Josie and Kelton: They Have Employable Skills

[BitterApple]

I knew it. Josie's boobs looked ginormous in her most recent reels. 

I figured they'd try for a boy in the near future. Hazel will be nearly 3 by the time the new baby is born, so that's pretty normal in terms of spacing. 

Unlike with Alyssa's situation, I don't think a pregnancy is disastrous news. Josie is young but appears to enjoy her kids, and she hires sitters when she needs them. I just wish she'd send Willow to school. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by BitterApple

[65mickey]

On 8/10/2023 at 1:04 PM, 3 is enough said:

I would not be surprised if she does get pregnant soon- I’m sure they want a little boy. But she just turned 24 so she has plenty of time.

 

Well you called it. Baby #3 is on the way. She is redoing the girls room. I wonder if they are going to move or do an Erin and put #3 in the small room with the girls. 

[ginger90]

Screenshot from a video:

[Salacious Kitty]

Based on the dates from the ultrasound, she's due March 6. 

Least surprising announcement ever. Everyone speculated that her SM break was due to morning sickness.

[3 is enough]

Hardly a surprise. They seem happy enough. I have 3 myself so I can’t really pass judgement. Hazel will be almost 3 when the baby comes so that’s a decent spacing.

[Heathen]

Did the stick even dry before she started planning the curated photo shoot? 

 

I wish they'd have stopped at two. 

[Salacious Kitty]

1 hour ago, Heathen said:

Did the stick even dry before she started planning the curated photo shoot? 

 

I wish they'd have stopped at two. 

She nearly lost Hazel. And they told her that subsequent pregnancies would be tougher. I forget her exact condition, on top of the clotting disorder, but there isn't a guarantee of a baby with her.

[Absolom]

They have blood factor incompatibilities.  It leads to jaundice in the newborn and supposedly gets worse with each pregnancy if the fetus has those factors.

[3 is enough]

3 minutes ago, Absolom said:

They have blood factor incompatibilities.  It leads to jaundice in the newborn and supposedly gets worse with each pregnancy if the fetus has those factors.

And yet it didn’t stop them from doing it again. Hopefully if this one is a boy they will stop. 

 

[cereality]

16 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

And yet it didn’t stop them from doing it again. Hopefully if this one is a boy they will stop. 

 

I’d imagine even if it is a boy, he’ll need a brother in 2-3 yrs. Not only bc fundies believe that a boy raised with all girls could turn out gay but also bc Kelton is one of 3 boys and makes a big deal re brothers. And clearly Kelton is looking to replicate his family - I mean it doesn’t take a genius to figure out he wants 5 bc he’s one of 5. Josie is only 24 so I’m sure Kelton’s concession is - pregnancies are tough on you, no sweat, we can space it out and have one every 3 yrs instead of 2. But I’ve always had the vibe his way goes in that fam so Josie is pushing out 5 whether she likes it or not.

[Salacious Kitty]

2 minutes ago, cereality said:

I’d imagine even if it is a boy, he’ll need a brother in 2-3 yrs. Not only bc fundies believe that a boy raised with all girls could turn out gay but also bc Kelton is one of 3 boys and makes a big deal re brothers. And clearly Kelton is looking to replicate his family - I mean it doesn’t take a genius to figure out he wants 5 bc he’s one of 5. Josie is only 24 so I’m sure Kelton’s concession is - pregnancies are tough on you, no sweat, we can space it out and have one every 3 yrs instead of 2. But I’ve always had the vibe his way goes in that fam so Josie is pushing out 5 whether she likes it or not.

Yeah, Kelton presents as a controlling ass. 

[3 is enough]

I get the controlling vibe too. One would think he learned something after his own mother died after giving birth but no. In fact, it just made him insist that his wife could not have an epidural because he thinks it contributed to his mother’s death. So not only is Josie facing another risky pregnancy but she has to go through labour with no pain relief.  What a guy. 😐

[3 is enough]

Meanwhile Josie’s business partner Grace is touring Italy and Switzerland with her husband. Gotta wonder if Josie ever wishes she could have done that instead of starting a family at 19.

[cereality]

9 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

I get the controlling vibe too. One would think he learned something after his own mother died after giving birth but no. In fact, it just made him insist that his wife could not have an epidural because he thinks it contributed to his mother’s death. So not only is Josie facing another risky pregnancy but she has to go through labour with no pain relief.  What a guy. 😐

Do tell - I hadn't heard this detail before. KELTON controls whether Josie gets an epidural?? Not the woman laboring?? Damn I wouldn't be having any of his babies, let alone 5 of them. But then again I also wouldn't marry that douchebag and think he's ALL THAT bc OMG he's got a business.

