Shaw: I Only Feel Half the Feels

[mad_typist]

Use this thread to discuss our favorite sociopathic gray hat. I actually love what Sarah Shahi has done with the character (to the point where you could pretty much swap out Shaw for Reese and the show wouldn't miss a beat).

[Saint TV]

I like Shaw. I've liked her from her very first episode. But replace Reese? Over my cold, dead body. Reese is Batman with the pretty. I am shallow and enjoy that kind of thing.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Please don't bean me, but I detest Shaw. Hate her, loathe her and find her totally unnecessary and more so because she takes up screen time which should go to Reese. He is the Batman without the cape and cowl and the actor has so much more gravitas than Shahi.

I'm petty that way.

It might also be because the show runners only put her in the show due to how "hot" they both find her, and that they created Shaw because of Shahi. Meaning there was no character for whom they were looking to see who they could cast. But saw Shahi and decided to create Shaw if that makes sense.

running for cover with a tarp covering my head

[FormerMod-a1]

They (writers, TPTB) have made her tolerable for me, but I really wish she weren't a regular character.  If she appeared as often as Zoe did, or Elias did, that would be fine for me.  She's just on too often, and I find her mostly redundant with Reese.  His screen time seems to have been diminished with her joining on full time.

[Giselle]

I like her. I have from the beginning and was thrilled when she became a regular.

I'm glad Root is still around too.

[CoderLady]

I think making her unemotional and establishing a clinical reason for it was brilliant. I've hated how pretty much all front-and-center women on TV dramas are at the mercy of their emotions all the time and more so at pivotal dramatic moments. By unplugging Shaw from that they have to write her with more intelligent and deliberative motivations, which makes her a more interesting character, at least to me. And when she does do something emotional like get bright-eyed over the character Nestor Carbonell played in the latest episode, it means something.

Edited April 4, 2014 by CoderLady

[Myriad]

Please don't bean me, but I detest Shaw.

I used to hate her too, right when she was introduced last season in that episode where our regular characters acted as guest stars.  Has it changed?  Only slightly.  As in very very very slightly.  There have been a couple of scenes where, strangely enough, she didn't send me running away from my screen, arms in the air, screaming, or just stay there and seethe in a basin of hot, boiling frustration.

It's like they should rewind and try again, because they did it all wrong.  Starting from the actress, who for some weird reason opted to be a feminine clone of Reese adorned with some Stanton colours.  Although, maybe the actress shouldn't take 100% of the blame, as it may have been a writers/director decision.  Either way, it's still a failure in my eyes.  The plot serves her, she doesn't serve the plot.  I understand that you also hate Root, but the reason I can enjoy Root is that she does take the plot forward, she does play a valid role, and we can say that without Root, a whole part of the story could not be told.  Shaw?  Remove her and the only thing that it changes is that we would get more Reese, which, you know, hello, writers?  Was part of the leads from the start.

I can only grudgingly admit that she wasn't as bad in the last episode, even slightly more relevant.  Then I discovered two things.  First, I'm playing hard to get with her.  I don't want to like her at all because somewhere my 5-year-old self wants to hold grudges and pout.  Second, although the banter between Reese and her worked well in that scenario, I'm afraid that the writers will super dooper overuse that kind of relationship and force Shaw on us even further.  I don't like that she diminishes people on a continual basis, it's not something fun to watch.  And morally, I don't agree that she'd be the one to consistently bash Reese, when he's so far ahead of her psychologically and emotionally, with at least as much, if not more, damaging experiences behind him.

She's not an organic addition to this show, and they might get their footing right in the long run, but I doubt I'll ever become a supporter of this... this... frustrating new character prompted by a wife's protests to get more attractive ladies amongst the regulars.  Gah!

[dippydee]

Remove her and the only thing that it changes is that we would get more Reese, which, you know, hello, writers? Was part of the leads from the start.

Wasn't she brought in at least partly because JC wanted an easier schedule? It makes sense that she's similar to him if she's meant to help share his role as the muscle.

I don't mind Shaw so much. I've been a fan of the actress since Life so that's fine for me. I think she's gradually fitting in better and better as the show goes on.

Edited April 4, 2014 by dippydee

[Mars477]

I really like Shaw a lot.  In some ways, I actually prefer her to Reese (such as in background) and I like how they're both similar in capabilities but diametrically opposed in personality.  And I'm very happy that she's not the standard Female Lead character, who's always the nicest, most emotional of the lot and acts as the team's Heart.  She definitely cannot be called The Chick of the team, which is fresh.

