S05.E02: Episode 2

[Gemini Gipsy]

2 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

I can't remember where the Joanie character lives, but they clearly showed lots of different terrain on the trip to Montauk, so it must be pretty far away. 

Joanie and her family live in Texas . So yes, quite far. 

[izabella]

50 minutes ago, Gemini Gipsy said:

So just so I have this right, it seems there are some serious issues with the coastlines in the future? If anyone is educated on the matter and terminology I happily accept a little learnin'.

Flooding was mentioned several times, and it appears that resources are depleted. Joanie seemed to throw shade at her boss for having a baby of her own instead of adopting the kids that are already available and sucking up oxygen. 

I don't think they went into any details, but what is likely happening is that the sea levels are rising.  So that beach that everyone was frolicking upon when the series first started, is likely under water now, all along the coast line.   I would guess the Cole and Alison's house, which may have been, say, 100 feet from shore now would be 10 feet from shore, for example.  That also means the water is flooding streets and homes.  This is already happening in Miami and they have been struggling to figure out what to do.  Moving away doesn't seem to be an option for Miami and Miami Beach people, though.  Not yet anyway.  In the show future world, I would expect Miami to be just as abandoned as Montauk.

Climate change also means the seas are getting warmer, which is likely causing more hurricanes and storms, too.  So that means even more flooding and devastation.  At some point, people have to stop rebuilding because it becomes a constant rebuild, year after year.  No one has that kind of money.

What is unrealistic about this is New York being unaffected.  Any city near the coast would have massive problems.

[weaver]

I wonder if Joanie ever reconnected with Noah.  He did think he was her father for some time.   Did Cole ever talk about this?  

And I wonder if Trevor will show up this year.  He and Noah had developed quite a bond.   Noah used his connections (implausibly) to get Trevor into Princeton.  

Although Noah is a jerk, he did go to jail for Helen.  Helen seemed to have forgotten that in her long diatribe against Noah.  That was a choice Noah made, Helen.  

I don’t want Treem to get so enmeshed in climate change discussions, etc, that she forgets 4 seasons of plot and character and POV’s on which I’d like more resolution.  

[LuvMyShows]

3 hours ago, Gemini Gipsy said:

Plus I can't seem to take the ex-husband seriously, I still see him as the campy detective from Grimm. 

Well I take very seriously how his chest/arms/shoulders looked in that shirt he was wearing, when he would lean forward to talk to Janelle!

[LuvMyShows]

Did anyone else think that they CGI'd Vik's neck in that video to make it look smaller in comparison to his head, so he would look more sickly?  It just looked odd to me.

14 minutes ago, weaver said:

And I wonder if Trevor will show up this year.  He and Noah had developed quite a bond.   Noah used his connections (implausibly) to get Trevor into Princeton.  

IIRC, Trevor was at the memorial service and turned down Noah's offer to drive them (to the reception?).

On 9/1/2019 at 10:44 PM, DakotaLavender said:

Helen and the basketball segment was unnecessary. 

And no way did the Helen character play basketball in school (which I took to mean more than played in gym class), with how she dribbled and shot the ball.

[ShortyMac]

1 hour ago, weaver said:

And I wonder if Trevor will show up this year.  He and Noah had developed quite a bond.   Noah used his connections (implausibly) to get Trevor into Princeton.  

You mean Anton, Janelle's son? Trevor is Noah's son.

They showed Anton on FaceTime with his mom when he was on campus at Princeton.

[weaver]

2 minutes ago, ShortyMac said:

You mean Anton, Janelle's son? Trevor is Noah's son.

They showed Anton on FaceTime with his mom when he was on campus at Princeton.

Yes, I meant Anton.   Sorry.  See what I mean, too many loose ends.  No time to wander into the dystopian future too much.   

[LuvMyShows]

On 9/2/2019 at 5:54 AM, ScoobieDoobs said:

Anyone else as distracted as I am by Sasha's badly colored hair?  WTF?  A-list actors (which he is supposed to be) have believably dyed hair (well, sorta).  Man, he has zero chemistry with Helen, he looks nearly 2 feet taller than her & he looks kinda oldish in closeups.  So far, this seems like a bad casting choice.  But let's see . . .