While I'm sure she judges her business partner secretly for prioritizes travel over making babies, there is NO way she isn't a little jealous here - come on to be 24 and saddled with 3 kids!? But for Kelton and her cult upbringing, I could have seen her going to college, getting a business degree, working for a company gaining experience, and then starting a biz doing something more sophisticated than hair and selling barrettes. Frankly I could see her at a company in marketing doing software sales and the like if she was born into a different fam.

If he was a normal not brainwashed human, you'd think with the trauma his family endured he'd be the type who'd tell his gf/fiance/wife very early on that's he up for zero babies until they're at least age 30+ and feel that clock ticking and then they'll go to a big medical center and under the care of an experienced dr have one and then if that goes well MAYBE 2 and that's it. I mean they could do the same thing at age 25 or 28 or whatever but he only lost his mother around age 13 - to then find his wife 5 yrs later when she was only 14, rush to the altar 5 yrs after that and have a baby 9 mos later!? Uh I guess these people don't believe in healing and time.

But for all we know they see it as - Kelton's mother passed doing what she was meant to do - have babies. 

So the talk on Reddit is that whatever blood disorder Josie has is not as simple as rH factor but something more complicated, for which there is no prevention, and it affects that baby [IDK if it's harmful to the mother or not]. Apparently that's why Hazel ended up in NICU and was lucky to only have jaundice. But babies can end up with worse things like heart failure!? And apparently it is/may be progressive - like worse for future pregnancies than for earlier ones. Uh???

What's the deal having another baby then? Whatever happens - it's the baby's destiny not ours!?

 

[BitterApple]

Kelton strikes me as the type who has a very clearly defined life plan, and he's gonna stick to it, risks be damned. When it comes to things like his business and financial goals, that's not necessarily bad, but there's something uncomfortably  obsessive in his dynamic with Josie. I've never been a huge fan of Gil, but he was 100% correct in putting the kibosh on an 18 year-old college student pursuing his 14 year-old daughter. The fact that Kelton couldn't understand Gil's side and harbored resentment gave me bad vibes. 

I don't recall the issues with the epidural, but didn't Josie pass out from pain during one of her labors? Even if Kelton didn't outright say, "you can't get the epidural," guilt tripping her or gaslighting her into avoiding it is just as bad. 

[3 is enough]

To be clear I am just going on posts I saw after Willow was born but Kelton was distraught at the thought of Josie having an epidural because of what happened to his mother. He blames the epidural in part for his mother’s death because as he sees it it masked her symptoms so there was no time for medical intervention. I am no doctor so maybe @Notabug could give us some insight.

Of course he could not forbid Josie from getting an epidural but I think his discomfort with it dissuaded her from getting it. Pretty sure she did not have one with Hazel either but I think that labour was a bit easier.

ETA: Kelton’s mother died of an amniotic fluid embolism which is apparently very rare.

Edited August 15, 2023 by 3 is enough

[Absolom]

We lived through this and I'll explain in layman's terms if @Notabug doesn't show up with the full medical explanation.  

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

Kelton strikes me as the type who has a very clearly defined life plan, and he's gonna stick to it, risks be damned. When it comes to things like his business and financial goals, that's not necessarily bad, but there's something uncomfortably  obsessive in his dynamic with Josie. I've never been a huge fan of Gil, but he was 100% correct in putting the kibosh on an 18 year-old college student pursuing his 14 year-old daughter. The fact that Kelton couldn't understand Gil's side and harbored resentment gave me bad vibes. 

I don't recall the issues with the epidural, but didn't Josie pass out from pain during one of her labors? Even if Kelton didn't outright say, "you can't get the epidural," guilt tripping her or gaslighting her into avoiding it is just as bad. 

Same here. Kelton couldn't understand it and was still pissed years later. He talked about "forgiving" Josie which makes no sense. She had no choice in that decision. He's all about control.

[AstridM]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Same here. Kelton couldn't understand it and was still pissed years later. He talked about "forgiving" Josie which makes no sense. She had no choice in that decision. He's all about control.

Gil never should have allowed him near her at all, even after she was 18, after the guy proved himself to be a creep who thinks it’s ok for a grown man to pursue a middle school aged child .

