S01.E02: Episode 2

[Door County Cherry]

Released 9/13/19

Quote

Marie struggles with the fallout from her retraction.  Three years later, in Colorado, Detective Karen Duvall investigates a strikingly similar attack. 

 

[Corgi-ears]

Edit the statement-taking sequences from Ep 1 and this ep together, and you will have a pretty effective training video for police departments. Heartbreaking.

[SnoGirl]

I stan Merritt Wever. Wow. Why isn’t she in everything? What a night and day difference from episode one.

[sadie]

Glad I kept going. Ep 2 did not disappoint. The police work from the bozos in ep1 to these very effective women in ep2 redeemed my belief in humanity. It also shows the difference between a troubled kid with shaky support and a more educated confident one. How the two victims handled themselves was an interesting contrast. And when Toni Collete finally showed up! Wheee! I’m in! 

[Swartz]

Merritt Weaver is the best.  She was the best thing about Nurse Jackie and she's going to be my favorite here too.  I love TC too but Merritt Weaver!

[Door County Cherry]

It was a little jarring to go from everyone doing everything wrong in the first episode to everyone doing everything right in this episode.  I'm not just talking about the cops but even the nurse/doctor was more professional. 

[mjc570]

I am a pretty unemotional person  but I actually teared up when Amber, who had held herself together so painfully started to whimper when talking to her friend on the phone (thank goodness the friend came through for her).  The contrasts with Marie are just so obvious.  Yes, we get it.    I'm glad I kept watching, I was pretty depressed after the first episode. 

I don't know if it was in this episode or the next one, but there is a statement that because the perp is so DNA conscious (I would have said forensically aware in general, there didn't seem to be any fiber, soil etc) he must be a smart criminal or a cop.  I'm not sure that is so true anymore, I think everyone is aware of leaving any kind of evidence (not just fingerprints like in the old days), even if most people are not aware of how sophisticated the technology is.  Rapists making their victims shower or scrub themselves with bleach is something that I've read in a number of books. 

[2727]

1 hour ago, Door County Cherry said:

I'm not just talking about the cops but even the nurse/doctor was more professional. 

The medical interactions were interesting to me. The nurse certainly wasn't mean, and I wouldn't even call her indifferent. She was just very pragmatic and unemotional. I found that to be very true to life.

I thought it was pretty standard practice thee days to have someone trained as a rape counselor stay with the victim at the police station and hospital to provide guidance and emotional support, but I guess that varies by area.

[Corgi-ears]

3 hours ago, mjc570 said:

I don't know if it was in this episode or the next one, but there is a statement that because the perp is so DNA conscious (I would have said forensically aware in general, there didn't seem to be any fiber, soil etc) he must be a smart criminal or a cop.  I'm not sure that is so true anymore, I think everyone is aware of leaving any kind of evidence (not just fingerprints like in the old days), even if most people are not aware of how sophisticated the technology is.  Rapists making their victims shower or scrub themselves with bleach is something that I've read in a number of books. 

I think you're right, though we also have to remember that Karen's and Grace's investigation is taking place in 2011. In later episodes,

Spoiler

1. FBI agent Taggart makes the exact same point you do, even referencing how CSI (which, even in 2011, had been on the air for more than a decade oh my god I AM SO OLD) had taught people to be more DNA conscious;

2. And, of course, it turns out that the rapist wasn't a cop, just someone who bought a rape forensics textbook that was written to train cops but, OOPS, lots and lots of people had bought for reasons we shudder to think about. "Someone didn't think that one through."

[Quilt Fairy]

21 hours ago, mjc570 said:

I am a pretty unemotional person  but I actually teared up when Amber, who had held herself together so painfully started to whimper when talking to her friend on the phone (thank goodness the friend came through for her).  The contrasts with Marie are just so obvious. 

Yeah, watching Amber's interview I was thinking that either that is a very bad actress or they are trying to show us that different women react differently to trauma. 