From the first moment he was at the table with Noah, I have had trouble figuring out what age the character is supposed to be, but I have concluded that he is supposed to be 'old' because he is playing Noah in the film and he is interested in Helen.  Also, he looked like he had a giant saggy diaper between his legs when he was wearing those absurd pants at his house when Helen came over.  And please do not tell me that the writers thought it would be sexy for that actor to take his overshirt off during their basketball game and reveal his manly undershirt!

[Toodleoo]

On 9/2/2019 at 2:50 PM, TexasGal said:

I agree with this - I would think they would continue to want it to appear the African-American woman was in charge while secretly the douchey white dude is running everything.  Pretty confusing.  

My read on it is that they are trying to get Janelle to do just what her ex-husband told her to do: quit. That way they won’t have the social stink of firing a well-educated, well-qualified African American woman on their hands. I saw a  boss do this very thing at my job; he knew just up and firing a qualified black woman in a very caucasian, STEM-oriented workplace in the south was not a good look so he made her so miserable that she quit. That was twenty years ago but watching this part of Janelle’s storyline immediately took me back a couple of decades...a 15% pay cut and hiding you behind the scenes while some goon takes all the credit is 100% designed to make you rip the contract in two and get all the credit for that.

The super train that just happens to run by Montauk? Hahahhahahhaha ok.

It felt like they were modeling a bit of Sasha Mann’s alleged philanthropy after Keanu Reeves’ acts of awesomeness (particularly bit with gifting movie crews with motorcycles upon wrapping a movie).   I’ma just stick my fingers in my ears and continue to think Keanu is not filled with Sashadoucheness.

[Drumpf1737]

On 9/2/2019 at 5:20 PM, Razzberry said:

California is probably the most diverse place in the US if not the planet.  Why is it written like Alabama 1965?

Diversity doesn't automatically mean harmony.

I just hate Helen and Noah's children. I've never seen such whiny, entitled brats.

Janelle's bosses did the co-principal thing in the hopes she'd quit. If they fire her she potentially has a lawsuit so better to force her out--happens all the time. 

I think seeing events unfold from a perspective that isn't Noah's or Helen's is really interesting because it gives us a different view of them. 

I just want someone, not named Noah or Whitney, to tell Helen to get over herself.

[weaver]

12 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

From the first moment he was at the table with Noah, I have had trouble figuring out what age the character is supposed to be, but I have concluded that he is supposed to be 'old' because he is playing Noah in the film and he is interested in Helen.  Also, he looked like he had a giant saggy diaper between his legs when he was wearing those absurd pants at his house when Helen came over.  And please do not tell me that the writers thought it would be sexy for that actor to take his overshirt off during their basketball game and reveal his manly undershirt!

When I first saw him at the table, I thought he was the producer who had purchased the rights to Descent.  I never thought he was this famous action hero actor.   Subsequent scenes have only confirmed my first impression.   If I were Dominic West, who for all the faults of the Noah character, is a very handsome man, I'd be very insulted.  I'm not even mentioning the fact that he has no charm or spark or charisma.  

[Tikichick]

I thought Joanie's scene in the restroom was in her master bath and she was desperately trying to keep her husband from hearing any tea the commode was about to spill.  When we saw her in the office with her very pregnant boss/coworker?  I was confident where the major threadline of Joanie's storyline is leading.

[MaggieG]

Honestly, I'm really into Joanie's story and I want to see more. I want to see more of what the future (or the writers future) looks like. What happened to Cole? And Luisa? Did she stay close to Luisa after her and Cole split up? Did she remain close with the rest of the Lockharts? Will she run into Oscar while she's in Montauk? I'm curious. It's probably because she is a new character and I'm pretty over Noah and Helen at this point. 

I know this was Janelle's POV but why the heck is Noah introducing his kids to his girlfriend for the very first time at their stepfather's funeral?? They couldn't have met her at any other time? 

[weaver]

1 hour ago, MaggieG said:

Honestly, I'm really into Joanie's story and I want to see more. I want to see more of what the future (or the writers future) looks like. What happened to Cole? And Luisa? Did she stay close to Luisa after her and Cole split up? Did she remain close with the rest of the Lockharts? Will she run into Oscar while she's in Montauk? I'm curious. It's probably because she is a new character and I'm pretty over Noah and Helen at this point. 

I know this was Janelle's POV but why the heck is Noah introducing his kids to his girlfriend for the very first time at their stepfather's funeral?? They couldn't have met her at any other time? 