[Notabug]

7 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

To be clear I am just going on posts I saw after Willow was born but Kelton was distraught at the thought of Josie having an epidural because of what happened to his mother. He blames the epidural in part for his mother’s death because as he sees it it masked her symptoms so there was no time for medical intervention. I am no doctor so maybe @Notabug could give us some insight.

Of course he could not forbid Josie from getting an epidural but I think his discomfort with it dissuaded her from getting it. Pretty sure she did not have one with Hazel either but I think that labour was a bit easier.

ETA: Kelton’s mother died of an amniotic fluid embolism which is apparently very rare.

Amniotic fluid embolisms are NOT caused by epidurals and do not run in families.  Essentially, there is a total body vascular collapse in the mother.  They most commonly occur during labor or right after delivery.  The woman is doing fine and then, in an instant, she suffers a cardiac arrest.  It was initially thought that this was triggered by amniotic fluid entering the mother's bloodstream via dilated uterine blood vessels, but, it seems more complicated than that.  Essentially, it is similar to anaphylactic shock, the most severe type of allergic reaction, but it is practically instantaneous; there is no rash, or hives or shortness of breath preceding it as there is with most allergic reactions.

I have personally witnessed two women who suffered AFE.  One was in labor, 6 cm dilated, she had a epidural.  The other had just delivered twins vaginally, no epidural.  In both cases, everything was going well; mom's blood pressure had been fine, the baby still in utero looked fine on the monitor, the twins were full term and healthy and vigorous.  In both cases, the woman commented that she didn't feel well and almost immediately had a seizure.  The cascade of events that then occur almost invariably result in DIC (disseminated intravascular coagulation) which leads to an inability of the blood to clot.  Most of these women bleed out rapidly, it's hard to run blood into them fast enough to keep up..  The most recent one I saw, a few years ago; was witnessed by the nurse and the woman's husband.  It was a big tertiary labor and delivery unit and there were half a dozen doctors in the room within seconds along with a full code team.  She was intubated and CPR started immediately.,  The house physician did a cesarean in the bed and got the baby out (he survived and was a healthy, happy preschooler last I heard).  By the time the baby was out, mom was in DIC, maybe 5 minutes from the start of the seizure.  She was bleeding from her incision as well as from her IV site initially, eventually, every prior needle stick, her lungs, her kidneys; everything was bleeding.  She got something like 17 units of blood and multiple rounds of platelets and clotting factors.  She also got steroids which seem to help in some cases.  It was a horror show.  Her husband stayed in the room (that's routine these days) and her parents were brought in from the waiting room.  I'll never forget her mom kneeling at the foot of the bed, holding her daughter's ankle and begging her to live.  After an hour or so, there was nothing left to do and we stopped trying to resuscitate.  Very similar story with the lady with twins, she also died.  

Anyway, that is apparently what happened to Kelton's mother.

As for Josie's issue; the interviews she's given show her to be not too well versed in medicine and not really understanding what the doctors told her.  No surprise there.  Everyone knows about Rh disease which can occur if a mom is Rh neg and her baby is positive.  All of factors that result in hemolytic disease of the newborn, like Rh, are due to various proteins which are present on the outer surface of our red blood cells.  The most famous are A and B, which determine our blood type.  Not everyone has an A or B protein on their red cells; those that have neither are type O, those with both are AB.  Rh, also known as D, is either present or not; making the person either Rh positive or negative.  There are tons of other proteins which can be present, but most people don't have them, so they're negative.  The problem is when a negative woman has a baby with a positive guy.  The baby has at least a 50:50 chance of also having that protein.  During pregnancy, it is virtually inevitable that a bit of the baby's blood gets into the mother's bloodstream and, if its red cells have a protein that the mom doesn't have; her immune system will rev up and make antibodies which can attack and destroy red cells that are positive.  However, not all of these proteins cause a significant immune response and, often, the amount of blood that the mom is exposed to isn't enough to generate a big antibody surge.  