[Cheezwiz]

On 9/14/2019 at 7:22 PM, mjc570 said:

I am a pretty unemotional person  but I actually teared up when Amber, who had held herself together so painfully started to whimper when talking to her friend on the phone (thank goodness the friend came through for her).  The contrasts with Marie are just so obvious.  Yes, we get it.    I'm glad I kept watching, I was pretty depressed after the first episode. 

Same. I wasn't sure if I would be able to continue, but I'm glad I did. So many great actresses in this show - the actress who plays Amber is Danielle Madonald, who has appeared in all kinds of things lately and is wonderful. I completely understood why she finally became emotional when she had to call her friend. I think once you tell someone you know, as opposed to law enforcement or medical officials, it actually becomes real.

And I had no clue Toni Colette was also in this. So, now we have two bad-ass female detectives.

[Whimsy]

On 9/14/2019 at 10:22 PM, mjc570 said:

I am a pretty unemotional person  but I actually teared up when Amber, who had held herself together so painfully started to whimper when talking to her friend on the phone (thank goodness the friend came through for her).  The contrasts with Marie are just so obvious.  Yes, we get it.    I'm glad I kept watching, I was pretty depressed after the first episode. 

 I remember as a kid being able to hold it together until I would see my mom and then I would start to cry. I think that is a common thing for a lot of people who are able to hold their emotions in check with people they don’t know, but then when they have the unconditional love of their friends and family they feel like they finally can let go. 

[BooBooLou]

On ‎9‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 9:02 PM, SnoGirl said:

...Merritt Wever. Wow. ...

Be sure and catch her in "Godless". What a performance!

[laurakaye]

I have never seen Merritt Weaver before this show but my goodness, is she wonderful.  Her soft, soothing voice is somewhat mesmerizing.  I was uncertain about episode one but Merritt's interactions with the woman who played Amber (also wonderful) kept me glued to my tv for most of this past weekend.  It's such a difficult topic but the actresses make it almost impossible to look away.

[Lamima]

Merritt is a great actor (I too have only seen her in this and she is good). But her character reminds me of an in law of my in law who is at all the family holiday/graduation/birthday partties. And let me say the slow smooth talking type is NOT fun at a party and actually grates.

[Boofish]

7 hours ago, Whimsy said:

 I remember as a kid being able to hold it together until I would see my mom and then I would start to cry. I think that is a common thing for a lot of people who are able to hold their emotions in check with people they don’t know, but then when they have the unconditional love of their friends and family they feel like they finally can let go. 

If you want further proof of this watch Locked Up Abroad. Those idiots start crying 100% of time as soon as they mention having to call their mother/father and tell them what happened.

[tennisgurl]

Merritt Wever is so awesome, she and Toni Collete are going to be an absolute badass cop dream team taking this piece of shit down. 

The first and second episode was like watching a "How to interview a rape victim, and how not to interview a rape victim" instructional video for police departments and hospitals. Like episode one was the Goofus and this was the Gallant. The main detective was so great with Amber, basically the exact opposite of those two bozos from the first episode. She even double checked a few details with Amber in a calm and understanding way, never acting like she must be a liar just because she didnt get all the details right the first time. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 9/13/2019 at 9:02 PM, SnoGirl said:

I stan Merritt Wever. Wow. Why isn’t she in everything? What a night and day difference from episode one.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

8 hours ago, laurakaye said:

I have never seen Merritt Weaver before this show but my goodness, is she wonderful.  Her soft, soothing voice is somewhat mesmerizing.  I was uncertain about episode one but Merritt's interactions with the woman who played Amber (also wonderful) kept me glued to my tv for most of this past weekend.  It's such a difficult topic but the actresses make it almost impossible to look away.

Yes, yes, yes.... 

[Duke2801]

On 9/13/2019 at 9:02 PM, SnoGirl said:

I stan Merritt Wever. Wow. Why isn’t she in everything? What a night and day difference from episode one.

On 9/14/2019 at 7:15 PM, SnK said:

Merritt Weaver is the best.  She was the best thing about Nurse Jackie and she's going to be my favorite here too.  I love TC too but Merritt Weaver!