I'm curious if she knows Noah was her "father" for a certain period of her life.  I'm sure Joanie and Noah will meet.  (Course we will have to waste time on the Sierra/baby plot and the Whitney wedding plot first I imagine).   

Edited September 4, 2019 by weaver

[AngelaHunter]

19 hours ago, Drumpf1737 said:

I just hate Helen and Noah's children. I've never seen such whiny, entitled brats.

Honestly, they are, in every way,  the most unappealing children I have ever seen.

12 hours ago, weaver said:

When I first saw him at the table, I thought he was the producer who had purchased the rights to Descent.  I never thought he was this famous action hero actor.   Subsequent scenes have only confirmed my first impression.   If I were Dominic West, who for all the faults of the Noah character, is a very handsome man, I'd be very insulted.  I'm not even mentioning the fact that he has no charm or spark or charisma.

 

These are all exactly the thoughts I had, which made wonder why those young slutty girls were so hot for him (although it was funny that Noah thought they wanted him). This guy is a gawky beanpole who, up close, looks way older than Noah and has zero sex appeal, to me anyway. Also, that room being used for the scene with "Helen" and "Noah" looked like a really cheap rental and nothing like Helen's home. Maybe this movie is being made on a shoestring budget. The actors were horrible and the scene had all the passion and outrage you might expect if the Helen character was chastising the Noah character for leaving the toilet seat up. 

[chick binewski]

On 9/1/2019 at 9:19 AM, weaver said:

Only watched part one, Janelle.   Does someone remember last year's story?  I thought Anton's father was a rather militant type who fought the system and wanted Anton to go to a state school to escape Princeton's patriarchy.   Was that a different guy from this lawyer who seems to know how to beat the system?  Is he not Anton's father?  

On 9/2/2019 at 9:40 AM, Blakeston said:

Pretty much everything that ever happens to her is specifically tied to her blackness. Her marriage to her ex was a constant struggle between their differing views on race - ie, she believes in working within society so that she'll be rewarded with a place at the table, and he wants to flip the table over.

On 9/3/2019 at 5:41 AM, ScoobieDoobs said:

But Carl was absolutely right to point out this offer sucked & was a no-win for her & she should walk away from it.  His suggestion for her to run for a superintendent position was excellent.  Here's the thing tho.  If she had trouble relating to the students, can she tone down her somewhat harsh & demanding demeanor & get herself elected -- or was her harsh demeanor only a front for the students?

I do not know why I do not like Sanaa Latahn in this role so I'm chalking it up to her being this season's Vik/Lucia/Prof Eau So Franch. She's filling Helen's spot. Also, I liked the actor who played Anton so much - and despite the geography/timeline making no sense - loved the road trip with Cole & Noah. I just never had much of an interest in Janelle. 

Anton's dad was seen through Noah's eyes last season but yes - he did not appear to be the same character this episode. I did appreciate the way they tried to show Janelle's experience with racism in a single day, but what I liked more was her visible expectations from a man who had disappointed her so deeply in the past. I love how this show goes back to the intimate ties and wanting to be seen and understood in a particular way.

I understand Treem has a very strong vision for this show (this is not evident to me from viewing, but rather what the actors have to say), and it must have been challenging with a lead actress leaving. But even though I never thought Alison would get out of this alive I still hate that they've chosen apocalyptic Joanie as the wrap-up for this. Alison was difficult to watch but Ruth Wilson was terrific; it's tough to become interested in a new morose character in her place. I'd rather watch Margaret & Bruce segments with Kathleen Chalfant swanning around NY having affairs whist John Doman yells at everyone in his way.

[stormy weather]

On 9/2/2019 at 3:40 PM, Blakeston said:

I liked the writing of Janelle's storyline a lot, and I love Sanaa Lathan. That said, I find it odd how her character is almost 100% defined by her race.

Pretty much everything that ever happens to her is specifically tied to her blackness.

(...)

But can't she have a hobby or something? It's like the writers can't conceive that black people sometimes think about things other than being black.

I couldn't agree more. I said last week that Janelle was my favorite character and she still is, but honestly this episode was like "white writers feel the need to touch on topic of racism so they introduce token black character who has zero meaning plot-wise (it also looks like she and Noah broke up so I'm curious to see how they're going to keep her in the show if she has no more ties with any of the main characters) just so they can get the chance to show us how bad things are for black people for a hot minute before carrying on with the rest of the gang". I really hate it when writers do that to black characters and I personally think this kind of attitude is just another, maybe more subtle, side of the same racism they're trying so hard to denounce. 