As far as Josie claiming that her doctors had never ever heard of her particular problem, that's bullshit.  Maybe hadn't seen it before, but surely have heard of atypical antibodies.  Women can get exposed to the baby's blood either from a prior regular pregnancy or from a miscarriage, although the miscarriage has to be fairly far along in order for there to be enough blood to trigger the mom's immune system.  During subsequent pregnancies, if the baby she is carrying is also positive for the antibody; her body will produce a bunch more antibodies anytime any of the baby's blood mixes with hers.  These antibodies then cross the placenta and attack the baby's red cells.  Worst case scenario is that so many red cells are destroyed that the baby becomes severely anemic and goes into heart failure (hydrops fetalis).  Kids who become hydropic in utero will likely not survive so the key is to follow the mom's antibody titers and, if her levels rise to a certain point, do an intrauterine transfusion of the baby's blood, replacing it with blood that is negative for the antibody.  If a lot of red cells are destroyed, but not enough to cause severe anemia, the baby will be jaundiced.  Some of those kids also need exchange transfusions at birth to wash out the antibody and damaged cells.   So, Josie will be tested for antibody levels at intervals during the pregnancy and also have ultrasounds looking for signs of impending heart failure in the baby if her titers are rising.

Sorry for writing a book here.

[Heathen]

39 minutes ago, Notabug said:

Amniotic fluid embolisms are NOT caused by epidurals and do not run in families.  Essentially, there is a total body vascular collapse in the mother.  They most commonly occur during labor or right after delivery.  The woman is doing fine and then, in an instant, she suffers a cardiac arrest.  It was initially thought that this was triggered by amniotic fluid entering the mother's bloodstream via dilated uterine blood vessels, but, it seems more complicated than that.  Essentially, it is similar to anaphylactic shock, the most severe type of allergic reaction, but it is practically instantaneous; there is no rash, or hives or shortness of breath preceding it as there is with most allergic reactions.

I have personally witnessed two women who suffered AFE.  One was in labor, 6 cm dilated, she had a epidural.  The other had just delivered twins vaginally, no epidural.  In both cases, everything was going well; mom's blood pressure had been fine, the baby still in utero looked fine on the monitor, the twins were full term and healthy and vigorous.  In both cases, the woman commented that she didn't feel well and almost immediately had a seizure.  The cascade of events that then occur almost invariably result in DIC (disseminated intravascular coagulation) which leads to an inability of the blood to clot.  Most of these women bleed out rapidly, it's hard to run blood into them fast enough to keep up..  The most recent one I saw, a few years ago; was witnessed by the nurse and the woman's husband.  It was a big tertiary labor and delivery unit and there were half a dozen doctors in the room within seconds along with a full code team.  She was intubated and CPR started immediately.,  The house physician did a cesarean in the bed and got the baby out (he survived and was a healthy, happy preschooler last I heard).  By the time the baby was out, mom was in DIC, maybe 5 minutes from the start of the seizure.  She was bleeding from her incision as well as from her IV site initially, eventually, every prior needle stick, her lungs, her kidneys; everything was bleeding.  She got something like 17 units of blood and multiple rounds of platelets and clotting factors.  She also got steroids which seem to help in some cases.  It was a horror show.  Her husband stayed in the room (that's routine these days) and her parents were brought in from the waiting room.  I'll never forget her mom kneeling at the foot of the bed, holding her daughter's ankle and begging her to live.  After an hour or so, there was nothing left to do and we stopped trying to resuscitate.  Very similar story with the lady with twins, she also died.  

Anyway, that is apparently what happened to Kelton's mother.

As for Josie's issue; the interviews she's given show her to be not too well versed in medicine and not really understanding what the doctors told her.  No surprise there.  Everyone knows about Rh disease which can occur if a mom is Rh neg and her baby is positive.  All of factors that result in hemolytic disease of the newborn, like Rh, are due to various proteins which are present on the outer surface of our red blood cells.  The most famous are A and B, which determine our blood type.  Not everyone has an A or B protein on their red cells; those that have neither are type O, those with both are AB.  Rh, also known as D, is either present or not; making the person either Rh positive or negative.  There are tons of other proteins which can be present, but most people don't have them, so they're negative.  The problem is when a negative woman has a baby with a positive guy.  The baby has at least a 50:50 chance of also having that protein.  During pregnancy, it is virtually inevitable that a bit of the baby's blood gets into the mother's bloodstream and, if its red cells have a protein that the mom doesn't have; her immune system will rev up and make antibodies which can attack and destroy red cells that are positive.  However, not all of these proteins cause a significant immune response and, often, the amount of blood that the mom is exposed to isn't enough to generate a big antibody surge.  