It helps that I'm a fan of the actress.  Sarah Shahi certainly has had a varied career, bouncing from flirty sexpots to stone badasses of varying degrees, but she brings heart to what could have been a very archetypal character.  This is CBS after all, they could have brought in a Ziva (and that would have sucked).

[CoderLady]

Good point about her non-Chickitude (and darn you for making me go into that black hole of fascinating time wasters, TV Tropes. I lost a whole half-hour there before I could get back here!). I've always liked her no-nonsense attitude - she's always got your back but you're not getting any hugs after the smoke clears and the bodies are counted.

[Baltron9000]

Shaw might be my favorite character on television at the moment. Something about her just hits me right. With her and Reese together, my lady calls them 'The Sociopath comedy hour'

[FormerMod-a1]

Under normal circumstances, I would like this character.  They've even managed to make Sarah Shahi tolerable for me (in the past she has killed my enjoyment of any show she appeared in).  But, that they messed up the team dynamic so much by bringing both her and Root as regular cast members, and killed off Carter, I just can't like her here.  I miss the old dynamics so much.  If they had her as semi-recurring like Zoe was, or Elias, etc, that would have been fine.  Even better, I think they should have spun her off into her own show, with Northern Lights and the relevants.  Or, if they want her "rogue", maybe another chapter for the irrelevants in another city working with Root.

[Mars477]

I have to say I greatly prefer the new dynamic, with Shaw being a regular working with the team, over the old dynamic which was just Reese and Finch with Carter and Fusco on the outside with a toe in the door.  Shaw brings really appealing relationships to the table with all of the other principals, with Finch trying to rehabilitate her, her odd friendship with Fusco, and the bickering siblings deal she has with Reese.  Root can challenge and serve as a foil for Finch far more effectively as the voice of the Machine than she did as a freelance hacker/assassin.  Plus, ever since Fusco beat the shit out of Simmons he's caught a second wind and a new lease on life.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Mars477

[photo fox]

I pretty much hate her, and I apologize, but I can't really offer any solid reasons why. But I'll try. I don't like the actress, and I think they're trying too hard to make her the anti-Chick. She can't wear a dress! Or walk in heels! She doesn't feel or even understand human emotions! She's practically a man! Since, you know, you can't be feminine and badass.

I agree with aquarian1 that I would find her far more effective - and palatable - if she were used more like Zoe. A cooperative associate with a special set of skills that Reese and Finch call on when they need those particular skills. There's just too much of her for me.

Plus, her presence is parallel in my mind with some of the other developments that I'm not overly excited about, namely less Reese (and Finch) and more emphasis on the sci-fi/serial aspects of the show.

[riley702]

I've come around and really like her now. She has a good sense of comedic timing. And she likes Bear. That counts for a lot.

[Mysis]

Hi all.  I like Shaw now too.  I didn't like her at all at first but have come to appreciate her character.  I like the actress, though I haven't seen her in anything else.  I also never liked Root and wasn't thrilled about her greater role.  Part of it I think was because I loved the relationships between the original four and really liked Carter and hated to see her leave the show.  I have started to like Root a little more now; it always cracks me up to see her come in somewhere, guns blazing!

I started to like Shaw more with the episode with the young girl who asked her if she was a robot.  I thought I could see a little bit of feeling deep down inside instead of always the total blank, unemotional façade.  And, of course, anyone who likes Bear can't be too bad in my book.

[Mars477]

I liked Shaw from the beginning.  Does that make me a hipster?

Seriously though, "Relevance" was fucking awesome (and probably the only way you could ever have an episode from the perspective of the Number of the Week without it turning out horribly).  Plus, the corresponding episode from Finch and Reese's viewpoint would have been much more boring.

[Julia]

I liked her when they introduced her - I kind of fell a little in love when she was calmly explaining how whatever her neurological condition is would mean she wouldn't feel bad about killing the drug dealers - but I fell out of love for a little while while they ramped up the badass. She's settled into being something I see as more realistic, lately, and I'm warming to her kind of a lot.

[Jlina]

I think Resse needs Shaw.  It'd be darn lonely for him out on the streets with Carter gone and she matches his personality.  She's beautiful too - that'll bring out some haters, but the backstory to her was fascinating and I'm on the team of girl=kick ass is a GOOD, good thing on television. 

 

Before Shaw, I had only Kensie on NCIS LA. Shaw's better.  I really like that we've seen emotion from her, too. The hug for the kid, the smile for Nestor; she's not just a robot and she's a damn good soldier for the team.

[IndependentMind]

It took me awhile to warm up to her although I adore Sarah Shahi from "Life". I felt that she took away screentime from Carter and especially Fusco. I felt towards season 2 there was too much and I resented her.

