ungrateful spawn Whitney, her witch of a mother) and didn’t  even get to enjoy a solid year without her awful mother around because they just HAD to have them die the same year. WTF Treem? I mean why do that to not even explain how the hell that happened. 
 

I stuck this out until the end because I loved the show at one time but this ending made me want to scream. Bye Affair, sad to see you go but not sad you’re gone.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

This did seem to be a celebration of terrible people.  Whitney was obnoxious throughout.  I get wedding day stress, but her damn fits are over the top.  No, Noah, marrying someone who acts like a child and gets angry for no reason will not make life exciting.  It will leave you bruised and battered.  Whitney at the table being angry that no one told her Noah was in Montauk was ridiculous.  If Colin left then I wouldn't blame him.  And then her being schmoopy because her parents were having sex at the hotel (and putting on a show), aaaarrrgh! Such bad writing. 

Noah's speech to Joanie was terrible.  Seemingly random old man starts lecturing you on life - run away!  When you learn he's Noah Fucking Solloway, run faster!  

Then again, how creepy was EJ/Eddie.  Stalker much? Hey, Joanie, I've just met you.  You clearly have mental health issues and need to get your life together.  Let's run away together.  Leave your job and your family!  You don't need some stability to try to get yourself together.  Go with me to Vienna for a business trip.  Plans after that?  Guess we'll see what happens.  Unless someone is desperately looking for someone they can choke during sex, I cannot imagine why anyone would want Joanie so badly.  Is the future out of people?  

[izabella]

I'm so glad this is over because I will never again have to see Joanie, or someone, yelling, "stop the car! stop the car!  I want to get out!  Stop the car."  Joanie was on my last nerve with that.

Meh ending to what started out as a great series. 

[SuzieQ]

I feel like this whole season was just a time filler.  So disappointing! Joanie's story line was stupid. No one gives a rat's ass about Whitney's POV.  Dumping the Cole character after already losing Alison is BS.  Sorry I even watched this steaming pile of crap!

[weaver]

3 hours ago, snarts said:

Two things:  

Where did Whitney get ready for the wedding?  She showed up at the house in full hair & make-up wearing her wedding dress sans overlay.  I understand that was to allow for Noah to be at the house, but it made absolutely no sense, especially since she arrived alone. 

Colin's mother teleporting in from Ireland.  Noah talks to Colin while he getting dressed for the wedding.  We later see him on the phone confirming the flight, saying she arrives at 10:30.  Then, she is suddenly there and it's still daylight? Must be that daily direct flight from Belfast to Montauk.

Ok, I liked the Noah Helen hotel scenes, they felt honest.  However, the entire Joanie/EJ/Sierra crap was a waste of time.  I also could've lived without the Whitney POVs.

I noticed that too.   And she came out of the car without even a handbag.   

They acted as if Ireland was Siberia.   "How long is the flight."  Come on, Noah.  

[sadie]

17 minutes ago, izabella said:

I'm so glad this is over because I will never again have to see Joanie, or someone, yelling, "stop the car! stop the car!  I want to get out!  Stop the car."  Joanie was on my last nerve with that.

This! I’ve had a few arguments in a car in my lifetime and have never made so someone stop to let me out, let alone in the middle of nowhere. Just stew in silence like normal people and when you get to where you’re going you can be done with that person. You would have to be a full on serial killer for me to get out. This is one of my most hated tv tropes. Although if I had Joanie in my car I might kick her out first. Lol 

[scrb]

I might want to see the first season or two again because I don't really remember Helen being that much of a victim.

Certainly not in Noah's POVs.

Certainly it was very difficult for her to have her husband leave.  In the end they both got to sleep with a lot of people, have relationships, and reunited.  

She isn't some poor martyr going back to Noah because she didn't have any other options, though kind of surprised Sasha still shows interest in her, since she and Noah no longer have ties to the movie.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Helen seemed to hold her own in her marriage.  Noah cheated and they divorced which I am sure was devastating.  However, I didn't see the Helen as doormat we are now being sold.  She had her own business, pushed back on Noah to take his part in childcare and freely snarked back to her parents when they were terrible to her and/or her family.

She met Vik and actively chose to move with him to LA (which she disliked but it was her choice; there was no evidence shown that she was somehow forced to go). She went through the horror of his death, but many people have lost a partner.  

She dated Sasha and pushed back on hi in many ways.  She may have fallen for his smarmy self to some extent, yet she was never shown as being head over heels.  

Not a doormat.