As far as Josie claiming that her doctors had never ever heard of her particular problem, that's bullshit.  Maybe hadn't seen it before, but surely have heard of atypical antibodies.  Women can get exposed to the baby's blood either from a prior regular pregnancy or from a miscarriage, although the miscarriage has to be fairly far along in order for there to be enough blood to trigger the mom's immune system.  During subsequent pregnancies, if the baby she is carrying is also positive for the antibody; her body will produce a bunch more antibodies anytime any of the baby's blood mixes with hers.  These antibodies then cross the placenta and attack the baby's red cells.  Worst case scenario is that so many red cells are destroyed that the baby becomes severely anemic and goes into heart failure (hydrops fetalis).  Kids who become hydropic in utero will likely not survive so the key is to follow the mom's antibody titers and, if her levels rise to a certain point, do an intrauterine transfusion of the baby's blood, replacing it with blood that is negative for the antibody.  If a lot of red cells are destroyed, but not enough to cause severe anemia, the baby will be jaundiced.  Some of those kids also need exchange transfusions at birth to wash out the antibody and damaged cells.   So, Josie will be tested for antibody levels at intervals during the pregnancy and also have ultrasounds looking for signs of impending heart failure in the baby if her titers are rising.

Sorry for writing a book here.

To make matters worse, I think Kelton's mother delivered in a birthing center. Not to be morbid, but I wonder if she even survived long enough to make it to a hospital. 

Since Josie is still a fundie, and specifically a Bates, I always assumed that her "they never heard of my problem" was either gross exaggeration or an outright lie, Carlin-style, for attention. 

[cereality]

11 minutes ago, Heathen said:

Since Josie is still a fundie, and specifically a Bates, I always assumed that her "they never heard of my problem" was either gross exaggeration or an outright lie, Carlin-style, for attention. 

I take it as code for - the drs were explaining it in layman’s terms as they do for everyone but I had no clue what they were saying so I batted my eyelashes at my brilliant plumber headship and turns out he was equally clueless but we can’t admit that. So it’s easier to go with - the drs don’t know (or Carlin’s fave - drs don’t do anything anyway) (or John fave - they use SUCH big words, they say it’s x, so they say but what do they know it’s in God’s hands).

It’s alarming to see these people navigate healthcare. The females have been raised too stupid to understand anything bc they’d be in the care of genius headships who’d navigate the world for them. But turns out the headships are no better and don’t even have high school level comprehension and logic skills - so they can’t take in info and say - dr I have  question, does this mean x or y? So then they turn to what they know best - god speak.

While it sounds like it’s possible to monitor all the way to make sure the antibodies aren’t attacking too many of the baby’s red blood cells and causing problems - IDK sounds not worth it when you already have a couple kids.

[Absolom]

Even though there is monitoring, once born, the babies can be unsettlingly sick.  To me it's worse when you know that's what you're facing and knowing that you're responsible.  I keep thinking some of the health problems have to start shaking more of the Bates offspring into reconsidering the man-made rules they follow.  It seems some of the Duggars are now fine with some forms of birth control.  Alyssa had to use some BC so perhaps she'll decide it's OK for any reason.  

[Salacious Kitty]

Josie has admitted to using an IUD. This pregnancy was no mistake.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Salacious Kitty

[Absolom]

Hopefully she'll get another IUD.  We had three babies with the issues and that was enough for me.  Our third was not planned.  Maybe this one will convince them.  

[3 is enough]

Josie says they are going to wait until the baby is born to find out the sex.

Kind of surprising but maybe they figure if it’s another girl they won’t be as disappointed because they will  see her and hold her right away, rather than thinking about it for months.🤷🏼‍♀️

[ozziemom]

23 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

Josie says they are going to wait until the baby is born to find out the sex.

Kind of surprising but maybe they figure if it’s another girl they won’t be as disappointed because they will  see her and hold her right away, rather than thinking about it for months.🤷🏼‍♀️

Plus they avoid the filmed for SM gender reveal and the look of disappointment if it’s a girl. 

[BitterApple]

56 minutes ago, ozziemom said:

Plus they avoid the filmed for SM gender reveal and the look of disappointment if it’s a girl. 

 

1 hour ago, 3 is enough said:

Josie says they are going to wait until the baby is born to find out the sex.

Kind of surprising but maybe they figure if it’s another girl they won’t be as disappointed because they will  see her and hold her right away, rather than thinking about it for months.🤷🏼‍♀️

Agree with both. I remember Alyssa's gender reveal for Maci where neither she nor John could mask their disappointment quickly enough. The camera absolutely caught it and it was pretty obvious. 

While I don't think Josie or Kelton would openly resent another girl the way the Websters did, I think they would be a bit deflated they weren't having a son, especially if they had six+ months to think about it. 