All of this! I loved her in Nurse Jackie, but watching her on this show has moved her to “girl crush” status. She just rocks. 

As Duvall, she kicks ass while being positive and supportive to the victim. Those assholes from episode one can learn a thing or twenty from her (and Toni Colette’s character).

[laurakaye]

So now I have to ask...do I need to start watching "Nurse Jackie?"  I am always looking for a good slow-burn, understated, great acting type of show to get hooked on (such as Bloodline, Mindhunter, Broadchurch, etc.)  

Actually, I think the answer is yes because Merritt. 

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

So now I have to ask...do I need to start watching "Nurse Jackie?"  I am always looking for a good slow-burn, understated, great acting type of show to get hooked on (such as Bloodline, Mindhunter, Broadchurch, etc.)  

Actually, I think the answer is yes because Merritt. 

Nurse Jackie was a half hour comedy--darker than many (Jackie was a drug addict nurse). It was where I discovered MW and I *loved* her in it, but it's a very different show.

Here's a video with a few clips of her if you'd like an idea:

[Ms Blue Jay]

Also Merritt was famous to me because of this:

[SG11]

On 9/14/2019 at 8:09 PM, Door County Cherry said:

It was a little jarring to go from everyone doing everything wrong in the first episode to everyone doing everything right in this episode.  I'm not just talking about the cops but even the nurse/doctor was more professional. 

Just watched the first 2 episodes, just fell into this. I’m ex-LEO so I like these shows, usually. While I agree everything done in E1 was right and everything in E2 was wrong, is the underlying premise here another program where men/bad, women/good?

After the first episode, my wife and I were observing that the episode would have been more effective if one of the obviously “bad cops” were female, there would have been some level of balance. When they introduced both cops, I rolled my eyes and thought “white straight males” that means they will be incompetent, insensitive, badbadbad and all the other qualifiers that, indeed, were conveyed. I was thinking a little balance (one female cop) would have made it more believable that the show didn’t have an agenda right out of the gate.

So, it wasn’t long in E2 that I understood... the female cop of course was empathetic, badass, thorough, professional, perfect. Seems there is an agenda. Then the episode ends with another badassfemalesupercop. My wife just rolled her eyes. I hate when I know what happens next.

Is the whole show going to be like this?

[SG11]

PS, reading the comments, was this show advertised as some sort of female cop hero show? If that was the hook that would make more sense here.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, SG11 said:

After the first episode, my wife and I were observing that the episode would have been more effective if one of the obviously “bad cops” were female, there would have been some level of balance. When they introduced both cops, I rolled my eyes and thought “white straight males” that means they will be incompetent, insensitive, badbadbad and all the other qualifiers that, indeed, were conveyed. I was thinking a little balance (one female cop) would have made it more believable that the show didn’t have an agenda right out of the gate.

This is based on a real story where afaik, this is the way the investigations worked out.

But in the same episodes we have the foster mom who went to the police and told them her foster daughter was lying, so no, we're not getting a show that's about how men are bad and woman are good. (Even though yes, the rapist is also male and the victims are all female.) The woman at Marie's building wasn't very helpful by dragging her back to the station and demanding she take back  her take back because it was up to her to protect other women without considering that there was a reason she had to take it back the first time.

To speak of the rest of the show without actual spoilers, afaik know no, the show didn't switch the genders of any real people either to make men look bad or make it more balanced. There's men in the story that are good guys and more coming who are terrible. There's a power imbalance that's central to the story and people on the powerful end of imbalances like that are often insensitive to it.

Quote

PS, reading the comments, was this show advertised as some sort of female cop hero show? If that was the hook that would make more sense here.

It's advertised as based on the thing that happened to this girl that inspired an article and book.

Edited September 21, 2019 by sistermagpie

[SG11]

Sister, thanks for your input.

[SG11]

Hmmmmm... the LA Times has a different take:

Two new series — Netflix’s “Unbelievable,” which arrived last week, and “Emergence,” which premieres Sept. 24 on ABC — are built around female cops and the girls who need them.