The rest of the show bordered between the repetitive (Solloway kids are still insufferable spoiled little brats, Helen is still dazed and confused, Noah is still a jerk) and the utterly far-fetched (Helen being hit on by mega Hollywood star who, as I'm sure it happens IRL, chats up random strangers at the catering table, bullet trains travelling directly to derelict, abandoned towns etc, etc). The only believable scene of the episode for me was Helen falling asleep at Trevor's musical. But then again, I'm not exactly a fan of teenage productions in general so that's probably why I empathized so much. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

Have high schools changed so much from when I was a kid that Trevor’s bf can casually put his arm around him & practically make out with him & nobody cares?  Or is it that LA is a world unto itself?  Sorry, but this rang annoyingly false & really kinda cloying.

It’s like the writers this season are trying to make statements on issues that are completely off the mark from what this show is about.  Did they just throw shit against the wall in the writers’ room — cuz that’s what it’s feeling like.  

Did the writers go — Hey, let’s make Trevor a teen gay who’s into theater & let’s give Noah a black gf to show how wrong we think racism is.  Fine issues to explore, but totally off the track of the show.

I’ll give Joanie’s story a chance to play out.  But so far, it’s getting too bogged down by Joanie’s really annoying sad-sack routine & the futuristic shit.

[cardigirl]

14 hours ago, weaver said:

When I first saw him at the table, I thought he was the producer who had purchased the rights to Descent.  I never thought he was this famous action hero actor.   Subsequent scenes have only confirmed my first impression.   If I were Dominic West, who for all the faults of the Noah character, is a very handsome man, I'd be very insulted.  I'm not even mentioning the fact that he has no charm or spark or charisma.  

I think he’s okay looking. His character is supposed to be someone “big” like Colin Firth (58) or Daniel Craig (51). I don’t find the actor off-putting, but I’m worried where his story might be going. 

[HaaCHOO]

Wow!  Both Helen and Alison...two fabulously beautiful and overwhelmingly desirable women that no man can resist!  Oddly, both actresses have always bothered me.  They have the same pouty top lip.  I try to skip whatever they're in.  How did I let myself be sucked into this?

14 hours ago, weaver said:

I'm curious if she knows Noah was her "father" for a certain period of her life.  I'm sure Joanie and Noah will meet.

Suppose they'll "fall in love" before either realizes their history?

[chick binewski]

13 hours ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

It’s like the writers this season are trying to make statements on issues that are completely off the mark from what this show is about.  Did they just throw shit against the wall in the writers’ room — cuz that’s what it’s feeling like.  

Did the writers go — Hey, let’s make Trevor a teen gay who’s into theater & let’s give Noah a black gf to show how wrong we think racism is.  Fine issues to explore, but totally off the track of the show.

I think they've attempted this in past seasons and it has felt a bit clunky and ill-fitting. Luisa & immigration was in my opinion really poorly done (I did like Vik and his first-generation sense of honor and responsibility - a nice, subtle contrast to Helen's relationship to her own parents). That's why I was surprised how much I liked how they handled Janelle's terrible, no good day. And that they actually tied it back into a relationship that ended bc of infidelity,.

8 hours ago, HaaCHOO said:

Wow!  Both Helen and Alison...two fabulously beautiful and overwhelmingly desirable women that no man can resist!  Oddly, both actresses have always bothered me.  They have the same pouty top lip.  I try to skip whatever they're in.  How did I let myself be sucked into this?

Granted, I do like both actresses. But I also think their similar appearance made it clear Noah basically traded Helen in for a younger model, no matter how many books he wants to write about Alison's mysterious qualities that he never really got to know. 

[AngelaHunter]

10 hours ago, HaaCHOO said:

Wow!  Both Helen and Alison...two fabulously beautiful and overwhelmingly desirable women that no man can resist! 

I may have said this before, so forgive if it's a repetition. I think Alison's appeal - for a certain kind of man - was her air of vulnerable victimhood. As for Helen, I just don't know why so many are drawn to such an unpleasant sourpuss.  On a trivial note: I wish Helen would do something with her hair. It's not flattering on a mature woman.

10 hours ago, HaaCHOO said:

Suppose they'll "fall in love" before either realizes their history?

Maybe, but Noah will be pushing 80 or so.  But actually, I think having them meet somehow and slowly come to find out their identities might be interesting.