Cynics on Reddit think she already knows and this is just Josie's way of keeping her followers invested in the pregnancy and her engagement up. Actually not a bad theory, considering. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by BitterApple

[cereality]

Someone remind me - how early in pregnancy can you find out the sex now? Kid is due in March so if she's 2-3 mos along, is that long enough to know?

Somehow I find it VERY hard to believe they don't know. IDK they are OBSESSED with all things pregnancy, can't understand any of the medical details of it even with their higher risk scenario, but they understand boy vs. girl - so I can see them leaning into the boy vs. girl thing and just not sharing.

FWIW the Websters' reveals have gone really badly and they may be trying to avoid that. I mean for Maci, Alyssa could not hide her disappointment and John was like - whatever I don't give a $hit. With the boy there was Alyssa's famous - haha I can favor him and if the girls complain I can tell him that's how boys get treated.

I could 1000% see the same with J&K. If it's a girl - neither will be able to contain their disappointment, Kelton won't even try to contain it. If it is a boy, 100% certain both would say something about how much more blessed they are now with a son blah blah. Though it'd still be better than A&J bc Willow is only 4. You can say certain stuff in front of a 4 yr old and they don't truly get it; Alyssa had no trouble saying she'd favor a boy in front of an 8 yr old who 100% understood what was being said.

If this one isn't a boy, pressure is on. I don't think Kelton will rest until he gets 2 sons. That means pressure is on to get boys with pregnancies nos. 4 and 5, and if that doesn't happen - then I think the road lengthens to maybe 6 or 7 kids.

As @BitterApple says - Kelton is someone who 100% sticks to his planned vision of life and I can't imagine his planned vision of life did not include a few sons, given that he came from a household with a majority of sons and his brother/father/son relationships seem to be important to him. Plus he's building a business he needs to pass down.

[GeeGolly]

I believe blood work done at around six weeks can reveal gender. Not sure if gender makes a difference with Josie's blood disorders, but surely she's had a shit ton of blood work by now. They either know, or have an envelope sitting at home with the gender.

[Notabug]

38 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I believe blood work done at around six weeks can reveal gender. Not sure if gender makes a difference with Josie's blood disorders, but surely she's had a shit ton of blood work by now. They either know, or have an envelope sitting at home with the gender.

It's around 10 weeks, however, you're right.  The actual lab report identifies the chromosomal composition including the sex chromosomes..  When the results come back, we tell patients not to open the result on their computer (all results go to the patient through their electronic chart) or they will see it.  For that matter, any pregnant woman can buy the test online for under $100, just like the vanity ultrasounds that most of these fundies get done.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Notabug

[AstridM]

Sex, not gender. 

[JAYJAY1979]

On 8/15/2023 at 12:37 PM, cereality said:

Do tell - I hadn't heard this detail before. KELTON controls whether Josie gets an epidural?? Not the woman laboring?? Damn I wouldn't be having any of his babies, let alone 5 of them. But then again I also wouldn't marry that douchebag and think he's ALL THAT bc OMG he's got a business.

While I'm sure she judges her business partner secretly for prioritizes travel over making babies, there is NO way she isn't a little jealous here - come on to be 24 and saddled with 3 kids!? But for Kelton and her cult upbringing, I could have seen her going to college, getting a business degree, working for a company gaining experience, and then starting a biz doing something more sophisticated than hair and selling barrettes. Frankly I could see her at a company in marketing doing software sales and the like if she was born into a different fam.

If he was a normal not brainwashed human, you'd think with the trauma his family endured he'd be the type who'd tell his gf/fiance/wife very early on that's he up for zero babies until they're at least age 30+ and feel that clock ticking and then they'll go to a big medical center and under the care of an experienced dr have one and then if that goes well MAYBE 2 and that's it. I mean they could do the same thing at age 25 or 28 or whatever but he only lost his mother around age 13 - to then find his wife 5 yrs later when she was only 14, rush to the altar 5 yrs after that and have a baby 9 mos later!? Uh I guess these people don't believe in healing and time.

But for all we know they see it as - Kelton's mother passed doing what she was meant to do - have babies. 

So the talk on Reddit is that whatever blood disorder Josie has is not as simple as rH factor but something more complicated, for which there is no prevention, and it affects that baby [IDK if it's harmful to the mother or not]. Apparently that's why Hazel ended up in NICU and was lucky to only have jaundice. But babies can end up with worse things like heart failure!? And apparently it is/may be progressive - like worse for future pregnancies than for earlier ones. Uh???