The series does in fact appear to be a chick cop show.

Which is fine, but, I think I’m out.

Also, FYI:

Created by Susannah Grant (“Erin Brockovich”), mystery writer Ayelet Waldman and her husband, novelist Michael Chabon, “Unbelievable” follows the lines of “An Unbelievable Story of Rape,” a 2015 article by T. Christian Miller and Ken Armstrong co-published by the Marshall Project and ProPublica. (It was also the basis of “Anatomy of Doubt,” an episode of “This American Life.”) The names have been changed, to protect the screenwriters and whatever dramatic additions and departures they have decided to take, though the detectives have been cast roughly in the image of their originals.

[Helena Dax]

I don't understand why a show with two female cops must be considered a chick cop show. When I watched Lethal Weapon, Bad Boys, Miami Vice, Starsky & Hutch and a long, long etcetera, I never thought I was watching a bloke cop show. 

[driver18]

I just kept thinking SO MUCH during this episode that I desperately want to see Merritt Weaver's character (I know the actress from The Walking Dead--she was amazing in that too, of course) verbally eviscerate in a way I just know that only she can the detectives who "worked" on Marie's case.

(No spoilers, this is from the premise of the show and I'm just hoping she does meet those two assholes, I don't know if she does or not.)

[Cheezwiz]

On 9/20/2019 at 11:20 PM, SG11 said:

The series does in fact appear to be a chick cop show.

Which is fine, but, I think I’m out.

I wouldn't categorize it as a "chick cop show' - it's based on a real-life investigation, and the two main detectives happened to be female. The story is quite compelling, both in the the way it shows how callously people can sometimes be treated when attempting to report, as well as the twists and turns the actual investigation took. You're missing out on some very good television if you're dismissing it based on having two female leads.

[Minivanessa]

3 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

I wouldn't categorize it as a "chick cop show' - it's based on a real-life investigation, and the two main detectives happened to be female. The story is quite compelling, both in the the way it shows how callously people can sometimes be treated when attempting to report, as well as the twists and turns the actual investigation took. You're missing out on some very good television if you're dismissing it based on having two female leads.

Two thumbs up for this^^. 

I find the LA Times quotes above to be almost silly, and quite beside the point of this series. But, hey, if you rely on the LA Times to decide what to watch, then skip this series. 

A series which is, as noted, about a case that really happened, and the two lead detectives really were - women.  Imagine that. It's not a Hollywood twist. It's not like women haven't been working in law enforcement here in the Denver metro area, in increasing numbers, for 50 years and more. At all levels, doing everything that cops do. 

Actually, I noted this little plot twist - later than Episode 2 but I don't remember which ep it was - which indicates this series was crafted as anything but a "chick cop show:"

Spoiler

In the show, the young male intern makes a breakthrough and identifies the suspect's pickup truck license plate number. In the actual case, according to the Pro Publica article, it was a young female crime analyst with the Lakewood PD who dug out the information from suspicious vehicle reports. 

Edited September 22, 2019 by Jeeves

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Jeeves said:

Actually, I noted this little plot twist - later than Episode 2 but I don't remember which ep it was - which indicates this series was crafted as anything but a "chick cop show:"

Wow, so there you go. The show did in one important instance change a female character who was important and integral to solving the case through good detective work to a male.

[MagnaMater]

Yeah, but the two cops are women, which means obviously the show is anti-man, because why on earth would anyone make a show with women actors when men are available?

/s

I don’t understand why a show is unwatchable because the lead(s) are female/male. A good story is a good story. 

Edited September 22, 2019 by MagnaMater

[SG11]

3 hours ago, MagnaMater said:

Yeah, but the two cops are women, which means obviously the show is anti-man, because why on earth would anyone make a show with women actors when men are available?

/s

I don’t understand why a show is unwatchable because the lead(s) are female/male. A good story is a good story. 

It doesn’t. I never said either of those accusations, but why not confuse the point with some convenient untruths?