But after Carter left and they put Root and Shaw together, I really like their dynamics. I started to warm up to her and now, I enjoy Shaw.

I don't mind that she does the ass kicking most of the time since I read that Jim has asked to have him do less physical stuff.

I would rather have him do less physical fighting than have him leave due to exhaustion.

[IndependentMind]

I wonder though if they will make Shaw or Root or both gay. That would surely be very interesting and very bold move by the show and especially CBS.

[Mars477]

I wonder though if they will make Shaw or Root or both gay. That would surely be very interesting and very bold move by the show and especially CBS.

Shaw might be bi, but she at least likes boys.  See: Nestor Carbonell, plus the one night stands she implies in "Lady Killer".

 

I really like Reese and Shaw as each others' annoying siblings only with more gunfire, and hope that they avoid changing that.

[IndependentMind]

Watching the interviews with both Sarah and Amy, they are aware of Root/Shaw fans or shippers. And as Sarah said "It's foreplay for both Shaw and Root."

I love Reese and Shaw as fighting siblings.

It will be interesting what season 4 brings. Amy and Sarah tweeted that they are in NYC now.

[Bort]

Shaw might be bi, but she at least likes boys.  See: Nestor Carbonell, plus the one night stands she implies in "Lady Killer".

Shaw implied one-night-stands but she didn't say anything about them being boys. I think it's still fairly wide open there.

[IndependentMind]

Yeah. True.

I like both Sarah and Amy. Their characters are different and Root is just crazy.

I would also love to see Kara back. We never really saw her body so there is still a possibility that she is alive. I love Anna Parisse.

Edited July 11, 2014 by IndependentMind

[sylvester749]

Gotta say, Shaw is absolutely my favorite character. I think she brings in a lot of humor to the show with all of her snark. It's really cool having a badass female character, extra points for her being not-white, who isn't FEMININE but isn't afraid to be feminine. She seems like she gets uncomfortable in dresses, but she also doesn't really seem like she's afraid to play that part confidently if she needs to. Definitely seems modeled off of Buffy Summers, although with less emotions, which is fascinating.

[DEM]

I don't get Buffy Summers vibes from Shaw at all, but I agree with everything else you said.

 

Based on comments she made at Comic Con last weekend, it seems like Sarah Shahi wants to push Shaw back in a darker direction.  Bring it on, I say!

[IndependentMind]

And I love what Amy Acker says when Sarah Shahi said that. Her reaction was priceless. She said "What?" lol.

[immortalfrieza]

Shaw is for me a much more complex character than people give her credit for. I also don't see her as having "half the feels" or sociopathic or anything like that, more like she's just pragmatic and is someone that has a tight grip over her emotions, something which is necessary in her line of work. Also, judging by flashback scene where her father dies her lack of emotion can easily be explained by Shaw shutting down emotionally to deal with the trauma of that incident and never really recovering. Besides, I don't recall seeing anybody complain when Reese has been just as robotic as fans claim Shaw is most of the time pretty much the entire run of the show.

Edited August 3, 2014 by immortalfrieza

[DEM]

I don't know what the original poster had in mind when titling this thread, but for me it's a pretty accurate description.  I haven't seen much support in the show for alternatives like "deep well-springs of emotion that she doesn't know how to understand" or repression.  Having psychopathic personality doesn't make someone 'not complex'.  IMO, all of the main characters are complex.  Shaw and Root share some clinical traits, but they also differ in several ways. Shaw and Reese may share a profession, but their emotional "terseness" comes from very different places.

 

Independent Mind, Acker was reacting specifically to the Samaritan idea, not darker Shaw in general.  I take heart in Nolan's comment about S4 that Shaw "still isn't crazy about the knees."

Edited August 4, 2014 by DEM

[IndependentMind]

DEM - Amy was reacting to Sarah saying that she could see Shaw joining Samaritan and Amy did not like that at all. LOL. She wants Shaw and Root as a team always.

 

Those two ladies are hilarious how much their characters together.

Edited August 4, 2014 by IndependentMind

[DEM]

bringing this over from the All Seasons thread because it's only about Shaw.

I like Shaw a lot, but I agree with this--it seems to me that the members of the writing team aren't all on the same page in terms of how/how much her disorder affects her. Though I do think they evened out a bit in the second half of S3.

stealinghome, I don't have much substantial to add, but I felt compelled to reply to this because I strongly agree with all of what you wrote. By the end of the season I'd come to believe that all important Shaw moments should be reviewed by Amanda Segel: She's the only writer I trust to have a clear vision of the character as created.  Normally I would add Nolan to the list, but the fact that the inconsistency is getting past him makes me doubt that he can see the problem.