What's the deal having another baby then? Whatever happens - it's the baby's destiny not ours!?

 

We all know Tori would not have had Kelton's babies.. since that girl was insistent on an epidural the second she got to the hospital LOL

I would assume the person in pain of labor would be the one to decide if an epidural is needed or not.  Is it for real that Kelton actually forbid an epidural or is that just a rumor?

I don't know all that much about Kelton/Josie's story... but didn't he kind of like her a lot back when she was like 15 or so... and Gil basically said she was too young to be thinking so seriously about a relationship/courtship?  If this is true, maybe he figured Josie was laid back enough that she would accept being controlled.  We all know Erin, Alyssa, Tori and Carlin wouldn't have accepted that.

[AstridM]

18 minutes ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

We all know Tori would not have had Kelton's babies.. since that girl was insistent on an epidural the second she got to the hospital LOL

I would assume the person in pain of labor would be the one to decide if an epidural is needed or not.  Is it for real that Kelton actually forbid an epidural or is that just a rumor?

I don't know all that much about Kelton/Josie's story... but didn't he kind of like her a lot back when she was like 15 or so... and Gil basically said she was too young to be thinking so seriously about a relationship/courtship?  If this is true, maybe he figured Josie was laid back enough that she would accept being controlled.  We all know Erin, Alyssa, Tori and Carlin wouldn't have accepted that.

Yes, he was literally pursuing her as a middle school aged child of 14. . . 

[Tdoc72]

4 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

We all know Tori would not have had Kelton's babies.. since that girl was insistent on an epidural the second she got to the hospital LOL

I would assume the person in pain of labor would be the one to decide if an epidural is needed or not.  Is it for real that Kelton actually forbid an epidural or is that just a rumor?

 

I checked Tubi—Season 9, episode 1 (near the end) Hospital staff recommended an epidural for Josie due to her long painful labor. J&K prayed on it and that’s what they decided. And he seemed happy her pain was gone. I didn’t get the impression it was a permission thing; more like he wanted to be comfortable with the decision. 

[Salacious Kitty]

1 hour ago, Tdoc72 said:

I checked Tubi—Season 9, episode 1 (near the end) Hospital staff recommended an epidural for Josie due to her long painful labor. J&K prayed on it and that’s what they decided. And he seemed happy her pain was gone. I didn’t get the impression it was a permission thing; more like he wanted to be comfortable with the decision. 

Which pregnancy was this? 

I'm surprised that Kelton allowed it. He's been openly critical of epidurals in the past.

[SMama]

15 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Which pregnancy was this? 

I'm surprised that Kelton allowed it. He's been openly critical of epidurals in the past.

But seeing his wife in so much pain would naturally make him reconsider. 

[Salacious Kitty]

1 minute ago, SMama said:

But seeing his wife in so much pain would naturally make him reconsider. 

That's why I'm curious which pregnancy this was. Did he make her go totally unmedicated with Willow, but caved with Hazel? Or did he allow the epidural with Willow? 

(the "seasons" of BUB make no sense. There were often two a year, so I don't know where Season 9 was filmed.)

[AstridM]

14 minutes ago, SMama said:

But seeing his wife in so much pain would naturally make him reconsider. 

One would hope . . . 

[Heathen]

24 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

That's why I'm curious which pregnancy this was. Did he make her go totally unmedicated with Willow, but caved with Hazel? Or did he allow the epidural with Willow? 

(the "seasons" of BUB make no sense. There were often two a year, so I don't know where Season 9 was filmed.)

It was her first. I just rewatched that episode. 

[Salacious Kitty]

Well then,  there's hope she got an epidural with Hazel as well. I sure hope she did, if that's what she wanted. 

[AgathaC]

Thank you for that explanation, @Notabug! Extremely informative (and sad). I’m the oldest of five kids born to an Rh-positive father and Rh-negative mother. I can remember my mom having to go have some sort of testing done when she was pregnant. There were never any problems, thank goodness. But I do recall asking my (doctor) dad about it and him explaining Rh in basic terms (though the part about how, many years ago, I probably would have been an only child was what really fascinated me at the time). Anyway, I was probably 10 or 11 and even I understood what he meant. It’s not that hard.

These fundies and their attitude towards health and medicine drives me nuts!