Like I said at the beginning, if the show showed any semblance of balance from the outset I would not have expected it to be another one of the pandering routine. But the fact is that a show that’s about women, also HAS to come with as many opportunities to bash men as possible. Chick cops are awesome, and everyone knows the male cops are incompetent. No different than every male or husband on TV or commercials are stupid losers. It’s just too bad you cannot promote and praise women without an accompanying insult to men.

The fact the LA Times advertised the show as expected just isn’t a shock. And no, I don’t use the LA Times to pick shows, but feel free to continue those insults.

Obviously I am the only one on this thread with this opinion, so I’ll easily be ridiculed with the usual namecalling and gender bashing. Carry on.

[sistermagpie]

8 minutes ago, SG11 said:

Like I said at the beginning, if the show showed any semblance of balance from the outset I would not have expected it to be another one of the pandering routine. But the fact is that a show that’s about women, also HAS to come with as many opportunities to bash men as possible. Chick cops are awesome, and everyone knows the male cops are incompetent. No different than every male or husband on TV or commercials are stupid losers. It’s just too bad you cannot promote and praise women without an accompanying insult to men.

But that question gets more complicated when we're talking about a show that's sticking very close to the reality of an incident. There are good men in the show, and while the women often wind up more on the right side of the case because they're victims, even in the first episode we see a woman being the one who encourages the cops to be disbelieving. Marie's foster mother has the same attitude as the police do, she's just more of a weasel about it. At least the police stand behind what they're doing--she hides behind them and claims she's not saying she's lying!

And apparently the one time the show does change the gender of a character it's to give a man working for the police the chance to make a major breakthrough. So it seems unfair to accuse the show of having some agenda against men because they didn't change things enough to make men look better when they even did change things for some balance.

I think what you're seeing as anger against men is anger against the way rape and vulnerable people are responded to in general.

[Cheezwiz]

1 hour ago, SG11 said:

Like I said at the beginning, if the show showed any semblance of balance from the outset I would not have expected it to be another one of the pandering routine

How is it "pandering" when it follows a real-life case? The story shows some bad investigative work by cops who happened to be men, but it also shows a number of male investigators who worked tirelessly to try to solve this case - including an FBI agent, as well as a detective in Kansas who was running a very thorough investigation that may or may not have been related.

And if the story seems unbalanced, it's because LIFE is often grossly unbalanced for sexual assault victims. In this day and age it's still a total crapshoot as to how victims will be treated by law enforcement and medical professionals. Gender isn't always the dominant factor.

I'm not commenting further, as it seems you're just here to troll, if people have to keep spelling out the obvious.

[MagnaMater]

1 hour ago, SG11 said:

It doesn’t. I never said either of those accusations, but why not confuse the point with some convenient untruths?

Like I said at the beginning, if the show showed any semblance of balance from the outset I would not have expected it to be another one of the pandering routine. But the fact is that a show that’s about women, also HAS to come with as many opportunities to bash men as possible. Chick cops are awesome, and everyone knows the male cops are incompetent. No different than every male or husband on TV or commercials are stupid losers. It’s just too bad you cannot promote and praise women without an accompanying insult to men.

The fact the LA Times advertised the show as expected just isn’t a shock. And no, I don’t use the LA Times to pick shows, but feel free to continue those insults.

Obviously I am the only one on this thread with this opinion, so I’ll easily be ridiculed with the usual namecalling and gender bashing. Carry on.

You said you never said that if a show starred women, it had to be anti-man. Then in the next paragraph, you say exactly that.

“But the fact is that a show that’s about women, also HAS to come with as many opportunities to bash men as possible. Chick cops are awesome, and everyone knows the male cops are incompetent. No different than every male or husband on TV or commercials are stupid losers. It’s just too bad you cannot promote and praise women without an accompanying insult to men.”

The show featured two male cops who were in the wrong, as happened in the real-life story this show is based on.  While the two main cops who solved the case were women, the show was also full of men who were instrumental to not only solving the case, but also to helping the girl whose case was botched in the beginning. 