 

Some of the writers seem to view Shaw's personality, psychological history, and ethics as Reese-like and, therefore, amenable to a standard 'redemption arc' when, in fact, Shaw is closer on those facets to Root and, as such, any changes she makes should be driven more by rules than personality development. Thus, one episode would have Shaw giving parenting advice or talking about wanting to get better at being nice to people, and another ep she'd be, well, Shaw.  That said, I did see evening out by the end of the season, so perhaps someone on the writing staff finally noticed the problem.

 

I would add that I thought they did a better job illustrating Shaw's unique contribution to the team when she was on the edge of it in early S3. The downside of those early eps was that they focussed too much on the "hulk smash" angle, rather than on ethics and tactics.

[stealinghome]

That said, I did see evening out by the end of the season, so perhaps someone on the writing staff finally noticed the problem.

I wonder if part of it was that they felt like they "got" Shaw to where she needed to be by the end of the season, psychologically and emotions-wise. imo, what they were going for with Shaw in general in S3 was someone discovering and learning to roll with the emotions she does have--like, most definitely she does have a much more muted sense of affect than most people, but I also think that the show did a pretty good job of showing that she had previously been pretty closed off to the emotions she actually does feel, too. Whether because of her job with Northern Lights and what that entailed, or because of the way she was obviously devastated (in a quiet, Shawlike way) by the way she got kicked out of medicine, it seems like for a long time she told herself she had absolutely no emotions when that's pretty manifestly not the case--just look at the way she went on the warpath when her partner got killed, you don't do that if you didn't care about his death/being betrayed by your superiors. So the getting there was rocky and definitely the writers sometimes crossed into the world of feelings a little too much, but maybe it evened out because they got her where she needed to be by the end? At any rate, hopefully they can keep the even-ness going into next season.

 

The downside of those early eps was that they focussed too much on the "hulk smash" angle, rather than on ethics and tactics.

I'm hopeful that in S4, with Shaw being more away from the team (I'm assuming they'll all be acting more independently in general than they have in the past), they'll bring some of that back. I tend to think that the show gave short shrift to Shaw's tactical thinking in general last season--they not infrequently portrayed her more like a standard soldier than a highly-trained operative used to working solo, clandestine missions. So. Being "undercover" in life may do good things for the Shaw character (or it may not!).

Edited September 15, 2014 by stealinghome

[DEM]

 

just look at the way she went on the warpath when her partner got killed, you don't do that if you didn't care about his death/being betrayed by your superiors

Ah, but she was driven by anger, which she has never denied feeling. By way of analogy: The opposite of happiness is not sadness; rather it is simply the absence of happiness. Happy and Sad are two separate emotions.  My sense is that Shaw connects to people with whom she's been around long enough AND who pass the trust test, but only to a certain degree.  Some of the writers, OTOH, seemed to think that the next inevitable step after killing bad guys is caring about good guys. That's simply not true for everyone.  Moreover, Shaw stated and showed her emotional limits in the very same episode in which she sought vengeance for Cole.  Thus, I never took her description to Genrika about her emotions as being statements of absolute.  I saw them as relative. That is, if my maximum amount of Fear is a 3/10, does that actually 'count' as feeling fear in the way that most people would reckon?  Clinically speaking, the answer is 'not really.' That would be marked as 'lack of fear.'

 

Another analogy: The military (or intelligence operatives) are not the police and the police are not social workers.  It seems to me that Finch is not clear or consistent on those distinctions but Shaw very much is.

 

These conflicts, especially as they pertained to the operations of Team Machine, were ripe for exploration with Shaw.  Some of the writers delved into that, whilst other writers took Finch's conflation as the gold standard. The latter approach doesn't make much sense to me because I don't see the point in bringing in a character who is distinctly different from Reese and Finch if you're not going to use that character to broaden the discussion, so to speak.

 

 

I tend to think that the show gave short shrift to Shaw's tactical thinking in general last season--they not infrequently portrayed her more like a standard soldier than a highly-trained operative used to working solo, clandestine missions.

Yes, this is so very true.

Edited September 15, 2014 by DEM

[pcta]

I thought I would miss Shaw a lot. But, I find I am quite happy without her.

[DioxinBlues]

I thought I would miss Shaw a lot. But, I find I am quite happy without her.

I miss her terribly. The second half of Season Four suffered mightily in her absence, though it was delightful to see Vengeance Root in action. 