Edited August 17, 2023 by AgathaC

[Notabug]

25 minutes ago, AgathaC said:

Thank you for that explanation, @Notabug! Extremely informative (and sad). I’m the oldest of five kids born to an Rh-positive father and Rh-negative mother. I can remember my mom having to go have some sort of testing done when she was pregnant. There were never any problems, thank goodness. But I do recall asking my (doctor) dad about it and him explaining Rh in basic terms (though the part about how, many years ago, I probably would have been an only child was what really fascinated me at the time). Anyway, I was probably 10 or 11 and even I understood what he meant. It’s not that hard.

These fundies and their attitude towards health and medicine drives me nuts!

Yes, back in the day, if an Rh negative woman became sensitized (developed anit-Rh antibodies), things would get progressively worse with each pregnancy if the baby was Rh positive; to the point where she would end up having a stillbirth every time.  One of my aunts got sensitized during her first delivery which is usually when it happens.  Her second son was jaundiced and needed a transfusion after delivery.  At that point, she was told not to have any more kids as they would not survive and she didn't.

Nowadays, with Rhogam, Rh disease is nearly extinct.  In my 40+ years in Obstetrics, I have maybe seen 5 women who were Rh sensitized, mostly from getting improperly crossmatched blood after serious accidents as a kid, etc.   It's probably been 20 years since I've seen it at all.  

[Meow Mix]

So according to @Notabug's excellent explanation, not having an epidural would have made no difference in his mother's situation.  It sounds like symptoms present right before things go really pear shaped.

The thing I remember Josie saying about Willow's birth was that when she passed out from the pain, she came to only to find Kelton in hysterics over it.  So at least one person had to go see to him to calm him down and keep him from possibly passing out when everyone in that room should have been focused on helping her give birth safely.  Kelton needs to grow up and get some education.  

[65mickey]

Kelton and his dad, granddad and brothers are in Alaska for a fishing trip. So Josie and the girls are off to Arizonia for some girl time. I have to hand it to her. It doesn't seem like she is attached at the hip to Kelton. Good for her to be able to take off with her girls without "her man" in tow.  

Edited August 20, 2023 by 65mickey

[Heathen]

4 hours ago, Meow Mix said:

 

The thing I remember Josie saying about Willow's birth was that when she passed out from the pain, she came to only to find Kelton in hysterics over it.  So at least one person had to go see to him to calm him down and keep him from possibly passing out when everyone in that room should have been focused on helping her give birth safely.  Kelton needs to grow up and get some education.  

I think we should give him a little slack about his wife, whom he clearly loves, passing out in labor. He lost his mother in childbirth, for crying out loud, and he's young and ignorant. It would be shocking if he DIDN'T associate losing his mother with what Josie was going through at that moment. 

It isn't as if he was the only person in the room, or even one of two people and the other had to help him. There were other people in the room to focus on Josie.  

[3 is enough]

I did not have UP for later seasons so I missed Josie’s birth stories. For some reason from her Instagram posts I got the impression she wanted to keep her experience more private. I guess that was not the case.  Too bad. I was impressed that they didn’t want a circus but it appears the cameras were present after all. 
Fainting dads are not uncommon in delivery rooms so Kelton would have been taken care of without compromising Josie’s care.

 My son is not squeamish at all but when his youngest was born everything suddenly happened really fast and the doctor needed him to help because the nurse had stepped out for a minute. He almost passed out after the baby was born and they made him sit and got him some orange juice. He got a lot of teasing about that after the fact. 😂

I am far from being Kelton’s biggest fan but after what happened to his mom seeing his wife pass out in the delivery room would have been his worst fear come to life. 

[65mickey]

There was no filming for the show of Josie in labor. They showed still  pictures and talked abut it at lot but Josie made it clear that only her mom and Kelton would be in the labor room in addtition to the medical staff. While Erin who was pregnagnt at the same time stated that she wanted everyone there. 

[Salacious Kitty]

I read elsewhere that these babies sometimes don't do well with induced labor and end up being c-sections. Has this possibility even crossed Lydia's dim mind? 

[Meow Mix]

18 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

 

I am far from being Kelton’s biggest fan but after what happened to his mom seeing his wife pass out in the delivery room would have been his worst fear come to life. 

I want to clarify my previous post.  I understand that Josie having any difficulty was going to freak Kelton out.  That's completely understandable given that I doubt he ever fully processed the trauma of his mother's death.  My issue was that because he did not understand what happened to his mother he insisted that Josie not get any sort of pain management.  Her passing out could have been prevented if he had just expressed his concerns early on and let the medical professionals explain what really happened and that it had nothing to do with the epidural.  I hope they have since learned more about what happened and Josie can have a better experience.