[Door County Cherry]

Please move on from the discussion whether having two female lead cops has a deeper meaning or not and focus on what takes place in this episide, please.

[paramitch]

Oh, God, I'm so glad I kept going. Episode 1 was so brutal to watch, and hit me personally on many levels. I almost checked out, just because ouch.

I'm so glad I didn't. This episode revealed the larger arc and then we have Wever, who is one of my favorite actresses on the planet, being so caring of the victim, so considerate and showing us how it should have been done. I also want to compliment Danielle Macdonald, who was terrific as Amber -- so often we don't see women of size being given this kind of complex role, and she was superb and so moving. 
 

On 9/13/2019 at 6:02 PM, SnoGirl said:

I stan Merritt Wever. Wow. Why isn’t she in everything? What a night and day difference from episode one.

I love her so much. Ever since NURSE JACKIE. She's amazing. I literally stopped watching TWD when she left, just out of sheer outrage (and character/loss fatigue, that's another post).

On 9/15/2019 at 9:06 PM, Cheezwiz said:

Same. I wasn't sure if I would be able to continue, but I'm glad I did. So many great actresses in this show - the actress who plays Amber is Danielle Madonald, who has appeared in all kinds of things lately and is wonderful. I completely understood why she finally became emotional when she had to call her friend. I think once you tell someone you know, as opposed to law enforcement or medical officials, it actually becomes real.

And I had no clue Toni Colette was also in this. So, now we have two bad-ass female detectives.

So with you on this. All the actresses are amazing.

On 9/16/2019 at 12:29 PM, laurakaye said:

I have never seen Merritt Weaver before this show but my goodness, is she wonderful.  Her soft, soothing voice is somewhat mesmerizing.  I was uncertain about episode one but Merritt's interactions with the woman who played Amber (also wonderful) kept me glued to my tv for most of this past weekend.  It's such a difficult topic but the actresses make it almost impossible to look away.

I adore Merritt. And her voice here and work and sympathy for the victim broke me.

On 9/16/2019 at 7:06 PM, tennisgurl said:

The first and second episode was like watching a "How to interview a rape victim, and how not to interview a rape victim" instructional video for police departments and hospitals. Like episode one was the Goofus and this was the Gallant. The main detective was so great with Amber, basically the exact opposite of those two bozos from the first episode. She even double checked a few details with Amber in a calm and understanding way, never acting like she must be a liar just because she didnt get all the details right the first time. 

I love this comment; it's so true and, I hope, deliberate by the filmmakers. I was so upset by E1 but Ioved E2, so I'm hanging in there. And MW and TC are everything.

On 9/17/2019 at 11:10 AM, laurakaye said:

So now I have to ask...do I need to start watching "Nurse Jackie?"  I am always looking for a good slow-burn, understated, great acting type of show to get hooked on (such as Bloodline, Mindhunter, Broadchurch, etc.)  

Actually, I think the answer is yes because Merritt. 

Agghgh. "Nurse Jackie" is a beautiful gorgeous moving upsetting dark show. It is dark. It is profoundly sad. If you're willing to proceed along those lines, it is worth it. As is (especially) Wever's work as Jackie's #1 nurse). 

On 9/20/2019 at 11:20 PM, SG11 said:

The series does in fact appear to be a chick cop show.

Which is fine, but, I think I’m out.

How... is it a "chick cop show?" And what does that have to do with its quality? I'm stymied. It is a show about crime and rape that certainly includes female detectives. It is superbly produced. Two female protagonists do not instantly mean "I should skip that." And that upsets me as an element for approval on so many levels.

On 9/21/2019 at 5:33 PM, Helena Dax said:

I don't understand why a show with two female cops must be considered a chick cop show. When I watched Lethal Weapon, Bad Boys, Miami Vice, Starsky & Hutch and a long, long etcetera, I never thought I was watching a bloke cop show. 

THIS. THIS. THIS.