[kahauna]

If I hadn't seen Sarah Shahi's name in the opening scene credits for Season 3, I never would have watched the show to begin with, but the epi that I watched was "Liberty," I was hooked immediately and haven't missed anything since then. I have also seen the two seasons I missed, but it was Sarah/Sameen that "brought me" to PoI and I hope we get her back!

[DNR]

Same here Kahauna! I had no interest in POI till I discovered one day that SS was in the cast . Can't believe I almost missed such a fantastic show - Mr DNR is hooked as well and we never like the same shows ( POI bonding lol ) Amy Acker is another surprise - love her as Root! Binge watching s1-4 in anticipation of S5, sad it's ending

[Gigi43]

There were times when I missed Shaw but I think for me knowing she was only gone because of the pregnancy/that they really had no choice impacted how I viewed her absence as I was always confident she'd be back after. When Shaw first came on I was worried that she was going to take over and with Carter still around back then I really didn't want to watch the originals take a backseat to her. But thankfully she ended up integrating into the show and I really really hope we'll get episodes of Shaw fully back with the team (and reunited with Bear!) before the end.

[elle]

Quote

and last we heard of Shaw's mother, she was on her way to collect Shaw from the car accident that killed Mr Shaw.

Grabbing this response to my comment about Shaw's parents from the another thread...

I caught the episode where we see the aftermath of the car accident.  I know they were trying to establish a point about Shaw's character, but I always wonder why the Firefighters/EMTs comment on her lack of emotion in they way they do when she is sitting in the back of the ambulance.  Why would they have not thought that this poor child was in shock to explain her very odd reaction?  

Edited May 28, 2016 by elle

[Jack Shaftoe]

I am now reading the reactions to Relevance (the episode where Shaw was introduced) on the old TwoP forum (Wayback Machine for the win) and it's interesting to see how many posters totally hated her and the episode. Personally I loved her from the start and Relevance remains one of my favorite episodes. 6,741 was one of the most heartbreaking  episodes I have ever watched. I love Shaw's snarking and badass moments (like going to Yogorov and using him as a blood donor as if that's the most normal thing in the world). As mentioned above, the show has been a bit inconsistent with her supposed lack of empathy but I still think she is a really interesting character and I really hope she lives in the end of the show.

[Camera One]

I found that first episode incredibly boring. But Shaw has grown on me significantly, as they slowly showed her more human side.  Back then, she just felt like a video game character.

[Rumsy4]

Shaw was too much of a stereotypical "badass" female character when they first introduced her. It took me a long time to warm up to her. 

[Cranberry]

I started liking her in season three's "Lady Killer" when she was trying to impress/bond with Carter by showing off her gun (read: thrusting her gun excitedly at Carter). I didn't really warm up to her until "Razgovor," though, when she oh-so-awkwardly hugged little spy Genrika after Gen made one of the best observations about her: "I figured you out. It's not that you don't have feelings. It's just like the volume is turned way down. Like the sound on an old tape. The voices are there. You just have to listen."

I liked Shaw's "I'm only in it for the dog" in that episode, too.

[Agent Dark]

I loved Shaw from the first scene she appeared in.  I find it interesting that when Nolan and Plageman were talking about their favourite episodes of the show, they said Relevance was basically the pilot episode they'd always wanted to shoot.  It's basically a little movie wrapped up in a TV episode, which sort of makes sense considering that Nolan wrote and directed it.  And the peel back of the corner of the curtain that we'd previously hadn't seen behind was such a great way to expand the show's breadth. 

[elle]

I am posting this clip of the cast, sans Harold and Bear, being interviewed at the 2013 NY Comic Con.  The highlight for me is Sarah Shai (Synergy!) . If I did not already <3 Shaw-Sarah Shai, this interview would have tipped the scales in her favor for me.*

I love her response to the interviewer's question then going all fangirl with the interviewer!  Who knew!  What elevates this even more for me is Amy Acker's "mom vibe" as she watches the two of them bonding over this.

It is a fun clip all around with Kevin Chapman singing and both his and Jim Caviezel's shoe stories.  Jim Caviezell really gets a chance to shine showing off his impersonation skills.  (for the young'uns out there, the last one he does is an impersonation of Billy Crystal's impersonation of Fernando Lamas.)

* Now, I really want to see her play Nancy Drew!

Edited June 5, 2016 by elle

[DeepRunner]

Over the weekend, I did some binge-watching of S3 of PoI. There were episodes with Shaw that reminded me why it is I and so many people really appreciate Shaw as a character. She was the flip side of the same coin as Reese, and she made it believable. It will be sad when Shaw and the rest of the PoI characters leave the stage for the final time tomorrow.