[HaaCHOO]

2 hours ago, chick binewski said:

Granted, I do like both actresses. But I also think their similar appearance made it clear Noah basically traded Helen in for a younger model, no matter how many books he wants to write about Alison's mysterious qualities that he never really got to know. 

Same mouth?

[hoodooznoodooz]

On 9/1/2019 at 3:34 AM, DakotaLavender said:

Oh, how I love this show. I thought it was a bit draggy with some unnecessary drawn out fillers, but I just loved the end with Joanie. I would love to binge watch this season. Why can't Showtime just stick up all of the episodes like Netflix and Amazon do with their series? 

Oh by the way I thought that scene that the actors (playing Noah and Helen) were filming was some pretty awful acting. Was that deliberate? 

Yeah. The acting was ridiculously bad.

[endure]

On 9/3/2019 at 7:42 AM, AngelaHunter said:

I wasn't going to comment on this episode because I didn't know where to start, so thanks for doing it for me in such a succinct way and helping me order my thoughts. 

Janelle (about whom I do not care just as I did not care about French woman and her husband) is miserable all the time because everyone, including Helen, is so racist.

Helen (I do not care about crane-like actor guy who is boring and silly with his over-the-top California cliched, touchy-feely schtick) is miserable all the time. I know Vik just died, but she was miserable before then. I am mildly intrigued by her seeming narcolepsy, but I'm thinking it just might be a delayed reaction.  "I  don't know why I'm here," she says. I wondered the same thing.

Joanie, 30 years in the future, seems to be miserable all the time. Do not care about her argumentative talking potty. This and personal fruit-picking drones is someone's vision of the future? And I thought when her collegue offered her a "cricket", that it was something like "Animal Crackers", you know  - not really animals, and not really crickets.  Oh, well.

So, the only person I liked was Whitney, who seems to have grown up enough to have empathy for her mother. If she's the person I liked best, something is wrong with this show or with me.

The show HAS turned into something else. In Montauk it was real and messy and human and indentifiable. Now it's "As the World Turns for the Rich and Famous."

TWO puking scenes in one episode. I hate puking scenes.

Speaking of Montauk, would that sleek, huge, futuristic train really have a stop in what appears to be a decayed ghost town?

Oh, and btw: In Vik's farewell vid to Helen, he said, "You always took care of everyone." I had to wonder what the hell he meant as I tried to recall a caring Helen. Driving drunk with the kids in the car? Driving drunk with Noah, hitting someone and letting him take the fall? Screwing Vik in the basement while her kids were upstairs? 

Thank you for reminding of so many good reasons why I’ve never cared for any of the people on this show, they’re basically all self centred and detached.

[Aqua]

On 9/1/2019 at 7:00 PM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Was that toilet at Joanie's work? That makes it even worse.

 

I think it was at her home. If she was at work, she wouldn't have been able to override it.

[Aqua]

On 9/1/2019 at 11:58 PM, Milburn Stone said:

 And she was Noah's wife, and Sasha's narcissism makes him want to have what Noah had.

This I don't get, because from what I saw Sasha is way more at the top of his career (insane house, chauffeur) than Noah has ever been. In Celebrity World, he's playing under his rank.

[Aqua]

On 9/3/2019 at 1:09 PM, Gemini Gipsy said:

We all know this is the last season, that being said, why would we now need Janelle's POV? It just seems too little too late and instead of "wrapping" things up, they're throwing more "new" material at us. Plus I can't seem to take the ex-husband seriously, I still see him as the campy detective from Grimm. 

They gave the French lady a POV and she was never seen again.

I'm not a fan of the Janelle/Carl/Anton storyline. It feels Forced Woke to me.

[Aqua]

On 9/4/2019 at 11:19 AM, MaggieG said:

Honestly, I'm really into Joanie's story and I want to see more. I want to see more of what the future (or the writers future) looks like. What happened to Cole? And Luisa? Did she stay close to Luisa after her and Cole split up?

I find it odd there was so much fanfare about Ruth Wilson leaving but nothing about the Cole character disappearing. Was this a surprise?

[Milburn Stone]

8 hours ago, Aqua said:

This I don't get, because from what I saw Sasha is way more at the top of his career (insane house, chauffeur) than Noah has ever been. In Celebrity World, he's playing under his rank.

It's not about rank. Sasha wants everything desirable that anyone else has or has had.