On 9/22/2019 at 6:03 AM, Jeeves said:

A series which is, as noted, about a case that really happened, and the two lead detectives really were - women.  Imagine that. It's not a Hollywood twist. It's not like women haven't been working in law enforcement here in the Denver metro area, in increasing numbers, for 50 years and more. At all levels, doing everything that cops do.

Gender-identifying this show because of the focus and gender of the detectives grosses me out. Just... no.

On 9/22/2019 at 11:16 AM, SG11 said:

Like I said at the beginning, if the show showed any semblance of balance from the outset I would not have expected it to be another one of the pandering routine. But the fact is that a show that’s about women, also HAS to come with as many opportunities to bash men as possible. Chick cops are awesome, and everyone knows the male cops are incompetent. No different than every male or husband on TV or commercials are stupid losers. It’s just too bad you cannot promote and praise women without an accompanying insult to men.

Huh? The show has plenty of characters on both sides -- women as victims, as potential villains, as horribly complicit with rape-victim culture, as competent investigators. And with plenty of men as competent investigators, technicians, and supporters.

So, WTF? This one dares to ape reality and to follow what came after. Sorry that two female lead cops scared you off an actual drama. I can't even imagine your watchlist after your post, but it makes me profoundly sad.

On 9/22/2019 at 11:35 AM, sistermagpie said:

But that question gets more complicated when we're talking about a show that's sticking very close to the reality of an incident. There are good men in the show, and while the women often wind up more on the right side of the case because they're victims, even in the first episode we see a woman being the one who encourages the cops to be disbelieving. Marie's foster mother has the same attitude as the police do, she's just more of a weasel about it. At least the police stand behind what they're doing--she hides behind them and claims she's not saying she's lying!

I think what you're seeing as anger against men is anger against the way rape and vulnerable people are responded to in general.

Beautifully put. This. Let us fricking like this show without going, "But it's two female leads! What does it mean?!"

[auntiemel]

I know it's a small moment in this episode, but I was so struck when Marie was struggling to control her trembling hands and lips as she asked the random passerby, "Would you like to try a sample from our new electric Hibachi?" and the woman just pleasantly shook her head and walked on by.

It just made me realize...you truly have no idea what strangers are going through when you have small interactions with them. I want to remember that moment in the future. i hope it inspires me to give people grace.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

After seeing the way Marie was treated in the previous episode, it was a relief to see Merritt Wever treat Amber so gently and respectfully.

Although I know this episode was all about contrasting Marie vs. Amber and the cops in the different precincts, one thing I noticed that Amber and Marie had in common was something that is often seen in victims, especially women - repeatedly telling people that they're fine, they're okay, and trying not to make a fuss over what happened to them. I took a fitness teacher training several years ago and one of the things we were taught is that if someone gets injured, 99% of the time they will say they're okay and decline any assistance. Sometimes you have to be persistent in order for them to allow you to get them even a drink of water. They don't want to be a bother or put anyone out so they will often apologize even though they're the ones who have been injured.

I have loved Merritt since her days on Nurse Jackie so I'm always happy to see her again. I only know Danielle Macdonald from Dumplin' but she was great in that so I am loving the cast.

Heh, I don't know if the guy that Toni Collette saw creeping around in the dark is actually a bad guy (it seems too early in the season for them to catch the perpetrator) but as a night owl, I was like hey, maybe it's just someone taking a stroll in the dark! Maybe he just likes the night air! (I know that probably isn't the case but it reminded me of that line in The Princess Bride: "Probably some local fisherman out for a pleasure cruise at night through eel-infested waters.").

[misschung]

On 11/13/2019 at 4:18 AM, auntiemel said:

I know it's a small moment in this episode, but I was so struck when Marie was struggling to control her trembling hands and lips as she asked the random passerby, "Would you like to try a sample from our new electric Hibachi?" and the woman just pleasantly shook her head and walked on by.

It just made me realize...you truly have no idea what strangers are going through when you have small interactions with them. I want to remember that moment in the future. i hope it inspires me to give people grace.

That is absolutely the one moment that stuck with me throughout the entire series.